Wednesday, October 15, 2008

SOME PERSPECTIVES

by Murph

Ok, Ok, the subject is not what we intended with this next post. Freeacre and I are still stumbling around trying to decide on how to present the anniversary post of the Trout Clan Camp Fire. Besides, our anniversary isn’t until the 24th, (thus saith freeacre on the subject).

If you are reading all the stuff that is on the internet about the current economic meltdown, you know that we are in serious trouble. Principally the credit markets are drying up, completely. Because of how we have structured our economic system, everything, and I mean everything runs on credit. Without credit, no trucks run, no business buys inventory, nothing works. I had been anticipating the same thing happening but not from credit drying up. I was figuring on it happening because of the high price or oil. The effect is going to be the same. There won’t be anything for sale when the inventories are gone. The difference is how sudden this situation comes on. With high oil prices, I think it would be slower in that there would be a gradual decrease in the availability of consumer goods. However, in my case, I got a surprise, and since I like to say that we are in for surprises, I guess this is one of them for me.

I suspect that the next weeks are going to indicate whether this credit freeze will be backed up some or not. So far, everything the government has done hasn’t helped at all, just made things even worse. The principle reason this appears to be so is that the fixes are by trying to operate within the economic system. Instead of hanging the crooks and liars out to dry, we are supporting them. I don’t recall any example where a problem is fixed by continuing the problem, but then again, maybe I’m just an old curmudgeon.

I read on LATOC this morning that Paulson literally told the 9 largest bankers on Monday that they ARE going to sell interests in their banks to the government. Read about it here. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/15/business/economy/15bailout.html?em

Notice this quote; “No one expected him to present his plan as an ultimatum. Mr. Paulson, according to his own account, presented his case in blunt terms. The nation’s largest banks needed to begin lending to each other for the good of the financial system, he said in a telephone interview, recalling his remarks. To do that, they needed to be better capitalized”.

And this: “Mr. Kovacevich [if Wells Fargo] is also said to have expressed concern about restrictions on executive compensation at banks that receive capital injections. If he steps down from Wells Fargo after completing a planned takeover of Wachovia, he would be entitled to retirement benefits worth about $43 million, and $140 million in accumulated stock and options, according to James F. Reda & Associates, a executive pay consulting firm. Pay experts say the new Treasury limits would probably not affect his exit package”. Well Fargo had stated at the meeting that they were not undercapitalized and didn’t need the money.

Whatever leverage Paulson used to get this signed agreement, it worked to the tune of $1.2 trillion. Now, what this means is that all the private banks will be owned, at least in part, by the government. That, my friends, is socialistic fascism. I also read on several sites about the economic war between the American financial elite and the European elite, principally through the banks. All of this appears to be a contest of who is going to control the liquidity flowing around the world, that is, who has the money to loan. It should be obvious by now that this global ponzi scheme is completely based on debt, ie, the ability to loan money, collect interest on it and sell the debt off to some other fool. It appears to me that this is the final bid for global economic domination. Whoever gets hurt by this is just collateral damage, figured into the bottom line.

I read an article on Carolyn Baker’s site that says we should be in mass protest to our government officials over this issue. Here is the article; http://carolynbaker.net/site/content/view/784/1/

Well, we can honestly say that mass protests by anything under a 10 million head count doesn’t count for much with the government. Look at the fairly massive protests that took place during the Congressional House debate on the Paulson bail out plan. It was eventually passed anyway with all kinds of pork added. We are flat out not yet going to have the impetuous for anything near a 10 million consensus in this country, about anything. Plus, how many people are sitting around hoping someone will come up with the magic bullet and fix it all anyway.

We rant and rave about the incompetent SOB’s in government. But, I am going to assert that rather than being incompetent, they are following a plan laid out by the real power brokers in this world. I truly find it hard to believe that those in the power positions to make decisions are unable to evaluate the information coming to them and make decisions that would make sense to the rest of us. Rather, I think this trashing of the worlds economies is deliberate and will fulfill a ‘plan’, whatever that ‘plan’ is. This of course opens all kinds of speculation about the nature of the ‘plan’. When I look at the manipulations of the world’s societies, I can’t help but assume that ‘plan’ is going to be malicious and malevolent for the rest of us and benefit only a tiny minority of the population. Wouldn’t it be something to find out in the end that the top power brokers in the world actually had the best intentions toward the populations that they controlled? Bwaaa haaaa haaaa. Let’s just completely negate all of history while we are at it.

Watch the rest of this week carefully to see if something comes up to relieve the stresses on the economy, even if temporarily. At least that would give people a bit more time to get ready for the really big hit that will come no matter what. All in all, it appears that this crash is going to be a fast one. Comrade Simba has a pretty neat post up about his preparations. Several other sites talk about their efforts to get as self sustaining as possible, survival acres and George Ure are examples. The question will now be: are any of these preparations going to be successful? Are we all going to get sucked into the extreme poverty bin put out for us by the elite? I am reading all kinds of personal testimony of the casualties of this economic mess. I sure as hell know it will be a very cold day in hell before I use a cardboard box under a viaduct for a home, besides I’m getting too old to climb into dumpsters for my daily sustenance. If you haven’t already, get stocked up to ride out a financial hurricane coming at you. It sure enough appears that all the problems we have been predicting for the last 4 years are happening right now. It’s gonna be a cold winter folks.

