tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-900671458188709604.post7381204346493744630..comments2024-03-07T00:40:45.585-08:00Comments on Trout Clan Campfire: murph & freeacrehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10278932450332333778noreply@blogger.comBlogger36125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-900671458188709604.post-52427043083682717342008-02-07T16:07:00.000-08:002008-02-07T16:07:00.000-08:00Oldensoul, Those friends of your don't need the in...Oldensoul,<BR/> Those friends of your don't need the internet nearly as much as we all need them. They are the vanguard and should be treasured by us all. Good for them!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-900671458188709604.post-56643966081832064312008-02-07T13:50:00.000-08:002008-02-07T13:50:00.000-08:00I thought I’d add to the comments by rp and dude a...I thought I’d add to the comments by rp and dude about friends who choose not to stay abreast of daily happenings, via the internet, in our ever-changing and increasingly unstable world. Perhaps some people, I’m thinking of three of my friends, instinctively know that a “mainstream” lifestyle is unacceptable and their daily adult lives have always been geared toward a sustainable survival. Today’s news does not drive their actions, but seems to validate them. These friends listen to public radio and are voracious readers, but feel they don’t have the time or the desire to use the internet for information. They are too busy: baking bread for the community in their outdoor wood-fired bake oven, built by them and a group of locals; tending chickens who supply organic eggs for many households; salvaging buildings to reconstruct for themselves and others in town; building and maintaining compost piles that enrich so many gardens in our area; growing sizable gardens and an orchard to feed themselves and to supply our local farmers market with fresh organic produce and garden products; gathering, drying and packaging organic heirloom seeds from vegetables, herbs and flowers for themselves and for sale at market; helping build and maintaining a booster tower to bring public radio into this small mountain town; volunteering to protect local resources and otherwise, so extensively that I won’t even begin to list what they do to help this community; creating arts and humanities programming for a culturally isolated region; networking to bring people together to discuss successful sustainable/survival techniques being used in our area, such as permaculture….and on and on…..Days filled with practices that soon could help them and others survive our uncertain future. <BR/><BR/>…So maybe we all can share what we learn each day…teach each other by example, as mf points out…..and form a greater circle of knowledge.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-900671458188709604.post-88183044327571119272008-02-07T09:37:00.000-08:002008-02-07T09:37:00.000-08:00Morning, mf,Sorry to hear you're feeling "under th...Morning, mf,<BR/><BR/>Sorry to hear you're feeling "under the weather," but then, aren't we all?<BR/><BR/>Hey, I have a bug, now, too. A little lady appeared a few days ago on a roll of toilet paper in the bathroom, where I keep a small, potted Thai pepper hold-over from last year's garden. I placed her on it and she's been busy munching <BR/>aphids ever since.<BR/><BR/>Palooka, how's the weather down there? Sounds pretty bad.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-900671458188709604.post-6711613383245008922008-02-07T05:17:00.000-08:002008-02-07T05:17:00.000-08:00Salutations brothers and sisters, great post and c...Salutations brothers and sisters, great post and comments as usual, sitting here with a head cold or whatever the current crud that issues forth from the contrails that are almost constantly overhead in ( visible in contrail weather). <BR/>langosta tells me stories about the happenings in her world as i slide back and forth, oblivion wise,we watch the passing snow storms in wonder and relish the return of an actual winter,.... thought they were a passing memory in the mind of a former hashish freak but now here they are, great spirit we are blessed.<BR/>murph she takes a slight twitch at the " dirty bug infected bunch of bullshit " but i smooth her over and tell here not to take it personally and she smiles that special smile and says " i know". she likes to romp in the snow for a good cleanse and smells right good too.<BR/>i wish i could remember all the things she says during the day and night but its just to much, she talks of death a lot and says its a pity that people are so frightened of something they know nothing about and thereby know nothing of life, i find this interesting because the body we wear is nothing more then a costume she says, a good one though and if we took better care of it we might live long enough to actually understand some of the less fashionable topics that are available and says the people might come to love their existence here if they stopped for a minute and put aside the mind numbing inventions of humans.<BR/>i say good luck on that one.<BR/>it seems as if the comments here are really outstanding and not that hard to follow.