Scenes from Freeacre's trip to the coast. from Murph
Ok, I’m getting on my soap box today and have a rant going on in my mind that I will share with you-all.
There is much written on the internet and the MSM concerning the events going on in the East, particularly the rebellion in Egypt. Much speculation as to whether this was set up by the PTB and they will take advantage of it to further their agenda or is a genuine grass roots rebellion to get a “democracy” as a form of government for them to live under. Democracy? Really? I am seeing similarities to the Tea Bag movement, similarities to the local militia movements. Who takes them over?
There is much misuse of concepts like “the democratic state”. What does that really mean? Do elections really change the big money and power brokers agenda?
The following sure appears to me;
- Most of the world’s population desires the means of raising their “standard of living” from whatever it is presently. This increase takes the form of acquiring some increase in some form of medium of exchange and the resources it will consume. We are now back to exponential increases in consumption and the issue of sustainability.
- Populations look at who is/has been successful at this and admires how they do it and make attempts to copy the methodology. This takes the form of “ass kissing” and “bending over” in their efforts to emulate and gain some kind of advantage in acquiring the medium of exchange. It is admiration of the rich and famous. So what is the predominate methodology? It largely depends on allegiance of the minions under the striver in at least a quasi voluntary slavery. The system promises rewards that can not or will not be met, the carrot on the end of the stick image. The methodology operates on the fringe or outright outside of established legal framework and is often outright illegal. It has very questionable moral or ethical operation.
- Rather obvious throughout history and the known mechanization of U.S imperial government that it is a common practice to manipulate other governments and populations by military threat or economic means. Do you really believe that our government and its security operations had no clue that an uprising in the Mid East was eminent and was ripe for manipulation?
- Notice that the term “democracy” is thrown about with abandon, just as it was in Vietnam, Korea, most of the countries in South America when they were in upheaval, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. They had to have a term in opposition to Fascism or Socialism to compare to and is being done today concerning the Mid East. The ONLY significant point concerning this centers on the concept of “free elections”.
- Now ask yourself and answer honestly; Do we here in the U.S. (the supposedly bastion of democracy in the world) have free elections? If you answer “yes” then there sure isn’t much more discourse available. If you answer “no” then what leads you to believe it will happen anywhere else? Were the elections in Iraq actually free elections or were they manipulated? Are these elections actually free or are they manipulated pre planned outcomes, chosen candidates and are mostly controlled by money interests?
So Egypt (and other countries) get rid of the current despot and clamor for democracy and free elections and they actually get them and in the process drawing up some form of a constitution and system of law. Who gets to do this? How much actual participation of the “great unwashed masses” get a say in this? If you say not much or none I’d have to agree. Just how much real change can we expect in Egypt? Take a look at this link;
http://www.rense.com/general92/icke.htm
In our own situation, just how much do you trust any substantial group to formulate a system under which you must live? Do you want to turn this kind of decision making over to the elites and their agenda? Or maybe the “sheeple”, or just who? Of course, I want some say in this and I want the decisions made by people that see things the way I do. I want to be a stake holder, but can that ever happen? Supposedly, I am a stake holder if I get to participate in voting for the people who make these decisions. Does it actually work that way? Or is it an ideal that never quite makes it?
The simple fact is that under any kind of an IDEAL, uncorrupted social organization the society will do just fine, no matter what name you put to it. Even a benevolent dictator is ok. The key words are IDEAL, & UNCORRUPTED.
I’ve got to ask another question for contemplation. How do you limit or eliminate the agendas and corruption from the formation of a new government? Our constitution tried to do that and was relatively successful when compared to what was gong on in Europe at the time. But, we sure as hell can see how it has ended up, corrupt to its eyeballs.
Statesman and individuals in society have blathered continuously over time since our countries formation that democracy, despite its flaws, was better than the alternatives. I agree within certain parameters of observations. However, slavery, whether physical or economic is still slavery. Whatever freedoms a democratic system offers has always been, eventually, eroded into just another form of slavery to the agenda of the elites.
It sure appears to me that a truly long term solution to mankind’s woes does not depend on the concept of democracy as a governing paradigm.
It is not that I oppose democracy as an ideal, but how it has been, and is, manipulated by interest blocks to become something quite different. After all, in a democracy, what the majority or power blocks clamor for most often have little if anything to do with the “common good” concept, or the interests and well being of the minority.
Within a purely democratic system, where some kind of a majority establishes the rules of the game, someone has to lose their interests, which can be a good thing, but most of the time is bad for the minority. In a representative republic (democracy) these kinds of decisions at the governmental level are by some kind of majority and even if the populace is radically against the decisions, it is still implemented. Witness the popular opposition to Buskies bail out of the banks and financial services, or the popular uprising against the open boarder with Mexico or the objections to NAFTA or CAFTA. Simply put, those in the position of power and decision making “know better for what is good for us”, which has absolutely nothing to do with “majority rule” or any real concept of citizen participation in the decision making. This adulteration and denial of citizen participation is carried right down to the local levels of government. Our community has been fighting this crap for the 5 years we have been here. Ultimately, those with the power will find a way around objections and whatever legal difficulties are involved to pursue their agenda. The ultimate aim for citizen participation is to delay and limit the amount of damage they propagate on the society involved. This is far removed from any kind of democratic process that makes sense to me.
Again I emphasize, I do not have an intense opposition to any means for human societies decision on how to govern themselves as long as it contains and adheres to the concept of actual (not disguised) freedom of the citizenry to determine their own futures individually. It must contain the concept that “your freedom ends at the point of my nose” and visa versa. Which of course, is not what is or has been instituted in this world. All governments violate this in some form and to some extent, many to the real extremes.
My last question today I pose is how in hell can real freedom for people be realized for the long term and not just a generation or two?
I really wish I had a good workable answer for that. I assume it has a lot to do with a consensus of the population that freedom is important, desirable and achievable. I don’t see that consensus in our population at this time.
76 comments:
Well, between bouts of disgust and despair, I am having glimpses of some good happening. I agree with you that the politics-as-usual paradigm sucks. And, I'm also aware that the framers of the constitution we all rich, etc. But, I am also aware that the ideal of peace and freedom that the regular folks hold in their hearts as a genuine hope for their children is also real. Maybe the time just wasn't right until now. Maybe it has to get so bad that it cannot be tolerated any longer. Maybe before a caterpillar turns into a butterfly he has to get so sick of being a caterpillar that he is willing to come all unglued rather than continue as a worm. Then, when things look their worst, he transforms into a butterfly. Maybe I'm delusional, but just maybe there is a wave of consciousness that is being caught by millions that could lead to creating a better reality for the ones who manage to survive the onslaught that looks like is beginning to happen on all fronts. The last 30 years have been ones of fear and loathing. Personally, I am sick of it. I want to shun the evil-doers and make a stand for awareness and loving kindness. I think things are going to get real messy, but maybe something wonderful will come of all this. We need to be our best to manifest our best. Maybe Universe is on our side.
That would be good.
aho
"Democracy begins to die when its elected representatives realize they can vote themselves a bigger piece of the pie."
I can't remember who said that, but it's true.
I'm not a big fan of Ron Paul, but check out Fox News getting caught in an outright lie:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaIh0GzMawE&feature=player_embedded
"My last question today I pose is how in hell can real freedom for people be realized for the long term and not just a generation or two?"
Well, inasmuch as the current sad drama has been playing in one iteration after another for most of recorded history, it appears the real answer is that we need a new kind of "people". Supposedly we've been making progress and evolving, yet the underlying difficulty keeps reasserting itself.
How bad does it have to get? Stay tuned.
Ras,
I also don't remember who formulated that phrase, but I remember it different. It was when the population realizes that it can vote in access to the public larder that democracy begins to fall.
McZilla,
While some disagree, it sure appears to me that humans are going to have to use their big brains for something else than figuring out how to screw other humans. We appear to have ample examples of those that don't do this. It sure appears to me that we have allowed all the wrong people into government, ie, those that are good at figuring out how to screw most of the rest of the population. The sick thing is we as a population do it over and over. I suspect that we have some really weird hard wired problems with our brains. Did the creator make some really tragic mistakes?
From Belgium
My Murph, it has taken you a long time to get round to that one, I think the pot must have been simmering so long the bottom has burned out. -)
I had a look at this sentence for a long time “The methodology operates on the fringe or outright outside of established legal framework and is often outright illegal.” I wanted to see if you were using democracy to define democracy but then decided you weren’t; a legal framework is not specific to democracy. I think the thing that was nagging at my mind was who it is that establishes the framework and whether the process of establishment is always democratic or equitable. How does the democratic system stand on something like fraud or blackmail? For most of the general citizenry it is punishable but for those not included in the term ‘general citizenry’, it is rewarded.
On your point 4 running into point 5; It really doesn’t matter whether the elections are free and fair since once elected the representatives are not accountable to the citizenry. Okay, Nixon was impeached but Bush and Cheney were not. There is only one rule and one rule only to being a Congressman or a Senator and that is to do enough to get re-elected. Speeches to the faithful at party conventions are one thing but once in office election promises are on a very back burner to brown envelopes from K Street.
