tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-900671458188709604.post3483225190052781355..comments2024-03-07T00:40:45.585-08:00Comments on Trout Clan Campfire: POKING THE HORNETS NESTmurph & freeacrehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10278932450332333778noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-900671458188709604.post-58785781607170268362008-11-09T15:15:00.000-08:002008-11-09T15:15:00.000-08:00Oops, sorry. 20 Years After. You can get it off of...Oops, sorry. 20 Years After. You can get it off of netflix. It's not the best movie, but it's better than a lot of the genre.RAShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16264114986793504233noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-900671458188709604.post-91277434316163539772008-11-09T10:56:00.000-08:002008-11-09T10:56:00.000-08:00Well, I just had a good time. After 28 years, I di...Well, I just had a good time. After 28 years, I did not renew my AAA membership. Instead, I sent them a note that told them, "I am not renewing my AAA Membership this year because of the BAILOUT. We have already sent you insurance companies more than we can afford and now you want more. Because of the bailout, soon I will not be able to drive anywhere, anyway. Enjoy the collapse."<BR/><BR/>... ahhhh, that felt good.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-900671458188709604.post-5578595976872967992008-11-09T07:15:00.000-08:002008-11-09T07:15:00.000-08:00ras,So what was the name of it?ras,<BR/><BR/>So what was the name of it?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-900671458188709604.post-78878337224439636212008-11-09T05:41:00.000-08:002008-11-09T05:41:00.000-08:00I watched a post-apocalyptic movie the other night...I watched a post-apocalyptic movie the other night that both made me laugh and creeped me out. It was slightly better than the usual run of PA movies, so it wasn't the quality of the movie itself that did it. <BR/>No, what did it was that this particular movie was set in and filmed in the area around where I live. Every scene of the movie had locations and places I could recognize. On the one hand it was neat; one of my friends was in it and that was pretty cool. I also got a good laugh out of some of the scenes and such. <BR/><BR/>On the other hand, I got seriously creeped out because they did a real good job of making everything look abandoned and PA and this wasn't just some sound stage in Hollywood; these were locations I know very, very well. Looking at those places in the movie and thinking that it might one day be that way was a serious creep-out.RAShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16264114986793504233noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-900671458188709604.post-47616651410169766232008-11-07T23:54:00.000-08:002008-11-07T23:54:00.000-08:00Sorry Murph, but the Pogue Carburetor don't work! ...Sorry Murph, but the Pogue Carburetor don't work! I tried it! <BR/><BR/>(1) It just cannot function on the gasoline made today which is refined using the "catalytic cracker" method started in the thirties.<BR/><BR/>(2) It violates the first law of thermodynamics,which has been accepted science, dating way back to 1830. The law is written as follows: U = q + w<BR/><BR/>In other words, if you have chemical energy, in an engine (U), it must equal heat (q), plus work (w). Let's say you have a gallon of fuel which has 100,000 BTUs (British Thermal Units). You burn that fuel in an engine operating at 30% efficiency, your going to get 30,000 BTUs of work, and create 70,000 BTUs of heat!<BR/><BR/>Basically, anything you put into the combustion chamber of an internal combustion engine as fuel can do only one of two things, after being ignited:<BR/><BR/>(1) It either produces work, by moving the piston or turbine, (w)<BR/>(2) it produces heat, out the exhaust.<BR/><BR/>The above formula allowed me to figure out how much fuel the horrifically souped up drag race cars I used to build would require on their trips down the strip, how much laughing gas I needed to blow under the carburetor(s) to achieve the power required to win, and whether I would have to install forged pistons, molly rings, stainless steel headers, and titanium valves to make the thing hold together! <BR/><BR/>These thing were very important to me at that point in my life, because hell hath no fury like a customer who has paid $7,000 to $10,000 for a custom racing engine, which can now fit loosely in a 10 gallon bucket!<BR/><BR/>In fact, the closest anybody ever got to making anything close to a Pogue carburetor work was Smokey Yunick, and his Pontiac Fierro with the 'Adiabatic' engine which used a low pressure turbocharger in the intake manifold to heat the fuel. The car did manage to get 50 miles to the gallon in 1983, and produced over 100 horsepower. <BR/><BR/>It also produced so much heat, that only mil.spec. jet oil would stay in it, and at $98.00 American a quart, that was a sore point indeed!