Saturday, November 26, 2011

Ramping Up

(photo credit to wikimedia)

by murph

It sure appears to me that the worldwide and US situation is escalating in the protest department. It may get dampened a bit during the winter, but I do think it will pick up again come spring, barring some catastrophic event. The PTB are ramping up their suppression and their counter attacks are becoming more severe. If the protests do not degrade into negotiated talks, which the protestors will seriously lose, I do expect protests to increase and probably escalate into some form of violence, which of course the PTB will forcibly answer. If that indeed comes to pass, the character of the American public will be laid bare by their response.

I have run across some younger folks that when I talk about the doom and gloom crowd on the internet talking about how bad things will develop, I am hit with the idea that these folks are selling fear through their advertising. I wanted to point out that there was a big difference between scaring people for economic gain and warning them that bad events were coming and to get ready, with or without economic gain. There are some kinds of mindsets that simply are not worth the time to argue with. Of course when I come across the Pollyanna folks I figure they may feel the same way. Being a doomer is hard work and very seldom much in rewards. J These kinds of conversations remind me of a Robert Heinlein statement that optimists have more fun in life but the pessimists are more often right.

There has been a lot of discussion all over the internet, including this blog, that goes back and forth over the idea about violence to affect change. I would like to examine a bit the assumptions on both sides of the argument.

Those that advocate or predict violent responses to perceived injustice, of course, assume that they can win confrontations, particularly if they have enough people involved. In today’s world, with the modern technology involved in suppression of a populations uprising, (like Libya) this is a tenuous assumption. If the western powers had not intervened, the uprising in the Eastern countries and Africa probably would not have been successful. And, in those cases, the goals of the uprisings are highly suspect as to agendas and alliances. Another problem with the violent uprisings is the agreement that if they are successful, what is to take the place of the current way things are done. I look at the outcomes of the French, the Russian, the Chinese revolutions, and what forces took over in the aftermath and it sure doesn’t appear to be any better than what was fought against. The assumption that something better will be the result is not born out historically except in very few isolated examples.

On the other side of the discussion that proposes non-violence, their assumptions have some very real problems too. The first assumption revolves around that if sufficient pressure is brought to bear by non-violent protest, the situation will change, that those in power will see the legitimacy of the demands and change their policies. This contains another assumption that those in power will voluntarily give up some or all of their power. Historically, I don’t see this as a reasonable expectation (see Tibet’s non violent attempts at freedom from Chinese rule). Or, our own attempt at separation from English rule by peaceful protest and demonstrations, the protests by the Indians against the atrocities by the US government and their brutal suppression, or the protests after WWI by the veterans, or the peaceful protests of bailing out of the bankers not so long ago that were just flat out ignored.

I do realize that any movement to change the status quo by whatever means will result in attempts at more suppression and a lot of blood in the streets, at least in a figurative sense. I do not see the PTB voluntarily giving up power, ever. It has to be taken from them and they always seem to escalate the suppression dramatically every time that is attempted.

I do realize that if enough folks (in the 70% or above) all got on the same bandwagon, change would happen. In this country, that would mean around 200 million insisting on an agreed upon agenda. What is the chance of that happening today? I do not see a general consensus agreement on what needs to be changed nor what is to take its place. Yes, lots of discussion on this, and small groups of people do agree on a few things, but by no means a consensus of the population. If and when that consensus does happen, then watch out! Something will change. The scary thing for me is what groups agenda would prevail. If the Christian right had its way, we all would be living under Old Testament law as they interpret it. Frankly, blaming Katrina on homosexuals as god’s punishment as an agenda for social organization is scary to me.

Now maybe I purposely seek out writers that support my own view of what is happening. I do periodically seek out the other side of stuff, but am always disappointed. Rhetoric, outright false information and political ideology seem to be the only mainstay they have. None of which impresses me in the least.

The comments from the last posting were intense and plentiful. I must have spent 4 hours on them and the links within the links and the added stuff that looked interesting on the sites.

My inbox email is being overrun with political ads and propaganda, from all sides. Maybe I’m just prejudiced on the subject but the ones from the conservatives leave me thinking what a bunch of asses. Not that the liberal side is any better. After all, both sides of the political spectrum are bought and paid for by the same groups. I am left with the question of how any thinking person can vote for any of them. Maybe all this ideology talk should be settled by a duel at 20 paces. Oh, I forgot for a minute there, the Repugs would win hands down. What liberal would think of violence and guns to settle anything? But at least it would provide more profits for the popcorn distributors.

Other than a vast majority of citizens agreeing on an agenda and willing to take part in it, I do not see a successful non-violent change in the status quo. Our own revolution against the British had less than 40% of the population support, at least in the beginning. Same with our civil war and WWI. It takes time and propaganda to fire up a population to go to war or have a popular uprising.

I truly wish I could come up with a solution so that violence was not the outcome to affect the changes we need if we want to preserve any sense of freedom at all in our society. Freedom to be consumers and wage slaves is not freedom in my book. But to achieve anything else, control has to be wrested away from the corporations and the sociopaths that are currently in power and there must be a consensus about what to replace it with. Otherwise, it will just be another cluster fuck laid on all of us.


darius said...

Years ago my friends used to say that "if tomorrow morning every homosexual woke up purple so they could no longer deny it from friends and family, the discrimination would change drastically".

So, maybe we need to hope some morning in the near future, the entire population will awaken with a conscience. Wouldn't that be amazing?

murph said...

