Thursday, February 25, 2010



By Murph

It appears that more citizens in a relatively short time frame are finding their breaking points. Joe Stack is the most recent in the news. It leads me to wonder how many more have reached a breaking point and done something extreme, but it didn’t make the news.

We also seem to be anticipating some big event to come at us with much speculation as to what that event might be. Personally, I want that ‘big event’ to get here so we can figure out what our next direction should be. At least a bit more transparency in events would be a relief from the lies and denial I see surrounding our lives.

I’d like to talk about this a bit and would be interested in other peoples’ take on it.

In my life, I have observed that “breaking points” are very individualistic. Whether a person commits some very “anti social” act out of frustration, fear, or just plain old ego trip is not predictable. It appears from what I have read that Joseph Stack had been putting up with what he considered a real imposition with the IRS for a very long time. His breaking point was not easily reached. Interestingly, we just watched a movie, “Law Abiding Citizen,” that portrayed a man snapping as the result of a horrid miscarriage of justice. “Falling Down,” with Michael Douglas is another one. Life imitating art or art imitating life? It seems the movies often reflect the memes people are living with or carrying around in their heads.

Go to a watering hole for the commoners and you will see breaking points that are almost instantaneous and over what many of us might consider trivial, aided by alcohol of course.

I suppose the civilized restriction on taking action on a breaking point has some value, hopefully suppressing the trivial. Those that never seem to reach the point of fighting back, even under extreme duress, are labeled wimps etc. Thus leading to things like the high school bully who can’t seem to stop the abuse or agitation until the wimp does take action. Remember Columbine? This is usually accompanied by a lot of “collateral damage.” “Going postal” is a phrase we use to describe when a person has had enough and vents his rage and goes down in a hail of bullets.

Also notice how the popular news media treats such cases, consensus being that they had to have severe personality disorders to go to such extremes, in other words, they were crazy, in need of help. The are “loners,” “disgruntled employees,” “fanatics,” “cultists,” or the ever more popular, “terrorists.” Not citizens. Never citizens. In conjunction, notice how when the PTB engage in violent acts that it is always justified, but if citizens do, its vilified.

I also wonder how many instances involve the breaking points of the elites. Shakespeare and the Greek Tragedy examined some of these. Since the winners write their own histories, they are called “Freedom Fighters,” “Founding Fathers,” and “patriots,” or “heroes.” Gods, even.

I suspect that we have little control over the personal breaking point that is one aspect of each individual personality. I do think that we have control over what action we take. The question is - is it justified to deliberately take it out on someone who is innocent of your misery?

This brings up another question in my mind. What do you do when your breaking point has been reached and you have zero access to the ones responsible? If your breaking point is when your house is repossessed, and you have no access to the CEO of the mortgage company or the bank, who do you confront or take action against? Those under the decision making elite of the company are just minions doing their jobs. Does “just doing your job” release you from responsibility? The Nuremburg trials said, “ no it doesn’t.” In the instance of Stack, are the people that died in his extreme action to be held responsible for their working for an odious government bureaucracy? How about insurance companies? Banks? Stock brokers?

At this blog and permeating web writing is the concept of the “sheeple”, the wimps who will do anything to keep their status quo and not question or challenge those in power. I suspect that for most of these people, they just haven’t had their breaking point exceeded. I wonder what they will do when that point is reached. I further suspect that this year we are going to have an answer to that, and I think that is what the elites are afraid of - what will the herd actually do? Personally, I think they might be counting on it, just to show us the superior firepower they have.

While I am on this subject of the mass population not having reached their breaking point, take a look at Matt Taibbi’s new article in Rolling Stone, March 4 issue. His article outlines how we have been scammed out of another bunch of billions of dollars by the banks, Goldman Sachs being the leader. When is the population’s tolerance for this going to reach the limit? If/when that point is reached, what will be the actions and consequences?

For myself, I don’t yet feel like my line in the sand has been breached. Of course, I am living under peculiar circumstances in relation to most people in this country. I’m not paying taxes to the federal government, don’t have a mortgage, don’t owe a bunch of money, and am living in a very supportive relatively small community in the Northwest and trying our best to live sustainably. That represents-what?- about 10% of the people in this country? Maybe even less.

It seems like this is being deliberately orchestrated, pushing folks to the breaking point. I suppose when that point is reached where a sizable amount of the people go on the rampage, then the elites will turn lose their dogs, the jackbooted thugs disguised as FEMA teams, national guard, police and FBI terrorist searchers. For that is what they will be labeled, “terrorists”. Of course, it is possible that the inevitable declaring of martial law and the militarization of society may just back fire big time. The stage has been set and all that’s needed is the spark, the final indignity against people who have nothing left to lose, and a forced takeover of everything that is not controlled now. And, like our revolutionary war, only a minority of people will scream “I’ve had enough and I ain’t gonna take it anymore” and mean it. In a plutocracy, the state has to marginalize, delegitimize and suppress forceful dissent for its own benefit to perpetuate its policies of raping and looting.

Outcomes of any large direct action are always up for grabs. There are never any clear winners but rather negotiated compromises and settlements. Remember the French revolution? One more ascension of the power hungry and control freaks pictured with his hand in his vest. I ponder how this will play out this time around for I most surely think we shall see some really big changes coming, if not government incompetence, then some huge world wide calamity that will make Haiti appear inconsequential. I have to chuckle at what I will not see, what the tribal story tellers have to say about it all, or what a historian far in the future will say about this period of history. If I were to live long enough to be a historian or story teller, my version would be very different from what I hear in stories today.

Speaking on ‘breaking points’ on the macro level, take a read of this analysis; He has a rather immense contempt for those that are deliberately voiding our constitution and lays out how revolutions and suppression are dealt with. You might want to check out Joe Bageant’s latest piece as well.

Sunday morning and listened to some of the blather on TV news and commentaries. Between the “Obama is going to drive our country into a socialist nightmare” and the “Obama is doing what needs to be done and a fine job of it” talking heads, I feel vaguely sick at my stomach. Is it remnants of the flue or an emotional rejection of what I am hearing? Then there is the “think positive” crowd with their ever annoying mantra that they use to rationalize everything. It all serves the man.

One of the big personal questions for each of us is going to be: when the SHTF and masses of people reach a flash point and rebel, what are we personally going to do? Avoid the conflicts as best we can, participate, deny the consequences, lend support to what side, or what? For me, I have reached the age where active rebellion would be futile, I ain’t got the mojo anymore. That’s why we have chosen a path of resistance to the greater commodity culture, and prefer acts of generosity. What about you?

Of course, as Freeacre cautions, if your answer is “right here and right now, Mother****er!” it would be prudent for you and for us not to blab it on the blogsite. No need to attract the drones to the campfire…


Montana said...

Andrew Joseph Stack was nothing but a coward, to his family, to god, to our country. Boo, hoo, hoo, I have money problems and its not my fault, it the big bad government. This domestic (white trailer trash) terrorist who first burned his house and crashed his plane into a building during business hours and killed Vernon Hunter a 27 year Federal employee and 20 year veteran of the US Army with two tours in the Vietnam War.

murph said...

I'm confused. What has your comment got to do with different people having different tolerances for endurance before they take action, stupid action or not.