<BR/><BR/>It also had an alarming tendency to catch fire if driven too long, which made it unpopular!<BR/><BR/>The car still exist, and is owned by a collector, who has all the notes Smokey wrote on it. It was recently on Spike Network's "Power Block" where they hooked it up to the Dynomometer to measure the horsepower, and it promptly caught fire...again!<BR/><BR/>Everybody that knew Smokey knew he was a genius, but we also knew he was the crookedest racer in the pits! One day he broke a record at Daytona, and was being torn down for a tech inspection. the tech crew had the fuel cell, fuel lines, and fuel pumps out of the car.<BR/><BR/>The Head Inspector said, "Smokey, you've got fifteen violations!"<BR/><BR/>Smokey said "Better make that sixteen!" and with the whole fuel delivery system lying on the ground, he started the car up and drove away!<BR/><BR/>The crotchety old fucker died back in 2001, and we damn sure miss him!stoney13https://www.blogger.com/profile/04516695387985047832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-900671458188709604.post-32436322502876959962008-11-07T04:41:00.000-08:002008-11-07T04:41:00.000-08:00here's the blurb on the coast interview. aired on...here's the blurb on the coast interview. aired on many radio stations... http://www.coasttocoastam.com/<BR/>shows/2008/11/08.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-900671458188709604.post-37135929777622557072008-11-07T04:38:00.000-08:002008-11-07T04:38:00.000-08:00the free in free energy or free anything is rhetor...the free in free energy or free anything is rhetorical... everything's a trade off at best.<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>the druid is the featured guest on coast sat nite. i'm w/TS on him... we are all reflections of our imprints.<BR/><BR/><BR/>TS said... I hope we leave it (oil)just where it is.<BR/> <BR/>if we can effectively argue there is some purpose to existance then, on the highest level, one of the challenges we face in the process of true evolution just might be the learning of lessons. we can argue that U throws these at us at random or we can argue that we create our own reality. or to put it another way, there's some method to the madness we face. obviously, whatever lessons there are to learn about the use of fossil fuels as our energy source, has been ignored for the most part. gimme, gimme, gimme. drill, drill, drill!!! despite the fact that obama won, sentiment for more, more more, cheap, cheap, cheap is pushing into the 70th percentile. what's that tell us? if i take something from you just because i can does that justify it? does that excuse accountability?<BR/><BR/><BR/>and then he said... I do sense that we are looking at something here that is close to the old concept of ‘ether’<BR/> <BR/>i'm as ingnorant as most but from what i'm reading thats probably close... http://theunseenroleofdenial.<BR/>blogspot.com/2008/01/field.html<BR/><BR/>in the meantime black light power is moving along. y'all have heard me talk about BLP before. here's the latest news...<BR/><BR/>http://blacklightpower.com/Press%20Releases/BlacklightPressRelease102008.doc<BR/><BR/>Full Report from Rowan University:<BR/><BR/>http://blacklightpower.com/pdf/<BR/>BLPIndependentReport.pdf<BR/><BR/>watch it work at rowan university.<BR/>200X the energy required to remove H from H2O.... <BR/><BR/>http://www.blacklightpower.com/<BR/>Documentary%20Video/<BR/>blacklight_experiment_video_v2.wmv<BR/><BR/>...pAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-900671458188709604.post-59483444233852936062008-11-06T19:43:00.000-08:002008-11-06T19:43:00.000-08:00P;That was truly inspired! Ha, ha, ha!-rpP;<BR/><BR/>That was truly inspired! Ha, ha, ha!<BR/><BR/>-rpAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-900671458188709604.post-59666548453741102132008-11-06T18:15:00.000-08:002008-11-06T18:15:00.000-08:00The voice of your ego is characterized by anger, a...The voice of your ego is characterized by anger, anxiety, complaint, fear, rationalization, reactiveness, self-aggrandizement and self-centeredness. <BR/><BR/>Conversely, the voice of the true <BR/>Self is compassionate, forgiving, grateful, harmonious, humble, loving, merciful, peaceful, tolerant and trusting.<BR/><BR/>Random acts of kindness---a good way to visit the Self.<BR/><BR/>Treat yourself. Be kind to someone or something.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-900671458188709604.post-29888724023359549982008-11-06T17:06:00.000-08:002008-11-06T17:06:00.000-08:00"Why not take the same money and put it towards......"Why not take the same money and put it towards..."