Hi Darius,

How would it change? Not so sure the entire population will ever do anything as a group. That would be amazing in itself.

rockpicker said...

Murph, Perhaps one of those points of agreement we need to clarify before proceeding is just who do we mean when we say the PTB?

It seems to me, one reason past revolutions have only partially succeeded is because mass anger was misdirected and the wrong heads rolled.

If you examine the pyramid, who occupies the top tier? Certainly not the politicians. Not even Business. Those who pull the strings of the puppets below them are the real enemy.

When consensus is reached on this point, real economic chaos will ensue.

Anonymous said...

interesting post Murph, your conclusion however works both ways...

"Other than a vast majority of citizens agreeing on an agenda and willing to take part in it, I do not see a successful non-violent change in the status quo."

Violence or no, unless a majority agree on an agenda there can not be any change. (which is probably why OPTOR! encourage no agenda)

What about Gandhi and the salt march, or MLK and the Montgomery Bus Boycott - I bet they carried gaffa tape too ;¬)

I often wonder, regarding the million people who marched against the Iraq war (the 2nd one) in London, if they all sat down in the streets and refused to move, what would happen next?


rockpicker said...

In Libya, U.S. helicopter gunships fired on celebrating crowds of civilians while NATO-sponsored insurgents were bogged down fighting Gadhafi's forces.

murph said...


So true, have to identify the top of the heap and take action against them first, then the minions they control. As Mike Ruppert insisted many years ago, Follow The Money.

Anonymous said...


Good post Murph, it does appear that we are David to the PTB's Goliath. I do agree with much of what you say. There does appear only two solutions to me on this question, one on each side of the fence. The first is for the good people of the land to take their ball home and collectively stop buying stuff apart from food and other essential supplies (eg medicines). This would have the effect of hurting those powers in the place where it hurts most – in their pockets and tanking the economy which essentially they own. Mind you the chances of this happening are about the same as getting 70% of the population to get off their collective couches and into the streets. The other option is for some individual Jackal type (definitely not me) or a small cell of not more than 3 or 4 people to test how well those entrusted with waging the War on Terror have prevailed in their task. For instance somebody could place an incendiary device on top of the IMF building or the WB building or he Fed, (well it worked for Hitler) but in the night when there are minimal people in the building and well away from where any popular protests are taking place. Next time it could be a marksman taking out a prominent banker in Basle. It doesn't really matter who it is, the one getting into the biggest car will do. Top police and top military could be included as could symbolic targets such as the BIS building but where there are no recognisable patterns in the selection of the targets which could be personal or emblematic. I think this is called delivering a message or where I used to come from, giving them a serious talking to. I should add that I would never personally endorse such actions, I merely point this out as the only option left which has a chance of working.

murph said...


Absolutely right. However, a small group can start it. I buy into the 4% principle, ie, 4% of a population can influence what 80% will do. 4% of our population is well over a million folks. I don't think we have that amount in agreement yet.

In my amateur study I have concluded that the demonstrations you mentioned were influential but not the primary reason for the change. Instead, what I see having happened is the 4% principle. Sort of a tipping point concerning public support. Believe me, I do support the demonstrations but it does appear to me if they do not become critical mass, nothing will change. Perhaps, with the fairly savage repression of such demonstrations, it will take even more for the critical mass.

I noticed you did not answer to my assertions concerning assumptions. The one I consider most important is that public pressure can force those in power to act against their own interests. In my perspective, I see no historical evidence for this. It is always going to be operation in self interest. Now, if those in power can be convinced that it is their own best interest to do something different, sort of like the shadow of a hangman's noose on a lamp pole, there is then the incentive to change.

Are you sure of the stat concerning millions demonstrating in London? A million folks is a very large group and multiples of that all agreeing on something is very unlikely I think.

Maybe we will live long enough to see the outcome eh?

murph said...


I like your comment. I often ponder whether there is a civilian group on the approx same level as the black bag government groups. Over the years, I have heard rumors.

freeacre said...

I just read a study that found that the less that people know about bad news regarding the economy, the environment, etc., the less they want to know.

I think that we are going to need to create alternatives that people can see that will provide a structure for jobs and sources they can rely on for sustenance during the collapse. Mike Ruppert has a good take on things in an essay on Carolyn Baker's site. He talks of the good things being done in Sonoma with intentional communities, etc. If they can lead the way, I think a plan to function in a society no longer based on "growth" will be embraced pretty quickly by those left flat-footed by the government and the banksters.

I also think that as long as the televisions support the "more is better" paradigm, the more slaves will fight to stay on the plantation.

freeacre said...

oh, by the way, there is a strong CME from the sun that will be arriving tomorrow. Don't know if it will do more than light up the sky, but it might be worth taking note of. See

Anonymous said...

I've only watched 25 minutes of this video and thought it was good to post here. I believe Mr. Grossman has some valid points in this presentation and could be what you are talking about Murph.


rockpicker said...

Max and Stacy explain Greece. Two parts. Timely and relevant.

wv=splut (the sound of grease hitting the pavement?)

murph said...


You bet that is what I'm talking about. I found that presentation to be astounding. You notice that he is laying in on the population for not demanding what we want and need, instead of depending on someone to give us something. I found it interesting that he insisted the problem has to be defined before you can propose a solution.

I like that guys thinking

Anonymous said...

Agreed Murph, on those events not being the primary reason, although 'catalyst' seems apt.

Not sure about your 4% figure, at least it didn't seem to work in Greece!