<BR/>the self lubricating snake sounds like nc has much to offer and the reasons for remaining in the mountains there is just as sound as here in these parts, the mota season is just around the corner and a telephone call from humboldt county last nite gives me the squiggles in anticipation, purple cush, yummy, for all here that are lax in the groovy times of the sixties,afghanistan is way more then just a place to kill people for fun and profit,..o yeah its fun to kill folks, i mean join the military and get free guns, free ammo, and free people to kill and usually no court appearances to justify ones actions, a psychopaths dream come true.<BR/>the bug says thats a dumb thing to say and i say so what? its true ain't it? she looks at me as if there is not one single thread of hope for me and , i ponder this.<BR/><BR/>you know a lot of the comments here have to do with trying to enlighten folks that would just as well have us mind our own business and i agree somewhat, however on occasion someone will come along that displays a spark of interest in what we blither about and don't mind the questions that are a requisite to opening the mind to the possibilities that exist in perhaps understanding the rudimentary features of the illusion that we are smothered in, (like mustard on a hot dog bug says) from birth and perhaps even before that if a deeper look has taken place.<BR/>so this one has take the position of looking at those around me as friends and neighbors and just try to do what i can in this tiny corner of the world and and teach by actions, which has been said many times before and still holds true i expect.<BR/>the multitude of teenagers that troop through this square teepee are really a special bunch to me and they really shine when given the freedom to express their issues, and it is actually fun to be included in their world of teenage angst. its a noticeable difference when they talk of their constricted home life and how fucked up their parents attitudes are and i have to truthfully agree with them and manage to throw in a biscuit of a question now and them in a thoughtful manner and they respond if they know there is no judgement involved in their response to a question, because it is such a novelty to actually have someone to listen to what they have to say.<BR/>instead of being told what to do and what to think i say what do you think? and what would you do? its really amazing folks if you haven't experienced this, a true delight to the light for sure. these kids are really brilliant in the unexpected stuff that comes out of their mouths. <BR/>what a fucking waste public school is, and of course its all planed by the cretins that have their foot on our necks to produce generations of cloned tv watchers as consumers, and the comment sounded right about the balance of the number of consumers and the havoc of earth destruction and limited resources available to consume, i mean there is only so much shit to sell on the earth, right? and if there is to many people the earth ends up as toast and profit and greed are tilted somewhat i think,maybe not, i do not understand these things as well as i would like to.<BR/>i am finding out a little more about humanity by being turned on to this sight,<BR/><BR/>http://www.sott.net/articles/show/148141-The-Trick-of-the-Psychopath-<BR/><BR/><BR/>its a long read but hell even i can understand the fucker. i hope<BR/><BR/><BR/>After reading the book Political Ponerology, A science on the nature of evil adjusted for political purposes by Andrzej Łobaczewski, I wished to interview the author. However, ..........................<BR/><BR/>peace to all that attend this wonderful place of sacred beings<BR/>aho<BR/>mfAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-900671458188709604.post-21613712149626396232008-02-06T22:45:00.000-08:002008-02-06T22:45:00.000-08:00Hey, John Pilger has put together a great document...Hey, John Pilger has put together a great documentary called "The War On Democracy." It's a small history lesson covering some of the shit the US has pulled on its South American neighbors. Includes great interviews with Hugo Chavez. It offers us a glimpse into our own future, I think.<BR/><BR/>Viva la revolution!<BR/><BR/>http://freedomvideo.org/blog/?p=849Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-900671458188709604.post-21212239891216352852008-02-06T16:04:00.000-08:002008-02-06T16:04:00.000-08:00When John Fremont "discovered" Lake Tahoe, he thou...When John Fremont "discovered" Lake Tahoe, he thought the region uninhabited. The truth was that the Washoe tribe had lived in the area since before recorded time. They used to live winters below in the valley, and summers all around Lake Tahoe. They considered the Lake sacred. Each year it took weeks of ceremony to purify themselves enough to be worthy to set foot in the area. Artifacts can be found of the Washoe Indians dating back 5-10,000 years. But the forests and the waters remained pristine. The animals, fish, and birds remained in balance, and everybody thrived. <BR/> The Washoe people may not have had books, manufacturing, or finance, but they sure knew how to act. Personally, I would probably not be able to make the transition back to that lifestyle, even though I greatly admire them. But, I will try to at least get out of the way.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-900671458188709604.post-82846783453828479082008-02-06T12:35:00.000-08:002008-02-06T12:35:00.000-08:00Ras, "At one time nearly half of China was foreste...Ras, "At one time nearly half of China was forested. The famous agricultural scholar, Georg Bergstrom estimates that 670 million acres of China were once covered. this forest, with its complex ecosystem was gone almost before written history."