<BR/><BR/>in a word, people. in this case enough of them who's bread and butter comes from mr big that when mr big be goin bust because the buncha bilkin bastards buggered the bid'ness with bad management and bas-akerds mentality and bombed the market with bloated blackgold guzzlers at the behest of the buyer, he gets the bailout demanded by bob and betty the bumper busters because they're bitin the big one too. but it's too late... it be all over but the bloodlettin and the bitchin. blah, blah, blah... pAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-900671458188709604.post-8532163153447582232008-11-06T15:35:00.000-08:002008-11-06T15:35:00.000-08:00...if you are interested and have a spare half hou......if you are interested and have a spare half hour free time, this could be an interesting fill...<BR/><BR/>http://blip.tv/file/1417453<BR/><BR/>ElyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-900671458188709604.post-59421342527189973932008-11-06T15:33:00.000-08:002008-11-06T15:33:00.000-08:00FA, all of that is very true but being legally mar...FA, all of that is very true but being legally married has a LOT of benefits that don't accrue to unmarried couples. I'm not talking just about SSI and discounts on insurance; I'm talking about next-of-kin status and the right to see your partner in the hospital. Gay couples do not have that right. I've known of cases where a lifelong couple has been denied the right to be at their dying partners bedside because they weren't legally next of kin, and of wills being overturned because the surviving partner wasn't 'real' family. And that's just to begin with.<BR/><BR/>Prop 8 was a constitutional amendment, BUT, it is being challenged as unconstitutional. The reason, they are claiming, is that California has two procudures for amending the constitution and they used the wrong one because this amendment effectively repeals the Equal Protection Clause, a major section of the document. That requires a separate, much more arduous process. <BR/>There's a good chance the court will buy that arugment. I hope so.<BR/><BR/>I would like the state to stay out of marriage as well, but as long as they insist on poking their nose in, everyone should be equal under the law. I may be in Alabama but the more states that have it, the faster it will spread. And the faster it spreads, the faster it will get to the Supreme Court. That's the ultimate goal, of course: to get it before the high court. Most people I've read would give it a 50/50 chance of getting by the court today, depending on how Kennedy voted. Obama will appoint at least two justices and maybe more. <BR/><BR/>It will take a ruling of the court to spread it nationwide, of that I have no doubt. Just as it took the court ruling on abortion, on segregation, on so many other things (including recognition of Wicca as a legal religion). I don't agree with all of their decision (obviously) but the last forty years or so they have done a remarkable job of fulfilling thier first obligation: to protect the rights of the minority from the tyranny of the majority, as Jefferson put it.<BR/><BR/>Okay, rant over. Sorry. I've been a bit upset today. Can you tell? ;-)<BR/><BR/>In other news, The Automatic Earth has a very good post up today. http://www.theautomaticearth.blogspot.com/ (It's updated daily, so if you read it tomorrow you'll need to go into the archives.)RAShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16264114986793504233noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-900671458188709604.post-62732650820796860152008-11-06T13:10:00.000-08:002008-11-06T13:10:00.000-08:00I Googled video of Amero, got this in the returns....I Googled video of Amero, got this in the returns.<BR/><BR/>http://groups.google.com/group/total_truth_sciences/browse_thread/thread/56afd0f4f29d8bad<BR/><BR/>Looks pretty interesting. Had to check the back of my driver's license. Nope, no hologram, yet!<BR/><BR/>Jacques; Thanks for that Chris Martenson video link. It's awe sum!<BR/><BR/>-rpAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-900671458188709604.post-51039235904987400392008-11-06T12:20:00.000-08:002008-11-06T12:20:00.000-08:00Folks,For those that have forgotten or didn't ...Folks,<BR/><BR/>For those that have forgotten or didn't get it first time around, here is a short video you will want to look at explaining steady percentage rate of growth of anything. Apply this to anything that looks interesting, like electrical usage, or oil usage or population growth.<BR/><BR/>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=<BR/>F-QA2rkpBSY&feature=relatedAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-900671458188709604.post-14173655798293486942008-11-06T10:14:00.000-08:002008-11-06T10:14:00.000-08:00The lemmings here in Mormon HQ were a big force in...The lemmings here in Mormon HQ were a big force in getting Prop 8 passed, ras. These dick-weeds make me sick. These LDS church spent millions in getting it passed so it'd be great if the CA Supremo Court found Prop 8 to be unconstitional.