Pretty sure on the million march numbers for UK (1.66% of pop), even the BBC reported a million, police said 750k. In Greece at the same time there were 3 million (that's 25% of population) it's in the Guinness book of records so it must be true ;¬) maybe if they'd just sat down instead of resorting to violence...

sats you're starting to worry me :p ;¬)


Anonymous said...

Murph: agreed on assumptions too "It is always going to be operation in self interest." yup.

I'd go even further and state that even with pressure (the shadow of the noose) they would say one thing and do another, until the noose was well and truly round their necks.

sats I could do more damage to an economy with a 2" spanner that I could with 1000lbs of P4, without maiming anyone. This is the gaffa tape analogy, which is maybe a little too cryptic ;¬)

I consider it ill advised to give specific examples of where resistance movements don't have to be armed or violent to be an effective resistance force (on the internet), so I will leave the 2" spanner analogy to your imaginations ;¬)


Anonymous said...

Interesting post, Murph. And I agree with much of what you've pointed out.

One important thing, as long as the media is controlled by TPTB, I dont' think much will change. The sheeple pretty much believe everything they're told to them by the corporate media. And, I believe a good majority of sheeple wouldn't want to believe anything that contradicts the garbage they're fed by the corporate media because this media feeds them the lies of "Freedom!" and Murika having a super-duper free press -all of which is very conforting and reassuring.

Reminds me of the scene in "The Matrix' where Morpheus is teaching Neo about the Matrix:

"Most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. Many of them are so inert, so hopelessly dependent upon the system, that they will fight to protect it."

It's fear. Fear drives people to believe everything they're told. Believing or thinking something different from what TPTB spews with it's corporate media is very scary for a lot of people.


rockpicker said...

Listened to Lifeboat Hour with Mike Ruppert last night. He's very concerned that we're getting close to the end now.

Rense has this piece by Marti Oakley, concerning martial law in this country. Ruppert has always said that would never happen, but Carl Levin and John McCain are introducing legislation that would make this a reality. Check this:

Anonymous said...

I finished that video then I did a search for Mr. Grossman. Found out he died last week. Too bad, he had/has some good points. I'll have to watch it again and make some notes.

Anonymous said...

Did he have a heart attach while in his hot tub? Hit and run car accident? Hang himself
-was he "suicided?"

Dang, I'm paranoid -but hey, they ARE out to get me.


rockpicker said...

Randy, Relax. It was a fast-acting cancer.

Read "Me and Lee,"?

rockpicker said...

Here's one of the prosecutors from the S and L scandal explaining what's going on now to an Occupy gathering.

rockpicker said...

Looks like S. 1867 will codifiy Obama's 'customized' interpretation of the constitution, minus habeaus corpus, et al.

This is old Rachel Maddow footage, but worth remembering.

murph said...

I came across this interesting political assessment.

Has some truth to it I think.

murph said...

I'm breathless from going through all the links on this post's comments. I wonder how his is all going to play out.

rockpicker said...

More new toys for DARPA from Boston Dynamics. Should we ask them to stop?

rockpicker said...

Maybe not outta this world, yet, but getting pretty damned close...

freeacre said...

Global Research has a comprehensive article about preparations for war with Iran, and the start of WWIII. Chilling, to say the least:

Just as an aside, I got banned from because I wouldn't commit to sending them $10 a month for the privilege or reading their site. Conclusion: Trinity is a nozzle.

Here's something to cheer you up, Randy.

A clever mock on the lamestream formula for asshat news.

Anonymous said...

Now THAT was some fuck'in funny shit!

Thanks fa


Hotspringswizard said...

Definition of Rational: Consistent with or based on reason.

Reason comprises conception, judgment, reasoning, and the intuitional faculty.

There is nothing irrational, or unreasonable about defending oneself and ones loved ones and unfortunate others against injustices. At times this must require various forms of force, including violent force.

My view on this subject is very well spoken to in this documentary by Derrick Jensen titled End Civ.

Does anyone really think that peaceful passive activism would have stopped Hitlers atrocities across Europe, and all of the horrible other types mayhem this regime perpetrated? As is discussed in the End Civ doc, pacifist need to realize that the people, entities, groups that are creating much of the mass destruction and carnage across this world are not reasonable, and cannot be " reasoned " with.

Pacifist who only support and advocate non-violent attempts at change actually " disarm " the overall resistance from actually changing anything of consequence. Check out the part in End Civ where Derrick tells the alternative Star Wars story, which satires peaceful non-violent protest. Earth in the end is destroyed but the Peaceful activist are happy that they got " some news coverage ", as if that was some sort of victory.

Hotspringswizard said...

Israel Preparing Iran Attack?

Aaron Kleinreports today multiple eyewitness accounts of the Israeli military moving large missiles into position outside of Jerusalem and in the West Bank....

Hotspringswizard said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Hotspringswizard said...

Prepare for riots in euro collapse, Foreign Office warns

....embassies and consulates request contingency planning for extreme scenarios including rioting and social unrest....

Anonymous said...


GD, Perhaps on reflection I should have left out that bit about tanking the economy, that was mentioned as a consequence rather than a primary action. What I was talking about was wounding the enemy whilst incurring minimal damage to your own side. That means not taking down the infrastructure. If you know a better way of doing that, I am all for it.

Phew these links take some getting through and time is the enemy.

RAS said...

