Friday, January 27, 2012

ACQUIRING INFORMATION



from Murph


I have touched on the idea of acquiring information before. The reason I am going into it again is because I have been running into people periodically who have no idea concerning how they acquire information. I am going to postulate there are 4 levels of information.

1. First hand information. Your were there and observed. You are part of the insiders doing the investigation, doing the research, collecting the data, part of the experts doing the investigation.

The problem is, for most of us, we don’t have very much first hand information. For the most part, this kind of information is highly specialized and for the people involved in it the information collected is kept discrete and without relationship to other specializations. We aren’t doing the research on global warming, on the depletion of resources or the goings on in our government or much of anything else. We depend, for the most part on other sources of information. First hand information includes; this is what I saw; this is what I heard; this is the results (data) of my experiments. And, of course, if the experimenter and data collector have an agenda, this information can be heavily skewed. Even in the case of observed event, the observer can completely misinterpret and misunderstand what was observed. That is why first person witness testimony in jury trials is not absolutely dependable.

2. Second hand information. This is reported to us, through various means, from people that study the first hand information. If they are good at it, they give us the facts and nothing but the facts about the area of study they are reporting on. Reliability of the informant is key here.

The problem here is that way too often, this second hand information is clouded up with opinion and projected inferences of the data they are reporting on. Also, often agendas also interfere with this kind of reporting. Good second hand information gives you the facts of the case and allows you to draw your own conclusions.

3. Third hand information. This takes the form of quoting and interpreting what #2 reported on #1 information source.

This form in information starts to rely heavily on opinion about #1 information. It will often morph in unsubstantiated conclusions and even misinformation. Often this form of information is just pure gossip with little to no relationship to the facts. Listen to Rush Limbaugh.

4. Fourth hand information. This is where propaganda, spin and deliberate misinformation take place. This information takes all of the above sources and often utilizes them for an agenda. Again, listen to the Rush Limbaugh rants.

We are exposed to this form of information constantly in the popular media, the internet, and the rumor mill. Even those groups and individual that are sincere in providing us information have an agenda. Nothing wrong with having an agenda and putting out information to support the agenda. But the two need to be separated by the recipient. I suspect that often the reporter from this source doesn’t even know they are not being completely factual and thus draw conclusions that do not stand up to examination.

The inadvertent inaccurate transmission of information is legendary. Remember the school day experiment of sitting in a circle and starting a statement and have it whispered to each person down the line? By the end of the line, it hasn’t much relationship to what the original information was about.

All of the above sources of information can be factual and well analyzed or misleading or contain only half-truths or in some cases out right lies. I have been getting into to the practice of asking for sources from people that assert information that doesn’t sound right to me, and even when it does sound right. This is why it takes so much effort and time to try and determine what the truth of any situation/issue that I am not directly involved with, which are most issues.

I think we are all guilty of rather indiscriminant use of these sources without realizing it. We rely on experts and people involved for our information that may not be reliable at all. We also rely on people that supposedly spend time analyzing all 4 information sources to give us a synopsis of what they found. The difficulty comes with conclusions, projections/consequences and assumptions of the findings.

I have found over the years that most of the information coming from government people to be unreliable, usually contains half-truths and very often out right lies. It shows up today in bold print when the government economists issue pronouncements on the economy or when the president issues statements on the state of the union.

I often question just what is our advantage in acquiring accurate information. The internet today is full of enough information that no man can digest it all. My oft-repeated mantra is that I want accurate information to give me an idea of which way to duck to soften the blows I perceive coming my way. So far, the sources I have used to determine this have worked out pretty well for us in planning our next moves. How’s it working out for you?

The disappointing aspect of all this is that nothing substantial has changed. The information is out there to be acquired and acted upon. The totality of information I have indicates that our social contract is being very rapidly torn apart, we are progressing toward a totalitarian fascist state, our environment is being poisoned to an alarming extent, our society is consumed by greed, our eco systems are being destroyed, the worlds raw materials are finite and being squandered on superfluous bull shit and outside of a very small minority of folks, nobody gives a damn and no changes are taking place that will stop or reverse these directions.

Large-scale social change takes time and a huge amount of energy input, unfortunately. Humans are not very amenable to change, particularly if it is to their personal short-term disadvantage. If my conclusions have validity, then the question arises as to whether we have reached a tipping point and no action can possibly change the direction we are headed. I suppose that if there was sufficient collective will, it could happen but it sure doesn’t appear to me that is on the horizon. Our social momentum is too strong.

It sure would be interesting to me to know what the future historians (if there are any) had to say about our present period of history.

75 comments:

nina said...

Great post Murph. Isn't there a line out there that goes something like "Believe half of what you see and none of what you hear"?

Except in our case, when the evidence speaks for itself. I get the idea historians of the future will delete how it was we got here, especially with wars that include desecrating history and by witnessing the character of leadership and would-be leaders.

freeacre said...

Yeah, and just think of how they'll view the working class. Instead of men in suits and fedoras, women in hats with dresses, they'll show Walmart weirdos. We'll see who gets to write the history.. or herstory.

With all the information overload, biased sources, rumors, paranoia, passion, vision, optimism, pessimism, charts and graphs from various funded and unfunded regions - it's like the Tower of Babel. After while it may get to the point where people start to realize that they believe what they believe because it feels best to them to believe it. Not that it is the one, universal truth that everybody should believe in. And, maybe whatever religion, set of values, or whatever one uses to explain the way life works, it is also realized that we are all human, and that trumps religion.

Of course, the only way that could happen is that we would need to accept that there may be more than one god. Or a sacred universe that individualizes Itself into many sacred entities. Anyway, it would have to loosen up. A lot.
I'm not exactly sure if I am commenting on subject, murph. But sorting facts is hard enough. Sorting all the rest is worse.

rockpicker said...

Like a small loft window, long ago nailed shut, unnoticed, unbeknownst, worked around and stacked against 'til someone with the right tool comes along and pulls the rusted spike, kicks out the square of weathered wood and lets the light flood in, some illuminations are transcendental.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q

rockpicker said...

Oh, happy days.
Oh, happy days...

http://giveusliberty1776.blogspot.com/2012/01/exclusive-breaking-newsjudge-will-enter.html

rockpicker said...

In humor, truth...

http://www.brasschecktv.com/videos/the-bogus-drug-war/introducing-incarcerex-8478-helping-politicians-maintain-long-lasting-election-results.html

rockpicker said...

Murph, here's a classic example of two differing views of what's supposedly taking place in Syria. Who's telling the truth? How can we know? For me, it comes down to past records and who can you trust?

http://www.rense.com/general95/washhh.html

http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/29/world/meast/syria-unrest/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

murph said...

RP,

Went through both the sites you linked to. I notice that both of them have essentially the same slant on things, IMO. I have to ask just what observers have to do with anything? The essential question is was the Syrian uprising instigated by outside influences or not? According to a lot of information swirling around the Libyan revolution certainly was instigated by outside forces to get rid of Gaddafi.

All of this going on sure appears to me to be an effort to install controlled dictators in order to control oil and to suppress Iran's independence.

IMO nothing good is going to come of this maneuvering.

LOL WV dented as in damaged

rockpicker said...

From spaceweather:


Solar wind
speed: 410.2 km/sec
density: 12.9 protons/cm3

They say there are currently no large coronal holes on the sun, but check the photo. Lots of black areas.

http://www.spaceweather.com/images2012/30jan12/coronalhole_sdo_blank.jpg

rockpicker said...

