Saturday, December 22, 2007



I thought maybe we’d change the conversation a little bit to reflect the season from now until Christmas or the New Year. There’s also the Winter Solstice, Hanukah, Kwanza, and I think Pluto is aligning with the galactic center, or some such thing - lots of reasons to celebrate. God knows, we could use a break.

Holiday is short for “holy day,” is it not? Well, holy or not, this season marks the end of 2007 and ushers in the New Year, which, by most accounts is going to be a monster. But right now, we are invited to extend peace and goodwill and joy to ourselves and to others. In the long run, those qualities may be just as important as canned goods to see us through the hard times.

My son and his girlfriend just let us know that they will be coming here for Christmas. So, we’ve got some things to do in terms of carving out some space for them and making extra goodies and things. I’m sure many of us are more or less in the same boat, in terms of time constraints.

So, this post is going to be a short one.

Murph and I want to express our heartfelt gratitude to you for picking up and moving to this site by the stream. We’ve managed to gather together before the first snows flew through the skies, hopefully without losing anybody. I know Cyclone still checks in on us, and with any luck, will contact us soon.

Winter is the time for wisdom and reflection, a time to live on the stores from the harvest and reflect on what worked and what didn’t work so well. Time to say one more farewell to those who have passed on this year. Time to make some plans for next year. Time to make merry with friends and family and tribe. I think the Montana contingent got a head start on us with their dancing in the snow. Our hearts join theirs.

Let us pause somewhere along the line and allow a sense of peace and purpose and plenty to prevail. Love and joy may then join in. All this will lend itself to the strength that we will need in the coming year to deal with the challenges and the surprises that will face us.

We might like to share lists: “Top Ten Atrocities Committed by the Bush Administration this year”;” Most Annoying Television Messages of 2007”; “ Best and Worst Scenarios for 2008.” Or we might try Helpful Tips – what to say to a Mitt Romney supporter, organize back-up mistresses for Rudy Giuliani, or how to tar and feather a hedgefund manager.

Anyway, despite the hectic schedules, let’s attempt to keep in touch. We will continue to share our thoughts and feelings, ideas, rumors, fears, hopes and dreams. Who would have thunk it that Russell Means would come up with the Lakota Nation? I find myself daydreaming of new holidays to celebrate in the new free country. Russell Means Day could replace Columbus Day, for instance. Or how about Trout Clan Tribe Day?

It’s like the Universe holds its hand out to us and says, “Hey, ya wanna take a ride?”

Have a happy holiday, everybody.

Murph says;

I reckon I need to add my 2 cents onto this post also.

As I have expressed, I think that next year is going to be the manifestation of all the crap that has been brewing for so long, and all the bad decisions made in our names. So, I think that it is a good idea to sit back and take a look at what has been happening in the last year, and take stock of where we are ourselves, what we have accomplished, where we fell short. Also time to review and maybe modify plans for the future.

It is also a time that I like to reflect on relationships I have. We have been together on Cy’s original site and this site for about two years now. I would assume that everyone sticks around the campfire because it fulfills a need in companionship and sharing of our lives. A potential debate on authenticness I will leave for those with more cynical inclinations. I know that this camp fire has a closeness and companionable interaction that often surprises me but is always enjoyable. As long as the internet is viable, I will be hanging around the fire.

I do hope you all have an enjoyable, healthy and loving holiday season, refreshing the spirit for what lies ahead.



murph said...


From the last post, you expressed a question that I consider important. You said,

"You have mentioned before about the effect on climate change caused by wind generators but do you foresee the disadvantages outweighing the advantages?"

When I look at how decisions are made on a national and international scale particularly, I am appalled at the compromises that are made. What you expressed above is a very contemporary and common way of evaluating considered actions. Now, the same reasoning can be applied to making dams for electricity and killing all the species of spawning fish. The same reasoning can be used for propagation of the inefficient and climate polluting internal combustion engine. The same reasoning can be implemented for all long term destructive actions. I think it is a trap made specifically for us by those that have the most to gain by the action. It contains assumptions that have no basis in reality, and completely negates any further discussion concerning viability.

Years ago I did some research for a lake association where I lived. We were having problems with Gypsy Moth destruction of the trees. The association wanted to spray. I asked them just how much investigation they had done into methods of spraying and it's impact on the environment. They said none, and asked if I was willing to do some. So I did. I just happened to be living where some of the countries foremost authorities lived and wrote about gypsy moth damage and control. I wrote up a 40 or so page report and gave it to the pres. and secretary of the association. Saw them a few weeks later and asked them if they had read it. Nope, but I suspect that they had skipped on to the conclusion where I ended up suggesting that if the spraying killed all the earth worms in the area, would it then be worth it? They sprayed a supposedly specific insecticide for the gypsy moth, and thereafter I never saw another lepodoptra, or cricket, or grasshopper in the area again.

More unforeseen consequences? More instituting action with devastating side affects for accomplishment of a single objective?

Problem is I spend time doing the same kind of evaluations in my daily life. What are the trade offs and benefits for whatever action I take? But, at least the side affects of the action are not going to have real broad implications, it is only going to affect me and those I live with. Wind farms are another matter altogether.

rockpicker said...

How's about that kid with the wind belt? Anybody go take a look at that one yet? Haven't heard any discussion of the potential there.

Also, at least two people are dissociating water into HHO with radio waves and burning the hydrogen to power both steam engines and conventional internal combustion engines. Things are not as hopeless as they seem, I think.

Congratulations, everyone, on reaching the solstice. Notice how the days are getting longer?

murph said...


