Thursday, July 1, 2010

HOW TO DEAL WITH THE WORLD?




After a very cool spring and very slow growth, garden is finally showing progress

Huge morel shrooms found behind the well house recently. Can't find any more

from Murph

I know that many people that frequent this site spend some amount of time reading and collecting information and much of it is shared in the comments and doubtlessly by email to friends and acquaintances. You also know that Freeacre and I spend a rather disproportionate amount of time doing the same. The problem that I experience is the contradictions I keep running across. Here is an example.

In the June 23 post from the Archdruid;
http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.com/

He makes an excellent case for why mass movements quickly die out, become subverted to other agendas and are thus ineffective.

Now over the years, I have found Michael Greer to be a thoughtful a fairly precise thinker. He is also very well read and examines a very large and varied amount of subject matter and does a good job of drawing it together to reach conclusions. I have much respect for the man and I will read what he has to say.

The above mentioned article makes a good case for how mass movements are directed by the masses that enlist in it, not the ideas that the founders first advocated. This, to me, seems somewhat contradictory to the huge propaganda that is thrust on us daily by the mass media, especially television. The question is, does the mass media control the masses or do the masses control the output of the mass media? A new mass movement called The Tea Party is a good example of Greer’s contentions in my view. It has virtually been taken over by the political far right and has so many internal contradictions I can’t see how anyone would jump on that band wagon.

On the other side of this, I read nearly every day somebody’s opinion concerning what needs to be done, namely, a mass movement of some kind to thwart the PTB and their plans for one world government controlled by them, complete ownership of everything and charging the citizen to use any of it and absolutely controlling the money supply too. Now right off the bat, I agree with these missives. Indeed, if the majority of citizens around the world woke up to what is being done to them and refused to cooperate any longer, the whole scheme would fall apart. In my view, this is simply not going to happen, and yet, it is what is needed to happen to reverse the direction we are going in as a society. I draw your attention to an article that appeared at;

“Fighting the new world order” http://thecrowhouse.com/ftnwo.html

He makes a good case for the urgency of this to happen. In my lifetime, there is nothing new in this article, (with one exception) it’s all been said before; If people would just wake up and understand what is transpiring and what is being done to them and refuse to cooperate, it would cease. The exception I can not deal with rationally is his contention that the world is not overpopulated. He says that all 6 billion people could be put in Australia with ¼ acre each and have room left over and on which they could grow their own food, and all the rest of the world would be empty to do with as we please. I am assuming that all of you reading this can see the absolute ridiculousness of this contention. I have come across the same contention once before and choked on my morning coffee when I read it. My reaction was “what idiot can possibly say something like that?”

So you see the intellectual bind I see here? If Greer is correct, and The Crow House is correct, we have some real problems on a solution to the problem. So I am thrown back to the dichotomy of: situations vs predicament. Situations have solutions, Predicaments have to be lived around, there are no solutions/fixes. Talk about cognitive dissonance!
On the one hand the only solution is a necessity and on the other hand the solution is impossible.

Notice the supposition; the only solution is a mass movement. We have lots of really smart people on this planet. I have read many ideas of how to change things. They generally fall into only a few categories; 1. Changing the system, 2. Changing the people running the system, and 3. The non compliance/revolution rebellion by the masses. Can anyone reading this come up with something outside of the box? As I see it, the only thing that would significantly change how things are done is #3 and it sure appears to me to have a very small probability of success, at least in some kind of idealistic form that makes a whole new way of doing business.

I hate to rain on the parade going on out there, but it sure appears to me that none of these will work at this time. Even during the early 1700’s, with a fairly large dissatisfaction with England’s rule over the colonies, only 40% of the people supported the rebellion. After the revolution, there was significant resistance to areas becoming states within the union. I suppose it is to the determination of the rebellious leaders we must give kudos for following it through and a separate country with states eventually joining in is what we ended up with instead of a handful of separate countries on this continent.

Do you remember Joules speech he gave before he capped someone in Pulp Fiction?
“The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness. For he is truly his brother’s keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you?”

This little quote/speech has some appearance of authenticity but is not actually a Biblical quote. His last 2 statements are; “The truth is you’re the weak and I’m the tyranny of evil men. But I’m tryin’, Ringo. I’m tryin’ real hard to be the shepherd”.

Recognizing this is a movie script, but taking the quote as having some meaning to everyday life, who among us is “tryin; real hard to be the shepherd”? When human society has been put into a box where the only out is violence, where does the shepherd come in and what can he realistically do? If human society simply is incapable of understanding what is being done to them or just plain denies or ignores what is being done, what hope does a shepherd have? Over the years it has been rather obvious that people and their governments are pretty much disconnected, and it sure seems to me to be getting worse in that aspect. Periodically a shepherd appears, either in illusion or actuality, and the same old shit just keeps happening. It sure appears to me that humans are a pretty flawed creation, either by a god or by circumstances. There are times that I’m ashamed to be a part of it. And yet, there is the good, there is the honest, there is the person of integrity, of peacefulness. I reckon seeking out or showing a better way is where it is at. As Charles Smith calls it, the people he calls “the remnant” that show a way. The shepherds?

A tack on:

Today is Thursday morning as I write this. The news this morning seems really ominous. Lots of positive assurance of Israel attack on Iran, GOM becoming more and more a world wide catastrophe, the economic mess gets even more negative and no leadership on the horizon to deal with any of this. Sure looks to me that human kind (carbon based life forms as a friend likes to put it) have intentionally, or by arrogance, or by stupidity created a whole bunch of predicaments. The threat level appears to be increasing day by day. If this is all intentional (as some writers insist) or was unforeseen consequences, either way there is a high probability that as a society and individually, we are doomed. I often wonder if Freeacres and my preparations are for naught. But what would we have done differently? Join the herd and strive for personal immediate gratification? Join the herd and shop till we drop for something to ease the anxiety swirling around us? My intuition tells me that the answers will be forth coming before too long.

87 comments:

freeacre said...

Following up from the last post: Rockpicker, what do you make with sourkrout other than hot dogs with sourkraut?

Anonymous said...

From Belgium

Sure, we need a Joules, someone with the universal appeal of Bruce Willis who happens to be playing in the background as I write this. A smart lone gunman who can correctly identify the PTB not the ones we are pointed at and do what is necessary. That as we know is Hollywood and this is comment is another form of entertainment ‘cause we all know it aint gona happen. And even if it did would it be appreciated or out trumped by a sale at Wally World? Yes I do what I can but so long everything on the surface appears unruffled nobody takes the signs seriously so it becomes a contest of who shakes their head and walks away first.

This last week and part of next I am helping my brother in Law move house. Going to the coast for a final weekend before Chris’s parents move house at the end of the month and hope it will all play out before the collapse begins in earnest. Phew!

Anonymous said...

From Belgium

Was anyone aware that Frank Bainimarama in Fiji has just declared foreign owned media illegal and kicked out Rupert’s Fiji Times? What a guy! But mark my words, he will go the same way as Mugabe. Mugabe’s big sin was not to play ball with the World Bank so they took his country away anyway and left him as ruler of nothing. Some would say he had it coming but that is another thing. Anybody heard anything about Fiji? It sure demonstrates the power of the press.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/greenslade/2010/jun/28/press-freedom-fiji

I seem to remember that the white honkies of South Africa tried censorship of articles not outright banning of newspapers before the fall of the regime and journalists responded by printing white space in the papers where the red pen had crossed the draft.

Anonymous said...

WOW! -Freaking EXCELLENT post, Murph,

I've been reading and pondering the same sorta stuff and getting the jelly in my cranium all jiggly for a long time about mass protests, the futility of mass movements, changing the system, etc., but I just couldn't seem to jot down the contradictions that were causing the jiggliness onto post or a blog or something (probably due to WAY too much beer consumption).
-Thanks Murph.

I was thinking on starting a blog, "yougottabefuckingkiddingme.blogspot.com" but my typing is so bad it'd take me forever just to log-on.

I think the corporate media has done a very good job these past few decades at "divide and rule" with their Dem vs Repub or liberal vs conservative BS to the point where it would be pretty much impossible for a "shepherd" to emerge to take the flock to a better field. We're all way too divided in Murika, which makes mass protests or mass strikes impossible. I mean, compared to the French or the Greeks, Murikans are pussies! But then again, since we Murikans ARE so divided, AND packing heat, it might be very hard to create some sorta world government controlled by a bunch of filthy rich sonsofbitches. I mean, try driving a nice new BMW to a hood in South Philly, stop, get out and stand next to the car. Can you say, "death wish?" More like "Escape to New York," man.

