Monday, November 5, 2007

Today we have another post from Spirit Across The Sea, (AKA Belgium.) I think we might consider voting Belgium in as the site historian and researcher. Murph

The Task of Condi Rice in Turkey

A Step in the Continuance of Empire Toward its Destination

A follow up from Murph’s previous post-- by Belgium.

The homogeneous community of Kurds didn’t fall out as lucky as that of the Jews in the lottery of life and so they have no national homeland of their own. The Diaspora of Kurds lies across several national boundaries and each country regards them differently. Generally, although they have lived under Arab rule since the 7th century they see the West offering more advantages, much to the chagrin of some of the Arab nations where they live. They have enough clout to be able to make themselves a nuisance to some of the nations whose territory they occupy and this is used mischievously by some to make alliances and cause divisions.

The countries and groups in play in this struggle for a Kurdish homeland and national identity are: the Kurds themselves; Turkey; Iran; Iraq; Israel and the USA. There is minor involvement or secondary support to some of the primary group members from Armenia; Azerbaijan; Syria and Saudi Arabia. Each of these has its own agenda and is trying to either play up or play down the situation to its own advantage. Let us have a look at them in turn and see what each is trying to get out of the situation.

The Kurds

The traditional homeland of the Kurds was overrun by the Seljuk Turks, the Mongols and the Safavid dynasty during the seventh century, which in the 13th century gave way to the Ottoman Empire. After this in turn collapsed at the end of WW1 the Treaty of Sèvres proposed an autonomous homeland for the Kurds but this treaty was never ratified. Instead it was replaced by the Treaty of Lausanne, which no longer mandated Turkey to grant autonomy for the Kurds and whose traditional lands are designated as a ‘region’ crossing the borders of Turkey, Iraq and Syria. These have now expanded into parts of Iran, Armenia and Azerbaijan. Over the years the Kurds have been on the losing end of many skirmishes uprisings and revolts but generally giving continued headaches to their host countries. In 1946 Mustafa Barzani founded the Kurdistan Democratic Party (KDP) dedicated to the creation of an independent Kurdistan. This quarrelsome state of picking one nation off against another continued until in 1970 the Government of Iraq granted the Iraqi Kurds some self-rule but excluded the oil rich Kurdish region of Kirkuk. Another Kurdish uprising was then put down. In 1975, Jalal Talibani (Uncle Jalal) the then leader of the KDP left to found the rival Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK) and the infighting between the two groups gave the host countries some temporary respite.

Meanwhile in Turkey, Abdullah Ocalan, with others, founded the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) dedicated towards Independence for Turkish Kurds. In 1984 a PKK uprising was put down. In a separate campaign Iraq slaughtered thousands of Kurds and uprooted about 1.5 million from their homes for supporting Iran during the Iran / Iraq war which in turn caused a mass emigration into Turkey. Those who stayed behind had a seven year grumbling stand off with Saddam Hussein until, encouraged but not overly supported by the USA, they again rebel. They were harshly crushed whilst the UN sat on its hands and looked the other way. Eventually the famous No Fly zone was established which gaves virtual autonomy and breathing space to the regions 3 million Kurds. In Turkey, government detente granted the use of the Kurdish language, secondary language status but not for use in schools, broadcasts and other official settings.

In 1992, 10,000 Turkish military advance on PKK bases in Iraq. When they are engaged, Turkey suddenly produces an extra 60,000 troops and the Kurds are overwhelmed. This operation is repeated in 1995 with 35,000 Turkish troops.

In 1998 the PUK and the KDP agree to stop fighting each other and fight the perceived enemy instead.

In 1999, Abdullah Ocalan is captured and sentenced to death but fearing a backlash, the Turkish government kicked the whole matter upstairs to the International Court of Justice. In 2002 the Kurdish National Parliament reconvened after a six year break indicating a national unity within Iraq at least.

In 2003 the Kurds join the Gulf War on the USA & British side. Four Kurds are appointed by the US to the Iraqi Governing Council Including Barzani (son of Mustafa Barzani) and Talibani.

This single act has had the effect of uniting the majority of the Arab (Muslim) world against the Kurdish cause.

After 1300 years of living in other peoples lands, the Kurdish people want what was promised to them in the Treaty of Sèvres in 1920 and with a total population roughly equal to that of Texas, they remain the largest indigenous group in the world without a national homeland.


Everyone knows that what Israel wants, is what America does and what Israel wants are two things, which are easy to say but not so easy to achieve. Firstly, it wants all the oil it can take from the Kirkuk region of Northern Iraq and secondly it wants to break up the sea of Islam in the Middle East, by ethnic cleansing if necessary.

