Saturday, September 22, 2012

photo credit to Wikia a Star Trek Federation site - just for fun.

Okay, it's the New World Order

by freeacre

I thought I’d share the mental process that murph and I have been exploring the last few evenings. After finally finishing assorted chores of the day, eating out of the garden and refrigerator, peeling the dogs off of us, etc. we sit down and continue catching up on “Sons of Anarchy” tv series from Netflix. By that time the medicine has kicked in, I am no longer in pain, and the mind is, shall we say, more flexible…

A couple of good friends of ours have really become agitated over our bringing to them what we know of the U.N.’s Agenda 21. They have investigated it even further than we have, read Rosa’s book, ordered more of them, and are sharing it with others. See her website if you haven’t already. So, our realization of how many levels of foresight and organization this Agenda entails is, at this point, almost mind-numbing. One might think that it is not possible to “save the world” as stated in Pollac’s article we spoke about in the last post’s comments, but in this case, I think they have at least significantly changed it.

The ideas of the Masterclass to save the world by creating a New World Order are coming to fruition. I am going to assume that somewhere back in the 50’s or so, some bright people figured it out that the resources of the earth are finite and that people are reproducing at an alarming rate. Within a couple of generations, big changes would have to be made, and unless there was a one world government to manage global issues, chaos would ensue and what needs to get done would not get done.

“What if this New World Order was a good thing?” I ask murph. After all, I used to love the idea of the United Nations. Put aside the archaic nationalistic bigotry and work together to save the world. Work globally on global problems. Give a voice to the unrepresented and the under-developed nations. End war. Teach co-operation and respect for each other’s views… What’s not to like?” Of course, I am being the Devil’s Advocate here.

“Yeah,” he says, “but when has any plan that TPTB have come up with not been for the short-term benefit of the elites? They do not and have not ever given a flying fuck about us – the wage earners, the working class, the poor, the “useless eaters,” as Kissinger calls us. We just don’t know. Maybe we are wrong. That is what is so damning about all the secrecy. We don’t know if they are trying to kill us or save us with chemical trails, or vaccines, or food or anything else. But, if it is for our benefit, why would they keep it a secret?”

To keep us going to work to fund the whole damn thing. Let’s face it. Even if you did come up with a New World Order plan, it would take a couple of generations to implement at the least. And, it would have to be funded by the biggest institutions humanity has – the banks and the corporations. Both of which would have to go global themselves. Well, hell, the ruling class and their banks and royals have always been global… So no global plan is going to work without them, they at least, would figure.

And, they couldn’t tell the unwashed masses because they might decide it wasn’t worth it to slave away at a job they hate only to find that the dream of working so that their children could have a better life is not going to happen. Instead, the working class and their progeny are going to be exploited like cattle in a feed lot to provide the elites with the money and the labor to build their “continuity of privilege” underground facilities, ultra-secret space programs, and island retreats to survive the carnage to come.

And, there would be carnage. Seven billion, or eleven by then, is too many to sustain. Of course, by now, the plan is not working out real well. Unanticipated problems are cropping up. What happens when the grid goes down and all the stored nuclear fuel rods continue to spew radioactivity for a million years? Oooops. Didn’t think of that one…

Well, let’s leave that alone for now. What about the divisive Jehova religions – Muslims, Jews, and Christians? This one jealous, monotheistic godhead who gives dominion over all the earth and Her animals and plants is the primary cause of the earth’s problems. Kick them to the curb. Start an unending war and let them kill each other off. Let their children figure out what idiots their parents have been and reject their established religions as being destructive and divisive and ruinous. Give them the tools to talk amongst themselves and run an endgame around the established fundamentalists. Actually, I sorta like that part, but that’s me…

One of the goals for the New World Order is the establishment of the order without the pesky ideals of democracy, representative government, and the clinging to nationalism. Some shock and awe events such as global plagues, EMP attacks that take out the grid, etc. might do the trick. Of course, it might not. The troublesome minions aren’t yet as stupid as the elites would prefer. In fact, they probably have more skills than the elites do, so it will probably be a real dog fight during the End Times. That’s where inadequate models don’t work over the long run. It’s happened before when the Christian church took over the western world and we fell into the Dark Ages of ignorance, filth, torture, and servitude. That’s when the monks created the monasteries, copied books and waited it out.

But, even if some of the elites know that this plan isn’t going to work as planned, it’s too late to stop it now. The incredible momentum has already been put in motion. Its relentless course has been set.

No matter what the world looks like when the elites finally crawl out from their bunkers, their children will undoubtedly look upon them with disdain. They will know them for the evil, greedy, short-sighted soulless bastards that they are. So, within another generation or two, they will make a new plan for themselves.

By then, there will have been a huge reduction in population as well as a new paradigm constructed that embraces the almost lost wonders of the natural world. So maybe in the long run, the New World Order isn’t so bad after all.
Just sayin’ …

Perhaps the best thing that we can do to cope with what we cannot control is to live the best life we can muster that continues the values we want to keep. Also, to honor this goofy condition we find ourselves in as human beings within the matrix of this planet, and enjoy it and be grateful as long as it lasts.


rockpicker said...

Can't think of a better way to complement your excellent post, freeacre, than to pass along this link.

Anonymous said...

FA… haven’t read the post yet. but did read yer last 3 comments on the last one.

the 1st one is… well, lemme put it this way… i luv the way yer mind works! comments like that are a light in the darkness.

the second? well, i’d vote for ya!

and the third? if you've really fixed it i’ll kiss ya! ...p

Anonymous said...



Anonymous said...

FA... just finished your post. i luv the way yer mind works! ... p

freeacre said...

Holy Cow, Rockpicker! I had read of the study, but the video is jaw-dropping!! I'm going to e-mail it to everyone I know. If the world puts a moratorium on American corn and soy - that would probably crash our economy (as shaky as it is). And, the world would hate us even more than they already do.
I've also read lately about studies that indicate that rice in contaminated with arsenic and our wheat was changed years ago. Not GMO, but changed to a different strain or something that makes us fat and gives us diabetes, etc. Of course, they feed the corn and soy to the beef that we eat, and it goes into almost everything else, too. No wonder so many people are sick and Big Pharma is getting richer by the minute. Remember "Children of Men"? Children are no longer born because of world-wide ailment that sterilizes just about everyone? These fuckers are serious.
I bet the NWO didn't think that this would get out to the public. Another fuckup.

P - thanx. I like the way your mind works, too. We should tell stories and write science fiction books about memories of when we were free. What it was like. The kids today don't even know.

And YEA! I did fix the damn thing!!

freeacre said...

... murph helped. lol

rockpicker said...

Empathy is not cerebral.

rockpicker said...

This link offers a really great film on anti-fluoridation.

rockpicker said...

And this looks like a good site to bookmark, too.

Hotspringswizard said...
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Hotspringswizard said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Hotspringswizard said...

Freeacre, your last paragraph, I like it and yeah, that is something we can do :-)

Well its late and I just got back a while ago from a nice hike to Deep Creek and a relaxing soak at Ori Hotspring, the pool at 102 degrees, and I drank alot of its pristine source water too. They say there is Lithium in the spring waters in that area, so maybe it has made my mind more " flexible " like Freeacres potion does for her :-)

So I best get off to bed, but before I do, I remember in the last thread RP's link to the OL Alien preperation handbook, and RP citing it for " stirring the pot " purposes :-)

Well I wonder if this will just stir the pot, or perhaps more likely, blow it to smithereens instead :-) When it comes to Chemtrails, I'm not at all buyin what its proponents ( including my brother ) are saying about the whole thing. I see holes, misconceptions and great exagerations all over the place in the many things proposed. I am one who was in a unique position to see my brothers " assumptions " early on, transform themselves into absolute " certitudes ", as is the manner he expresses them today for the most part.

One thing he commonly does more recently is to end various paragraphs of his pronouncments with a one word sentence " Period. ", which is his way of saying ( IMO ), my view is absolutely right, don't bother questioning me because I know what I'm talking about and you don't, PERIOD! Does that sound arrogant to you? It does to me. Its akin to the kind of absolute certainty you might hear in pious dogmatic evangalizing on the myriad subjects people do express themselves, religious or otherwise. Example " The earth is 6,000 years old, period! ".

So, here is a de-bunking of 10 bullet points Dane put out on SAG/SRM, and the info present by the debunker Jay Reynolds covers many of the very questions I have had myself ( certainly not the only ones ) about the various subjects on the Chemtrail issue. Now as I was routinely graced with endless info on this Chemtrail issue in e-mails from my brother, also hearing all of the latest for years on the same from him, I am not interested in going on and on about this subject any more than on any other we discuss here, but to put it most simply, I think this is one of those many things in life where folks take off with ideas and viewpoints, and transform the whole thing into something it very much is not. Here is that debunking and I think Jay Reynolds makes very good points:

Oh, an sorrow for the previous two deleted post, I'm tired and old, thats my story :-)

murph said...


I read that debunking site. Interesting.

Personally I have read really dire warning by scientists concerning the methane release in the oceans and tundra. Unfortunately I haven't bookmarked or saved the articles so re-finding them would take more time than I currently have.

I have several problems with the debunking article due to its selective criticism.

Now this is not to say that there are not problems with the geo-engineering assumptions that are being widely circulated.

In my own case, I have some data of my own that indicates there is a problem with aerosol spraying. My data is not strictly scientific nor is it conclusive, more like a 3rd person testimony. Which neither negates it nor confirms the conclusions.

