Sunday, December 19, 2010

State Crimes Against Democracy - The Evolution of Conspiracy Theory

Picture taken by Hot Springs Wizard - seems to exemplify "fragile connections" to me.

Many thanks to our dear Spirit Across the Sea (AKA from Belgium) for this new posting..
from Belgium

Document Provenance:
This is a précis of a paper by Lance deHaven-Smith which first appeared in the February 2010 edition of American Behavioural Science and was reproduced in WikiSpooks December 2010. Owing to length restrictions this present offering has been reduced to about 20% of the original which has necessitated many omissions. For those interested in reading the original it can be found here:

This post seamlessly interweaves sections of the above article with personal comment.

NOTE: the terms Elite or Political Elites refers to those at the highest level of governance and the military and not to the highest strata of international bankers sometimes called TPTB.

The Problem with Conspiracy Theory

When major political events take place in which the involvement of high governance is suspected, such as 9/11; Watergate or the JFK assassination, then each event attracts its followers and researchers which try to analyse all available information but they limit their inquiry to that specific event.
Until recently, social scientists have focused, on graft, bribery, embezzlement, and other forms of government corruption where the aim is personal enrichment rather than social control, partisan advantage, or political power. Conspiracy theory, since the 1960s, has been associated with paranoia and harebrained speculation. Considered as a label, the phrase conspiracy theory does a poor job of characterizing speculations about political intrigue, yet the label remains popular because it functions normatively to protect political elites from mass doubts about their motives and tactics Although not immediately apparent, this function becomes evident when the label’s surface meaning is compared to its meaning in use. On the surface, the term conspiracy theory refers to a suspicion that some troubling event was the result of a secret plot, but the term’s usage implies something else.

Not every theory that alleges a secret plot qualifies as a conspiracy theory in the common sense of the term. The official account of 9/11 claims that the Twin Towers were brought down by a team of Muslims who conspired to highjack planes and fly them into buildings. The theory posits a conspiracy, but the theory is not what most people would call a “conspiracy theory.” Conspiracy theories of 9/11 claim more than that the attacks were secretly planned and executed by an organized team. Most conspiracy theories of 9/11 allege that the U.S. government itself carried out the attacks or that officials knew the attacks were coming and allowed them to succeed. Thus, the conspiracy theory label, as it is applied in public discourse, does not disparage conspiratorial thinking or analysis in general, even though this is what the term suggests. Rather, the broad-brush “conspiracy theory” disparages inquiry and questioning that challenge official accounts of troubling political events in which public officials themselves may have had a hand. Deployed in public discourse to discredit and silence those who express suspicions of elite criminality, the label functions, rhetorically, to shield political elites from public interrogation. Moreover, there is often dissatisfaction when public opinion is attempted to be assuaged by an official enquiry since sometimes members of the enquiry are seen to be compromised. For instance, The Warren Commission which investigated the JFK assassination was appointed by Lyndon Johnson who was one of the main beneficiaries. Allan Dulles, a former CIA Chief who was sacked by JFK and was a political enemy, sat on the enquiry. More or less the entire 9/11 enquiry was manned by Bush cronies or at least players who were not unsympathetic to Bush’s motives.

Conspiracy theorists have contributed to this disjunctive dispute because they have focused on each suspicious event in isolation. Amateur investigators have developed a large popular literature on the assassination of President Kennedy and a number of other political crimes in which state complicity is suspected or alleged. The research has discredited official accounts of many incidents, thus casting suspicion on the government. But such ad hoc research has failed to actually solve the crimes under analysis or even to identify the agencies and officials most likely to have been the perpetrators.
Clearly a new approach to assessing such events is necessary.

State Crimes Against Democracy (SCADs)

By delineating a specific form of political criminality, the SCAD concept allows inquiry to move beyond incident-specific theories of government plots and to examine, instead, the general phenomenon of elite political criminality. Similar to research on white-collar crime, domestic violence, serial murder, and other crime categories, SCAD research seeks to identify patterns in SCAD victims, tactics, timing, those who benefit, and other SCAD characteristics. These patterns offer clues about the motives, institutional location, skills, and resources of SCAD perpetrators. In turn, as SCAD research brings SCAD perpetrators into focus, it provides a basis for understanding and mitigating the criminogenic circumstances in which SCADs arise.

For research purposes, the universe of SCADs must include not only those that have been officially investigated and confirmed but also suspected SCADs corroborated by evidence that is credible but unofficial. Although including the latter brings some risk of error, excluding them would mean accepting the judgment of individuals and institutions whose rectitude and culpability are at issue. Public officials are usually quite reluctant to allow independent investigations into questions about their own actions or those of their close associates. For over a year after 9/11, the Bush–Cheney administration resisted and dodged demands for a 9/11 Commission before finally acceding to pressures from the victims’ families, at which point the administration gave the commission a very small budget and placed it under unrealistic deadlines.

Conflicts of interest also plague agencies that are typically charged with assisting investigations into suspected SCADs. Such agencies usually bear some blame or have some connection to the events in question. Hence, personnel in these agencies are inevitably tempted to conceal evidence that would implicate or embarrass the agencies or their top managers. Both the FBI and the CIA concealed evidence of their contacts with Lee Harvey Oswald and Jack Ruby. Likewise, the Department of Defence appears to have withheld from the 9/11 Commission evidence that military intelligence agents had uncovered the 9/11 hijackers’ activities well in advance of September 2001.

Now we are considering such activities as a criminal class instead of a group of isolated incidents, let us look at a number of major events which have occurred in recent history and see what conclusions can be drawn.