Most protest movements/uprisings, whether peaceful or otherwise, tend to fall to one of two options: they are either co-opted, or they are assimilated. If neither one occurs, then they are generally crushed. Only under very particular circumstances do they succeed (though some consider assimilation to be a partial success, but the point can be argued). This has been the case throughout history in many different types of societies.

rockpicker said...

What if we didn't have this venue. I salute you, Murph and Freeacre, for your courage.

Anonymous said...

Yeah, what he said.


rockpicker said...

I think the single most effective action we as a nation could take at the present time is to come together and demand indictments be brought against the fraudsters who have taken down the western economies.

Obama has said publicly that "they" didn't break the law, "they" were simply unethical. Not true.

Fraud is illegal, and the executive branch is refusing to do it's job.

Such a demand for justice is reasonable and appeals to intelligent stakeholders as a necessary return to the rule of law.

Occupy needs to pursue this without delay. It would unify the country.

rockpicker said...

A gem from the Global Research article, to which FA referred yesterday:

"That "whisper campaign" has now bloomed into a full court press for war by "liberal" Democrats and "conservative" Republicans alike, even as public approval of Congress's work by the American people tracks only slightly higher than the popularity enjoyed by child molesters or serial killers."

rockpicker said...

If 1867 becomes law, we citizens have no recourse but to consider it a declaration of war by Congress and the executive branch, against us.

All of the country is the battlefield?

All dissent is terror?


(NDAA? Nada!)

Anonymous said...

I just received this in an email. Don't know anything other than what the email contains. If it's true, then I call this TREASON!

General Electric is planning to move its 115-year-old X-ray division from Waukesha, Wis., to Beijing. In addition to moving the headquarters, the company will invest $2 billion in China and train more than 65 engineers and create six research centers. This is the same GE that made $5.1 billion in the United States last year. but paid no taxes-the same company that employs more people overseas than it does in the united States.

"So let me get this straight. President Obama appointed GE Chairman Jeff Immelt to head his commission on job creation (job czar). Immelt is supposed to help create jobs. I guess the President forgot to tell him in which country he was supposed to be creating those jobs."


rockpicker said...

If this is true then forcing Immelt and his buddies to run a gauntlet of unemployed workers, barefoot, over crushed GE 13 watt Energy Smart light bulbs would be letting them off too easy.

Anonymous said...

What a nice picture you drew, RP. Love it!

I might have to send that tid bit of information to the wifeepoo. It'll probably burst her Obummer bubble, but sometimes, you know, reality can be a bit harsh, donchaknow.


Anonymous said...

the survival chakra is probably the least understood yet has the most influence as the fuel behind our behaviours and actions when it is triggered into held imprints and primative, twisted emotions. thus ras's re to wiz near the end of the previous post is dead on the money. what lurks in the subconscious rules. for an interesting twist on this see

having said that, wiz's words... "... people, entities, groups that are creating much of the mass destruction and carnage across this world are not reasonable, and cannot be " reasoned " with" are also dead on the money.

key here is imprints the top of the heap (as noted by RP) are running on. and then, those who do their bidding. clif, in his latest missive, calls it correctly. they are psychopaths. we'll all acting out held imprints to one extent or another. but those fueling the top of the heap are particularly nasty

wiz... though an excellent point, i doubt the pacifists are exclusively to blame for disarming resistance. but then, you may not be saying they are. just that they are culpable. which i tend to agree with. they are acting out imprints as well and, generally speaking, in major denial of their rage at the injustice, etc, etc.

ras... would luv for you to write that post and the murph's publish for discussion here... p

Anonymous said...

murph... excellent post once again. as to your 4%... the 100th monkey confirms possibility of the few inspiring the many even when they exist on seperate islands. sand pile theory does as well. of course, that can and does work both ways. but, it proves much is possible that appears to be impossible. rationality can see the inevitability of the sand pile but blows fuses over the 100th monkey. certainly nothing exists in rationality to explain it. or objectivity for that matter.

trout clan... amazing commentaries and links. this campfire rocks!!! i guarantee you all, potential for every possibility exists in the fabric of U. we are at a crossroads. we've been here before and the planet and its peoples survived and eventurally came back. both lemuria and atlantis went down but civilization rose once again. this time its different and the potential for total destruction at the hand of what presents to be human indeed exists. operative word: radiation. lets hope... no, lets BELIEVE we or something can stop it/them in time.

i really think the best we can do right now is to help the something by recognizing that limitations and judgements we place against possibility are just that - limitations and judgements. screw it if it don't make sense or isn't "reasonable". lets give outside the box thinking something besides judgements against it. we can make good argument that eons of evidence have proven that nothing can be done about the human condition, that revolution nearly always fails or swaps seats on the titanic at best. changing any of this is extreemly difficult if we don't open our minds to possibilities. i just about guarantee you this... if the current crisis this planet and its peoples find themselves in at the hands of the psychos doesn't come to pass when we look back in hindsight we'll see it wasn't about anything 'reasonable' that stoped it. it will be something that, looking forward to it's possibility, we'd call miraculous. and right now, we need one! it will be a lot easier if we start to believe we can make miracles rather than poo-pooing such as magical thinking.

so, lets own that we hold these judgements when we find them rising within ourselves and release them to U.

balance points draw fine lines and are constantly moving. we need to hold intent to keep moving toward it and hold space for love and life if that feels right for us and for what's outside of love to move into love or otherwise find its right place in U. and the one thing i can assuridly guarantee you... planet earth ain't that place!! ... p

rockpicker said...