The problem with all of these sources of power is that the people suggesting and experimenting with them are not doing their homework. There has to be a total energy in and total energy out analysis. When this was done for ethanol is when they discovered that it was completely unsustainable and a foolish wast of resources.

The wind belt news I did go and look at, and tried to get additional information. I couldn't find any other information on it.

Here is what I want to know about it. What is total energy needed to produce the components, life expectancy, and total energy output under less than optimal conditions? Can it be made without oil input?

One of the questions I have been proposing at a couple of forums is just what is the expectation of outcome for all these different energy sources? Interestingly, most seem to be intent in preserving our "way of life". Now with what we know at this time, does that seem either reasonable or sustainable to you?

What I fear a lot is that we indeed discover or finally come out with some great new very low cost energy source to take to place of oil. If that happens, what we are experiencing with the fascist state, the militarism, the crooked politics will go on in a self sustaining circle of elites rubbing each others back. I find that scenario to be unacceptable.

Always beware, be careful of what you wish for, you might just get it.

Anonymous said...

This was taken from

Iran: Bushehr plant ready by March 21st 2008 whereas the Iran election is on March 14th 2008.

* Story Highlights
* Iran's first nuclear power plant expected to be operational within three months
* Official: Bushehr plant will provide electricity to Iran's national power grid
* The Russian-built facility began receiving nuclear fuel a week ago
* It will deliver 500 megawatts of electricity by summer, 1,000 by March 2009

TEHRAN, Iran (CNN) -- Iran's first nuclear power plant will be operational within three months, providing electricity to Iran's national power grid by the summer, according to Iranian Energy Minister Parviz Fattah.

Russia says its fuel can only be used at and for the Bushehr plant.

Russia, which is building the Bushehr plant for Iran, started delivering nuclear fuel to the facility a week ago as part of a compromise effort to alleviate concerns over Iran's nuclear intentions while supporting Iran's right to a nuclear energy program.

Fattah told reporters Saturday that the Bushehr nuclear power plant, which was previously expected to be completed last September, will become operational on March 21, 2008, according to Islamic Republic of Iran Broadcasting (IRIB).

The plant will deliver 500 megawatts of electricity to the power grid by summer and 1,000 megawatts by March 2009, IRIB reported.

Atomstroiexport, Russia's nuclear power equipment and service export monopoly, completed the first stage of nuclear fuel deliveries a week ago, the Russian Federal Atomic Energy Agency said.

The United States, several European nations, and Israel suspect Tehran has been trying to acquire nuclear weapons, but Iran denies its nuclear program is for anything but peaceful purposes. A recent U.S. intelligence summary concluded that, contrary to earlier suspicions, Iran halted its nuclear weapons development in 2003.

Atomstroiexport, the Russian monopoly, is building the $1 billion Bushehr plant under the control of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), the United Nations' nuclear watchdog agency. The Russian foreign ministry and nuclear officials said the fuel delivery was under full IAEA safeguards.
Don't Miss

* Russia delivers nuclear fuel to Iran
* Olmert: Keep pressure on Iran
* Iran president calls U.S. report 'a positive step'

A statement on the Russian Foreign Ministry's official Web site last week said Iran had provided additional written guarantees that the fuel can only be used at and for the Bushehr plant, and that the spent fuel will be returned to Russia for utilization and storage.

The U.N. Security Council has repeatedly demanded that Iran suspend its own enrichment of uranium and has imposed limited sanctions on Tehran for refusing to comply. Russia, France, and China -- all permanent Security Council members -- have voiced concerns about the proposed sanctions.

A recent U.S. National Intelligence Estimate said Iran stopped work toward a nuclear weapon while under international scrutiny in 2003 and is unlikely to be able to produce enough enriched uranium for a bomb until 2010 to 2015.

Construction of the plant was expected to be completed in September, but was delayed because of lack of financing and delayed equipment deliveries from other countries, the official Russian news agency Interfax said.

murph said...


What do you think of that information?

Palooka's Revenge said...

mf.... i was kiddin of course. jes couldn't help meself.

about this... the children are wise without much help from anyone other then i think just of be available to experience the pitfalls and joys with them as they develop into adulthood and stand by them if they need it.and if not stay the fuck out with useless advice about how it use to be when i was a kid unless asked for it, and surprisingly it is occasionally asked for.

that idea is EXACTLY in alignment with that right use babble your friend was blowin yer fuses with. maybe you might want to reconisder. she might feel the same way about old coots as you do about kids. wouldn't that be a surprise? then again, maybe not. maybe its the guns.

sorry man. like i said, i jes can't help meself. the romantic in me just won't die. i keep shootin. just when i think i finally got his ass he pops up again. maybe its the gun.

saw that lakota story and first thing i did was think of you. second thing i did was yell hallejulah! its about fuckin time!! take this baby full circle right back to those treaties.

today's pop quiz... name one treaty between the US govt and the indian nations that the govt didn't later reneg on.

i'm bummed! winter solstice. mars in direct opposition and at closest approach to earth. moon full. mars and moon rising side by side and strolling hand n' hand across the sky. months of no rain and now we're socked in for daz. i'll dance anyway. intended to start my sun dial and measure the shadow at high noon. i'll do that part in my dreams!

ever danced in the snow naked? YEP!! but then "better judgement" got the best of me and i put my peacock suit back on.

FA... this one's thanks to you and the murphinator for hosting the site. cy's plance was great but now we're really settled in around the fire by the stream. every day is trout clan day.