Here is one I can’t make my mind up on. Did you catch that little video from Brashcheck TV I put up on the last post about how the world works in two minutes? Robert Mugabe would not accept the sack of gold from the money men so they responded with sanctions causing hyper-inflation. Zimbabwe is so poor that it has hardly any citizens left now and those that have stayed want him out. Mugabe responds by buying votes from cronies. The World Bank wants him out so that a friendly (Faustian) face can be installed and lo and behold he lost the election and then said “Stuff democracy, I am not going to go”. The interesting question is who was the prime mover behind him loosing the election?
“Much speculation as to whether this was set up by the PTB and they will take advantage of it to further their agenda or is a genuine grass roots rebellion to get a “democracy” as a form of government for them to live under.”
I suppose it depends on whose version of history you like best and whether you believe destabilisation, to give it its old name, exists. For example, the much reviled “brutal” Shah of Iran was screwing the American oil companies on crude oil prices and using the money to do good things for the Iranian people. Sukarno in Indonesia was also looking after his people until Suharto toppled him and established the sweat shops mainly on behalf of the US fashion industry.
“How do you limit or eliminate the agendas and corruption from the formation of a new government?” Simple – you go for a system of direct democracy. This can be done in a modern complex society. A TV debate or opposing short videos or some other method of telling the issue is shown, after which the citizens have to press the green button on their remote control to vote for the motion or red to vote against the motion and this vote is recorded. How do you stop electronic fraud? There are no secret votes in a direct democracy so you print everyone’s name and address along with their vote and these can be inspected on the screen. Mind you, you will never get it passed!
“My last question today I pose is how in hell can real freedom for people be realized for the long term and not just a generation or two?” Freedom has rules too and you pick the ones you like at the beginning but models worth looking at for ideas are the Amish and the Cajuns.
Belgium,
You bring up good points. Indeed, who gets to determine the framework.
Your second point is right on. How do you hold politicians feet to the fire once elected? I think a heavily armed and knowledgeable citizenry helps a lot toward that.
Yes I watched that short video.
We know from documents that destabilization of countries is a model of operation for empires. Not a matter of belief. Some specific examples may or may not be true, but we do know that many countries have been interfered with, particularly by the U.S. in modern history. England sure as hell did it's share.
Problem with direct democracy is is in actuality a more sophisticated form of mob rule. The national attitude (the majority) in this country scares the shit out of me. I don't want them to have any more say so than they already have. They sure appear to me to be A bunch of blood thirsty, ignorant trite, spiteful, boorish, brutish people. I truly think that at this time in history, they are the majority. If the situation was reversed, direct democracy is ok. Plus, the computer is too easily managed, hacked to meet an agenda. Until it can be assured to not be happening, that would be just one more control by the elites.
I agree, freedom has some rules too. Do they actually serve the common good of the population is the question? Of course, then you have to talk about establishing what the "common good" is.
Again I hearken back to the novel "The Probability Broach" for ones man's picture of that.
WV sessi= sissy?
Problem with direct democracy is is in actuality a more sophisticated form of mob rule.
...which elects what present to be more sophisticated representatives of it to govern them. hell, just turn on cspan! they just don't all talk at once like on the news shows.
They sure appear to me to be A bunch of blood thirsty, ignorant trite, spiteful, boorish, brutish people. I truly think that at this time in history, they are the majority.
they are indeed. which is to say, we. idealization of authority creates its nemesis... the rebel. we all grew up in this manner so it exists in all of us. we're walking contradictions vulnerable to massive manipulation from all forms. vulnerable to authoritatian rule. vulnerable to mob rule. we're fucked comin and goin! ...p
P,
Taking your last part of your last paragraph and expounding a bit on it.
What you expressed is exactly the concern of the survivalists movement, retreating from any connection (as much as possible anyway)with all the negative aspects of society. Despite this doom and gloom retreat, it fails to take into account the, admittedly what appears as far and few, more positive aspects of a societies influence. That is, some form of collectivism and cooperation movement for common good. While it appears to me that this kind of movement at this time is an exceedingly small part of the population, it does exist and as hard times intensify I expect it to grow. The problem with this movement is that it can also degrade into exclusiveness, prejudice, various forms of hate, racism and outright violence against those "who are not with us and are therefore against us". I see that going on around us also.
Yup, we are fucked coming and going. sigh
From Belgium
Posted this, this afternoon, curious to see if it stays up; otherwise check your spam bin.
From Belgium
Murph :-) “We know from documents that destabilization of countries is a model of operation for empires. Not a matter of belief.” I thought you would have worked out what I was doing here, not everybody embraces that as fact so as Freeacre says, I was expressing my own truth as I see it and not being controversial.
Re direct democracy, my you sure threw all the adjectives out in a pile in the middle of the street, not that I disagree. I am sure you have seen news footage of a strike vote outside the factory gates. It is a strong man who raises his arm for the Against vote, kind of like living amongst the Klan I should imagine. I thought that in what I proposed about televising votes with names there would be sufficient numbers of nays to counter the threat of intimidation.
Re freedom and the common good, I think I will get an abandoned post out of archive and have a look at it again. In the meantime, I am busying myself with this.
http://www.bigheadpress.com/tpbtgn?page=0
SATS
Murph Fa - Check your spam bin
I don't see it either Murph. Money and power seems to always take the reigns eventually. Speaking of rains we're about to get some yet the sun is out and all the birdies are chirping. I just heard there's a flash flood warning around here and thought i could hear thunder in the distance. It's suppose to get here later this afternoon at around 3 or so. Chance of "funnel clouds" and "waterspouts". Oh boy. Take that market umbrella down already! And what's going on in Arkansas? 700 earthquakes? We had a pretty big one this a.m. in Baja about 225 miles SE of here, 5.1 or so. Have also noticed several quakes up Oregon coast way in recent days. It could be a shakey weekend. Our roof was leaking some last time - think we got it fixed we'll see tonight.
Getting back to Murph's Democracy post, we've all been wondering down here: What has,(besides poverty and hunger), fueled the rebellions in these strategic places around the world with such syncronisity? It appears suspect by several I've spoken with. Wouldn't it be nice if it was all natural and just a sign of the times where people are done with being bullyed and lied to. It could happen here. Hang in there Arkansas. with peace, love and happiness, mrs p
Ditto on P and Murphs evaluation of coming and going. Maybe we need a code, color or insignia on our clothing etc that instantly explains "we're with you guys" to avoid a mob beating. mrs p
lol... oh, dear. I retrieved you from the spam box and now you're in twice. Will delete one..
Hang in there, mrs. p. Don't hesitate to head for high ground! Will be thinking of you. Let us know how you are doing. Re: the quakes in Arkansas - wow. Hopefully, they are letting pressure off a little at a time. Cuz, if the whole thing blows, it would be a disaster of Biblical proportions. In addition to all the local damage, bridges across the Mississippi river would probably be taken out, and thereby a lot of the food and supplies going across the country. Electrical grid,postal service, pipelines, you name it, would all be impacted to one degree or another I would imagine.
wv: sheese!
From Belgium
Thanks Fa, I would be pleased if you would loose one of them. I am sure it was the K word, there was not much else in it.
SATS
HSW
As far as the various mass protesting going on in middle east and northern Africa, I still view it in its initial stages of the conflagrations as representing the release of pent up angst in the dis-advantaged masses who have suffered by their appraisal at the expense of the actions of their corrupt and harsh leaders. It seems like some of you here think that absolutely nothing occurs in this world without the PTB, CIA or whatever nefarious characters you might want to describe as being behind the occurance. I fully realize that the PTB of empires are always manuevering and utilizing any means at their disposal to try and alter events in the larger world to their benefit, irregardless of any considerations of it being moral or ethical, but they are not " everywhere ", and they do not control " everything ".
These powerful groups as much as they have their goals and their agendas also along the way of trying to manipulate the world scene create conditions that precipitate realities that they never planned on. The western PTB have for decades supported tyrants in the areas where these mass protest are going on, supplying them with aid and military hardware which in large measure has been used just to keep the tyrants national populations quelled. The biggest US arms deal ever was done recently with Saudi Arabia so the scumbag royals there could use this might of arms to keep any uprising in check, and also vastly important too, to defend the oil supply that Saudi Arabia sends to the western powers. The US puts up the facade that they support democracy, and yet support again and again Dictators and Tyrants all over the world. Of course this reality is not lost on the negatively affected populations living in these countries.
It seems some of you here view the mass protest as being a completely controlled state of affairs by the PTB. I think they are surely trying to manage these new realities related to the protest, but right now things have the potential of evolving over there in ways completely contrary to what the agenda's are for the PTB. Its like the newer protest in Bahrain. So some here may think the protest have been instigated by the PTB, CIA, whoever. Then did the same nefarious parties instigate the harsh Crackdown on the protesters? Maybe you think that both the protest and the crackdown are part of the " grand plan " of the PTB. I think in simpler terms the world situation is unraveling and these protest are a reflection of that reality. The PTB would rather have things be more stable over there with the Tyrants they pay and prop up doing what they are expected to do, help keep the flow of oil to the west, not stir up trouble with Isreal and whatever other agendas they are seeking. Now recent events have opened a Pandora's box of possibilities and really, no one knows just what will unfold for sure from here.
continued
HSW
Now a lot of these protesters are citing their goal in terms of seeking a democratic state of affairs, and its of course an ideal that will never be fully realized because there is simply too much competeing interest in the complex societies involved. Should they just stand down, go home, give up and just figure their lot is sealed and there is no sense fighting for living conditions for themselves that are more fair? It doesn't matter if they call it Democracy, or anything else, they are just trying to find some form of remedy for the hardships they are enduring. I don't fault them for that. They won't reach the ultimate idealized goal they may have in their ( in many cases ) young minds but at some point, people oppressed will try in what ways they deem necesary to create a better life for themselves and their children.