53 comments:

Anonymous said...

From Belgium,

Temporary nationalisation of the banks, if only in part, allows for a certain level of checks and balances which makes the banking elite accountable. That’s why they hate it so much. They would much prefer business as usual and screw everybody else – except when they have their hand held out. Somebody should tell them they look like a bell boy. That simple fact alone should give the people a little window of comfort. So it would appear that Mr Paulson has always recognised that $T0.75 is putty in a leaking dam and is actually trying to fix the problem. I hope his solution is not going to stick in the throat of the leader of the free world or his pit bull.

To pick up on a previous comment from Ras, leaders of previous empires, largely started believing their own material. Their hubris made them believe in their own invincibility and they couldn’t see when they were overextending themselves in some way. They were eventually overthrown by new rising cultures or those with new ideas. The difference this time around is that the downfall of empire is planned and those in the planning room have explored all the possibilities before making their move. It seems to me that the big mistake European money made was letting those pesky American whippersnappers control their own oil. Then they got too big for their boots and the tail started wagging the dog. Maybe what we see now is the dog wagging back. I don’t know how it will all play out but we could be in for a new dark age.

Anonymous said...

oil falls below 75

exxon plunges 14%

dow down 733 - biggest loss since crash of '87

bailout euphoria gone

grim sales data knocks consumer stocks - wal mart falls 8%

well duh!!!! the criminals run around pulling rabbits otta the hat with billions to their buds under the auspicious claim of thawing the credit freeze to get goodies moving again while out on mainstreet its... WTF FOR??, we aint got any money to buy anything anyway!!

...p

murph said...

Belgium,

Indeed a new dark age is a possibility.

I have very rudimentary knowledge of the power structure of the financial world in Europe. Here, the government is what brought on this problem. The fact that the same problem is also true in most of Europe would maybe lend one to assume it is the same kind of power structure we have here. Is it not government that is the problem in the first place? If this is so, then what level of checks and balances to force accountability are you referring to? In our case, the checks and balances have been gutted over the years and we have put the perps in charge of cleaning it up. Is that also what is happening in Europe over this situation?

If it is indeed true that there is a battle over which continent is going to control the money, will Europe's attacking this credit crunch be similar to the U.S.? Are the European banksters any less powerful than the U.S. equivalent? For that matter, I read one analysis that accused the bank of England of setting this whole thing up.

What's your take on this?

Anonymous said...

Is it not government that is the problem in the first place?

i'll go out on the provervial limb and show my unsolicitated ass... AKA opinion... on this. We can blame govt (or whatever else "out there") until hell freezes over. Govts are no more than a reflection of the people. Until we GET THIS fundamental fact, we'll keep gettin what we're gettin... p

murph said...

Palooka,

I agree. Ultimately government will reflect the society. However, we then have to answer the question if society can be manipulated to adopt different values. I would assert yes it can.

Anonymous said...

murph... well there's no doubt the pub can be manipulated. into just about anything at this point in its devolution! however, i seriously doubt the wisdom of manipulation in any form. the kind of "values" necessary for this job have to come from integrity of the soul.

the soul... not to be confused with a fundalmentalist interpretation of that. i'm talking free spirit here. not some mumbo jumbo, guilt ridden, fear of god twisted concept of something that don't even exist beyond the guilt and mis-interpretation. but the energies involved are definitly in play.. p

freeacre said...

Well, I think that governments throughout history pretty much serve at the pleasure of THE BANKS. Started with the Vatican setting up credit through their Knights Templar, if memory serves... It's like Toto has just yanked the curtain that was hiding the Wizards of Finance... and now we are lookin' at 'em.

Cultures are reflections of the people in them, to my mind. Governments, more remotely. Only certain people have any influence over institutional foundations of the rulers, like banks, royalty, or the Vatican.

It's just jaw-dropping to watch what is going on with the stock market. If Berneke and Paulson had any class they'd be sticking themselves in the gut with a sword right about now. (By the way, where are Fulford's freaking Ninjas? Must a gone the way of the Y2K, Harmonic Convergence and the Hale Bot Comet Losers...). Well, maybe a fast crash is the plan. We will probably never know. The eventual winners will write the history.
It's all getting to bizarro for me. Who in their right mind would ever invest any money that they might need in the stock market today? Now there isn't even an illusion of it not being manipulated, or is it just me?
Like Kunstler says, "it's time to make other arrangements."

Anonymous said...

From Belgium,

Murph,

I would like to tell you that the Government is between a rock and a hard place but truth is that power is hard and the people are soft which makes the job a whole lot easier. Was it not Barnham, the nephew of Sigmund Freud who worked out the rules for mass psychology and is the father of all marketing and advertising techniques? If you hit the right psychological buttons people will follow like children after the Pied Piper I have to tell you that I am not all that clever at high finance, which in one way is a good thing because I don’t generally get caught up in the scheme (scam) of the moment preferring to keep an eye on basic principles. That in essence is what the banks worldwide didn’t do. All they saw was a tasty fly coming in their direction, take it or it will be gone. It is now they are discovering the hidden barb underneath. All they could see was the deal which led them to buy crap from trusted friends. Now their confidence is disturbed and their trust is gone, which is why they stopped dealing with each other and why Paulson had to knock their heads together recently. But don’t forget the reason Ponzzi was so successful was because in the early and even middle stages of the scheme, he threw money at peoples’ heads like they couldn’t believe, just before the sting.