<BR/>"The Final Empire" by William Kotke<BR/><BR/>The Yellow River received its name for the tremendous load of silt which it carried yearly to the sea from agricultural sources.<BR/><BR/>The story is the same for all the empires of Civilization: Greeks, Romans, Mesopotamians, Maya, Aztecs, Indus River Valley et.al. They all degraded the environment until the empires collapsed. Civilization, which basically means Empire is by definition unsustainable. We humans have been going down this dead-end road since the inception of agriculture.<BR/><BR/>The fact that farming exists anywhere means that land has been degraded. Farming of any stripe so far attempted is in the end unsustainable. In times past this situation has been masked largely because populations were relatively small and there was always new continents to conquer and ravage. When the environment could no longer support people they moved on like locusts to decimate new horizons.<BR/><BR/>The problem we face today is that there is nowhere left to go. The irony is that Civilization is coming down whether we will it or not. The difference is that every little bit sooner which it does come down saves that much more of our land base for future generations.<BR/> We still have options but they are quickly running out. The one mistake that we can't afford to make is to think that there is a difference between Western and Eastern Civilization.<BR/><BR/>Murph, You said, "Those that have no fear of dumping civilization are tending to become elitist about it. I think that would be a mistake." <BR/><BR/>I battle that particular demon almost daily. Lord help me- I loose patience and become arrogant. I'm just a poor peasant seeking truth.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-900671458188709604.post-27682850658459511722008-02-06T10:07:00.000-08:002008-02-06T10:07:00.000-08:00From Belgium,Back on the economy swing just for a ...From Belgium,<BR/><BR/>Back on the economy swing just for a minute, this one is an interesting explanation of what has happened. <BR/><BR/>http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/JA30Dj02.html<BR/><BR/>It is a long article and some of it is hard to follow if you are not steeped in the subject but it is definitely get throughable. I haven’t reached the end of it yet. I have to bail out to go out and chew the fat with a mate I haven’t seen for over a month. <BR/>Many of us have followed through the logic that money represents debt even if we couldn’t do it now on a piece of paper. For those who haven’t, check out Money as Debt from www. brashchecktv.com <BR/>What I hadn’t realised is that the opposite is also true, that the writing off of debt, as when the housing bubble bursts, represents the withdrawal of money from the economy. The Fed can try to control the liquidity of the economy but what they cannot control is the wealth that any given amount of money represents and this is where much of the problem lies, according to the article. Anyway, it is worth a look see.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-900671458188709604.post-33795617542774014272008-02-06T09:12:00.000-08:002008-02-06T09:12:00.000-08:00Yeah, Rockpicker, I experience the same when I spe...Yeah, Rockpicker, I experience the same when I speak to others about world events, geography, politics, etc. Living in Mormon HQ has a "Stepford Wives" feel to it with a plus side being that they have a better understanding of geography due to going on missions for the LDS church. Not so when when speaking with people while living in South Carolina -they too had no idea where New Orleans was located.<BR/><BR/>The other day I ran across someone having a cow about Hillary. She considered Hillary the devil's spawn or worse and so I asked her if she thought the current administration was any better and she said, "At least our president is a Christain." <BR/><BR/>To a lot of people I've come across, their church and what the church tells them is pretty much what they're gonna believe. To them, GWB is the second comming and nothing you say will make them change their minds. To question or to think differently from their church would just blow their minds. They "can't handle the truth." <BR/><BR/>I've tried to enlighten those who DO question the dogma or can see through some of the BS on MSM. I've told them where to go to get information that hasn't been filtered through multinational corporations, explained to them why what they've been told by Charlie Gibson is wrong, etc, but then the laziness sets in and they go back to being sheeple. <BR/><BR/>Part of it is fear, also. Showing facts that point to our government being responsible for killing 3,000 US citizens on Sept 11, 2001 is hard for most people to grasp. They just don't want to believe it and will continue to keep their heads in the sand -or stick their fingers in their ears saying, "lalalalaIcan'thearyouIcan'thearyou....." What's to do about it? I don't know -I've given up. They are beyond hope and cannot be unplugged from "The Matrix."