Now we have some very large protest in the US in some northern states regarding these in reality union busting moves by the republicans. Thom Hartman on Free Speech TV feels this revealed agenda has its roots in the recent Koch meetings, and seeks as its ultimate goal the overall weakening of the Democratic Party . To me I think it represents the beginning repercussions of an uprising/protesting in the US population who is also struggling with the realities of the unraveling of the overall world situation. The grand abundance afforded by seemingly unlimited and cheap hydrocarbon energy is now a thing of the past. I think from here on we can expect more and more uprising and protest from different location all over the world as the world situation continues to degrade. Its going to be a big free for all of angst, blaming and angry people as things get worse. In our complex societies there is such a diversity of points of view and interest that no system humanity could create will be able to manage the grand downfall we are in the initial stages of. In such increasingly harsh conditions ruthless behavior will become more and more prevalent and the struggles between people's of the world will become more chaotic. There is just no way around it.
I want to make clear that anything I express here is simply my point of view. I don't claim any absolutes in what I might suggest or in anything else in this world for that matter. I know we are all trying to appraise the ongoing complexities of the evolving world situation as best we individually can. We of course are not always going to come to the same conclusion on certain points. But I always consider all of your points of view, even if I may on this or that see things differently. Who's musings are more accurate as compared to the actual truth ( if that is something that exist ), maybe it will become more and more clear as we continue to discuss the ongoing events and issues :-)
HSW
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=23050
The Struggle for Self-Determination in the Arab World: The Alliance between Arab Dictators and Global Capital
.....The modern-day neo-colonial powers maintain control over Arab countries through the supervision of their economies and the control of their political leaders, who serve neo-colonial interests as vassals. Thus, 2011 is not only the start of the second wave of Arab revolt against foreign rule via imposed dictators and corrupt regimes, but it is also part of a broader struggle against neo-colonialism.......
Belgium,
First off, about the comic novel of "the Probability Broach" and the comments by the author that you linked to. I was quite surprised by some of his statements that the novel was a libertarian novel. I have always looked at the novel as a view into a society of anarchists. The friend that had recommended it to me originally saw it the same way. Maybe I should say that it is an extreme position of libertarianism. lol I for sure will send that link to my friend and see what he says.
murph... yup, i see that 'problem' too. but i prefer to see it as risk rather than a problem. it won't take survivalists long to figure out isolation is hardly sustainable when times come to force shift from talk to walk. this however will not necessarily reduce the risk.
when i say we're fucked comin and goin i mean we're fucked by our own inherited fuckedupedness from which we were brought and taught. it doesn't matter what splintered extreem. it doesn't matter if we attain power of authority, subvert for authority, acquiesce to authority, or rebel against it. it all has the same origins. as children we were all victims of it that became perpetrators of it as adults. and as adults we ARE authority behind closed doors... p
I concur with a lot of what you are saying HSW. The Powers That Be are becoming the Powers That Were. Yes, they have funneled the money into their own pockets and the military industrial complex has put us into endless wars and toppled governments and all that. But, now they are going to reap what they have sown. There comes a time when the younger people cannot find jobs and the prices of everything (especially food) have made it too difficult to put food on the table for their children. When the older ones have lost their savings, and can't afford to heat their homes, or go to the doctor, or eat - then, the stupid ruling class will have killed the geese that have been laying their golden eggs. This has happened in the Middle East and is spreading even to our ignorant and delusional shores. Charles Hugh Smith has a good analysis today on just how impossible it will be to service the debt that our children and theirs will be stifled with. When you have debt that rises exponentially, due to compounded interest and financial instruments that are compounded multiple times, and the wages to service that debt only increase linearly or not at all - well, that is a disaster that cannot be avoided.
The "Smartest Men in the Room" have outsmarted themselves. It might just come down to a simple slogan like "Shoot the Suits" and let the chips fall where they may.
The last card the elites may be left with is some huge catastrophe (like a dirty bomb) to divert the blame and to debilitate those in resistance. But, even then, they would be making another huge mistake. This country would be so weakened that just about any combination of all the countries who already hate us or to whom we owe big money, could easily roll into Wall St. and wipe the grins off the faces of the financial cannibals in suits.
I think that the elites have sold us on how big and powerful and scary they are. But, they are dumber, more inept, and more vulnerable than they look. That's what I think.
By the way, we watched "Dances With Wolves" again recently, and I was struck by the process of the tribe talking things over around the campfire. Everyone was free to express their opinion and they went to great lengths to not insult each other. I think we have managed over the years to hold to this ideal in our conversations around our cyber campfire, and I am proud of us. I hope that this will become the norm for relating to each other when the new paradigm is created. "Public process" could be improved a bunch.
Hotsprings;
Much of what you say has the ring of truth. Surely, the urge to rise up against intolerable oppression becomes infectious as a square of it's visible success. It is entirely possible grassroots protest erupts spontaneously, without foreign agitation. We may see our own brand displayed here in this country before too long.
One reason some think the troubles in the Middle East are happening as they are stems from writings made be an influential mason named Albert Pike, in the 1870's, in which he explained how the world was going to experience three world wars. His descriptions were beyond prescient. The third war would involve the Arab muslim countries against Israel, and lead to the mutual destruction of the major warring parties, after which the world would be exhausted and ripe for the NWO takeover. Check it out.
http://endrtimes.blogspot.com/2007/06/albert-pikes-letter-to-guisseppe.html
On the other hand, there are those who say that we will know the end days when we enter a time when no one soul controls another. For this to occur, it would seem, our conditioned, unquestioned acceptance of authority must be acknowledged and challenged, replaced with an awareness that, ultimately our covenant is with our Creator, and to Hell with the State.
-rp
wv= anairchl!
FA, sheeshe, that was fantastc!
Mrs. P;
Re: "...Maybe we need a code, color or insignia on our clothing etc..."
How's about a trout tattoo?
Freeacre;
I've read recently there are 11 million empty houses across Murika, as a result of this orchestrated financial collapse. What happens if debtors simply repudiate their debts? Already judges and sheriffs are loathe to carry out evictions. When the trickle grows to a torrent, and then to a deluge, the banks will be washed away.
-rp
rp - sheese and anaircl for word verifications??? Maybe our computers are making their own comments! Yikes!
As for the badge or symbol - I was going to suggest the same thing! A trout! Perfect! That's why I got the trout tattoo in the first place. After seeing Shindler's List, I decided that if I was ever rounded up, I wanted to be put in with the "Trout People." That's why it's on my inner arm, just above the wrist. Pike's not the only one who is prescient... ha!
From Belgium
Hi HSW, I just wanted to say that we are not even close to being ideological advisories, I actually agree with 95% of what you say but as I see it, different outlooks or standpoints on an issue are a good thing. You know, if everybody sees things the same way then there is a possibility that they will all be wrong together. I also think it is important to keep these different viewpoints in broad terms and not to let them degenerate into tedious minutia. I think I have said before that groups with similar outlooks have more issues with each other than those with opposing outlooks. For instance Communists and Trotskyites are greater advisories than either of them with the fascists. Similarly with the Anglicans and the Presbyterians with the Catholics (mix any two groups with a third). I am not going to do a point by pointer, all I will say is that it is not a bad principle if you look for the best but prepare for the worst or at least to try to be aware of what the worst might be. All you can do after that is to call it like you see it.
Jeez Freeacre, you have trumped me with a trout tattoo and there was me going to suggest a six pointed star,-)
Rp re the Pike letter to Mazzini, after considering this, I believe it was a bit of mischievousness wrongly attributed to Pike and more recently reproduced on the 3 World Wars site. I had a discussion about this with a dyed in the wool mason on another blog. This lady is very familiar with the works of Pike who was a 33° mason, particularly with the nearest thing the masons have to a Bible which is Pikes Morals and Dogma. She asserts that that the Mazzini letter is in a totally different style to that of Pike and expresses different views. The person who ‘discovered’ the letter (whose name I can’t remember) says he made a word for word copy of a document which was on display for a couple of months in the British Museum. The, then curator of the British Museum asserts categorically that no such letter from Pike to Mazzini was ever in the museums possession and therefore could not have been on display. What was on display at the time in question was the Victor E Marsden translation of the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion which does express such views. It looks as if a précis was made of this and then mischievously attributed to Pike. From time to time over the past year I have thought of doing a post about the Protocols but every time I find it too daunting a challenge. Apart from the difficulty of the subject matter there is the difficulty of condensing such a detailed piece into a few thousand words. Just as the word conspiracy is usually followed by the word theory so the specific word Protocols is usually followed by the word forgery but it only the Jews who have denounced them as such. Most others, including myself have no such opinion. The final remaining question is why would the Zionists want to bring about the destruction of Israel? I guess this is something for them to know and for the rest of us to speculate about.