To this end there was a plan, proposed in 1990 by the fairly moderate Zionist Leslie Gelb. The nuts and bolts of this plan comprised a federal Iraq with a northern section for the Iraqi Kurds. Mosul and Kirkuk were to be shared with the Turkoman peoples. The rest of Iraq was to be shared between the Sunnis and the Shiite factions. Not long after the plan was agreed with Washington, Leslie Gelb Died and not long after that, the Turkoman part of the deal disappeared. All that Barzani and Talibani had to do to get their mini state in Iraq was to smash their fraternal brothers the KPP. This they did and received their reward. The DKP and PUK would be dumped in the blink of an eye once they had fulfilled their usefulness if it was not for the oil fields those wily pair are sitting on. The PKK however was down but not out and has now made a resurgence. This soft partition plan in a modified form is what the US Congress voted on last week. The original overall Gelb concept is still being played out and Washington still regards this as ‘nobody’s business’.


It is sometimes said that if you give people guns then sooner of later they are going to shoot themselves in the foot. This is what has happened to Turkey and now they are hopping mad. Although I am presenting this from each countries point of view these countries do not exist in isolation and the truth is an intricate complexity of alliances, temporary allegiances of convenience, crossings, double crossings and downright dirty double dealings. Turkey has blinked first and no matter what the merits of its case they are paying the price (for now). The reason they are in a rage is because Turkeys Prime Minister at the time, Turgut Ozal, was co-author of the Gelb Plan which has now come back to haunt them.

Turkey’s position regarding the Kurds is that since two thirds of them are scattered throughout the land and the rest fully integrated into Turkish society, they have no business dreaming about autonomy. In this, Turkey is taking a similar stance that the Chinese take regarding the Tibetans. The PKK carries out cross border attacks out of Iraq and now that Barzani and Talibani have got what they want, they are no longer interested in smashing anybody, especially their own sort for Turkey’s benefit. The thing that has really stuck in Turkey’s throat however is the position the US is taking. Last year The US gave the green light for Israel to go after Hezbollah in Lebanon after two of its soldiers were captured. Now the PKK have taken out 12 Turkish military and wounded 8 others then disappeared back into Iraq. The US administration is saying “Hold on a minute boys, let’s take it easy and think about this in the round for a minute. Hezbollah are ‘real’ terrorists, the PKK are well…… Is going after these rag tags what we really want to do”? This measuring with two sticks has caused the Turkish Prime Minister Recep Erdogan to respond “In view of its strong determination to root out terrorism, Turkey is willing and ready to cooperate with any actor in its fight against the PKK” later adding, “We will launch an operation against the PKK whenever it will be necessary without asking for anybody’s opinion”. He is willing to make a pact with the Devil if necessary and fuck the US’s political capital. General Yasar Buyukanit added a new dimension to this in June saying “There is not only the PKK in Northern Iraq. There is Massoud Barzani as well. Turkey cannot afford an independent (oil and water rich) state on its southern border.

This is the real reason why Condi is in Turkey because the US doesn’t want anybody upsetting the nice apple cart it has laid out. Turkey however is in a mood to set fire to the oil she is pouring on its troubled waters although the oil has only to stay there long enough for the US to achieve its objectives in Iran and then Turkey can go to hell as far as it is concerned. Its ally will just be another casualty of war when the US will shrug its shoulders and walk away. Turkey knows this and is unlikely to blink first this time.


Now that the first part of the Iraqi soft partition has been virtually achieved and Bazani and Talibani have what they want, they do not want anybody taking it from them, particularly Turkey. After all they were only taking sides against the PKK to get what they wanted off the USA and Israel. Any benefit to Turkey was purely incidental. In response to Yasar Buyukanit’s statement above, Barzani replied with a startling and novel concept. “If Turkey invaded, we would deal with it as an Iraqi issue”. This warlord who can hardly stand to be in the same country as Malaki and the rest, would regard an invasion by Turkey to be firstly an attack on the Iraqi occupying forces to be resisted by General Petraus and secondly an attack on Southern Kurdistan. So they want to have their kebab and eat it; who do they think they are, Scotland? Whether or not the US has the resources to meet such an adventure is another thing, Turkey is in a mind to go anyway.


Kurds have expanded their territory over the Eastern Turkish border into Iran’s oil rich North Western states so far as lake Urmia (Orumigeh). The PKK now represents as much of a threat to Iran as it does to Turkey. By funding separatist movements, mainly by the Kurds, the Azeris and Ahwaz Arabs the USA hopes to keep the Iran administration busy enough to take its eye off the ball. It fully realizes that Iran is too big to be brought down this way but it hopes to weaken it enough for it to abandon its nuclear ambitions.

It is interesting that in 1979 Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini declared jihad against the Kurds denouncing their separatist claims based on ethnicity as un-Islamic. There was and never would be any such thing as Iranian Kurdistan. This at least brought him into agreement with the leaders of Iraq, Syria and Turkey. Over recent history the Kurds have been playing a cat and mouse game in Iran. Whenever they are chased away and Iran gets busy somewhere else, they come back again, shaking spears and making claims.