Considering what he had been doing most of his life it would seem inappropriate to label him "white trailer trash", I also notice that you jumped in with the "terrorist" label. Come on man. What's your bag?

nina said...

It would be interesting to see what the tolerance levels are for the UK. Or Japan. This could be a study who's time has come. This study would be especialy revealing even if only westerners were polled, but the only change that would result would be increased opacity.

Americans have an extremely high tolerance for pain. Most of them don't even realize what they are suffering from or how it ever got that way. And they have access to all sorts of pain relief, specifically legal drugs and alcohol, or indulging in addictive, destructive behaviors of which there are nearly as many as there are depressed and confused people. Those particular people have a breaking point every single day except its seen as personal and their associates are either in the same situation or inured to the overload of everday pain, inured to the point of ignorance and acceptance of the way things are.

The words used to deliver information to the populace are words designed to patronize and costume the seriousness of the situation, always. This results in people not fully understanding what is really being explained to them. This means that when someone actually, finally, reaches an external breaking point entirely on their own, it is never perceived for what it is as in Joe Stack's breaking point and how Montana can feel disgusted at the poor man's "cowardice".
What do we really know?

These things were called nervous breakdowns as recently as the 20th century. In the judgemental language of the zeitgeist, the accusatory term "terrorist" more easily distinguishes the observer from the perpetrator.

BTW, this Stack story brings up many questions, he may very well have been someone who saw through the unstoppable, leviathan mil/ind complex and refused to participate any longer as every participation brought on more profound pain. When someone is busy carrying out his own demise, he is far past the point of worrying about anyone else, especially if he was under the influence. He may have been a Manchurian candidate or none of it may have happened as in a 911 hologram. Is a web manifesto a found intact passport? Were his remains recovered? It is a suspicious event. At the least it presents many financial opportunities for mandating security enhancements at municipal airports and small planes, stiffening licensing and training requirements none of which is small change.

One thing is guaranteed and that is the little people will never know the truth. If you don't know the truth, its kind of difficult to reach a real breaking point without constantly being in the dark, which is when most concerned people communicate with others to get a reality check. Stack did not do that. That does not fit with the person he was portrayed previous to this event. Instead, he reads like a man suddenly possessed.

baz recon said...

An autopsy had been carried out on the body and the death was not being treated as suspicious. Both deaths have been referred to the coroner...

Hah!—how quickly the perpetrator becomes the victim, by his own perpetration. Not once, but twice now, maybe more—people thought I wuz talkin 'but them even though I hadn't named ANYONE! Now, if your name is Fool, by all means take offense—better yet, stop being one!

Truth can't be censored—eventually it'll find a way. Classified documents due for de-classification (typically 50 yrs or more depending on gravity), are commonly already known by industry insiders, and ordinary intelligent thinking honest—seekers of the truth—unafraid of where the truth leads them.

So generally speaking then, I wuz speaking generally. You might ascertain then I wuz a General-speaking 'but general-knowledge commonly uncommonly known. Just a generalization—that's how we roll—homies.

Hell the 1st-time I wuz accused, I'd barely glanced at his dissertation, and it wuz just something I'd been thinking 'but anyway. Coincidence? Synchronous—probably. Wondered what all the bad name-callin' wuz al a'but to me! Let it go at the time, intrigued at the level of guilt involved—Jesus, repent or somethin'—but I ain't a fucken priest. Hell—if you're goin' to take it personally and I ain't even mentioned yuh f, ah lovely names, then it's your OWN GUILT—NOT MINE.

I have enough of me own 2 deal with.

alright already 3 hail mary's, YOU ARE PARDONED—go and sin no more

Never really felt people could handle the truth—especially their own. The hard-core addict will bend over backwards for that regular lick of Acapulco Go$d

wv: mentiv — verify !

rockpicker said...

Yes, was going to say, there's a dandy little film I think everyone should be interested in here:

And, since I have the talking stick, let me just say that this paper below is also a must read to fill in another little piece of the puzzle.

And now, we return you to our regularly scheduled programming...

nina said...

PS: Welcome back Murph ... and the photo for this post is amazing.

rockpicker said...

It's beginning to look like the French revolution all over again, except this time, the aristocracy has barricaded itself behind its private armies and is content to allow the angry masses to devour themselves.

Think of it as rich man's football.

--wv= everge, as in, i am on the everge

Hotspringswizard said...

Hmmm Baz, I can't quite get who your talking about, perhaps a few more hints will do the trick :-) And your still holdin true to your " anti gold " campaign too I see :-) I can assure you that I don't sit in the dark at my home, with one of my gold coins in my hand saying, " my precious! " :-) Gold is just another way of exchanging one thing for another. You ever used any form of money Baz? It serves the same purpose as gold, they are just made out of differant substances.

Boy Murph, thats one wicked looking Wall Cloud. I think its clear to all of us that this year is shaping up to be one where we will be seeing the Breaking Point for many, with all the dire economic signs piling up daily.

Well I'm off to visit an old fellow " conspiracy theorist " freind that I have not seen in quite a while. With all thats going on, I know we will have lots to talk about :-)

rockpicker said...

Murph, Nice shot of Katrina.

Hot Srings, be sure and watch that Aaron Franz film. It's way relevant to this blog.

Hotspringswizard said...

Rockpicker, When we were down at the chemtrail protest last weekend in San Diego, Sofia who runs that 911WeKnow website was there. My brother has known her for some time and he bought a whole bunch of her DVD's to hand out. I bought quite a few myself for the same purpose.

I sent Freeacre a some photos from the protest and one of them shows sofia ( I pointed that out to her in the e-mail ). While we were talking to her she told my brother she has a possibility of someone that may be interested in putting some big money into a DVD project that she is interested in doing. I think the subject of the DVD would be on Chemtrails.

Anyway she was asking my brother if he could talk to this person to help get them more interested in this prospect. Alex Jones is currently working on a DVD which will deal with the issue of Chemtrails. A while back he met with Rosalind Petersen who is a main Chemtrail activist who lives up near Ukiah, Northern Cal. Alex was also going to meet and interview my brother regarding this project, but my brother ended up declining the meet up with Alex since he was feeling like he just wanted to focus on his local sustainability issues and back off the Chemtrail stuff.

In recent months though my brother Dane is back doing the activist stuff again regarding Chemtrails, and on various levels he is trying to spread the word about the many problems associated with them. He just did a bit on local Redding public tv on this subject last week. He has worked with Rosalind Petersen alot also in regards to this issue.

The friend I met with today named Dale is very much involved with spreading the word of Chemtrails in our area. We spent about 3 hours talking on this subject today. Incidently the morning sky down here this morning was inudated with crisscrossing trails.

I'd check out that film you mentioned but with my phone modem turtle speed connection it would take forever to download. I don't know if you have yet checked out my brothers friend Mauro's fairly new Chemtrail website. The address for it is:

The day before the protest last weekend he got 12,000 hits, just on that day alone. I guess Mariah Carey's brother is into this subject and my brother was supposed to meet up with him last weekend on Sunday but he ( my brother ) got the word to late and was already headed back up the road to Redding. Mauro also got in contact with David Icke who spread the word about the website.

Yikes, Transbiology! Now I know why I've been feeling kinda strange lately. The more you learn about whats going on, the weirder it gets! No wonder I'm having dreams about stuff like giant orcs with huge cavernous mouths pouring me the sacred Kraken Water :-)

rockpicker said...