Murph, It seemed like the clear intent of the CNN article was to leave readers with the impression that anti-government forces were home-grown and indigenous groups discontented with Assad's rule, while Lendman points out that much of the anti-government violence has been instigated by outsiders, as was the case in Libya.

Here's something we can all get behind.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=28773

wv= cucia (see you, C.I.A.?)

murph said...

RP,

Of course I sympathize with the agenda in the above link. I doubt that the protest will stop much of anything. I doubt that politically the US can accept anything less than complete capitulation by Iran, just like Libya. Notice that when the government fell apart in Libya, the first thing they did was establish a central bank? I'm pretty much convinced that the agenda is to control the oil producing states and tear apart any state in the region that defies our mandates. And, of course the snarling beast Israel is champing at the bit to reduce their opponents one at a time. Hell, lets blame the Muslims for traffic in LA while were at it.

Anonymous said...

Sats

Good post Murph, like a rapier, in and out, sharp and to the point.

Regarding your points 1 & 2 about first and second hand information it reminded me of a story I read on the internet somewhere that given a choice, most trial advocates will take circumstantial evidence in preference to direct evidence. By way of example the author gave two scenarios. The first was the little old lady who pointed to the accused in court and said “ That is the man I saw take out his gun and shoot the nice policeman”. The second scenario concerns the father of a twelve year old rape victim that accused a recently released paedophile prisoner who had taken up residence close to their home. Neighbours told that since the incident the father was always in a white hot rage saying the new resident was always hanging around school yards leering at the girls and following them home. The local gun shop reported that the father has recently bought a new gun and had said “If that bastard comes anywhere my family again he is for it”. Colleagues reported that he was constantly cleaning the gun and checking the mechanism during his lunch break and reported that the rape of his daughter was consuming the man up. The paedophile was shot but there were no witnesses to the killing. The gun was wiped clean and left with the body but was of the same type that the father had bought. The father was arrested but claimed his gun had been stolen. The question is, if you were a prosecuting lawyer which of the above cases would you choose to give you the more likely chance of a win?

Regarding the comment that social inertia is too strong for change to take place, I first have to tell you that my blog feeds seemed to have stopped working and yesterday I posted two comments at the end of the previous post. I am going to repost them after this comment. They are both fairly long but I know they were true because I saw the protests in action on the MSM news.

Murph wrote “All of this going on sure appears to me to be an effort to install controlled dictators in order to control oil and to suppress Iran's independence.” Not always, the CIA destabilised the Sukarno regime in Indonesia because he wanted to give his people a cut of the action and replaced him with Suharto who was more compliant to Wall Street.

The following two comments are C&P'd from the previous post.

Aho

Anonymous said...

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sats

This from Flanders News in English

" Trains, buses and metro all hit by the strike
VRT

Mon 30/01/2012 - 10:18 Update: Mon 30/01/2012 - 13:11 Public transport is largely at a standstill in Belgium today as a result of the general strike called in protest against the government's austerity measures.

Train traffic came to a halt at 10 PM on Sunday. The railways expect little change in the situation in the course of the day.

Only one in three services of the Flemish public transport company De Lijn are operating in Flanders. In Brussels there are no metro, bus or tram services.

There are, however, big regional variations at De Lijn. In Antwerp and Limburg only one in three services is operating. In East Flanders there is a more mixed picture. Some regional services are running quite normally, while on other routes there is hardly a bus. In Ghent there are no tram services. In Aalst and SInt-Niklaas no buses are running either.

In West Flanders there are no coastal tram services. Only one in four bus services is operating on regional routes in the Ostend and Bruges areas.

International Thalys and Eurostar services are at a standstill too. Services halted on Sunday night. Further disruption as a result of Monday's strike is expected on Tuesday. Passengers are advised to contact Thalys or Eurostar for the latest details."

Thalys and Eurostar are high speed international trains.

Another brick in the wall.

January 30, 2012 4:32 AM

Anonymous said...

Sats

This evenings update to the above.

" flandersnews.be
News
Sports
Flanders Today
MAS Museum


5 "Belgium's general strike is a success"
Belga

Mon 30/01/2012 - 16:14 Belgium's three main unions say that the general success is a success. They are pleased with the response from the workforce and stress that order reigned throughout.

The unions are now pressing for serious talks with the government so that pension reforms and other austerity measures can be modified.

Marc Leemans of the Christian union: "We are striking where possible and staging actions where necessary. This morning I visited picketers in scores of places. Our people are determined."

"They clearly see where the challenges lie and they refuse to accept that it's especially employees who have to foot the bill for measures to get us out of the crisis. Other income groups are not affected! That's the signal from working people today."

The unions are now anticipating an invitation from the government to come and discuss pension reforms and other austerity measures.

Rudy De Leeuw of the socialist union: "I expect a clear signal from Prime Minister Elio Di Rupo." Mr De Leeuw's union intends to evaluate the situation again at the middle of next month.
Belga

Belgium’s employers beg to differ with the unions’ verdict on the strike. They insist that the strike was everything but general affecting public transport but leaving industry largely unscathed.

At the start of the EU Summit in Brussels Belgian Premier Elio Di Rupo (Francophone socialist) underlined the importance of consultations between unions, employers and the government: “There are lots of meetings between employers and the unions and the government supports this dialogue now and in the future with regard to the measures needed for our country.”

Deputy Premier Steven Vanackere (Flemish Christian democrat) says that he has understood the signal from the unions, but that strike action remains an instrument that should be employed with the necessary thrift."

I will keep you up to date as things progress - Sats

January 30, 2012 8:41 AM

rockpicker said...

God damn these fucking traitors to humankind. May they scratch themselves to death with erupting delusional parasitosis!

http://www.counterpunch.org/2011/01/28/the-organic-elite-surrenders-to-monsanto/

rockpicker said...

Classic. Create a problem, to cause a reaction. Denounce the reaction, and offer your solution.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/envoy/hillary-clinton-un-stand-syrian-people-complicit-crackdown-212742585.html;_ylt=AhLUIWmCsu0LDPo2ByPuqOys0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTNsNXZxM280BG1pdANUb3BTdG9yeSBGUARwa2cDZmRkOGNmOWMtOWYzYi0zMWZkLThjNjMtNmIwMzU0YWJlZjQ5BHBvcwM1BHNlYwN0b3Bfc3RvcnkEdmVyAzQyMTcwZmYwLTRjNWUtMTFlMS1iN2JmLWU1Y2VmZDI0Yzc3Mw--;_ylg=X3oDMTFvdnRqYzJoBGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRwc3RhaWQDBHBzdGNhdANob21lBHB0A3NlY3Rpb25zBHRlc3QD;_ylv=

murph said...

RP,

That link on Monsanto I have seen as similar reporting lately. Either we are crazy nut cases or Monsanto and other biotech firms are some of the most evil shits on the planet. Frankly I am on the side labeling them as evil shits. They know damn well these products have an adverse effect on animals and plants, including humans.

I don't know what the method should be to get them to stop producing these herbicides and GE plants. So far, nothing has stopped them. I reckon the CEO's of these outfits are looking at the whole thing from the view of profits and it's a game with winner take all.

If it's a population reduction program, I fear it is going to be very successful.