The House of Saud is also very worried that soft partition of Iraq would give rise to a Kurdistan counterpart, Shiiteistan on its northern border which it fears, would be subservient to Iran.


So it comes to this, there are two sorts of terrorists, the ones who do what the USA likes and those who do what the USA doesn’t like. One sort is OK and the other sort not OK. The PKK are only minor terrorists, a mere bagatelle, hardly anything at all, nothing for anyone to really get upset over especially Turkey. And they will remain OK so long as they are useful to the USA and then they will be not OK.

The USA has demonstrated the adage of ‘my enemies enemy is my friend’ so often that it is now enshrined policy. This is clear in its funding of separatist movements within Iran. The problem in this instance is that you can’t say I am giving money to this bit of the PKK which is in Iran but we are not giving it to that bit of the PKK that operates in Turkey.

The big perplexing question for the USA is whether its desire to smash Iran is great enough to allow a war in Northern Iraq which will compromise both Israel’s oil supply and the Turkey / Iraq corridor through which 70% of US supplies to Iraq travel.

Here are some pertinent observations regarding the US’s foreign policy from Robert Higgs (a fellow of political science at the Johns Hopkins University).

”As a general rule for understanding public policies, I insist that there are no persistent "failed" policies. Policies that do not achieve their desired outcomes for the actual powers-that-be are quickly changed. If you want to know why the
U.S. policies have been what they have been for the past sixty years, you need only comply with that invaluable rule of inquiry in politics: follow the money.

When you do so, I believe you will find U.S. policies in the Middle East to have been wildly successful, so successful that the gains they have produced for the movers and shakers in the petrochemical, financial, and weapons industries (which is approximately to say, for those who have the greatest influence in determining U.S. foreign policies) must surely be counted in the hundreds of billions of dollars.

So U.S. soldiers get killed, so Palestinians get insulted, robbed, and confined to a set of squalid concentration areas, so the "peace process" never gets far from square one, etc., etc. – none of this makes the policies failures; these things are all surface froth, costs not borne by the policy makers themselves but by the cannon-fodder masses, the bovine taxpayers at large, and foreigners who count for nothing.

It would hardly do for our national leaders to announce the truth.

We have military power of a kind that allows us to do whatever we want, anywhere in the world. We intend to establish worldwide hegemony, baby. And while we're doing that, we and some of our best friends are going to get filthy, stinking rich. Guess what: most of the governing class is in on the scheme -- and there isn't a damned thing you can do about it.
No, that wouldn't do at all. So our leaders talk of "national interests," which can mean anything imaginable that serves the needs of the moment”.


The Kurds have been divided and are being ruled but both groups still have the power to cause continued trouble.

The USA finds both groups useful, the DKP & PUK to stabilize N Iraq and to supply oil to Israel and PKK to destabilize Iran and doesn’t want Turkey to Invade Iraq to start a war which will compromise both objectives. If achieving that goal involves dumping its ally Turkey then they will just be regarded as a casualty of war.


freeacre said...

Very illuminating, Belgium! Thanks. Until a few years ago, I thought a kurd was one of those lumps found in cottage cheese. If one is going to suffer from nuclear war breaking out possibly over the darn Kurds, it'd be nice to have at least an idea of what in the hell the fuss is about. Didn't Saddam also drop biological weapons on them and kill a bunch of Kurdish civilians? (With U.S. bio-weapons.)
Are the Kurds stereotyped in some way? Like the Jews are thought to be good bankers, lawyers, actors, musicians, screen-play writers, scientists, etc. And the Gypsies are thought to drink strong coffee and run bogus roofing scams... Scots call a half a sandwich a whole one and are very thrifty. What would someone say about a Kurd? Anybody know? I have a feeling that a Kurdish stand-up comedian would be innately funny.
This has GOT to be way over the head of our "Decider," He probably thinks they are just one more bunch of hopeless suckers that are on our list to fuck over. This is another example of us messing around with historical forces that we don't understand that will probably come back to haunt us as they eventually slit our throats.

Anonymous said...

Holy shit Murph, you got my vote SATS,how in the hell anyone can hold all that info between two ears is way beyond my limited depth of understanding,it looks like those folks over there use war like the people here use television,i mean what in the fuck would they do without all that scheming,back stabbing,killing, camel eating bullshit?
i mean its a lock isn't it,in stone.
forget the so called book that is supposed to be the WORD that guides their lives, the fucks just like to kill because its satuday nite, and its boring just sitting around on a huge pile of sand and their women looking like bags of rags.
fuck i'd go kill something too.
i kind of think without all that oil they would be hard pressed to rent space to a sand flee,much less a human being.
and that place is suppose to be the cradle of civilization? utter nonsense i say!
i say it started down by Stoneys digs.huh stoney?
a good turkey gitter a hooter and a sip of granpa's fixin's,and a stolen slice of grandma's sweet apple pie, now thats what i call civilized nation.
thanx SATS, really nice work,have you written any books?
looking forward to your history stories,anytime.

love to hear your take on stuff FA

peace and love to all us swimmers and our rainbow sides.

freeacre said...