That stuff about "6 billion people could be put in Australia with ¼ acre each and have room left over and on which they could grow their own food..." WTF? Right. I just wish people would stop with the "Global Swarming" crap and get spayed and neutered. The Mormon church's policy of mass breeding means a 5 bedroom house is the norm here in the capitol of Glenbeckistan. And then they wonder why the air quality here is worse than LA's.

So, after reading everything and anything on the blogsphere these past few weeks, I'm wondering if the crazy mofo's in israel and their puppets here are planning some real super-duper, false-flag fireworks for this weekend. The bastards. I best stock up on beer, man.

Ok, enough of my spewage. I best git -

Randy

murph said...

Belgium,

That film is so interesting. Showing the multi facets of human personalities in the extreme and dealing with setbacks and things going wrong around them. Where are those ninjas when we need them?

Yup, something will soon be amiss in Fiji.

Randy

Thanks. Some days are more inspiring than others. Yup, they've done an excellent job of dividing the populace into different agendas and promoting extreme partisanship.

Seen this article?
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128078864&sc=emaf&source=patrick.net

My blood pressure went up while reading that one.

Let's just hope that the "captains of the universe" get real pretty soon before the pitchforks become a fashion accessory.

I keep seeing more and more articles recently where the authors want the truth concerning the GOM. I have to laugh on that one. Just what would they expect to happen if Obama said, "folks, we are going to force evacuation of everyone withing 400 miles of the gulf to the north, and 200 miles east from the Atlantic coast of Florida up to North Carolina. This may last for at least 20 years, so get packing up and get out now before we come in with the military and put you in a FEMA camp".

That is of course if the damned gas pocket doesn't blow up and destroy about everything from the Mississippi to the Atlantic coast.

Heard there is shaking and rattling going on along the New Madrid fault line.

Yup all we need now is another false flag op of the size or bigger than 9-11.

My dots line up in the "we are so doomed" order

Anonymous said...

There is a fourth possibility for change, and it's always been in the box with the rest of them: Change yourself and the way you look at it all. Don't mean to be glib, because things in general are truly fucked up and probably not going to get better any time soon, but the perennial wisdoms that ride along with all the prophesies consistently point to that approach as well. What else can you really do? No matter how you slice it, we're all just passing through. Do your best with what you have and where you are. Your "preparations" aren't for nothing if they come from your heart.

RAS said...

Regarding Greer's post, he never asserted that mass movements don't get anything done, just that they are often ineffective in achieving their original aims. They often do accomplish things -sometimes bad, sometimes good, and I think his broad sweep was a bit too broad. The Civil Rights Movement was a mass movement that accomplished most of what it sat out to do.

OTOH, the women's equality movement got co-opted by corporate interests and instead of giving women true equality and the right to choose their destiny, somehow turned exclusively into the "right" to work 40 hour weeks at a job you hate next to your male colleagues, and not a whole lot else.

So I think people both under- and over- estimate the power of mass movements. Greer makes a lot of good points.

I do not think a mass movement against the PTB would do a lot of good. That's one rebellion that would be easy to squash. Also, I don't think it would be likely to happen. If every person in the world was somehow forced to wake up to what is happening tomorrow, how many would do anything about it? Many of the ones I know would welcome all this crap if they were guaranteed security.

No, I don't think such a movement would have any effect at all. But if mass numbers of people dropped out and quit participating in this madness -that would have an effect. Most people are even less likely to make changes in their own lives than to join a mass movement, however.

Anonymous said...

the reference to 1/4 acre farming probably derives out of masanobu fukuoka's work "The One-Straw Revolution." If you don't know about it, you are missing ALot! There is a fukuoka farming group on yahoo where people help each other.

mrs p said...

Murph & FA
No, not for naught! How and why you live is beautiful. You are in tune with nature and the "world crisis". You're on track. The awswers are here now. We all try not to see them. I feel like the SHTF a long time ago and now it's beginning to show. We all need to keep working towards "your examples" and haulin water and choppin wood. And the breaking bread, sharing food, sunsets, a little hoochie and makin music is all part of it. What else can we do but "talk story" and give our hopes, dreams and ideals to the Universe with love. Happy 4th to everyone. Love you, mrs p

mrs p said...

P.S. Just thought I'd add this...some folks around this lil' beach town of ours think Cheney has his fingers in the GOM pie and they're also saying it's far more damaging than what any "terrist" could ever do to us. Yes the lingering affects of generations of cancer victims I suppose and an entire dead zone for the U.S.

Could something positive ever come out of several states being destroyed? Those predictions about things getting really ugly
for a while are making more and more sense.

I think the reality of this disaster is beginning to sink in, at least to a few anyway. And now there's talk (from BP employees on the ground in Alaska) that the same disaster could happen up there any day now and possibly even a worse case scenario due to failing equipment and lack of safety concerns on the part of the "shirts at the desks" who take zero risk with their own lives but continually destroy their workers lives on the North slopes.

Oh and check out "Crude" at momsreallymad.

Hotspringswizard said...

Well Murph you remind me once again of why I value the Trout Clan, and the musings of both you and Freeacre. Great thoughts there! I also appreciate much the comments of those who come here too.

Regarding the part in your entry about population and putting people in a small place, and the idea that this could imply that in reality the world could absorb a whole lot more people, its thinking like that which keeps the masses following and being ok with the doomed infinite growth paradigm.

You wrote, “what idiot can possibly say something like that?”, well one those people would be my step dad. He has pulled up that lame argument before, but his version is even more unbelievably crazy. He cites that if you took all of the people on earth and put them standing up in one place, the land they occupy would be so small, with all of the rest of the world left empty, so how could anyone possibly think that the world is over-populated! Jeeeesch! And for my mom and Skip ( my stepdad ) Faux News and Glen Beck are gospel to them. I just don't bother any more trying to awaken them.

You wrote Murph that you feel the Human Race is doomed which I agree with too. I would point out that when I speak of us being doomed, I'm not trying to imply that I think humans will be leaving completely the scene anytime soon, unless that is some dramatic event wipes us all out in one fell swoop, which clearly enough will happen at some point, like the sun in its natural life cycle frying the planet maybe in as little as a billion years down the road ( I think its very likely something else will do the deed before then ).

So for myself, my feeling of our being doomed describes a situation where humans continue the rampant fouling of their nest, their home in the great emptiness of space, because it is inherent in the very nature of their unique attribute, the mind and its complex and unpredictable workings, showing us to be a species not so well adapted after all for longer term dominance amonst the living things on this magnificent sphere.

continued

Hotspringswizard said...

Survival of the fittest is the stronger force to drive human action, while the more complex and high minded ideals of ethical conduct is further down the list of basic survival priorities. Realative material abundance allows for the latter to thrive to some extent in better times, but as the world situation becomes more dire humanity will begin gravitating in much more ernest back to the kinds of harsh behavior which allows the strong to dominate the weak, because that really is the most basic theme that drives living things towards the goal of carrying their genes foward in a " succesful " fashion.

How many will truly hold on to their high minded morality when the pressures of basic survival threaten their or thier loved ones demise? For each of us who value the merit of decent behavior, the times ahead will be a great test of how much will we really have within to hold on to these concepts, in thought and more importantly in our action.

Murph, referencing your #3 possible solution to the varied problems of our societal structure and its doomed trajectory, I think you are correct in thinking that even this option will not solve our predicament. The vast majority of the populations of the industrialized societies I think won't be " dropping out " as any type of perceived " solution ", and rather the degrading realities on the ground will force the issue, and by then we all know things will be very precarious indeed.

I do think it is valued time spent to prepare for the kinds of coming realities we here basically understand are coming. There of course is no gauruntee that you will benifit fully from your preperations depending on how the future unfolds, but better to put your efforts in this endeavor, providing for your well being until such time that events may make your effort moot because of overwhelming circumstances. It certainly makes sense if you plan on sticking around and have an interest in having some sort of somewhat stable life for yourself and your loved ones.

As I have said here before I think there is definite benifit derived from the discourse and the sharing of ideas that occurs in such constructs like here at the Trout Clan. I do not expect that what we do here is saving the world from its errant course into troubled times, but it does serve other purposes like the value of providing for our greater awarness of what is occuring and why, ideas are posed on how we might cope with the changing times both mentally and practically, and even the reward of being a part of a small collective individuals coming together to try to understand the myriad complexities of what this human journey is bringing to our lives. Our time here can provide these and other important benifits. I always find the information here very worthwhile :-)

Hotspringswizard said...

Here is a recent response of mine to an article sent to my brother and I by our friend who has become enthralled with the " ideas " of Faux News and Glen Beck. The article was a long list of things the author was tired of in regards to the ills beseting the US, and he was venting his un-reasoned blame in so many ridiculous directions, arguments which at their base implied that the US was merely the unfortunate victim of evil outside forces that mean us harm! My brother had issued his own response just previous to mine.