MURPH... para 5 in your 10:55 sums it up. without change in the human condition, there is no future!! only the past rising up in some new form to further confuse us. that means we have to start with the judgement that says... there's nothing that can be done about the human condition. it is what it is.

ALL... in cahoots!

now i'm off to read the new base line report from the pie monks that just came in to see into what form the collective subconscious is saying the crap will manifest in 08.

Palooka's Revenge said...

well shit... i can't end without a word on denial can i? so here it is... end the denial and you end the fragmentation. end the fragmentation and you end the population problem. happy holidaz...

rockpicker said...


As far as "total energy in versus total energy out," Tom Bearden addresses that point exactly. He very clearly compares his motionless electrical generator to a heat pump system. Each system requires energy input to start the system, and each system collects energy from the environment that you do not have to pay for. You pay for one unit of energy, you collect a certain number more from the environment, you lose some efficiency to the system, but you get back more than you put in because you're collecting from the environment. COP>1 is how it's expressed.
I'm not interested in arguing the greater ramifications for society. I thought we were discussing how to solve immediate needs on a small scale.
Are you prepared to turn down technology that works because of philosophical biases?

Anonymous said...

From sg:

Have to resort to sell some gold to clear off my VISA debt as interest rate was too high. Interest rate in 1 month is more than $700 and running at 24% compounded daily. I got shock when I saw the statement, I was estimated $250 interest. Also, I checked and measured my tricycle. If I dismental it, I have enough physical space to store max 2 units, have to sacrifice the earliest tricycle I bought 2 years ago, which is 100% rusted every where and I have destinated it as garbage collection. My plans are

On the day Isreal invades iran (I estimate between Jan 23rd 2008 to Feb 18th 2008, latest is definitely March 14 2008 Iran elections or March 21st Nuclear power station opens),

6.30am Iran = 10.00am singapore time = 10.00pm New York time = 7.00pm California time

By 8.30am Iran = 12.00pm singapore time = midnight NY time, the news should be every where

I reach home fastest is still 7.00pm singapore time, ate dinner and finish at 8.00pm singapore time. I hope my locks can hold on from 12.00pm to 8.00pm. By that time, I estimate fuel prices should have reached US$9 per gallon, minimum US$6 per gallon, minimum $6 per litre.

8.00pm to 8.30pm strip and dismental 1st newer tricycle. I hope it can fit into the elevator, I measured it can be done but actual might not be able. In the worst case scenario it will be same as before and I have to psychologically prepare for loss of 3 tricycles.

8.30pm to 9.00pm strip and dismental 2nd newer tricycle if I manage to fit into the elevator.

9.30pm Transfer the 15 locks from 2 tricycles to the 2 years old super rusty garbage collector tricycle.

I now adopt Iraq/Baghdad/South Vietnam mental with regrds to these 3 tricycles. It is better to live but lose a bit then to get killed and the professional thief stills gets the tricycle any way. I once visited a small town in Australia in May 2001 and was robbed at gun point of A$1,050 cash and all my cards, 2 years later at the same location a German backpacker was murdered in the same time, since then I have adopted the death strikes any time mentality.

murph said...


Turn down technology on philosophical bias? LOL. Shall we redefine this as philosophical principal instead of bias? Everyone at this site is lamenting the degradation of the environment. Well, what do you blame that on? I see it as the use of technology. In the end bottom line of accounts, technology (at least as we know it today) is a non sustainable accomplishment, it always involves more input than output.

In you comment, you were not adding in the energy input to make the unit. Is it like the electric or combination autos? The amount of energy and materials to make the new cars exceeds the energy savings for over 5 years of driving. Sure don't look like a sustainable trade off to me.

Now, also do this math. How many machines that take energy from the environment can be sustained for how long?

There have been a multitude of people looking for the golden machine that will sustain us as we have been for the last 150 years of high energy usage, and wastefulness. I do not anticipate seeing that when the oil is not available. But , who knows.

Got to admit Rockpicker, I am not a technology freak. I can do perfectly fine with the older stuff. And it is not that I don't find it interesting and in a minor amount of examples, maybe even does something positive for humans. But I see most of the technology as being destructive on the environment, destructive to human relationships, often more adapted to making war than anything else, and always uses more material and energy than you get back. To think that is is possible to get more than you put in means you have to violate a whole bunch of physics, at least as we see the universe at this time. I'll not be so brazen to say impossible, but I will assert unlikely.

I have read some of Tom Bearden stuff. I think he misses the point. It is all very fine to build a machine that has no less than parity of energy, but he has not talked about energy needed to build it or obtain the materials.

As far as immediate needs goes, I sure am interested in how any of these systems are going to ultimately give parity for the energy in to energy out equation. Temporary fixes are not the answer I believe. I suspect that a temporary and immediate need in energy will only become meaningful when we reduce demand.

I have been reading a bunch of Derrick Jensen's stuff. The guy is radical in the extreme compared to contemporary thinking. But... is he right?


I am curious, where are you figuring to try and get to with 2 tricycles when Israel attacks Iran?

Anonymous said...