<BR/><BR/>Later -<BR/><BR/>DudeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-900671458188709604.post-73660864910293203262008-02-06T08:41:00.000-08:002008-02-06T08:41:00.000-08:00rp.... well aware of the point you make. i don't ...rp.... well aware of the point you make. i don't think for a minute the paper's sole purpose is extortion. in the meantime, it appears to be an effective tool to keep the wolves, who would love to have a piece of his sorry and most deserved ass, at bay. leave it to jr to double dip his assets.<BR/><BR/>between him and his sidekick we have, hands down, the most sinister pair to ever sit in the white house. there are reasons.<BR/><BR/>all... <BR/><BR/>hold the line. that is, in their twisted minds, their charge. <BR/><BR/>for our own good. that is, in those same twisted minds, their justification.<BR/><BR/>anything and anyone who gets in the way of that is, in those same twisted minds, just so much collateral damage. including our own citizenry. listen to them. they tell us loud and clear. its there in their words and actions.<BR/><BR/>ironically we were given a pre-view. we need only recall the reaction of the masses when one tim mevey used this exact same word. we brought our rage to bear as we lined up in unison to watch the monster fry for it. and then turned right around and aligned with the justification to rationalize the agressive actions of our leaders in iraq and around the world. they used this exact same word to justify their actions. <BR/><BR/>did we hear it? have we forgetten completly that the dynamic knows no brother and can just as likely, come home to roost? some of us did. and we'd have them fry for it. would that make it go away for all time? if we kill bin laden would that make him go away for all time?<BR/><BR/>the true state of realities manifest and can come in the most difficult of lessons. it is the way of universe. lessons equal to, or greater than, the level of denial involved.<BR/><BR/>we need only go take another look at the movie "a few good men" to see this very same twisted reasoning as justification for actions as portrayed by jack nicholson's character. when you see nicholson loose it on the stand after the "good guys" found him guilty, think bush, cheney, feif, wolfman, norquist, addington, libby, rove, et al. right there you have how they think. (speaking of rove, he slithered out of his hole to join the crew at faux news last nite.)<BR/><BR/>a few good men. thats how they see themselves! how's that different from how we see ourselves here around this campfire and justify our own views and actions? look beyond the perceived good or bad of the parties involved. look to the driving forces fueling both them and us. the energetic dynamic in play, not the good or bad of it.<BR/><BR/>support for the war was 85% in the early going. and though the support has dwindled significantly over time, a considerable % of that is only because we are viewed as loosing. <BR/><BR/>so "we" does not really apply eh? there were exceptions. from the get-go. most who hang here were/are in that small minority. yet most of us here have accumulated our own arsenal to hold the line with full intent to use it. david and goliath ride once more. but at least we'll go down fightin eh? <BR/><BR/>probably. but is there a deeper layer of the cake? can we look beyond for some clue that might be the sin qua non to a different outcome?<BR/><BR/>our brother mf keeps reminding us of the mirror. like collateral damage, the mirror knows no brother. the masses appear to be asleep. perhaps there's a reason. perhaps most are mere fragments. what could that bode for the ones who are more awake? the ones we count ourselves among. could they/we then perhaps be more parental? could there be a layer of the cake we're missing despite its staring right back at us? despite its slapping us smack-dab in the face over and over and over? could it be fragmentation flicks off a little at a time? add a few generations, aka lifetimes, and there's billions running around gobbling up resources at unsustainable rates. and, ignoring the mirror, it just looks like us against them when, collectively, we're all in the same boat... a monster eating itself alive. <BR/><BR/>could it be there's an original cause to be found in that deeper layer of the cake? and it ain't cheap oil. nor too much production. nor the industrial revolution. nor, nor, nor. those are just symptoms manifest. and symptoms are reflections.Palooka's Revengehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03335098025580294691noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-900671458188709604.post-59816166996433203282008-02-06T07:49:00.000-08:002008-02-06T07:49:00.000-08:00So, this Mick who's just come over, goes to the sa...So, this Mick who's just come over, goes to the same neighborhood bar each Friday, after work, and he orders three shots of Tulamore Dew, and three Guinness's.<BR/><BR/>Bartender pours the drinks, and on delivery, asks the chap, "Eh, you appear to be by yourself. What's with all the booze?"<BR/><BR/>Mick says, "Oh, one round is for me, and the other two are for me two brothers, whom I've left in the old country." Bartender nods assent.<BR/><BR/>Well, this develops into a pattern. Every Friday night after work the Mick comes in and orders three shots of whiskey and three beer chasers.<BR/><BR/>One Friday, however, the fellow comes in and orders two shots, two beers. Bartender gets serious. He sets the drinks down and says, "Tom," he says, "I hope something tarrible 'asn't 'appened to one of yer brothers?"