Here are my observations; the last two summers (before this one that is ending) we had very late springs that were wet and cold. During those springs and summers we observed chemtrails that obscured the sun nearly every day, at least 70% of the days. Both of those summers had noticeable lower daytime temps. I also had noticeable fertility problems with my rabbits and noticeable poor garden and greenhouse growth from summers past. This year, we have had virtually none of the heavy chem spraying past early spring (which by the way was also chilly and wet). This year, plant growth was much more prolific in the garden and greenhouse, and fertility of the rabbits is up over the last two years.

Now, I know this has no scientific validation, and maybe my observations are just flat out inaccurate. There are also other possible explanations for my observations that have nothing to do with aerosol spraying. However, I think there are several very big problems with the debunking sites assertions also. Here again is another example of the “scientific debate” being perpetuated on a number of issues, who funded the debate and who benefits from the conclusions.

I would agree with you over this ending a sentence with “period”. Sounds arrogant and childish to me also. However, that does not negate his information and conclusions, does it?

I agree with you that beating this subject to death makes no sense. There are enough folks out there trying to determine what is happening and the truth of events in this context that further speculation by us becomes a mute point.

Hotspringswizard said...

I think the top, most important beginning premis that Chemtrail proponents need you to buy, is that all of the plane trails people see ( and the myriad cloud forms that they do morph into ), all over the world, are Chemical trails because the normal combustion components produced by the burning of fuels in high level aircraft, does not produce trails that will last for more than a minute for the most part.

I think that this premis is just flat out false. Plane trails have been around ever since ( starting back in the late WW2 era ) high altitude bombers, and the very first jets began to reach high enough in the atmosphere such that their engine combustion products could form. There is plenty of information in the form of pictures that show that the plane trails have been around ever since then, of course in increasing abundance because of the drastically increasing amount of air traffic that has grown up worldwide since WW2. I remember seeing the long lasting plane trail throughout my childhood growing up when I first was old enough to notice them till now.

Also plane trails need roughly below minus 40 degrees to form, and important too, enough moisture present in the air mass too. I have watched the plane trails closely thoughout recent years because of my brothers activism the subject, and have compared their appearance to high resolution water vapor images.

When the high altitude regions where th planes fly is in a dry air mass, the trails do not form, but when the moisture starts increasing, then they begin to show up. Also in the summer you don't see them as much and I think this is due to the upper level air masses being dryer then, and as importantly, warmer, above the minus 40 degree rough line needed for their formation.

Of course people around the world are seeing plane trails all over, because of the above mentioned conditions that make them form, and the fact is that the planes all produce combustion particulates that precipitate this normal occurance of trails, given the needed atmosperic conditons.

I think as a side note to, that planes more so in recent times as compared to many decades ago do have the capability of flying higher in general as in commercial traffic than they used to, creating even more trails because they fly in the right condition more often.

But, if people just beleive in the initial critical false premis that planes do not produce trails except for very short in distance, and short lived ones, this allows a pivotal aspect of their " house of cards " argument to continue on to all of the other notions and misconception that follow.


Hotspringswizard said...

Think about it, Chemtrail proponents propose you have Chemtrails occuring all over the world all the time, this occurring across the whole planet with all of the countries on all continents and islands involved in this massive worldwide program where all these planes have spray systems with substance stored in containers on all of them for the spraying ( which has to be gargantuan quantities in total ), including all of the associated infrastructure, materials, manpower that would be needed to run a system that vast.

So, does that make sense to you? Or, does it make more sense that all of the planes flying at high altitudes all over the world, doing whatever normal activities they are involved with in the area, are producing just regular combustion products that given the right coditions which are very common for high flying aircraft, will produce a natural reaction of the engine combustion components burned interacting with the atmospheric condions needed of cold temps and moisture.

I've many times been flying places in jets and have seen either as a shadow on clouds below, or looking out the window towards the back of the jet I was in as it was turning one way or another, that it was leaving at times a long lasting trails. I've seen many times what were clearly commercial jets flying past leaving long lasting trails too. Its alot differant when your 30,000 to 40,000 feet up seeing this happen right in front of you.

And, you realy think that in such a proposed worldwide gargantuan system as such is impliead by Chemtrail activist, that there would not be vast amounts of people in the huge numbers of folks needed to support it, that would not be coming out of the wood work in very large numbers as whistleblowers because they where not OK with chemicals being sprayed out of planes right over their heads, and the heads of their extended families?

The Chemtrail activist only offer up a testomonial here and there, someone who saw a " spray system " on a plane, a guy who used to work for the military, etc, etc, just scattered so called " reports " like that.

People all through the ages however have believed and misconceived a cornucopia of differant errant things. Folks get set on this belief or another, and it will not matter what argument, what information you present, you will not make any head way whatsover in most cases in swaying them from their set in stone postions. Period!

Hotspringswizard said...

Oh and Murph, we are constantly " speculating " on stuff here :-) But I know what you mean, its gets old speculating, arguing points on the same thing, on and on. In this case I brought up the Chemtrail issue for the purpose of citing, which I have not done so before, that I do not give creedance to a whole lot of the claims that are made about these supposed " spray programs ".

murph said...


I'm confused. Are you maintaining that there is no such thing as high altitude spraying for any reason?

All that you are objecting to has some merit, BUT when I see these trails in the morning and I can observe them spread from horizon to horizon and stay there all day, I just don't buy that they are normal jet trails. Do You?

Hotspringswizard said...

Murph. I do think over the decades there have been various weather control experimentation measures engaged in by differant countries, but I think also that this has been on the size of very local level projects, with localized affects.

Yes I am of the opinion that what you are seeing in plane trails, basically all of them, and not every singe trail in the whole wide world as that would be impossible for me to say of course, that their myriad manifestations like on certain days having their longer lasting qualities to the extent of spreading out and eventually covering the skies in a veil of haze is just a natural occurance of the high altitude planes engine combustion products interacting with the needed high altitude atmospheric conditions, being cold enough combined with the needed moisture levels.

I'm just scratching the surface here with the various points I could make that to my mind bolster the argument against the validity of a worldwide massive ongoing spray program as it relates to the trails everyone sees regularly, IMO.

But for ones like my brother who are quite obsessively convinced of their validity, I have seen in actual practice that alternative points of view on this for such people does not sway their opinions at all. Actually I think in my brothers case alternative opinions on this have made him double down and become even more obsessive and aggressive about his views on this subject.

Hotspringswizard said...

Here is something kinda cool, I contacted by e-mail that Dave Pollard guy who did that article I gave the link for about how we can't save the world, and gave him my thumbs up on his effort in the missive and he replied back to me in an e-mail of thanks :-)

rockpicker said...

Anyone care to explain this?

Hotspringswizard said...

So RP, you have this jet being photographed from above, and clearly from the commentary those doing the video are Chemtrail believers, hence why they automatically assume that this jet is turning on, and turning off its chemtrail spray device. Buy the way, the hard rock music is for what purpose? Maybe, to make you feel really cool when your looking at a supposed Chemtrail, catching the spray perps red handed!

Anyone who takes note of plane trails, will also easily see the aspect of them at differant times of exibiting the characteristic of starting, then stopping, starting again further down the line, in irregular patterns, and all of this coming from the flight path of a single high altitude plane. Now the pattern, irregular spread of the starts and stops, and even the thickness of the trail will vary in all manner of ways, I've looked them alot, and there is no consistency to them in reference to this starting and stopping.

I asked Dane, what is your explanation for this attribute seen commonly in the trails? Do you think someone in the plane has some switch and is just turning the supposed spray equipment on and off again, in an irregular pattern?

As a side note in the video RP linked to, you can see the the trail disappears and re-appears in an irregular manner. So think about this, if the trail is coming from equipment with material fed to knozzles, why wouldn't stopping, and starting be automatic. Like if you have a hose under water presssure with a spray knozzle on it, when you pull the handle it sprays, and when you let it go it stops. I would logically think that when the switch was flipped the spray would come on immedieatly, and then go off right away when switched off.

But back to Danes explanation to me at that time concerning my questions. He basically indicated that he did not know, and that it could be people on the ground controlling the stopping and starting of the trails. And as for its purpose for starting and stopping irregularly, he had no answer for that.

Now, recently I viewed the latest Chemtrail DVD with Dane, Mike Murphy and others featured in it, and what do you know, I see they have concocted a brand new " reason " for the plane trail starting and stopping. Obviously spray trail starts and stops is a glaring inconsistency that they had to deal with in some fashion.

So, their explanation now is something along the lines of the planes leaving the start and stop trail are " marking " those areas as some aspect of the greater spraying project, then follow up spray planes use this " marking " for some purpose which is unexplained in the video best I can tell. You can view the vid and hear the exact way they put.

You see this explanation creates the idea that the spotty irregular trails are somehow part of the greater plan of just how they do the spraying. With this explanation made, their hope I think is to cool the questions about this inconsistency, which could allow them to set that topic aside, away from further lime light and move on to whatever else they wish to focus on.

But I, like I said have paid alot of attention to the trails for some time now in our area and other places I go, and have compared them to water vapor images to see how well the trails corolate to the introduction into the area of more moist uppper atmosphere air, and, what I have witnessed is no trails when the air is very dry, and then trails by varying extents starting to show up as the moisture levels increase.


Hotspringswizard said...