<BR/><BR/>dudeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-900671458188709604.post-76448650173748670242008-11-06T09:24:00.000-08:002008-11-06T09:24:00.000-08:00I went to Cindy Sheehans's site, Rockpicker, and t...I went to Cindy Sheehans's site, Rockpicker, and there was a letter from her on it that expressed how she feels now that the race is lost. Couldn't find any details, numbers or anything.<BR/><BR/>As I understand it, the CA anti-gay marriage proposal wasn't just a law, it was a constitutional amendment! Maybe the court will find it unconstitutional. I just can't imagine it going into effect. Bummer. Sorry ras. But, maybe the State should not be involved in weddings anyway. Being legally married comes with many problems of its own: being liable for each other's debts, killing your eligibility for a whole slew of benefits, etc. A couple can have a wonderful and significant marriage ceremony that is socially and personally binding that does not involve the state. As anarchists, we did.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-900671458188709604.post-20225189620688577552008-11-06T07:24:00.000-08:002008-11-06T07:24:00.000-08:00Here's a link to a Brasscheck video on the compres...Here's a link to a Brasscheck video on the compressed air car.<BR/><BR/>http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/456.html<BR/><BR/>Pelosi wants to make large sums of our treasure available to the three big auto makers. Why not take the same money and put it towards mass transit infrastructure and this sort of innovative technology?<BR/><BR/>Btw, anyone hear news about Pelosi's race? I'm assuming she defeated Cindy Sheehan, but I have yet to hear details.<BR/><BR/>-rockpickerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-900671458188709604.post-22508460561016290072008-11-06T05:11:00.000-08:002008-11-06T05:11:00.000-08:00Hmm, my thoughts on dams. Anyone have a pack of dy...Hmm, my thoughts on dams. Anyone have a pack of dynamite handy? Seriously, they are that bad. Not just for the fish and forests upstream -they totally destroy the ecology downstream as well. Some dams can be useful but mostly they are an ecological nightmare. I read somewhere (The World Without Us, I think and highly recommended, btw) that it will take, oh, 10,000-20,000 years for Hoover Dam to start developing holes.<BR/><BR/>Geothermal has a lot of problems, as Murph pointed out. I believe it has a ridiculuously long payback time, which probably would never be reached because in most places where it is feasible the installation would be destroyed by a volcanic eruption long before that.<BR/><BR/>Murph, I totally agree with you on your thoughts about the short vs. long-term benefits of technology. We have got to start thinking about the future of our children, grandchildren, and so on. I can not stand the idea that something is good if it gives me a good life at the expense of my grandkids. I've mentioned before that I am pagan, and my religion has one fundamental creed: Do No Harm. It's a high idea, and one that I certainly don't live up to yet, but Goddess knows I'm trying.<BR/><BR/>I heard the gay marriage ban in California passed. So much for the expansion of civil rights.RAShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16264114986793504233noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-900671458188709604.post-18621144083859913862008-11-05T16:52:00.000-08:002008-11-05T16:52:00.000-08:00Jacques,Interesting you brought up the geothermal ...Jacques,<BR/><BR/>Interesting you brought up the geothermal idea. I just recently came across a couple of articles on it. Our area, which is volcanic to the extreme in the past, has been talking about geothermal for 50 years, and nothing has been done. There are a few places on the globe where it has been implemented and as I understand it, with some success. <BR/><BR/>The two articles I read recently indicated that the engineering and tech problems with large uses of geothermal are immense and the capital investment also huge. As a large scale project, there are very limited areas where it is feasible, after all, geothermal is available if you go deep enough but the problems in going really deep are beyond us right now. One other problem with harnessing this is the infrastructure needed. So, if we build a geothermal plant, heat the buildings within a hundred miles of it and generate some electricity also, we still haven't solved a national problem. The amount of sites for this is rather limited. , and the investment would be enormous. We're right back to the economic system that must have profits from the endeavor. Because of this, I don't expect to see a wide spread usage of that technology anytime soon. It's cheaper to fight wars over oil.