<BR/><BR/>The man smiles, with a reassuring pat on the bartender's forearm, and says, "No, no, Paddy, m' brothers are both fine. It's just that, I've given up the drink, ya see?"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-900671458188709604.post-22101995756635643602008-02-06T03:34:00.000-08:002008-02-06T03:34:00.000-08:00From Belgium,Just to make a small point about the ...From Belgium,<BR/><BR/>Just to make a small point about the descendents of the Picts, now generally referred to as Irish Americans; no one doubts their belligerence, their fearlessness or their bravery in battle. Bageant’s point is that this has become so ingrained in their collective nature and they have been so long involved with it that there has never been any time left over for the thinking part. Hence Freeacre’s statement “I can only conclude that our arrogance has made us intellectually lazy”. It should not however in any way be taken, either stated or implied, that this or any other comment is in any way directed towards anyone with the last name of Murphy. <BR/>Ever heard the joke about what is the collective noun for a group of Irish Americans. The answer is a thicket. It would only be a Brit that would come up with such a racist uneducated comment as that, certainly no one like wot I am.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-900671458188709604.post-22476853042102244122008-02-06T00:43:00.000-08:002008-02-06T00:43:00.000-08:00You know, Rockpicker, it occurs to me that we are...You know, Rockpicker, it occurs to me that we are in much the same condition as when the alternative movement began...kids began objecting to the war in Vietnam, began to criticize their parents, began to investigate the government, began to look at the greater culture and found it lacking on so many levels. They caught some sort of mental wave, began a new vision of what living should be about. The alternative clothes, music, vegetarianism, pot, free sex, the women's movement, meditation, communes, etc. etc. <BR/> The straight people were going WTF??? Damn freaks, etc. But, the alternative lifestyle was more fun, and more satisfying, and more intelligent. It got killed when the powers that be got real hard-assed and raised the rent, drove prices up, and it became necessary to have everybody work full time just to get by. And, it morphed out of control from there. We got co-opted, bought off, distracted. The alternative leaders got assassinated, incarcerated, or went underground.<BR/> But now that the economy is tanking, the hippy values of peace and brother/sisterhood, ecology, communal living, etc. might have a chance to rise again. Because, the greedhead lifestyle is unsustainable. I think that if we can come to a place of acceptance that things are going to be tough, but offer alternative and satisfying ways to deal with the new realities of peak everything, it will be attractive, even to those who are woefully late in coming to the party. We can function as a sort of vanguard, and be ready to lead the way out of this mess. We will have to be smarter this time. Hopefully, we will have learned from our mistakes, and won't allow ourselves to let the corporates take over. In ten years, I don't want to be watching the "Collapse Channel."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-900671458188709604.post-62856343461792889452008-02-05T23:38:00.000-08:002008-02-05T23:38:00.000-08:00Palooka;Yeah, I hear ya loud and clear on the mart...Palooka;<BR/><BR/>Yeah, I hear ya loud and clear on the martial law stuff. Problem is, Geo. might just drop the hammer anyway, not matter who sucks up to him, or how sucky the sucker gets. All it takes is a national emergency. FDIC declaring an inability to cover insured deposits would qualify, no?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-900671458188709604.post-17791573169559605332008-02-05T23:11:00.000-08:002008-02-05T23:11:00.000-08:00If your commanding officer asked you if you would ...If your commanding officer asked you if you would have a problem shooting a friend or family member if ordered to do so, say, you were attempting to collect weapons from a civilian population back home, would you wonder about that officer's motivation? According to an article on Rense's site, the military has been asking such questions of American soldiers deployed in Iraq. What do you suppose that's all about?<BR/><BR/>Freeacre, you know I mean the people who visit this site are inquisitive, or they wouldn't wind up here. They're net nerds who have pretty much examined the merits of the lamestream media and found them lacking. They suspect the media of lies and deceptions, cover-ups and omissions. That's why we all come here. We instinctively sense the internet is a place to access truth. If a story smells fishy, you can always keep digging until the real deal's out. <BR/><BR/>So the people who read this already are experiencing the problem I'm having, not just with strangers, but with close friends as well. For some, the technology is too expensive and they don't feel the information is worth the expense, even when free hardware is available. <BR/>Others object to even being made aware of the current state of affairs in this country, and prefer to not know, because the weight of reality is too much to bear. I understand the impulse, but I'm appalled by the degree of effort such thorough denial requires.