Sunday, January 27, 2013


Folks, instead of posting a picture I am posting a link to read that is about this post subject material.
While I see some problems with some of the content of this site, I do think that overall it outlines some problems over this renewable energy that most aren't aware of.

From Murph

I’m sure most of the readers on this site are quite familiar with all the hype concerning sustainable/green power being pushed by various sources all over the news and internet.   I have written about them periodically over the years and I’m going to hit on it again today.

First, some things that I think we can agree on concerning the basics of this.   Everyone of the schemes for nearly free power also demand the use of non renewable resources, everyone one of them, from nuclear to wind to solar power to the touted free power from the ether or the magnetic characteristics of our universe.   To build the machines to harness those power sources takes non-renewable resources, at least in human lifetime measurements.  

Secondly, we need a working definition of “sustainable”.   In the absolute sense, which, seemingly, no one wants to talk about, it means that resources are not used up faster than they can be regenerated.   I can understand the reluctance to look at it that way because everything that is renewable in human life time terms is based on sunlight, including, lumber, farming, water critters we eat, drinkable water and breathable air.    That does not include the vast amount of substances we mine out of the ground.  They are renewable but on a scale of time that makes them meaningless in terms of human societies.   So, excluding what might as well be termed as non renewable resources what is talked about in sustainability is how long those non renewable resources can last and under what conditions and scale of usage.  

If we try to produce all the electricity needed by the use of the “green” technologies, we also have to look at how much of the non-green technologies and resources also have to be used.   It appears to me that the amount of non-renewable resources to do this would be incredible and that does not include the cost of infrastructure to utilize it and the cost of maintenance and repairs.   The current big buzz is of course solar and wind power.  

I am going to assert that from an economic and resource position, neither of these sources are viable.   

Take wind power.   I presume all of you have looked at these huge wind turbines that are mainly being built in China.  They are gigantic and take a huge amount of infrastructure and non-renewable resources to build, install and maintain.   Plus, I have mentioned before, there is a very simple problem with physics here.  It is called the law of conservation of energy and the laws of thermodynamics.   Simply put, if you remove energy from one place and convert it to another form of energy, you have inherent losses but the amount of energy stays the same, just at a lower lever.   We all know that the movement of air (wind and currents) controls what the weather is at any particular location and time.   The energy to move air around is controlled by many other factors but one of the largest factors is the sun, heating and cooling areas of the earth and causing wind.   So, putting up a windmill pulls energy out of the air movement and converts it to electricity.   The result is less energy in air movement to some amount.   If enough of these huge wind turbines are built and installed, the question comes up as to whether they will have an ultimate effect on the movement of air, ie, the weather.   Now I realize we are talking about a huge artificial system compared to the even larger ecological system we call weather.   But, I have seen no studies concerning what can/probably happen if we build enough of those huge turbines.   I rather suspect and assert that there will be a large influence on weather patters if enough of them are put up.  What amount of changes and the observable effects is not being investigated as far as I know and what the tipping point would be.  Is this just another example of ignoring the consequences of our actions? 

Virtually the same observations also apply to solar power.  If enough of the sunlight hitting the earth is converted to electrical power, what happens to the weather patterns influenced by the heat of the sun?   Again, I find no research on this subject.

The standard retort concerning this is that the ecological system is so huge and the amount of energy it contains is so big and the amount of energy we could possibly drain from the system is too small to make a difference.     This point of view is touted by folks with little or no training in the sciences, mostly by the political class but not limited to them.   

IMO, it is a mute point.   I do not think that we have the resources or the ability to make sufficient investments to get to the point of unforeseen consequences.   But, government and private business is going to try.   The amount of damage they can inject into the ecological system and society by trying is going to be severe I think.   

On to the “free sources of energy”.   There is lots of information on the web concerning these schemes.   I have no idea concerning their validity.  However, for the same reasons above, there ain’t no such thing as “free energy”.  To use the purported electromagnetic properties of our universe takes non renewable resources in the form of rare earths and oil and mined metals.   I am going to assert that there isn’t enough of these resources left at a price that is affordable to make either home units for everyone or scaled up devises to feed the electrical infrastructure we have or could develop.  