You know, this problem of not having a "home" on the planet is the root of a lot of our problems, isn't it?
One reads that the American Indians couldn't get their minds around the concept of buying and selling the land. The land was just naturally our home. We belong to the land, the land doesn't belong to us.

That would change everything, would it not?


Anonymous said...

From Belgium,

Quite right Freeacre, that would indeed change everything. I guess you will agree with this quotation too.

Crazy Horse (1840–1877)
chief (Oglala Sioux)
Statement, Sept. 23, 1875

“One does not sell the land people walk on”.

(But they did and you know it was not entirely their fault, if nobody had bought it they would have had nothing to sell).

Anyway, to reply to your e-mail here, it is not the knuckle draggers you have to worry about, you can deal with them, it is the mouth breathers you have to keep a watchful eye on. LOLO


I don’t keep it between my ears, I look it up. You can do that too, it’s not so difficult. The trick is to get it from the web and into the blog without it going through your brain. Well almost, is it human nature to diminish the value of anything that comes naturally to you? Haven’t written any books though.
Rag heads walking down the street with their bag of rags in tow, what a picture, can you see it in your head?

Since I am doing quote of the day, I guess you won’t spend too long thinking about this one.

Vine Deloria, Jr. (1933– )
historian and activist (Hunkpapa Lakota)
from the New York Times Magazine, 1979

“This country was a lot better off when the Indians were running it”.


Anonymous said...

Mrsp here...Wow Belgium that was a powerhouse of info and I really enjoyed reading it. Very good.
Now my overall impression of the PKK is that they're not all that bad? Seems like the Kurds have been getting the short end of the stick for way too long. Homeless. And the Israeli Gov...ya gotta hate em. The more I hear about Israeli government/leadership the more I dispise them. They've become like the British, the Dutch, etc. colonizing sickos. Very informative and isn't connie so have to wonder how much cash she passes around in these places? She's an oil tart.

I like this quote you put in:
“This country was a lot better off when the Indians were running it”.

I think they would have shared it all with the stupid white men if we hadn't of been so damn cocky and arrogant, sadly they got screwed and still are, in my opinion.

Thanksgiving is 2 wks from Thursday, hard to belive. I'm going to take a tiny dip, not a major swim, just get wet, etc. in the ocean to cleanse my head. The waves are too rough and big at the moment and the water is getting colder but still salty and still okay since we haven't had any big rains but when we do it will probably turn black from all the soot. They'll probably show it on CNN. We'll see. A friend said Mars is going retro for 2 months? That will be interesting.

MF said:
"peace and love to all us swimmers and our rainbow sides."

love that mf ditto back to you.
great post belgium i love this place! my latest post is silly but passionate as today is "general election day", ( a year early).
peace & love, mrsp

rockpicker said...

Great post, Belgium. Thanks for all the hard work. It will probably prove invaluable as a reference as things unfold between Turkey and the PKK.

As an aside, it's being reported now Bush had a finger in Musharaf's clamp-down. Big surprise!

Oil hit $97/barrel. I heard gold sold at $210/oz today. Bring it on, baby. Can't collapse soon enough for me.

Feinstein and Schumer made Mukasey's confirmation possible, despite the testimony of retired intelligence officers who said waterboarding is torture and we would be better off without any AG than a corrupt yes man. A pox on both their houses.

I've been reading about morphic fields. Rupert Sheldrake suggested there may be fields generated by sentient life forms, (presumably, electrically based?) that allow organisms to pass along paterns to others of their species. His theory was, of course, ridiculed by peers. But experiments conducted at Princeton indicate that, indeed, such a thing as a global consciousness does exist and can even be observed.

This too we know, when the world gasp's, white noise crackles
and deflects the world 'round.
When those, whose valor was restraint,
are moved past fear, they must
not wait for tyranny to desist.
Let them hurl stones and set
their curfewed streets afire.
Though lawyers and holy men
are disappeared, bolt upright
out of dream, deluded emperors
will hug their knees and moan.

Anonymous said...

Well SATS,now that you mention it you could drink from the rivers,course everyone knows that but who wants to drink from a river when you can throw shit in it and light it on fire.
Git yer camra ma, the rivers on far,watch the ungens dernt fall in ya heer?
The last of this moon is gone this nite at about six in the morning and will not be seen for a few days in the west is that magic?
another good sweet beautiful friend, a nurse,healer gave up her diseased body the day before yesterday and as i seek her in the spirit world, looking at the twinkling stars, langosta drifted into my mind and said do not be sad because her pain is gone and her mission is done, i said why langosta,she was so young, and she told me that humans are accumulating on every level trying to ward off that which is inevitable and the trick is to start throwing stuff off on every level and that the final thing to discard is the body, and as wonderous as it seems, it to is only one place to be, the understanding of that happened and i started laughing and later i was thinking that if anyone had seen and heard me they would think i had lost it,
good by PAULA JENKS, you have healed my soul and lit up my life with your goodness,i shall miss you and your sweet smile all my life.
rest in peace my beautiful companion,i loved you so much and will hold your hand again soon.
i have to cry now,later

Anonymous said...