Other atmospheric conditions also act to accentuate the trials, make them last longer, spreading them out, forming all sorts of patterns, etc. I can see a moist plume, push of air coming into area area and then when I roughly calculate it is close enough that its off to the horizen where I could see whats going on the trails start to show up. Now that is also dependent on the required temperature level in the upper air levels at the same time.

The atmosphere levels of moisture and temperature are not some predictable homogenus sameness. So a high altitude plan flying across the skies above you will be passing through various levels of moisture, and also varying temperature levels.

The irregular stop and start trails of varying densities occur as the plane passes through successive areas in which the localized affect is sometimes conducive to trail formation, and not conducive at other times. This is not spray ( IMO ) caused by some controller turning a spray system on and off again in irregular patterns. There are many variations to this type of attribute of spotty trails.

I'll cite an example, I remember on instance were my family and I were visiting our property up north in North Cal, and on the day we left it was very clear but way south you could see some upper level clouds which thoughout the day were gradually working their way north to Northern Cal.

My brother said something like look at the clouds, their starting their spraying, working their way north. Well as we traveled south we eventually came to the edge of these northward moving clouds and there were past that point various plane trails to be seen.

Well when I got home I pulled up the water vapor image for that day and sure enough, as I expected there was large front, moisture plume moving northward completly consistent with what the clouds and plane trails were doing were doing, as far as showing up, and beyond this rather distinct boundry was very dry air on the north side towards North Cal.

There were no planes just starting to " spray ". It wasn't a case that there were not planes flying in North Cal ( where no trails were seen ) as opposed to South Cal ( where trails were showing up ). It was just that one of the needed ingredients for the plane trails was missing in the north, and was present in the south.

Also that same day as we were passing under the very broad dry/moist air boudry, I could see instances of planes flying north leaving trails, planes that were in the moist side of the boudry, and then when these planes starting passing into the dry air side their trails started to wane, then disappeared completely, and quickly as they hit the very dry clear blue sky air.

So are we realy expected to assume in this case that these planes all decided to turn their " spray " equipment off at the same time just when they hit the dry air mass?

I know what a Chemtrail true believer might say, something like they just wanted to hide their trails in the clouds that were south of this boudry. Those are the types of non-sensical explanations that they come up with consistently, like this new one talked about above, that the spotty trails are purposefull marking of the skies.

Now the conditions on that day I observed above where quite distinct as far as atmospheric boundries which allowed you to see much more clearly what was going on between to distinct air masses, dry on one side and moist on the other. Most of the time the atmosphere varies much more causing much more complicated patterns and circumstances in the trails appearance, spread, etc.

Hotspringswizard said...

If you really want to see whats happening in the larger atmosphere of large areas, like say in our part of the world, I recommend that you go here which I regularly do, basically every day:

At that site are links to a number of satellite images. I refer to and use mostly the " West - Pacific Ocean " set, which has visible, infrared and water vapor images available. The visible one will just be black at night of course.

I reference these images since they show a large area on the side of the globe where I live. I can see rather easily what types of weather or weather systems will be affecting us, or the west coast in general.

All three type of the satellite images can be put into loops of them going back into the past up to 30 loops. I generally do 10 loops unless I want to look further back for something. If you look regularly at the visible satelite image, what do you see everyday. I see all the variations of weather that occur in the images. I will tell you there are some days very seldom when you can pick out large expanded plane trails over the Pacific, that is when the air mass is moist. You will not see them when the air is dry over the ocean.

You can also put your cursor on the large still visible image thats pulled up when you click on the smaller initial thumbnail of it, and when you click a much closer and more detailed image appears of that specific area around your cursor. Great for getting a much better look at places of interest, anomolies in the clouds, fire clouds, thunderstorms, and even plane trails which is hardly ever, etc. What you are seeing is the Big Picture, and not the visualized terrible view from a Chemtrail proponents viewpoint of a drastically altered artificial nightmare of an ariel landscape. I just simple see normal types of clouds moving about, in all their many forms. Now the issue of Climate Change altering cloud movement and patterns, this is a seperate topic that I'm not addressing here.

Also I use just as much the water vapor image which when you understand how it works allows you to see in great detail the movements of the air masses, everything from very dry to tropical levels of moisture, and even identify where storms and rain are likely to be occurring. This is the one I have been folling more closely this last few years to see the distinct relationship between the plane trails showing up and moisture levels in the atmosphere.

Its this aspect of relationship between these two things, trails and moisture that shows this latest proposel in the DVD " Why in the world are they spraying " that trail appearance and disappearance is a controlled thing, and as a supposed " marking " tool for the greater spray program, is foolish nonsense, a lame attempt to side step this glaring inconsistency in the greater Chemtrail narrative.

There is no on and off switch IMO, because the planes we see above us don't have spray equipment. The planes normal engine contrails appear and disappear because of atmospheric conditions, specifically as it relates to moisture, or temperature as the case may be, and clearly in a vastly complex, and continually changing sytem like climate, the observed variances will be quite variable.

murph said...


You explanation is neither complete (ignoring evidence and cherry picking data) nor compelling for me. Just too much contrary data. I'm not convinced.

I spent 4 yrs in the AF and never once observed anything in contrails like I have seen over the last years. Knew guys that worked in specialized departments of the AF that were tasked with plotting and analyzing jet trails. One of them retired here. He completely contradicts your evidence.

Reckon we just will have to disagree on this and maybe some other issues.

Hotspringswizard said...

Murph, what is ever " complete ", in an infinite world :-) So if planes were, according to what you seem to think, before these trails just " all showed up " in a big way, not leaving trails or hardly at all, then your trying to tell me that at the time these plane trails suddenly appeared in greatly expanded numbers on the scene that the countless people involved in high flight aviation would not be coming out of the wood work asking questions as to why their planes, or other planes of all sorts where suddenly issueing big white plumes behind them?

You think they they would just ignore and think it insignificant that their planes that before left no trails, where now doing so in a very big and noticeable way? You don't think they would be highly concerned that they were seeing these trails coming out of their planes, or a dramatic increase in trails from other aircraft all over the place and be asking alot of questions as to what the heck is going on? That really makes sense to you? Maybe its because the planes always left trails, and their increase in amount was completely consistent with expande air travel, and planes flying higher, so there was nothing to sensible alarm all of these aviator pilots world wide.

Its like Jay in the debunking article said, something like, you will never win an argument with a ardent chemtrail believer. I've dealt with my brother for years and I know this well enough.

Dane now states that ALL of earth's weather/climate/clouds is artificial because of this world wide ongoing spray program he believes in and is thorougly obsessed about. And I don't mean obsessed in a good way. In his view, and he has said it to me before on many occasion, this issue, ( that has taken over his life like a cancer ) is by far, most important issue facing humanity, and that people should spend their time in trying to stop the spray programs only, because if they can't be stopped everything gets destroyed, humans, the ecosystem, etc, etc. His mind is clearly not in a good place. Old friends of his will tell you, the Dane we used to know, is gone.

In my very last conversation with him back in January, he was repeating for the umteenth time how every cloud that day in the sky above his area was artificial caused by trails. I had learned up to that point that trying to put my alternative POV across on this, always lead to a much more charged and heated discussion so I just got to the point where I pretty much only listened.

But on that occasion I did speak up and told him there was no possible way he could know that of the clouds in his area, from horizen to horizen where " artificial ". He was making his own huge assumption, and considering it as fact, which is the same as he does consistently in his various ideas on this spray program issue. During this conversation he was cussing at a couple of points because thats just how incensed he gets these days. Thats the last time I talked to him.

Dane ( and all chemtrail believers ) will continue to try and stop, what isn't happening, so he/they will never win. As long as planes are flying in the high atmosphere where its cold enough and there is moisture, there will be trails. The only way the trails will diminish is when high altitude plane flight wanes as the worlds societies succumb to resource restrictions. I've said what I wanted to say on this subject.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

"Perhaps the best thing that we can do to cope with what we cannot control is to live the best life we can muster that continues the values we want to keep. Also, to honor this goofy condition we find ourselves in as human beings within the matrix of this planet, and enjoy it and be grateful as long as it lasts. "

-Good advice, FA. As individuals I really don't think we really can't do a whole lot. Just maintaining what we have is hard enough. As a collective, well, we could, maybe stop or slow down the elites agenda, but, getting a good many humans together to do one thing on a massive scale probably won't happen. We're too divided, scattered and there's no Martin Luthor King to rally around -and even if there was, the PTB would destroy/kill 'em pretty quik-like before he/she couild excite the unwashed masses.

What is suprising to me is that it seems like all of the world's leaders, as in Presidents, PM's and such are ALL on message. Every country's government is behaving like the US and UK with the militarization of the police, illegal survailance, jailing protesters, etc. It's like there's a "Syth Lord" giving commands via holigram to all of these "elected" henchmen.
Kinda creepy, really.

But, I think it's a time to lay low as the same time keeping vigilant. Reminds me of what Steve Buscemi said in "Armageddon" - "It's time to embrace the horror! Look, we've got front row tickets to the end of the earth!"


freeacre said...

"Kinda creepy, really.."

Yeah. Everything is all twisted.Thought getting these guys all together at the UN and the IMF, etc. would lead to world peace and prosperity. But, it became unholy alliances as they turned to the Dark Side. Feels almost Medieval.

Pie, anybody?

rockpicker said...

This account appeared on Steve Quayle's Alerts today.

murph said...


Whew, trying to defend a family with a .380 pistol? That is insane in itself.