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-900671458188709604.post-87054744884594998802008-11-05T16:10:00.000-08:002008-11-05T16:10:00.000-08:00this is a good subject...I found an amazing site ...this is a good subject...<BR/>I found an amazing site the other day by Chris Martenson that is a series of videos about 3 hrs total. He connects ALL the dots, from the ideology of growth, the modern banking/finance system, peak oil, climate change, and demographic shift. The overall picture is pretty hard to fathom...I very much recommend:<BR/><BR/>http://www.chrismartenson.com/crash-course<BR/><BR/>As for growth..even if we did replace fossil fuels with ZPE or some other exotic, and even if we did maintain exponential growth...by 2150 (according to "Eating Fossil Fuels") we would be living in a world of 80 billion people. 80 BILLION PEOPLE !!<BR/><BR/>It's clear to me that the growth ideology is seriously flawed, and the longer we take to come to terms with this, the more devastating of an attrition there will be. The problem is that this realization flies in the face of everything that culture has programmed us to accept as normative reality.<BR/><BR/>It's still unbelievable to me that Peak Oil is still in the margins...if it is true, which I'm 99% sure that it is, we are right on the precipice of the most dramatic change in THE HISTORY OF MANKIND. <BR/><BR/>As great as this moment is for Civili Rights, etc....no one want's to temper their enthusiasm and stare down for the root cause of this recession/depression. The only way that the effects will be mitigated is through an honest unflinching look at the ecological realities we face. It may be that it needs to get MUCH MUCH WORSE before people can connect the dots and make the jump into a new paradigm. By this time it may be too late. However, I'm sure that people will survive. Somewhere.<BR/><BR/>That being said, no one has brought up Geo-Thermal. There is a virually unlimited supply of heat coming from the earth's interior...<BR/><BR/><BR/>Regarding John Michael Greer...the dude is pretty smart. Heinberg Kunstler level, and he even answers blog comments.I give his view a great deal of creedence. He is a "Decliner" more than a "Doomer" which seems pretty close to my sensibility.Jacques de Beauforthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08158137495389959824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-900671458188709604.post-4658138644605204422008-11-05T14:30:00.000-08:002008-11-05T14:30:00.000-08:00Murph and BelgiumI find what you two are discussi...Murph and Belgium<BR/><BR/>I find what you two are discussing most interesting.... may I just toss in a not often considered name?<BR/><BR/>Schauberger....<BR/><BR/>He was passionate about trees, and natural forests as the cradle of water. He warned how deforestation would deplete the world of water and destroy fertility, causing deserts and climatic chaos. He argued that when the natural eco-systems are in balance and diversity rules, there is great creativity and the evolution of higher and more complex life forms, but there is also order and stability.<BR/><BR/>When humanity walked lightly on the Earth, we cooperated with Nature. Although we are still part of Nature, we behave as though we are not, but above it, dominating and exploiting it. Viktor warned that the more we continued to go against Nature, the whole eco-system would become sick, the climate destructive, and human society would break down, with extreme violence, greed and pandemic illnesses. <BR/><BR/><BR/>ElyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-900671458188709604.post-1915286463363796992008-11-05T14:29:00.000-08:002008-11-05T14:29:00.000-08:00Belgium,My suggestions. hmmm. My stance is that ...Belgium,<BR/><BR/>My suggestions. hmmm. My stance is that first we have to change the economic system world wide. We have to stop overproducing planned obsolescence articles and being throw away societies. Of course, that means less profits in the hands of the corporations, but nevertheless, that is needed. We have the technology to end all pollution right now. Enforce it. Which again will cut down consumer goods and force a much simpler life style. If we simply enforce responsibility for actions by the corporations, that would eliminate a lot of problems but not solve everything. I still maintain that we have overshot the carrying capacity of the earth for sustainable living. How that is solved is a bit gory to even contemplate. <BR/><BR/>Remember when there was a pride in manufacturing a product with an almost indefinite lifetime? Remember when products could be self repaired? Long gone now for the most part. I'm one of the only people that I know that will salvage a $5 digital wrist watch, or tear apart a motor tool and actually make it work again instead of throwing it away and