[editorial note: the graph didn't transfer to blogspot properly, so I made some changes to facilitate reading - apologies if I have mangled it, Belgium]


Event: McCarthayism Fabricating evidence of Soviet infiltration
Years: 1950-1955
False Info re Defence Purge of leftists from government and business
Political opportunism

Assassination of JFK LBJ’s escalation of Vietnam War
1963 Control of war policy
Assassination CIA/ FBI/ SS
Possibly LBJ RN

Assassination of Lee Harvey Oswald Connection between CIA & Oswald concealed Medium
1963 Trial Avoided
Assassination Conceal Crime

Gulf of Tonkin Incident
Escalation of Vietnam conflict
Planned International Event Control War Policy

Assassination of Robert Kennedy
Election of Nixon stop JFK investigation Escalate Vietnam War
1968 Control War Policy

Burglary of Office Daniel Elsberg‘s Psychiatrist
Discredit Elsberg Control War policy
Richard Nixon CIA Burglary

Attempted Assassination of George Wallace
Wallace taken out of 1972 election, Nixon Re elected
Political Opportunism Assassination

Watergate Break in
Re Election of Nixon
RN CIA Political Opportunism Burglary

Attempted Assassination Ronald Reagan
VP WH Bush’s position strengthened
1981 Control War Policy Assassination

Iran Contra Hostage release
/Civil war Nicaragua
1984 – 1986 Pres Reagan VP Bush CIA Military
False info re Defence Control War Policy

Disputed 2000 Election
Legally mandated recount blocked by US Supreme Court
Election Tampering Political Opportunism

9/11 2001 Terrorist Attacks
Bush popularity up Defence spending up Invasion of Afghanistan leading to invasion of Iraq
Planned International Event

Attempted Assassinations of Senators Daschle & Leahy 2001 by Anthrax spores If successful would have given Republicans control of Senate Medium
Assassination Control War policy

Assassination of Senator Wellstone
Republicans regain Senate
Assassination Control War Policy

Iraq-gate US gains control of Iraq oil
Iran surrounded other Mid East nations intimidated Control War policy
False info re Defence

Disputed election
Result Bush wins Ohio and US Presidency
Election Tampering Political Opportunism

In the list of SCADs above, several patterns stand out. First, many SCADs are associated with foreign policy and international conflict. Such SCADs include the Gulf of Tonkin incident, the burglary of Daniel Ellsberg’s psychiatrist’s office, Iran-Contra, 9/11, Iraq-gate, the assassinations of John Kennedy and Robert Kennedy, and the attempted assassinations of Patrick Leahy and Tom Daschle. All of these SCADs contributed to the initiation or continuation of military conflicts.

Second, SCADs are fairly limited in their modus operandi (MO). The most common SCAD MOs are assassinations (six) and mass deceptions related to foreign policy (three). Other MOs include election tampering (two), planned international conflict events (two), and burglaries (two). With the possible exception of election tampering, all of these MOs are indicative of groups with expertise in the skills of espionage and covert, paramilitary operations.

Third, many SCADs in the post-WWII era indicate direct and nested connections to two presidents: Richard Nixon and George W. Bush. Not only was Nixon responsible for Watergate and the illegal surveillance of Daniel Ellsberg, he also alone benefited from all three of the suspicious attacks on political candidates in the 1960s and 1970s: the assassinations of John Kennedy and Bobby Kennedy and the attempted assassination of George Wallace. If JFK and RFK had not been killed, Nixon would not have been elected president in 1968, and if Wallace had not been shot, Nixon would probably not have been re-elected in 1972. The SCADs that benefited Bush include the election-administration problems in 2000, the defence failures on 9/11, the (U.S. defence grade) anthrax attacks on top Senate Democrats in October 2001, Iraqgate, and the multiple and specious terror alerts that rallied support for Bush before the 2004 presidential election.

Since assassinations form the largest category of MO’s let us consider these as typical in order to see the benefit that the SCAD analysis brings over conventional conspiracy theory.

Several patterns contradict the conclusion from official inquiries that political assassinations in the United States have been random, with no connections to one another and no involvement of political elites. First, the range of officials targeted for assassination is limited to those most directly associated with foreign policy: presidents and senators. Most other high-ranking officials in the federal government have seldom been murdered, even though many have attracted widespread hostility and opposition. No vice presidents have been assassinated, nor have any members of the U.S. House of Representatives or the U.S. Supreme Court. If lone gunmen have been roaming the country in search of political victims, it is difficult to understand why they have not struck more widely, especially given that most officials receive no Secret Service protection. Why did no assassins go after Joe McCarthy when he became notorious for his accusations about communists, or Earle Warren after the Supreme Court’s decisions requiring school desegregation, or Spiro Agnew after he attacked the motives of antiwar protestors, or Janet Reno after she authorized the FBI’s raid on the Branch Davidians in Waco?

A second pattern has to do with the particular presidents and senators who have been targeted for elimination, as opposed to the many who have not. Presidents and senators have been targeted only when their elimination would benefit military and pro-war interests. Because a president who is killed or dies in office is automatically succeeded by the vice president, a presidential assassination would benefit military interests only if the vice president’s background or policy positions were dramatically better for the military than the president’s. This situation has existed only twice since 1960—during the presidencies of John F. Kennedy and Ronald Reagan. Unlike Kennedy, who was trying to end the cold war, Lyndon Johnson was a well-known hawk and pentagon supporter. Similarly, although Reagan and George H. W. Bush had similar positions on the cold war, Bush’s background as former director of the CIA gave him much closer ties than Reagan to the military establishment. This type of analysis could benefit potential Presidents in their choice of Vice Presidents and could have influenced GH Bush in his own choice of VP.