.....Well put there Dane! I concur with those thoughts completely. The US has devolved into an Oligarchy at this point, especially in consideration of the recent Citizens United supreme court case decision, with only the fake facade of any true democracy left. The US military is used as a tool for the elite groups to further agenda's which have nothing to do with any benevolent purpose. Aside from that what goes on in the places we have INVADED is a gigantic cesspool of rampant corruption, with the various private parties involved making obscene amounts of money all at the expense of the US working class taxpayers. Afganistan and Iraq are not wars, they were unilateral US invasions followed up by ongoing US occupations of those countries. It has nothing to do with helping the people of those lands, spreading so called " Democracy ". We are there to plunder those lands resources, because we are stronger ( for now ) and they are weaker. We want those lands for the many military bases we have now built there from which we can try to maintain control of the Middle East hydrocarbon energy resources. The multi-national corporations are now in the process of moving into Afganistan to plunder other vital substances that can be mined there. The average american lives in the mental world of the manufactured reality it has been fed by all of the corportation owned mass media. When the elites develop a specific objective of what they wish to plunder, they always begin the assault with programs in the media that seek to demonize those parties, people, countries that could stop them from getting what they wish. Iran is a very good example of how this works. Iran has not attacked another country in hundreds of years, and its against their religious tennants to even build or have something like a nuclear weapon. All the reasonable evidence shows that they are working on developing a nuclear ENERGY program only. They have not threatened attack on anyone, and yet, the corporation media has very successfully demonized Iran to the point that most americans think that Iran is a vile nest where all its people are running around chanting " destroy american " while holding their sidewinder missle launchers! Its just beyond ridiculous and yet most americans just lap this stuff up, hook, line and sinker.

continued

Hotspringswizard said...

I will stand no matter what comes with people of reason, those who can rationally think for themselves and decipher all of the pervasive BS we are surrounded by and are ones who hold true in their actual actions to a reasonable and fair set of ethical standards. It is with those people that I will work toward meeting our dire unfolding future. I am not beholden or loyal to any country, nation, state, political party, religion, or other various groups, because I find that people of the high standards of character I would choose to be around exist essentially as individuals scattered about here and there. People think they can just chant the name of their country and wave a flag and somehow that makes what they believe and do noble and unquestionably " right ". Its pure BS but this kind of shallow thinking is basically what runs our world, saddly enough.

There is a worldwide shit storm of epic proportions now beginning to ramp up, with much, much worse to come as the various components of our utterly unsustainable industrial socities continue the unraveling process which will be moving at a quickening pace now that world energy suppies are entering a new period, for the foreseable future, of being increasingly more expensive and increasingly less abundant ( there will be no replacement for oil and the myriad things it provided to us ). The societies we have built do not work without this energy. Alternative energy or " technology " will also not save us either. As in the article being referenced here about this dude being tired of this, tired of that, there is going to be a grand pervasivness of things being misconstrued, and vehement blame being thrown in a kalidescope of eroneous directions. I for one believe that your best bet is not to waste to much time trying to wake people like this type up because the vast majority of them will never budge in their Alice In Wonderland type nutty take on why things are what they are. Best to apply yourself on bolstering your local ability to sustain yourself regarding the degrading economic conditions because the affluence of recent decades is the last gasp of the worldwide infinite growth economic systems which have complety overshot the carrying capacity of the biosphere, the actual true " wealth " which makes everything we enjoy possible. The long overdue reckoning is no longer just coming, it is here.

Hotspringswizard said...

I don't know if its just something amiss with my computer but the blogger software to post comments here has been a bit screwed up lately.

Pawta said...

This is a very trying process all human psyches are being subjected to these days, one which began being described for Judaean-Christian Bible readers from at least the times of Daniel. Besides that, anyone who knows how to read and think should no longer doubt that these are end times of one world of human experience whereof we are simultaneously being informed on how to prepare ourselves for a markedly different one coming into place. Religion and science are becoming one and the same.

Those who do well at transitioning this period will know the future and continue being integral components of it, those who do not will cease to exist. Pretty obvious straight-forward stuff; wouldn't you say?

Peace and wisdom to all.

freeacre said...

Well stated, Pawta.

Man, Murph and I feel like we've "been rode hard and put away wet" as we took part in the 4th of July festivities of a small town. We just spent two days doing the Grange Farmers Mkt and watched a great parade replete with a whole bunch of restored antique cars, the lawnmower racers, horse-drawn carriages, and horse and riders bedecked with beautiful flowers and glitter and little kids and dogs, mountain men and so forth.Tomorrow is the rodeo and then a party with a Hawaiian pig roast and fireworks. Quite the effort for a little town. There are some good things left in this goofy culture.

Anonymous said...

Or goofy things left in this good culture.

Oldensoul eats sourkrout straight outta the jar.

MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM...

-rp

murph said...

Anonymous July 2.

I have periodically seen information on Masanubu_Fukuoka. I haven't seen much and since you mentioned it, I Googled his name and almost with no exception, was directed to his book.

My impression; Under the right circumstances, he has an interesting concept on how to grow food. I do not in any way think it is a panacea nor has it universal application. And since I haven't read the book, I have no idea if it was presenting something akin to the idea that the world is not overpopulated.

Now when I have read suff that suggest that we do not have an overpopulation problem, it invariably contains some kind of comparable story like the 1/4 acre per person in Australia. Now even if I concede that if every household was allotted 1/4 acre of land and a house and it is an area where food can be grown (not the desert of Australia) and that on 1/4 acre with a house, septic system and water system was possible (which it is not) a bad growing season is still going to cause wide misery and starvation because there would be no back up food for such circumstances.

If we want to examine this carefully, lets talk about infrastructure for distribution to 6 billion people of electricity, or water or Jesus, whatever. Even if 6 billion people suddenly decided to grow their own food, who in hell is going to force the land owners to break up their land holdings into 1/4 acre plots?

As for Fukuoka's concept of growing food; it is interesting and I actually tried it on a small section of the garden a couple of years ago. Whatever is characteristic of this section of the country we might want to talk about, it didn't work for me. Quit literally the non edible weeds took over and the food crop was very minimal. I suspect that our soil conditions and weather just would not make this possible here. Optimum growing conditions are found in only a very small part of earths land mass and crowding 6 billion of us onto every square inch of it would drive me up the wall, and does not mention what we would do for contamination of soils from sewage etc. Composting humanure is great, I want to get into it, but one mistake and you got more SHTF problems.

Sorry, nope, don't buy it.

Zoner said...

There is a certain freedom that comes with the realization that we are, in fact, doomed.






Even while we aren't.


Z

Hotspringswizard said...

Pawta, might you be " RanD " ( RanD = Ruthie and David ), ones who contributed comments at Michael Ruppert's now closed FTW2 Forum?

Pawta said...

Hotspringswizard, you're spot on re Pawta having been RanD who contributed comments @ FTW Act 2. In fact, we have you to thank for turning us on to this fine blog from your last FTW post. Thanks! Good to be chatting with you again :)

Hotspringswizard said...

Well Ruthie and David, I like your new name here, Pawta :-) Does this name represent anything in particular for you both, or did you just make it up ( it sounds like an Indian name of some sort )?

Glad that you decided to come and share some of your thoughts with us here at the Trout Clan Campfire. Freeacre and Murph are really fine folks and I appreciate this little place of coming together they have created to discuss the troubled times we are now beginning to experience in more ernest.

I think it is very much a sign of the kind of people they are in that they make the point at the top of their blog to say that " The strength of our site is in the comments of those who attend the campfire ". Perhaps together, sharing our ideas, we can come to understand more clearly where we are going, and what are the important things we should do to prepare ourselves for the myriad challenges of these quickly transitioning times. We each have differant things to offer, unique thoughts and feelings about the experience of this unfolding future :-)

Hotspringswizard said...

Mrs P, I gather from your comments that you live somewhere in So Cal and are interested in the earthquake activity in this area ( we live in Apple Valley ). Isn't it true that we are overdue for a major earthquake down here on the southern end of the San Andreas fault? Something that may, or may not be related to this has to do with something that has happened at Deep Creek Hot Springs which I have frequented since 1984 ( just going there for a real nice day on 7-3 ).

I have measured the temps of the various sources of hot water there along with the hotpools themselves also over the years. Fairly recently a regular who visits there too and checks the hot pool tempuratures was citing temps above what is normal for these hot pools.