Well SATS,now that you mention it you could drink from the rivers,course everyone knows that but who wants to drink from a river when you can throw shit in it and light it on fire.
Git yer camra ma, the rivers on far,watch the ungens dernt fall in ya heer?
The last of this moon is gone this nite at about six in the morning and will not be seen for a few days in the west is that magic?
another good sweet beautiful friend, a nurse,healer gave up her diseased body the day before yesterday and as i seek her in the spirit world, looking at the twinkling stars, langosta drifted into my mind and said do not be sad because her pain is gone and her mission is done, i said why langosta,she was so young, and she told me that humans are accumulating on every level trying to ward off that which is inevitable and the trick is to start throwing stuff off on every level and that the final thing to discard is the body, and as wonderous as it seems, it to is only one place to be, the understanding of that happened and i started laughing and later i was thinking that if anyone had seen and heard me they would think i had lost it,
good by PAULA JENKS, you have healed my soul and lit up my life with your goodness,i shall miss you and your sweet smile all my life.
rest in peace my beautiful companion,i loved you so much and will hold your hand again soon.
i have to cry now,later

freeacre said...

I know those morphic
fields are true,
for therein I feel the set
of Rockpicker's jaw and
Montana's tears, and
they are mine and
Ours as well.

freeacre said...

Actually, at this moment, gold is at $834 per oz!! Wow. The dollar is tanking. Hold onto your butts.

rockpicker said...

my spirit sits with your spirit
this dying hunter's moon night, mf,
and offers only a small handful
of sweetgrass smoke and an open ear.

But I will keep
the slow beat drumming,
keep my clumsy finger strumming,
'til we see a new light coming
over the dew-jeweled meadow.

Faith is a gift, a cane
we lean on, full weight,
when the pain of loss staggers
our great good hearts. Believe
she is not gone, but lifted free
to realms awaiting you and me.

rockpicker said...

You're a sweetie. Please allow a hand-held kiss and genuflection, sweep of the cap and a low bow.
'Course, I don't mean to suggest perfection. That's all I better say for now.

Anonymous said...

From Belgium,

I must divert attention away from the current topic for a moment, this is important. Not only has the current US administration turned most of the world against it, many of the long term staff at the White House and other departments of state are bailing out with many going public before they can be officially gagged.

It now seems that Iran has been in secret negotiations with Washington (not the other way round) since 2003 at least, either directly or through honest brokers. Amongst other things, Tehran has promised the following:

To dump its nuclear program

To dump Hamas and Hezbollah

To fully recognize Israel

To stop interfering in Iraq

To help Stabilize Afghanistan

With the help of Saudi Arabia, to sort out the Palestine situation

All of these things have been flatly turned down by the White House.
The only conclusion that can be drawn is that the US is determined to have a war with Iran, no matter what it takes.

stoney13 said...


Great Post! lots of good info! I've always wondered exactly what the Kurds were as a people, their religion, and political leanings.

It appears that they found out the hard way, (like we Native Americans did!) that if you put your futures and interests in the hands of those who have only their own interests at heart, they will be forgotten, denied, and trampled!

Turkey is getting a little stuck on itself of late! I don't know what they are trying to prove with all this tough talk and chest thumping! We ain't buyin' it! A while back I counciled everyone to google "Greek Evzones" The Turks are scared of these guys! Enough said!

The Turkish Army hasn't done anything except sell wolf-tickets since WW-1!!

Greek Evzones still march around in skirts and panty-hose with pom-poms on their shoes and talk about decapitating Turks! (I don't know what it takes to get called out in Turkey, but in my world, somebody would DAMN-sure be doing some bleeding for that one! Talk about a "dis"! It boggles the mind!)

Not only does Turkey sit idley by while all this abuse is heaped on it's military might by Greece, but it has been doing so for the last one hundred years! The Kurds have nothing to worry about, The Spartans are all dead!

Nope! If Turkey was going to jump, then Grece would be gone by now! They blow, and bluster, but when the shit hits the fan, they are better suited to acts of blatant gencide against mostly unarmed Armenians, than any sort of military campain. I may be wrong, but from what I've seen, I haven't seen much!

As far as Iran goes, it's like a cat at the end of a dog chain, with George W. Bush wearing the collar! As long as the chain holds, Iran has nothing to worry about, but chains get weakened from over-use, and a couple of links in Bush's are spreading!