These patterns in assassinations, as well as the patterns across SCADs in general, point to likely suspects and criminogenic circumstances. SCADs frequently involve presidents as either victims or principals, benefit military and military-industrial elites, and employ the skills of intelligence and paramilitary operatives. Conditions conducive to SCADs include periods of warfare or heightened international tensions, administrations with prowar vice presidents, and Senates closely divided along partisan lines. SCADs often appear where presidential politics and foreign policy intersect. This policy locus could mean that the nation’s civilian leadership is being targeted by military and intelligence elites or that military and intelligence assets and capabilities are being politicized by the civilian leadership, or both.

Although I have concentrated on assassinations which are the largest group, similar type of conclusions can be drawn for other SCAD MO’s.

The first step toward SCAD detection and prevention is facing up to the nature and magnitude of the threat. Recently, many mainstream scholars and journalists have concluded that American democracy is becoming increasingly corporatist, imperialistic, and undemocratic. However, mainstream authors have seldom considered the possibility that authoritarian tendencies in American politics are being systemically engineered by top-ranking civilian and military officials. Rather than thinking in terms of high crimes, their diagnoses have blamed abstract institutional weaknesses or isolated failures of leadership.

In contrast, the upshot of the foregoing analysis is that SCADs are surface indications of a deeper, invisible level of politics in which officials at the highest levels of government use deception, conspiracy, and violence to shape national policies and priorities. This sub-rosa manipulation of domestic politics is an extension of America’s duplicity in foreign affairs and draws on the nation’s well-developed skills in covert operations. Through its experience with covert actions, the National Security Apparatus has developed a wide range of skills and tactics for subverting and overthrowing regimes, manipulating international tensions, and disrupting ideological movements. The United States, or more specifically presidential administrations, uses these skills in combination with visible foreign policies to maximize the impact of both the visible and invisible sides of their efforts.

U.S. capabilities for covert operations enter the nation’s domestic politics as SCADs in at least two ways. Sometimes, the process is rather haphazard. In Watergate, for example, the Nixon administration was using covert-action skills domestically in legitimate matters of national security when it diverted these skills, first, to attack Daniel Ellsberg and perhaps other political enemies and, subsequently, to gain advantage in the 1972 presidential election. Generalizing from this example, covert-action capabilities can end up being exploited for SCADs because the officials who control these capabilities are operating in an intensely political environment, and they occasionally succumb to temptations to use their national security powers for personal or partisan advantage. The idea that SCADs are opportunistic gambits in presidential politics was the conclusion reached in the official investigations of both Watergate and Iran-Contra.

On the other hand, several SCADs for which evidence of government involvement is unofficial but nevertheless credible point to elaborate planning by enduring networks of strategically placed insiders pursuing a combination of bureaucratic, ideological, and economic objectives. The assassinations of John and Robert Kennedy, and the attempted assassination of George Wallace, all benefited Richard Nixon and served the interests of military and military-industrial elites. Furthermore, arranging these shootings and pinning them on patsies would have required many operatives, extensive resources, and a variety of skills. Similarly, if the attacks of 9/11 were executed or somehow facilitated by U.S. public officials—as much evidence suggests—a number of agencies would have had to have been involved, including elements of the Department of Defence, the CIA, and the FBI

As it stands, events with profound implications for the nation and the world are left to be investigated on an ad hoc basis; procedures for controlling crime scenes, inventorying evidence, interviewing suspects, interpreting evidence, overseeing the investigative process, and reporting findings are developed on the spot in the aftermath of the tragedies, when the nation is in shock and the perpetrators may be covering their trail. Public officials or their agents lost, discarded, or destroyed critical evidence in the World Trade Centre destruction, the anthrax mailings in October 2001, the disputed presidential elections of 2000 and 2004, the assassinations of JFK, RFK, Martin Luther King, and the attempted assassination of George Wallace.

SCADs can become an important tool for political analysts to link and categorise seemingly isolated or random politically or military motivated events. However with Representatives and Senators becoming increasingly linked to corporate and military interests there could well be apathy towards them outing higher level wrong doing. The fact that the top political and military personnel are having their seemingly unrelated actions coordinated could make them wary of being so cavalier in their contempt for those below them. At least it could make them tread more carefully so that not too many pieces of the jigsaw are connected together. Let us hope that this method of analysis can shine enough light into the dark corners of history that the crimes against democracy can be redressed and democracy can once again be restored to its former pride.


freeacre said...

Montana, Stoney, Rockpicker, Hot Springs, et al - I hope I didn't cut your conversations off. Feel free to continue. Since we were approaching 100 comments, I thought it wise to begin a fresh comment section. Besides, Belgium's subject of conspiracy seems apropos to differing theories of climate and what info is being advertised and what is being suppressed.
Here's rp's latest link:
I found it jaw-dropping.

freeacre said...

Montana, I'm with you. Asteroid.

Anonymous said...

From Belgium

FA thanks for the work you have done. I had a feeling Blogspot would not reproduce the formatting of the table. I think that most people can work out that what should be presented vertically has been broken into sections and each vertical portion is now represented as a horizontal line. Again thanks for the effort.

Dr Stuart Jeanne Bramhallw said...