Now, in contradiction to all of this, I will admit that I would produce my own electrical power for my own usage if the cost benefit ratio made it worthwhile.   I also admit that I would ignore that ratio if the cost came down enough where I could handle the out of pocket cost.   What it comes down to is being able to continue to use electrical power in the advent of the grid having prolonged outages or just plain going away.   Home generators can handle short-term power outages.   It’s the longer term ones that I would invest the money in for our use.    But, currently, to run our household on personal generation of electrical power is not feasible.   I suspect this is also true for most homeowners in this country.   What I can do is put in, relatively speaking, enough generating capabilities to run essential elements of modern life, namely, preservation of refrigeration and water source and maybe even cooking.   Heating would still be a problem since we have a central electrical furnace.  (The codes involved to put in a wood heater present an even larger outlay of money)   A friend who lives nearby has put in a small system to run the essentials with some success.   To put in something similar would cost me in the neighborhood of $1500-$2000.  This might be doable, will take some more investigation.  

I am all for individual homeowners being able to continue operations at home in the event of a cut-off of power from the grid.   I am also in favor of finding a way to produce power that is not so destructive of the environment and is affordable.   However I think that the present directions of this push are a blind alley.  In the end, I think we are all going to have to learn how to live without access to continuous multiple power sources that are needed to keep us comfy and uninvolved in the events taking place around us.  


Anonymous said...

Good thoughts as usual Murph. Big Wind & Solar = subsidy farming, any gains are lost in transmission, neither make enough energy over their entire lifetimes to build and install themselves in the first place, let alone the extra infrastructure/generation capacity required to back up these technologies in the event of no wind blowing/nighttime.

I think there is some scope for using these technologies a la micro-generation off grid, or wind for local pumping etc.

Free energy is a whole nother post, mute at this point as it's not available to lessor mortals, though calling it by another name (over unity energy) negates any thermodynamic considerations IMO.

If we could harness all the energy used in warring, could we call it the power of peace :P

"a central electrical furnace"

I didn't think anyone had an electrical furnace (is this a boiler for water and central heating?) I have done a lot of research regarding wood fired boilers/stoves, masonry stoves etc. I installed wood fried water heating, central heating (combined 27KW) I also installed a woodfired cooking range which also provides space heating in our large kitchen/diner. We have plans for a large masonry stove (>90% efficient, low fuel use as in one or two burns per day)

The biggest question regarding woodfired considerations is access to cheap wood, our annual woodpile is the size of a double garage! When I was out of action physically and could not therefore process my own wood, I had to buy in from a log merchant, annual cost = £900.00
Processing my own wood takes on average at least two days per month. Gd.

Anonymous said...

Wood fried water heating was a typo, not a new KFC franchise ;) Gd

rockpicker said...

Murph, I would guess you are aware of rocket mass heaters, but if not, and for anyone out there thinking about switching to wood heat, here's a link to a website showing a cheap, efficient wood-burning stove. For more information, just search 'rocket stoves', or 'rocket mass heaters.' Also, look up the "permies" website for more information. I haven't built one of these, but I have watched a lot of video on them, and with my background in masonry stove construction, I have no problem believing these things work as advertised. And they're cheap to build because you can utilize scavenged materials and locally available products, like clay, sand, straw and used brick and stone to build a stove you can both cook on and heat space with. Plus, they eat like a bird.

Anonymous said...

rp: I see a masonry stove as a "grown up" version of a rocket stove, it's a 200yo design from Sweeden, the modern versions can pipe the heat into other rooms by running the flue under stone benches etc. they work best when in the centre of the building. A fast efficient burn (just like the rocket stove) once per day captures >90% of the heat in the masonry, letting it out over a long period so you only need to burn once or twice per day.

This is a good article on a home-made version from old paving slabs...

These are more like the design we want, which will incorporate a staircase and be piped off into the solar conservatory under stone benches :)Gd

rockpicker said...

Our world teems with energy. We mistake our failure to tap it as proof of its inaccessibility. It is the gravity of false perception that weights our failing.

murph said...


Yup, you've added to the information on "green energy".