So this Saturday ( yesterday ) I measured the three main hot water sources that I normally do and the temp of each had increased two degrees. The temps of these sources has been very consistent all the years before I have measured them. So it appears something is heating these sources up a bit. It makes me think that something must be differant down in the fault where this hot water comes from. The San Andreas fault is about 20 miles aprox as the Raven flies from these springs :-)

Who knows, maybe the Big One for So Cal is coming sooner rather than later. These DCHS hot spring waters heating up reminds me of the scene in the movie Dantes Peak where a couple are enjoying a soak in a hot spring on the slopes of this dormant volanoe ( Dantes Peak ), then suddenly the hot pool gets real hot very suddenly, like boiling hot and fries these two unfortunates like a couple of lobsters! They are found a bit later by a scientist and others who are up in the area inspecting for signs of what might be causing recent tremors on the mountain. Looks like I better watch out at Deep Creek Hot Springs. I don't want to end up like a poached egg :-)

Anonymous said...

Hotspringswizzard, yes we agree and it sounds like you may be on to something with the rise in the temps of the hot springs waters. The local geologists say we are most certainly overdue on the San Andreas moving and having a big one and as you know there has been a lot of activity around here.

We also liked your post where you talked about overshoot on the capacity of the biosphere. We saw some programs yesterday on Free Speech TV where they were talking about different eco systems around the world and how they all interact with each other and how when species disappear etc. things begin to break down and when there are agricultural places on earth that for centuries were unique and diversified now through chemicals etc. all becomming "homoginzied" and they're breaking down a delicate system that no longer supports itself. mrsp

Pawta said...

Hotspringswizard,

Pawta is an unintentional acronym for 'Peace and wisdom to all'; and does have an Indian 'flavor' to it, which goes well with the Great Spirit which Murph and Freeacre have brought alive at this unique blog.

We, too, are very much taken with Murph's and Freeacre's especially wise and simple introductory words -- "The strength of our site is in the comments of those who attend the campfire." It is clear to us that a better understanding of each other and our shared world is knitting together as we share our thoughts & feelings here at Trout Clan Campfire... an open airwaves cyber-sweat lodge created especially for these special times, perhaps? :-)

Peace and wisdom to all.

Hotspringswizard said...

Mrs P, I also watch Free Speech TV and Link TV regularly. Those channels were the main reason I signed up for dish TV. That upcoming documentary " Crude " you mentioned in a post earlier was discussed in one of the programs on Free Speech TV. They talked to the people who made this documentary and showed a few clips from it. It looks very good and I want to see it.

Another documentary that will be coming out ( or maybe its out already ) is " Gasland " which I also heard was very good and disucsses the US gas industry, specifically focusing on " fracking " which is a newer technology used to get the gas out of strata deep in the earth. They pump lots of toxic chemical down into the earth when using this process, fouling the local groundwater in many cases. These corporations are trading short term supplies of gas and the profits they make selling it with the reality of wrecking local groundwater sources essentially forever in the areas affected. Its just crazy!

lucretiasheart said...

Hey Murph!

Excellent post and just along the lines of what I've been thinking a whole lot about lately.

We NEED a "mass movement" to change things, but the truth of the matter is that Greer, sadly, is right--. Even if we get mass movements, we're not going to get the ones we want. People will insist on the easiest "feel-good" or "blame ____ and get revenge" way out, and those just aren't going to be good enough for the changes needed. The flock isn't listening to OUR shepherds, only the manipulative ones who are using them for their own ends. We're whispers in a howling wind. Unheard and futile.

So I fear Greer's correct about several other things-- it's out of our hands, and it's too late to make the needed changes on a massive scale to make this easier for everyone anyway. All we can do is BE the change for ourselves and those who see Decline/Collapse coming. All we can do is offer help and hope to ourselves and those who DO listen. All we can do is what we're trying to do now, people like you guys and us and those who come here to read your blog.

If it helps-- you and freeacre and Greer and Carolyn Baker have been MY shepherds. I knew about much of this vaguely years ago-- but you guys pulled my attention to what I needed to see and helped me handle the truth of this emotionally. I'm now passing that on to others. It's slow, much slower than we'd like! But we're further along than last year, and every month we get a few more tiny steps along.

{{BEAR HUGS}}

murph said...

Lucretia,

Why thank you most honored lady. Perhaps in the process of making clearer in our own minds by blogging, we share with others and a few more get on the wagon.

Hmm, maybe I should get a shepherds staff?

freeacre said...

lol...you forget, My Dear, that we DO have shephards's staffs! As Assistant Stewards of the Grange, we carry these long staffs with the shepard's crook on the end. I guess the Universe is teasing us. Ha!

Thanks, You Guys, for the kind thoughts.

Anonymous said...

I rented "The Road" this past weekend and geez! -they should put a warning on the box saying, "WARNING: Watching this film might cause suicide. Do not consume alchohal while watching this film. Keep away from all sharp objects for at least eight hours after viewing has been completed."

They never said what it was that destroyed everything, but it seemed to be something like a cataclysmic 2012-ish event. And I wondered why there were no animals, just people roaming around munching on each other. You know, looking at the mental state of the sheeple I encounter, the scenario depicted in the movie might not be far off. And I wonder about preparing. I wonder if the only way to prepare for something like a pole shift is to hold-up on a farm out in the middle of nowhere with tons of food and a tremendous amount of firepower (i.e. M-60's, RPG's, land mines, etc.). And, it made me ponder the reason why the filthy rich constructed a seed vault in Norway. Could it be that Scandinavia will one day be very close to a new equator? Ok, stop pondering, Randy.

Well, I brewed some beer this past weekend and it should be ready to consume in about three weeks. Hopefully the BRIC countries will figure out a way to stop the US from attacking Iran by that time so I can drink it in moderation.

Oh, and by the way, "moderation" is an imaginary place that exists wherever I am. Ha!

Later-

Randy

Murph & Freeacre said...

folks,

Blogspot is having all kinds of trouble with the comment sections of postings. Went to the help site and there were over 500 postings concerning this from yesterday alone.

God knows when it will be fixed. Wonder if this is part of Obamas shutting down of traffic. sigh

Hotspringswizard said...

The GOM Gusher situation will clearly be creating problems for offshore drilling, slowing it down with more complicated regulations, making it more expensive to produce the oil just at a time when the US is becoming ever more dependent on offshore deep wells. Some think no worries because the Middle East, specifically the Saudi production can pick up the slack which makes this article quite telling. Looks like the Saudi's are telling the US you will have to deal with your oil addiction, sooner than you thought, and don't expect us to bail you out since we have a future also to look out for.

http://www.saudigazette.com.sa/index.cfm?method=home.regcon&contentID=2010070377026

New oil fields saved for future generations

Saudi Arabia has stopped exploration missions of new oil fields to save the wealth and pass it on to future generations, King Abdullah......

Hotspringswizard said...

More superb thoughts from Bageant:

http://www.joebageant.com/joe/2010/07/waltzing.html

Waltzing at the Doomsday Ball

I'm passing this one on to everyone in my own list of people!

Burnie said...

Thanks for the post. What to do. The only thing, it seems, is what others have talked about...changing yourself.

Never was it more obvious, at least to this wooden head that thought it knew things only to find out it knew nothing. Being contrary for most of my life questioning authority was a daily exercise. But in reality I was unaware of the nature of what was really going on. You can spend time being outraged at one thing only to find there is a even bigger thing to be outraged about. It is like looking into a Mandlebrot set. You can be mad about the political bullshit only to find out there is nothing different between the choices here in Amerika. Then comes corporations, then comes something else, and something else again. It seems we are surrounded by a force that bodes ill, but it is hard to pinpoint accurately, you just know it is there.

Once I was helping the dynamiter at work lay out shots for a trench. When we did the shot one hole shotgunned, which means that some rock went flying up in the air. I was standing there looking at the rock, moving back and forth getting a fix on where it was going to land so it wouldn't hit me. That is how I feel right now.

What we do matters, it has energy, intent is powerful, we can do nothing on a grand scale but are we not drops of water that add up to an ocean.

The inner journey is all we have, and that affects our outer world, and I have to believe that we have purpose. The emotions I am experiencing are completely new territory. The immensity of our situation in total is staggering and my puny attempt to put it to words fails me.

Thanks for the post Murph, I read the Archdruid post last week. My observation would be similar, although I agree with some in comments that good does come from some, it just seems that they get corrupted in various ways and lose sight of their purpose.

How do you talk about population, and dealing with it? Since we haven't my feeling is that Mother Earth will spit us out either by our actions or whatever she decides, and as we all know you don't mess with Moms

Thanks to all who comment I always learn a lot from your thoughts and links and appreciate it.

Sorry to ramble, I think we are all trying to grok this, it is not easy to contemplate...much of what I think about is how to protect my family, the cold realization that I cannot is overwhelming.
Burnie

Anonymous said...

Since the subject of overpopulation has been brought up, can we discuss population control without talking about eugenics?

Doesn't managing quantities imply quality control?