"Rabbi. Is there a proper blessing for the Czar?"

"May God bless and keep the Czar,
as far away from us as possible."

-from Fiddler on the Roof

murph said...


Good comment. Yup, got to keep agitating and moving toward something better. It is possible it may be obtainable, maybe not, but we do need to keep going for it. Personally, I am not much into miracles, smacks too much of religion. I tend more to the pragmatic, if it don't work, you move on to some other methodology. What I see happening is a constant attempt to make the unworkable/unsustainable paradigm work.

I also agree that all potentials in the U exist. The question for me is does that apply in extreme to our little tiny piece of U.

LOL WV skeri= scary?

freeacre said...

Yea, p! Thanks for reminding me that the unexpected miracle or event can happen. I argue with my New Age friend that wishful thinking is just denial of the larger picture of what is going on - that "abundance" should not be manifested in limited resources, etc. But, at the same time, I leave open my mind to sentient planetary and solar intervention, etc. Did you see that video of the Sun zapping Elenin, for instance? Wow... were we saved by our Heavenly Father, the Sun? That is wonderful to think of to me - even if it is not rational.
Have I told you how much I love you all? I think we have some of the best discussions on the web. AWESOME tribe!
And, ras - we'd publish a post from you anytime, as well as the rest of you.

freeacre said...

I was all depressed. But now I am going to do something fun, like make biscotti while watching "Ghost Busters". ha!

Anonymous said...

Ray: "Hey, where do these steps go"

Venkman: "They go up."

Or, my favorite:

"Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together - mass hysteria."



Anonymous said...

What I see happening is a constant attempt to make the unworkable/unsustainable paradigm work.

yes murph, agreed, thats fer damn sur!

likewise on the miracle word. i prefer power and magic but both those are twisted into evil even moreso by the same religions that hijacked miracle to sell their false hope and persuade the lambs into giving them their personal power and magic that is their birthright in favor of whacked out interpretaions of a perfet, yet puniitive god. the only thing perfect are the fundamentals upon which U operates. if there is a godhead (and i believe there is!) then it is subject to evolution just like you and me. perfection, in the context the religions sell it, cannot evolve which contradicts the expanding U. U is truely an enigma being fundamentally simple yet as complex as complex can be.

my use is anything but the religious interpretations. we all ought to know that by now but obviously the lessons have been ignored as have so many. thats really what this is all about. ignoring lessons that would support and sustain loving life in favor of antilife and a false sense of security to assuage fears and terror. the only fear with any acceptance around it is fear of god! which is bullshit!!! peddling fear of god as motivation for personal responsibility is irresponsible! fear itself is motivation.

i hope you know just how appropo your WV is cuz where we're at damn sure is skeri! but we the people don't understand how to deal with fear and terror and consequently are being manipulated thru it. how many people do you know who, having just had the shit skert otta them said, damn, that sure felt good? when has fear ever felt good? truth told, a more likely response would be that we hate how it feels. yet its the very thing that alerts us to danger.

in my view, the war on it is evidence for the pervasive hatred of it. realizing this puts the war in a whole new light. in that regard the purveyors of the war as executioners of terror are doing exactly what the hatred of terror held by the masses demand. hold the line against it. understanding this then we can begin to see how we are energetically involved and personally responsible for that aspect of us. we spend trillions of dollars and priceless lives to keep the war 'over there'. but in this regard the war could never be closer to home!

FA... intervention. u can count on it! what we don't know yet is if it will be successful. life really does hang in the balance at this critical moment. hope that doesn't throw you back into the depression. : - ) ... p

RAS said...

Hey all, it'll be next week before I can write that post; I'm busier than the proverbial one-legged man until Monday night, but after that I should have some free time.

Anonymous said...

re 4%/100th monkey...

only if the other 96% are paying attention to the 4% instead of watching all the other monkeys on X-factor celebrity dancing on ice in the jungle get me outa here.

GD ;¬)

rockpicker said...

Obama's put out a hit on Ron Paul?

Hotspringswizard said...

Greer points out that " optimism " and a " can do attitude " will only accomplish what the resource base with allow:

Pepperspraying The Future

....and the tighter the limits press and the more obvious it becomes that the limits aren’t budging, the more passionate the claims that one more heroic effort will defeat them once and for all....

Anonymous said...

Let us act like adults, and make our heroic efforts count strategically.


freeacre said...

You gave me a whole new take on "the war on terror," p. Thanks! I just ran into this latest missive from Anonymous. It's a warning against going to war with Iran.

In the later half, it goes on to sort of meld a practical and a metaphysical cause of resistance that I find captivating.

Thanks, ras, that would be great.

Randy - "You don't normally see this kind of activity from a major household appliance..." ha! I feel better now.

Andre Heath has a new site with lots of assorted earth changes and fringe news:

Break out the popcorn...

Anonymous said...

there is only one terrorist and it lives in our own hearts and minds.
take care of that one and the rest of the story will fall into place.,this outside finger pointing is the only problem that humans face in regard to the possibility of brother/sisterhood, if that is not solved then regardless of any action in the quest for security will die on the vine.
we are all caught in the net of our own making even though we were trained like monkeys to be monkeys and it worked, god did it work and not only that there is still the denial that we are anything other then that.. trained assed monkeys right down to not scratching our monkey asses in church because if you do you will suffer horrible rendition.
its that simple folks. what is so hard about seeing this obvious truth?.
the shitty part is though is that the conditioning of humans and a million books describing it have not found one single way out of this trap.
because wanna know why? because the maker of the trap and the way shower our of the trap is the same entity. its bullshit, there is no way out of the trap.
good start anyway,this is where those that see this will launch an investigation of the idea and those that relish the couch and potato theory will end up as french fries.
paraphrasing for bug
viva la mexico

murph said...