A lot of the residences in our area have electric central heating units. It is a box with a squirrel cage fan and heating elements in the box. Usually runs on 220V service.

Since we live in a what is called a "mobile home" (a house on a beam frame and had detachable wheels) putting in a wood heating device is hideously expensive because of codes to do so. Mobile homes are notorious for catching fire easily and burning to the ground quickly. Danger to neighbors etc. And then there is the cost of insuring a place with wood heaters which goes up considerably. I've considered an exterior wood furnace but the cost is also extreme.

You are right that the cost of wood for heating is going up. In the last 6 years (in our area) the cost has gone from around $80 per cord to $150 per cord, if you buy from a local supplier. Even if I were younger and could go out and cut my own and haul it home, in our area again, I'd have to drive no less than 40 miles to harvest the wood. There are huge amounts of dead wood available in the forest land owned by the government all over the place but it is illegal to cut it except in specific places and you have to buy a permit to cut. If you don't have a truck able to haul a cord at a time, it's cheaper to buy at the inflated price.

For those that don't know, a cord of wood, (for whatever purpose) is a close stacked wood that is
8' x 4' x 4' (128 cu ft and when you buy, you don't get that much wood) and depending on how dry it is and whether it is hard or soft wood (pine) it weighs around 1500 lbs for soft dry wood to 5600 lbs for fresh cut hard wood.

If I heat my insulated garage (workshop) 24/7 during cold weather it takes 4 cords of pine (all that is easily available in this area and the cheapest).

I come close to going ballistic over this information. To top it off, Oregon, among other states, has strict laws on the heater you can use. The cheapest allowed (legal) is around $1500 and they go up from there.

murph said...


Yup, know of rocket stoves. One problem with them is that for home heating you must also have a pretty big heat sink. These are massively heavy and take a huge amount of labor to build. Doable for a house sitting on a concrete platform, pretty much undoable for a mobile home, or at least I have no idea how to do it from a practical standpoint. Codes and licensing might be prohibitive, haven't looked into it.

I agree that our universe and our earth environment teems with energy. Using it is a whole other matter, particularly knowing the consequences of it. We currently are experiencing all kinds of consequences from using carbon stored energy that was not planned for, most of them with rather drastic negative effects.

I think it is worth considering the consequences of nearly unlimited tapping of these kinds of energies. I assert that the huge exponential growth of population was due to our tapping very cheap carbon energy sources. I further assert that tapping another form of energy that is nearly free will only make that population growth continue. We simply do not have the infrastructure and/or resources to support that continued increase. Restudy Jeavon's paradox. Is it valid or not?

Personally, I think that our development of technology has not been in step with our wise use of it. IMO further technological advances that increase the convenience and soft living conditions will not be to our advantage as a specie on this planet. As a specie, we seem to be unable to discipline ourselves to live on a finite world without killing each other. I truly shudder at the thought that free energy could actually be a possibility.

rockpicker said...

Murph, GD; Here's a link to an article about a stove I built in Missoula, under the floor of my atrium/greenhouse, back in the eighties.

Masonry heaters can be as simple, or as ornate, as one cares to make them.

Clif High was on Rense last week talking about the rocket stove he's built in his grow dome. I should think such a stove would serve you well, Murph. Of course, we may have to reassert our personal sovereignty in defiance of the State in order to enjoy such intelligent design.

GD, thanks for the article on the slab stove heater. I got a kick out of the author's sense of humor.

rockpicker said...

Murph; Judging from your own descriptions of what the soil is like where you live, I'd posit that you could probably make bricks out of the very earth on which live quite easily. You'd have to find a source of clay, or use cement, for a binder, but that white native ash works great as the main aggregate for bricks. When you fire it with acetylene and oxygen through a rosebud tip, it melts to a beautiful blue-green glass. Doesn't take much heat. You could make your own stove with local materials, and it would be beautiful.

I could envision a masonry heater made with a barrel in which the barrel acts as your immediate heat source, with a fan assist to move air, coupled with mass storage downstream of the heat riser, for long term heat release.

As for the assertion concerning free energy promoting population density, I think illusion is in play. The highest population densities occur in the poorest, least developed areas of the world where large families are seen as a practical insurance policy for aging parents.