Did you see where in one Monsanto cafeteria they do not serve any GMO food? Now what I'd like to know is if the employees know this is harmful stuff, why are they still working there? I guess it's like working for the IRS, it's a job and no matter what the organization does, it is still a needed job.

For Randy, I tell ya', we are so doomed.

rockpicker said...

Murph, If you think Monsanto's gmo's are bad, take a look at this series I just discovered on Morgellons. Holy shit. Jan Smith was on Rense tonight. Her website is morgellonsexposed.com. From her site I linked to this:

http://www.youtube.com/user/skizitgesture#p/u/25/FYMjBenoE7Q

Talk about evil. I think we're entering a whole new continent of it...

rockpicker said...

Truth? Lies? Half-truths? Omissions? Commissions? Propaganda?
Oy...

http://www.brasschecktv.com/videos/schools-are-prisons/the-deliberate-dumbing-down-of-america-.html

rockpicker said...

Acquiring information? Seems it's getting more difficult all the time. We may end up going back to the Pony Express to pass information securely.

http://www.brasschecktv.com/videos/war-crimes/blowing-the-whistle-on-war-crimes-is-a-crime-but-committing-war-crimes-is-fine.html

rockpicker said...

Say, what?

"Two American Airlines aircraft were hijacked and crashed during the September 11, 2001 Terrorist Attack: American Airlines Flight 77 (a Boeing 757) and American Airlines Flight 11 (a Boeing 767).
New entry [as of the date of this article] is as follows and includes the bolded text below:
Two American Airlines aircraft were hijacked and crashed during the September 11, 2001 Terrorist Attack: Flight 77 (a Boeing 757) and Flight 11 (a Boeing 767).

Although these flights were daily departures before and a month after September 11, 2001. Neither flight 11 nor 77 were scheduled on September 11, 2001. The records kept by the Bureau of Transportation Statistics (www.bts.gov/gis/) do not list either flight that day.

–Wikipedia"

Full story here:

http://www.opinion-maker.org/2012/01/aa-exposes-bushs-big-lie-flight-11-did-not-fly-on-911/

wv= needs,

as in, the whole world NEEDS to hear Cheney and Rumsfeld confess!

Anonymous said...

Sats

How appropriate of Rockpicker to bring 9/11back into the conversation. I have just finished watching the film of The State Within on DVD which is a BBC miniseries of six times one hour episodes from2006. This is a perfect title of a state within a state. As with other fast paced espionage thrillers, it takes two episodes to actually find out what what is going on but if you hang in there it is worth it. Without giving the game away it is the US and UK vs Tajikistan. A reviewer of the film has said it is available on Netflix for those who have not seen it and want to give it a go.

On another subject, to quote Bette Midler's last lines from The Rose “Where je all goin'. Where's everybody goin'.”

rockpicker said...

9/11, chemtrails, gmo's, smart meters, stolen elections, Oklahoma City, Waco, the powder burns on the back of Bobby's head, Morgellan's fibers with numbers on them, the deliberate crashing of the world economy, synthia in the Gulf, Fukushima, timeline convergence on Dec. 21...it's all so overwhelming.

Think I'll go watch the eagles flying in to roost...

Anonymous said...

Sats

You know what's worse Rockpicker? We banned truck because it was blatant inhuman usury and then we covertly begged the bankers to let us buy without restriction from their factory shop.
Without that one thing the items on your list would not have followed.

I think watching the eagles roosting or the tides or the seasons changing is a more calming thing than thinking on the rest of it. We had a Spring with temperatures from 80 -100°F, a summer that was like Autumn and yesterday we had our first snow, about three inches here. There is a high pressure sitting over the whole of Europe and part of Asia. We have clear blue skies with not a chemtrail in sight and an easterly wind that is blowing out of Siberia, brrrrr. I can't figure it, we have had a week more or less of below zero temperatures going down in the Ardennes to 0°F, for us it was about 15°F and yesterday there were 1400 kilometres of gridlocked auto routes. It's not as if they didn't know it was coming.

I think Mf has the best idea, buggering off somewhere South where it is warm and life goes at its own pace. Anybody heard from him?

Got a link for the Morgellans, I missed out on that one?

rockpicker said...

This is a truly important website.

http://www.morgellonsexposed.com/

Anonymous said...

Nice grass cloth behind the bookcase! We love grass cloth, covered a couple of walls with it. It sure can warm up a room.
How's everyone?

Hey last night we watched a short documentary about life after life called, "Afterlife". Netflix has it. Was comforting to hear about the NDE's (Near Death Experiences) from different people who were clinically dead temporarily. Pretty amazing they all say the same thing about being dead, um I mean being alive after death. Sorry off topic but it was kind of nice to be reminded of some things that seem natural about being alive after death. Weird but nice especially if you've lost someone you care about. Hope everyone is well and hanging in there. Love, mrs p

freeacre said...

Sorry, I've been ore-occupied for a couple of days... working on making new signs for the Grange Sat. Market, being the secretary of the local citizens group, going to meetings, etc. A person new to the community got in touch with me yesterday and said that she and her husband are very much into the transition town movement, collapse preparations, community gardening, etc. Things seem about ready to congeal into a frenzy of activism around here.
That morgellon's site is horrifying, as usual. CDC proves themselves complicit again. Jesus.
Top to bottom corruption once again. It's so pervasive that I am afraid only am ELE event (like a major CME or a large asteroid hit) would have the impact to level the playing field. All we can do to avoid getting overwhelmed is to think and act local. Even then, it's pretty overwhelming.
Thanks for the weather update, Belgium. You and mrs.p, seem to be in critical areas right now, what with hyper-cold in Europe and earthquakes in So. Cal. Sending good thoughts....
I'm going to prepare a non-gluten cake today. Seems it is my birthday. Never had one on Super Bowl Sunday before. Ha!

Anonymous said...

Sats

Congrats Freeacre, another swing around the sun successfully completed.

Hi Mrs p. You are all shook up and we are all cool cats. Now there is showing my age!

rockpicker said...

Can't imagine living in Japan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKp5cA2sM28&feature=player_embedded#!

rockpicker said...

SATS; More 9/11 bad news for those of us seeking the truth. For co-conspirators in high places, it's good to have friends, (and relatives,) in high places as well.

Judge who heard this case is George Walker Bush's cousin. Gimme a break. Sounds like tribal court adjudicating a goat theft...

And State Secrets Priviledge is a 'stay out of jail' card all rogues must envy.

http://truthandshadows.wordpress.com/2012/02/04/sanctions-in-gallop-911-lawsuit-send-a-message-seek-justice-at-your-own-risk/

rockpicker said...

Morgellons videos. Best I can figure out, this is the first in the series.

http://www.youtube.com/user/skizitgesture

http://www.carnicominstitute.org/

Cliff is a hero!

murph said...

Hey RP,

If there is validity to the exposure and research on Morgellens it is just another piece of the war against humanity I reckon.

We're doomed I tell ya. sigh

rockpicker said...

They told William Wallace that.

rockpicker said...

Comment on Boiling Frogs Post:

Either we croak in unison, or we'll all croak separately.

rockpicker said...

Murph,

some appear to be absolutely rapturous over our prospects for doom.

http://www.henrymakow.com/satanist_insider_1.html

rockpicker said...