How do you get mineral and resource rights that you don’t own out of some tin pot country? You flatter the leader’s ego. You tell him that history will remember him as the man who built an international airport and a major auto route to the capital, the man who put his country on the map. Sell the dream; sell the dream: sell the dream and then the IMF throws easy money at his head and we all know how the rest of the story works out. Nobody stops to ask if what they are buying into is actually worth it.

There is an old adage about finding the bad guys by following the money but this is only true up to a point. Like a Saturn V rocket there comes a point where it goes out of view but that doesn’t mean it has disappeared altogether. In the last years we have heard that this stratospheric money has been used to finance both sides in wars. European money financed both the Keizer and the Crown at the same time with the winner paying the losers tab. We don’t hear about it, it is not discussed. What games are being played out with the stratospheric money today and who knows?

With regard to your question over checks and balances, the situations in the US and elsewhere are different. In your country, from 1913 onwards, the robbers were put in charge of guarding the vault. In most of Europe, I don’t know for all, the treasury and the national bank are separate entities which closely relate to each other but separate none the less. Let us take an example of what happened to Fortis Bank in Belgium a couple of weeks ago. They could not raise short term paper to roll over their Credit Default Swops. In essence they were bust. The government stepped in and nationalised them and then promptly sold a 75% stake to a French bank. Whilst the crisis is still playing out the Government is overseeing and curtailing any mischievous or reckless activity that otherwise might occur.

I also think that what you have heard is more than likely correct. If it is major and financial, others might have a finger in the pie but the Bank of England is the plate the pie is sitting on.

On an only slightly related note, October 1st came and went without any major US catastrophe, so what happened to the money the US owed the Bank of International Settlements for financing its wars. It didn’t come out of the $0.75T so did the Far East pay it off?

Anonymous said...

From Belgium,

Freeacre wrote “If Berneke and Paulson had any class they'd be sticking themselves in the gut with a sword right about now.”
Probably the reason they haven’t is that after they have completed that part of the process they then need a friend to chop off their head.

RAS said...

Belgium wrote: "Probably the reason they haven’t is that after they have completed that part of the process they then need a friend to chop off their head."
LMAO, that was good!

The treasury printed up half a trillion dollars a couple of weeks ago and gave it to the Federal Reserve...who then gave it to the banks. This did not come from the bailout. So, the total tab is now $1.2 trillion and climbing, plus a couple of trillion in Europe.

The Archdruid has a really good post up right now about the differences between the abstract and real economies and how this has changed through time.

Anonymous said...

According to Aaron Russo's classic film, America: Freedom to Fascism, no list of member banks has ever been disclosed by the "Federal" Reserve.

Mike Ruppert, in the movie, says, "The federal reserve is no more federal than Federal Express."

Doesn't it stand to reason that the nine big banks Paulson called to order Monday ARE the fed? They're the survivors. I wouldn't expect the federal reserve to allow it's own members to collapse.

If this is true, then didn't the government just "buy into" the Fed?

I thought the central banks could be expected to guard their autonomy with tooth and claw. So, what's going on?

Another point. What about all the friggin' interest the American taxpayer has meekly surrendered to the federal reserve, in the form of interest on the money it "manages" since its inception in 1913?

Seems to me there should be plenty of cash already stolen and stashed by these thieves to cover the 850 billion dollar bailout, without asking Joe the Plumber for ANY more.

What do you suppose will happen when the public finally awakens to the fact that these fucking bankers have been robbing us blind for decades, while only pretending to
fulfill a useful and necessary function?

I believe the Third Brigade, 1st Infantry, was brought back from Baghdad to secure points inside the Beltway, mostly.

-rockpicker

Anonymous said...

Oh, btw, Belgium;

The French bank that bought 75% of Fortis from the Belgian government. Was it, by any chance, a Rothschild holding?

-rp

Anonymous said...

The darkness surrounding the waning hunters moon is soft and flexible, coming from nothing, returning to nothing. why is there nothing i ask, langosta looks at me as if i were an innocent child. no-thing is where it all happens she replies,..............in an earlier smoke filled bus i imagined that somewhere in the morning of creation there exists an energy that will bring to the two-leggeds the knowledge of which p speaks, the wisdom to look into the mirror of reflected darkness and witness the very beauty that drives eternity, and all that is and will be.
bug says to be sure and brush you teeth and while your staring at them in the mirror be sure to look behind your eyes and and see what the origin of the eyes sees. as the eyes gaze at one another the distance between them becomes ....gone.
the oct 14 spaceship Alabama landed on my back porch last night, bug thought that they were a mite shorter then she remember from their last meeting, we talked with them a good long while, i asked how could they land a 2000 mile long spaceship on the little deck in my back yard, they said they did not know,and that the ones that did know this kind of stuff were out in the grass making them selfs acquainted with the local six and eight legged residents. langosta's relatives, kind of.

the news of the day shrivel into the ashes of the self, and the renunciation begins i thought, this day this one will love the very act of the now and shed not a tear for the lost denial that began with such hope of acquired arrogance and a chance at the trough of life, the feeders are having a wonderful time disgorging their truths for all to behold,.....impervious to the destruction of themselves. boy will these mother fuckers get a jolt, cause , nothing exists outside, that ain't inside she says , ( she plays with me cause she never uses those kinds of words, to primitive she says ) o i says,how do you know i says, she says sometimes you get to look with all your I'S and thats when it happens she says, what happens i ask, well she says, thats worth not much if i tell you , but find it on your own and you live in a mansion of excellent dimensions she says, o i says/ thanks a lot, not understanding a fucking thing. piss!!!!