"Until we change the way money works, we change nothing." - Mike Ruppert

And wars are created by the gentry.

Example: the subtitle of Report From Iron Mountain: The Possibility and Desirability of Peace

Say what?

rockpicker said...

Oh, man, this just in...

" List of children killed by drone strikes in Pakistan and Yemen

Compiled from The Bureau of Investigative Journalism reports

Name | Age | Gender
Noor Aziz | 8 | male
Abdul Wasit | 17 | male
Noor Syed | 8 | male
Wajid Noor | 9 | male
Syed Wali Shah | 7 | male
Ayeesha | 3 | female
Qari Alamzeb | 14| male
Shoaib | 8 | male
Hayatullah KhaMohammad | 16 | male
Tariq Aziz | 16 | male
Sanaullah Jan | 17 | male
Maezol Khan | 8 | female

Nasir Khan | male
Naeem Khan | male
Naeemullah | male
Mohammad Tahir | 16 | male
Azizul Wahab | 15 | male
Fazal Wahab | 16 | male
Ziauddin | 16 | male
Mohammad Yunus | 16 | male
Fazal Hakim | 19 | male
Ilyas | 13 | male
Sohail | 7 | male
Asadullah | 9 | male
khalilullah | 9 | male
Noor Mohammad | 8 | male
Khalid | 12 | male
Saifullah | 9 | male
Mashooq Jan | 15 | male
Nawab | 17 | male
Sultanat Khan | 16 | male
Ziaur Rahman | 13 | male
Noor Mohammad | 15 | male
Mohammad Yaas Khan | 16 | male
Qari Alamzeb | 14 | male
Ziaur Rahman | 17 | male
Abdullah | 18 | male
Ikramullah Zada | 17 | male
Inayatur Rehman | 16 | male
Shahbuddin | 15 | male
Yahya Khan | 16 |male
Rahatullah |17 | male
Mohammad Salim | 11 | male
Shahjehan | 15 | male
Gul Sher Khan | 15 | male
Bakht Muneer | 14 | male
Numair | 14 | male
Mashooq Khan | 16 | male
Ihsanullah | 16 | male
Luqman | 12 | male
Jannatullah | 13 | male
Ismail | 12 | male
Taseel Khan | 18 | male
Zaheeruddin | 16 | male
Qari Ishaq | 19 | male
Jamshed Khan | 14 | male
Alam Nabi | 11 | male
Qari Abdul Karim | 19 | male
Rahmatullah | 14 | male
Abdus Samad | 17 | male
Siraj | 16 | male
Saeedullah | 17 | male
Abdul Waris | 16 | male
Darvesh | 13 | male
Ameer Said | 15 | male
Shaukat | 14 | male
Inayatur Rahman | 17 | male
Salman | 12 | male
Fazal Wahab | 18 | male
Baacha Rahman | 13 | male
Wali-ur-Rahman | 17 | male
Iftikhar | 17 | male
Inayatullah | 15 | male
Mashooq Khan | 16 | male
Ihsanullah | 16 | male
Luqman | 12 | male
Jannatullah | 13 | male
Ismail | 12 | male
Abdul Waris | 16 | male
Darvesh | 13 | male
Ameer Said | 15 | male
Shaukat | 14 | male
Inayatur Rahman | 17 | male
Adnan | 16 | male
Najibullah | 13 | male
Naeemullah | 17 | male
Hizbullah | 10 | male
Kitab Gul | 12 | male
Wilayat Khan | 11 | male
Zabihullah | 16 | male
Shehzad Gul | 11 | male
Shabir | 15 | male
Qari Sharifullah | 17 | male
Shafiullah | 16 | male
Nimatullah | 14 | male
Shakirullah | 16 | male
Talha | 8 | male