From sg: Remeasured my 2 newer tricycle today, I have 80% chance of confidence the 2 newer ones can fit into elevator door if I dismental it into 2 pieces . I have a total of 3 tricycles. The width fits with about 10cm/4 inches to spare, the length is about 90cm/3 feet long for each half section, which is less than height of a human. I have only enough physical space to store 2 units. The last tricycle, which was bought 2 years ago and is terribly rusty and destinated as garbage truck, will have to remain downstairs. I will secure the last tricycle with secure locks from the 2 good tricycles when I do the migration, which will occur when I hear from radio/read the internet/watch the tv that iran is boomed by isreal or the stock market crashes. The tricycle will be used as a short range say 5km when I need to deliver or receive large heavy goods. My main plan for usage of the tricycle is as I live about 500m from the river, the tricycle has a carrying load capacity of max 300KG/300 litres/660 pounds, I will use the tricycle to ship 100 litres of sea/river water per tricycle to my apartment block downstairs, where a minimum of 4 water distill kit, powered by 100 laser discs will be doing water distillation. The water distill kit vendor has verbally promised to provide glass holders for distill kits 5-8 as he made a mistake with round bottom flask which cannot stand on its own. In the event of no sun, the solar panels and batteries will be providing heat for water distillation, that is where the solar panels and batteries come in. I estimate 8 water distill kit can produce minimum 500 litres of pure water per day, in the event of plentiful of sun. The excess water can be stored for usage in case of days where no sun and no batteries. The only problem is the tricycle is not rust proof and there is high chance cannot take salty seawater for more than 1 year. I still have not found a solution to rust proof the tricycle yet, no one does it for tricycles, only for commercial cars and trucks. Everthing is tied together as a complex solution. I am not trying to get to any where, if I have to flee I will use my 5 inflatable kayaks with 4 good quality life jackets instead of my 3 tricycles.

Today, some one abandoned a 2.5KG fire extinguisher, bought in 2005 Dec, service date of chemical expires Dec 2006, if I send for service today it will expire Dec 2008 inside my garbage tricycle. Since the loss of one tricycle I have checked all my tricycle locks every morning and evening. I got a free fire extinguisher except I need to send for chemical servicing when I got more money and found vendor. I placed this fire extingisher inside the water pipes cabinet outside my apartment, so any one can use it. I not concerned about theft as it is free and I have not send it for servicing yet.

Anonymous said...

From sg: Another possible use for my 3 tricycles when every thing is under control: 1 for garbage truck, 2 as cab service as seen in hanava, cuba. Havana: A horse drawn carriage plying the streets of the cuban capital. This mode of travelling takes care of 40% of local travelling needs, proving that motorised transport is not the only way to getting around. Photo is from AP.

Anonymous said...

From Belgium,

Best wishes to everyone who visits here for the holiday season and the foreseeable future.

Two things, first a response to Anon 3.48 and then a reply to Murph.

It is sometimes said that the United Nations is a dissemination forum for the PTB. I am not coming down either way on that but let’s take worst case scenario and say it is. It then follows that if the UN says Iran does not have and is unlikely to have WMD then they are indeed very unlikely to have them now or in the future. This of course could be regarded by some, as a similar subterfuge to the PTB’s attitude to population control whilst overtly supporting the World health organization. The US Government has an ambivalent stance towards the UN depending on whether the UN agrees with proposed actions of the US or not. The US wants a war with Iran but of all the reasons that are out there, Iran acquiring WMD is the most spurious of all since the US supports Pakistan’s nuclear program and is giving India all the nuclear technology it wants. More compelling reasons are (1) Israel wants it; (2) benefits of the arms market to members and extended family members of the administration; (3) Iran’s stance on the petrodollar and (4) the fact that Iran views the levying of compound interest as a crime of usury. The US would like to use the UN for joint complicity in its proposed adventure but if the UN is intransigent then the US will in all likelihood go it alone.
I did like your turn of phrase “Construction of the plant… was delayed because of lack of financing and delayed equipment deliveries from other countries”. What happened was that Iran did not meet its arranged stage payments and Russia withheld delivery of the fuel rods. Now the Bushier Plant has a little active uranium on site, which it is not presidential to bomb as opposed to depleted uranium which is just as deadly but very presidential to use in bombs, the US now has a very small window of opportunity to get its attack together. As FA has euphemistically suggested, maybe the military sees things differently to the Administration. One way or another, I am surprised that France is opposed to the war on WMD grounds since their present administration is doing all it can to cozy itself up to Bush.


Your recent replies are just as confusing as the international situation, so it is time to come clean time.
I don’t think that you will find much disagreement here with the position that all developments and proposed developments must be considered in the round either from the beginning or at some break point in the development process. I doubt anyone would fault the pesticide example you quoted. IMO the correct response to the Gypsy Moth infestation would be to breed or otherwise introduce large quantities of the Gypsy Moths natural predator and then let nature sort out any imbalance at a later stage.
You say the old ways work and there is nothing wrong with them. I will not fault that but how far back do you want to go? For instance it is not necessary to put an electric motor on a meat mincer / grinder, your grandmother had a hand crank one that worked fine. But, most likely, fossil fuels were used to melt the alloy during its manufacture. Does this make it not ok to use? Would it be better if a wood burning furnace was used? Then what about the emissions? Is that a case for not having minced / ground meat? I guess it is not essential to our way of life but sometimes nice to have as are many other things I could have picked on.

Where do you draw your line? It appears to be very far to one side. This is not intrinsically bad, it is just where it is but we are trying to understand the implications of it. If, for instance, this really is your position then why do you have a car(s)? I do understand that bringing back a years’ supply of food and drink from Bend on the bus would be a bit of an ass but is it justified in manufacturing energy audit and emission audit terms? The same argument would still apply even if you had the stuff delivered.
Are you proposing an eighteenth century English village or a tribal or possibly an Amish lifestyle? Again there is nothing wrong with this, we just want to know that this is what it is. Maybe an Amish with guns is how you see it. There again you have to do an energy audit on the manufacture of the weapons and the ammo and compare it to the amount of useful service they see. When robo cop walks down the middle of your street with his state of the art machine rifle and says “Get in the back of the wagon”, are you going to meet him a blowpipe and curare tipped darts because you have a problem with the energy audit of your gun?