I would add to this the murder of Oscar Manassa in 1989 to conceal that Bush and his cronies diverted funds from the federal workers compensation fund to fund the Contra war in Nicaragua. And the seizure of the evidence file from the Seattle police to block a homicide investigation. I write about this in my recent memoir THE MOST REVOLUTIONARY ACT: MEMOIR OF AN AMERICAN REFUGEE ( I currently live in exile in New Zealand.

freeacre said...

Welcome to the Campfire, Dr. Bramhall. You've certainly peaked my interest! Will turn to your site. Look through our previous posts with the comments. You'll probably find you are among friends.
I would add the rather recent suspicious plane crash that killed former Rep. Stevens of Alaska and the expert he was with while they were investigating HAARP.

Anonymous said...

Morning Chaps,

Stoney, RP, HSW, et al. Try not to get hung up on Co2 just think how the system works in basic terms and you'll realise it's no biggie.

Climate system warms, more water evaporates, more clouds form, blocking sunlight, system cools, clouds dissipate, system gets more sun energy, more clouds form, blocks sun, system cools. Add in some retained energy (a minuscule amount btw) and what happens? More clouds form, balancing the system like a thermostat.

out NH climate is dictated by ocean events (ENSO) which drive known weather system events like the Arctic Oscillation and N Atlantic Oscillation, these decadal (20, 30, 40yr) cycles can be out of phase (usual) or in phase where we get extremes. It's close to a 60yr cycles of warm/cool, check out the Arctic Oscillation diagram.

If you want to get your environmental priorities in order, you might want to listen to Geoff Lawton (Permaculture Design Course) on evidence to act Here he has a great way of looking at it, really refreshing.

on SCAD I would say it's not limited to the N. American continent, Polish airliners n all.


Anonymous said...

meant to say demonising Co2 is political cover for peak oil mitigation, while enabling the elite skimming scam on energy, to replace the current skimming scam on the doomed money system. Gamedog ;)

Anonymous said...

Does the full moon/solstice/eclipse indicate truth coming to light?

Check out this latest ramping-up of 9/11 truth. I love it!!

Hotsprings, Gamedog; Here's a link to another Kim Greenhouse interview with a microbiologist concerning chemtrails...It sounds like he might know Dane's biologist friend, and he definitely knows Rosalind Peterson.


mrs p said...

Wow! Wow! Wow! Oh my, the layers and sub cultures of our two governments. Belgium I think you hit this one out of the park! It's always enlightning to come here and read what's going on. Scads of scads. We the people forget. Well...some of us forget. Isn't all the manipulation amazing! And to think that so many Americans feel their country, their democracy is the best and is clean & pure. Kudos to you for this post and we'll look forward to reading the whole essay. fa and murph kudos to your campfire--it's so consistantly of value. love you guys and this great camp circle of contributors, mrs p

Anonymous said...

Absolutely brilliant post, Belgium. Think I'll make up a tee shirt with SCAD's explained on it, so as to help fix the acronym in people's minds. It's a concept whose time came a while back. Maybe people will read it and think about what it means, especially with all the truther stuff coming out. The psyops being run on the Gulf coast currently is another example, as is the chemtrail program.


Anonymous said...

wv= cosines

Anonymous said...


First off, what a fantastic photo HSW, Freeacre sees it as the fragility of connections and I saw it as the moment of cells dividing and giving new life. In a way it is indicative of what this present post is all about, a different way of looking at the same thing and coming up with an alternative interpretation. One way or another it is a great picky.

Thanks for the kind words Dr Bramwel; Mrs p and Rockpicker although I am basking in the reflected glow of Lance deHarven Smith.

I must admit that I did not previously know about the death of Oscar Manassa but now I do. One purpose of blogs like this is to add additional enlightenment to existing situations in order to make a more complete picture. Maybe Freeacre’s mention of Senator Stevens is also a cover up. Certainly, many of us only have the official narrative of what HAARP is all about and many of the many, suspect there is more to the story. If this is so it would be an innovation to have a Representative selected for such special attention. When I sent this post over to Freeacre, she mentioned the spate of microbiologist deaths a few years ago which in turn made me think of the spate of truly bizarre deaths of scientists working on Siemens Electronic Warfare project about 25 years ago. There is obviously more to these events than we have been told and they are both in the theatre of the industrial military world but they do not appear to be connected to high governance. They are certainly crimes against the people concerned but not enough is known to classify them as crimes against democracy.

We have all seen Air Crash Investigations on NGC and within hours of a crash the CAA come in, take over the site and pull rank on everybody else. There should be a similar set up for sites like 9/11 ground zero which is independent of FIMA although it might not be in everybody’s best interests to set such a thing up. There again there are disturbing things surrounding Lockerby which NGC has not looked too closely into.

I am curious if this was a random coincidental hit from Dr Bramwel or if she has been a background follower of our deliberations for a while. I do realise that running your own blog is a drain on time but I do hope you can contribute more over here, at least in the comments, you are most welcome.

Anonymous said...


I forgot to add, that was quite an epic Rain Maker clip. The previous record for days of snow before Christmas in Belgium was 17. This year we are already up to 20 and there is no sign of it stopping. Jezz I hope I don’t finish up inside a glacier with or without a full belly.

Anonymous said...

The Freedom of the Moon

I've tried the new moon tilted in the air
Above a hazy tree-and-farmhouse cluster
As you might try a jewel in your hair.
I've tried it fine with little breadth of luster,
Alone, or in one ornament combining
With one first-water start almost shining.