If we are truly doomed, maybe we should be listening to this.

http://doctorbonesandamyshow.blogspot.com/2012/01/how-to-perform-nerve-block.html

Anonymous said...

tribe, mf here, strange days indeed,
sats, the trip south turned out to be one of those episodes that happen to other people.
however i ended up being one of those other people.
my dodge van got the sniffles and blew its transmission all to hell and bled all over the highway.
this left me stranded in a little town located on a military base with no way out. no airport, no bus station, nothing, except for a shuttle which i located eventually by design i guess cause at some point the brain started to for some reason fold in upon itself.
to make a long assed story short i finally arrived back in montana leaving my van and most of the stuff in it in arizona.
one of the reasons i went south was to see how far i could get and providence allowed within spitting distance of the mexican border. nice...also seeking to hook up with a shaman of tribal origin and see if there was something that could be learned there, well in the course of the six days it took me to finally catch the last airplane (took more then one) i met a man who was a cab driver in phoenix whom upon later consideration after arriving home and ingesting a mountain of my own home grown i realized that the ''cab driver'' gave me information that somehow was purposefully kept from me until such time that i would become capable of receiving it.
along the way back after hitching rides with various shuttles,loaded with mexicans of whom spoke little of no english i discovered that also that the little companion i was traveling with ( a little gold colored chihuahua) and i were an object of discussion amongst these people we were traveling with. as we went from shuttle to shuttle the story of our plight went along with us.
arriving finally in phoenix at a motel 6 and finding it necessary to take my chihuahua to a vet and get it a doctors certificate of health i was put in a cab which was later i found was the shaman i was looking for, driving a cab for gods sake, he was tribal and i knew there was something different about him just by the way he talked and acted, as if he knew me, or as i found out later knew about me and the debacle i was involved in. so in the course of an entire day of having him drive me here and there around the city accumulating food and such, we talked and got to know each other, he asked me many questions about my life and spoke spanish replies even though i am not close to having a conversation in the language, i thought this was strange but just shrugged it off but like i said it all came together after i arrived back at my house.
the whole thing from the first shuttle to the ride in the cab with this shaman was a passing of tribal information about a fellow tribal brother from one to another.
in other words i was taken care of by these wonderful people of whom the spiritual connection was plain as day i later realized.
and the information that was given me is now apparent and is personal in nature but the message if you could call it that was that there is promise in the world of mankind and that the ball of evil that is so neatly curled up in the mind of the two-leggeds is being transformed into something strange and wonderful, and that my trip to that region was necessary and the blowing up of my van was also necessary just so i would eventually end up with what i went there for. and the mental state of shock and depression of being in that situation was also necessary to receive the message even though it made no sense at the time.
my friends i have never felt the love that can be imparted to another human being as i have from these tribal heart folks.
with that i close and wish to say to all of you that attend here at this most sacred place i feel so honored to be allowed to be here.
in love
aho
mf
wv decomesh , i guess so.

rockpicker said...

Shaman needs a shaman.

We need you.

Glad you are safe, and that it is all making sense.

Happy birthday, Freeacre. Another twirl around ol' Sol.

Anonymous said...

happy birthday sis,
boy they sure are coming around fast these days, time as we know it is coming to a standstill and wont that be a funny situation trying to catch a anything?

remember when we said '' will meet up with you on the next full moon and three sunsets.'' the skins will be scraped and ready to trade for that good dried salmon the nez perce bring to the sacred hot waters.
they have good horses to trade too, my old stallion is long in tooth and hoping for a young speed to swap with.

may the great spirit watch you good and have many more children even though you claim to be shy in that area we know better, your brothers and sisters that is.
serenity , peace and love may they stand at the door of your teepee and the campfire within drift its way through the smoke hole and find its way to the nostrils of our creator and the blessed sweetgrass lay beside your pillow with your man tonight.
aho
mf

freeacre said...

Thanks, Guys. I needed that. Sure would love to sit by the fire with you, pass the pipe, and drum to the stars.

Anonymous said...

from GD

Murph, seems the (recent?) Monsanto story illustrates the OP very well, check the date on the origin of this story, and the facts? therein ;)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/574245.stm

Regarding the OP, I think everyone tends to take in stuff that fits with their "world view" as generally correct, bar a few minor details, it takes a HELL of a LOT to change a persons world view more than a few degrees, have you ever convinced someone to do a 180 in their world view?

I have changed a few, but only by a few degrees at a time, never a full on 180.

MCRs book crossing the Rubicon was the seed that changed mine by a good 90 degrees!

So it comes down to "who/what" forms world views for individuals. That seems to be the name of the game for the PTB, either preventing people looking (bread n circuses) or spinning events so as to knock their views a few degrees, or in some cases (9/11?) forming a particular view from scratch, other cases (MSM?) by a few degrees to that desired.

Anonymous said...

i was thinking about what people think (if they think) in regard to the 99 and how we lay there on the ground with our necks stretched out just enough to facilitate the ''ones'' boot to fit snugly between our shoulder and our heads so as to be able to watch the make believe war called football on our wide screen high definition televisions.

Anonymous said...

continued
the point being, as we swell up in our superior moral stance and blame those cocksuckers for being what they are we should remember that they are there because we put them there.
without our glutinous appetite for distraction to take the place of the fact that we as humans for the most part are as slugs sliding along in our own slimy footprint clueless as to the nature of our own existence. and even though we are unaware of its makeup the fact of it is is that it is as a cocklebur
underlying and called the sub-conscience by some and makes itself known as a behavior controller as reactor to life's interaction situations.
this darkness surrounding the two-leggeds existence is filled with misery and pain weather admitted or not.

hence the massive need for diversion.
hollywood, television, sex, football, hell just name it it can and is a diversion most of the time i'd say.
not to throw out anything other then what it is, the blame game is just another one of the vast items on the diversion list of tasty possibilities.

and thanks to our own most excellent link finding warrior mr. picker and his ability to scout out the most amazing chunks of dazzling information one of those links made this one,(haha) realize that as shitty as it sounds we absolutely must reach a mental condition to where we can forgive the ''ones''
for what they are doing, sounds fucked up don't it?, however this is the case before us.
i hate to admit it but it says even in the bible ( and everyone knows by now how i love to burn those fucking things) that forgiveness of sins is necessary to enter the gates of heaven or some such shit, anyway thats right on.
this is a big problem Houston and i don't think it can be fixed with a roll of gray tape.
this i think is where mr. P comes in if he would be so kind to join in.
i think what he might say is is that these sons a bitches are a reflection of our lack of purity or some such, right p?
and that that lack? of so called purity must be understood before that forgiveness can be said within the bounds of being real rather then just a hog wallowing at the trough of self interest, playing the same old game hoping to fool someone. why? because no one it seems has done enough tapping on the shoulder of the one with its snout in the trough and saying i love you, wanta play?
we are all beggers one way or another at the trough of life, another one comes to mind, it is easier for a platypus to go through the eye of needle then it is for a ''one'' to get into heaven. brothers and sisters i hate to bring this up but our asses are in this same boat more or less.
purity is a concept along with fucked up language, i say fucked up because it is only an approximation of reality, it is NOT reality. reality stands outside these concepts and being as this is the only thing we know generation after generation i personally think it might be included in our very dna makeup.
this is a problem and must be understood also i think if we are to get our asses through the needle.
also i think that if it is understood there will be no need for the needle or any other such bullshit.
so is it possible to forgive without giving ourselfs a pat on the back for doing so. will this make us a better person when we look in the mirror?
sounds fucked up huh?
if we had longer arms could we give ourselfs bigger and longer lasting pats?
one that would last unto eternity?
what would jesus do? did jesus pat his own back when he forgave the down and out whore?
these are troubling questions i think and are serious even though they sound like bullshit,
but there is only so much space here to go on so i quit.
the end/beginning is very close and i'm sure most of us know this already.
the campfire burns bright and the red reflected faces setting around it burn bright also.
we are one, in the most ordinary way,
with much love
aho
mf

wv triper.. you got to be kidding

rockpicker said...