Afrah Ali Mohammed Nasser | 9 | female
Zayda Ali Mohammed Nasser | 7 | female
Hoda Ali Mohammed Nasser | 5 | female
Sheikha Ali Mohammed Nasser | 4 | female
Ibrahim Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 13 | male
Asmaa Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 9 | male
Salma Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 4 | female
Fatima Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 3 | female
Khadije Ali Mokbel Louqye | 1 | female
Hanaa Ali Mokbel Louqye | 6 | female
Mohammed Ali Mokbel Salem Louqye | 4 | male
Jawass Mokbel Salem Louqye | 15 | female
Maryam Hussein Abdullah Awad | 2 | female
Shafiq Hussein Abdullah Awad | 1 | female
Sheikha Nasser Mahdi Ahmad Bouh | 3 | female
Maha Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 12 | male
Soumaya Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 9 | female
Shafika Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 4 | female
Shafiq Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 2 | male
Mabrook Mouqbal Al Qadari | 13 | male
Daolah Nasser 10 years | 10 | female
AbedalGhani Mohammed Mabkhout | 12 | male
Abdel- Rahman Anwar al Awlaki | 16 | male
Abdel-Rahman al-Awlaki | 17 | male
Nasser Salim | 19"

Anonymous said...

Thought I read a story on how the big wind farms kill all types of birds, especially birds of prey.

Anything that has to do with burning anything in Mormon HQ is not an option. Yesterday was the first day in three weeks that we were NOT in "Red Air" alert. It was amazing to see the mountains and blue sky again! But, it's going to be short-lived. On Wednesday we'll be back to "Yellow Air" alert then on Thursday we're back to "Red Air" days till who knows when. Salt Lake City: "Bejing of the Rockies."

I'm wondering about cold fusion... When these two scientist back in the late '80's were visously attacked by the media, the corporate funded think tanks and universities for their claims that cold fusion was viable, well, that tells me that maybe these guys were on to something, eh? But then, if it is possible to get energy at a fraction of the cost of fossel fuels, millions of people who work in those industries throughtout the world would be thrown out of work and of course, the filthy rich oil/gas companies would lose trillions. Can't have that, man.

Hey RP, those high birth rates in poor third world countries will probably be going down thanks to the wonderful Gates Foundation -oh, and Monsanto, Dow, etc.


murph said...


That link I posted talks about it also

freeacre said...

This is off topic, but I just watched the mother of all conspiracy theories. This one will blow you away.!

Anonymous said...

rp: WTG on the underfloor masonry heating, fabulous, looks like a Roman design, I've seen similar in Roman archeological sites.

On the population thing, cheap energy brings down birthrates, but a subsequent consumer lifestyle increases resource use per head many times above high birth rate countries. It's not population density that's the problem, it's how we choose (or more like how we're brainwashed) to live.

Murph: Yeah, installation costs (and coding etc.) seem comparable to here, still, lots of "mobile homes" (and most canal boats) install wood/multi-fuel burners, usually need a larger fireproof surround, tiled paving slabs work well, then a higher twinwall flue - which is expensive stainless steel, goes for about £150 per Meter here.

I wonder if you looked at super-insulating? Maybe a staw-bale wall right around your place, with cedar planking over it, or more work with wattle n daub outer. A solar conservatory would also be good, (could be built from scrap/re-used double glazing units) a well insulated green roof with eaves designed to allow in winter sun onto a black stone floor, but block out high summer sun.

Air source heat pumps would be more efficient than the electric hot air heating, expensive though, works like geothermal heating but takes ambient heat from the air, it's a while since I looked at it so it might have better tech thesedays.

On cold fusion: read Malloves book "fire from ice" he left MIT in disgust when he realized the tests were positive and they were covering up Pons & Fleischmann successes. He was killed in a "home invasion" soon after the book came out. As an aside, the guy who poo pood P&Fs work, Stephen E Jones, is the same guy who coined the term "cold fusion", is the same guy who came up with the nano thermite misinfo, same guy poo pooing Judy Woods work today ;) Gd

Anonymous said...

New one on me...Gd

Sandy Hook shooter died day before shootings?

rockpicker said...

Timely piece on "reproductive health."

murph said...


You are absolutely correct about super insulation, particularly for a building like we are living in. It is the ultimate cost that keeps me from pursuing it. Plus, our building has on a relative scale of such types, pretty good heat retention and seldom gets uncomfortably hot in the summer, indicating it is insulated pretty well for the building style. Plus, at my age starting massive projects like that are just not feasible and would have to hire most of it done.