Here is an hour long talk by Chris Matheson. One of the better presentations I have come across. I got it off the Archdruid comments of last posting.

murph said...

crap, I forgot the link.

Hotspringswizard said...

Drone Warfare, President Obama and the French Revolution

....At Ft. Benning, Ga., a new, advanced drone is being tested that the Washington Post reports is the next step toward a future in which drones will “hunt, identify, and kill the enemy based on calculations made by software, not decisions made by humans.”....

freeacre said...

We just watched Avatar again. Better than pie.

Maybe we ought to paint ourselves blue.

WV: nongs. The future will require large nongs.

Russ said...

Hi Murph - your analysis does not cover the probability of a "great event", such as the effects of global warming, smothering the political mess in its wake. This will take decades but it's goling to happen. Thanks for your blog from the great state of Oregon. Russ

Anonymous said...

your welcome FA. i'd stated this before on occasion in the 5 years or so i've been hangin round this campfire. but then, MF paraphrasing the bug just put it a whole lot better than i ever have... p

murph said...

Hey Russ,

Got to admit that I'm not sure how to take some of the reports about cosmic events having an effect on the earth. New one out today on the sun. As far as I know, there is no way for humans to prepare for such events and we sure can't change them. Even anthropomorphic warming I figure can't be effectively changed, gone on too long now. Essentially I like to focus on things we do have, or some potential, control over.

If humans had the ability to go off world to get away from this mess, to someplace else, then it would be a question of who goes. A great diaspora kind of thing. Much SF written on this.

Collectively, humans on this planet have absolute control over how they are governed and how society is organized. Overall, it appears to me that we have exercised that control like a bunch of kids in a sand box by putting folks in control of things that should have been tossed in a burlap bag and taken to the nearest body of water at birth. Barring that extreme ability to look into the future behavior of progeny, look at who we have allowed to take over. We, collectively, have done this and history is full of records on this happening. Despite our bitching and complaining about how the world has and is being run, we put them there. THAT we can change. But to do that, we really need an agreement on how we want to organize ourselves, and that does not seem to be in the offering. Way too many self interest groups that want control over how things are done and most of them are mutually contradictive.

Maybe humans are just flat out unable to collectively self govern.

Anonymous said...

Murph - The vidoe of Chris Martenson was very good.He has a good delivery and makes sense.
Don't know if the Campfire has seen this video or not, but I am watching it again. Helps me to keep things in perspective. Enjoy,

Hotspringswizard said...

Bexar, regarding that youtube video " Home ", beautiful imagery and music for sure. I agree with the ideas presented about how humanity is building up grave troubles for itself, but I don't agree with the ideas toward the end implying that if we all somehow collectively join together and tweak the paradigm in varied ways that all will end perhaps happily ever after.

This video was done by the PPR Group. As in:

....PPR group has put together a remarkable portfolio of leading brands a companies all of which have exceptionl market appeal and major growth potential....

Growing as the video points out again and again, faster and faster, even for the PPR Group, is still the path chosen. The video says humanity is still following the same failed model. PPR group is doing the same in my opinion.

Its akin to the idea that if we just change over to compact flourescents and all get electric cars, little adjustments like that will get us all out of the doom of humanities dire course.

The fate of Easter Island was a glimpse into our future. The video ask a question basically like this " why didn't the inhabitants of Easter Island change soon enough to stop their collapse "? Well they didn't change because how they behaved is inherently part of nature of the human animal. We won't change our collective path either in any significant sense, Earth will be our Easter Island. Our giant skyscrapers remind me of the huge Easter Island stone statues, symbols worshiping ways of " being " that could never last.

Hotspringswizard said...

Paul Craig Roberts video: The agenda of Bill 1867 just passed Thursday is to shut down the critics of the US government.

Congress is Repealing the Constitution

Anonymous said...

Hotsprings, could not agree more about the ending of Earth video. The parts where Glenn Close, the narrator, keeps saying "faster, faster", reminded me of the part in the Chris Martenson's video where he said that things are moving faster.
The scenes of Lake Powell and Glen Canyon, takes me back to those areas. As a young teen, I crossed Navajo Bridge in 1955, the year before the dam was built. There were rapids below the bridge, but not now. We even saw men surveying the area at that time for the damn which is up river from Navajo. Forty seven years later, I got to go back. We hiked up to a Mesa from information someone gave us and there we found a Forrest of petrified wood, trees, all over the place. I almost took my shoes off because I felt this was a sacred place. On the way back down, we saw tracks on top of ours. Mountain Lion! What a great experience that was.

Hotspringswizard said...

Bexar, Regarding those petrified trees you had the moving experience with, they too strike me as symbols of great change and the impermanance of all things. I saw an old video showing Glen Canyon and all its amazing beauty just before the dam was put in. The film was done in technicolor and was stunningly vibrant with color. What a shame to lose that magnificent environment just to bury it all under water, never again to be the same. Some of natures rare treasure was lost for future generations to appreciate.