GameDog; I agree with you that Ruppert's book is an eye-opener. For me, Aaron Russo's movie "America: Freedom to Fascism" was another epiphany.

Articles and discussion on forums such as AlterNet also helped expand the general knowledge of what did and did not happen on 9/11, an unintended consequence of which was to catalyze a healthy skepticism among readers concerning ALL accounts of 'official history.'

Because of an expanding awareness, due primarily to lessons learned from our Viet Nam experience and the communications explosion facilitated by the Net, mankind world-wide stood up in protest against impending war, (Iraq). First time ever. That's significant. Didn't keep that war from happening, but people drew lines, chose sides and now, ten years down the road, can look back and determine how those choices have worked out for them.

It's clear to anyone looking that this latest aggression against Syria/Iran has more to do with shoring up western economies than spreading democracy or disarming rabid Mullahs.

Question is, are the 99% of the world as powerless as the 1% insists? Is this conflagration, brought to us by technology, our unavoidable fate? Must we accept the desolate future our bankster masters have contrived for us?

What sort of earth can the meek expect to inherit from the arrogant and the insane?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOLGnZhmfnM&feature=related

rockpicker said...

MF;

I suppose, on some level, the light warrior must embrace the darkness, accept its nature for what it is and appreciate that we all are embodiments of good and bad, black and white, night and day. (I love the slug analogy, btw.)

Yet, here we are imperfect in this world, where illicit missiles rain on innocents, unannounced and unreported, where beam weapons sever the nameless from their simple routines in single moments no moment will reverse.

Anonymous said...

from GD

RP "Question is, are the 99% of the world as powerless as the 1% insists?"

NO, but with a whole bunch of caveats ;`)

I don't pretend to have all the answers. My strategy is first to remove financial support, be as non compliant with the system as possible (without shooting off ones foot in the process). I have not paid income tax for some 8 yrs now, legally, this means dropping ones income level below the tax threshold (currently £5200 per person in the UK) I can only do this as I own my property and business outright, I am a director of a small company, so I get to choose how much I pay myself, how much I pay my wife.

Any profits get reinvested into the community business I direct, benefiting everyone in my small community (including us).

Any "movement" has to understand how money works, educate everyone on that point and I think the rest will follow (see how annoyed people get when they get the full implications of how money really works, how they've been ripped off their whole life etc. it's a great moral booster if you can get people to see it all)

Any "movement" has to start locally, Part of this is to become as self reliant as possible, food wise, fuel wise, community wide (no sponging off the state either, or they retain control of your life)

Any "movement" has to work with local government, and local law enforcement, it has to get the local "system" on side.

Local (debt free) money supply could be one angle fitting into the above too, but it need not be if enough local communities get it, if enough local communities networked together with support of local gov/law it could work.

Thks for the Webster Tarpley link, I can't understand why I never came across him before, read quite a lot today and there's not much we disagree on (he was a bit harsh on Ron Paul for e.g.) His missing link is the money supply, doesn't seem to put it out there, but then I've only spent a few hrs reading his stuff (can't find his 5 point plan he mentioned in the vid yet) I could be missing something, I'll read a lot more of his stuff in the coming days/weeks before I pass judgement on that.

how many of the 99% really get it? not many globally, or the "Arab spring" and to some extent "occupy US/UK/elsewhere" would have had a much different outcomes. Imagine if local gov/law was on side when occupy started for e.g?

saw this pic today :)

http://tinyurl.com/7vo72qb

Anonymous said...

GD again (insomnia due to meds)

I think TT with Permaculture is a good model, it covers most of my plan, if only they would highlight the problems with the money supply better, or give it a higher priority. Permacuture is starting down the road understanding the money issue, specially now they've got Nicole Foss down under and it's given prominence on the PRI.au blog, it was covered during my PDC in the UK but not to a deep enough level, 10% of the class got it I'd say. Trouble is with TT and PC to some extent is they're too tied into the Global Warming meme (lets not debate that, I know HSW (and others) is passionate against my opinion on AGW, I and understand I'm in a minority view, but I am passionate regarding PC regardless.

Why do I think being tied into the AGW meme a problem? Even if Co2 is an issue, the current multi decade ocean cycles mean at least 30yrs of cooling is upon us, the PTB can use this to undermine every environmental group tied to it, they can control the science either way with models, and drop environmental groups in the shit when they change meme, specially when everyone is freezing to death. Lets not try to debate that though, there ain't the space, as I said I know I'm in a minority view on that, I think it's a cover for energy decent, as depression is a cover for demand destruction on Peak Oil - and that "plateau" is a bit too regular for me too, I think TPTB agreed an arbitrary global production limit, enforced demand destruction, notice the US are using 3.5mln bpd less, thats some demand destruction for me, unless you think everyone is onboard agreeing to use less fuel!

I'm rambling, I'll shut up for now :)

Hotspringswizard said...

GD, you wrote " 30yrs of cooling is upon us ".

Meanwhile, the vast majority of the ice structures around the planet are melting, worldwide precitation of all types is increasing because earth's atmosphere is ( and has been ) getting warmer. A warmer world means more evaporation. What goes up will come back down. Water vapor is energy when it comes to weather which is and will continue to ramp up weather extremes of all types.

http://www.climatecentral.org/blogs/no-you-werent-hallucinating-january-was-really-warm?utm-source=feedburner&utm-medium=feed&utm-campaign=Feed%253A+climatecentral%252FdjOO+Climate+Central+-+Full+Feed

No, You Weren’t Hallucinating: January was Really Warm

....January, 2012 is the fourth warmest January since modern recordkeeping began in the late 1800's....

Bill McKibben gets the big picture here, but unfortunately despite his efforts humanity will just keep up the burning, with the greenhouse gas of various sorts spewing, and this article by McKibben goes along way to explaining the why's of this:

http://energybulletin.net/stories/2012-02-07/great-carbon-bubble-why-fossil-fuel-industry-fights-so-hard

The great carbon bubble: Why the fossil fuel industry fights so hard

....It was also a good day because of the striking way it could demonstrate to us just how much the planet has changed in 40 years. As Jeff Masters, the web’s most widely read meteorologist, explains, “The U.S. and Canada are virtually snow-free and cloud-free, which is extremely rare for a January day. The lack of snow in the mountains of the Western U.S. is particularly unusual. I doubt one could find a January day this cloud-free with so little snow on the ground throughout the entire satellite record, going back to the early 1960s.”....

And, frozen methane sources under the ocean are thawing out, bubbling up in increasing amounts, along with the gargantuan amounts of methane that will and is coming up from the thawing permafrost. All of this is happening now, and is speeding up.

Oh, and our Joshua trees are starting to bloom, a month early in this area, not because its so cold, but because it has been so warm.