This is really not meant to be a personal attack. It is dead easy to sit here and play logical conclusions but we would like a bit more clarification on where your line is.

I am more in tune with Rockpicker’s stance that we should utilize knowledge we have gained to make a sustainable lifestyle which has as many of the benefits of what we now experience as is possible. If we have got used to a shower and a clean T shirt every day should we not try to keep this going as long as possible if we can use our pooled knowledge to jury rig something. If we have to go back to the three shirt rota our grandparents knew then so be it, they survived and so hopefully will we. Should we not use our knowledge to make the life we have as easy as possible in the most sustainable way we can.

Are our positions so far apart?

Anonymous said...

Salutations,my sisters and brothers,well we made it for one more year and hopefully we have earned and learned some of which we came to have fun with,this one certainly has, one thinks anyway,the mechanics of our lives have been investigated to the bone and have come up wanting it seems, and the replacements for the creation of and the sustainability of modern
society's useless earth polluting junk is crap, but
will continue until the last electric dildo fizzles out and the women reach for the kitchen knifes out of frustration because their mates are to tired from competing with other power driven brothers (or sisters) to take care of business at home,at that point the full evolution of "what the fuck were we thinking" will force a radical change in the prospective of "man this really sucks",and we will advance to just throwing rocks at each other and then learn to make better beer or some other fine endeavor.

After living on the edge without the so called benefits of civilization the one thing that stands out in the mind is a WASHING MACHINE,, sounds dumb but who here has actually washed their own clothes by hand every time they need to be washed?
the case is rested.
o shit, then the idea of wait a minute how about if we beat the fuck out of someone and make them wash our clothes, hey thats a damn good idea,unless of course your are the one getting the beating and then its a different story all together.
well what if we trade something to get the clothes washed by hand,(as we did in mexico) sooooo the beginning of the end starts there???

to hell with that,we are smart, a washing machine in every home and the little woman will be happy, and consent to the male ruttege without whining about it to much and we will all live happily ever after.

so instead of unlimited free energy,(think sun),how about just a fucking washing machine boys and we can all go fishing till the end of days and contemplate the origins of the universe until hell freezes over.

ah shucks it twernt nothin.

just full of the earth shattern stuff, just ask.

thanks p , just discovered your email side tracked into the go away i'm busy box and rescued it before the mandatory hotmail thinkforyou button hit delete. and will get back to you on that, it requires some head scratching for sure but like the idea for kicking it around some and will reply here, for the clan to light up if its merit is as clean as it first looks.,this idea of healing emotion is really something to look at and will consult with the bug about it for sure,(she thinks this one is a pig sometimes and shes right about that too) but what the fuck, perfect went out the window with the first drawn breath,and a burr under the saddle has been the path for this one ever since.

lets make this year something to really write home about guys,what do you say,?

sg, this one is puzzled,could you please describe just exactly what your tricycle looks like?how big and whatnot? sounds like a very valuable piece of equipment to me,hard to imagine its features, is it motorized ?
and all those locks just blows my mind, being here in montana in a village where nothing i have is locked except for my tool shed and thats to keep the kids from hurting them selfs by playing with them.

peace for the new year and am ready in anticipation for all the new insanity on our way to poke fun at.(we hope,right?)

murph said...

Belgium and Rockpicker,

Lol, now I am being a Luddite?

I began a reply to your questions and comments and it rapidly became a post. sigh. I couldn't really make a thoughtful and reasonably concise reply in a couple of paragraphs. So, after the holidays, I will put it up on this subject. Hold those thought till then.

freeacre said...

Oh, My Gawd, Montana!! I was practically rolling around on the floor with laughter at your observations. You are like the Richard Prior of Indians, only better...AND BRILLIANT!
Rockpicker and Belgium - you seem to have picked up on the debate that the Murphinator and I have much of the time. It boils down to me accusing him of not being able to recognize a good thing when he sees it, and him telling me I can't recognize a bad thing when I see it. To my consternation, both of us appear to be right.
Happily, that is what differing perspectives are for. When you put them all together, you manage to muddle through somehow.
"When robo cop walks down the middle of your street with his state of the art machine rifle and says “Get in the back of the wagon”, are you going to meet him a blowpipe and curare tipped darts because you have a problem with the energy audit of your gun?" .... ho, ho, ho...Really, it's a shame we can't all sit around a real campfire one of these days and pass the peace pipe and laugh our butts off.
Of course, I am here for you guys, driving Murph insane with my idea of a small, two-seater blimp run by a little electric fan. It would get us to Montana quite well, especially if the wind was with us.
I want one.
Well, gotta run out to the store and get some bird food. Have a happy day.

Anonymous said...

From sg: This is the closest to my tricycle photo I can find.
Mine does not have front basket and is made in china of cheap metal. It costs less than $100 in china, $250 some time ago, now it cost $400 for the complete rusted one and $700 new. The first one 1 bought 2 years ago has completely rusted at handles, wheels, and the entire cart behind. The second one bought 9 months ago has 50% rust at handles 20% rust at wheels and 20% rust at cart behind. The third one still looks new as only 1 week old.

Anonymous said...

From sg: Found exact image of tricycle, except the seat is add on by the owner of the tricycle.

Anonymous said...

From sg: Even better, I managed to find the same exact model in singapore as seen in photo, that is why I saw it orginally used.