i think that some of the greatness in all of us is that we have the ability to transform that which has outlived its usefulness , to discard that which just ain't no fun anymore, but that brings a sword, not a picnic table of earthly (that does come later she says ) delights, just ask p. i think this man has seen more mother fucking devils in his life then anyone has a right to witness. and by right i mean that the
unbelievable strength and courage it takes to just maintain some sense of stability in a world that has turned to complete shit,...... anyway i think also the the brothers and sisters that attend this sacred meeting place have all in one way or another experienced the pain of not belonging and this in its own energy has given the compass point to find each other here and places like here, for i am sure that the spirit of love is embracing those that have known the darkness and somehow are finding their way home.
personally i remain unafraid of the total collapse of a system that at its core is the one winner and the agenda is to procreate death and destruction and leave a trail of broken tears, i will say hello to my own inner core, a core made of completeness and perfection, untouched by the illusion that there is scarcity in a universe that is made of the same star stuff that are we,...

we came awake and found ourselfs in a junkyard of used ideas and blood stained hands that rocked our collective cradles and found it wanting, ,,,this little spark, has turned into a roaring council fire and will not be extinguished by the mediocre minds that foul this earth mother, raise up i say, kick the doors of bullshit square in the teeth and walk upright as the legitimate sons and daughters of a paradise that is OURS,!!!! not the nasty rotten puke sacks that think they hold the keys to our world.
one finger is weak, five fingers make a hand
brothers and sisters we are one~~!!!!!!!
we will persevere, make no mistake about that!!
aho with love
mf&bug

Anonymous said...

Rockpicker are we on to visit the aquarium in oregon?
uzxzcjx

Dave said...

I think you’re absolutely correct: the powers-that-be know exactly what they’re doing, which is pushing us all into debt-servitude. They destroy our standard of living, drive down prices of real assets, use the government to hoard cash, and then swoop in and buy up all the distressed assets on the cheap. Meanwhile, we’re reduced to serfs.

Recently I had an epiphany: are all these corporate executives, who seem to have incompetently run their companies into the ground, doing so solely out of selfish interest? Or have they perhaps been bribed or cajoled into behaving so recklessly by a higher power, the elites who run the world? After all, this financial destruction and apparent “mismanagement” is playing right into their hands.

If I could foresee these eventualities, I think the elites could too. Even if blinded by greed, they have countless expert minions working for them who could anticipate the future.

One final thought: all this bailout activity, even if it restores solvency to the businesses, is irrelevant because “consumers” are tapped out. What good is it if all the businesses are “healthy” and their customers don’t show up for the party?

Dave
http://daveeriqat.wordpress.com/

Anonymous said...

An excerpt;


Tuesday, October 14. 2008
Posted by Karl Denninger at 07:06
America Has Died - To Thunderous Applause

"America's House and Senate, just a couple of short weeks ago, passed a law that was denounced by The American People, where representatives and senators were receiving calls 50:50 against - 50% "No" and 50% "Hell No".

In response, Wall Street banks employed spam-call-banks to "counter" this outpouring of public opinion and CEOs of Fortune 500 companies broke the law by sending out emails and other communications that essentially threatened their employees with loss of their job if they did not lobby for this horrible bill to be passed.

The bill passed after Henry Paulson and Ben Bernanke threatened Congress with the imposition of Martial Law. Yeah. Tanks in the streets stuff. Literally.

This was disclosed in the well of the house by a few brave representatives, including Representative Sherman.

Were you told this was how Congress was browbeaten into passing this law? Were you told that Congress was essentially threatened that tanks would be deployed into our cities and towns if Congress did not pass this bad law that Paulson and Bernanke demanded?

Well, yes you were. Representative Sherman disclosed this fact in an impassioned speech in the Well of the House.

Did CNBC or CNN report that? No, but CSPAN did carry it.

If you watched.

But the law was in fact to allow the buying of $700 billion of "troubled mortgages" and related assets.

Or was it?

See, buried in that bill was a nasty little catch-all "any other asset the Treasury says promotes financial stability."

One little sentence, with which you surrendered forever the principles of economic capitalism and replaced them with government totalitarianism.

Fascism..."

http://market-ticker.denninger.net/archives/608-
America-Has-Died-To-Thunderous-Applause.html

-rp

Anonymous said...

From Belgium,

I don’t know at this stage rp, The French bank is called BNP Paribas and registered in Paris. Fortis became overextended when they bought out a large chunk of Dutch rival ABN Amro last year but whilst trying to build up their reserves again got caught in a short term paper liquidity problem.

A run through “Findownersearch.com” lists the banks registered address and all the banks product classifications and owners of these products. In other words it goes down and not up. Another article in Dutch says one of the biggest stake holders is the insurance giant AXA with 5.93% and describes BNP Paribas as “One of the most solid banks in Europe” You can make what you will from that.