8.8 off the coast of Chile early Saturday morning, and a large number of significant aftershakes so far. We have a daughter on Kawaii. She called at 6:15 a.m. her time to say the tsunami warnings had gone off. Everyone's heading for higher ground. First wave is expected around 11:19 a.m.

freeacre said...

Best wishes for your daughter, Rockpicker. Glad that she is forewarned. This appears to be #1 in the Half Past Human predictions for 8 Great Quakes this year. And, it seems to me that it lends credence to the theory of an electronic universe, as the quake (as well as the smaller one in Japan) happened just when the magnetic waves were to arrive at the earth from that huge magnetic filament bursting on the sun three days ago. Poor Chili. I've always thought it looks like a beautiful place to live.
I think I will add as a link from our home page. I think it's great.

nina said...

FA, wouldn't you day Haiti is number one, Chile number two? Six more to go? Aghhhhhhhhhhh

rockpicker said...

Nina, I believe I heard Clif tell Jeff Rense that Haiti didn't count. 8 or above is what he was talking about.

FA, you might have hit on something there. I forgot all about the incoming electromagnetic energy, and didn't even look for aurora last night. Watched a video release of info from Clifford Carnicom and Dr. Gwen Scott concerning Morgellons. Looks like elements of the press are slowly coming around on this issue. Carnicom states that everyone he knows who has tested for the condition has shown some degree of infection. And every blood sample, including two canine samples, has shown a positive result. People should be demanding info on this, as it appears that billions may have already been exposed.

wv= rouse, 'get out'

David said...

Mr. Stack was an new American patriot in the new American Revolution.When I read his letter and it finally got to the part where he had had enough,my eyes welled up at the bravery of such a man.The breaking point is being reached enmass and as a country we probably won't survive the chaos.Which isn't necessarily a bad thing......Reports from the Oregon coast in Yachats

Anonymous said...

breaking point. timely topic murph. maule chile hit the breaking point. followed by nearly 50 @ 5.0 +. momma's movin! the big tsunami scare turned out to be just big enough to wash the trash from the beaches. otta sight, otta mind. but for how long?

as for pigs and people, i wrote this a couple years ago... ...p

rockpicker said...

Kids went to the store, stocked up on beer and booze, then headed for the bluff to watch the big waves come in. Gotta call late afternoon, show was over, they were heading home. We were on pins and needles for about all day long, though, so it's time for a beer.

David, no matter how one 'feels' about what Joe Stack is supposed to have done, or said, I have to wonder, is someone trying to solicit a specific response? It looks as though Stack was more than a little connected to L3 Corp., which has pretty extensive ties to the mil/ind complex. My guess is, there's more to the story.

As far as the IRS is concerned, they're all a bunch of thugs collecting protection payments for an illegitimate crime family, (the Fed.)

David said...

Thugs and criminals is all we are left with when it comes to our leadership,and if they aren't thugs or criminals then they are their paidforelected politicians.If there is a conspiracy theory behind Mr. Stack then I say Finally.When is enough enough? Why does the 2nd American Revolution to take back our country and rewrite its history have to take so long?I do think that when martial law is used against citizens enmass then people will start to fight back

freeacre said...

Good to hear from you again, David.
I just had a paranoid thought... what happens if the health care plan goes through and people who work have to pay for mandatory health care insurance? What happens if they want to quit their job? Still insured? Do they still have to pay? Or, if the care is covered while they are not working, will they be billed for it later (with interest) when they start working again? Or, when they sell their house? Would the debt to the insurance companies be like owing the IRS? It sounds to me as if it at least has the potential to make all working people indentured servants (or slaves). Has anybody got any information on the consequences of quitting one's job if the insurance payments become mandatory?
There is a HUGE difference between a "single payer" plan where it's run like Medicare or like the Veteran's Administration as opposed to having BIG INSURANCE and BIG PHARMA running the show. What about alternative medicine? If the corporates are in charge, the coverage probably wouldn't extend to herbal remedies and such... just wonderin
I suspect a pimp job once again.

Anonymous said...

Humm, got a message from freeacre that someone commented and use the first part of my name, montana freeman, well i don't mind, i don't own the fucking set of words, and i'm pretty sure that the people that have been coming to this site for the last couple of years will recognize that what this commentator said is out of whack with the way i view the world.
man i can identify with the poor bastard to the bone what with being in such close proximity to the resident evil, i mean misguided cocksucker that is setting up his own little hitler wannabe in our tiny hamlet here in montana,
on the one hand i view joe as a martyr and only fantasize about having the courage to do what he did, on the other hand when a person invests so much of their lives in denial and continually chases the nightmare that we are constantly immersed in by the propaganda boys(and girls) the end is assured one way or another, right?

i mean what is it that keeps us so out of touch with what it is that we are actually doing with our lives?
we chase the multitude of illusions that are handed out as if they actually had any meaning other then to enslave out minds and bodies to the ptb and go quietly to this or that grave, either the one that was the mind or the one that is six feet deep. not much difference i guess.

folks, this one has not held the talking stick for some time now and the reason is is that i feel like i just don't really have shit to say that has any worthwhile meaning, i have written dozens of comments and they end up on in the delete basket,
the present group of commenters of which are relatively new or at least new to comment seem very together folks and say the things that need to be said in a very intelligent way that brings clarity to the fire, soooo for this one there is no need to reinvent the wheel so to speak,

i can say hi and treasure the fact that this place is a place of peace and understanding among brothers and sisters and a little pool of quite reflection on the items that seem to govern out collective lives.
all of you are a precious resource set apart from the nasty business of contemporary societies road to perdition.
if no one minds i will say a few observations now and then just to let folks know that this one is here in mind and spirit to the bitter end, or beginning which is probably the case before us,
also to thank each and everyone that has been drawn to this holy sacred place, for it is sacred of which i have said many times over, it is love that holds and shares these many hands that rest here you know, at least that thats what langosta says,
which brings up a little something, she has been missing for a long while and only recently returned to this one in dreams of night and sometimes the dream-state of day and i might add a few of those offerings later if they seem relevant to anything.
in sighing off, as far as joe the ''navigator''goes,
well it must of been one hell of a ride, and the person using Montana, well, our tribe says never judge another man until you have walked a mile in his moccasins, .

David said...

Thanks freeacre,The thought of paranoia that is coming through is well placed,because you can pretty much be assured that any legislation that is passed is not in our "the people's" interest.Otherwise it would not even be an issue.Issues are used to create the illusion of service to the people,but in reality they make us more of a slave to debt and taxes by mandate.I have been a self employed floorcovering installer for over 25 years and the amount that I make now far surpasses what I made when I started.But I have become ever more broke raising a family of 6.Healthcare is not affordable for our family and the debate about it is not in our interest.For some reason the debate is centered around mandates instead of rights of the people.It as if I choose not to have health care for my family,No, I choose to keep a roof over their head and food on their table.Even the irs has been beconning at my door,when we can barely make ends meet as it is.There is never any money left at the end of the month and its getting worse,Gross reciets are down 30% over last year and new construction constitutes less than 5% of my business.Thanks to the union busters of the 80's my trade has been delegated to the area of private contractors in the name of free enterprise and short term profit.As a man that only wants to work and do what I am good at, the cards are stacked against me.When I talk about private contracting and retail stores selling floorcovering materials they all say we only hire(use) license and bonded contractors(of which I am),They are saying (we want the people to do the work but we don't want the liability of the work or worker.My trade has been sold down the road.And I am glad to still be working in this recession and the people that I get sent out to to install in their house are glad to have me and are pleased that they didn't get a hack just because of a license and bond.

murph said...