I wonder what would have happened if they had fired a hunting rifle at whoever it was behind the tree? Mass assault on the house? If that was a true story it sure has some creepy overtones.

Hotspringswizard said...

Last night I talked for about two hours on the phone with Jay Reynolds, the man who did the de-bunking of my brother's chemtrail info. He was very generous with his time and answered at length any questions I had for him. He also filled me in on so many other interesting details on what has gone on with these beliefs and what they describe over the years. He confirmed that the various points I cited here at TCC recently, my observations about these trails, were accurate.

The people as contributors to the Meta Bunk and Contrail science site have sent their information to Dane, Mauro and Mike Murphy, and have challenged them to do a debate in whatever venue about this issue on a number of occasions, and all they have gotten back is nasty letters and an ignoring of their debate challenge.

If Dane, Mauro, and Mike Murphy are so adamately sure about the validity of their info, wouldn't you think they would jump at the chance for a debate, and the exposure it would bring, just like how they seek exposure with their DVD's? Wouldn't that be a great opportunity to " expose " those who say their chemtrail information is erroneous? They are always saying how greatly important it is for people to become aware of this, according to their perception and beliefs, most dire danger to humanity that ever was.

I think its very telling that they have avoided a chance to debate this. I think its because they know, even though they would never admit it, that instead of showing themselves and their info to be sensible and realistically alarming, in a debate with people like those at the Meta Bunk site their info would be shown to be non-sensical and without merit.

Chemtrail believers will keep chasing this phantom of the dangerous sky clouds, and I know for the most ardent believers like my brother, what I've mentioned above, or nothing else will ever sway them from their belief.

murph said...


ENOUGH ALREADY!! Your sounding just like the debunkers of the 9-11 investigators that say the government investigation was bull shit.

I have and I imagine most of the readers have looked at your sites "debunking" chem trails. Your getting a tad personal and insulting over this issue and I'm really starting to resent your tone. I understand your position, I disagree with it. Your assumptions I find irritating.

Your disagreement with your brother is carrying over to this site. You have talked about it multiple times and it sure appears to me that you are obsessed with proving him wrong. I understand you want to convince us of your position. I'm not entirely sure why other than to prove you are right. Personally, has to be more real data and less assumptions for me to get on that wagon.

rockpicker said...

Also, I find it interesting both Reynolds and Hotsprings expect the victim to provide a motivation for the attack as a condition for accepting the victim's account of the attack. Seems a medieval tactic.

Hotspringswizard said...

Murph, Give me a break. This is the one and only thread I have ever brought up my personal views in any depth about Chemtrails in the few years or so I have commented here, and you call that obsession, really? In fact, the few post I did in this thread is the most I ever gave my opinion on that subject ever at any blog.

Many of you on the other hand bring up comments about Chemtrails fairly regularly, so maybe you are the ones who are obsessed with this issue by your definition. My brother just happens to be one of the most notable go to guys in the Chemtrail arena, so of course he is going to be part of my discussion of this topic.

I just cited some info, and some of my observations about this Chemtrails stuff in my postings. But you know what, I knew from the start how this would go, since me telling certain things about my views that the whole Chemtrail thing is bogus as its related to the idea that its some grand worldwide, earth destroying, humanity ending danger, saying that kind of thing here at TCC, where most of you believe in it would illicit a response just like what you did Murph in your last post.

The things I mentioned in my posting in this thread are about seeking truth, citing what I think is true, IMO, as I always have done. I mentioned Dane, Mike Murphy, and Mauro since they seem to be the main players in it these days. You want to talk assumptions Murph, the Chemtrail believers are making grandiose assumptions and calling it fact, all the time. No Murph, I never expected to change any of you.

By the way, I am on the side of the 9-11 truthers, engineers and all who have brought out great and solid information to expose that lie, why, because that information makes sense, and Chemtrail stuff does not. And you know what Murph, if I thought the government was right about their explanation of 9-11 and did some lengthy post describing my position here at TCC, you would have pounced on me just the same as you did concerning my views about Chemtrails, why, because your not so much about alternative views as you think you are.

RP, I have no idea what your talking about in your last short post, but you know what, it doesn't matter at this point.

So much for pass the talking stick and speak your mind.

Anonymous said...

Whoa- the lastest from Paul Craig Roberts is a goodie -

-especially the LAST sentence.

- Randy

rockpicker said...


I owe you an apology. What you said in your comments, explicit or implied, is not what I inferred. My bad.

Here's a short film you may or may not be aware of. What's Reynolds got to say about Carnicom?

rockpicker said...


That piece I posted yesterday requires a reference point, which appeared in Quayle's alerts about three weeks ago now.

Someone from Kalispell wrote in and told Quayle that a contingent of North Com was bivouacked at the old Columbia Falls aluminum smelter. This person apparently went into the area and asked soldiers there what was up. He was told they were there to train law enforcement and firemen to assist the military in rounding up suspected terrorists.

Though the author of yesterday's post did not mention where she was coming from, I took it to be the upper Flathead Valley, as there are several 'cities' close to one another there, as per the electrical outage report, and, Stewart Rhoades, founder of Oathkeepers, lives there. If a martial law action is planned, I would guess rounding up the leadership of Oathkeepers would be a top priority.

Anonymous said...


Anonymous said...

Sats - I only read the first chapter and intro, and it cracked me up. How telling this is, as it describes this place on earth called The United States.

FA - I concur with others that your last paragraph hits it on the head for me. I find myself in this place more and more. When I'm out digging in my compost, harvesting plants, berries, watering the crops and eating the best food I can grow, I feel closer to Mother Earth than ever. The only power I have is to be able to change the few feet around me and nothing else.

HSW - there was a drone that flew above my home a few days ago. I could hear it, very low, but could not see it. It also had another sound that I have not heard before as it passed over. I'm always looking up at what flies over as I am interested in all sorts of aircraft. At first I thought it was a Rutan Starship as one flies over almost everyday, but it wasn't. Interesting times we live in as has been spoken about.

I hope everyone can be civil around this campfire, it would be too bad if it didn't. It is a good place to gather and learn different things about one another and the world. Hang in there folks!


murph said...


Believe it or not, I actually welcome yours or any other person’s research into a subject. I also do not mind references to where the research comes from and I try and follow up on all of them. I also do not mind the caveat of "IMO this seems to have validity". What I do object to is derogatory references to individuals that either reject or question the references and/or conclusions.

I will also readily admit that, for the most part, my conclusions concerning aero spraying are primarily a result of personal observations rather than scientific data. I also admit that my observations and consequent conclusions could be wrong. Likewise, they also could be true. I ask the same from you.

I did spend time going through various articles at that debunking site. I think I understand the arguments. Some of the comments at the site are objectionable as hell.
As I understand the argument, since jet trails can be prolonged and cover large amounts of the sky, therefore, all artificial cloudiness from jet aircraft cannot be aero spraying. I cannot accept that argument. It is called a straw man argument. Ie. Since this is true in these instances, therefore all instances are the same.

I have gone through a number of chemtrail sites and admit that some of the more radical folks out there make some pretty outrageous claims. That does not negate the argument that chemtrails do take place.

Now I can spend a lot of time and print space going through item by item the debunker site, showing what I agree with and what I dispute. Frankly, I don’t have the time nor inclination to do so at this time.

So, do you have any other reference points to substantiate the “no chemtrail” thesis that does not depend on that single site for information?

whitewater fraggle said...

Good to meet you last weekend, Bexar. Cool things going on over on the island for sure.

Do you make compost tea out of other natives?

I was wondering about thimble berry and devil's club? Both have very soft, velvet like, leaves and I know the Salish people used Devils club for all sorts of medicinal purposes. There has got to be some good stuff in there or would you just compost it?


Anonymous said...

Whitewater - Good to meet you likewise.
The compost tea I make is from what ever goes into the pile. I apply mostly comfrey and nettle leaves from the land here. I have not tried thimble berry or devil's, but why not give it a try?
I also apply a molasses solution, 2 tablespoons per gallon, to the compost to bring in beneficial microbes and bacteria. And the comfrey juice I told you about, diluted 20 to 1.
I am sort of a mad scientist in my back yard. I also sprinkle biochar between additions, which at the moment, is about every other day.


rockpicker said...

Murph; If you get a chance to view the film I posted the link for, Cloud Cover, it states in the first segment that conditions for the formation of natural clouds are cold air, particulate for water droplets to form around and relative humidity above 70%.

It states that chemtrails form in dry air, and persist because they are predominantly made of particulate, not water.

One point left out of the current debate here is the H.A.A.R.P. connection.

What Carnicom has always mentioned is the barium and aluminum being sprayed. Both are metallic salts that ionize in sunlight. I don't see how discussion of chemtrails can be considered comprehensive without discussing the possible link between aerosols and ionic heaters.

murph said...


We can both dig up sites that make the claim of aerosol spraying. What evidence I have read concerning it are fairly thin. For instance, I have not heard yet of anyone going up in a plane and taking sample of the air from the planes spraying. The soil and water testing I have read about does not seem to be for the most part, conclusive in purporting aerosol spraying. At least I have yet to see such evidence. At the same time the debunking site HSW has pointed out has some of the same kind of errors.

At this time I think it to be highly probable that we are being sprayed with something. I wouldn't put it past the arrogant bastards for a second. Hell, they have no compunction about poisoning the land with their chemicals. I do not think it is happening everywhere nor all the time in any one area.