Anyone here got a copy of the Report From Iron Mountain? Here's an article on Rense about it. Sounds like much of what these elite assholes have decided on has been implemented over the years.

http://www.rense.com/general91/case.htm

-rockpicker

Anonymous said...

Just had a 5.9 or so they're reporting for now. 4:53 P.M.
Just East of Escondido on the Coyote Creek Fault which is near the San Yscinto Fault. Wow...it was going for about 15 sec and then a hard jolt. Poor kitty he got scared and my heart is pumping!
Love you, mrs p

Check it out at www.momsreallymad.blogspot.com

Anonymous said...

Correction it was the San Jacinto Fault line. Spelling...oh dear here's an aftershock again...not too bad. Hope this fault doesn't have a larger one...it was downgraded to a 5.4. Oh now car alarms... This is California. Like it or not. mrs p

Anonymous said...

Would love to move to France or Italy or? mrs p

freeacre said...

Thinking of you, mrs.p Thanks for the updates. We hold you in our hearts.

Anonymous said...

Hey, Montana, they named a boat in your honor. Picture at rense.com

-rp

ps freeacre,

I ate sauerkraut on ham and beef sandwiches, with mustard and mayo and Swiss cheese all through the winter. Plus, pork chops are great fried in a skillet with kraut. Got an old kraut cutter for a birthday gift, and man, do those things make an easy job of chopping cabbage. If you can find one second hand, buy it, it's worth having around, especially in our cold northern climate.

Anonymous said...

Here's an interesting story about the Gulf. From:

http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/they-must-be-hiding-something-really-big_07052010

"crypta
July 8th, 2010 at 10:58 am

the dude pointed out….
”2) Work being done on something that has nothing to do with the clean-up efforts.”
I have entertained the possibility that this oil spill was created so that they would have an excuse to have such a high concentration of vessels
in one spot. so as to not raise suspicion… and that tehy are down there constructing some sort of deep sea base or complex. Look at how many
vessels on the scene have ROVs on them. This would stick out like a sore thumb if there were no oil spill and you know damn well other governments
around the globe that have sattelite capability would be wondering what was going on there. So it is possible that this crisis was created to
divert attention from this hypothetical construction project, and not some devious plan to destroy the planet . Meanwhile they pretend to be trying
to fix the leak while they quietly build some kind of facility down there just out of sight of the ROV cams they are showing us. I have an
interesting story I wanna share that supports this theory. Please read this. I am not making this up!!
I have worked offshore in the logistics side of the oil/gas industry in the GOM for about 10 years. Mostly on crewboats, which supply groceries,
fuel/water, crew change for the rigs and a multitude of other cargo… anyways….
I was on a old 110′ crewboat made by Swiftships. We got a spot job to go pick up some Navy personell at the marina there in Venice La. Which is
only maybe 300 yards north of where the company that I worked for is on Tiger Pass. I thought this was strange .. Why didnt they just come to the
yard and get on the boat there? but no, instead we had to go in this narrow channel and maneuver the boat around all these small recreational
fiberglass boats to pick up the passengers. … the water was very shallow in there too… it just didnt make sense to me when all they had to do
is come to where the boat was and board there… anyways….There were 5 or 6 people that got on our boat in street clothes. We were told before we
picked them up that they were Navy personnel. but no uniforms…. hmm rather odd…. We were to take them far offshore to either Mississippi Canyon
(which is where the rig sank) or Green Canyon. I cant remember the location but the water was several thousand feet deep where we brought them to.
It was about a 6 hour voyage out to this location. The passengers seemed to be enjoying themselves out riding on the bow basking in the sun… I
was chatting with some of them and this is where the story gets even more strange. One of the guys was an Admiral!!! we also had a captain of the
Navy on there too… I am not sure what rank the others were. 2 of them were women. they asked me to let them know about an hour before we arrived
on location… I did as instructed and they all changed into their uniforms an hour before we got there. An Admiral, Captain and entourage on a run
down crewboat??? let me back up a second… I started asking the Admiral (wish I could remember his name) questions about what the purpose of the
trip was. He said he was stationed at the oceanic and space installation they have in Mississippi called Stenis. Which also happens to be where
they test fire space shuttle engines. He told me that they were going to get on a sub and go look at bioluminous lifeforms at the bottom of the
Gulf. LOL Well then why the hell did they covertly board our boat when they have so many assets at their disposal? helicopters, boats… ?? I can
think of reasons why… one being they didnt want to be seen out there with military choppers or vessels. They wanted to keep it low key. (cont. next comment)

-rp

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

Sorry about the double post. It's this goofy site.

Here's the rest of the story.

"So anyway
we get on location and rendezvous with the Carolyn Choest. A big work boat… which was the support vessel for this sub they got on. Which happens
to be the worlds smallest nuclear sub… 100′ long with a 12′ beam is what they told me …. so around the same size as our boat but not as wide…
The support vessel was all Navy crew and looked jut like a traditional oilfield workboat with one diference that I could see… It had these 2
giant stove pipe shaped things mounted behind the pilothouse and they were painted battleship grey. and no they werent exhaust stacks I know the
difference lol besides they were capped on the ends not like a exhaust stack. I think they were probably communications device. So we stern up to
the support vessel and transfer our passengers over to the workboat. Then we were instructed to follow the work boat… We made way about 15 min
then we were told to keep 2 nautical mile CPA (closest point of approach) between us and the sub. A zodiak was launched and the party we brought
out were taken to the sub. We could hear the radio chatter until they got to the sub then I remember hearing a call sign and the words “switch
primary” after that we heard nothing. We were told to standby and wait for them to come back to the surface. after about two hours the sub surfaced
and we went back over to pick them up for return trip. some of the people we brought out didnt get back on the boat including both the women.and we
had a couple of people get on that we didnt bring out. one of them was probably a SEAL or other special forces guy… he looked like one… was
wearing black and had what looked to me like one of those black gun bags they have for a handgun with him… I asked him questions too … one was
how deep can that sub go and his reply “Well thats classified information but DEEP” I think the story about why they were going down there was a
complete lie! So your telling me that an ADMIRAL of the Navy is gonna ride on a crappy crewboat out to see pretty lights in the inky black abyss??
LOL ….. I think he may have been overseeing the final phases of a construction project or something… I dunno but I dont think it was because of
watching glow in the dark jellyfish. It was kinda cool being involved in all that. Sure broke the monotony of oilfield logistics. thanks for
reading my story sorry it was kinda long.
another thing I contemplated is could they be experimenting with some new drilling and recovery methods. Like instead of putting a production
facility there to harvest the oil, they just let it gush out of the sea floor at full force into a siphon device that is conected to a pipeline
that goes inland to a distribution facility. Thereby producing or harvesting much more oil than would have been possible with a traditional
production platform. If they could perfect such method, they could probably do it without spilling any oil. more likely though this new method will
just be a bi-product of this oilspill. whatever the reason, I still think it was done on purpose."

-rp

Anonymous said...

ok rockpicker, now ya went and done it, the bastards will be coming for your sauerkraut in the middle of the night you know.;) you been around dude,never told me about that part of your life.

they didn't git my iq right on the boat either..close though.

personally i'm with oldensoul, straight out of the jar, good
medicine for sure. good for the heart and mind.

langosta suggested this,i agree

http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1103550665321&s=6718&e=001YProA2sZDiIuoQv10Q_orF419rABg6dX2dF6ZtEtEMuAjh4gPBt-pfMNRdcejXZDr3xJRi8-KHL9EGhUen6Fj27ZyjIqmUL6efawEPf-0ZHopoK6KAdt-9RMaaNvoSic1x0kAoyTtLmgw3_ftDZZNq_LSrIqcf1cKT-q7-nSOsQLfn9xpbOpuw

gettin close fellow conspirators,
can ya feel the tension? the speeding up of everything? the sudden openings of something just outside view but.... the silent periods of absolute quite of mind, where all thought is still and things look like walt disney 3d plastic? and the body feels really electric and warm?
the date is July 17&18....
langosa says none of the stuff going on is of any value to us that are preparing for the change, ain't cha just thrilled at the prospect of realizing all our work is about to fruit, o yeah and fruit some more.?

any ideas for the 17th,18th?
ceremonies with body paint and
lighting, incense, great pagan time stuff ras,

time to pick sage again,the sage people are big and really strong this year as of the unusual rainfall, maybe freeacre could take your address for some if you wish, just send box with return address,
love and peace to all of you and
welcome to all the new ones that have joined in with the council, the talking stick is passed.
aho
mf&langosta

Anonymous said...

Hey, MF, thought you'd like that one.

Check out this link on Rense. WTF?

http://www.survivalistnews.com/2010/07/08/u-s-navy-evacuates-gulf/

and this one...

http://www.survivalistnews.com/2010/07/05/noaa-blacks-out-north-america-from-tsunami-warning-system/

Hotspringswizard said...