Also, I don’t want to steal Freeacre’s thunder but she sent me this link. I don’t understand all the tricky finance involved but I do understand all of his vehement invective, this is one pissed off guy who really understands what is going on.

http://www.theinternationalforecaster.com/International_Forecaster_Weekly/Liquidity_Injection_Wont_Cure_Wall_Street_Disease

RAS said...

This has nothing to do with the current topic, but I felt the need to tell someone.

I've decided to change my name. (Whether legally or not I haven't decided.) Why? Because I don't like it, I've never liked it and I would rather have a name that actually suits me. I haven't decided what I'm going to change it to yet, but that will come.
aho

murph said...

Hey ras,

Boy are you in for some hassles if you do.

freeacre said...

Well, ras,it is a hassle to change one's name, but you are young and I think it can be a good thing to change it to something you feel comfortable with. The hassles mostly deal with being able to keep track of your past in terms of a resume and credit and social security, etc. It just takes time to get everyone on the same page. Legally, I think you can call yourself anything you want as long as you keep your social security number and notify them. Women who marry and take their husband's name do it all the time.

Anonymous said...

I gave my parents crap all the time for giving me a wussy name and I thought about changing it, but the name "Clint Eastwood" was already taken and used up pretty good -dangit!

Dude

Anonymous said...

From Belgium,

Nearly everybody goes through a phase of not liking their name. Once when I changed school I got the other kids to start using my middle name but my parents soon put a stop to that. Kinda left me wondering why they had given it to me in the first place. I guess there is no harm in keeping your existing name officially and just being known as something else.

A little snippet that hardly made the news and nearly didn’t; the Icelandic banks that caught the American Flu have been baled out by Putin. He is one smart guy, (he who controls the money etc); even if it is only to extend the hand of friendship and poke the West in the eye at the same time. But the little but strategically placed Icelanders will remember who their friends are and who their friends aren’t.

freeacre said...

Putin is probably looking ahead at developing a good neighbor policy, especially since he just planted his flag at the North Pole and the struggle to grab the Arctic oil begins in earnest. Maybe put storage facilities or refineries there - or a military base. Would make sense.

If he extends a helping hand this winter to Iceland and Europe with things like heating oil and money, he would most probably gain a lot of good will in the world. Whereas, the U.S. is already becoming despised due to the stock and derivative fiasco (and war). If something seriously disrupts our election, we are really going to look like dog shit in comparison.

Anonymous said...

I like what Michael Moore proposed - United Natinos Election Monitors for this November.

Jacques de Beaufort said...

I wan't to change my name to "Joe the Plumber"

Anonymous said...

If its been awhile since you've seen Terminator 3 i would suggest giving it a whirl, lots of pertinent stuff maybe, anyway its really radio active and a hoot to bat.

ras.this is for you too;http://www.native-americans-online.com/native-american-names.html
love ya little sister
mf

freeacre said...

"Joe the Plumber," HA! That'd be a switch!

Terminator 3 - yeah! I love the whole series. I watch it while I make cookies. "Live Free and Die Hard" is another one...and, "The Postman." Love 'em all.

Anonymous said...

From Belgium,

Freeacre,

Under the South Pole there is a huge continental Land mass but under the North Pole there is only water. That’s why nobody ever planted a flag before. Apart from that, as the ice comes and goes the flag tends to move about a bit. But if he wants to lay claim to an ice sheet, good on him I say. It will give the UN something useful to do.

Are you aware that every country from Turkey to Algeria gets at least 40% of its oil from Uncle Vladdy? Now seriously look at this missile defence shield and ask who is going to press the button if Europe looses 40% of its oil just as quickly as it takes to close the valve. It might stick in the throats of some Europeans but with the dollar tanking, sooner or later it is going to be choose your friends time.

freeacre said...

Yeah, Belgium, the flag was planted underwater by a Russian submarine as I recall reading awhile back.

What a different world it would be if we could use all of our talents, resources, and smarts to actually help and support each other rather than to compete and dominate and exploit, eh?

Why couldn't we decide to not play this destructive game anymore, and to concentrate on creating a better world? I know that sounds hopelessly naive, but what else is left? I want to stay as centered as possible and to reach out and be helpful and not buy into making different groups or countries "the other." They like it when we fight amongst ourselves.
The next 3 or 4 years may be just what we are here for. Everything we have learned and done in life so far culminates in right now and what we do from here. So, when all these challenges happen, we can always stand up and yell, "I WAS BORN FOR THIS!!"

Anonymous said...

....for your reading pleasure.

this probably has made it onto this board at one time but I thought it interesting enough to put it on again. I know I find new gems of interest every time a come across it...

http://madconomist.com/what-if-us-collapses-soviet-collapse-lessons-every-american-needs-to-know

Ely

freeacre said...

Well, gee whiz, I just voted. Oregon has this neat mail-in system where they send you a voters guide to all the candidates and referendums which comes in two volumes and is like reading a dictionary. But, anyway, the deed is done.

I voted for Pacific Green Party, Constitutional Party, one Republican local who works with our citizen's group, one Democrat, and at the last minute, Barack Obama.