Wow man, thanks for your short story on your situation. I am coming across more and more people with similar stories. Got the feeling that it is going to get much worse.

Glad to hear from you

murph said...


Good to have your voice once more at the campfire. I can sympathize with your not having just a whole lot more to say. I feel like that on a frequent basis.

Zoner said...

I just want to echo my brother Montana Freeman's words about being here frequently in observation mode and always in spirit, but having little to say that doesn't make me feel like I'm gazing at my navel and blathering.

I deeply appreciate the newer arrivals, and offer my thanks to Murph and Freeacre for starting this fire and tending it with such care.

The time for words for me has passed for now, but my respect and love for All, and my gratitude to you here endures.


wv; inemi. Indeed, the enemy is within, not "out there". The battle continues.

freeacre said...

It's nice for us to hear from older tribal brethren, at least occasionally. Just for us to know that you are still hanging in there, still OK, and that we are not rejected or abandoned by you. This site is a collective effort and everyone is significant. I don't want to lay a guilt trip, but I feel maternal towards everyone who has graced this site. We are grateful to you as well.
David, I'm sure that we can all identify with the struggle that you and all of us working class people have experienced over the last twenty years of deteriorating circumstances created by the overlords. As Nina pointed out, "Americans have an extremely high tolerance for pain." That is a profound observation. Whether it's been due to union busting, outsourcing of jobs, ever more limiting rules and regulations, caps on pay, inflation, or the million and one crippling details that have made our lives more and more difficult, the pain has become excruciating. We are a strong people, but our strength is more and more judged by how much we can endure rather that how much we can accomplish. This is a soul killing reality that I can only handle in the context of looking at what other people in the past have experienced with natural catastrophes or collapse of empires. It truly sucks. The only thing I can think of that will help is individual acts of kindness as we attempt to help pick up the pieces of the shattered lives around us.
If you get a chance, take a look at the DVD, "Symbols of an Alien Sky" from It portrays examples of culture after culture who have undergone great calamities that are cyclical in nature and we once again are in the midst of. It ain't easy, and their is no reason to pretend that it is.

wv: pershon. Just a pershon, trying to get by.

rockpicker said...

Heads-up, Belgium, on the continuing saga unfolding, or should I say, exposing, the British paedophile ring.

These names can't get any bigger!

Hotspringswizard said...

I first came across the Trout Clan Campfire when Carolyn Baker did the interview with Murph and Freeacre about their personel circumstances dealing with the growing collapse issues.

From the start I got the feeling that there was a special quality here in this space of communication. Since that time, my initial feelings have been confirmed. It is certainly a worthwhile and comforting thing to be able to consider and take part in these varied discussions we have about these dramatically changing times we are experiencing.

Interesting to hear the thoughts just recently expressed by some about not feeling they had much to say, but still were appreciating the Trout Clan for what it offered them. Murph layed down some great thoughts there in his recent entry. He inquired as to what others felt about what he discussed.

Some will comment directly to his subject, and others will bring up differant points. Some will be content just to consider what is said. This weekend the feeling in my mind was that I did not have anything particular to add to what Murph had brought up. At times for me all of this ongoing crap and corruption just tends to overwhelm the mind. Sometimes, we individually just need a break from all of it for a spell.

But for myself, it has always been the case that time moves on, my spirit gets lifted by this or that reason, then someone shares some thoughts and I find something that I'm interested in sharing regarding my feelings too.

As I've said before I respect Murph and Freeacre greatly. If I do not respond to particular things they bring up in thier entries or comments, it surely is not that I don't appreciate what they have expressed ( which also applies to the other comments for that matter ). Like many of you, its just that sometimes I can think of nothing that I feel is compelling enough to add to the mix in those instances.

Like MF expressed, sometimes I too don't feel that just echoing someones elses thoughts on an issue, recomfirming the same intent from my point of view, is necesarily adding anything that differant. Not to say that doing such is somehow wrong. Like I appreciate the various similiar thoughts about differant vistitors to this sites feelings of why they value what goes on here.

Something related to the basic topic of Muph's most recent entry is that as individuals we are faced with all these things in the world going so very wrong, with all the pervasive corruption and greed, vast ongoing ill deeds of parts of humanity against the other, and we, if we are responsible, are in the position of trying to decide just what we should or can do about what we are facing. Now people are on so many differant levels in being impacted negatively by all of the dire trendlines, the machinations of the PTB, and even the collective negative impacts of our own behavior.

I see this " Breaking Point " of Murphs entry subject as something that represents a person or differant sized groups reaching points at which they finally are moved to make some sort of drastic changes in their lives, coming to a point where life courses are dramatically altered. So the Breaking Point to me is not just about the people who snap and precipitate all manner of immoral acts, done with unreasonable violence. These points of dramatic turning and transition can also be very much about person's and people coming to the realization that they must alter their paths and take actions to try and rememdy great wrongs occuring to them, and to those around them.....


Hotspringswizard said...

There are many people of this world who value the upholding of decent moral behavior, as seen in their words, and most importantly in how they live out their lives and in how they treat those they live amongst. But it is also an inherent feature of the human condition that there are many who do not care about behaving ethically ( beyond the facade of it they portray ) and who could care less about the impact their actions have on the other beings of this planet the live with.

I often wonder how so many people come to have so little caring and compassion for those around them. What process of their developing mind brought them to this way of thinking, and acting. But it is a reality and a very pervasive one, and now things have evolved to a state where these kinds of people can wield much greater consequence with their actions because of all the implements and machinations at their disposal.

Also these folks who opperate in so many un-ethical and violent ways seem to gravitate towards, and occupy high postions of power, because of the lure of great wealth and power with its ability to control others just seems to attract these types. People of more integrity who enter the larger power structure just seem to get taken out or affectively marganalized, one way or another. The overall tendency is that the more generally corrupt will thrive in these positions where moral behavior seems to be an impediment for success.

As much as I wish ( or even express it at times ) that we need to take actions in mass to try and alter the course of our train that is headed for the cliffs, really, as I have also expressed here, I don't think we can alter the course of where we are all headed, for the most part. All this complexity ( and the consequent troubles that come along with it ) that the human species has wrought, is an example of how a particular atribute ( our brains and how they operate ) of a particular organism can select it in the end for a fate of eventual extinction. This attribute that enabled us to rise to " so called " dominance, looks also like it will be the culprit for our inevitable demise as a species. There are just too many un-intended consequences that eminate from the interactions of the ongoing, generation by generation, crop of living human beings, and all the dire impacts that the manifestations in the real world of the workings of their diverse minds do in truth also bring.