For those who want to have at look at the Protocols, they can be found here.
http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-references-protocols-full-text-folder.html
FB
Freeacre / Murph I must be the most controversial contributor you have. Can I ask you to go on another fishing trip in your spam box.
Thanks
Yup, this morning found a comment in the spam box. Told the stupid filter that it was not spam. sigh.
HSW
Thanks for you thoughts Freeacre, RP and Belgium :-) In sharing my own thinking here at the Trout Clan I do always endeavor to express my own particular view in a way that does not show a disrespect for others, and I think all of you have done the same too. As Freeacre brought up, the idea of not being insulting to others opinions is an important aspect of our discussions, even as it is only natural that different views of particulars will always occur.
On another subject, I like the Trout as a symbol of our Clan. It reminds me of good times fishing with my Dad in the High Sierras of central California. In one place we used to go to with our Toyota Land Cruiser near Monanche Meadows ( spelling? ) we fished for Golden Trout which are especially beautiful fish :-)
I am not one to tattoo my body but maybe Freeacree could do a nice closeup photo of her Trout tattoo and those interested could send for a copy paying any fee to cover the cost. I'd put that in a nice frame in a special spot in my bedroom to remind me of all of you good folks! Just an idea :-) Or maybe some talented person could do a painting of some sort of a trout and the same idea I mention above could be applied ( a picture of it could be available ).
Regarding those Protocols of Zion, my brother Dane brought that to my attention some time ago. I googled it and read some on it. Some feel there is something to it, and other say its made up. In this crazy world and all that goes on I really don't know one way or another what to make of it but do consider it as possible.
So many nefarious and ill minded players acting out their various agendas of negative deeds it just boggles the mind really. Its all daunting when added up together and I can completely understand why many are depressed about it all. For me I try as best I can to follow a path of living the simple life, knowing that most all of what goes on in the larger world is completely beyond my control.
I have a definite interest in seeking to understand better the larger picture, but have no illusions that I can really alter the course of larger events. In our own local lives there are certainly things we can do to make our situation better, to one degree or another. Seeking to live a simpler life is contrary to so much of what we see going on around us. But for me, it represents the only path that makes sense as we move into the precarious future before us.
Moving on, I see there is new info in some Wikileaks releases that indicate from a Saudi Oil Industry insider that he feels that Saudi Arabia has very significantly overestimated the amounts of their oil reserves, by as much as %40 percent. I have seen similar information before this suggesting the same and I think this new info could be further confirmation of this.
Basically what this info could represent is significant and more imminent world oil production declines sooner than any energy reporting agencies like the IEA are even projecting at this point. The IEA just this year finally is coming around to a more realistic appraisal of the world energy outlook citing that the peak of conventional oil already happened in 2006.
So many changes unfolding in these times. Here is a website I go to regularly which has a great list of daily links to articles covering the many issues putting further pressure on the world situation and humanity:
http://www.ricefarmer.blogspot.com/
HSW,
Went to the site you linked to. Yup, some interesting articles on it, read some of them. Not a whole lot of new info in them, been reading much the same from other financial sites.
I found it interesting that Rice Farmer has his own blog, he did contribute a bunch to the Wilderness blog site.
One of the interesting things about him is that he very seldom ever offered a perspective or opinion on The Wilderness and even less today. He is primarily a filter for what circulates on the net. Much like LATOC was, or Cryptogon or a hundred other sites. I wonder if he will ever offer opinions or perspectives on what he puts up. I think it would be interesting to find out how much time he spends doing this.
Not a put down on the site. I am glad there are people that do this, cuts down on the amount of time I would have to spend finding the articles. But, sites like George Ure or Charles Smith offer perspectives and analysis's of what we see that I find even more interesting.
Belgium,
Been a while since I looked at "The Protocols". I find it interesting how similar it is to Machiavelli, Bernays, and Strauss.
Belgium
Yes Murph now that you mention it, I must admit I had never made that connection before. My view, which is opinion, is that they are what they say they are but who exactly the Elders are and how much influence they have is a mystery. Like you say, if this is true then their influence is all pervasive and hidden in plain view, like that of Bernays. What pushed me to the probably true side of the equation is the outcome of the predictions over time. They have a continually better hit rate than any New Year TV astrologer that I have ever seen so it would seem that world events are being stage managed rather than just evolving of their own course. Is this thing true about no Jews in WTC on 9/11? Like everybody else I have heard it but I don’t know for sure. Is there an ethnical veil of secret that is passed from mouth to mouth? If you are not in with the in crown then how would you know? If it is true that they are looking after their own then what are we to make of this prediction of the future destruction of Israel? Do the so called elders regard the ordinary Jew in a similar way to the Goyim, something to be used for a purpose or when the predicted battle is lost and won, is any bit of ground the same as any other bit of ground? So many questions and no real answers; of course the whole thing could be a phoney.
FB
My alluding to the Brian Ferry song should have been "In with the in crowd" not in with the in crown, as you probably worked out.
I don't buy all the stuff all over the web about the U.S. fomenting all the discord across the Middle East. If I may be frank, at the risk of offending someone, I think it's complete nonsense.
Why do I think this? Two reasons:
1.) It's unleashing lightning. Once you do that, you sit back and let it burn itself out. That's completely counter to the past MO of the State Department and DOD. They like to do things they can at least maintain the illusion of control over.
2.) More importantly, it's completely COUNTER to our interests. The U.S. absolutely, positively depends on continued stability in the Middle East for our own stability. If oil gets cut off, if it soars to $150 a barrel, if anything happens to put our access to Iraq and Afghanistan in jeopardy, we risk losing our own stability, as well as completely crashing the economy.
3.) If we had wanted to replace some of these dictators, we could have done it without theatrics. Half of these yahoos are our puppets anyway. "I'm sorry, but you will step down now or have an 'accident'."
I think these uprisings are genuine. People are fed up. They have been brutally oppressed and downtrodden for generations, and it finally got to the point where they just couldn't take it anywhere. Revolutions tend to spread like a virus.
That's just my two cents.
In other news, K and I may have figured out a way to get something built up on our land pretty soon -like this year. It will be pretty small at first, but expandable. More about that later.
From Belgium
Hi Ras, to deal with last things first, I am pleased you have a solution if albeit temporary one for your living accommodation at your new site. It really depends how much you are prepared to be inconvenienced in the interim. I have seen groups living fairly long term in tents on the beach. Water for toilet, washing and cooking is the major problem from all the others but the beachies went to toilets in bars and restaurants in the area and the rest they seemed to manage with. Maybe you can start with a garden shed and gradually move on from there. Anyway, having a plan is half the battle.
I have presented the Middle East situation as Uncle Sam derailing the train by fiddling with the minor controls but in truth it is a mixture of all sorts of things. I think that the problem of difficult harvests resulting in skyrocketing food prices can be laid at Monsanto’s door with a little help from our nearby star. And insomuch as Monsanto is a protected entity then by transference, the USA is indirectly responsible for a degree of the unrest. Also, I don’t think Uncle Sam hides the spoon when the pot starts to bubble. I would probably go so far as to say they are probably the ones who wrote the recipe down on the back of a envelope to make sure the dish came out the way they like it.
I guess that Sadam Husein was one of these dictators we could have replaced without theatrics. I read recently that Saudi Arabia oil has peaked and the Sheiks have overestimated their reserves by 40%. I don’t know if that is true but I read it recently. It is rapidly heading to be a spent force, not right away but sooner than expected. I think the real prize the USA is after is Iran and the rest is just moving the pieces around the board. Iran’s major oil fields are in the North West near the border with Turkey. If America can take them then they will stand at Russia’s gate and be able to threaten China’s oil supply – hence the SCO.
I know full well that this was not the thrust of your comment but just to demonstrate that the USA is not a benign entity and for no particular reason here is a list of some of the adventures it has been involved in since the end of WW ll – sometimes it has changed sides more times than Italy (that was a cheap shot).