What?? Obama? Signer of the BAILOUT?? How could I? Well, for me, it came down to a reason that was not political or financial or ideological. I remembered when I was a kid and John Kennedy was running for President. I told my mom I'd vote for him if I could. My mom (usually a sane person) looked at me with a face filled with fear. "oh, no. If he wins the election, the Pope will be running the country," she said.
He won, and my mom fell in love with him, and I've never heard anyone say that again.
A few days ago, I saw a quote from a McCain supporter who said, "If Obama wins, the Blacks will run the country." It reminded me of my mom and the fear-filled bullshit that needs to be put to rest.
Also, I am thinking of our fellow Americans who are young people of color. I don't know of any candidate who will do the things that I want them to do, like end the Federal Reserve, dismantle the military empire, restore the constitution, and disengage the government from the corporations. But, one thing I do know that will happen if Obama wins the White House, is that it will expand the horizons of a bunch of little black and brown kids, and help them to stop limiting themselves by what they perceive as implacable limits. And, it will unburden young white kids from having to be taught to be afraid of a level playing field. It's kind of a retro issue, but at least it's a real one. I guess I just had to go with my heart, not my head this time.

Jacques de Beaufort said...

One of the ugly consequences of resource depletion will be a resurgence in hatred and racism.

As our civilization declines I am convinced that many of the gains we have made towards creating an egalitarian and progressive society will vanish in an instant. In a world of scarcity there will certainly be more violence, class warfare, gender inequality, racial tension, limits on civil liberties, and limits on privacy.

Our freedoms were enabled and sponsored by the free energy we got from oil.

The Green Party, the Democratic Party don;t have a chance in hell for long term survival. The Republican's will become more and more radical, extreme, and powerful as they stoke the fires of hatred and bigotry. It would be very easy for them to provoke a disaster that resulted in the implementation of martial law, effectively nullifying our constitution and ushering a Dark Age of Fascist extremism and Fundamentalism. The only other option would be an equally unappealing centralized Soviet style marxist state in which freedoms and rights were similarly limited. The future looks bleak for progressive notions of civil polity.

In the long term things may improve as centralized control proves untenable. It's possible that regional republics will emerge after the fall of the United States that may be less fascist than the interim government. A resistance movement will be key for localized liberation.

That's my prediction today anyways.

Anonymous said...

Freeacre;

Bless you.


Jacques;

We effect what we observe, simply by observing it.

Because we all have free will, we can effect what success the dark side celebrates over us by refusing to feed it our energy. We can, instead, ignore the dark, and concentrate on the light.

Laugh, rejoice, sing and dance and refuse admittance to the dark. As Freeacre suggests, empower those who have for so long labored in the utter absence of fairness.

The dark side is losing its grip.

Dance and sing. Beat your drum.
Pass the pipe, and the talking stick.

Undercut hatred with love. Believe
in yourself. Trust the impulse to resist the negative.

Each of us has chosen to be here now, because these are the exciting times, and much is expected of us.

Remaining positive is serious work.

Laugh and sing. Beat your drum.
Walk straight among the broken souls and shine for them your light.

aho.

-rp

Jacques de Beaufort said...

words of wisdom

...a ray of light in dark times

this is a hard road we walk

Anonymous said...

From Belgium,

Freeacre,

Who was that guy who was derided a while back for saying “Why can’t we all just get on”? Obama huh, you could have written Ron Paul’s name in but that have been making a stand and a throw away vote at the same time. I have always thought that Green politics is an issue not a party. For instance, what is the correct Green stance on defence? I hope you are right about Obama though, he is the better of the two main candidates, in my view. The only problem I have with him is his position on Pakistan, it looks like he is just going to swop one war for another and destabilising this (nuclear) region is a Brzezinski plan. That disturbs me.

I woke up this morning with a strange thought; if Davy Crocket would have lost then George Bush would have been Mexican. I guess that’s one that can be put in the bin of unforeseen consequences.

freeacre said...

lol... Davy Crockett was killed at the Alamo by Santa Anna (or something like that), Belgium. Unfortunately, Bush just became a moron anyway. Now, if we had just taken the side of the French instead of the English during the French and Indian wars, we'd have had wonderful food and a country full of great kissers..

I don't agree with Obama on Pakistan and have all sorts of reservations about him politically. But, I figure we are gonna be toast politically no matter what when the dollar tanks. I have two very smart and adorable grandchildren whose father is a Jamaican Rastafarian living in California. My vote was for them, and kids like them.

We all gotta do what is right for us. I share your fears, Jacques. But, I also share rp's stance of allowing for the possibility that the difficulties also have the potential to bring out the best of us, as well as the worst. We are always at choice. I have gone out and beat my drum lately, and it felt really good. As I said, we were born for this. Believe in yourself.
aho

RAS said...

I too will vote for Obama, not because I buy into the hype (I don't) or because I think he is all that different from McCain (I don't) or that he will really change things (ha!) but for a couple of other reasons, one of which is much like fa's. First, I think he is the lesser of the two evils. McInsane and Caribou Barbie scare me. I think McCain might nuke Iran the first time their president calls him a night. Second, I'm tired of seeing old, rich white men in charge of this country and if nothing else, Obama will certainly improve our image a bit. Third, I want to poke my finger in the eye of all the racist SOBs around here who are saying things about him I can't repeat. And because I want to help show that someone who is not white can do the job.

Jacques, the shape of the civilization that will follow us will be determined by us -we will determine how violent and oppressive it is. I love rp's words.