In our area this summer, for the whole summer there has not been any intense artificial cloud cover observed, I look every day and quite often. Last year and the year before, it was almost every day, all day. I just don't buy the contrails as the final explanation.

Yes, there also may be a harp connection.

I'm tired, got to go to bed

rockpicker said...

Is this IT?

Anonymous said...

Is the no US Gov accessible legislation on geoengineering?

In the UK Gov Report entitled "The Regulation of Geoengineering" ( Fifth Report of Session 2009-2010 ) as part of the Science and Technology Committee, In the summary ( Point 2 ) and I quote directly...

"There are three reasons why, we believe, regulation is needed. First, in the future some
geoengineering techniques may allow a single country unilaterally to affect the climate.
Second, some—albeit very small scale—geoengineering testing is already underway."

The attitudes expressed in the whole report are pretty scarey, they seem convinced they need to get on with geoengineering, and this was two years ago. Gd

rockpicker said...

Here's a lecture by a scholar about the secret space program that doesn't exist.

Anonymous said...


All lies and jests
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest
Lah, la, la, la.

Paul Simon

Anonymous said...

rp great lecture, mentioned two of my favorite people, Catherine Austin-Fitts and Dr. Judy Wood, who's work holds a lot of keys IMO, really enjoyed her book. cheers Gd.

rockpicker said...

Working in the seed potatoes right now, bringing in the harvest, haven't had a chance to read all this yet, but thought I should share this with the rest.

rockpicker said...

GD; It is so easy to dismiss the new and the weird when you lack information. When you are confronted with facts from credible sources, even in the absence of plausible explanations, either you must admit to an incomplete understanding of physical laws, accept the concept of 'magic', or simply dismiss the whole story as disinformation.

Toasted cars come to mind.

No question in my mind that one of the most interesting aspects of 9/11 was the toasted cars in Manhattan.

Few people even know about them, but thanks to a very brave Dr. Judy Woods, we have the photos of those strangely damaged vehicles.

I listened to a guy on Rense the other night who believes Woods is wrong in her conclusions concerning the use of directed energy as a primary vector for the towers' demolition. Rather, he believes micro nukes were employed to cause the steel and concrete to dustify. (Spellcheck doesn't yet recognize the term as a legitimate word.) But, he does not disparage the veracity of Woods' photos, only her conclusions.

The evidence, available for everyone interested in seeing, points to the use of forces and materials that would only be available to state-sponsored terrorists.

Nineteen ragheads operating out of caves in Afghanistan, armed with box-cutters, didn't bring down those towers.

Like Charlie Daniels says, "We all know something's wrong."

freeacre said...

Harkening back to your previous link, Rockpicker, it looks like there is a chance that the internet might get seriously fucked up as soon as tomorrow. The stock market off line? The Banks? What else?

False flag, or real payback?

I wouldn't leave a lot of money in the bank, in case anybody still does.

Heavy rays from the Sun coming in tomorrow, the 30, from a coronal mass ejection.
Did I mention that there was a 1.8 earthquake at the Newberry Caldera (about ten miles from our house) last week? Never saw one there before.

Between now and the New Year, it ought to get real interesting. Duck and cover, Kids. Love to you all.

rockpicker said...

This guy appears to have a pretty good handle on things...

rockpicker said...

This is too good not to pass along...

Anonymous said...

rp: I admit I was diverted from 9/11 by MCR and his "the window to achieve political and legal change had closed" BS. (murph re-read MCRs DON’T PAINT ME WITH THE 9-11 TRUTH BRUSH post and tell me he's a stand up guy regarding the Pentagon witnesses especially in light of this) it wasn't until I saw an interview with Judy Wood last year and then read her book that I connected the free energy angle, once you connect free energy (see Hutchison effect) to 9/11 it becomes clearer how effective the MCR/PO gatekeeping is IMO. I'm still reading on the UFO conspiracy/coverup Timothy Good is a UK author who's books have been an eyeopener, "Beyond Top Secret" is especially well referenced. Can you recommend any other authors? cheers Gd

Anonymous said...


Here is Natanyahu relaxing amongst friends telling them how it really is and how America will go along with anything they decide to do when he was unaware he was being recorded.

He did mention 80% of American's will go along with whatever they want to do. The other side of the coin is that I have heard a figure of 15% of the public is already aware of what games Israel are playing. If as Murph has stated in the past, it only takes 4% to move the other 96% then to my reckoning we are already 11% over target.

Anonymous said...


I have just learned that that clip referenced above is over 10 years old. Same rhetoric but now in a more deranged form.

rockpicker said...

GD; Just ran into this posted on Camelot Kerry's blog.

Haven't read it, but she says it's a 'must read.'

rockpicker said...

I live east of the continental divide in southwestern Montana, surrounded by mountains that go up to nine and ten thousand feet.

With the fires burning to the west for all of August and September, we've been almost constantly hazed in wood smoke since the end of July. It broke last week. We got a couple of brief rains last week that cleared the sky. Whew, long haul of breathing dirty air...

Yesterday the sky was blue and cloudless in the morning. Meaning, conditions were such that clouds could not form naturally. Not enough moisture in the upper atmosphere, not enough suspended particulate, not cold enough. Something wasn't there to allow clouds to form.

However, after noon, jets began streaking the arid, blue sky with long, persistent aerosol trails.

The first ones to appear, for the west, drifted in as old remnants, as if they'd been made west of us, in a neighboring valley. No planes, just long, dissipating streaks.

Later in the day I did see planes actually laying down the trails over us. This is very sparsely populated high desert country, with no major cities or high-volume destination centers.

As has been the pattern, these persistent trails slowly began to merge into a bank of cirrus-looking clouds. Lots of 'mares' tails.'

By evening, as the full Harvest Moon rose in the east, we could see trails parallel over the garden in the western sky, so straight and defined as to be, at first glance, taken for power lines. But perpendicular to the most prominent trails were older ones, running east-west.

Don't know what they are, but I side with Murph in believing they are not normal jet contrails.

Anonymous said...

rp: The synopsis on kerrys blog is written by the publisher not Kerry. The authors list of books on amazon are less than impressive (self help, how to make a fortune publishing etc.), and when you "look inside" "The Dulce Protocol" on page 4 he admits that "for the most part some sections of this manuscript can be found scattered throughout the internet....if any of this material is remotely true, god help us"

Thanks, but I'll pass on that one. It would be just as easy to take some of the names he mentions with keywords to the subject matter and use google to save yourself the cost of the book IMO. Gd.

Anonymous said...


Hey guys, have I got news for you. The Jews are victims again, unbelievable but true. The are so pissed with it, two of them, Leonard Horowicz and Sheri Kane are suing thirty media bullies including Alex Jones; Rense, Icke and others, together with major isp's like Google and Softlayer Technologies for deformation. It is the biggest secret that the alternative media is not talking about. They are claiming first amendment violations the thrust of which is quite convoluted and difficult to explain. In other words, I have not as yet fully grasped the full scope of their argument. Here is a little bit of what they claim.

“The litigation pits Americans’ First Amendment Rights against an organized crime gang of agent-provocateurs administering an illegal propaganda, defamation, and harassment program approved by intelligence agencies benefitting war-makers on Capitol Hill and Wall Street. The lawsuit strikes at the heart of racial intolerance and unrest in American society. It names agents and agencies fueling and profiting from this treason of manufactured aggression. The suit vets the administrators of organized crime and unfair trade, and how this program involving mass media and psychological operations is being conducted covertly and heartlessly to damage We The People politically and behaviorally.”

More information can be found here:

Anonymous said...


I guess you guys have already heard about the assassination attempt on Hilary whilst she was in Israel. Whilst she was in convoy between Tel Aviv and Jerusalem a white Citroen drew along side and opened fire. Could it be the same white Citroen that did for Princess Diana. At best this is an appalling lapse of security unless it wasn't. I believe the intention was that the USA would wade into Iran in retaliation thus doing Israel's work for them. If I was Obama I would have thrown one at Tel Aviv.

Anonymous said...


Ron Paul telling how it really is over Iran and which country has the worst human rights record in the world.

Anonymous said...

421 to 6! proving once again that congress knows war is a major cog in the money machine.

as for the masses, the operative phrase is "hold the line". at all cost, including life itself! as long as its somebody else's life!! ...p

Anonymous said...

SATS - I have tried loading the Vets today site and it keeps being dumped. I even did a search for their site, found it and began loading and searching for the link again, made some progress and then DUMPED again!

You don't suppose that a certain country does not want that article read do you? Strange things going on. Can't believe con-grass voting for another attempt to go to war. What a bunch of losers, most of them.


Anonymous said...

B... comes up 4 me. shows dateline of 7/18. comes up thru search as well. ie... upload date, 9/20... p

Anonymous said...