I put it shining anywhere I please.
By walking slowly on some evening later,
I've pulled it from a crate of crooked trees,
And brought it over glossy water, greater,
And dropped it in, and seen the image wallow,
The color run, all sorts of wonder follow.

- by Robert Frost

brought to you by:


Anonymous said...

Full Moon

Above the tower -- a lone, twice-sized moon.
On the cold river passing night-filled homes,
It scatters restless gold across the waves.
On mats, it shines richer than silken gauze.

Empty peaks, silence: among sparse stars,
Not yet flawed, it drifts. Pine and cinnamon
Spreading in my old garden . . . All light,
All ten thousand miles at once in its light!

- by Tu Fu


freeacre said...

Just now watching the eclipse turn total. Gotta good view. Awesome!

Anonymous said...

plum d'terre

Anonymous said...

Los Alamos Scientist: TSA Scanners Shred Human DNA


"Boian Alexandrov at the Center for Nonlinear Studies at Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico recently published an abstract with colleagues, "DNA Breathing Dynamics in the Presence of a Terahertz Field " that reveals very disturbing—even shocking—evidence that the THz waves generated by TSA scanners is significantly damaging the DNA of the people being directed through the machines, and the TSA workers that are in close proximity to the scanners throughout their workday...

"In layman's terms what Alexandrov and his team discovered is that the resonant effects of the THz waves bombarding humans unzips the double-stranded DNA molecule. This ripping apart of the twisted chain of DNA creates bubbles between the genes that can interfere with the processes of life itself: normal DNA replication and critical gene expression."


Anonymous said...

ENMOD is SCADs on steroids!

Censored Gulf news: Scientists call on Obama to stop chem-spray


Anonymous said...

Touche`, Charles Hugh Smith


freeacre said...

Right on schedule - 7.4 earthquake close to Japan after the Earth, Sun, and moon aligned last night. More on the way?

freeacre said...

On the subject of conspiracies, take a look at this video of this kid pretty much destroying the Loose Change analysis of the hitting of the Pentagon, and coming up with a much more sophisticated argument. Where have I been? I never heard of this kid.
I don't even know who he is. But, I am going to find out.

Anonymous said...

Well, Freeacre, I have to admit that recent takes on the Pentagon attack may obfuscate rather than shedding light on what happened. This kid sounds pretty sure of himself that a plane hit the building. But then, the pilot instructor on Jesse's program the other night sounded equally sure that Hani Hanjoor could not have flown that big goddamned passenger jet that fast and that low to the ground and hit his target.

Here's another piece to the puzzle I think might be pretty funny to hear explained. Project Camelot has an interview with a Russian who is friends with a guy named Viktor Bout. Apparently, Bout is an international arms dealer. In fact, he is supposed to be the guy portrayed by Nicholas Cage in the movie "Lord of War". Anyway, he's said to have been caught by US operatives and brought back to this country for allegedly selling the missile to whoever fired the missile that hit the Pentagon.

My question is, if a plane hit the Pentagon, how does the government intend to prosecute someone for providing a missile used in the attack? This one I don't get at all.


Anonymous said...

Ok, but, the Pentagon is one of the most watched building on the planet -how come there's no footage of a plane hitting it? Or, is keeping that footage locked-up a way to PROMOTE the idea of a missile hitting the building which eventually discredits 911Truth groups?

Geez, it's enough to make me want to drink ALL of my home made beer.



Hotspringswizard said...

Excellent post Belgium. I don't even bother to take the time with people who try to hang the " Conspiracy Theorist " label on me for what I might try to tell them about. People should consider the ideas presented, and judge the merit of what is being proposed. Those who are so dim that they get stuck with the labels like that and use it to blind them or close their eyes, then they are most likely just going to disregard what I might try to inform them of anyway. Best to move on to someone else who will listen.

As far as the elites being held accountable for their " State Crimes Against Democracy " I can't see were its happening on any meaningful level except for sacificial scapegoats made to pay on the the fringes of the ring of main perps. And in the future no matter what terms or classification might be used I think it will BAU regarding this.

Of all the deeds listed ( Kennedy,9-11, etc ), who ever got held accountable for these things? I see Daniel Elesbergs efforts as one exception in this regard. Eric Holder/Obama is " moving on " and holding no one accountable for anything like the many war crimes of Bush/Cheney etc. Obama gets to assasinate you without due process. The torture still goes on ( Bradly Manning for example ). Big Finance continues its plunderng of the working class ( like the latest 700 Billion tax break for these pour High Finance/Big Corp souls! ).

So I don't see any real way these crimminals and scum are going to see any real justice done to them. Anderson Cooper on CNN has his " keeping them honest " segment but all it really amounts to is him highlighting an issue only to move on to the next issue of wrongdoing without anyone ever being made to pay for their mis deeds.


Hotspringswizard said...

Keith Olberman does throw his disdain around in his special comments pieces but as time goes by it too changes nothing of real consequence. And really as the economic situation continues to fall apart I think the lack of anyone being held to account for, or justice being done about the myriad ways the elites screw, lie to and cheat the working class is going to get worse. We shall see but from my perspective this kind of thing is just going to increase in scope with the kind of societal conditions we are heading into.

On another subject I agree randy about your Pentagon observations. The building before the collapse of the front facade in the initial minutes after impact showed a roughly 20 roundish hole in the building with windows intact on each side and above it. A jet hitting it is therefor nonsense if the picture is accurate.