Here is an article that has a collection of thoughts on collapse highlighted by the articles author Robert Jensen. Many of these peoples thoughts are ones I'd bet most of us have mulled over ourselves in some form while trying to understand this quickly changing world we live in:

http://www.countercurrents.org/jensen080710.htm

Coping With Collapse Emotionally

Pawta said...

rp--

Excellent Rense article on the Report From Iron Mountain. However, "these elite assholes" you mention are merely guys like us thinking, planning and doing their part in conformance with the same old pattern we've all been a part of since day one... feeding, clothing, sheltering, entertaining, governing and protecting ourselves and growing our population to 7 billion plus ad infinitum.

Mike Ruppert has always been right on target about 'the problem': "Until you change the way money works, you change nothing." Too bad neither he nor enough of the rest of us seem willing and able to do what we need to about that. Mother Nature sure is, tho.

Zoner said...

mf, thank you for that link.

Facing the 4 directions has been part of my spontaneous "ceremony" that I practice for reasons unknown to me until now.

Knowing that it is an ancient tradition makes it all the more comforting as I allow intuition to guide rather than dogma or anything outside the experience itself.

"Winging it" has always been the way, and all I can say is that I am feeling it in a MAJOR way.

Like being at the apex of that first climp on the 'coaster.....

Wheeeee!

Z

Anonymous said...

good link rockpicker, never been to that place, it looks like the two-leggeds have actually decided to do the lemming cha cha. somehow that doesn't freak me our like it probably should if i was a good christian but i ain't.
o i forgot its off to heaven for the rapture clones,humm

anyway yeah thats a good one zoner and it really is funny how much contact with spirit we actually have without knowing it, the shield of protection that enfolds us to go through shit that should of made us dead is really a mystical thing to this one thats for sure, i don't know about the ones that seem not to be aware of it but then again i don't know about much of anything actually.\
there is one thing though, since more years then i can remember i have worn a symbol
drawn on my clothes that is crossed four directions with arrow tips on them and a circle in the middle, its meaning is native american and it means '' permanent home''
thats it.

so rockpicker what about the dispersant and bp saying fuckoff to the gov.? do they go around with dispersant proof underwear or what?

man i feel sorry for those brothers and sisters down there in the south,
ras, are you safe where you are at , p are you in an ok place too?
what a cluster fuck this is going on.
think i'll hope over to their blog sites and check it out.

hot springs wizard, checked out the link, good one, people are really lost but that will change i think when the actual shit hits the fan where they live, we are a tenacious bunch and over and over down through history the worse of times has brought out the best and worst of the two-leggeds but with no rule keepers around the worst will just disappear, we just got to remember to shoot or hang or what ever is convenient the bastard that start making rules. we are by nature a free and wild species by birth and just have to remember that and not fuck over the children with what we have been given, which is basically mental death from the time of being born.
anyway thats how it appears to me/
aho
mf

freeacre said...

Well, we unloaded the guns and removed the sharp implements and sat down and watched "The Road" last night. It was a really good representation of the book. The devastating scenario of complete collapse, not only of the country, but the entire eco-system could only be due to something on the order of a coronal mass ejection, a pole shift or maybe an EMP pulse that took down the grid and maybe volcanoes that brought on nuclear winter.
The only thing to do in that situation is bug out for warmer climes, like they did. It was an inspiring love story, actually, of paternal love for a child. I thought it was great.
Many predictions now from Half Past Human and others for really big events jumping off between the 11th of this month and culminating in some major thing (like war) in November. Once again, earthquakes seem to be happening when solar ejections hit the earth. More coming in the next few days (keep an eye on spaceweather.com). The big bug out of the navy to Costa Rica, of all places, seems really ominous for sure. There's even a prediction on Above Top Secret of space aliens disclosing themselves this weekend to all the people on earth. Ha! I'd love to see THAT one! All seems to be part of the "rising tensions" that HPH says is foretold in the linguistics. All this is feeling to me like a massive case of PMS. Wish it would just start and get it over with.
Personally, though, I find myself feeling more peaceful and accepting. Planting flowers. Taking it day by day. I am so grateful that we have this wonderful cyber community of people who share our thoughts and hearts with each other.
Oh, yeah... I thought of another recipe I know for sauerkraut: add brown sugar and caraway seeds to it, slave it over a pork roast and bake it. My family used to eat it at midnight on New Years Eve for luck. Yum. I'm not eating pork anymore, but maybe I'll put it over a hunk of tofu and bake it. Probably be good... also, Reuben sandwiches with corned beef, kraut, and Swiss Cheese melted on rye.
Just picked our first spinach, which is beautiful. Going to mix it with feta cheese, garlic, leaks, and panka crumbs and olive oil to make a filling for portabella mushrooms. That ought to be good.
Love you guys.

Dublin Mick said...

http://dublinmick.wordpress.com/2010/07/10/red-tar-in-the-gulf-from-asphalt-volcano-beneficial-to-sea-life/

RAS said...

MF, we're 300+ miles from the GOM, so we're safe for the moment.

HSW -I'm not surprised the Saudis have decided to hold onto some of their oil. Their population is so far beyond sustainable levels it's either that or face the inevitable.

We're buying some land! :) They accepted the offer and we close in a couple of weeks!

mrs p said...

"Just picked our first spinach, which is beautiful. Going to mix it with feta cheese, garlic, leaks, and panka crumbs and olive oil to make a filling for portabella mushrooms. That ought to be good." --Yummy! Sounds like "Gourmet" to me!

mrs p said...

And to RAZ Congrats on the land!
We're hoping to do that someday!

mrs p said...

oops sorry we meant RAS!
What a great feeling of getting some land of your own! Good Luck with everything!

mrs p said...

FA & Murph:
Your recipes sound soooo good...you should be freezing that? and selling it at the local market or opening up a resturant!
Freeacres Fine Organic Gourmet Foods!

Anonymous said...

Glad to hear ras, also how much land case the tribe needs to go south;)?
listen up guys, if you haven't watched the Abyss with Ed Harris and super chick Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio you should grab a copy, its an older film but man is it right up to date. The award winning special effects are still just awesome to watch. and hell, the triggers come in waves, excellent film.
watched the Road a while back and it was a heart jerker for sure.
lets see o yeah, a friend sent me a link called
www.tinytexashouses.com/

its very sweet and might really be just the thing for you ras.
these guys take big old houses tear them down and make up to three little ones out of them, check the site they are really beautiful, it goes on to say that texas was once covered with trees, (big ones) but the settlers cut them all down and either sold them or built houses and other stuff out of them, anyway some of those trees were like 300 years old and the tree rings were so close that they are still in as good a shape as they were when they were cut!!
just take a look you will be impressed with small and beautiful.
am looking into it here in montana, you might be interested in it to rockpicker, there are a lot of old houses in montana with the same qualities, these guys are using like 90% recycled material and its superior by far then the crap they build houses out of today.

anyway its cooler today with a little cloud cover, yesterday was a hot son of a bitch with 115 degrees in my bus.

freeacre whens lunch?

aho
mf

ps never mind the name of the submarine in the movie. shit you talk about synchronicity and rockpicker started it. ;)

WV fandlity
is that a little fan?

Bill Herbst said...

free:

As you know, I haven't been able to email you and Murph for about a year now. For reasons unknown, all my emails come back from the mailer-daemon as "undeliverable" to your address. Don't know if that's some bizarre conspiracy or (more likely) a weird cyber-glitch between your server and mine.

I just sent you another email in response to your concern about the "missing" July newsletter. Actually, the newsletter is up, but the home page somehow failed to be updated when I uploaded everything else on July 5th.

Now it's all current.

If my email gets through to you, please reply and I'll put you back on the subscriber list. If you don't get it, please email me your phone number so we have a way of connecting.

--Bill

Charles Hugh Smith said...

Murph, I would propose another model for a "mass movement" which is leaderless. Two examples: a remote town in Alaska loses its electrical generator and the temporary system jacks up costs 4-fold. Electricity consumption drops by 2/3 without any intervention, leaders, regulations, etc. People just figure out how to cut their consumption by 2/3 behaviorally.

Example 2: I predict that the stock market will globally lose its luster in thenext decade. Websites will no longer past the DJI and global Dow because the very sight of those numbers disgusts users. Wall Street will shrink because either 1) everyone lost their money believing in the "market" and all the lies or 2) they withdrew their money and put it in solar panels, credit unions or informal networks of funders/borrowers.

neither is a "mass movement" yet each involves a majority of the populace. neither requires leaders or changing the status quo. "When you want to change the world, change yourself (and your household behaviors). Those don't answer all issues be they do show ho much can be accomplished when 60% of the people suddenly grok what the 4% Remnant have been doing.

murph said...