Believe me, I am at least passably familiar with most of these alternatives.

For all of the alternatives, I grade them by this scale;
1. dependence on outside power sources to function. The more outside power diminishes the desirability.

2. out of pocket expense. The higher the out of pocket expense the less the desirability and ability to finance it.

3. An increase in complexity. The more complex, the more fragile and therefore less desirable.

4. Complex installations that depend on an outside contractor because of codes. Not desirable at all.

5. My physical ability and/or expertise in doing it myself. A reality check that has to be taken into consideration.

An example. We have a couple of trees that are too big and liable to do some damage with enough wind that topples them. 30 years ago I would take them down myself since they have to topped out, not just cut down. Today, I physically can't do it. Have to hire someone else to do it. Now once the trees are taken down, I am able to deal with the wood and limb removal if given enough time which is considerably more than the the time needed 30 years ago.

Another example. We had to replace our front and back porches, they were about ready to fall down. Now I know that I could do it, but it would take me a lot of time because I do not have extensive carpentry skills. With all the other "have-to" jobs around this place, I couldn't dedicate the time to expedite it, so we hired it done. We are happy with the results even though I cringed at the cash outlay.

It may very well be that cold fusion works. I haven't enough physics background to judge it. However, regardless of whether it works or not (and this applies to all the other energy production alternatives) if it is not allowed (through force) or some impracticable technology sticking point it ain't here, at least yet. Generally, the whole system that is holding western style civilization together today has to be changed to make these alternatives available if/when they can be proven to work. The present system is not going to allow them to be developed. In our system, technological development that takes away power or money from the big outfits hasn't much of a chance at this time. This has been true since the 1800's. The system has to change and there is a whole array of forces currently in power that are not going to allow it unless they can make large sums of money from the innovation. They have way too much invested in the status quo with all the perks associated with it.

In truth, I see no such chance of the system being changed from the inside out by innovation or political action. All of the western societies governments have been bought off by the status quo.

I can only speculate on the outcome.

rockpicker said...

Maybe this is why everything seems to be going to Hell in a handbasket...!

Zen Gardner is showcasing this film as well.

My question is, can we address our planet's various critical ecological problems without surrendering our personal sovereignty? Probably not, if we are not aware of the ultimate game plan.

rockpicker said...

Who wants to know?

rockpicker said...

Murph, Knock out your south wall, bump out a greenhouse addition, build a russian-style masonry stove along the north wall of the addition. It'll double as a trombe wall; heat will rise up into the house.

rockpicker said...

Mr2tuff2 demonstrates over unity?

Anonymous said...

Murph re trees: Just had a similar thing here. 2yrs back I thought I'd do it myself, went up one of them (100ft) topped it out and brought it down over two days, soon after Mrs.Gd had me doing a major prune of branches over our drive, a large branch sprang back off the ground knocking me out of the tree from 20ft (few broken ribs) the whole thing made me realize it's a job for young men! I got quotes in from tree surgery firms to do the rest, extortionate rates IMO (£450 per day was the cheapest), eventually I got a local freelance climber (£100 per day) in to work with me, I'm still chipping up the brash! At least I can weigh off the 4yrs of wood fuel off against the cost of the climber! There is a big US forum for tree surgeons might be a good place to look (I'll find the name if you're interested) The UK forum is where I get all my contacts for free logs, woodchip etc. as they have to pay to tip it elsewhere, reckon I got 30ton of chip and 3 or 4 cord of wood free this yr.

re system changes, yeah I have to agree, we're only speculating bystanders in the bigger picture. I don't hold out any hope for grassroots change (manipulated/infiltrated) I do think the speculation helps see whats going on though, helps make the best plans to adapt to whats comming, which is the only reason I do the research. Gd.

rockpicker said...

What the drones see:!

Never even heard of this technology before...

I don't know how many of you watched the Iron Mountain material, but I found it to be very demoralizing, given the State's known technological capabilities, coupled with its observed disdain for "the useless eaters." Do we fight what's coming, or do we beg for mercy?

murph said...