Its ridiculous for them also to propose that in all of the videos of the event that they imediately confiscated there is no video showing what hit the building. I mean we are talking about the logistal center of the most massive military complex that ever ruled the planet. Clearly this complex was and is ringed 100% with high tech video surveillance. And a full sized Jet Liner supposedly was involved, and yet it just disappeared as far as debris.

Bodies, anybody see them? Officialdom says they disintegrattedin the fire. Yeah right! The impact was at ground level and yet the ground and grass right up to the building had no signs of disruption. Plenty more anomalies that fly in the face of the " official lie " accounting.

Moving on, I was speaking of Climate Change and increased moisture in the atmosphere in the last thread, and here in So Cal we got smacked with a clear example of this developing alteration in normal world weather trends. Since Friday at a measurement spot in the San Bernardino Mountains which are about 15 miles south of our home, it received as of this morning 26 and a half inches of rain. Thats probably close to a years worth of rain in just four days for the area involved. So Cal has been deluged with a number of towns and areas including Victorville just next door to where we live in Apple Valley has been declared disaster areas. This kind of episode is just the kind of eractic and extreme weather that is to be expected in increasing amounts with developing Climate Change. On the plus side, we are loving the water in this dry high desert. Its going to be turning quite green in the weeks to come :-)

Anonymous said...

rp the massive La Nina bunched up all the warm water in the N. Oceans, hence the deluge as the jetstream pushed it all east

we get a bunch of this weather every 30yrs or so, completely "normal" in the grand scheme.


murph said...


As an aside and in conjunction to this posting, take a read through this link.

Every day, more of our civil rights are debased or written off and accountability of government officials at all levels is decreased.

We are so doomed.

Anonymous said...

"Those who make peaceful change impossible make violent change inevitable."

-Jack Kennedy

Hotspringswizard said...

" Normal " conditions for the southwest during a La Nina are colder and dryer conditions, not massively wet 5 day onslaughts of rain ( which could be expected for a strong El Nino ). Normal for the world CO2 until humans started burning massive amounts of hydrocarbons was 250 PPM. Now we are at 390+ and climbing. The scientist say that extreme and chaotic weather is on the increase because of this. Most of the ice structures around the world are melting indicating a warming world. Look Glacier National Park where there are now around 30 Glaciers where there used to be over a hundred.

What does it say when the record highs in the US in the last ten years have been double the record lows? Thats a clear trend of warming. Warming for whatever reason will mean more evaporation, which will equate to higher precipitaion and stronger storms. CO2 in the atmosphere is like the effect of putting a solar blanket on a pool, what happens, warmer pool.

Our atmosphere has been described as being as thin roughly as the thickness of a coat of paint on a basket ball. So what effect perhaps would we find with 5000 Gigitons of a greenhouse gas solar blanket spread across the earth?

So does all of the above ( of course there is much more to it than that ) add up to a grand facade pushed by the PTB so they can create CO2 credit schemes to plunder the masses with? I seriously doubt it. I'd say its a case of climate change being valid, and the PTB developing CO2 schemes that will plunder us anyway because thats what they do, always figure out ways to rig the various systems for their own benifit.

I think we are in for an increasingly precarious ride regarding earth's weather and the impacts this will have on humans and the way they live their lives will be huge ( it already is ).

But even if the weather goes completely bonkers around the world I know I will never be able to convince my mom that it has anything to do with the CO2 and the other greenhouse gases that have been produced by humans. To her the weather is caused " only " by natural cycles and there is not any amount of evidence I could tell her about that will convince her otherwise. Even if she perhaps is wrong about her assumption on this, she would never allow herself to see it, or admit it.

It really doesn't matter what happens with the weather, people will disagree about if its changing, why its changing, endlessly. What I see more than not however is that folks, businesses ( big oil ), etc that have a vested interest in wanting to see BAU practices continued are alot more inclined to say that humans and their activities have no effect on the climate.

We shall see what unfolds from here on out, weatherwise.

Anonymous said...

HSW the Madden-Julian Oscillation (MJO) is an import very large scale atmospheric disturbance that is at the root of the current wet-weather in CA.A nice overview can be found here: (pdf)
It is highly varible during La Nina periods, and usually less prominent during El Ninos. The last big MJO event for CA was during the strong La Nina of 2008.

The Arctic Oscillation plays a major role too, determining where the jetstream get to.

Elmo said...

Probably could have been shortened considerably just by saying: "The words "conspiracy theory" are designed to make people say 'Ugh!""

Am I a "Conspiracy Theorist"? You Bet Ya!

My personal take on 9/11:

As it was happening, I thought...
"Where are all the fighter jets?"
"Why does Bush have that stupid look on his face?"

I did not see any plane wreckage in the Pennsylvania footage.

I was not surprised when the towers fell.. Am I the only one?

I discovered later on that...
No plane hit the Pentagon.
Multiple videos show something other than a commercial airliner hitting the second tower.
Building 7 fell without any outside help.

When Bush announced: "Osama did it, and we're going to war!", I noted that they brought that verdict in a little too fast!

Osama bin-Laden denied all accusations of his involvement. What self-respecting terrorist does that?

I could go on, but anything else would be pure speculation on my part. But it's obvious to me who did it, and why. And it wasn't a bunch of Saudis with box cutters!

My take on the New World Order:

There has always been someone working on building one since long before ancient Babylon. It ain't nuthin' new!

The Pentagon is one of the most security dominated buildings on earth. And we only get Five Frames of parking lot video?! Do we even need to ASK if there might be a cover-up?

freeacre said...

Greetings, Elmo! Looks like you came to the right place! Pull up a log and make yourself comfortable.