The US Airforce put a couple of big "cold shuts" in with that little "B-52 loaded with cruise missles" scenario, but if Bush wants Iran bad enough, his handlers will give it to him, (if it suits their puposes!) no matter the cost in American lives!

So basicly the message is simple: Fuck war bonds, BUY AMMO!!!!!!!!

stoney13 said...

Montan Freeman,

Hate to hear about your friend. I'm sure she made it through just fine. I will pray form her spirit tonight.

rockpicker said...


Thanks for the heads-up on the truthseeker article. Really good piece. Have to get to work now and try to assimilate all the news of late. Talk at you later.

Anonymous said...

From Belgium,

Mf, Man, I wish we could drop by your place and get drunk together on your back porch and wait for the light to come up. Listen to Langosta tell stories of what is to come, I am sure these animals are smarter than us and maybe hear that your friend has found peace. Chris is doing a government training course to become a care assistant, a sort of nurse’s help for ease of explanation. As part of this she has to do a project of her choice and the one she has picked is caring for the dying. This is not an easy subject but one which is very worthwhile. This subject has been in the house for a couple of weeks now and contrary to expectations it is a very positive one. Anyway, our thoughts are with you. Take care.

For all of you guys, thanks for the encouraging words.

Stoney, re Evzones, in the words of the Duke of Wellington, “I don’t know what this lot do to the enemy but they bloody sure frighten me”. Re Kurds, like the Palestinians you start denying people things and it is only storing up problems for later.

RP, drop by electronically later and we will chew the fat some more.

Palooka's Revenge said...

damn b, that is some story in esquire! i remember all these events as they unfolded over time... the boat, powell on that trip, crown prince at bush't ranch of all places, the "peace plan" that never got legs, putin backiing off the delivery etc, etc. but to have them all connected up like this is chilling. and then kharrazi's concessions document... phew!!!

and barely the tip of the ideberg cuz appears they got leverett and mann by the shorthairs. but clearly the smoking gun re US vs iran. when you peal away the charades and bullshit whats at the core? is it the israeli influence and power positions running the show or the war mongers and military industrial complex playing off each other? or, or or? or all of the above!

i think leverett's right... after all this, take on iran and you take on the entire muslim world. no damn wonder their pissed! and who will russia and china stand with? duh! where's putin on the rods delivery now... any idea? one of these days somebody's hand is going to get called. everybody's already all-in!

rockpicker said...

Hey, MF, how'd the election turn out?

rockpicker said...

Here's a little silver lining for those of you out there with even a smidgen of hope left.

Tuesday, November 6, 2007, 09:27 AM

Monday, November 5, 2007

Marjorie Cohn, NLG President,; 619-374-6923
Heidi Boghosian, NLG Executive Director, 212-679-5100, ext. 11
James Marc Leas, NLG member who drafted the resolution, 802 864-1575 or 802 734-8811

November 5, Washington, D.C. The National Lawyers Guild voted unanimously and enthusiastically for the impeachment of George W. Bush and Dick Cheney at its national convention in Washington, DC. The resolution lists more than a dozen high crimes and misdemeanors of the Bush and Cheney administration and "calls upon the U.S. House of Representatives to immediately initiate impeachment proceedings, to investigate the charges, and if the investigation supports the charges, to vote to impeach George W. Bush and Richard B. Cheney as provided in the Constitution of the United States of America."

The resolution provides for an NLG Impeachment Committee open to all members that will help organize and coordinate events at the local, state, and national level to build public participation in the campaign to initiate impeachment investigation, impeachment, and removal of Bush and Cheney from office without further delay.

The resolution calls on all other state and national bar associations, state and local government bodies, community organizations, labor unions, and all other citizen associations to adopt similar resolutions and to use all their resources to build the campaign demanding that Congress initiate impeachment investigation, impeach, and remove Bush and Cheney from office.

The full text of the resolution can be found at ... lution.pdf

National Lawyers Guild President Marjorie Cohn said, "The war of aggression, the secret prisons, the use of cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment, the use of evidence obtained by torture, and the surveillance of citizens without warrants, all initiated and carried out under the tenure of Bush and Cheney, are illegal under the U.S. Constitution and international law.”

Founded in 1937 as an alternative to the American Bar Association, which did not admit people of color, the National Lawyers Guild is the oldest and largest public interest/human rights bar organization in the United States. Its headquarters are in New York and it has chapters in every state.

freeacre said...

wow. Let's all make copies of it, e-mail it to everyone, submit proposals to our local, county, state, and national representatives to support the impeachment proceedings... then to every other group we are associated with from churches to the local Moose Club or union or whatever. This could be good. Seal it with a general strike demanding impeachment!

freeacre said...