<BR/>I have one friend who's mouth just drops open when I tell her some of the everyday news I find on the net. It's kind of funny to watch her reactions sometimes. Another just tells me, "Stop. I don't want to know!"<BR/><BR/>But the real problem is that most of the inhabitants of this country are boobs when it comes to things like geography, science, history, politics, art, or current affairs.<BR/>Oh, they're likable enough, all right. But they're ill-informed, uncritical in their thinking and, as Freeacre said, mentally lazy.<BR/><BR/>"Kill Your TV" is fast becoming my favorite bumber sticker.<BR/><BR/>Can anyone else relate to this observed duality? How do we communicate with a majority, (and I'm convinced it is, by far,) who have most of the salient facts of the last seven years, with their attendant biases and emotions, so scrambled from exposure to the "legitimate" media, that most would be hard pressed to describe concisely what has happened in this country since Bush took orifice? <BR/><BR/>How do we debate policy, or identify common interests with these willfully-ignorant masses?<BR/><BR/>I don't wish to sound elitist, here. I have nothing against Joe Sixpack, or the common working stiff. I just want to have an important conversation with him. That's all.<BR/><BR/>BTW, William Rivers Pitt has written a classic piece called "The Bush Administration In One Sentence." I found it here:<BR/><BR/>http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/5822Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-900671458188709604.post-17093080184516994712008-02-05T22:57:00.000-08:002008-02-05T22:57:00.000-08:00rp.... there might be a whole lot more to compare ...rp.... <BR/><BR/>there might be a whole lot more to compare to the head in the bed. rumor has it there's this certain white paper sits on jr's desk and he's using it to hold the dems, or anybody who challenges him, hostage. he symbolically taps on this thing to remind them this is the trump card and he'll play it if they get frogie about the war or investigations or impeachment or whatever. the white paper is what the gambit computer spits out when the monster nimars (the maniacs at nat intel mgt agency) get real imaginative about running scenario simulations. scenarios like complete marshal law, suspension of the constition and elections, $200 oil, and so on. one recent situation run amuck was a mock terrorist attact involving dispursement of radiological weapons above phoenix, portland and guam. then they come up with real cute names for em like solid curtain citidel shield. the mobsters just thought they were the only ones who had extortion tactics aced.Palooka's Revengehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03335098025580294691noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-900671458188709604.post-75708308655437268342008-02-05T22:20:00.000-08:002008-02-05T22:20:00.000-08:00I came across this article, and rather thorough in...I came across this article, and rather thorough investigation into mercenary troops within the U.S. and overseas. <BR/><BR/>http://www.bestcyrano.org/cyrano/?p=244Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-900671458188709604.post-56428824569000321242008-02-05T21:53:00.000-08:002008-02-05T21:53:00.000-08:00ras,I thoroughly understand the thoughts you prese...ras,<BR/><BR/>I thoroughly understand the thoughts you presented on the differences of civilizations. However, in my reading about past civilizations, while some of them appeared to last a long time, they all had similar characteristics. While some did not destroy the farmland, they destroyed much other parts of the environment. While some of these large civilizations failed or declined for unknown or speculative reasons, the primary reason was destruction of the land base by overpopulation. Very large groupings of people exist by means of destruction, it is just a fact of their existence. No city is sustainable in itself, it absolutely depends on voluntary or involuntary acquisition of outside resources. I also think you are somewhat incorrect about China. As I understand the Han dynasty, for example, when they militarily defeated a foe they often would destroy the ability of the defeated to feed themselves by destroying the the farm land. Remember the victors of many civilizations salted the land to keep an uprising from being possible. It would be years until the land would grow again. While it is true that many of these civilizations were resilient and lasted many years, it appears that it was always at the expense of the non elite part of the society. The great wall of China was not built by volunteers. We now have evidence that the early Chinese actually tried to expand to what is now the Western United States, formed colonies and had a military force here, long before Columbus or the Vikings. <BR/><BR/>Another characteristic of great civilizations is the support of the few in luxury of the time, on the backs of the commoners. In the recorded history that we have, it always seems to be true. <BR/><BR/>Another characteristic is the constant effort to expand which of course means military, killing and defeat. <BR/><BR/>I personally know of no "civilization" that was not of this mind, at least with the people that ran the show. The present earliest history from Mesopotamia suggests they were the same way. <BR/><BR/>I would be interested in what data you have to support a contention that not all civilizations are mostly the same.