Anonymous said...


Climate change, of course.

Anthropogenic origins? Not proven.

Compared to the possible heat in-put from undersea vulcanism, the potential for CO2 to be the sole culprit is slim, in my opinion.

Much info in the ice-core data, and some pretty interesting correlations between dissimilar phenomena.


Anonymous said...

Besides, getting carried away with co2 as the point source for global warming only encourages enmod, and I don't think any of us wants that.


Hotspringswizard said...

RP, I don't consider CO2 to be the sole culprit for Climate Change. Of course the weather had its wide ranging variations long before humans started burning stuff and all the factors that created these differances in those times are clearly still actively affecting earth's weather. I think the thing to note is the upward quick rate of change of C02 in the last 150 years, knowing the qualities of its heat trapping characteristics.

The weather channel yesterday was highlighting their top ten list of the most dramatic weather events of 2010. Number one was the excessive heat experienced around the world this year, especially during the summer months. They showed a map of the world with circles showing extreme temperature anomalies, red for heat, and blue for cold. The map was almost entirely red, except for a small area of blue on the European continent.

The Atlantic this year experienced large areas of all time record temperature, and the 19 named storms for this region is the third highest since records have been kept.

If the solid ice structures around the world continue to melt, with total world volume decreasing every year, then under those conditions the earth is in a warming trend. This is what has been occuring. Even though areas in the winter months, northern or southern hemisphere may receive extreme snow events this still is not an indication of overall/average earth temperature cooling if the solid ice is still in decline.

Seems to me that the disagreement here in our discussion is how much an important factor C02 is in the creation of warmer earth conditions, and if it is, how much of the C02 increased concentrations in the atmosphere is actually caused by mans activities. To me the correlation between the C02 rise with the burning of hydrocarbons is convincing when one looks at how relatively stable the C02 concentrations where before man began to use hydrocarbon energy, which also catapulted human population, which created even more burning.

I know climate change is a complicated puzzle RP, and I do consider your alternative information on this subject. Weather has always been a particular interest of mine. And RP, this enmod ( environmental modification perhaps? ), yeah we don't want the geoengineering experimentation craziness. I was talking to Dane tonight and earlier today a lone lightning bolt hit one of the three lighting rods Dane put up next to his home, which sits on top of a mountain. Weird thing about it was there was no lightning or thunder before or after this lone bolt. He and his wife had also been hearing large aircraft flying low over his area which is quite remote. He had been talking alot with people at Carnicom in the morning. Anyway the bolt took out his hydro electric generator and an inverter with the electricity passing through the ground to where these things were. Kinda strange having a single lone bolt just strike his house out of the blue like that.

Of course he is suspicious, given that he has been so active on the Chemtrail issues. With metalic aerosol capabilities and haarp technology could the people working with these technologies create a targeted bolt. I know I have seen experiments where scientist cause lightning to follow down a long metalic wire fired into the sky if its put up when measurement show the atmosphere is condusive to a strike. Who knows really, we can only conjecture on something like this.

Hey Elmo, the New World Order Spooks didn't get you yet, thats great! Good to see you commenting here. I always enjoyed your input at FTW2. So did MCR give you a lifetime pass for Collapsenet, or are you a paying member? I've wondered how its working out, this new project of Rupperts.

Freeacre and Murph who created the Trout Clan Campfire are good folks and I appreciate their thoughts on the many collapse issues. We all add our bits of perspective. Good to here from you again Elmo :-)

Hotspringswizard said...

I passed by the " fragile connection " today while hiking to Raven Mountain where it is ( the rock feature in the photo ). The recent onslaught of rain we received took a few more chinks of small pebbles out of it. I've never found such a small rock bridge like it in all of my years of hiking :-)

freeacre said...

On yet another conspiracy tack...
here is a link to a very credible interview with an insider who had them wait until his death to release this. On UFO disclosure, etc.

Andre Heath has many fascinating new articles on his The Alien Project that you can click on from our troutclan face page.

I thought this year was weird. Looks like 2011 is going to be even more so. Additional popcorn is required - and a metal garbage can to store electrical gizmos in.

Anonymous said...

Hotsprings; I would appreciate any verification you could give us on the ice melting phenomenon.

Recently, Robert Felix, Dr. Timothy Ball and Joe D'Aleo all agreed on a public forum that glaciers all around the globe are on the increase, even naming them by name.

Can you add to this?

Here's a link to a site you might find interesting:


Hotspringswizard said...

RP, If " glaciers all around the globe are on the increase " then we wouldn't be seeing the rising ocean level that is ongoing. Many islands ( in the pacific and elsewhere ) are succumbing to the increased sea level. The rise that is occuring is coming from the melting of ice structure ( glaciers, etc ) on land. Floating ice melt is not a factor.

I've read many articles supporting this and one site I refer to regularly is,

If the seas continue to rise then the overall volume of land ice is decreasing. Increasing glaciers and ice ages lower ocean levels. So this is why I pay particular attention to reports that discuss retreating land based ice structures and those that show the signs of rising oceans.

Even as the earth is warming ( overall ) there is still plenty of cold air masses around to create lots of snow. The increased atmospheric moisture will bring larger snow events but its the world's solid ice that is the canary in the coal mine of what trend is actually occuring.

Now this is the trend I see to this point in time. Maybe some interplay of factors may come along that could reverse the warming but if the CO2 continues to rise, and with much more greenhouse gases ready to enter the atmosphere because of percolating methane from undersea hydrates, decomposing bio material that until recently was locked in permafrost, and the ongoing world wide release of CO2 by the burning of hydrocarbons, wood in forest and for fuel, it doesn't look to me like there won't be increasing warming in our future for some time.