Anonymous said...

Other images of the exact tricycle in singapore. Very rarely seen in road now a days but still fully functional. The photos did not reveal that the tricycle cannot handle rust well at all. I not sure what to do when my first tricycle completely rusts in less than 1 year time.**http%3A//

Anonymous said...

From sg: This is the closet to how my first tricycle looks like now. Look at extent of rust on the identical tricycle. The only conclusion is that this model of tricycle rusts very fast, no matter where it in the world it is physically located. The discovery of this fact today means I have to mentally prepare for write off of all the tricycles due to theft or rust or depreciation pretty soon. I will investigate other means of transport large heavy items that do not rust so fast. As in gambling or competition or trading in the stock exchange, you cannot win or lose all the time. You learn your lessons on how to cut back your losses and move on.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

From sg: This is George Bush overseas trip for the year 2008, as taken from CNN today.

Financial news for next 1 week
27th Dec 2007: Key report on consumer confidence level
28th Dec 2007: US Govt releases data on new homes sales for Nov 2007.

George bush trips starts here

In early January, Bush flies to Israel for his first visit as president. While in the region, he also will visit the West Bank, Kuwait, Bahrain, the United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia and Egypt. The trip is a follow-up to the Israeli-Palestinian talks that the U.S. hosted in Annapolis, Maryland, last month. Jan 8th to 16th 2008.

In February, Bush will tour Africa, where U.S. public health initiatives are popular. That will be followed by an April North Atlantic Treaty Organization summit in Romania, a June U.S.-European summit in Slovenia, a July meeting of Group of Eight leaders in Japan, the summer Olympics (August 8th to 24th 2008) in Beijing China and a November Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation forum in Peru. Bush is likely to visit other, nearby countries during those trips.

Bush last day in office is Jan 20th 2009.

murph said...


I am amazed at what you are telling us about rust and deterioration of your trikes. Can't they be covered in some kind of paint to stop the corrosion? The salt air must be death on most metal surfaces there. I've never lived where the air would be salty like near the ocean. In Michigan, they salted the roads so much that for a number of years, you could figure on a car holding together for maybe 6 years due to the salt corrosion. Had to go to extreme lengths to keep cars from just flat falling apart.

Be interesting to see what Georgie Pie is gonna say and do about the economy that he has managed to kill off almost totally. I figure they are waiting till after Xmas to announce just how bad it is. sigh.

Anonymous said...

From sg: I will probably repaint the 3 tricycles within next 2 months when I got more $ and time, assuming that nothing bad occurs before end Feb 2008. I need to repaint the body, the handles and the wheels. The newest tricycle bought 1 week ago to replace stolen one is completely new of course, within 3 months I expect the new tricycle 10%-20% rust on handle, 10% rust on body and 5% rust on wheels, judging from experience on the first 2 tricycles. I estimate new paint needed every 3 months to maintain this tricycle but there is no way of knowing the extent of corrorsion under the paint. That is why I am now hoping for the best by buying many locks to secure all the tricycles but also mentally prepared for the worst case of having to write off the 3 tricycles or the tricycles get stolen within another 5 years time, assuming that I am still alive by Dec 2012, as previously I predicted that once economic crisis/war in middle east starts, the only soln to solve the problem is just like in the new movie I am Legend, spread biological weapons every where such that 99.75% or more of human population becomes extinct.

Anonymous said...

From sg: I rechecked the financial hyper inflation chart again and hyper inflation started in Oct 2007 and follows exponential curve, so Oct 2007 is nothing compared to 1 year later. This saturday/sunday I will move my newer 2 tricycles to outside my home. Still not enough space inside my home to fit in the 2 tricycles, at least some space outside and I do not have to rush when Iran gets invaded/economic crash. And the oldest tricycle you saw the approximate condition, I mentally prepared to condemn it/scrap it as in bad condition now.

freeacre said...

I find myself more optomistic than you, SG. Even if there was a limited war in the Middle East or in Eastern Europe, I don't see how it would necessarily devastate Singapore. And, I sure don't see it lending itself to the release of plagues to wipe us all off the face of the earth. I mean, we can't even get these Bozos to back up birth control! Some of them may want a massive demand reduction (population reduction/die off), but most of them want us to continue to charge on the credit cards and be indentured servants for the foreseeable future. Can't have it both ways.
Personally, I'm putting my energy into imagining the weakening grasp of the death culture as they run into the wall in terms of Peak Everything and Monetary Collapse. I'm hoping that freedom and justice loving people all over the place will take up the challenge to create a more meaningful, sustainable, and just way to live.
I'm glad that Bush will be out of the country so much of the time nest year. Maybe he could go to his ranchero in Patagonia or wherever it is and start to decorate the new digs after he gets tired of the world telling him what a vacuous ballsack he is. I think that if the neo-cons somehow manage to start a war with Iran, all hell will break loose. The blowback might be that Ron Paul really does get elected and the empire is dismantled.
Anyway, there are many possible scenarios for next year, all of which are intense. Let's look at it this way: we were born for this! Bring it on.

stoney13 said...


They make paint over here in the Staes called "POR 15" that KILLS all rust! It's expensive, but it works!

If we could hook up one of those trikes to Montana Freeman's washing machine, then we could have freshly laundered clothes with no beatings involved! Of course we would have to find somebody to do the pedaling, but that shouldn't be too hard! Just find the nearest "suit" wandering around looking for the closest "Starbuck's"!

Put him on the seat, hang a picture of a twenty dollar bil in front of him, dump in the soap and water, and watch the magic happen!