US interventions since 1945
China 1945 - 51, France 1947, Marshall Islands 1946 - 58, India 1947 - 1970s, Greece 1947 - 49, Philippines 1945 - 53, Korea 1945 - 53, Albania 1949 - 53, Eastern Europe 1948 - 56, Germany 1950s, Iran 1953, Guatemala 1953 - 1990s, Costa Rica mid 1970s and 1970 - 71, Indonesia 1957 - 58, Haiti 1959, Western Europe 1950s - 1960s, British Guiana/Guyana 1953 - 64, Iraq 1958 - 63, Soviet Union 1940s - 1960s, Vietnam 1945 - 73, Cambodia 1955 - 73, Laos 1957 - 73, Thailand 1965 - 73, Ecuador 1960 - 63, The Congo/Zaire 1960 - 65 and 1977 - 78, France/Algeria 1960s, Brazil 1961 - 64, Peru 1965, Dominican Republic 1963 - 65, Cuba 1959 to present (Won missile crisis but failed to conquered country + Guantanamo), Indonesia 1965, Ghana 1966, Uruguay 1969 - 72, Chile 1964 - 73, Greece 1967 - 74, South Africa 1960s - 1980s, Bolivia 1964 - 75, Australia 1972 - 75, Iraq 1972 - 75, Portugal 1974 - 76, East Timor 1975 - 99, Angola 1975 - 1980s, Jamaica 1976, Honduras 1980, Nicaragua 1978 - 90, Philippines 1970s - 1990s, Seychelles 1979 - 81, South Yemen 1979 - 84, South Korea 1980, Chad 1981 - 82, Grenada 1979 - 83, Suriname 1982 - 84, Libya 1981 - 89, Fiji 1987, Panama 1989, Afghanistan 1979 - 92, El Salvador 1980 - 92, Haiti 1987 - 94, Bulgaria 1990 - 91, Albania 1991 - 92, Somalia 1993, Iraq 1990s, Peru 1990s - present, Mexico 1990s - present, Colombia 1990s - present, Yugoslavia 1995 - 99, Iraq 2003 -
US manipulation of elections since 1945
Philippines 1950s, Italy 1948 - 1970s, Lebanon 1950s, Indonesia 1955, Vietnam 1955, British Guiana/Guyana 1953 - 64, Japan 1958 - 1970s, Nepal 1959, Laos 1960, Brazil 1962, Dominican Republic 1962, Guatemala, Bolivia 1966, Chile 1964 - 70, Portugal 1974 - 5, Australia 1974 - 75, Jamaica 1976, Panama 1984 - 1989, Nicaragua 1984 - 1990, Haiti 1987 - 1988, Bulgaria 1990 - 91, Albania 1991 - 92, Russia 1996, Mongolia 1996, Bosnia 1998
Involved in overthrowing democratically elected governments in Iran 1953, Guatemala 1954, Congo 1960, Ecuador 1961, Bolivia 1964, Greece 1967, Fiji 1987 plus Hamas in Palestine.
Here's a link to a piece that may benefit this discussion.
http://www.puppet99.com/?p=126
-rp
In "Crossing the Rubicon," Ruppert does a pretty thorough job of substantiating his contention that 'the CIA is Wall St., Wall St. is the CIA.'
I think it behooves us to question who exactly is 'we' when that pronoun is used in conjunction with U.S. foreign policy.
As stated in the preface to the above referenced article on Islamic banking, the US Ninth Circuit has found that the Federal Reserve is a private enterprise.
Many serious analysts observing globalism think a cabal of wealthy and powerful satanists are implementing plans to institute the New World Order, including one world government, one world military and one unifying religion. Obviously, many obstacles stand in the way of this agenda. But many examples exist of world 'leaders,' (I use the term loosely here,) both pols and business people, actively engaged in programs to nullify or undercut said obstacles. Global population reduction is a prime exhibit. Hard to argue that officialdom is not complicit in this respect. After all, we all know our food and water and air, (all things our trusted alphabet agencies are supposedly mandated to protect,) have been compromised by multi-national corporations' greed, with little or no interference from regulatory bodies. We have Bill Gates unabashedly telling anyone who will listen how, through effective use of vaccines, 'we' can reduce world populations by as much as 20%. Kissinger, Rockefeller, Maurice Strong, Bill Gates, George Soros, they are all on board with dramatic population reduction. 'We' even have it recorded in stone, via the Georgia Guidestones.
Regarding turmoil in the Middle East, it is said the Rothschild Dynasty established Israel as it's own private fiefdom. It is also a given that not all "jews" are genetically related. All of the Israeli leadership, since the state's inception, has belonged to a group of European jews known as Ashkenazi. They descend from a race of pagans who inhabited the Black Sea region in 700 A.D., the Khazars. Judaism was foisted on them by their leaders, who wished to modernize, while maintaining the neutrality. Invading Mongol hordes drove these peoples to the west, into Ukraine and Poland. This is the origin of the jews immortalized in Fiddler On The Roof. Nothing semitic about these people.
cont. (rockpicker)
from above...
As was stated in both Pike's letter, and the Protocols, the first great war was needed to destroy the Russian monarchy. This was accomplished by jewish intellectuals, Bolsheviks, and the Rothschilds were behind it, financially. They replaced the Romanovs with a totalitarian regime, ( I assume, a small-scale model of what the Illuminati foresaw as the NWO, eventually,) that frightened the West so, that both American and European business interests, during the thirties, actively, if quietly, aided Hitler's fascist rise as a hoped-for check to this growing communist threat. Thus, we see financiers, like Prescott Bush, and industrialists, like Henry Ford, deeply involved with the early Nazi successes.
A fascinating story covering some elements of the times mentioned is to be heard here:
http://www.keepthetruthalive.com/2006/08/benjamin-h-freedman-1961-speech.html
and a written transcript here:
http://www.sweetliberty.org/issues/israel/freedman.htm
What 'we' have not been told about our own history might surprise you.
As regards the eventual destruction of Israel, I suggest the pragmatic satanists have no allegence to any particular race, creed or nation state, as their only admitted fealty is to their dark overlord. When Israel has served their purposes, they will burn it, with the slightest compunction.
I know, the satan thing sounds whacko, but read the letters to Henry Makow from Aloysius Fozdycke, an Australian self-proclaimed 'satanist' how belongs to the Alpha Lodge. His impudence is startling.
http://www.henrymakow.com/aloysius_james_fozdyke.html
-rockpicker
Rockpicker,
Got to admit that I have never seen stuff from this Freedman guy. That sure is a different take on history than I've seen before.
gotta admit, I find any so-called Satanic worshiper views completely delusional. And, I have no regard for Henry Makow and his masculinist paranoid crap either. Anybody can imagine the decline and have fears and dark thoughts about what it will be like when the grid goes down or the trucks stop. Heck, that is what we have been preparing for. But, reaching out, learning to share, being generous, etc. is what we need to do in response to hard times.
We don't need to listen to the insane ranting of fear and hate-filled cretins making abusive threats. It's the sort of batshit crazy disordered thinking that is just the other side of the coin from the fundamentalist's cruel and frightening legacy of sick and twisted spewage. It's the kind of shit that monsters scream at their children to frighten and control them into submission. These people just get off on horror. God only knows what evil befell them to warp them this way. I feel sorry for them, and I wish them to stay far away from me. And far away from the light of this campfire.
aho
Belgium, what we are planning is roughly the size of a garden shed, with multiple expansion points.
Regarding the list of U.S. interventions someone posted (I think it was Belgium or RP), I think our interventionism goes back lots further than that. Also, the only time on that list we used -or rather, tried to use -a popular uprising was in Cuba and look how THAT turned out.
Folks,
Here is a synopsis of a research report on GOM crops that should get your attention.
http://farmandranchfreedom.org/gmo-miscarriages
This one gives me the honest to god willies.
To deny the existence of Evil does nothing to change it, or to protect one from it. Willful ignorance provides only the illusion of comfort, while allowing Evil to metastasize.
The Franklin scandal, for instance.
http://franklinscandal.com/
It might be more comforting to assume, if any of this is true, that it's an isolated instance involving a relatively tiny minority of depraved individuals.
But then we start hearing the same types of stories surfacing all over the planet. Scotland, Italy, Utah. Tales involving human child sacrifice. People who have witnessed events. People who have participated. The same elements recur in testimony. It's just not talked about in polite company, nor is it exposed by the lamestream, so in essence, it's given the green light. In many cases, we're talking about perps who are lawyers, judges, law enforcement officers and legislators and magistrates. How is justice done under those circumstances?
I understand it's a painful subject, and I don't intend to dwell on it, but we should acknowledge there does exist a small, brave attempt to put voice to these allegations and expose what is claimed to be the abuse of hundreds of thousands worldwide.
If we don't look, we will never see.
Kubrick's "Eyes Wide Shut," and the rumored goings on at Bohemian Grove are only two examples of this organized deviancy.
It seems to me, if you want to end the darkness, you shine a light into it.
-rockpicker
Murph;
As well, when I first came across Freedman's speech, it blew me away. It helps to explain so much of world history leading up to the second world war.
Understanding how Israel came into being, and having an idea of who and where its leaders come from, helps to put Helen Thomas's comments in perspective. We are so brainwashed by the AIPAC-controlled pols and press, we almost can't hear the weeping of the true Middle East victims.