Also people are consistently thown off by extreme cold and snow events, like just this last week that happened in Europe and Japan as one example. Yes there will be and increase in all sorts of extreme cold as well as hot weather, but its the worldwide averages decade to decade that count. Yearly snowfall that melts each season is not indicative of the real overall trend. Melting of the world solid ice structures is indicative of the true trend. Global temperature records fully support the increasing warmth, hence the melting of ice built up in past weather timeframes of colder climate.

Just something to consider GD :-) Hope you and yours are doing well where ever you are at. Is it somewhere in Europe?

Hotspringswizard said...

http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/

National Snow And Ice Data Center

....The growth rate for Arctic sea ice in January was the slowest in the satellite record....(2012)

Check out the Arctic sea ice extent graph covering 1979 to present about half way down the page. Note the blue trend line. That is happeing because the world is getting warmer, not colder. This type of melting is occuring in the vast majority of the worlds major ice structures.

Anonymous said...

.... he might say is is that these sons a bitches are a reflection of our lack of purity or some such, right p?

i spose there's a pure form of purity the likes of which you point out. but used in its generally accepted interpretation, anything but purity will do. like maybe cockleburs? 60 years ago my summer mornings were spent in the bean fields. in there by daylight. out by 11. and not cuz you were done. cuz you couldn't stand 1 minute more. what you didn't get to today would be there tomorrow. and the next.

object? rid the beanfields of cockleburs. a form of purification i 'spose now that you mention it.

the bastards are like cockroaches! one burr can lay dormant for 5 years or more. waiting. lurking. then it springs to life just when you think ya got em wiped out.

one mature plant goes thru the combine where the burs (thats scientific for seeds) get flung far and wide by that helicopter thingie hangin on the ass end designed to scatter the effluent. next season ya got a huge patch. season after, a field full of em.

unless you pull em. by hand. why? cuz if ya sprayed to kill em you killed the beans too.

so pix this... you and yer dad and yer sibs each take 2 rows. you walk. you pull. you walk. you pull. half mile later you turn around and come back on 2 new rows. and what's on everything? the dew. until the sun burns it off. by that time yer soaked and black as iowa top soil. the dew burns off but yer still soaked cuz yer sweating in the sun that keeps getting hotter, and hotter, and hotter. yer hands are red raw and stained olive green. yer wrists and arms are all scratched up. not yer legs though cuz you wore long pants and were glad for it. not because of the protection but because shorts were something your mom humg on ya when you were still a kid. you know, sissy stuff! but, no more. you knew you'd passed a milesone when your short pants went into the hand-me-down pile.

now, wadda ya spose ya think about in the midst of all that walkin and pullin and sweatin? ya think, damn, i sure wish somebody'd invent a spray that would kill cockleburs and leave the beans alone.

they didn't. what they did was invent a bean resistant to the spray. one spray. roundup. and we know about that chit. AND the GMO's. AND all the rest of the poison monsanto, et al has 'blessed' us with!

i guess if there's a moral to the story it'd be... be carefull what ya wish for. ya might see a reflection of it... p

Anonymous said...

speaking of the sun getting hotter and the thermonuclear war front getting hotter there's this latest from clif... http://www.halfpasthuman.com/lastdaysofyourlife.html

will it be? if not it won't be the first time he's missed and if so it won't be the first time he's hit. from what i read over on the bot forum he's shut down the servers and gone all-in on this one.

not long to wait one way or t'other. what was it the monkey said when he backed into the lawnmower? ... it won't be long now! ...p

rockpicker said...

What do you do when the kids find the matches?

http://www.theufochronicles.com/2012/02/ufos-activated-us-and-soviet-nuclear.html

Anonymous said...

Dang! According to Clif, we got 26 days till

TOTAL DOOM!

So finally -no more a-wait'in! The dommage is soon to arriv!

You know, when I was a kid, this dickhead of a dentist used me as a holding receptical for mercery and give me filling after filling, which is probably why I've got "dain brammage," (Nooo, it's NOT the beer), and he used to ask me if I wanted Novacaine and I always refused it. Why? Well, one: I hated not feeling my face for hours afterward and two: the pain's gonna come anyway once the shit wears off. So, at the ripe old age of 8, I figured I'll take the pain now and let the bastard see the pain and suffering he's inflicting on my little person.

Sooo... 26 days -hmmmm.... I best get me some more booze and frozen pizza -and of course, beer. We did place and order for a cargo bike, but they, a local company, don't seem to want to sell us one. Probably because we're infidels. I've seen signs around here which advertise articles for sale for LDS only. That's right. Last week I saw a van with "LDS Giftwraping" on it. Like, infidels can't or aren't qualified to giftwrap things for Mormons. Bloody hell!

Ok, 'nuf bitch'in.

Later -

Randy

Anonymous said...

GD to HSW: we can't debate this here, it's too complex for short posts and will just end up being a battle of links, if you really want to debate it, suggest another venue where we can continue over a longer time frame, last time I tired (against a physicist no less) it went on for months resulting in a tremendous time sink, result of that? a draw. Why? I'll quote the IPCC for the definitive answer...

Paragraph 5 section 14.2.2.2 of the IPCC’s 2007 TAR report says:

“In sum, a strategy must recognise what is possible. In climate research and modelling, we should recognise that we are dealing with a coupled non-linear chaotic system, and therefore that the long-term prediction of future climate states is not possible."

I'm not saying climate hasn't warmed since the end of the little ice age in 1850 (when current record began handy to show warming trends eh?), it has. Climate always changes because it always has and always will. read this for some insight on historical climate events and get some context:

http://www.breadandbutterscience.com/Weather.pdf

and Bill McKibben? Please read the OP and take note!

rockpicker said...

"American Medical Association Journal of Ethics

If progression of promising vaccines from the lab to the clinic is to remain unaffected and financial inducement is an ethically unacceptable solution to the recruitment shortage, other strategies need to be considered. Compulsory involvement in vaccine studies is one alternative solution that is not as outlandish as it might seem on first consideration. Many societies already mandate that citizens undertake activities for the good of society; in several European countries registration for organ-donation has switched from �opt-in� (the current U.S. system) to �opt-out� systems (in which those who do not specifically register as nondonors are presumed to consent to donation), and most societies expect citizens to undertake jury service when called upon. In these examples, the risks or inconvenience to an individual are usually limited and minor. Mandatory involvement in vaccine trials is therefore perhaps more akin to military conscription, a policy operating today in 66 countries. In both conscription and obligatory trial participation, individuals have little or no choice regarding involvement and face inherent risks over which they have no control, all for the greater good of society."

from:

http://www.brasschecktv.com/videos/vaccines/were-from-the-governmentand-were-here-to-help.html

The same mindset that rationalizes contamination of organic foods with neotame, and not labeling it. Funding chemtrail operations all over the western world while feigning ignorance of the phenomena, despite the physical evidence proving their guilt. They allow the introduction of 'synthia' into the Gulf of Mexico, but arrest us at gunpoint for drinking raw milk?

I'm with Game Dog. Refuse to comply.

Anonymous said...

GD on GMOs: What the industrialists fail to see is how we evolved. I mean from the first living organisms, bacteria, to more complex single cell creatures like amoebae.

All animals have evolved symbiotic relationships to get to where we are today, e.g. think of all the different gut bacteria, which we cannot survive without. (research David Phillip 1971 Dallas, aka "bubble boy")

How do bacteria breed? How do they exchange DNA, how do they evolve into separate species?