On another subject this looks rather ominous. On the one hand if the western powers and Isreal go full tilt and overtly attack Iran ( Syria ) the middle east will become a powderkeg and likely precipitate other economic mayhem on a grand scale. So it seems their tact for the time being is the covert approach to try and achieve their sinister objectives:

All Eyes on Israel After Second Iranian Blast

...."Instead of overt action you have covert action. This is the new battlefront -- this is a new kind of war," an Israeli defence official said....

Anonymous said...


Just thought I would let you know that after 541 days, Belgium finally has a government. Whoope.

Hotspringswizard said...

Prepare for an Economic 9/11 and Economic Martial Law


"The entire global economic system is collapsing"

Gerald Celente talks to Lew Rockwell about his top trend forecast for 2012.

rockpicker said...

In Missoula, on a strange computer, at a strange time, but feeling the need to pass along this short bit from Chris Hedges.

Time to finalize last minute preparations, gang. The shit is hitting the fan now, and it will only get more surreal from here on out.

Hedges is absolutely correct about the churches standing up for the rights of common men and women.

Praise their courage and forthrightness if they do.

Fuck them if they don't.

Anonymous said...

Dang! Woke up to a weird dream/nightmare this morning.

In the not-too-distant-future (next month?) drones are flying over Murika and the sheeple are getting restless to the point of rioting, as in food riots, and these drones start wasting Murikans on a daily basis and -

-Ok, yeah, I was still thinking yesterday about AfPak being a drone testing ground and the movie, "The Running Man" crept into my cranium and the scene where "Aaaanold" is a pilot who's ordered to lay waste to the food rioters with a few hellfire missiles and -Presto! Nightmare central.

Problem is, it might not be far off. Wonder if they'll find enough Murikan thugs to do such a thing. I guess that fuck-tard who pepper-sprayed the Burkley students would probably jump at the chance to light-up a few hundred rioters. He'd probably cream his jeans.

Oh, and then I thought that well, maybe the people here will unite against the drone attacks and ... naw, they won't do that at all. The people here are like the Eloy who line up to be abused -oh, or probably do whatever the church tells them to -like lock and load and take out all infidels.

Jezz, I got one hell of a pessimistic imagination.



murph said...

Hi Rockpicker,

I caught the Cris Hedges link you put up.

One of my criticisms of the Christian community has been the lack of opposition to the thuggery by the politicians and bankers for a whole lot of years now. Few in the Christian community stood against Hitler and few are standing against the present paradigm now. What I hear is a whole lot of hate and fear concerning anyone that is different in any way from their own set of beliefs. I do not hear any affirmation of real freedom or real discernment. What I am hearing is the idea that; your either with us or your against us. What I am hearing is a Christian community that is all caught up in political ideology, self gratification, hate and fear. I have not yet come across any spokesman for the main stream churches that condemns the present paradigm of operation in this country or the world.

Now I do realize that my impressions are not going to be applicable to 100% of the Christian community, but it sure appears to me to be pretty substantial, hypocrites to the very backbone of their souls.

During the Bush administration where was the council of churches when Bush proclaimed himself a christian and then proceeded to kill at least a million civilians? Where was the council of churches when any of our "leaders" proceeded to nullify our social contract and take away social freedom? Where was the council of churches when the robbing of our country was taking place? Not a peep from them.

Oh well, just another rant by a discontented curmudgeon.

rockpicker said...


I am in full agreement with you, and from the tone, Hedges doesn't hold out much hope either.

Those who actually walk the walk, I think, are rare, no matter what dogma is espoused.

Why is it that millions of so-called followers of the "Prince of Peace," the "Lamb of God," seem to be among the first to take up arms in order to solve socio-political problems? Only thing I can figure is that they are, for the most part, blood-thirsty savages who never really lived,and are scared to death of dying.

Hotspringswizard said...

Occupy Movements, the real terrorist, send in the drones!

UK Police include Occupy movement on 'terror' list

Hotspringswizard said...

I watched this excellent talk by Glenn Greenwald today on Free Speech TV. Here is the same speech on You Tube consisting of eleven parts and you may also want to check out the three video link at the middle right to the Q and A session:

With Liberty And Justice For Some

Anonymous said...

where was the council of churches? they're on crusade murph. the same one... p

freeacre said...

Sorry to take so long to respond to your news that Belgium has a government now - after 541 days. I guess I kinda hoped that you could go on forever without one. I betcha you couldn't have gone a day without s central bank.

Well, pretty soon we'll probably all have the same government.

Anonymous said...

"Well, pretty soon we'll probably all have the same government."

If not in name FA, it is in deed.

Question: What countries are NOT tied into the central banking cabal?

I know Libya wasn't until 3 weeks after the... ahem "revolution" anywhere else?

freeacre said...

Not surprisingly, as I understand it, there were 3 countries with non-Rothchild type banks: Libya, Syria, and Iran. Now there are two.

Anonymous said...

North Korea is another one.


rockpicker said...

I was guessing Venezuela. Tried to post a comment to that affect this a.m., from Missoula, but lost my connection.

Right now listening to Michel Chossudovsky on Rense. Jeff just said the FDIC has agreed to backstop 100's of trillions of dollars worth of derivatives! That means we've been sold into slavery, while the rich will skate. Fuck that!

Hotspringswizard said...

I saw yesterday on the MSM Fareed Zakari in a news segment imploring the value and importance of Drones for use by the US military in " todays " wars. One of the guest chimed in how great it was that computers are now fighting our conflicts with their amazing automation.