Just what will our futures hold because of the multitudes of Breaking Points that will surely ensue as the world situation contines to degrade for humanity is something that will have to unfold, and we can only do our best to understand what directions it may take, and maybe, that discerning can help us in some ways to cope better with the transition. The good people of this world are the ones who give me inspiration. People who not only speak of, but who's lives show by their actions that things like honesty, integrity, compassion, responsibility, and all the reasonable standards of ethical conduct are deemed of the highest importance as guides and standards by which to live our lives by. These people exist in all nations, in people's of all colors and creeds, and it is with them that I am aligned, not with any political system, nation state, particular religion, etc.

In the end all of this trying to make things better may very well get overwhelmed by everything else that is errant about the course of humanity, but for myself, as long as I am able, I will always try to accomplish what I can to bring something more postive to this world, and this is what makes me look forward to what may come of each new day. There are still so many ways you can affect the world, and those around you, by being an exampe of goodness in its many forms, even amidst all the turmoil of our time.

オテモヤン said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
murph said...


This link was sent to me by a friend. It has a bit of a different perspective on looking at the short term future. Worth the read

baz recon said...

~ Mali saying

“In the desert everything is hidden—you have to find what is there.”

If it's a choice between sleeping in a house or under the stars, the true nomad will always choose the stars.

hint #1

Hotspringswizard said...

An excerpt from Kunstlers entry today:

.....In The Long Emergency we have entered, real governance is likely to devolve downward to the community level, and it may be unrealistic to expect any real action from on high. Things have just gone too far at this point....

Anonymous said...

it is going to get much worse.

i'm in the trades too. up until the crash which for us started dec, 06, 95% of our rev came from new-home const. thats off 95+%!! ...p

Anonymous said...

i got a 404 on that link murph.. p

Anonymous said...

i got a 404 on that link murph.. p

rockpicker said...

The Death of the Ball Turret Gunner

From my mother's sleep I fell into the State,
And I hunched in its belly till my wet fur froze.
Six miles from earth, loosed from its dream of life,
I woke to black flak and the nightmare fighters.
When I died they washed me out of the turret with a hose.

by Randall Jarrell

Hotspringswizard said...

P, whats a 404? I checked out that link Murph. There's alot of great info in that article that I would agree with, and also some things I see differantly.

The article assumes that Climate Change ( as caused predominately by mans activities ) and Peak Oil are made up. The great deal of information I've gone through tells me they are real.

I think the elites are seeing global warming, and like everything else, they work to develop various ways they can make vast amounts of money from any set of conditions they find.

If Peak Oil and Global warming are truly happening, everything that this author discusses would still make sense as the possible ways the elites will proceded to rig these realities to their advantage.

In the prognosis segment at the end, the authors many assumptions rely on events evolving in pretty much exactly the way he describes. In the real world there are the possibilities of multiple tangent ways all the factors could come together, producing outcomes much differant than this author anticipates.

Like his implications that the family unit of human interaction being dissolved. I personally think that is highly unlikely and if they tried something like that on a mass scale there would be a mass uprising like you wouldn't believe. A parents connection to their offspring is across all cultures a thing that is generally valued very highly, and the elites will rue the day they would try to break that bond.

There have been many empires through history, systems of elites subjugating the masses that have come and gone. The elites always have to have vast amounts of higher level people to run their power structures and these very people are the ones who turn on them and thwart their ultimate plans time after time.

Like they will try and use the military for much the author desribes, but he assumes that all these various levels of military personel well go along with seeing their own kin in many cases be put upon by the whims of the elites in their pursuit of control. At some point there will be a backlash against these things, even within the military ranks.

So I think this article shined a light on many important aspects that are occuring, and projections that may to one extent or another come to be, but like most predictions about the long range future, events so often go in completely unexpected directions.

英文發音真難 said...


rockpicker said...


That is one of the best written synopses of our present predicament I have ever read. I haven't seen it put more honestly, or concisely, anywhere. Thank you.

I read as much of it as I could to Oldensoul last night, and just finished up with it this morning.

His explanation of how capitalism is now beyond its sell-by date is a critical point for us to grasp, I think, because it's obvious that the age of growth is over, and it must also have been anticipated by the ptb, so it is important to pay attention and observe socio/political changes taking place, to get an inkling of what the ptb have in mind for us. I believe this author 'stuck it' in this piece, and deserves the gold.

As far as the climate change controversy over anthropogenic causes, the protestors in the streets calling for carbon taxing on the masses have not convinced me their science is reliable.

Take a looky here:

rockpicker said...

Yeah, and I think I'd like to know a little bit more about H.A.A.R.P.'s true capabilities before I go out marching for increased government oppression.

murph said...


Yeh, that article I found very interesting for it's perspective. It sure answers (from the authors perspective) the question whether this is a planned collapse or just plain bad governance.

rockpicker said...

Based on what we've observed recently, who can contest the author's assertions, besides a bankster, of course.

Those who would wield power represent so tiny a segment of the planet's population! It's astounding!

Surely we the people feel the good sun returning to our faces, sense the sweet juice of emancipation rising in our untapped limbs.

Will we shuffle on in our financial leg irons, begrudging but obedient, to an inferior elite, who by circumstance of birth and ill-gotten wealth, claim
an illegitimate dominion over the majority of the earth?

What power do these chosen few command, that we vast oppressed submit our gifted days and heaven-blessed experience in servitude to this genteel rabble?

For what tug of the nose ring, what crack of whip should I rise?

Contrived collapse offers a chance to reconstitute and reassess. Those who control would as well possess.

RAS said...

I'm nursing a horrid cold, so my apologies if this doesn't make any sense.

People are reaching their breaking points all over. Most are taking it out on themselves or their families or a few on random strangers. Even most of the gene pool dropouts who comprise the tea party know that taking action against this government is a good way to earn oneself a Darwin award.

The best thing to do is what we've been discussing on this blog for ages: drop out of the game, stop paying as many taxes as possible, provide for your own needs, help your neighbor, etc. The question is, how can people be persuaded to see and do this?

I'm still working on the post I promised. I should have it to you by this weekend.

mrs p said...

Murph - We wonder about these things too. Interesting issues you bring up because while Rome burns we just watch. We are sheep. Hey but we'd like to know about that awesome stormy cloud photo! Where was it taken? Stunning photo! Looks like a Spielberg film.

Yes storms are a brewing...Our evil ways has turned the tides against us. As for "the herd" I personally feel Americans have already given up all their rights and will never collectively act on anything because they're not organized nor are they self-governing. And so many of them are brainwashed by lies and hatred of things that don't exist. Plus we always hand everything over to someone else who really doesn't represent us. And we continue to vote for the same broken wheels over and over.

I do believe everyone has a personal breaking point but not collectively. When it comes to those I love being hurt or harmed I could easily turn into a mother bear! As for getting the changes I've been thinking of, (since I was old enough to vote)--a few decades, I see nothing has changed but the weather. If we had a democracy and knew how to use it, we could get rid of the decay. But not until enough "citizens" are educated on the truth and the lies will they be able to bring radical changes to the way "the hill" and Wall Street works. And when a true leader comes forward who seems to represent a broad majority of radical change...something evil and crazy takes them out. There are most definitely many Americans who feel there is no justice at this point in time. Especially the ones who are loosing their jobs and their homes. We got screwed for 8 years while half the country was being sold a pile of hooey about security. We were blind sided as a nation. The lamestream media help to accomplish this and they continue to play along because the suits at the top are controlling the general consensus, the American psyche. mrs p

mrs p said...