If anyone has read "Liaisons of life - from Hornworts to Hippos, how the unassuming microbe has driven evolution" by Tom Wakeford, they might see the dangers GMOs pose to us as a species.

All symbiotic bacteria (including our gut bacteria) actively participate in the development of the host organism (us) from it's birth. The molecular conversion that takes place seems very similar to the relationship of N. fixing bacteria in the root nodules in legumes.

Jeff Gordon, a molecular biologist at Washing ton University has focused on how this molecular chatter between microbes andour gut takes place. After 10 yrs research Gordons team found that the unspecialised cells linning the small intestine are destined to become any one of four different kinds of specialised cells, depending on the kind of bacteria they come into contact with during the guts development, certain kinds of bacteria induce these cells to produce fucose (a type of sugar), certain bacteria send out a signal that induces sugar production by the gut cells, but send it only when their level of sugar production is low.

It's a remarkable example of a fine-tuned symbiosis that is happening between thousands of different types of bacteria and our intestines. Dr's now take this relationship seriously (e.g. research how stomach ulcers are formed, and subsequently cured using different strains of bacteria) This research was the precursor to the recommendation that we eat lots of fibre in our diet (which helps prevent cancer) because fibre remains intact in our stomach arriving in the intestines intact, ripe for breakdown by our indigenous communities of invaluable microbial allies, the more fibre we have, the more opportunity the bugs have to recycle nutrients internally. Ouur gut bacteria produce butyrate fatty acids that suppress the growth of cancerous cells, so a high fibre diet helps prevent bowel cancer. As an aside processed foods contain chemicals that encourage the less helpful bacteria among our gut biota, these secrete sulphides which damage the cell lining in our guts.

So we have a situation where GMOs create a pathway that introduces foreign DNA into our guts, bacteria exchange DNA both from each other AND their environment.

Thousands of sheep, buffalo, and goats in India died after grazing on Bt cotton plants
Mice eating GM corn for the long term had fewer, and smaller, babies
More than half the babies of mother rats fed GM soy died within three weeks, and were smaller
Testicle cells of mice and rats on a GM soy change significantly
By the third generation, most GM soy-fed hamsters lost the ability to have babies
Rodents fed GM corn and soy showed immune system responses and signs of toxicity
Cooked GM soy contains as much as 7-times the amount of a known soy allergen
Soy allergies skyrocketed by 50% in the UK, soon after GM soy was introduced
The stomach lining of rats fed GM potatoes showed excessive cell growth, a condition that may lead to cancer.
Studies showed organ lesions, altered liver and pancreas cells, changed enzyme levels, etc.

see http://www.responsibletechnology.org/ for more info.

Just say NO to GMO.

Anonymous said...

bit more from GD: note how effects on births/babies are not seen until the 2nd or 3rd generation!

GMOs are a ticking time bomb for our species.

Anonymous said...

GD asks the clans opinion on
Geo-engineering

Anonymous said...

SATS

Hi mf, Just to remind you that I did thank you for the Chrissy pressy but I think you were up to your ass in gearboxes and back axles at the time so I don't know if you caught it. I am delighted the shaman was of help to you. Something I have noticed over the years is that wise people never take you to one side, put their arm around your shoulder and say “You sure have fucked up kid, this is where you are now at, these are your options but this is what you have to do to get out of the shit and back on track”. The normal response to this one is “You arrogant twat, who do you think you are to tell me?” So they don't do that. They speak in half truths or incomplete answers if you like which seem detached from the ongoing. Mainly they speak in questions without answers. Later you attach the overall tenor of their approach with the direction the questions were moving in and come up with the answers for yourself. To come up with such a profound answer yourself is a whole lot more powerful than having it handed to you on a plate where you are more likely to dismiss it than accept it. Anyway brother I am pleased you life is becoming less troubled, that can only be a good thing. Are you going to rescue the bus?

Re global warming which seems to have come full circle on the merry go round of favoured topics. I am nailing my colours to the mast and saying responsibility lies with the sun and not with mankind. It is also responsible for mankind not to make any problem worse than it is. When the bankers set up the IPCC they announced it was to be composed of 2500 eminent scientists of world stature. Problem was they couldn't find 2500 scientists in the world to agree with them, not even close, even with the money on the table. The 2500 is now composed of a scattering of researchers, administrators and other non non-academics. I think the site Upward Vector Publishing has it right. If you take all the reincarnation stuff with a pinch of salt. He has published Al Gores Temperature over time and CO2 over time graphs and put them on the same time axis (which AG did not do) and found that CO2 variations follow temperature variations and not the other way round. In other words the suns activity determines the earth's temperature and the earth's temperature determines the CO2 level.

Game Dog + Rp etc Today firemen are blocking the centre of Brussels today (Friday) with fire pumps – They are directing their hoses on parliament buildings and the police have barricaded roads with barbed wire against the firemen. Like the transport workers last week they are protesting cuts in benefits and the increase in pension age by two years. They make the point that fire fighting is such physically demanding job old men cannot do it.

The European Parliament is getting to the end of its rope with Greece, saying “They take our rescue money, promise much but deliver nothing”. People are on the streets in Athens today with numerous protesters saying “We are not putting our grandchildrens' lives in hock for the benefit of he bankers who got us into this situation in the first place”, whether that is true or not. They also say “ we will not be treated like a minor dependency by Merkel and Sarkozey and if that is the way it is then the rest of Europe can go and hang itself”.

Anonymous said...

SATS 2

Back in Belgium, in the meantime, the government set a hare going that this years deficit would rise above 3.0% so that they could vehemently deny it saying it would not rise above 2.8%. I think that any agreement to any deficit is an admission of failure. There again no deficit would mean cuts in something. People on the street are saying that if there is going to be hardship we are not the only ones it is going to apply to. Problem is that people are by and large, static whereas international business is – well international. Bakeart has just re-appropriated another of their factories from Gent to re-establish it in the Far East. Politicians must think this juggling act is worth it, I wouldn't want to do it. In the meantime I am keeping a watchful eye on Mf's shaman's light at the end of the tunnel, if we get through the next 25 days, that is.

murph said...

GD,

If you read much of the older SF, (70"s-80"s)a lot of them talk about geoengineering. It focused on using this science to make uninhabitable planets habitable by humans. In other words, the concept from a science perspective has been around quite a while.

If you squint your eyes just a bit and move to the side for a different look, the use of GMO's is just more of the same concept.

Any sort of these concepts contain all kinds of assumptions and do not bother too much with extreme consequences. This can be demonstrated over and over. Most of the consequences result in environmental problems that once degraded take many centuries to reverse even if if the will was there to do so.

I once, a bunch of years ago, heard Mike Savage on a radio program say that he couldn't understand why people were so enthralled with nature, who wants to camp out and look at trees and wild life anyway. lol. It appears to me there is a substantial amount of people that pretty much feel the same way. I periodically run into that kind of attitude.

What this means is that respect for or trying to live within the environmental restraints is not popular.

The article you cited explains well enough the problems with what we call "scientific research", questioning its validity and honesty.

I figure that we have have consequences show up over this that are going to be devastating in the long run.

rockpicker said...

Gamedog; Great piece on the gut bacteria/gmo connection. Real eye opener. I don't have the science background to know and explain why genetic modification is something to be wary of. I just have a 'gut feeling' that it's the wrong path for humankind to head down.