buying new. It does cause raised eyebrows. The lack of these long life term items, from refrigerators and washers to automobiles is due to the economic system. That has to be changed right from the git go. Not going to happen unless it is forced. <BR/><BR/>Fish ladders are used on some dams. For the most part, it hasn't seemed to stop the lowering of fish counts up river. There is lots of debate going on concerning why. Derrick Jensen flat out blames the dams. Overfishing may have something to do with it too. Most of the hard core environmentalists insist that the fish ladders are not a fix, but only delay the inevitable, the extinction of spawning fish in our rivers. Like every other environmental issue, there are statistics and data all over the place. Very little total cost to benefit ratio studies done. <BR/><BR/>I don't like it, but it sure appears to me that every technological advancement is/has been used always at the expense of the environment. After all, my life certainly takes advantage of these technologies. And nobody wants to talk about lowering their standard of living to protect wildlife or the gross environment, even most of the environmentalists. They certainly like to hold their get togethers in remote places where they drive their SUVs to get there. <BR/><BR/>Sustainability, (the ability to continue into the future) depends on not using up the environment at a greater rate than it can renew. Those things, like metal mining, fuel, need to be rationed and the population kept stable at a lower number than we currently have. How to accomplish that under present circumstances and current thought is a problem I can't solve and I think is wistful thinking that it can be done in some kind of orderly manner. If we had been wiser in the beginning, we would have the resources for a smaller population far into perpetuity. Instead, we, probably through massive ignorance, squandered it on short term gains. If we had paid attention 50 years ago, we could have done something about it I think. I fear it is much too late now.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-900671458188709604.post-29190800320743669252008-11-05T13:45:00.000-08:002008-11-05T13:45:00.000-08:00From Belgium,Ok Murph, that is fine. If we accept ...From Belgium,<BR/><BR/>Ok Murph, that is fine. If we accept your arguments then what do you propose as an alternative? Is doing nothing, the best way forward? <BR/><BR/>Btw, why were salmon ladders, ie pools at about 2ft difference in height stretching from the bottom of the dam to the top, never installed in the US?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-900671458188709604.post-55583930555558705752008-11-05T13:05:00.000-08:002008-11-05T13:05:00.000-08:00Belgium,Your 'so what' question is interesting to ...Belgium,<BR/><BR/>Your 'so what' question is interesting to talk about.<BR/><BR/>All of these drastic changes you mention took place a long time in the past, and seemingly did not impact an industrial advanced civilization. One of the characteristics of a complex living pattern is that it is inherently unstable when confronted with big changes of some kind. More simple living patterns are much more flexible. Nomadic tribes are free to move about with little restraining conditions when a particular area becomes too harsh to support them. Despite our mobile society, take a look at what would happen if the midwest farmland was exposed to continual drought, as happened in the early parts of the 20th century. Huge migrations of people and a very drastic reduction in farming, ie, food supply. Today, for most industrial countries, the problem is compounded considerably by much larger populations. Take a look at what is happening in Australia right now over that very issue. They are in big big trouble it seems. <BR/><BR/>So, if it is true that many huge wind farms would alter weather patterns, I would speculate that the effects on the complex civilization would be disproportionately large. Natural changes in weather patterns happen relatively slowly allowing groups of people to adapt or move on. If the wind farms have an effect, I would also infer the changes will be drastic and relatively quick. <BR/><BR/>You mentioning of giant water wheels in the river not altering anything at the time is true. The next question would be how many of them would it take to slow down the flow of water and change the temperature of the water and consequently the ecology of the river? <BR/><BR/>Take an example. The extreme altering of a river is a dam. Have they altered the ecology of the rivers and the surrounding land? From the analysis' I have read, indeed they have. In Alaska, dams have altered significantly the forest growth along the rivers simply by severely limiting the salmon runs and that the dead salmon nourished the river bank forests and other growths. So, the forests are receding from the river and that promotes erosion during seasonal runoff. <BR/><BR/>I still assert that the use of technology in the last 200 years has indeed had short term benefits and long term deficits that are mostly coming to understanding today. Our civilized structure has chosen to ignore the long term consequences for a variety of reasons, and preferred to pass the cost to future generations. I simply cannot advocate more of the same.