I have to agree with some of what Nina brings forth. Americans (most of them) are high on prescription drugs. So being mezmerized by their drug pushing TV's isn't enough to keep them docile--they've got all those pain killers,muscle relaxers and alcohol, which I consider medicine anyway. So the issues you bring up Murph are excellent because they raise many more questions. Our society is very tollerant as a collective and we tend to "look the other way" and not get involved. We also have a bad habit of "forgetting" the past or just not seeing it in the first place. mrs p

mrs p said...

FA: I saw last night on MSNBC, (Rachel Maddow Show) that 37 congress members have signed the Public Option Letter. Supposedly all they need are a few more signatures, 15 or so to get it passed. mrs p

stoney13 said...


Murph's confused, and I am too! Now I know what you're doing Montana! That I see all too well.

What you are doing is going down the blog roll putting this cut and pasted comment on every site that looks lie it might have discussed Andrew Stack, on the mistaken belief that you are doing Mr. Vernon Jones and his family a favor. You really aren't, and I'll tell you why.

First off, not everybody who lives in a mobile home is trash. In fact just about everybody I know has had a mobile home, and a plot of land as their first real estate purchase, myself included. Are we all trash to you? If so, then I'm afraid you have some issues to address! With that statement, you've already turned most of your audience against you, which is a piss-poor way to attract a gathering!

Second off, when you call someone "White Trailer Trash", and do so in a posting with as many grammatical errors as yours, you're not helping your cause in any way!

Now, the way I see it is, You are either one of two things:

You are a genuinely grieving member of Mr. Hunter's family who has lost someone dear to them, and is in the throes of rage over that loss. To you, I say: I'm truly sorry for your loss. I've been through it myself, and I can tell you that you will grow past it. the pain will go away. Let the grief do it's cleansing, and hold Vernon in a close place in your heart, and enjoy the memories he left you.

Or, you are a government entity off some sort, be it political, or some law enforcement campaign. You have programed in the names/issues, and are now putting this message on the sites chosen.

I tend to think more towards the latter, since the first sentence in you comment has commas, and the second has none, even though it is a far more complex sentence than the first, and surely needs some! It looks like you had to finish this up quickly, and had no time for punctuation. If this is true, then to I say: This man that you say is a 27 year Federal Employee, deserves to be settled in his grave before you drag him out, hoist him on a pole, and start screaming "LOOK! HE'S DEAD! GIVE UP YOUR GUNS, AND CIVIL RIGHTS OR MORE WILL DIE!" Because this is always part one, in the never ending endeavors of the "Nanny Sate" types, and their allies in Law Enforcement, who want our guns, knives, marijuana, and whatever pointy sticks that happens to be in the immediate area.

These statements always tend to marginalize the perpetrator, and elevate the victim in two sentences. I see that here.

That being said, HOW FUCKING DARE YOU!!!! Let this man's family have the chance and the privacy to mourn his death before you turn him into some martyr to your cause! His death was the direct result of what happens when you push someone too far! QUIT PUSHING!!!!

Andrew Stack was wrong! What he did was misguided! But when you ride a man long enough, he will buck your ass off!

murph said...


Good take on the comment from Montana. I agree.

freeacre said...

I just broke my own rule against ordering things on a credit card that I can't pay off all at once. But, I took a look at the latest pictures of the disaster in Chile, and decided to invest in a good ceramic water filter from the Daulton USA company that can process 50 gallons of water a day, just in case a big earthquake happens soon. A 50 gallon per day one will enable us to share water with neighbors, so I figure it's worth it. Even if we can't get water from the well, we could use melted snow, or river water and still be good.
Stoney, I think you are right ... seems I've seen his comment in other places...
Can identify with your thoughts, too, mrs.p. I'm still trying to recover from a meeting I attended last night. It was supposed to be a "Town Hall" meeting with our local state representative and our state Senator. Turned out to be a Republican love fest. The vast majority of folks were totally taken in by the Republican bullshit and expressed much dissatisfaction with "progressives" and "environmentalists," whom they blame for everything. I spoke up and said that I blame both of the parties and will not be voting for either one of them again. Told them that unless they get serious about outsourcing, they are never going to be bringing any jobs back, and we should stop subsidizing and giving incentives to big corporations that then put the jobs in China or reduce the wages of local workers to the level of slave labor in Asia.
The Senator told me that the issue "is complicated" and that if we didn't have stuff made in China and India, we wouldn't be able to afford all the stuff we buy. yada yada yada.
I think I'll go look for some painkillers, muscle relaxants, and anti-depressants, now... gaaaah!\
Looking forward to your post, ras, thanks! And, I hope you get well soon.

rockpicker said...

Repugs, ZioDems, screw 'em all! I'm joining the Landless Peasants Party!

Hotspringswizard said...

Here are some excerpts from a recent Joe Bageant article:


......In all likelihood, you the reader are younger than I. Possibly less cynical and surely less tired. You may believe yet that violent overthrow of such a monstrous system is still possible.

A year or so ago, I still believed that. Events in the world and at home have since convinced me otherwise. Maybe the system could have even been changed from within forty years ago. If it could have been and was not, then that most certainly is the greatest failure of my generation. The Sixties were a critical point at which important choices were offered us as a people. At the time, a minority realized revolution was still possible and warranted. Violent revolution, if necessary. But as a generation, we were no better at acting in unselfish concert than yours.

As Chris Hedges recently pointed out, violence today only assures the survival of the most violent, criminals of one sort or another, petty or international. Beyond that, the state now has the technological capability to inflict the most violence in every case, and therefore win. Realistic thinkers say aloud that what is so far advanced can no longer be stopped or turned around by revolution, violent or otherwise. Most other thinkers on the subject secretly suspect the same......

...... Obama is himself a commodity, the most telegenic political commodity since Kennedy. One that suits American style capitalism best this particular historical political moment. He is a useful illusion, the same as George W. Bush was a useful illusion. What is the difference between George Bush managing the country through media performances and Obama doing the same? Both are telegenic, which is everything today, but in different ways. One was stupid but radiated virility and manly appearance; the other is attractive for his intelligence and so smart he's stupid. Both lives are absorbed in "appearing to be" in the Great American Hologram of appearances. We are a nation following the appearance of national leadership.......

.......The "crisis" was set in motion by institutions lending each other non-existent money none of them can pay back.Consequently, the masses are once again expected to produce enough material value in the world to make the funny money real, and shore up the system one more time. To "raise the money" to do this will require generations of future productivity shoveled into the furnace of corporate capitalism's banking machinery. There was nothing left to steal, so extorting the future was the only option left......


Hotspringswizard said...

.......The owning/business class has always been institutionalized as the state and the custodians of the entire American social and political process. History as we learn it in school is the owning class' version. Despite what we were taught, America's Constitution is mainly a property rights document, and those with the most property are naturally ascendant at all times in this country. Generation after generation of this ascent was bound to lead to what we see now. The ultimate triumph of property and money. A Supreme Court that, without the slightest hesitation, declares that money is speech and as such, will do most of the talking from here on out. The autonomous economy now has a tongue.