-rp
we should acknowledge there does exist a small, brave attempt to put voice to these allegations...
here's just one of those voices... http://ritualabuse.us/
which, btw, has been blacklisted by wiki... http://ritualabuse.us/ritualabuse/articles/ritualabuse-us-blacklisted-by-wikipedia/
one of the most blantant denials manifested in the early 90's as false memory syndrom.
with all due respect to the grand dame of the mother church of the trout clan campfire i'm afraid i have to come down on the side of rp's view here. and yes, i am afraid to do so. however, such rantings about it may be delusional but the 'it' is REAL. all too real. and, unfortunately, exists as the elephant in the middle of far too many living rooms. hopefully that's not the case here around the campfire. i don't suggest to dwell on it either. but we do need to call a spade a spade. so, unless otherwise prompted, this will be my only comment...
what we're seeing in the rantings of both sides of the coin are ancient imprints being played out in the name of the war between good and evil. a pissin contest as old as the universe still being waged today. i still contend the only way to win is to not play. that is resistance. engaging in the war is what empowers it. that, in turn, empowers evil. that and denial in its many forms. power is one thing. using it to over-power anything against its will is exactly what evil is all about. in doing so, good has been playing right into the hand of evil for far too long.
rp... i've heard you refer to the present and near future time as the untangling. i think you might find graham hancock's new book (his first novel) an interesting read... http://www.grahamhancock.com/entangled/
altered states of consciousness may not be so altered after all and the fiction of the novel may not be so far from the truth. in the lands of parallel realities and endless possibilities is there any such thing as fiction? we may be about to find out... p
I dunno. I admit that the whole issue of Satanism is a sore point with me. Over the years that I worked with teenagers, there were those kids whose parents condemned them as Satan worshipers who were not. It was the parents that were the crazies. and every one of them were fundamentalist whose churches drummed the fear of the devil into them. I don't give credence to the "power of darkness." I see darkness as an absence of light. I figure if there were a power of darkness, you would not be able to light a match in a dark stadium.
There is, however, error. And hatred and fear and cruelty. That is magnified when horrible people put their combined efforts into groups or clubs or organize into black arts "churches" and such. And, if they are rich and privileged they can (and do) get away with hideous crimes.
Maybe there are demons from different dimensions and things like that. But, I believe that we have dominion in the dimension into which we are born. No evil entity can operate here without being invited in. And, if we refuse to be afraid and empower them with our belief, I think they disappear into the nothingness from which they sprang. It is my hope that this is so, at least. So far, it has worked for me.
FedX has just delivered Graham Hancock's book, Entangled, and I am about to read it. I really respect Hancock and I am very curious as to what he has to say.
I will read the links and keep an open mind. But some things are just so horrific to me that it is very difficult. Perhaps I was killed as a witch in a previous life or something. Afterwards, I may need to take a ritual bath.
I am looking forward to reading the Freedman speech. Murphy says it's fascinating. There's so much going on now that it's hard to keep up.
Big 6.9 earthquake in New Zealand this evening.
Good luck on the project on your land, ras. Sounds exciting.
HSW
Murph, I think Rice Farmer does a good job of putting together a daily compilation of various articles. As you said there are numerous other sites that do the same type of thing. RF at his blog used to just make entries here and there where he expanded on certain topics and didn't have a compiled list like now, but then after FTW2 closed down and Ruppert moved on to his Collapsenet then around that time RF switched over to do the list of daily articles where he also makes short observations to some of these articles occasionally.
I actually would rather have the daily list than just occasional musings on some specific subject. There are myriad places where one can seek more expanded opinions and of course that has value too. Perhaps RF does not give more expanded postings on his thoughts because of his own lifestyle time constraints. Anyway I appreciate his efforts and value the info he puts up.
RAS I agree with the points you made in your recent post about causual factors as related to the uprisings. Regarding all of the ongoing unrest in Northern Africa and the Middle East, with all that has gone on with the various populations over there having to endure long term oppression from their ruthless leaders, and the added horrible acts perpetrated by the US Empire on lands over there, invasions, occupations, mass destruction of infrastructure and lives, actually I was supprised that something like what we see going on did not happen before now.
FA -thanks! We hope to start in a few weeks, but it will take all year to get it done.
HSW, I think the reason it didn't happen before now is because every time people tried to rise up over there the U.S. helped the dictators put them down in the name of 'stability'. Now the U.S. is too overstretched, overcommitted, and underfunded to do so. The Empire still has claws, but they are old and brittle.
fa... entangled is one of the bloodiest reads i've ever encountered and at the same time one of the most fascinating. hollywood, with its fascination for gore and gut spillin along with the paranormal in the wake of harry and avatar, will have a field day.
the term darkness, often associated with negativity, evil, demons, lucifer, and so on is a misnomer. darkness and negativity is what makes space for the light by opening to receive it. vibration is the operative dynamic.
on freedman. the speach is indeed fascinating. several points made there i've found validated in other sources and at the same time there's spin and twisting to support claims.
my mom was so good at using guilt to manipulate to get her needs met i used to think she was the mother of it too when i was growin up. not anymore. its anti-semitism.. p
I agree with Ras and Hots Springs, that a large factor for the current disruption in the Maghreb and Levant is due, on its face, to the intolerable oppression of U.S.-sponsored dictatorship, coupled with skyrocketing food prices. Under the circumstances, the contagion we're seeing seems perfectly predictable.
But I suggest there is a dynamic at play here that is less apparent, though equally real and important. It has to do with energy.
And I'm not talking fossil fuels, here. I mean cosmic energy, the electromagnetic input Earth is being bombarded with. NASA scientists and independent researchers agree, we're getting pummeled with a shitload of energy from both the sun and from outside the solar system. It's even effecting the orbits of satellites.
I just watched a youtube video replaying a History Channel piece on Goebekli Tepe, the site of buried standing stones discovered in south central Turkey. Archeologists excavating the site claim it dates to 12 thousand years ago. That puts us back to the end of the last glacial epoch.
Okay. Well, the implications of this find, taken with some of the evidence Graham Hancock and others present, must be considered nothing less than consciousness-altering. It changes everything, to understand that humankind's progress is not linear, as we have been taught, but cyclic, and that advanced civilizations have flourished here on Earth in the past, only to be wiped out and nearly forgotten. It seems a supreme irony that we are just realizing this, as the cycle prepares to repeat itself once again.
Here is a link to the Goebekli Tepe piece:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xo0ZkgqM1TE&feature=
I suggest you search GT, as there are better videos on what's been found, and what they currently think happened there. Some startling ideas are surfacing. For one thing, they claim this complex of ornately carved monoliths was created by a pre-agricultural society. Consider that for a moment.
And check out this guy from Bosnia talking about pyramids found all over the world.
http://www.forbiddenknowledgetv.com/videos/pyramids/pyramids-of-europe-interview-with-dr-sam-osmanagich-part-1.html
The pyramid he talks about at Cahokia, in southern Illinois, has a larger footprint than the Cheops Pyramid at Giza Plateau. The large Bosnian pyramid is over 700 ft. high, almost 300 ft. taller than Cheops. And, it's made of concrete blocks that are harder and less absorptive than the concrete we use today. So...
what we're starting to see is that the true accounts of historical catastrophism have been explained away to us as mere myth and fantastic legend, when in fact, the petroglyphs, the cave paintings, cuniform tablets, etc. are not imaginings, but rather accurate news reports.
It takes an intrepid and curious mind, like Graham Hancock and his wife, to search out and record the evidence of past civilizations standing in 300 ft. of sea water in places all over the planet. Where is academia on this. Scratching it's arse, and looking down it's Roman nose.
Freeacre turned me on to Susan Joy Rennison, and I believe she is someone we should all tune into. I've listened to a bit of her stuff, and I want to hear more.
http://www.susanrennison.com/
-rp
rp :-)
"How's about a trout tattoo?"
This brought a big smile to my face! What a great idea. The trout clan tattoo. Thing with tattoos they're always there whereas a t-shirt might not be available at the moment.
So sad the banks and dirtbags like Goldman Sachs gave everybody a good raking by stealing their pensions and got away with it and now the Repub PTB wants to take it out on the workers by taking away their bargining rights. If it weren't for unions we'd all still be working 15 hours a day in filthy conditions. mrs p
Oh wow, I just figured out what "wv" stands for. And yes I have definately noticed many of the "wv's" making statements. I thought it was just me imagining things. I'll pay more attention now. It's a whole new language and somtimes backwards.
mrs p
wv=husiv?
Oh, man. Take a look at the videos down a few stories on cryptogon.com of the damage in Christchurch, NZ. My heart goes out to those folks. Geez, NZ and Australia have really been slammed this year. Amazing. Starting to look like that cyclic devastation of civilizations thing... those pyramids in Bulgaria and monoliths in Turkey from people in pre-history that we know NOTHING about are just mind-boggling. I swear, the older I get, the less I know about everything. I'll try to calm down about the "darkness" thing, p., and see it as a "space for light."
Don'tcha just hate it when you think you might have to change every fucking thing you have ever told yourself about what is or has been going on? and, then, you get it all re-figured and you find out that that is also wrong? Gaaaaaaaah! Guess I live in soup of mystery.
R we coming out of the "Kali" yuga
where civilization degenerates?
check it out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kali_Yuga
wv: It's: sycligh
(recylcing universe)
mrs p
Oh, yeah, Rockpicker. I think you are right about the cosmic energy rays. I think things are and will happen that we simply can't even imagine yet. May change fundamental concepts of reality, time lines, parallel worlds and godknowswhatall. Puts a new spin on "the end of the world as we knew it," eh?
wv: achin Like, "my head is achin."
Horrible in Christchurch, NZ. It could happen here. We're pausing and praying in our hearts for those folks down there.