Those two links are interesting. The second one I also have not heard of. Wonder how the lady acquired the information she presented and what is its accuracy really is.

Supposedly, Obama has a long list of illegal activity that is being presented in Federal court, presented by Market Ticker on the 29th. PA legislature has said that no federal agents will be allowed to pursue gun confiscation in their area.

It sure appears that the situation is coming to a head. Got a feeling this is going to get very ugly this year.

RP, I look at the iron mountain stuff periodically. I think we have to fight or be slaves. Not an option for me to give in.

Anonymous said...


Read the article Murph but I had no idea the situation was so bad. I always knew there would be losses especially in transmission but from that article it seems those in charge are carrying on turning the handle and wasting the resources we have left because they need to be seen to be doing something when in fact they are bereft of ideas. I now realise I had a false reality of sustainability. I agree totally with your definition and believed it would, in some unspecified way, follow the chain store principle. In other words, how does the guy with a hot dog cart at the end of the street get to become McDonald’s. He has two choices. First up is he works hard, saves his money so he can open a shop, what Marx called primitive accumulation. Second is he borrows the money from the bank. By a repeat of step one he then opens a second shop. Only half the profits from each then need to be invested in a third shop; only two percent of the profits from fifty shops are needed to open the fifty first shop and so on. I imagined it was the same principle with wind generator sustainability. Yes I know this is over simplistic, I wanted to state the concept without the baggage. Boy, was I mistaken in this belief.

As I was reading through I thought of possible design improvements which may eliminate some problems but this is only tweaking an already bad system. I thought of mounting the generator vertically down the tower with the blades horizontal like a helicopter. This would certainly look odd but it would eliminate bowing of the transmission shaft, stop the swooshing of air as the blades pass the tower and stop the cables in the tower from twisting up.

I have always been a sunshine and rain sort of guy. When it is sunny here it is raining somewhere else and vice versa – up sides and downsides and any modification to the climate is something we are going to take on the chin if we want the up side. Continents have been moving around since long before man came on the scene and the climate has always been changing. Apparently the Sahara was lush and green at one time. I also don't think we should be too troubled by running the Universe down. I don't think it is going to have a problem with us whatever we do.

I have always had a problem understanding one aspect of small scale power generation, so if anyone knows the answer.... In a central power station, no matter how the steam is generated, there are always two turbines side by side in the generator hall. They are used alternately one at a time. This is to reduce wear and tear and allow maintenance jobs to be carried out. Every generator supplying to the grid has to be perfectly synchronised with every other generator in the grid. Each must supply exactly 60 Hertz (in USA, 50Hz elsewhere) and the phases must align perfectly. It is common for one generator to run for up to 24 hours whilst the phases are aligned perfectly before the operating one is switched off. If this is not done there will be eddy currents in the system and this possibility is something nobody wants to know about. Does anybody know how this is eliminated with solar or variable speed wind farms?

Murph, I know this is going to come over badly but it is not meant to. We are all aware of the fossil fuel problem and you have discussed the problems with so called sustainable systems as you see them, as it is right to do so but is there any system that you can see which offers even a partial solution to the problem or don't you think there should be a solution at all? You have mentioned the possibility of eventually scrapping the grid and making all systems local. Maybe this is the way it will eventually have to go and we will all have to live simpler lives and be the better for it. Any thoughts?

Anonymous said...


I am nothing if not predictable and whenever this topic comes around I say heat pumps and Stirling Engines. I expect to throw a coffee set away every eighteen months to two years but I have never thrown a fridge away because it stopped working, there is just nothing to go wrong with them (apart from the time my lady Wife decided to defrost one with a hammer and screwdriver, but that is another story we will quickly gloss over - shh). A Stirling Engine is just using a closed system heating and cooling cycle to drive a motor. It is a back to front fridge and the technology has been around for years. Yes I know there is a bit more to the mechanics than that and it does use a bit more natural resources in the manufacture but they work. Maybe the reason it has never been commercially developed is because it is successful. There are a few on the market but they seem to be in the recovering costs stage so the $ / Kwh are high at the moment but this must come down as the system becomes more popular.