Charles,

I'm not sure why you would exclude your examples as mass movements. I would sure consider them as such, just without leaders. I think your assumption is that mass movements have to have leaders showing the way. In a way, isn't that what the "remnants" do? It's just without a hierarchy or line of command.

freeacre said...

...lol, Charles. I just remembered an example of changed consciousness. I met a new person who was telling me about her children. One was getting his Ph.D in chemistry, working for a pharmaceutical company, and the other has just gotten his own Edward Jones office. I was trying to be nice, but I said, "Gee, I hope they have a Plan B..." I mean, Big Pharma and Finance?? Please.. She, packed up her stuff and got the hell out of here as fast has she could. Oh well.

freeacre said...

You're too kind, mrs.p. It is one of my fantasies to have a restaurant. I'd like to start a cheese factory and restaurant with my son and call it "Say Cheese!" But, my son isn't here and my health isn't good enough. Rats. Plus, opening a restaurant as we enter the brink of disaster is probably not especially good timing. Maybe in my next life...

Anonymous said...

" I mean, Big Pharma and Finance?? Please.. She, packed up her stuff and got the hell out of here as fast has she could. Oh well.
its two am something and i'm cracking up, thanks for that freeacre, this day is gonna be a good one for sure on that note, i can just see the lady all bristled up with her ego dragging behind her on her way out the door.
i mean what a feather in her cap, her sons at the apex of societies creation and a small prick in that ballon and it all turns to dust. man i'm still cracking up. i love it.
i mean thats a big problem, our self image is something that people just have to find out about and realize the consequences of not having done it.
remember the term or is it even still used? egomaniac ?
haven't heard that term in years i guess.
anyway thanks for that,
have good day everyone.
aho
mf

WV SNESSE .gesundheit?

RAS said...

Lol, fa, that's too funny!

The land we're getting -believe it or not, it's 10 acres. It's a couple of hours from here in rural Tennessee, where land is quite cheap. It's just outside a little village and only a couple of miles from the oldest still functioning hippy farm in the country. There's all kinds of really cool people nearby. I think it's going to be a great fit. I'll send anyone who wants them pics and details!

freeacre said...

That is so cool, ras! Is that hippy farm in Tennessee The Farm by any chance? The one started by Stephen and Ina May Gaskin??? I visited The Farm in 1976 and it changed my life. Boy, those would be some great neighbors to have. I sure hope it works out well for you!
Here's a great presentation on understanding that our money is created from debt and we are all in bondage to the banks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVkFb26u9g8
Also, Clif High has an update on Half Past Human that clarifies the significance of today 7/11 in regards to building up to something intense in November. See the chart.
I'm so happy you're back, mf.

murph said...

Ras,

OMG, close to the original Gaskin farm? Back in the day, several times I was seriously thinking of going there, just never made it. That should be a really cool experience being in that neighborhood.

Anonymous said...

MF... thx for askin brother. yup, place okay. but been slammed here between work projects along with heightened committment to our developing heartwood community up the road a piece. in between i get a breather and draw comfort from the campfire. just long enough to check in but not long enough to comment as usual. same-o applies to my blog. thx for the note.


FA.... All this is feeling to me like a massive case of PMS. damn girl, now i know! i've always wonder what that felt like!! :-)

RAS... congrats girl. check out albert bates place at the farm after you get settled in.

ALL... keep the dry side up.

wv... prepe. NOT!!!

...p

2nd wv... codyst. is that another one of BP's dispersants?

freeacre said...

Yea, p!! So good to hear from you, too! You and Montana and Bill, ras, Zoner, Randy, Rockpicker,Charles, mrs.p ...I'll sleep easier tonight. Now, where's Stoney? And, to our newer tribe- Hot Springs, Pawta,Lucretia, Dublin Mick, Nina,et al - my mind holds all of you each night as I go to sleep.
...and I did write the PMS reference for you, p. lol !!

Anonymous said...

Stephen and Ina May Gaskin???
holy crap is that the same steven gaskin that led the bus caravan out of san francisco back in,? hell i can't remember the year 70 something, almost went too, i remember the line of school buses in every psychedelic acid color imaginable and then some streaming east.
knew they went somewhere down south, far out man.
good to hear from ya p,,hoped you were still here,miss your take on denial, i'm right behind you on that one.
the unseen role, mention this to people and they just go into some kind of mental trance and think your nuts.
o well, gotta do what cha gotta do i guess.
not everyone has the whatever it takes to even consider it.
the programing is just to strong for a breakthrough.
p your a builder did you happen to check out this in texas?

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=tiny+texas+houses&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

it seems really cool but labor intensive, something for the young or the young at heart in sustainable living, wish i was 20 years younger i would hop right on this.
hell i might do it anyway, the coming days are going to find a lot of young people with nothing to do with their energy but still need shelter for that new honey on their arm. ;)
those houses built from recycled lumber,windows and hardware cheap from older houses are amazing, all it takes is some imagination and willing to learn to use a hammer.
you know the lean days ahead don't have to be filled with doom and gloom, i can see this as a grand opportunity to just let go the fucking past and latch onto a new dream and get the fuck into it, whining ain't gonna go anyplace but... well we know where that goes , nowhere.
the spirit i see here at this sacred meeting of like brothers and sisters is just a taste of what is taking place all around the world, the old is history and the new world that is in process will not be denied, the truth looks at darkness and spits it out like a fucking watermelon seed and thats an energy to deal with i can tell ya that for sure.
at this moment i have a bunch of young folks setting on my front porch talking over and digesting what may be accomplished with the enthusiasm that only comes with the young? it makes an old fucks heart thump with gratitude to see it happing.
the now and the imagined future belongs to them and i am so thankful to be surrounded by the awaking hearts they bear witness too.

us that have been around the sun more times then probably necessary will be asked to show the young'uns a thing or two in just plain old how to live without wallyworld having been raised so close to scarcity, and an age that if you didn't build it yourself or fix it yourself it didn't get done.
necessity really is the mother of invention, and need has a way of opening the mind that no book can match thats for sure.
anyway thats enough words from this old gizzard/ the stick is passed.
love and peace tribe.
aho
mf

Anonymous said...

I've come up with a solution, (literally,) for slugs. Into a spray bottle I put a whole bunch of table salt, vinegar, a hot pepper and water. Proportions are fluid, but I found, through experimenting, that heavy on the salt and vinegar works best. Chop pepper up fine and heat in skillet to release 'picante.'
Soak in water, preferably in sunlight, strain and drain water into spray. The slugs really don't like this. And the don't move much after a couple minutes exposure.

-rockpicker

-wv warcons

Hotspringswizard said...

Freeacre, I appreciate your caring sentiments about holding all of us in your thoughts. You have a kind and generous heart :-) I have sent you before the leaves from the sage in our front yard for you to use in your incense ceremonies. This same plant put up lots of blooms this year. They have a strong sage smell, being full of the sage sap. I am going to collect them and I was wondering if you might be able to use them for incense too. If so I can send them to you in a package by mail like before. Just let me know if you could use them. If not I'll just put them in a bowl in my room for their sweet fragrance :-)

Regarding the GOM Gusher, BP has remove the large flange that bolted the broken riser end to the BOP, which provide them with a situation where they absolutely could attached and secure with the large bolts another BOP or shut off valve.

But from what I can see by the news reports they are putting in place devices, not for the purpose of shutting off the flow of oil, but meant for the purpose of " just " directing more of it to the surface.

So I think this makes very clear that they will not attach something to shut off the flow, which would completely stop the gushing because they can't, as there are either known or expected problems with BOP or well pipe integrity. This is also illustrated by the talk of this process allowing them to collecting or as they say " contain " higher pecentages of the gushing oil.

I also notice that Anderson Cooper of CNN is now in Haiti. He has had the one MSM news segment that has consistently been doing a pretty good job of keeping up with and reporting on the new developments with this ongoing crisis. Is pulling him from the gulf area another part of the apparent ramping up of measures to conceal whats really going on out there?

Pawta said...

Freeacre, You're such a sweetheart; you and Murph give each other a hug for us would ya please. And all the rest of you Trout Clanners give each other cyber hugs from us too, ok?

Peace and wisdom to all.

Anonymous said...

p your a builder did you happen to check out this in texas?