We can well imagine its future admonishments, its smug edicts, proclamations of terror afoot, more need for surveillance camera eyes, oil pipelines for its circulatory system. The autonomous economy not only has the bullhorn of the national media. It has a voice capable of drowning out what little of the people's voice remained, replacing our small national dialogue with soulless monologue. The bourgeoisie will listen closely though, for opportunity, a buck to be made in Kevlar, or perhaps the next new antidepressant for a demoralized, passive and discouraged republic.

In all honesty, I am sick of thinking about it, tired of burning up unrecoverable hours at the end of my 63-year old candle writing about it. So are many of my colleagues in cybernetic left-space.

Distance and solitude seem the only refuge. Which is why I am "aging Mexican," and almost monastically absorbed in the small daily rituals of sustenance these days. I do not kid myself that it is permanent or a real solution to the unbearable ugliness of the American condition.

But at the moment, four AM, a cricket chirps in the orange tree by my window, and my tortillas are perfectly lovely.......

and regarding this part above, " The bourgeoisie will listen closely though, for opportunity, a buck to be made in Kevlar ", the way I see it, this present the idea that the elites are always looking for new schemes to bleed the working class in one way or another, and the idea of Carbon Credits and other similiar mechanisms is just another example of this.

I think our world is warming much more dramatically because of all the burning of hydrocarbon fuels since our major use of them began little more than 150 years ago, and the PTB are seeing these scams as a way to make a buck off of this, and another means to pillage more wealth from the masses at the same time, and also it serves their purposes of wanting to have the vast majority of people's besides themselves in the lowly postion of being economic serfs, pawns who can then be more easily made to do their bidding. This serves the same purpose for the issue of the growing energy crisses itself.

Hotspringswizard said...

I was looking again at the dramatic wall cloud photo ( a type that tornadoes are commonly spawned from )and I see a face profile. I mentioned before that since I started years ago making little heads out of natural clay that since then I started seeing faces and face profiles alot in this or that around me.

If your look from the bottom of the right hand side of this cloud you will see a profile with the mouth at the bottom, a big pointy nose sticking out with the sloping forhead which ends into the whole mushroom top of this cloud which constitues some wild afro like hair doo. The eye is a darker patch set back a little ways up and left of the nose into the cloud itself.

I see all sorts of faces in things, so many varieties and it always happens when I'm not thinking about anything in particular, and definitely not trying to see these faces. I enjoy it and find it fascinating. Our brains are such infinitely complex constructs, and its easy to understand given this how all of the intracacies of the human condition comes to be through its workings.

Hotspringswizard said...

Oh yeah, and the rest of that Bageat article is excellent!

freeacre said...

Well, I keep consoling myself with the thought that we serfs outnumber the elites by a whole bunch. And we all have "shoes" that we can throw into the cogs. Reduced to the status of "consumers" rather than citizens, we at least still have the option to stop buying their shit, stop using their credit cards, refuse to pay interest, don't contribute to the stock market or the 401', walk away from the upside down mortgage, and at least attempt to set up localized food and production of necessities. Starve the beast. Be a Bad Serf.
Oh, and mrs. p, that picture is of Katrina. Can't remember where we got it. Might have been Nat'l Geographic...

rockpicker said...


" a bouquet of elbows..."

Can I have that?

Hotspringswizard said...

And this new article by Carolyn Baker is spot on too IMHO:


And in it this regarding things we can do to help ourselves cope with collapse: can also read poetry, make art and music; you can not only talk about your feelings about collapse with other people, but talk about your values and priorities-what is important to you, what is your individual purpose in life, what is your shared purpose together? And of course you can keep doing what you're already probably doing if you're reading this article-getting deeply involved in your community to help it become resilient and self-sufficient.

Above all, you need to spend a significant chunk of time every day-I suggest a half hour twice a day-in contemplation. If you have a meditation practice, wonderful. If not, develop one. It should be a time of stillness and restoration. It should be a time of listening to the inner wisdom of the soul/psyche-a time when thoughts and feelings are not censored but simply allowed and witnessed-and perhaps later, journaled about. While it is true that no one can navigate collapse alone, it is also true that while navigating it, the relationship with oneself may be the most crucial of all.......

And regarding this written above, " a time when thoughts and feelings are not censored but simply allowed and witnessed ", this is what I do when on my solo hikes in various scenic natural settings. Its my time to just let my thoughts wander freely where they may, on all manner of subject.
Its precious time and I value it greatly :-)

I have for a long time considered this collapse course of humanity to be like a giant snowball, rolling in a direction of its own making and as such, its errant path because of all of its complex characteristic was beyond alteration from its dire course.

Its like if you were on the Titanic, and you had the insight to truly know it was going to sink after hitting the iceberg, then this will cause you to seek a course of action other than trying to save the ship itself ( or in the above analogy, stop the snowball ).

While the vast majority of the people on this sinking ship are engaged in their various forms of ingorance of the true reality ( of its sinking ), or in their denial of whats happening, you see that your only true and reasonable course for survival is to somehow create a " lifeboat " of one sort or another.


Hotspringswizard said...

So back to our reality, the ship of humanity and its soceital constructs are foundering badly and in many of our opinions it will go down ( to what ultimate state we will continue to conjecture ). It is not in my mind to just give up because the greater ship ( our complex societal constructs ) itself cannot be saved.

I think there's no sense to fighting a battle and expending efforts on things we cannot changed. Learning to live and appreciate lives of material simplicity will be central to adapting to what is to come. And in my experience, moving down this path, towards this way of being, my life has actually become richer in the true qualities that bring a lasting contentedness to my life.

My focus in pouring through all the information on these issues is to build up a framework of understanding of the true nature of the worldwide situation, and of how it may be developing on into the future. I would hope that the internet and the incredible tool for learning that it represents will always be available as it is now, but that wish is questionable given the course of things.

Other minds, and their myriad points of view provide important perspectives in which to frame and understand all of this vast information. We learn things from eachothers thoughts and that is very important too.

Its like Michael Rupperts idea of creating a map, a tool of the landscape of world events which can help you see where you are, and what course options you have to avoid the bad things happening in the realms the maps shows. If your just operating blind, you will be lost for sure.

Each will have to decide given all the knowledge and information what they can, and more importantly will do. Everyone has their unique circumstance, and what some are able to do towards preparing, others cannot. Theres always however " something " you can do towards this end.

In thinking of all of this I've often flashed back to a scene from the Sumatran Tsunami that showed a lone individual who had wandered out into a bay that had been emptied of its waters as a prelude to the tidal wave surge that was to come. You see this man standing on the sand with a giant long wall of tumultous angry surge waters rushing towards him, and he is looking at it ( I can only imagine what he must have been thinking or feeling ), and just before impact, he turns away and he is gone. There was nothing he could do, no sense in even running.

Sometimes that is how all this collapse stuff can feel to my mind, like that man facing the tidal wave, where can we run to find saftey. But we still do have options and choices, and as well as keeping up with the changing realities as they unfold which is something we do regularly here, we can also consider and discuss the issues related to our experiences of coping and managing our individual situations as collapse deepens. Everyone has differant ideas and knowledge, and you never know how your contributions in thought will ultimately help someone else in ways you did not expect :-)

freeacre said...