Its certainly is a complicated subject and I think some of the things I discussed above are parameters to watch for which will provide an indication to the direction the temp trend is taking, warmer or colder. I'll check out that link RP.

Freeacre, speaking of popcorn, one of my Christmas presents was eighteen bags of a variety of gourmet popcorn. So that should keep me stocked up at least for a little while, as the Collapse Big Show thats coming our way unfolds :-) One of the varieties I tried have these little tiny kernels and the package said it may be the smallest popcorn kernels in the world. It made this little popcorn that was especially delicious and tender. I put Olive Oil on mine in place of butter, with a dash of Sea Salt :-)

Hotspringswizard said...

RP, regarding that link I noticed this was stated, " the steady rise in CO2 levels is unprecedented ". So the author is noting that CO2 is rising at a pace we have not seen before.

The activity of the sun of course has a major impact on Earths climate. From what I have read, the Sun is heading for a Solar Maximum in 2012, expected to reach an intensity not seen for a very long time. There was an uncharacteristic lull in the trend a while back but from what I remember reading things with the Sun activity are back on track headed for the maximum. You RP and Freeacre sound like you follow the sun activity more closely so you would be able to speak to what is occuring with it currently I would think.

I do catch new updates about the sun and whats happening on various web links I frequent. I will pass along here any new info I come across on this climate issue that may help us understand more clearly what the trend may actually be. I would like to check out anything you feel is important on this subject too RP.

Regarding climate like we have never seen, in the desert mountains near our home where I hike there are signs in the mouths of the canyons that indicate massive runoff which moved boulders and gouged out deep ravines. Some of the boulders that have clearly come down with the floods are as big as a small car.

In one spot there is a whole large area strewn with rocks of all sizes piled up. After the recent deluge of rain we got for 5 days in the area where these rocks are there was no runoff, at all! I mean it poured down in buckets around here and yet it created no affect of runoff at the site of these rocks.

So one has to wonder how much water would have to fall from the sky to create runoff there that could move 2000 pound rocks. Compared to the rain we got, I can't imagine how much rain that would take.

I've thought that maybe at some point in the geologic past of this area perhaps there was alot of snow built up on the mountains and if some event " flash melted " the snow then I could see all the water coming from that could rush down the mountains all at once and produce the kinds of signs of flooding that I see there. Maybe a Meteorite or Coment could have air bursted over snow laden mountains.

Either way the signs indicate some type of weather event far beyond anything this area normally experiences. The geologic evidence shows that the climate of the last 10,000 years or so has been mild in comparison to what has normally occurred during the rest of Earths history. I am always fascinated by the weather, hence the Weather Channel being one of my regular TV stops each day :-)

freeacre said...

I am sickened, appalled, enraged, and outraged. We just watched "Gasland." It's the documentary, available now on Netflix, that is about what is going on with the tremendous, exponential, increase of natural gas drilling in the U.S. that uses fracking to liberate the gas from shale deposits. This is even bigger than the Gulf disaster. You guys gotta see this one.

Individuals can't win against the mega-corporations. And the regulatory agencies, the courts, the press, the congress have all been bought off. Halliburton rules, and we are all fucked.

Even sadder, the land, the water, the plants, the animals are all going to be poisoned. The squids must be planning to leave the planet once it is destroyed.

I'm praying that the Universe and our Mother, the Earth, fights back before it is too late.

Hotspringswizard said...

Hey Freeacre that Fracking stuff is just insane. I'll put Gasland in our Netflix Que and move it to the number 1 position. Haliburton raises its ugly monster head again.

You have probably heard about the millions in a big bribe that the Nigerian officials were paid by Haliburton just last week to keep them from indicting Cheney related to bribes he was involved with when Haliburton and Cheney were doing what they do best, wreaking havoc with big oil environmental destruction in Nigeria.

I saw a recent video of Cheney at some event and he is looking frail and sickly ( his bad karma catching up with him ) and it wouldn't suprise me if he checks out pretty soon. I will have a big party the day that Darth moves on!

freeacre said...

I don't think there is anyone in the world as evil and destructive as Dick Cheney. It is unconscionable that he is not in Federal prison (Gitmo) for treason, crimes against humanity, and war profiteering. The motherfucker has probably made a pact with the devil and will outlive us all. But, if he does die before me, I will stop everything and declare a new holiday. That goes for Carl Rove, too, for masterminding the dysfunction of our government and misinformation of the public.

Anonymous said...

Excelling re-posting! Thanks!

I like the train of logic here. Very refreshing and certainly worth using.

Anonymous said...

From Belgium

I saw a recent video of Cheney at some event and he is looking frail and sickly (his bad karma catching up with him) – Dorian Grey too!

Anonymous said...

From Belgium

And if there's no tomorrow
And all we have is here and now
I'm happy just to have you
You're all the love I need somehow

The Corrs – Breathless

Best wishes to everyone for 2011

Anonymous said...

Just came across this site while doing my own economic research (wandering occasionally from blogs to links they provide for others). Regarding McCarthy, I believe that "conspiracy" is 20 years out of date. Following the collapse of the USSR, many KGB records came out showing their access and contacts with many accused by McCarthy. Looking at things from that perspective, until Obama there hasn't been as widespread communist activity in Washington since FDR. That being said, most of the rest are pretty plausible.