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-900671458188709604.post-32565245257296835332008-02-05T21:33:00.000-08:002008-02-05T21:33:00.000-08:00Rockpicker,In continuance of the comment about pre...Rockpicker,<BR/><BR/>In continuance of the comment about preaching to the choir, I found an article that talks about this. An excerpt from this is below. It is found on Tomas Pain site and written by william Blum;<BR/><BR/>This is why it’s so important for all of us to continue “preaching to the choir” and “preaching to the converted”. That’s what speakers and writers and other activists are often scoffed at for doing — saying the same old thing to the same old people, just spinning their wheels. But long experience as speaker, writer and activist in the area of foreign policy tells me it just ain’t so. From the questions and comments I regularly get from my audiences, via email and in person, and from other people’s audiences as well, I can plainly see that there are numerous significant information gaps and misconceptions in the choir’s thinking, often leaving them unable to see through the newest government lie or propaganda trick; they’re unknowing or forgetful of what happened in the past that illuminates the present; knowing the facts but unable to apply them at the appropriate moment; vulnerable to being led astray by the next person who offers a specious argument that opposes what they currently believe, or think they believe. The choir needs to be frequently reminded and enlightened.<BR/><BR/>"As cynical as others may think they are, the choir is frequently not cynical enough about the power elite’s motivations. They underestimate the government’s capacity for deceit, clinging to the belief that their government somehow means well; they’re moreover insufficiently skilled at reading between the media’s lines. And this all applies to how they view political candidates as well. Try asking “anti-war” supporters of Hillary Clinton if they know what a hawk she is, that — as but one example — she’s promised that American forces will not leave Iraq while she’s president. (And Obama loves the empire as much as Clinton.) When Ronald Reagan was president, on several occasions polls revealed that many, if not most, people who supported him were actually opposed to many of his specific policies."<BR/><BR/>"In sum, even when the hearts of the chorus may be in the right place, their heads still need working on, on a recurring basis. And in any event, very few people are actually born into the choir; they achieve choir membership only after being preached to, multiple times."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-900671458188709604.post-60923570449331103002008-02-05T19:35:00.000-08:002008-02-05T19:35:00.000-08:00Okay, I need to pop in here and comment on an impo...Okay, I need to pop in here and comment on an important distinction about civilization that seems to have been overlooked. Civilization (especially as broadly defined)hasn't failed. Western civilization has. There's a big difference. There are civilizations that have proven to be extremely resilient and sustainable. China, for example, before Western ideals were adopted, had an extremely stable society that lasted literally thousands of years. And with no loss of fertility on their farms, either. There are lots of socities that fall under the realm of civilization that are often overlooked -the Mound people, the great alliance of the Cherokee and other cultures, etc -that were incredible societies, and civilizations, but were mostly destroyed by Western thoughts or military might.<BR/><BR/>Now, as the Archdruid would say, we have a false dichotomy ingrained in our heads: we either accept 'civilization' as is, or we go back to hunting and gathering. But there are many, many other alternatives.<BR/>I'm not knocking hunter-gatherers (though they too can be extremely unsustainable and I for one would not like to live that lifestyle) but there are indeed other options.<BR/><BR/>I think those of us who are aware of the problems and desire change need to be especially careful of going too far in our thinking. When people reject something as bad, evil, etc, they innately tend to over react and lurch automatically towards the extreme opposite of whatever it is they are rejecting. <BR/>That is what the TPTB wish, and one of the reasons false dichotmies exist; they help to reinforce and maintain the existing structure.<BR/><BR/>Just some food for thought.RAShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16264114986793504233noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-900671458188709604.post-75983746279345755282008-02-05T19:15:00.000-08:002008-02-05T19:15:00.000-08:00Boy, there sure is a divide between those who get ...Boy, there sure is a divide between those who get their news from the internet and those who don't. Today I saw a white, middle class-looking woman interviewed at a mall or something. She was asked "what state is New Orleans in?" She laughed and looked around, then said, "I have no idea!" God! It's like these people are proud of being pig ignorant. It's astounding to me. I can only conclude that our arrogance has made us intellectually lazy. Maybe once it all falls down and other countries surpass us in power and prestige, our countrymen will be challenged to know more and do better.