I'm with you FA, on the knowing and understanding,...it's a crazy world of unknown wonderment and mystery,... gaaaah! Heading towards the suggested reading sites. mrs p
wv: mists
From Belgium
Freeacre, the World is full of truly vile things you would not want to talk about in polite conversation, especially if you had family around the dinner table. But unfortunately as much as we try to shy away from them they are demons which have to be confronted. If we choose not to know about them then we have no chance. If we are at least aware of them we can try to shine a light into dark corners or at least give the subject enough exposure to make it uncomfortable for the those directly involved. Unfortunately there are only a handful of people who are prepared to write about such stuff even in the internet alternative sites but even since it was brought to my attention more rocks are being overturned. I can’t now remember if it was in After Dutroux or in Bryce Taylor’s Thanks for the Memories where stories are told of kidnapped children at aristocracy attended orgies that are given the choice of killing other children there for the sexual gratification of their elders and betters or taking their place as the victim. I don’t know whether it is worse to deliberately take away a child’s innocence or to take away an adult’s security blanket of everything they regard as normal.
Anyway, to pick p up on a small point, there is no this side or that side to come down on, we say our personal truth and carry on forward as a group. Light and darkness has been mentioned and my interpretation of this analogy is to compare it with knowing and unknowing. One person can not know everything which is why a group is stronger. On the other hand there are some things that are so shocking you may choose not to know them but that is another thing.
Rp
You mentioned the Franklin Case but just prior to that there was the McMartin Preschool Case and just after it the news of the Finders of Tallahassee broke. There was the inappropriately named Dutroux Case in Belgium which went right up the aristocracy and minor Royalty. Another big one was the Casa Pia scandal in Portugal but these are the bits of the iceberg that you can see and I am sure it goes much wider than this. The UK Column quoted a newspaper story linking ex UK PM Gordon Brown with the Dumblane massacre. The story goes that Gordon liked little children – quite a lot particularly one class at that particular school. When his political carrier took off and he was named heir apparent to Tony Blair a mind control victim was sent around to make the problem of wagging tongues go away. I don’t know if this story is true but it was around the time of his political ascendency that he took a wife for cosmetic purposes.
As for the ones who have such inclinations, I can only refer to my local big city. It is sure not in everybody’s face but the social workers who sit behind plate glass windows and bask in the reflected glow of purple fluorescent lights are tucked away in the harbour area. The exclusive private clubs are mostly within a short walking distance of the Justice Palace.
Murph
I caught the Ben Friedman speech and I must say the words The Balfour Declaration sounded familiar although I didn’t know anything about it. That was sure a revelation to me too. Now a lot of gaps are filled in. On the strength of that interview I went digging deeper into the subject and I found a site called the Institute for Historical Review. This is a well researched but sprawling site dealing with all aspects of lesser known recent history. Robert John has used Friedman’s speech as a starting point for an in depth review of the subject. It is quite long and I have not read it out yet, I am only part way through. I tend to have the conflicting trends enthusiasm going on at the same time as brain fade from trying to force too much through the filter at one go so sometimes I have to take a break from it.
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v06/v06p389_John.html
From Belgium
I hate to become a bore but can I ask you guys to go fishing for me again - three times on this post alone - sigh.
BTW I forgot to mention how great those pictures are Freeacre.
I love this guy's stuff, usually. Here's some good footage of Avebury, England, and more about the Kali Yuga.
-rp
Oops. My bad.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdohc6KFj_4
-rp
levitation and trasnport via sound vibration coupled with a fine tuned intent. yup, thats my take on it.
wiki describes the henge construction at avebury as a "non-essential activity". ha! dumb asses!! if stonehenge were a dime avebury would be a silver dollar flattened to twice its size between a hard rail and the wheel of an iron horse. its huge. the little hamlet of avebury sits inside the henge. its an awesome place. liz and i had the fortune to check it out while in glastonbury and london shortly after we got married. we had the inspiration but not the buckos. a last minute $200 special atl to london was all it took to make the dream come true. glastonbury is the stuff of king arthur and to where joe of aramathea settled. supposedly with the holy grail in the form of 2 cruets holding the blood and sweat of the christ collected as he hung from the cross. myth! there he built the first christian church of the west purportedly on the tor. probably true except for the tor part. i doubt the locals let him any where near it at first. it was a place of wiccan ritual at the time. today its one of the foremost pilgramages on the planet for new agers, esoteric wanderers, goddess worshipers, wiccans, pangans, and traditional religionists alike. all the former hang out at the white well while the latter one heads for the red well across the street.
anyway, armed with coffee and biscuits we left heathrow in a rental right after landing about 6 in the morn. jet lagged and sleepy eyed we just headed west in the general direction of glastonbury figuring we'd zoom in somewhere to check a map when we got closer. as the rising sun chased us westward through the country side converstaion turned to stonehenge and avebury. we knew stonehenge was near glastonbury but had no idea where or what direction even. we didn't even know where glastonbury was either except west. so we were talking about stonehenge as we motored up a slow rising hill and as we crested, bam! there it was, unmistakable, in the distance about a mile hence. suddenly it was as if we'd landed on another planet or something otherworldly except for the disturbing familarity. maybe it was the lack of sleep or the anticipation or excitment of the coming days but both of us were overcome by a feeling of deja vu. welcome to wiltshire 4000 years in the past. surreal!
interesting story about the tor... while there we explored the cave at the base of the tor from which flows the white well. at the time it housed a cafe and new age gift shop. cattle and sheep pasture on the tor these days. the stone tower remants of st michaels church sit at the apex like a sentury guarding the town. legend has it the tor was the entrance to the underworld back in the day of the local celts who shared the land and mors with the fae. we were having a chat over coffee w/the proprietor who told us that shortly after he moved there he was sitting on his front porch one eve around dusk and looking up at the tor. suddenly a ram rose up on its hind legs, turned into gwyn ap nudd, leapt into the side of the stone tower and disappeared. http://www.glastonburytor.org.uk/ ...p
Cool, P.
-rp
the real purpose of this comment is the vid link at the end. but first some back story on the sacred white and the red springs of glastonbury... they are neighbors. there are many claims that the red flows from the tor but this is not true. the white, crystal clear and sweet with calcium, springs from the base of the tor while the red (aka chalice well), metallic tasting and running red from high iron content, springs from the base of a neighboring hill less than 100 yards distant. legend has it the white is as old as antiquity while the red sprang from the spot where joe of a buried the cruets. this latter legend is not true either and is another christian hijacking. its origins are in antiquity along with the white well and mother earth herself. the red spring was first developed into a healing pool by the druids. the waters from both springs have been regarded for millennium as having energetic healing properties. there was a time when they existed with no clear separation and their waters flowed toward one another unabated and joined to flow as one. as if bonding in heart.
today well lane separates them as if a literal manifestation of the split between the christians and the pagan/wiccan/druid (WPD), etc. this gap is nearly as old as christianity with the christians hell bent on conversion of the other side while the other continues to welcome the christian to worship and believe as is wont. even if they did throw the subservient feminine in the cold ditch and stomp on her. they have a hard time of this in glastonbury! indeed, the PWD view the red as the feminine and the tor as the masculine. however, visit the place with eyes wide open and its clear the red has been hijacked by the christians. its a beautiful place in presentation. as pristine and well kept as any of the worlds finest gardens or manicured mcmansion lawns. admission is charged to tour. while we were there standing off at a bit of distance a woman and her young daughter were sitting at the well head. as the little girl was peering down through the grate into the depths of the well she squealed and pointed with great delight and excitement... mommy, mommy, there's a fairie down there! i suspect the WPD's get a quiet satisfaction knowing the waters still join albeit in the dirty gutter of well lane. we collected from both into an indigo bottle used as packaging for a local soda by the same name. we use these waters in ceremony and still have a bit of stash 11 years later.
across the street at the base of the tor is the rock cave-like grotto of the white spring and the proprietor mentioned earlier and his wife lisa. we were quite taken by the soft spoken man with the gentle eyes who exuded a quiet humility, sincerity and integrity from every pore of his being to the point that we had no doubt about his story of gwyn ap nudd. strange balls of colored light over the tor have been seen and documented. as we sat over coffee and tea he told us how they'd come to visit glastonbury a couple years earlier and found their purpose in the reclamation of the rock well house as a temple dedicated to the spirit of the white spring. they'd found it a graffitied, unkempt hellhole of a hang out for losers, loners, loons, weirdoes, homies, misfits, low lifes, derelicts, drug orgies, grunge, mano-a-mono attack. owned by an absentee who was happy to sell. in true temple fashion no one is charged or paid. the keepers and custodians, artisans, craftsmen, give freely of their time toward the reclamation... http://www.whitespring.org.uk/
though its clear the keepers of chalice well today are under the influence of papal dogma which hold the feminine as subserviant, its roots are anything but and, outside the control of that dogma, lay its true purpose and meaning... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kb4xy754Gmc&feature=related
Belgium,
Indeed that site "Institute of Historical Review" is interesting and huge. It would take me months to go through it to any extent.
Concerning that speech by Freedman. There are interesting aspects to it, but some gaping holes too. It would take an enormous amount of time to check out his version of the beginnings of the Jewish race/society.