Just watched a charming movie from Netflix entitled "Ten Canoes." It's an aborigine tale all acted by Australian aborigines. Has a narrator, but the rest speak the native language - subtitled. Just a simple tale, but well worth watching, just to see how they do it. A man dies in the story and the tribe responded with dance and rituals for months. Made me sad to think about my own father who died recently alone in a hospital. Elephants have more ceremony than a lot of us do. Very strange how disconnected our families become when we all live hundreds of miles apart, have divorces, etc...

rockpicker said...

Carolyn Baker has an interesting review of Naomi Klein's latest book on the Shock Doctrine. At first, I thought she was simply nit-picking, but by the end of the article, I believe, she hit upon a valid and important point that I have been aligned with, but unable to articulate. My hat is off to anyone who can speak clearly and succinctly about the abuses of this administration. It takes a monumental effort to hold one's emotions in check long enough to present one's case without bursting into raging rants. Her last few paragraphs are exactly spot-on, I think. I haven't read Klein's work, but if Baker's representation is correct, I think her observation that progressives have tended to embrace denial is well-founded. We have seen too many ill-conceived 9/11 debunking stories authored by supposed "liberals" to think otherwise. The true motivation behind these pathetic smears remains unclear. But as Baker correctly points out, respected left pundits like Alexander Cockburn, Matt Taibi and Josh Holland have, time and again, denigrated the 9/11 truthers while leaving unchallenged the most assinine of all the conspiracy theories, the official one.

Here's the link:

I suspect these professional writers long ago adopted the "careful approach" as a means of protecting themselves and keeping their jobs. After all, an op-ed writer's exposure is somewhat akin to that of a politician, and we all know how proficient enduring politicos become at performing that task.

Alternet's latest attempt to smear the 'truthers' was to rebroadcast an old video of Noam Chomsky telling questioners at a lecture that he thought no government complicity during 9/11 would have been possible, since it would have involved too many people and maintaining secrecy afterwards would have been an impossible task.

I'd say over ninty per cent of respondents argued with this assertion, and, in short order, commenters began turning their aggressions towards the editors of AlterNet for dredging up this old item in the first place.

What Baker says about the naivete of the left is fundamentally true and important. (I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but, please indulge me. I've been trying to spit this out for three years, at least. I promise I'll stop soon.)

Until the proletariat believes that the elite class has only it's own self-interest at heart, cares naught for the rest of us and is willing to do anything, and I do mean ANYTHING, to further it's own agenda, the masses will continue to be led by the nose. We must understand that the Powers That Be are organized, and if we want any say in our future, we need to get organized as well.

rockpicker said...

What cabinet post in the Clinton administration do you suppose Diane Feinstein has her eye on?

murph said...


A quote from you comment;

Until the proletariat believes that the elite class has only it's own self-interest at heart, cares naught for the rest of us and is willing to do anything, and I do mean ANYTHING, to further it's own agenda, the masses will continue to be led by the nose. We must understand that the Powers That Be are organized, and if we want any say in our future, we need to get organized as well.

Well said my man. We have been putting that thought out for some time on this site. You well stated it again.

freeacre said...

Re: Feinstein. I'd like to give her the post of men's bathroom monitor in the U.S. Senate. That ought to keep her busy!

Speaking of the Kurds, what's happening with them? All of a sudden all one hears about is Pakistan. End of Kurd story.

And regarding the 9/11 coverage, I'd agree that the operative dynamic is denial.

cyclone said...

This is certainly off topic, but I want to congratulate Murph and freeacre on building a wonderful site. I hope to visit on occasion and am happy to see the lights of the campfire burning from afar.

freeacre, I just read about your father. My thoughts and prayers are with you as you move through the process of healing.

Peace be with all who visit here. I miss each and every one of you,


Dude said...

Feinstein is vying for a position in the BUSH/DICK/Isreal Reich in '08.

After Cheney's next 9/11 (my guess is a Blackwater/CIA operation consisting of a faux Iranian bomb or missile toward the 40+ year-old USS Enterprise) the US and Isreal will bomb the shit outta Iran, Chertoff (an Isreali) will be in charge of implementing the 2008 Defence Authorization Bill (i.e. Marshall Law), Iran might be able to use some of their Sunburn missiles which could decimate the 5th Fleet, those who and who've opposed DICK/Bush will be rouded up and put into the Halliburton detention centers, the stock market will crash (if it doesn't crash before that time) and we'll be trying to figure out how to feed ourselves in the Great Depression, part deux.

I guess that 'bout sums it up. I'm hoping I'll be able to escape to some other country when TSHTF. Like maybe being the highest bidder on a boat on e-bay, paddling to a balmy Carabbean island and asking for asylum claiming religious and political persecution. It could happen.


murph said...

Nice to hear from you.

Dude, Yup, your events calender is about the worst case scenario I think. Only thing worse is a pandemic or radiation poisoning on a worldwide scale. In either case, I think an attempt to force slavery on those that are still around in a few years is gonna happen.

rockpicker said...