<BR/> Well, I guess tonight is sort of like watching the Playoffs of politics. I feel like Al Pacino in the Godfather, when he said, "I try to get out, then they THEY PULL ME BACK IN!" I gotta watch it. <BR/> I don't know about those cables. It sure seems significant to me. Maybe the Middle Eastern countries that Bush talked with didn't go a long with his program, so he decided to show them what we could do. Maybe Israel did it in anticipation of some sort of military action. I sure don't know, but it seems ominous to me.<BR/> Oh, one more thing about new posts... we have around a hundred people a day checking into our site, many first timers. So, it's not just the same old choir. More readers than commenters,by far.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-900671458188709604.post-76008897747787332732008-02-05T19:12:00.000-08:002008-02-05T19:12:00.000-08:00Over at www.rense.com there is an article just up ...Over at www.rense.com there is an article just up called "Connecting the Many Cut Undersea Cable Dots- 9 Or More?" I took this quote from there;<BR/><BR/>"The hard reality is that we are now living in a world of irrational and violent policies enacted against the civilian population by multinational corporations, and military and espionage agencies the world over. We see the evidence for this on every hand. Only the most myopic among us remain oblivious to that reality."<BR/><BR/>The article says that as many as nine cables may have been cut, so, of course, the media have been lying to us again, or at least, shirking their responsibilities. Which is, sadly, the normal state of things Bushent. Google News is no longer covering the story.<BR/><BR/>The article goes on to say;<BR/><BR/> "1) The USS San Jacinto, an anti-missile AEGIS cruiser, was scheduled to dock in Haifa, Israel on 1 February 2008. The Jerusalem Post reported that this ship's anti-missile system "could be deployed in the region in the event of an Iranian missile attack against Israel."(1) Are we to expect another "false flag" attack, like the inside job on 9-11 perhaps? -- an attack that will be made to appear that it comes from Iran, and that is then used as a pretext to strike Iran, maybe with nuclear weapons? And when Iran retaliates with its own missiles, then the Americans and Israelis will unleash further hell on Iran? Is that the Zionist-NeoCon plan, or something generally along those lines?"<BR/><BR/>Meanwhile, the radio is all Clinton and Obama and the financial pundits are already calling Feb. 5 Black Tuesday. (Dow closed off 370 pts. today.) <BR/><BR/>Tomorrow, the beginning of Lent, remember, the old ones say, those who dropped the gourd of ashes will have the gourd of ashes dropped on them...<BR/><BR/>ahoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-900671458188709604.post-46153864700540407582008-02-05T16:57:00.000-08:002008-02-05T16:57:00.000-08:00Buzzard,Yes, I agree that we have to dump civiliza...Buzzard,<BR/><BR/>Yes, I agree that we have to dump civilization. It is going to get real nasty if/when it is accomplished. I suppose it somewhat depends on ones values and perceptions on this. Those people that cannot conceive of living outside of what we call civilization, naturally, are not going to want it to go away. <BR/><BR/>One caution, I see it happening now. Those that have no fear of dumping civilization are tending to become elitists about it. I think that would be a mistake. <BR/><BR/>Thanks for the comments and speak up again.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-900671458188709604.post-10208011864718520152008-02-05T16:50:00.000-08:002008-02-05T16:50:00.000-08:00Rockpicker,Well, those that consider themselves wa...Rockpicker,<BR/><BR/>Well, those that consider themselves warriors, include me in the circle please. I simply cannot conceive of myself sucking ass for the privilege of staying alive. <BR/><BR/>We do pick up new reader periodically so writing a post is not a complete waste of time. I know we preach to the choir here, but damn man, we need the outlet and a very few might just come on board. If I didn't think that was true, I wouldn't be doing this and I suspect that is true for most of the bloggers. Look at all the neat information exchanged here. Plus, when you get discouraged with talking to people around you to no effect, it helps to have someone say "Right on man!" Then you can at the least say maybe I am not living on Pluto after all. lol <BR/><BR/>You got something to say you think is important, write it down man. This site is open to anyone that wants to put something together.<BR/><BR/>But, you are right, there is a great divide in perception.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-900671458188709604.post-81224145956352774442008-02-05T16:39:00.000-08:002008-02-05T16:39:00.000-08:00Dude,Unfortunately I think you also have to includ...Dude,<BR/><BR/>Unfortunately I think you also have to include the general population of our country also in the outlook of the PTB. My observations say that as someone climbs the ladder of "success" there is a corresponding decrease in respect for those below. I've seen it over and over with people I have known for 40 years. If and when the top is reached, those at the bottom are less than human, slobs and idiots. When we make an investigation in what it takes to make it up the ladder, it makes sense.<BR/><BR/>Oh yes, social Darwinism is alive and well, all over the world.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com