I wouldn't worry too much about "robo-cop"! We'll just dig a damn big hole in the path, cover it with thatch and dirt, and wait for gravity to do what it does!

Afterwards, our old-fashioned semi-automatic firearms can be used against the sad bastard in the bottom of the hole, since shooting from the bottom of a hole at something at the top is something damn near impossible! IEDs can also be tossed in to the hole untill all movement ceases to happen! No more robo-cop!

We can drag out the wagon, and that zippy new automatic rifle, because such shit can be very, VERY handy!

Palooka's Revenge said...

sg.... here's an option... rough up all the chrome finish on yer trike with steel wool. it comes in different grades (or grits). i'd use a #4 coarse. rough it up good. you might try emory cloth as well. its like sand paper on a fabric base instead of paper. here in states we have litheum based lube in a spray can that comes w/a needle tube taped to the can. silicon based would work too (wd 40 very popular here in states) but lith base greese would be much better. you probably have something similar. attach the tube and spray the workings with the lube. wipe off any overspray on the frame etc with a cloth soaked in denatured alcohol. next, wipe down the whole frame w/a cloth soaked with laquer thinner or mineral spirits. it will pick up any fine dust left from the wooling job and the oil. steel wool contains oil. you want this bugger clean. do this on the chromed areas only. anything painted should be okay as long as you get it clean. then clear coat the whole thing. should be available in a spray can. if the cloth "hooks" as you wipe, sand some more until it don't. not very environmentally friendly but the clear coat should do the job if you can get a bond. just try not to get the clear coat in the workings. the lube should help protect but you can use a guard rag while applying the clear coat.

suggest you experiment with a not-so-rusted area on one of the older trikes to see if you get a good bond of the clear coat. once it dries try scraping it off. if it peels you haven't got a good bond. if you have to scrape to get it off you're in high cotton. thats a good thing. if you have a bond prob go to a paint supply store and seek advice. or auto supply. the clear coat is a product used in that industry as well. you may have to prime coat first. if fact, you might want to do that and then apply a top coat of paint and then the clear coat. what makes or breaks the deal is that first coat and the bond. the job will seal off exposure to oxygen. no oxygen, no oxidation. on the rusted areas you'll never get all the rust off. but if you steel wool it hard enough you should be able to get down to hard, smooth but scratched, surface. it might well take a bond and you've salvaged your trike. one things fer sur, if it works on rusted area it will work on the new bike.

when you do the coat, go light. let it cure and check for bond. once you've got the bond give it 2-3 more coats. just heavy enough each time that it doesn't run. if the first coat bonds, the rest will.

make sure you take the chain off before you start. spray it seperatly with the lube. keep it and the works lubed and it will help hold the rust back from the workings.

option 2... give the thing an alkaline detergent bath regularly. but do the greese thingie to the working parts after every time you bathe. alkaline detergents are what are put on stuff after its sand or glass blasted to keep it from rusting until a new finish can be applied.

option 3... take the whole thing to a powder coat shop. have them blast it and then powder coat it. good luck... p

Anonymous said...

Hello freeacre and murph, and everyone who visits. Freeacre and Murph thank you for keeping the fire going and bringing us all along. Visiting here is like taking a vitamin and mentally sustaining as well and probably way more appreciated than you could know. Holy days will come and go but you guys are always here. You're beautiful. I love you. Everyone have a safe and happy new year's eve. Peace & Love, mrsp

Anonymous said...

From singapore: POR 15 is available in singapore and this month I still have sufficient cash after selling some gold, after clearing off all my VISA and every credit card debt to buy 1 gallon of metal ready and 1 quart of POR 15 rust prevention paint USA is US$31.75 for 1 gallon (About 3.79 litres) of metal ready and 1 quart (0.946 litre) of POR15 US$40.75. Total is about US$72.50, about $100 at current exchange rate, the local reseller quoted me $160 which I still can afford this month. I must spend this amount as this is compulsory. I now operating in 100% cash saving mode after the great financial mistake I made 2 months ago. This morning wake up to read singapore electric rate will rise 6% to 22.5 cents per kwh from Jan 1st 2008. I now keep record of what I have stored inside my refrigrator to avoid open/close doors too many times. I cannot buy new 4 star energy saving refrigrator + freezer at $400 due to my wife now controls my cash in wallet and gives me only $10 per day. She also cancelled all my credit cards and debit cards and took my ATM cards away too.

Anonymous said...

Sept 2007 - Burma troops killed monks demanding more food etc....
1929 to 1932 - US Army killed us world war 1 who served as soldiers, with machine guns as they demand immediate payout of cash instead of waiting until 1940. So killing to save $ is normal and is expected of any government, who will use guns to prevent retirement/bank funds withdrawal. If guns are not used, the alternative solution is russian style declare all savings in banks wipeout immediately resulting in hyperinflation. History shows hyperinflation occurs no matter what the governments do, in fact they encourage hyperinflation and reduce of pure silver content in silver coins to solve their own problems. A new third option newly available is to wipe out as many humans as possible using war/bioweapons.

freeacre said...

We love you back, mrsp.

And, our best to you, awesome Mrs. Singapore Guy.

Anonymous said...