How do Russia, China, India and Venezuela figure into your scenario?

Oh, and what about the threatened reprisals against the PTB by the Red and Green Gang, should any of this ill-conceived shit take place?

Dude said...

Hell, Russia and China might be the only things saving us from Bush/DICK and the "End-Times" evangelicals. Just wish they'd hurry up.

cyclone said...

As for Feinstein, and Schumer, I'm not sure they had a choice. If they don't vote to confirm, Boosh gets a recess appointment. Who might that be? Rudy himself? A pardoned Libby after his fines are paid? I shudder to think.


Dude said...

No, they probably didn't have a choice. AIPAC called. Told them what to do -or else. Case closed.

rockpicker said...

If these spineless assholes want to be politicians, then I say let them step up to the plate and ACT like politicians. If Bush threatens a recess appointment, Congress should shake the impeachment wand and see what the smirking chimp has to say about that.

There's plenty congress can do to start standing up for the will of the people, who are neither as dumb, nor as ill-informed, as most observers want to believe. I think most of us have too much class to raise a stink. And now, fear of reprisals for dissention is a real consideration.

Civil disobedience. There's a topic for someone to take on.

From where I stand, I am sovereign. I am first and foremost, a citizen of the planet earth and a child of God. As far as I know, I have only a brief time in which to explore the few, or the many, wondrous and magical facets of who I might be.

Governments root about at my pleasure. They function with my blessing only if they work on my behalf. When they cease to respond to my needs, they void the contract that allows them legitimacy. Our current federal regime seems to be
eyeballing the wallow of total irrelevancy.

Should I take the next step and declare, in my own mind, at least, that the government I sanctioned no longer operates with any regard for my interests, what responsible recourse is left me?

cyclone said...

I don't disagree with impeachment, nor with the spinelessness of those in power. It does appear that the people fear reprisal and are unwilling to do anything such as what the lawyers and others in Pakistan chose to do. I doubt that many wouldstamd up even if martial law were declared here. So, sadly, we shall wither away one dollar bill at a time.

rockpicker said...

The internet is an analogy for collective consciousness, and as you bounce around it, reading blogs and comments on opinions, don't you get the sense that people are waking?

I do. I remember when theories of government involvement in 9/11 were so totally radical they had to be explained delicately to stunned listeners. I remember a bitter nation demanding retribution from people it knew, instinctively, were innocent.

Times have changed. Those who tried to prevent the war have watched as the misguided majority slowly came around. But come around it has.

The frustration is tangible. With the war. With the democrats elected to end the war. Our loss of treasury. Our youth maimed and wasted. Our economy tanking. And the guilt we all share to varying degrees for allowing the neo-cons to perpetrate their horrors in our names.

Many of us will not "go quietly into that good night."

Jack Kennedy said, "Those who make peaceful change impossible, make violent change inevitable."

Question is, what will be the last straw?

rockpicker said...

Here's a link to the state of the planet, in graphics.

Anonymous said...

Should I take the next step and declare, in my own mind, at least, that the government I sanctioned no longer operates with any regard for my interests, what responsible recourse is left me?

i did! and many view that as unpatirotic. i really don't give a shit what they think any more...p

cyclone said...


Yes, what will be the last straw? I think that should have already been obvious but don't think we're even close yet for the conciousness of the people to rise to the necessary level. But yes, things have certainly changed.

How many more houses need to be foreclosed on? How much more does health care have to cost? How many more tired, hungry people on the streets will it take? How much higher do gas prices go? How many more kids are killed in a useless war? How many more rights are stripped away one by one by one?

So, people are pissed at the Dems for not ending the war. What do they do, put the Repugs back in control out of anger? Or give the Dems who are no different the opportunity to further muck it up?

I think some of us know the answer to many of these things; they are spoken of daily. But the collective will to actually do something about it is simply not there and again I say, not even close to being where it needs to be to effect real change.

The treasures of this nation have been buried too deep, the downward financial spiral is too far along to be stopped in time to help most, in fact too far along to be stopped at all. Some will make it, most will not. Yet we trudge ahead, without knowing our final destination. Or do we?

rockpicker said...


Prudence declares certain remedies off-limits in the alehouse.

AP is reporting the Mukasey-led DoJ will re-open the investigation into the legality of warrantless wiretaps. That's a start, and a bit of good news.

Yesterday, somewhere, I read a call for Feinstein's censure, evidence of more waking and of more to come.

I know the pace is painfully slow now, but as the working middle class ire bulges over cost of living increases, the dollar's lost purchasing power, another resource war going badly and more war looming, we might easily witness a bloody descent into the mayhem of complete societal dissolution.

Let me be the first to say, that would not be good.

But, drastic change is needed. And fast. So, what are our alternatives?

rockpicker said...


Rudy's toast.