Re: "bouquet of elbows." Sure. But, I have to "fess up." I remembered it from something that I read years ago, and just liked a lot. Might have been out of Confederacy of Dunces, but that is just a vapor of a guess by now. No clue, really. But it does give a great visual,eh?
And, Hot Springs, we gather and we kick this stuff around and do the stuff that we do, and eventually, we come to terms with it, or, maybe we establish a peace with it. ... or maybe not. for some, angst may turn to resolve. But, either way, we seem to be "walking the mile" together, (from "The Green Mile" by Stephen King)as it were. It feels to me like a privilege.

rockpicker said...

Webster Tarpley was interviewed on Rense last night. Good show. Here's a link where he's talking about George Soros and a dinner meeting he held with some of his financial buddies to brainstorm strategy regarding Greece and the destruction of the world financial system.

rockpicker said...

Some days, the stories just seem to intertwine, like the roots of Scooter Libby's aspens.

rockpicker said...

Hey, Hotsprings;

See this?

Anonymous said...

like the roots of Scooter Libby's aspens.

or the evil tentacles of sidney gottlieb's associate monster doctors. some pretty big names too. like ewan cameron, one of the most notorious doctors in a long list of same involved in mk-ultra, mind control, etc, etc, etc. while playing that little game he also served as president of the world phychiatric association as well as american and canadian phychiatric associations and was a member of the nuremburg medical tribunal. and we think freud was off the deep end!

these type know all about the "breaking point"! and all in the name of patriotism!!

then there were the jeckyl and hide madmen scientists developing bio-agents as weapons of mass destruction under the guise of advancing classical science. all of them and more answered to gotleib. and he answered to allan dulles, then director of the cia.

but that was 50 years ago and everybody would like to think such no longer happens. just like they'd like to think la cosa nostra is no longer an item.

wizard... wanna CURE FOR THE INSIDIOUS CANCERS OF "HOPE" AND "FAITH"? go pick up a copy of gordon thomas's SECRETS & LIES: A HISTORY OF CIA TORTURE AND BIO-WEAPON EXPERIMENTS. published 07.

"Germ warfare? Secret mind control programs? New tell-all to be featured prominently in a National Geographic television special recounts the CIA's dirtiest deeds from insiders who have been there. In the late summer of 2001, prolific and best-selling British author Gordon Thomas received five CD-ROM disks, containing some 22,000 documents relating to secret CIA programs. None has been published...until now. In the shocking new release Secrets and Lies: A History of CIA Mind Control and Germ Warfare, author Thomas unleashes horrific accounts of the CIA's sick relationship with physicians and scientists whose aim it was to obtain control over the human mind and perfect the ultimate killing machine: germ microbes. Relying on sources that touch the very top echelon of the CIA, Thomas s methodical reporting concentrates on a triangle of men: Dr. Sidney Gottlieb, William "Bill" Buckley, and Frank Olson. Gottlieb, the former chief of the CIA's Technical Services Branch, organized an unprecedented system of medical torture using a team of like-minded staff doctors. Frank Olson was a former CIA scientist whose death sparked his son to find out who killed his father and why. And then there is Buckley, a long-serving CIA officer and an unparalleled source because of his position as a point man for the MK-ULTRA program and special assistant to Bill Casey, director of the CIA under President Ronald Reagan. Secrets and Lies lays out the facts about the CIA s massive stockpiling of biological weapons and tells the entire story of the CIA's mind control experiments, as seen largely through the eyes of Buckley, ending with his death at the hands of Hezhbollah."

that'll cure it!! ... p

rockpicker said...

Maybe Gore Vidal will review it for us!

Echelon? I thought that was a building in Austin.

Thanks, P. Great job. I'll look up that book.

The National Geographic is running an expose' on the CIA, and telling all? Wish I had a tv for that one!

Stoney, this one's for you...

Hotspringswizard said...

Baz, I was joking about needing the hint, and the other part, stars good, homes bad, got it :-)

P, I'm not infected with hope and faith so I won't be needing that cure :-) Its just unbelieveable what these friggin monsters are up to!

Rockpicker, I checked out that Counter Currents link to the SAG Protest, thanks. I forwarded it to my brother. Mauro, my brothers friend is a great guy. All of us got together up at his place last fall when we were up there visiting and after a meal we did some sweating in his homemade sauna room which had all sorts of cools stuff sitting about in it on ledges. Mauro is used to the heat as he does sweat lodge ceremonies on his property with friends :-) He used to be the care taker of Big Bend Hot Springs for three years in the little community of Big Bend and one of his children was actually born in one of the hotpools there :-)

Mauro has 40 acres in the small community of Montgomery Falls, which is about 25 miles or so east of Redding on HWY 299. He has a great spot and has a creek running through his property. He built three dome homes there which they live in. He is off the grid and gets his power from a hydro system that works off of the creek. He is doing permaculture growing in the forest all around the home. Mauro told me when I was getting ready to leave, that when collapse comes, there will always be a place for me where he's at. I know he meant it. He is one of the most sincere and heart warming people you would ever meet.

He and my brother have been working the chemtrail issues in their area. Alot of the testing of soils and water as was described in the Counter Currents article was actually done by my brother, with samples sent off to a local lab. My brother was the one who asked David Keith in the SAG meeting the question about the aluminum use. I know Debra Whitman got that exchange on video but I haven't heard from Dane ( my brother ) if that is out on any web links yet.

Well I did a hike to Deep Creek Hot Springs today. I've been going there for 25 years. The weather was crisp, around 44 degrees, had to wade across the creek waters of Deep Creek to get to the hot pools on the other side ( creek temp around 42 ). Only 1 other person there and I had the biggest hot pool called the Womb to myself the whole time. Its always such a relaxing a soothing experience to soak in those special waters which come from down deep in Mother Earth. The water has been tested and they say there is Lithium in it. Ahhhh, I feel better already!

If you want to see the hot pool I'm talking about I took a photo of it the last time I was there.
Just go to:

and look for the photo on the first page that shows a beautiful emerald hot pool with a green and brown tuft of grass above it. I was standing right there in the middle of it just a few hours ago :-)

Hotspringswizard said...

In this story:

Pentagon gunman was 9/11 conspiracy theorist acting alone, say officials........

Is this small excerpt of John Bedell's thinking about our crimminal government:

" "This organisation, like so many murderous governments throughout history, would see the sacrifice of thousands of its citizens, in an event such as the September 11 attacks, as a small cost in order to perpetuate its barbaric control," he wrote in a post in 2006.

"This collection of gangsters would find it in their interest to foment conflict and initiate wars throughout the world, in order to divert attention from their misconduct and criminality. The true nature of such a regime would find its clearest expression in the satanic violence currently ongoing in Iraq."

I had not seen anything on this guys motivations but figured it would be something like this. There is also a couple of links which look like they go to some more of his thoughts. This article included these comments and the implication is clearly there that only a crazy person would think such things, a 9-11 Conspiracy Theory Nutcase!

For the PTB, war is peace, greed is good, and a person who tells the truth is called crazy, etc, etc.

Anonymous said...

Something for a Sunday...


freeacre said...

Thanks, Ely. I've got another Sunday thing for us:

It's a very short little fanciful science fiction story that I found delightful, "They're made of meat."

Anonymous said...

HA ha ha ...good one FA, yep made of meat alright and we think with what?? Meat

Here is a good rant by someone who I think gets it...