<BR/><BR/>On a much smaller scale, we are battling in our locality over that very issue. The local governments want to make destination resorts wherever they can to up local tax bases. The state is finally getting into the act now and questioning the wisdom of such development. Few if any real environmental impacts have been done on these resorts, particularly dealing with water. There has up to now, been no study on the accumulative effects on ground water and surface water by these resorts that tend to be concentrated into relatively small areas of land, and which do indeed impact water levels and the environment. Our citizens action group has been seriously delving into this issue, and it appears to be a very short term gain by the county governments and a long term deficit that will have to be dealt with in the future. In the name of the god almighty dollar, the long term consequences are simply ignored or minimized in applications. Every inch we give up to the developers will be paid for 10 times over in the future. I simply cannot support such folly. <BR/><BR/>If the figurative waters wheels need to be stuck in the river to accomplish something fine, but 10,000 of them in a couple miles of river run is something else again.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-900671458188709604.post-72403297167999899202008-11-05T12:03:00.000-08:002008-11-05T12:03:00.000-08:00From Belgium,I keep playing boring broken record o...From Belgium,<BR/><BR/>I keep playing boring broken record over this one but once again I return to the secret meeting of congress March 2008. Particularly that the dollar will fail somewhere in the fourth quarter 2008 and that all US government services would become inoperable by February 2009. Wearing my cynical hat I am led to wonder if some twisted but illuminated person has arranged for the black guy to take the fall. I am in agreement with most of you that the best guy won. I also wonder if they have chosen a bigger maverick. What if on the second day of his presidency he was to abolish the Fed? Ah, best not to dwell on these indulgencies. <BR/><BR/>Assuming that carbon reserves are finite, I have a gut feeling that the dollar a week lot, the ones that have never had anything and likely never will and who are still here, are the ones who will be best suited to survive a world economic downturn; at least far better than their more civilised counterparts. But if oil is running out what would you do with the remaining reserves? Let Joe run around and fill the back of his SUV with six packs or build something like wind generators which will help to keep us going for a while longer. The Earth is what it is, like it or lump it. What if the Rocky Mountains were not there (known by different names but from Alaska to the Baja California), the weather patterns would be different but we would have adapted to whatever it was. If wind farms alter climate on either the micro or macro scale then so what? We will deal with what the new situation is like we always have. When cotton was king and the mill owners of England and Kentucky put giant water wheels into the river to drive their factories, they took energy out of the river and altered the flow but so far as I am aware nobody suffered harmful effects from this (the mill workers notwithstanding). <BR/><BR/>As for the magnetic pole moving about, I believe that this is quite normal. I was always led to believe, perhaps mistakenly that there is a giant lump of molten iron under the North Pole but because the axis of the earth is tilted and the axis of the molten iron isn’t then the magnetic pole cycles over time about +/- 6°.<BR/><BR/>Archaeologists and anthropologists have studied ancient Aboriginal sites from tens of thousands of years back and found that iron implements left in fires are magnetised the wrong way round indicating that in past ages, confirmed by carbon dating, the poles have flipped, perhaps many times. Again, so what? Navigation systems will be out of action for a week or so whilst the problem is sorted out but the aborigines will still be here, mostly and migrating birds including the arctic tern which travels from the North Pole to the South Pole and then back again will still be with us, mostly. <BR/><BR/>Things will be different but we will deal with it, so why all the fuss?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com