Apologies to everyone for posting a whole article but if it is important news and you can't access it then I guess it is okay. Thank the inventor of gigabyte computers, my history still had it complete in cache. It took multiple C&P's to get rid of all the side panels and video screens and extract just the text but it was no problem, pleased to do it.
Al-Alam and Reuters Report Hillary Clinton Convoy Attack in Israel
By Gordon Duff, Senior Editor
Israeli radio and Reuters broke the story then went mysteriously silent, an assassination attempt inside Israel, on Secretary of State Clinton. 
Soon afterward, Iran’s national network, al Alam went public with a translated version which is being boycotted by news services.
Details on the unsuccessful murder attempt on America’s top diplomat below but first some background.
Possibly responsible for the assassination attempt on Clinton is this tale of deceit by Rep. Michelle Bachmann as outlined by CNN’s Andersen Cooper:

YouTube - Veterans Today -
We see this as part of a pattern of escalation by Israel, carefully orchestrated terrorism which may well culminate in an attack on the London Olympics as has been predicted by many.  Nothing less could bring about the result Netanyahu desires, a massive US and NATO air attack on Iran, and note this carefully, not an attack on Syria.
The video below describes how Israeli contractors are sabotaging London Olympic security.  Highly credible source:

YouTube - Veterans Today -
It is our opinion that this is a valid news story.  We believe the attack on Clinton is related to the current political upheaval in Israel, an attempt to kill Clinton, blame Iran and take the focus off the domestic political meltdown.
We also feel the bus attack in Bulgaria, killing 6 Israeli citizens is highly suspect for the same reasons as well.
Israeli radio broke the story Sunday night, midnight, but never mentioned it again.  This has been confirmed by sources inside Israel
The real story as we have been able to learn is this;  About 16 hours ago, Secretary Clintons convoy, traveling from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, was attacked.  There would have been a minimum of 3 to 5 vehicles, with Clinton probably traveling in a bulletproofed Chevy Tahoe or Israel built Toyota Land Cruiser.

Anonymous said...


This follows the story earlier of an attack on a bus loaded with Israeli tourists that exploded in Bulgaria. Six were killed. Netanyahu said he would respond by attacking Iran. It is our opinion that this was a Mossad “false flag” operation much as was the Clinton assassination attempt. Bulgarian security services are trained by the Mossad. There are dozens of Mossad agents operating in Bulgaria which still has in place massive Soviet era security services that follow all tourists and check on every “overnight” guest in Bulgaria.
In fact, you can’t leave Bulgaria without meal and hotel receipts being reviewed. Bulgaria is considered, next to North Korea, the most “watchful” nation on earth.
There has never been evidence of any Iranian security personnel operating in Eastern Europe though Iran could, if they chose, claim retaliation for the murder inside Iran of a number of scientists and their families, acts openly admitted to by Israel. Iran has, however, made no such threats.
Coincidentally, the attack on Clinton was within hours of her statement in support of Israel regarding the Bulgarian attack. We do not believe in coincidences and find the timing of these events and the arrival of the USS Stennis, another American aircraft carrier in the Persian Gulf, to be coincidental also.
Were Secretary Clinton murdered as intended, Iran would have been blamed also as would Iran have been blamed for the US Navy’s attack on a Dubai fishing boat which failed to sink, a boat the Navy said was “Republican Guard” but returned to Dubai with dead and wounded fishermen who were gunned down, unarmed by American .50 caliber machine gun rounds.
In making these statements, which will surprise none of the world’s intelligence community, we expect reprisals from Mossad based press management and intimidation groups, such as the one that suppressed the Clinton murder attempt.
A white Citroen DS, a French car built (assembly plant in Israel) drove alongside the convoy and opened up on Clinton’s vehicle with automatic weapons fire.
Normal security procedures should have prevented any vehicle on open regions from coming within 200 meters of Clinton. Additionally, the Secretary of State would have traveled with Apache helicopter air support above while on open highway.
Thus, the concept of a cheap French sedan with plastic wheels and a 1 litre deisel engine escaping such an incident is fanciful.

The translation of the intercepted Reuter’s story from Israel is below.
We list probability of the story being high and that networks are being asked to suppress the incident as an embarrassment to Israel.
Reports are coming in, to Israeli blogs, radio and TV that red flares and illumination is seen at the “alleged ” site.
This is the first visit by Secretary Clinton to Israel in two years:

Anonymous said...


Short intercepted Reuters report below

Israeli sources reported that the procession of Hillary Clinton Secretary of State was fired on yesterday, while passing through on the road to Jerusalem – Tel Aviv,” states Al-Alam News.
According to information published by the site ‘Reuters’, the car was a white‘Citroen’.
The assassition team approached the Clinton convoy and opened up with multiple automatic weapons.
Secretary Clinton was not injured but members of the security staff spoke with press, leading to a news announcement in Israel which was quickly denied.
Citizens of the region noted the area under “illumination” used, either artillery or dropped from aircraft.

Anonymous said...


Mega-Banks Plan for Collapse with Contingency Plans and Private Police Force

Isn't it comforting to know that after the US economy has crashed and burned and the banks have absconded with all your money, because of due diligence, they will still be able to carry on functioning.
The question no one seems to be asking is, doing what? Every Ponzi scheme depends on sucking up new takers from a new layer below and when this bottom layer is exhausted the scheme fails. So when there are no more people to put money in or take out money from the banks, what function are they actually going to perform?

Still all may not all be lost, we might all start trading in Britcoins.

Anonymous said...


I have been hogging the blog lately so this is the last for a while and I will clear off and let someone else have a turn. I really hope you can get this up on the Veterans site because it is unbelievable. A delegation of Sephardic Jewish Rabbis greet and embrace President Ahmadinejahd then emphatically distance themselves from Zionism. Is there hope for the world. 421 / 6 probably not.

Did you miss this on Fox News :–)

Anonymous said...


Well you know what a liar I sometimes am! Keep a watchful eye on me.

This one is too important to let it sit around. Henry Kissinger supported by 16 US Intelligence Departments is quoted as saying “ISRAEL WILL NOT EXIST IN TEN YEARS TIME”

What perfect timing, after the Hilary incident and the Jews and Muslim friendship. Let us hope that the 421 : 6 vote is just an academic exercise.

Anonymous said...

P and SATS - thanks, got it now. Must have been on my end of the net. One never knows though.


Anonymous said...

correction on that liveleak upload date. 7/20. not 9/20. i'm cornfused. is this old news we didn't hear about? ..p

rockpicker said...


Anonymous said...

Just finished reading this article and found it disturbing in many aspects. The temp in the water keeps getting higher. How long will this entire system last?


Anonymous said...

RP - I watched that video and also went to the site this clown belongs to. I scanned some of it's members, most have degrees from eastern seaboard schools, elite, so called experts in their fields. How does one become an expert on other countries and their way of life while in a room with books written by other so called experts? What type of life experiences do these pampered boys have and where would they be if there was no government officials to report to, books and "papers"to write? How many of these think tank organizations exists, how are they funded and by whom, and salaries do these boys receive?
I would love to see these types out earning an honest days work along side a road busting rocks! Just like Sonny in the "Apostle", watched over by Morgan Woodward in "Cool Hand Luke" and bossed by Strother Martin, same movie. "What we got here is a failure to communicate, some men you just can't reach".


rockpicker said...

Stunning Developments, I guess!

Bexar; None of this surprises me. It is reaffirming, in a twisted way, to see the reality you've suspected come alive before your eyes.

And my friends say it's all in my head...

rockpicker said...

"Nickled and Dimed"

Anonymous said...

Nope -didn't watch the debate last night. No need to. It all sounds like the "Peanuts" parents talking, "Wha wha whaaaa, wha wha wha whaaaa...wha" Misspoke? What the fuck is "misspoke?" Jeez, call it like it is, man -they lied! They are both

I'm wondering when they're going to kick-off WW3 -before or after the election? I'm wondering because my brothers are bugging me to come out East for a visit and I'd hate to pay $500 on a plane ticket if they're just going to declare marshall law in the next few weeks, right? Plus, I don't want to be molested or radiated by TSA, -and, being subjected to being cooped-up with 50 screaming, drooling and pooping children.

Fall has now arrived, so the garden will be wilting pretty soon, but, it was a good summer and veggies were good and plentyful. Still have a lot of carrots growing and will be re-planting kale and lettice in a hoop house this weekend. Gonna see how long I can keep it all alive and growing.

Ok, yeah, a boring comment, but, I'm bored.


Anonymous said...

Yeah, I know...

Lettuce and plentiful were spelled wrong. Sorry, I just go too fast and push the "Publish Your Comment" button.


freeacre said...

Bexar - Just read the link to the Dr. Dobson article on health care and associated issues of corporatation. Very well written and a total bummer. On a personal level, I have found all that he said to be true. Now I find myself becoming better due to several combinations of alternative treatments, soon to be criminalized, probably. I take large amounts of vitamin and herbal supplements and msm from the vet, avoid wheat and legumes, dairy, sugar, etc. But, were I to be in school today, I'd be told to eat all the stuff that has made me sick. It's hard to believe that everything seems to have gotten so screwed up.

Randy - you may be bored but you are never boring. Congrats on your garden this year! What's with those earthquakes in Utah?

freeacre said...

Rockpicker - You know those 5 million volt tasers can be bought by anybody. I just got a 1 million volt one that fits in my purse like a cell phone for 40 bucks. What comes around, goes around.

murph said...


That article you linked to by P.C. Roberts and that doctors criticism of the health care industry was interesting. To the best of my knowledge, his complaints are valid, and there seems to be even more to it than he iterates.

However, notice how much of his complaints revolve around income for the doctor. No statements about just how much net income has dropped because of all he mentions. It is a whole other matter if a doctors income falls 50% off of a net half million income than if it falls 50% off of a $75 thousand a year income.

A pretty substantial amount of the higher priced medicos in this country became multiple millionaires from charging these high prices. I know that some of those in the medical field in our area are charging absurd prices for their services and they sure seem to be living a high life as far as I can see.