I remember a class discussion some time ago. This was in a social science class, can't remember which one. But we were talking about this skeletion that had been found. It was of a woman who had lived thousands and thousands of years ago, back when life was far more brutal than it is today. Her back and legs were deformed to the point that she couldn't walk. But get this: the woman was at least 40 when she died, and she was buried very lovingly. The question my classmates could not figure out the answer to was this: how had this crippled woman survived to adulthood and middle age in such a world? Quite clearly, her family/clan helped her. It kind of gives paid to the lie of our currently 'advanced' status, doesn't it?

Anonymous said...

very well put fa,you too rockpicker, and everyone else too. your statements are becoming reality to many of us and that energy is being translated into all kind of magical appearing things.
Such as the hopelessness to the human condition. at least in a few (and thats all it will take apparently) its there for us to step out of the mindsets that we were blessed with, the major one at least to me is the idea of scarcity, this idea is really really stupid when the very thing that created us created the rest of the whole fucking universe!!
at least i see no other source then that at this point.

also rockpicker is right about,

'We effect what we observe, simply by observing it'

this statement i first read from a dialog between Jiddu Krisnamurti and physicist David Bohm about 20 years ago, give or take a few years, and has stuck with me to this day and has been the crux of all endeavor in understanding first myself and upon learning that the self is a mirror reflection in regard to the erroneous idea that there is some kind of distance between the outside and the inside, (they are one).
to me this is the basis for any chance at all for humanity to get its collective shit together,and after studying David which his work left me laying in the dust because my brain works on a more linear mode it is capable of moving into the circle of which Krishnamurti speaks after about 10 years or so of considering this mans thoughts. i discovered his works by accident in a small book store in Reno Nevada in 1979 and was about to end it all as the search for truth had come to an end, dead end as it were. however life was restored and to this day owe my very physical and mental life to this incredible man. i actually got the chance to hear him speak twice, once in San Francisco and once in Ojai California.
The few times i have offered to bring his work into conversations has been met with such resistance that after only about a dozen or so times in the last thirty years it is only now that i bring it up here among you that attend this sacred place.
if you are interested in either of these two people you might google them, because i will not bring it up again, ever.
personally i think that its time for this information to be released,but maybe not. i have thought so before but have been proven wrong enough to leave it alone and pursue this work alone, well almost alone, i do have my trusted ally.

David i think has already been read by SATS,Murph and Rockpicker and probably a few more that attend these listening's, Jiddu,probably not anyone, but maybe.
anyway hopefully there are among you brothers and sisters a few that are aware of these thoughts and are struggling alone because of the blocks that appear whenever they are mentioned, know that you are not alone,even though alone is not the scary thing presented by our upbringing but a chance to step out of the nightmare called society if approached with a good heart.

these are serious times but like fa says, ''stand up and yell, i was born for this'' and let us know that it is up to us and us alone to change the world starting with us because what we do no matter how insignificant it seems according to both of these great brothers effects the rest of the world, and if observed close enough it can be seen firsthand.
i love you all

aho
mf

murph said...

Montana,

a short quote from Krishnamurti,
"Freedom is found in the choiceless awareness of our daily existence".

That statement alone has far reaching implications and raises again the question of freedom of choice, or freedom at all.

The very little bit of Krishnamurti I have read indicates that he feels that freedom in it's broadest sense is in reality non existent. If you accept this premise, than the rest follows. The question is whether it is a true reflection of the human condition or not. Got to admit that I have difficult accepting that premise.

Anonymous said...

maybe you better vote twice fa...

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/23638322/block_the_vote

...p

Jacques de Beaufort said...

This is my story.
Where spreads apace slowly
Through the lingering deceits of evil days
A memory, a fragment of chainless winds.
A widening gulf from which now I am thrown ashore.
Ere I seek evanishment of these turgid and benthic depths
And yearn for more limpid sophic waters than those of my
Bothered and restive youth.
The strength of my fiery young flesh was
Slowly drained by the venal blandishments of impetuous expectation.
Crashing hence in shards of glittering ruin I awoke
To ten thousand miles of winding churn and clammering
Brutish fire.
Burned from the last rays of ancient sunlight
The carnage vast and outspread, the charnel roof
The forge of Hephaestus threw billows of poison
Into the vital air.

Laid in the black rush, drest as a bridesmaid
A spirit with palsied tongue and dark charred heart.
My soul
Alone
Perched on the endless horizon of a smog-torn sunset.

This is the face of mortal understanding.
The epiphany that begs.
An angel that in her seraphic kindness could
Come to wrest from your lips a chalice of blood
And with hand outspread, invoke a parade of sylvan sprites
For us to worship even as they heal our brooding discomfort.

This is our story.
It is not of mortal bonds or the
Quickening treachery of a bestial floor
That mesmerizes a sordid lot.
There is an unremitting sorrow in our ineluctable senescence,
But I know that in the moment, in the aƫreal eyes that kindle day,
Shall be found a taper burning.
And I will place upon your head a bejeweled and oblate diadem
Not to deliver, to sire, or to own.
But to celebrate our time beneath these Ionian skies.

It is not I that has taken from thee.
Nor will it be I who delivers.
Yet in this circle of fire we might yet find solace.
In the smoking black ruins beneath the shadow of this Beast
In the denuded landscape there I see a faint scintilla glimmering from Beneath the blackened dross.
This I call love.

Jacques de Beaufort said...

and some scary shit for your consideration

murph said...

Jacques,

Scary indeed. You know that they just got through running a similar exercise in Portland. Has the appearance of a take over doesn't it.