Check out Mr.2Tuff2's youtube channel. He's had to open a new channel because of persecution from YT. Here's a new piece he's highlighted on world weather and climate change.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Mr2Tuff2?feature=mhee#p/a/f/0/Fk_qJcdVdu4

murph said...

Montanna,

The substitution of chemicals for physical labor is much praised by all. It sure is more convenient to spray weeds than to pull them.

Locally, I am fighting what may be a losing battle with that concept. Area ranchers are much enamored with the idea of spraying Dow's Milestone on hay fields and pastures to eliminate all of broad leaf plants. Ignoring of course, that the chemicals in it can last for years in the soil, is accumulative in the muscle tissue of the animals that eat it, and is excreted in the stool and will migrate into ground and surface water. Many of these herbicides contain dioxins, one of the deadliest synthetic poisons ever made to date. While the level of dioxins may be low, they are accumulative and have a very long deterioration rate.

Remember my posting on technology as a convenience? It is going to come back and bite us most severely I figure.

Anonymous said...

Yes, good info on GM shit, gamedog. I was wondering if you know of a good book with a sizable amount of that material plus more on GMO shit? "Seeds of Destruction" perhaps?

Hey Murph, just read an article,

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2012/02/10-1

on Petr Kropotkin and his book "Mutual Aid" -have you delved into it and his scholarly stuff?

It sounded pretty interesting -and if you have, it looks like a good topic of a tread.?

-Randy

Anonymous said...

GD asks the clans opinion on Geo-engineering

GD... mine is that everyone needs to take the red pill on this one and ASAP. G-E, coupled with SYNTHETIC BIOLOGY via nano-tech, may very well be the greatest threat to life itself that we face. which is saying alot! the hole is already cataclysmic and the bunny has just gotten a good start on the diggin!!

your question tags back to that morgellons - "truely important website" - link RP posted above. in it jan smith sez morgies are the canary in the coal mine. unintended consequence? or did the anti-life nano-engineers count on this? in either event i think we're looking at 'damage control' in the villification of morgies. certainly not to minimize their suffering here but they appear to be the tip of the iceberg that is GE in cahoots with synthetic biology via nano-tech. there's a vid link there. click on it. its a one hour presentation by sophia smallstorm. she connects all the dots for ya. damn scary stuff!!

randy... seeds of dest? damn good one!! ...p

freeacre said...

The global warming issue is confusing due to contradictory research conclusions. Personally, I figure that both sides are right. The pollution in the air, if not primarily responsible for warming, is poisoning the air and acidifying the oceans, at the very least. Killing off the phytoplankton in the oceans is threatening to life on earth.
The Sun, getting warmer and brighter and shooting out more x-rays, gamma rays, etc due to the sun spot cycle or due to other outside influences, (Planet X, Nibiru, the cosmic magnetic cloud or whatever), is also heating up the earth and the other planets as well.
So, either way, we are more or less toast.
Have you read Charles Hugh Smith's post today? He writes about a startling decrease in oil consumption - like 40%! due to the lack of discretionary spending from the recession/depression, depending on individual circumstances.
Also, regarding the GM foods - Since I have been doing the Paleo Diet (no cereals, no gluten, no starchy veggies, no dairy, but lots of veggies, fruits, fish, and grass fed meats, I have been feeling incredibly better in the gut. I'm also taking digestive enzymes, magnesium citrate, Cynsulin, and other things for energy and digestive support. No more indigestion, pain is reduced, energy is up, and I'm fitting into pants that used to be too tight. Yea!
GD, herbs like Valerian are helpful for sleeping, but I have found that cannabis butter is even better. Just sayin'...

freeacre said...

p - I lost about a day and a half after watching Sophia Smallstorm's connect the dots video on chem trails, Morgellons, and exogenous nano infestation. Monstrous, if so.

rockpicker said...

P...you crack me up with the image of the bunny...

With lots of researchers now coming together from various angles and offering their perspectives, we're all starting to get a broad view of what is and has been going on.

Agrobacterium, gmos, Morgellons fibers, dessicated human red blood cells showing up in HEPA filters, they're all inter-related, and it appears aerosols have been used as one vectoring agent.

Clifford Carnicom has been a tireless investigator into the aerosol spraying for years and has discovered that bunny digs faster than we can keep up.

Check out his website:

http://www.carnicominstitute.org/

It was Clifford who first proposed the Morgellons fibers exhibit characteristics of all three forms of life: eucharia, archia and bacteria. Data banks with over 90,000 samples of fibers have been unable to positively identify the Morgellons fibers. Mighty scary chit...

rockpicker said...

Maybe we are all one big, (happy?,) dysfunctional family.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Mr2Tuff2?feature=mhee#p/a/f/2/X83N2GKXudY

Hotspringswizard said...

GD,your PDF, Marusek, retired Navy guy, I scanned through the info there and it presents ideas that are a corporation plunderer's dream of what they whould like the masses to believe. Stuff like Abiotic Oil and humans not affecting the biodiversity. The rest is the same. Where would I even start in refuting all the disinfo.

And your geoengineering article from Spinney, retired Airforce. Kind of a sneaky way to get in the AGW denial dig :-) Google his name. See anything there about his climate expertise?

So these are your climate science specialist?

Like you said GD, people many times just believe what they want to believe, but when it comes to the truth, all things are not equal in describing it :-)

Debating is such a merry go round, and I'm not much interested in it these days. AGW by the way is not a " passion " of mine, its just another one of the important threats facing humanity that I am interested in. I seek to learn about all the wide ranging issues that I have time for. In accordance with my interest in living a simple life, its just more efficient for me to concentrate on gathering and interpreting info, than spending a bunch of time debating people. That gives me more time to climb mountains, and swim in the creeks, stuff in the natural world I like to do :-)

Like today I hiked to Deep Creek Hot Springs and had a wonderful soak in a hot pool thats named the Womb. I was by myself in it for a couple of hours and enjoyed watching a pair of Ravens and their antics across the creek. On the way driving up there I passed by a fruit tree in full bloom ( pink petals ), and the Cottonwood trees along the creek are starting to sprout on this still winter day, Feb, 10th!

Don't take any of the above GD as me thinking anything ill of you. Its just that there is some stuff we don't agree on. I wish you all well here at the Trout Clan and check in regularly to read your thoughts and links :-)

murph said...

Randy,

I have only a passing acquaintance with Kropokin from a whole long time ago. Nice to see some info on him. His advocacy of anarchy is very similar to what I have seen in the modern concepts of it, namely self organization and cooperation.

Thanks for that link.

I have written in the past several posts that talked about anarchy. It is a concept concerning human organization that is so antagonistic to the elitists positions that it hasn't much traction. The idea that hierarchy is a necessity for societies prompts rejection of any concept that challenges that. Of course we need to examine just who benefits from that hierarchy.

Anonymous said...

SATS

For a look at how people interact together after some, never explained, post apocalyptic event, try The Time of the Wolf – 2003 by Michael Haneke. It is not a werewolf movie and Hollywood it is most definitely not. Michael Haneke seems to hold the nuclear trigger on human emotions. Some of his work is very bleak indeed. Time of the Wolf is more accessible and examines how people cope with their fears whilst realising the need for mutual cooperation. The drama is heightened by the complete lack of a score. The Road has been compared to this movie.

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