The question becomes; what is a reasonable price for such services? I hear arguments on both sides of that. It appears to me that the medical profession is as susceptible to greed as any other area. So, is the medical dude that closes his practice because he can't make a reasonable living or because he can't make a 1/2 million (or more)per year at it?

I think there is more to this story than that article puts out.

Anonymous said...

murph... im convinced of it. a descriptive word that fits like a girdle would be combine. several aspects of the profession has been corporatized to maximize revenue stream. especially the specialty stuff... p

Anonymous said...

Murph - I thought the same thing about his income. I have known about plenty of docs making big bucks and whine if their income drops. One I do know only worked part time, was able to take his wife and two children on a world wide trip for six months. Another I know, is a baby doc and is all the time taking trips, installed the largest solar pv system here and has a couple of other places they live at. So, yes, the docs are all doing well I believe.

FA- my wife is on an amazing program. Back in May, she was diagnosed border line diabetic, high blood pressure, and a couple of other things. Since that time she has changed her diet, watching how much she eats, weighs everything, has lost 66 pounds and her just recent blood work/exam came back with all low numbers and no diabetes! The doc is scratching his head. Tell me that diets are not important like the MIC (medical industrial complex) says. They do not know nor have the time, like the article said! There is more to her story, but can't go into much here.
We have been lied to about so many things!!!


Anonymous said...

Earthquakes in Utah? Haven't heard of any recently, FA, but, they don't do a whole lot of reporting of news around here and facts are sort of a "no-no." The only thing they consider newsworthy here is anything Mitt Romney does like sneeze and crap, the University of Utah football team loosing to everyone and the LD$ General Conference -plus, the normal "TomCat," Dancing with the Stars, Idol, Survivor, CSI, BradJolina crisis.

We have these prepardness briefings every 6 months or so here at work with earthquakes being the big topic due to the university sitting directly on top of a big-ass fault line that's expected to do a number on us at any time. Number, as in 7.8 on the Richter scale. During these presentations, they get us all scared and riled-up about being prepared in case of something like a mega-earthquake and once they asked me what I would do or if I was prepared for such a thing and I told the guy that, yeah, I know of a good many places I'm gonna loot once I run out of beer and pizza. Needless to say, the presenters weren't too happy with my response and my manager gave me the "death-ray" stare. But, she hates me anyway, so I didn't think she could hate me more, so... fuck it, right?

Subject Change: I work in a teaching hospital and once I overheard one of our senior residents talking about the debt he's incurred in his quest to becoming a doc - $200,000 was the total at that time. Dang. And I wonder... what and how many decisions are influenced by that debt?

Man, I hate it when I put a few hundred buck on my credit card (which I might do soon to go "Southwest" to go back East).
So... anyone with any REALLY good reliable intel on the start of WW3would be greatly appreciated -that way I won't have to put $$ on my credit card.


freeacre said...

Take this with a grain of salt, but somewhere (can't find it now) I read that nobody should be going anywhere very far away between now and November because they won't be able to get back if TSHTF. Like an earthquake, WWIII, or some other disruptive thing. Of course, that would always be the case...

You can see those earthquakes in Utah on the Live Earthquakes site: Not there so far today.

freeacre said...

Bexar, Congratulations to your wife! What did she find that works for her? I got real good numbers, too, from eating mostly meat, fish, lots of non-starchy vegetables and lots of supplements.They said I am not pre-diabetic anymore.

murph said...

I came across this interview of Ecuadorian president Correa and Julian Assange. Very interesting perspectives on politics and social change. Less than 30 min. Worth listening to.

murph said...

ARRRG here is the web site

Anonymous said...

murph... in my view correa is one example of many coming along now as moving along toward fullfillment of the eagle and the condor prophesies. which is to say a coming into alignment between the north and south (aka, the upper and lower chakras) that balances in heart within the individual body politic/energy/ system. which is, imo, simply a differentiated part of the whole/one collective.

to quote terra tonz creator, c ryan karanovich (aka, panman) describing the members of the terra tonz collective....

"everyone's a part of another's missing pieces"

panman pretty kewl dude. so's his terra tonguez and his soon to be available terra panz check em out. especially the spirit and intent behind these beautuful instruments....


murph said...

hey P,

That is of course containing the assumption that Correa is not just another politician lying through his teeth.

Interesting instruments. Wish I would generate the time to get back into music. sigh

Anonymous said...

I play something similar, P.

I was clicking around the internet/Youtube when I came across this -

Handpans are REALLY cool, but VERY expensive and VERY hard to come by. So, some of the alternatives would be the tongue drums. MUCH cheaper and easy to come by and the Terratonz is just one of several other tongue drum makers. I got a Milltone on ebay which was much cheaper than most (although he just raised his prices sugnificantly).

I just love playing it, Wifeepoo loves it and has me play during her art shows at her studio and around town. I always threaten to wear one of those large knit beanies, stuff some paper or whatever in it to simulate dreadslocks (I have very short hair), wear some cool shades and ratty clothes and play on the floor for her shows, but, I never do it.

Anyway, I'll be interested to see the Terrapanz when they come out.


Anonymous said...

hey P & R I've wanted a hang for a few yrs but they're too pricey for me, lots of similar alternatives available these days tho, check out and others


Anonymous said...

Yep, looked at those too, GD, but still way too expensive for me. Out of all the hangs listed, I like the Halo the best. But, they're very spendy and the waiting list is in years. So... tongue drums on Ebay are pretty much around my limit.
Oh, but, you can make one!

I tried making one first (per above), but all I did was break a bunch of blades as I made notes that sounded like I was strangling a cat.

I worked a bunch of OT last winter, so as my reward, I got me a green Milltone. I have tons of fun playing it and I feel it really calms me down after a long day at work.


Anonymous said...



Guys I have just learned about a reported false flag operation to be carried out on America. Make of it what you will. Before I go into it you know my feelings about religion. This site is run by a lady Pamela Rae Schuffert who runs a blog describing current events from a Christian point of view. Her blog contains much about subjects like there are many Christian churchgoers who are just as sinful after they come out of church as when they went in and they expect to be raptured up when the time comes but that is reserved for the true followers of Christ. She seems to have an inside track to information in the same way Cyclone had, so you can believe it or dismiss it as the work of an overzealous religious crank. Here in note form is what she is saying.

Israel is mobilising

The US Government is going to nuke four of its own cities:

And of course blame it on Iran.

The administration of Washington DC will be transferred to Denver CO

The CIA and other agencies are quietly relocating to Denver also

Obama has an empty schedule – diary.

The old guillotine story has reappeared – guillotines in FEMA boxcars ready to roll

Drone activity for shock and awe

Full blown martial law to be imposed.

Most likely to be implemented this October before the elections.

As I said make of this what you will. If the story was about an attack by Russia China Iran etc it would be BS but Uncle Sam gives it a level of credibility to my mind.

Wait and see. Must run I have to be on the other side of the country in a couple of hours. Be back Late Wed or Thurs.

Interesting stuff starts about 2/3 way down. I don't know how much will remain up.

Anybody aware of increased activity in the Denver area?


Anonymous said...

randy... u r absolutely corrrecto about the rarity of panz. likewise the rarity of hand crafted hangs. they are as much metal art pieces as instruments. seems to me to be no substitute for making one yerself could you do so. operative word about these is frequency and no one could/would be capable of 'tuning' (personalize) one to u better than u.

i have no idea at this point how they're made but ryan's shop's about an hour from me and i'm planning a day trip there to check the place out where seeds of an SOC have begun to sprout as well. there's even a hostil on the property. folx that hang there are a part of loosely knit bunch of the local hippie community generally referred to as the family. u no, a melting pot of extreemly talented but mostly starving artists of all stripe, musicians, writers, tradesmen & women, etc, etc, etc but that share a commonality which in a nutshell is best described as each other. so i know these people thru that connection to include ryan and his little band of merrymakers. iow, if yer lookin for some home cookin u look to the family cuz its highly likely that somewhere in that network there's a cook and its family tradition for the cook to help the hungry, within their own limitations and capablilities of course.

i can tell u this, ryan refers to his hangs and panz as sacred instruments and, based on what i know of ryan and how he came to get into this, i can assure u the emphasis is on 'sacred'. thus, i can assure u he and/or his cohorts would be willing to help you to caft your own in any way they could. ie what tools, right materials, tips, etc, etc.

if you're interested let me know and i will see what i can set up for u. not sur when going over there but soon.... p

Anonymous said...

Thanks P, but I've got something else in the works. I worked an entire weekend early last month, lots of overtime $, so I'm getting an "Xplosive Percussion" drum for my B-day -

Clint Wilcox from Ft. Collins, CO makes these and I think they sound great -and, they're somewhat affordable. Clint was great to work with also. You could get a half dozen of these for the same price as one Halo -AND, you could probably get them all way before your name comes up on the Halo waiting list.

Hmmm... don't know what to make of Pamela Rae... I REALLY hope she's wrong. I have two brothers in the DC area. The title of her blog is somewhat on the depressing side. Almost as bad as my http//wearetotallyfuckingdoomed.blogspot. Ok, no, I don't have a blog named that, BUT, if I did have a blog, that's what I'd name it, I think.


murph said...


Had to chuckle over that Pamela Rae site. I went through almost all of the link before I couldn't take anymore of it. For those self proclaimed saved, born again folks, it must be a complete reaffirmation of their belief system.