Anonymous said...

From Belgium,

That’s Cy’s city, wonder if we will get an update?

It is worth while to taka a tour through some of the related You Tube related videos.

freeacre said...

Greg Palast and Robert Kennedy, Jr. are doing a great service to this country analyzing the deceit and treasonous assault on our voting rights and civil liberties. One can sense the leprous hands of Karl Rove all over this one. The election process has me pretty unhinged. Are they attempting to steal the election (again) or are they wanting to provoke the electorate into rebellion, thereby triggering even more repression? If this thing goes off without a hitch, I'll be amazed. I think it's going to be a dog fight. One hopes the Supreme Court has not been too compromised.
Another thing that is giving me a young case of the hives is little things like the package of finishing nails that I bought in the grocery store the other day. I'm looking a the label and I noticed that it reads: "Small Nails -Clavos pequenos - Petits clous"
What's this? English, Spanish & French?? More foreshadowing of the North American Union. America, Canada and Mexico. I get it. Was this package made in Canada? No, Taiwan. Like the chem trails, all one has to do is open your eyes and you can see it all around you. But most people aren't looking because they are afraid of what they'll see. When the next shock and awe event happens they'll be transfixed like deer in the headlights. A month without money, and the dumbasserie will be begging for a new currency or a credit card in three languages. Hopefully, we who have been coming to terms with this info for a long time will be able to keep our heads and refuse the straight jacket of fear for which we have already been measured.

Anonymous said...

From Belgium,

So let’s get this right, we are making comers’ in welcome, even to the point of explaining that small nails are small nails but we are not being welcoming enough to let those of them who are enfranchised actually voting.

Over here some pre-packaged articles are described and often instructions for use are printed in ten or twelve languages (even right to left languages) and English is not one of them. What is going on?

Anonymous said...

From Belgium,

p.

Congratulations Tom Dewey
You won by a landslide today
Through thick and through thin
We knew you would win
‘Cos who’d ever vote
Harry Truman back in

Congratulations Tom Dewey
Your Republican dreams have come true
So let’s hear a victory roar
For President Number 34
The White House is waiting for you –oo –oo.

And that was the other way round And before Diebold and Karl the architect. Not that I’m saying there isn’t an element of Dickchenery involved mind you………..

RAS said...

Ever since I was a little girl, whenever I get scared and things look really dark, I repeat Invictus like a mantra:
Out of the night that covers me/ Black as the pit from pole to pole/
I think whatever gods may be/
For my unconquerable soul

No matter how bad things get, no matter what happens or what they do, they can't touch our souls or the core of us. The light of freedom, of love, of reason, of hope, can never be extinguished. It can be dimmed, it can be covered, but it always comes back stronger than before. This is what the human spirit is made of: this flame, this spark that can not be put out. No star dies forever. And no matter how dark the night, dawn always comes.

Anonymous said...

freeacre and murph,

Congrats on your 1 year anniversary! I would just like to toss out an answer to one of the questions that murph proposed, though I'm not sure it was in the form of a question. The leverage that Paulson used to get the worlds largest banks to go along with taking the money in this "bailout" was that if they didn't, the large banks that really did need the money would be readily identifiable and there would be a run on those banks. It would then create a clould over the banks that still were solid, and there likely would be a run on them all. There were at least two, perhaps as many as four that were in big trouble and it's "best" to keep them anonymous. Could you imagine what might happen if word got out that Chase was bankrupt, or broke? So,the rest laid on the grenade for them, and of course, also for themselves even if it were for down the road a short ways. Nice last few pieces, by the way. Don't remember my password, so posting as anon!

Cyclone

murph said...

Oh my God,

Howdy Cyclone. Long time since we have heard from you. Thought something had happened to you. Send email.

Yup, I agree, if all of the banks that were in trouble,(meaning not having enough reserves and were technically bankrupt)were known, then there would be an immediate run on them. Not so sure the foreign investors were fooled though. Notes come due sometime. From what I read, this bailout is doomed to fail for a variety of reasons. The longer this is held off, the worse it will be. It appears that the looting will have to end sometime.

Good to hear from you.

Anonymous said...

Cy; A hardy welcome back to the clan from Oldensoul and me.

Anybody notice that another earthquake, this time in the south pacific archipelego of Tonga, with a magnitude of 6.8, was measured at a depth of 10 kilometers? So what?

According to USGS data, there have been over 40 quakes this year, all recorded at a depth of 10 kilometers, or 6.21 miles. Kinda odd, don'tya think?

-rockpicker

Anonymous said...

Great to see to see a comment again from Cyclone!! Was wondering if you ever followed along this blog site.

Hey all here is a good explanation on CDO's for the average person....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eb_R1-PqRrw

Ely

Anonymous said...

Hey rockpicker,

You're in NC, right? Was brousing welcometopottersville2and suprised to read that NC might be going blue, as in Obama-Blue. Even with the Jessie Helms mob still in place. Any truth to it?

I used to live in Charlotte, NC, -then Wilmington then Spartanburg, SC prior to moving west. No offense, but I couldn't stand Charlotte -nor the other places in NC. SC is much better, but I hear they're trying to turn SC jnto a "Christain" state, which means that if I was still there, I'd probably be in jail or run out of town for being a commie-pinko, liberal, atheist scumbag.

Later-

Dude