Happy Holidays and best wishes for success and happiness in the coming new year. I really enjoy reading your blog and would like to talk to you both off site sometime. would this be possible? If so send me an email address in which I can contact you. Thanks :-)

Anonymous said...

folks it finally happened, this one became one of those "its who you know that counts"kind of guys!
was passenger in a truck driven by one of the sons visiting from spokane wa and was pulled over by the local chief of police,and asked the usual intimidating bullshit (license,insurance,registration) and was on the verge of writing a $85 ticket for running our very own stop sign,(rolling california stop) because he did not know my son and city hall splits up the ticket and they pick on out of state folks like the vultures they are.. . when he noticed me setting in the passenger seat, smiled said "hi montana,"gave back the license and told my son "your lucky i know the guy in the truck with you." he gave me a wink and we drove off and lunch was on the son of course. (no the dude ain't gay,..hummm,i don't think so anyway),
got a funny feeling about the event and said to myself "so thats what its all about, the power to go above the law by just knowing someone, can see why its sought after"
kind of puts one above the ordinary run of the mill sub human.
what a crock of shit!!

but the big steak was delicious

we will never change will we?
morals just seems to be another one of those mind games that keeps us from trying to find out whats really going on,

fuck!! just when i thought i had it by the tail to!
o well,piss on it.

hey good to hear from you mrsp, hope all is well in your neck of the woods,we love you.
hope the holy days of renewal have left you debt free and frisky for the coming debacle of how humans intend to continue to give us a great source of pleasure and gratitude for the insanity that prevails and just thrills me(at least for this one) to the bone,(joke)(maybe).
ah hell, you know what i mean.

there were a few teenagers over visiting my son last night as i eavesdropped on their conversations (after all the bedroom doors are adjacent to each other and open) why in the fuck do i always seem to have to explain myself, that sucks big time!
anyway i was surprised to hear them talking about something other then basketball, cars,music,getting laid,or not,and world conditions would slip into the conversations, as in school politics and how fucked up they were and i realized that they have an intuitive grasp upon the essentials of the powergame also and how it is played.hummmmm, maybe there is light at the tunnels end after all. who woulda thought?/

yeh i know this is all kind of ho humm but its that kind of day and i just wanted to wear out the keyboard so i could get a new one that didn't have beer stains all over it and having to use tweezers to pull up the letter Q. fuck, being destitute certainly has its upsides for sure,wander what the hell they are anyway?

thanks for the cookies you know who, the teenage vultures found them and i had one hell of a time fighting them off just to get a nibble, for christ's sakes who invented those douche bags anyway??

not much on the indian front, did notice that some of the young bucks sporting trendy crew cuts are letting their hair grow,hummm looks good on them, glad to see some of the brothers and sisters getting a grip on their real identity back in focus,and stop playing the stupid world destroying bullshit games that has had them by the nutsacks for so long,wait a minute girls don't have nutsacks, o excuse meeeee, forgot about HILLERY!!
man that bitch gives me the absolute creeps like i mean scary scary. would never want to look under her dress, would you? would you??freak me out for sure, imagine her for president,? and la bamba for vice? half the country would commit hairy carrey for sure, if they didn't they should.
must be some strange weed going around, and speaking of weed the new marijuana garden will be in part guarded by the town police, is that a hoot? or what.
first they put me in prison for growing the shit now its legal to grow it in montana and my protection rights of said crop will fall into equal time category of car theft!! what a wander we are, totally fucking amazing.

picture this , "hey chief, i've had people eye balling my crop will you give an extra drive by down the ally to ensure the survival of my marijuana crop?"
man i feel like i'm in disneyland for sure, or it may just be one of those really strong LSD flashbacks from the sixties. regardless it makes me high just thinking about it so will close on that note and fire up a fat one.

peace and honor to each of you on this beautiful morning in the falling snow.

Anonymous said...

good to have you at the camp,clicked your site but not much there,anyway welcome to the land of god only knows what.
the more the merrier i say,we'll just throw another potato in the pot for you.

Palooka's Revenge said...

anon @ 6:14... its the set-up. look left. but be careful you don't turn into a liberal! : - ).the holy grail is the survival info link @ top of home page... extensive info there.

Anonymous said...

X-prime minister Bhutto of Pakistan has been murdered in Pakistan(the place where radicals could get a hold of nukes, that Bushco has completely ignored while pursuing not-at-all-threatening-Iraq). What a great excuse for I mean Mursharif to declare more lockdown. Sorry to ruin our Holy days of bliss but this news hits me hard. There's a pattern forming here not sure what it means but I think Pakistan is a very serious situation. And most everyone over there on all sides, including factions that are sympathetic to Taliban, thinks the U.S. has no crediblility, along with the rest of the world. The biggest threat to the u.s. according to all it's own fumbling incompetent experts, is a nuclear weapon. What a pot of ugliness we've stirred. Let us pray. What else can we do? Sorry I'm va-clempt by this news. mrsp

freeacre said...

My anxiety level goes up with the news of the Bhutto assasination, too, mrs.p. Seems like another example of the neocons losing their grip. I don't know, of course, but it seemed that she was the next designated puppet - and now that won't be happening. So, what? Is the Taliban a step closer to the nuclear button? Will India feel the urge to strike Pakistan first before they nuke them? Good grief. Don't these foreigners know that this may have a negative impact on our shopping imperative? Dick Chaney may feel compelled to drop a lug on them, just to insure that our American Way of Life (AWOL)is not interrupted by these crazy, yet numerous, little brown people. Ye Gods! Lock 'n Load.
Welcome! I love your site. Very useful info. Going to purchase some string and boric acid soon to make candles, after reading your essay on candle- making. I've e-mailed you. Hope you include yourself in our tribe.

Anonymous said...

From Belgium,

Nothing happens without a reason and we can all play guess who had the best reason.
This is interesting - pre Bhutto situation I wonder if they will do an update.