As for the very small amount of that link dedicated to the concept of a police state, don't think we really need another christian prophecy predicting it. Way too many other data points readily available indicating this is coming. ie. Don't need to be a born again christian to see it coming.

On a personal basis I have a huge cynical mistrust of sites like this. Way too many untested and unsubstantiated assumptions to be taken seriously. As for the assention of the faithful, I'll be waving goodby as they ascend naked into the heavens and asking for them to let me know how this worked out for them. I reckon at this time in my life I just do not need the crutch of a mystical belief system to make my life bearable.

Anonymous said...

randy... thats great! keep us posted on how it turns out and how you're progressing. meantime i'll keep an eye out for a knitted sky piece with dreads hangin otta it for ya. ya gotta have one man!!

all.... wanna hear something on the doo do doo do side? this is a true story... couple wks ago was my b-day and my wifeepoo had to be away for a few daz starting that morn. i had to work and she was gone when i got home. but she'd put out a buncha stuff including a couple presents on the coffee table which she'd also turned into an alter with candles, some of mf's sage, and sundried talisman type thingies we have for purposees of unmentionable paranormal, albeit sacred intent. also sitting there was a bag we use to keep our stock of various essential oils in. somewhere along the line that nite i dug out the frankensense and had me a little frankensense, etc (more unmentionables) party. next day i put it back in the bag.

fast forward a couple days and wifeepoo comes home. so i thank her for being so thoughtful and all and especially for leaving the essential oils cuz i knew where she was going and what she'd be doing was something that would include essential oils.

she said, i didn't. i had them with me.

i said, no, they're in the bag and its right out there on the table.

she said, no, they're in my suitcase.

so i go out to the living room and sur nuff, NO bag.

pretty freaky eh? but wait, there's more. i told her about using the frankensense.

she said, no wonder we couldn't find it. i knew it was sposed to be in there but it was missing. then, next day, it was there.

so, i don't know bout u guys but things ain't what they used to be round here!!!

murph... i'm w/u on the cynical mistrust of such but am trustin the thumpers get their wish. and damn sur wishin em god speed on their journey. can't hardly wait for em to get the hell off this planet!! ... p

Anonymous said...

JMurph and others,

Here is another link that was linked to an article I was reading.

Like others, I'll wave too. Let the Earth Mother heal and be rid of the misfits.


rockpicker said...

Bexar; I just read through that link you put up, and then Devvy Kidd came on and said there are NO co-sponsors to that H.R. bill. She's not too concerned about it. Claims the headlines are a lot more scary-sounding than the reality.

rockpicker said...

Rense interviewed Dane Wiggington last night. He made a lot of sense, and he offered quite a bit of data. I expect Rense will post it as a special archive available on his website.

rockpicker said...

Here's a link to a new, must-see film, by Gary Null and friends, about the Food and Drug Nazis.

rockpicker said...

How come this guy didn't debate the other night?

rockpicker said...

Haven't heard any discussion of these issues, either.

rockpicker said...

So, coming home from work tonight, I pick up this old man hitchhiking and he tells me his name is Rod Serling...

Anonymous said...

Hey, Club Orlov has a post about anarchy ya'll might be interested in.

Along with some of this:


Anonymous said...

RP.... did he smell like frankincense? ...p

rockpicker said...

P; Based on deductions gleaned from olfactory sensors, I'd say his essential oils were more along the lines of chain saw bar lubricant and various aromatic hydrocarbons more commonly associated with frictional heat management.

Anonymous said...

RP... i got the pix. thats funny. can't say i use them for the same purpose but then, maybe so in a round about way... p

btw... here's another for the woo woo dept... the 1st born up at the heartwood community is named elohe (angel in cherokee). so she's already matriarch in that respect but she's demonstrating she's matriarch of all at heartwood despite she's currently somewhere between 3 and 4! going on 400!!

here's the scene...

its b-4th boogie week. annual musical gathering of 600 or so hippies having a grand ole time in the wood and so named because it always ends on the weekend before the 4th of july. this year was the 29th in row. we had just pulled into camp and stopped at meet 'n greet to say hallo before moving on to set up camp. among the folks at meet 'n greet are elohe and her mom and dad.

dw liz and elohe are pals and spend alot of time playing together. liz had told elohe about her my little pony collection but elohe had never seen them. liz has a collection deeply prized by her littles (catch-all name for her inner kids of feminine gender). so liz had told elohe she'd bring them to the boogie and they can play together.

so elohe sez to liz, when are we going to play my little ponys? (patience is nowhere in the vocabulary of a 3 year old)

liz sez, oh, i'm so sorry elohe, i forgot to bring them. i had them packed but forgot to put them in the van.

what liz didn't know was that i found em packed in a bag and put it in at the last minute. on the road up she sez, damn, i promised elohe we'd play my little pony. i packed em but forgot to put the bag in. i jes smiled to meself and didn't say anything.

elohe sez, no you didn't. they're in your bag.

i'm standin there, thinkin i'm the only human on the planet that knows they're in the van and this little kid not only sez they're in the van but describes the bag!!

i can't explain it. can anybody? its just one example of how psychic this kid is! the latest thing between she and liz is this: elohe tells liz she (liz) is going to give her a my little pony in a pink wagon. sitting on the shelf here in liz's office is applejack in a pink wagon! a gift from liz's mom for her birthday. had liz told elohe about it? nope! well, psychically apparently.

rockpicker said...

That's way cool, P! Maybe Elohe is an indigo child, sent here to help the rest of us cope. Lord knows, we can use all the help we can get...

Anonymous said...

What a sad state of affairs our nation has become food wise. No wonder there are so many health problems. I'm including some paragraphs from an article I just read.

"In 1900, 2 percent of meals were eaten outside the home. In 2010, 50 percent were eaten away from home and one in five breakfasts is from MacDonald’s. Most family meals happen about three times a week, last less than 20 minutes, and are spent watching television or texting while each family member eats a different microwaved “food”. More meals are eaten in the minivan than the kitchen."

Sad, sad, sad!
We have been LIED to!

"Broccoli, peaches, almonds, kidney beans, and other whole foods don’t need a food ingredient label or bar code, but for some reason these foods—the foods we co-evolved with over millennia—had to be “improved” by Food Science."

We have been LIED to!

"As a result, the processed-food industry and industrial agriculture has changed our diet, decade by decade, not by accident but by intention. "

Who made these people experts?
We have been LIED to!

"That we need nutritionists and doctors to teach us how to eat is a sad reflection of the state of society. These are things our grandparents knew without thinking twice about them."

I was eating like this less than 60 years ago!

"One hundred years ago all we ate was local, organic food; grass-fed, real, whole food. There were no fast-food restaurants, there was no junk food, there was no frozen food—there was just what your mother or grandmother made. Most meals were eaten at home. In the modern age that tradition, that knowledge, is being lost."

We have been LIED to!!!


rockpicker said...

Bexar; AMEN!

I was just reading a Brasscheck intro that mentioned Stewart Brand, editor of the first Whole Earth Catalogue. It labeled him as a "Pentagon/oil industry operative."
So, I looked him up, and found this talk he gave to U.S. State Dept. employees. Please listen to what he says, with Agenda 21 in mind.

Anonymous said...

You know -- I wrote up a really huge commentary to your article, but then thought, "I should read the comments here first".

So I did. I won't bother now with my comments, your readership has seriously hijacked your site.

Your readership, except for a few, are more interested in their own bias and self-promotion of pet websites then discussing your article and its (many) points.

It is your site -- but I suggest some rules and some housecleaning? If I wanted to read wacked out conspiracy theories, I'd have simply gone to those sites directly, but not here. Here I have come to expect a bit more maturity and common sense. But it's a free for all mud-fest now.

Kick the morons out (if you can, Blogger may not allow you this level of control) and get this blog back on topic.

murph said...

Anonymous 3:28

You sound rather familiar in your comment. Some reason that you don't want to identify yourself?

Ahmmm which whacked out conspiracy theories are you referring to?

I can turn on moderation and put up directions to limit the conversation. That would be pretty much be what the Delphi method is about. Is that what you advocate?

If you go back through the past years posts, you will notice that at the beginning most of the comments are on the posting. Then it takes off into other subjects. If we could take the time to put up a new post every week, (like we used to do) then most comments are around the post subject.

If your trolling for an argument or put downs, go somewhere else. Your last sentence is pure shit.

Anonymous said...

Yeah -what Murph said!

Hey P, that's pretty cool. You think that, ah, Elohe might ah.... you know, have some inside scoop as to when TS, officially, HTF?

Just wonder'in...


rockpicker said...

Another whacko, off-topic commentary attempting to explain what the PTB are up to...

rockpicker said...

New spin on solar cells, from

Anonymous said...

this'n'ul curl yer toes...

anon... it connects directly to post in a roundup sorta way. pun intended. btw... this is the kewlest buncha misfits 'n morons i've ever hung out with!!

rp... yup, indigo. seems to me first i heard of the coming indigo incarnations was from gordon michael scallion back in the mid to late 90's bout same time as he published that map of the u.s. near future. what was left of cal was an island and the miss valley an inland sea.

ramdu... i'll ask. but me guess is she'll say he (meaning you) already knows. she still thinks everybody knows stuff just like her.

freeacre said...

p - Regarding the stuff showing up and disappearing, seems to be more evidence of things coming and going that George Ure has been documenting. Shifting dimensions, time lines, due to differing energies from the galactic center? Maybe...

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