MF... i sure did and i like what their doing. ironically i'm doing a huge 1500' deck plus 220' shower/dressing rooms section at the community center w/reclaimed material. we ain't talkin stock from old houses built with components milled from virgin trees by any means like the little house folx. this stuff is usually only 15-20 years old. since the new-home market crashed we do a lot of what's called re-cover/re-rail for home owners where we jerk off the old decking and rails and replace anew. instead of hauling it to the landfill we're cleaning it up for re-use on pro bono projects. and ya, its labor intensive but amazing what can happen with it if you take the time to jump through certain hoops. fortunately we get enough of these that were originally done w/2x6 decking instead of 5/4. i used that for the frame bones by designing beam and underpost spans accordingly. gotta put em a whole lot closer together. and especially in this case where it could have 150 people rockin 'n rollin on it. this thing's got something in the neighborhood of 45underposts supporting it. and fortunatley we get enough reconfigure work to supply for the beam and post stock. every stick of wood in this baby is from re-claimed components. even the whopper arched arbor over the shower/dressing rooms. the only thing new is the nails, screws, concrete for the piers, and the coating. again, fortunately, there's a new composite deck coating called UDF-21. it's a zero-VOC's, polymer coating created here in atlanta to refurbish wood deck surfaces ragged out by years of exposure to UV's and the elements. the very reason we're doing the re-cover/re-rail. but its so new alot of the market is still paranoid. not me. i've done some experiments with it and its amazing! i'm gonna coat the whole thing with this stuff. check out the photo gallery on it...

http://www.gulfsynthetics.com/polymer-coatings/udf-21

i'll send FA a link to a photo gallery of the project when i get er done. that'll be awhile in coming because i'm doing a 2 tier herb and veggie planter on the radius perimeter in liew of handrails once the flatwork is done.

and i'll tell ya what ole wise one, yer dead right about latchin onto that dream and gettin the fuck into it. this project and the whole increased committment to heartwood in general has sure re-energized this ole man. so i encourage you to hop to it. if it can re-new us old coggers in the process of re-newing the old it can fire up the young bucks too. there's still no better substitute for inspiration than example. talk walks.

apperciate your good words my friend. and that link. and especially on the bit about the role denial is playing. when we look at it in the context that everything is energy interacting and then, in that context, apply one of the fundamentals upon which U operates... that is, denial creates experiences equal to or greater than the denial so the denial may be cleared out... well, then it starts to make some sense why bad, fucked up, heartbreaking things happen to good people. it ain't pretty but at least it starts to make some sense as to why.

sure is an honor to have you as a friend, co-conspiritor, and fellow ole gizzard MF. i pass the stick back. or on to the next taker... p

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Anonymous said...

sorry folx. ther damn thing kept saying it wouldn't publish due to "unsaved changes". murphinators... can you delete at least 3 of those... p

Hotspringswizard said...

P, You might try re-opening the Trout Clan link to check for your comment next time it appears that your post has not been published to see if it actually has been added.

Anonymous said...

hey i was doing the same thing p and it was getting put on but didn't seem like it, thanks wizard.


thanks for the comeback p, man the light is seriously shining and ideas and insights are coming on like popcorn popping. thanks in degree to rockpickers excellent pointers and links.
wish i was closer so i could see your work, the polymer coating seems to be just the thing for decks, i painted my deck last summer with a really ''good'' deck paint, well i'm painting it again this summer, the ''polymatr'' seems good to, the concept is cool the making the paint molecules become ''one''
molecule so to speak.
also the water base is excellent, i see the guys applying with no masks and water clean up.sweet.
i don't know p with the shit i've done in my life i might hold up on the word wise, more like are ''you nuts?'' most people make pretty pictures with their right hemispheres,i swing from trees and jump with no parachute,sigh....
however ya can't say it ain't been interesting and the new awareness dawning is really gonna be a fun assed ride for sure with all judgements left up to the judges. schools out.!
at least that kind of school.

hey wizard, a question, do you know where Ono and Igo are? if you do i had a sixty acre place just west of there back in 84-87 and grew outrageous quantities of marijuana, the hundred degree plus summers made plants that were treelike in nature, god it was hot in them ther hills. would jump on my atv and in forty five minutes would be up in the higher hills kicking back with a big blunt and my feet dangling in the cool creek that came down from the top somewhere.
course there seems to be some strange assed karma in breaking the laws for some of us/
peace to all
aho
mf

ps, say sats how did the house moving thing work out and how is Chris making it these days,
i think of those hard times occasionally and the delight that she made it ok. :)

Anonymous said...

Just started reading this, sounds like something to share.

http://www.rense.com/general91/bos.htm

Gotta go now...

-rp

Hotspringswizard said...

MF, I don't know anyone named Ono or Igo. Are you talking about where I live in the high desert of So Cal, Apple Valley, or the Deep Creek Hot Springs area perhaps?

Anonymous said...

Wizard, its not a who its a what, ;), they are little tiny places west of sacramento up in the rolling hills about 20 to 30 miles out,
aren't you in the shasta county?
aho
mf

Hotspringswizard said...

MF, My family and I live in Apple Valley, which is in the high desert area of So Cal. We own 20 acres up in Northern Cal within a few miles of the eastern end of the Pit River arm of Lake Shasta, where the lake turns into the Pit River. That area may be Shasta County. My brother lives up there with his family a couple of miles down the road from our property. We may move up to that northern cal property at some point. I've never been to Ono or Igo. Just down the hill from our property there is a little place called Ingot on HWY 299. Cow Creek runs through the area which is a very scenic stream and a great spot for swimming and recreating in the warmer months :-)

Anonymous said...

soooooo the pipe is plugged? a friend of mine is headed to florida the first week of august even after knowing that the government are a bunch of lying mother fuckers, man that would be the last place on this once lovely planet i'd go,
actually i been to florida twice, drove all the way there from washington state just to go scuba diving, it was great.
now? if the whole state washed away it would be of little interest to me. the bitches that live there have the same amount of interest in life while turning it in to a gamorrean episode of star wars,building high-rises and condos for the old rich fucks stumbling into town like zombies from a b grade movie eating little creatures and sucking blood from the slower ones when they catch them.
the great swamps wonce filled with living withering snapping loving life forms now relegated to eternities dust bowls of sand and tar slicks.
o alligators, where forth art thou ? it behooves this one to circle the dismembered cranial as if it contained a potion of possible consequences other then stark raving suicide and blue blood dripping from the well manicured fangs of antiquity,
we see you baby raping and killing the sons and daughters of the blind, they care not because the cold six pack awaits, but heed this, do not give a stick with no carrot because there will be hell to pay however not for you but for the family members that misbehave/ as in you smoked the last of daddies crack you little ingrate?

yes the place where old reptiles go to sit on their last hot rock, drink umbrella flavored arsenic and talk about the good old days when stealing was a time honored profession and the sheep were blessed with our presence and gloried in the crumbs that fell from our withered hands.
the sun is setting my friends and the angles with their trumpets are lining up to rapture the stagnation and sweep those with scales on their tails into the arms of jesus and his gang of baby rapers.
it is a good day to die said the old one and if this don't get us a new post i don't know what will.
with love and gratitude i slither out the outhouse door and on down the trail to hook up with tinkerbell of whom i've wanted to fuck ever since i was seven or thereabouts.
ravings of a lunatic and friendly to little furry things.
mf

wv bressely huh?

Dublin Mick said...

http://www.examiner.com/x-10438-Human-Rights-Examiner~y2010m7d31-Exclusive-Censored-Gulf-news-Coughing-up-blood-Eyewitnesses-horror-stories

Coughing up blood is among horrors that eyewitnesses are reporting in south Louisiana where BP medics diagnose the sudden widespread, burning, itching skin, lesions and marks as "scabies" or staph and government health focus on "stress" and mental condition of millions of people poisoned with what scientists report is 11 times more lethal than crude oil toxins now in Gulf and coastal water and air. Americans are still encouraged to eat Gulf seafood.

On July 29 Global Justice Radio Blog Talk Radio program hosted by Rev. T.K. (Kathryn) O'Shannahan-Hyland and Vin Beazel called "Agent Orange Alert," listeners heard eyewitness and personal accounts of internal bleeding from orifices including coughing up blood and nose bleeds.

There was a call-in from a woman stranded and ill with rashes on her body. She was calling for help.
Callers dscribed leg-swelling among other effects since the oil explosion and lethal dispersant spraying operation.

russell1200 said...

In general, revolutions are successful when one the ruling elites joins common cause with the masses/peasants: LOL.

The Tea Party is not done yet. But I have always thought it was a bit manipulated by FOX news as a sort of odd public outreach program. There are enough Tea Partiers to tip the scales, but I haven't seen any (even on the conservative side) of the current power structure/elites interested in taking up the cause.

But with likely further cuts in government programs that normal people (versus Wall Street types) like, that could very well change. It is just a matter of thinking which group with actual power that is not in the current Wall Street-Washington power loop would be likely to be put out.

I always recommend this book:

Jack Goldstone's Revolution and Rebellion in Early Modern World. It is very odd how many similarities we have today with late 1600s England.

http://www.amazon.com/Revolution-Rebellion-Early-Modern-World/dp/0520082672