In the recent incident where Iran apparently was able to electonically down a US spy drone it reminded me of of a concept presented in the Ironman 2 movie, of drones meant for one purpose getting taken over, hacked into electronically and redirected to target the original " controllers ".

I see where Isreal just recently used its drones to assasinate various Palistinian resistance leaders. What could those individuals do to really defend themselves from the death dealing " Reapers " from the sky, machines controlled by those with no conscience, no reasonable standards of morality?

Its just so perfect and easy for the corrupt PTB across the world to use this new technology to take out individuals or groups of any resistance that would attempt to defy their power.

Hotspringswizard said...

Great commentary from Galloway in this audio link!

George Galloway On Iran Attack

Hotspringswizard said...

That link I just posted for the Galloway clip is not complete. I'll try it again:

The link should have " .htm " after the numbers " 29926 " just in case it doesn't post the complete address again.

Hotspringswizard said...

" Washington's Glass House Of Hypocrisy "

While the Obama administration chides that the Syrian protester's " rights " to protest should not be met with violence by the Syrian leader, at home in the US its a differant story we can clearly see:

Occupation Nation: The Militarization of Police
by grtv

freeacre said...

"...What could those individuals do to really defend themselves from the death dealing " Reapers " from the sky, machines controlled by those with no conscience, no reasonable standards of morality? "
It reminds me of when Reese was telling Sarah Connor about fighting the machines in his world in "Terminator." The ultimate corporate abomination. Soulless and relentless.
Boy, Hot Springs, you and Rockpicker are coming up with really good stuff.

Rockpicker - I am stunned at the FDIC putting us on the hook for 100's of trillions of derivatives. I guess they think they own us, so they can do whatever they want to with us.

rockpicker said...

There's a report on the Quayle site from Stewart Rhodes, who founded Oathkeepers, that manufacturers of dehydrated food products have been approached by the feds demanding client lists. Here's the link to an Alex Jones interview.

Most of us are watching in horror as our worst fears play out before our eyes. Yet many still are not paying attention. And those who do want to know rely on the lamestream, believing corporate-owned media outlets will tell them the truth, when in reality, it's well-understood by the mass media shills and sycophants that it is their job to give us the proper spin on the truth, and obfuscate information that might put their corporate masters in jeopardy.

We don't realize how much power we have. We've been taught to view ourselves as individuals, rather than elements of a collective consciousness. But if we are going to survive the coming onslaught, we need to agree that the threat is real, it's imminent and determine individually and collectively that resistance is worthwhile.

I am not getting on a bus...

rockpicker said...

RT interview with Max Blumenthal concerning militarization of police.

Yeah, Freeacre, the FEMA camps are being activated, with KBR placing advertisements for subcontract services staffing. This is real, folks. Turns out the camps are work camps, in which inmates will live and work as slaves, (us,) for the State.

Sounds too bizarre to be true, doesn't it? The globalists, and their minions, are preparing to fuck us really hard. (S. 1867 passed the senate, 93 to 7.) No question. Obama asked for it, and got it. We need to get organized.

Anybody have access to and knowledge of ham radio?

rockpicker said...

And the beat goes on....

rockpicker said...

once a week, an hour of info and light

rockpicker said...

Fukushima, Passamari, Spring

Bow-legged two-legged, leaning on his hoe
peers for garlic, late beneath the plum.
Cuffs unbuttoned cut the wind like wings.
He veers a stretch of sky between limbs
and bed, tallying spears as if a golden
gauging hares. Planes his friends insist
don't spray poison for many good reasons
and returning geese persist against
the pelt of fronts. A neighbor's tom
deserves his adulation. Clouds decay
to cumulus and haze when no fields burn.
Fat Mouse dies without a kick in yellow grass.
Orach cotyledons pool in paths like blood.

Early spinach vernal under hog fence hoops
and plastic from the dump needs safe water
from the county's deepest well. Still, rain
threatens, at a hundred counts per minute,
not him so much but kids who play next door.
When did the world's backup generators seize?
The missing witness, shoeless on the tape,
muttering, stumbled- on by mistake
in a landfill heap. And this newest war,
when were there debates? He leans on stone
to sort intrusive roots from wanted stock.
One wind whips the town's flags all directions.

Doves weight air a gray he shoulders
like a bar. Admitting defeat so late and far
from sanctuary waves, snow geese argue
security measures all the way to straw. Truth
is north and hurts worse faced head on.
Land a million peasants hoed subsides
while dying aspens turn silver he can't save
and nations crash in gardens like the sea.
Aerosol merges dark as news in sky
when sun unwinds in tongues that peel his ears.
Teetering worlds lose bearings like bickering geese.
He takes the dog whose eyes beg for a walk.
She shows him when you turn you're halfway home.

rockpicker said...

Sen. Carl Levin explaining it was the Obama administration that requested a language change in S. 1867 to include indefinite detention for American citizens.

rockpicker said...

“Some of the US forces that left the Ain al-Assad Air base in Iraq last Thursday, did not come back to the USA or its base in Germany, but were transferred to Jordan during the evening hours.”

rockpicker said...

Another great Chris Hedges speech.

rockpicker said...

While waiting to see just how low gold and the Dow will go today, I ran across this:

freeacre said...

Nice re-working of the Passamari Spring, Rockpicker.

I sure would like to know what is coming down. HPH says whatever it is will be happening in March. Guess we'll see.

I feel schizophrenic as I make plans for the grid to go down while going out to buy more Christmas lights. I'd like to know what is going to happen, and so would I.