With the tremendous amount of information/propaganda/bull shit available on the web, one has to choose what to focus attention on and try and determine what the truth of some matter really is, and then you got the problem of whose information/context was the reality at the time. The manipulation of information by various interest groups is astounding.
I'm finding the more I look into any subject in an attempt to learn about it the less I actually know about it. Just what academic/expert has the key on any single subject.
There are day where I throw my hands in the air and declare that it is all bull shit anyway. Even my own experiential data is suspect because it is subject to internal interpretation from my personal paradigms.
I'm feeling pretty negative today.
Ach, aye, P.
Now I can go take trowel in hand and contemplate the many mysterious new regions you have opened me into. Thanks for that.
Here's a back-at-ya.
-rockpicker
After An Ice Storm On The Allegheny Plateau
Beyond the sumac tangle, where a thinning father saws,
a grandmother shagbark hickory sags with loss.
Split limbs scrape like clay shards tied in wind. Wind
the sawyer knows and ice conspire some bad years
to open crowns and let a good son in. He revs
his Stihl. Green pulp sprays from kerfs and sticks
to boots, consecrating snow like scattered ash.
You stand a distance off and dream the taut trunk limber.
Remember a girl, smart, green as whip? You loved her.
This ancient snag, lithe in youth, was left by men
long dead for shade. You like to think she chose her ground,
bolted free of gloom so deep a bright moon hurt, and ran,
breaching walls to reach this mid-field stance. You're
confused. The figure you remember kept running.
Some bad years snap the stoutest dreams like twigs.
Cures fail. Stunned villagers inter a shining son.
A wife says 'leave.' Once each life thin fathers
flesh-out plans to restack stones, slash brush
and honour the old delineations. Buck the shattered way
life doesn't go. Toss rounds to boys who still trust dreams
and cart your grief like cordwood home in snow.
After An Ice Storm On The Allegheny Plateau
Beyond the sumac tangle, where a thinning father saws,
a grandmother shagbark hickory sags with loss.
Split limbs scrape like clay shards tied in wind. Wind
the sawyer knows and ice conspire some bad years
to open crowns and let a good son in. He revs
his Stihl. Green pulp sprays from kerfs and sticks
to boots, consecrating snow like scattered ash.
You stand a distance off and dream the taut trunk limber.
Remember a girl, smart, green as whip? You loved her.
This ancient snag, lithe in youth, was left by men
long dead for shade. You like to think she chose her ground,
bolted free of gloom so deep a bright moon hurt, and ran,
breaching walls to reach this mid-field stance. You're
confused. The figure you remember kept running.
Some bad years snap the stoutest dreams like twigs.
Cures fail. Stunned villagers inter a shining son.
A wife says 'leave.' Once each life thin fathers
flesh-out plans to restack stones, slash brush
and honour the old delineations. Buck the shattered way
life doesn't go. Toss rounds to boys who still trust dreams
and cart your grief like cordwood home in snow.
Geez, I should think once woulda been enuf.
-rp
nah... for stuff that good, twice is just a good start!
john prine put it this way...
she`s got the mind of a child
and a body peakin' over the hill
well, she would if she could
and she should but nobody will
with her nails painted red
and her hair so unnaturally curled
well I think that she may be
the oldest baby in the world
she`s tasted the night life
but it`s left her with nothin' but hunger
and all the available men seem to think
that they want something younger
youth is a costume
and the beauty within lies unfurled
well i think that she may be
the oldest baby in the world
fast horses win races
royal flushes beat aces
and everyone`s playin' to keep
so let`s turn out the lights
and rock that old baby to sleep
she loves the sound of the rain
but you know, she`s still afraid of the thunder
she keeps a head full of hope
and a heart that`s still filled with wonder
she may look like an ole woman
but she`s still somebody`s little girl
and i think that she may be
the oldest baby in the world
yes, I think that she may be
the oldest baby in the world
Jeez! You guys are giving me a morning full of goosebumps. Thank you so much. Maybe I'll go out and hang some jewelry on the foliage outside. I think they and faerie folk like it. Time for a little magic...
FB
Freeacre, personally I think you should do it; adornments just compete for attention with the true beauty that would otherwise lie in the shadows. And magic? You don’t need any more than you already have. Did I tell you that one of Chris’s pastimes is dallying in front of jewellery shop windows and I always tell her the same thing, that she is worth more than all of this cheap costume crap she keeps looking at but unfortunately I can’t afford to buy her what she is really worth. I thought that one up all by myself! She doesn’t know whether to be pleased or angry with me, I suppose it depends on how much sincerity I can wring into it ;-)
FB
Hey RAS, you were involved in college until fairly recently I believe. Any thoughts on this one that I found on Poor Richards Blog.
http://poorrichards-blog.blogspot.com/2010/12/16-shocking-facts-about-student-loan_23.html
Murph
I really sympathise with your last comment. On one side there is the desire/need to be informed but then you run into information overload. You know sometimes you are being sold a bill of goods but it is not possible to check original sources on everything so you become selective and fall back on stroking your prejudices. At the same time it is consuming so much of your life… Chris and me have free bus passes for the whole of Belgium and special deals on the trains so when the weather is good we are off usually somewhere we haven’t been before. Lately we have been doing some of the Dutch border towns. We have to pay from the border onwards but it is not so much. But after a while I start to miss the computer again and then it starts over.
VW scull
Thanks for the pictures, FA. They bring back fond memories. Wish we could move to the OR coast -although, since I've been living in sunny locals for the past decade or more, I'm not sure I could do the 6 months of rain, clouds and fog anymore. Kinda like that sunlight.
Are humans capable of living in a true democracy -or even a true republic? As long as there is envy and ambition to acquire more stuff than the next person, I seriously doubt the human species will evolve to a higher level of existance. We're just way too fucked-up.
Oh, and the more I read the more I get these, "Danger, danger Will Robinson!" information overload warnings in cranium. So, I was thinking on cutting back.
Yep, I think I'll just bang on my hang drum and drink my beer...
and wait for the doom.
"What's a mutherfucker to do?" right?
-Randy
Here's someone with a plan. It's a comment posted to an article by Gordon Duff, in which the theory of nukes being used at the WTC is discussed.
comment:
" Munkle says:
February 23, 2011 at 5:15 pm
All this conjecture is leading in too many directions and making us look like asses. This could be a false flag plan to keep us guessing forever. Real Truthers only want one thing now, not more talk of “mini-nukes”: a prosecution plan which stands a chance of succeeding. Gordon himself says we are at 60-80 percent critical mass in public opinion. So why aren’t you focusing on prosecution? I don’t enjoy speculating endlessly about 911. I’ve done the research and I’ve seen enough. Now I want to see someone on a witness stand.
Gordon I beg you to use your considerable influence and following for this scenario, which will certainly catch on to others. Otherwise we are just playing with ourselves, and that lost its fun in junior high.
Start with the easiest to prove charges and move up to the harder to prove charges, just like you bust a mafia. This will all start with one VFW post issuing a call for their local prosecutor to convene a grand jury to determine if there is evidence that Rudy Giuliani committed felony destruction of evidence. That’s one thing that is open and shut. In any county in which a victim of 911 could claim residency, the effects doctrine can be cited to establish jurisdiction. It’s old law. If you shoot my constituent from Oklahoma in a robbery in Texas, I can haul you into my courtroom in Oklahoma.
The VFW or American Legion post should issue its call to the local TV news media, which is not as bought out as the national and will come to see what all the fuss is about. That Youtube goes viral and turns into a national story, and other posts get the idea and do the same thing.
There are probably multiple 911 victims from every state in the union, so state DAs could get into the act. This has to be done on a state level. The congresscritters and DOJ will never do it, ever. The cabal has the child porn goods on all of them.
Destruction of the evidence is open and shut. Wave 10 years jail time in front of Rudy, he starts singing like a canary, and we move up the food chain just as RICO was intended.
The Egyptians and Libyans were, and are, getting slaughtered in the streets to win their freedom. We sit like slaves for lack of one courageous veterans post to get the ball rolling (as Dr. Sabrosky has outlined.) WTF is wrong with this picture? I’m tired of jerking off about mini-nukes versus thermite. We’ve come as far as we are going to go without sitting people down under oath and telling us what they saw or knew, or going to jail for not doing so."
article url:
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/02/19/gordon-duff-911-and-the-two-stage-khalezov-effect/
note: "the cabal has the child porn goods on all of them."
-rp
http://houston.indymedia.org/news/2006/10/53584.php
Anybody remember hearing anything about this?
-rp
FB
Nope but it seems the longer we wait, the more we learn. Not one of Rummys better successes, still it will be good for Halliburton.
Just in case anyone is wondering why Andre Heath hasn't posted any updates in a long time on thealienproject, it's because his wife has been in low level labor for a week in anticipation of the birth of their first child. So, they are just a tad pre-occupied for now. Wish them all the best.
Folks,
I have been hammering at the problems with the U.S. constitution and how it was adopted periodically for some time now. There is lots of information out there on this subject. The reality of the constitutional convention and how the document was adopted is not a secrete, it was framed and adopted by the then elitist classes for their benefit.
Here is another article on the subject that is worth reading.
http://cyberjournal.org/authors/fresia/c3.shtml
Post a Comment