Here are a couple of links:
(This one is a forum)

There is also a company called Kockums who reportedly make large scale Stirling engines for submarines but they tend to be a bit secretive about what they do.

Finally for now, I want to ask Gd what it was that Pons & Fleischmann were up to, if you know?
At the time when I heard about cold fusion these two words are such an oxymoron I immediately dismissed it as BS. From what you say this was just a handle put on the process by someone else possibly to discredit it. It seems to be some sort of room temperature energy extraction or generation but I can't imagine that it has anything to do with nuclear fusion. If there is no heat generated then where is the advantage in the process? Why did P & F not put the records straight at the time or explain it further in lay terms?

Anonymous said...

Here is a NOVA program on drones aired last week. Very interesting what they are seeing now. Be careful what you do outside, they will see you!

Anonymous said...


Anon 1:55

I have heard that wrapping yourself up in ordinary cling film plastic renders you invisible to both satellites and night vision binoculars. A bit uncomfortable but it gets the job done. Have you heard of this one?

Anonymous said...

Sorry about not posting my name. I have been having trouble making postings on blogs, YouTube and Facebook. Are "they" watching me?
Murph, have you been up to the Columbia River Gorge lately? Must be hundreds if not thousands of wind turbines there now. Biggs Junction area, U.S. 97. Both sides of the river.
I am wondering what all that is doing to the wind patterns that blow through there? Back in the early to mid 70's, Boeing put up a wind turbine for experminatal data. Was taken down several years later. This was in the Goodnoe Hills area of Washington, east of highway 97.


Anonymous said...

No, have never heard of such a thing. Wonder how it works.


murph said...


It's been probably 4 years since I was up at the Columbia Gorge. When I was there, I was blown away by he wind farms.

Keep in mind that I have no data at all on what effect such farms have on the weather, or how many it takes to make a measurable difference. I can say from a small background of physics that each windmill will have some effect, in one's and two's probably not measurable.

Did you read that article I linked to in the post?

Anonymous said...

SATS: Yeah that "cold fusion" moniker was derogatory from the start, seems to have had the intended effect. You can get a decent overview from the P&S wiki page

This is a good show on free energy devices from which covers P&S stuff

Off topic: I read this account of a lecture by an elite insider on the NWO back in 1969, hugely relevant IMO, well worth the (long) read, it filled in a few blanks for me on NWO reasoning/methodology. I'd like others to comment on it if'n yall wouldn't mind sparing a bit of time to read/skim through it, no rush :) Gd.

Anonymous said...

Yeah Gd, that was looooonng. And, a good many events foretold back then have come to true. Made me want to just slash my wrists.

You know, for the past few years I've been really leary of watching the Super Bowl. Always afraid that TPTB will trigger another false flag event to get Murikans to rally around the flag and drum-up hatred for all brown people -especially those who are sitting on top of OUR oil and selling it for Yuan instead of USD.

But, there's some good news! An asteroid is coming pretty close to the earth this weekend! And maybe, just maybe... got my fingers crossed, man.


Anonymous said...

Randy: If you find this stuff THAT depressing, don't read it for a while mate, take a break, it's not healthy.

A new acquaintance of mine came round for a "quick" coffee couple of days ago, we'd previously disagreed about global warming and I'd encouraged him not to take my word, but to do some research to get some historical perspective; he got a glimpse behind the NWO curtain and came back with questions, we ended up talking for 7 hours! At the end he asked me if I'd rather not have known all this global conspiracy stuff, if I'd have been better off not knowing about the agenda. I pondered for a few minutes, 13 yrs of research, yeah maybe I could have been more productive with my time, on the other hand if I had not searched for the truth and remained in the sheeple class, I wouldn't be here, I'd still be working 80 hours per week for someone else, trying to fulfill some societal imposed idea of what I should be doing, instead of doing what I really wanted with my life. I told him I'd take the truth route any day. I also warned him not to lose perspective when looking down the rabbit hole, enjoying life it the priority, knowing the truth is only a tool on that path.

I used to enjoy the Superbowl (in the 80's I was a redskins fan) but now I understand what it's really about, I don't care for any sport, or TV for that matter.

If I add up all the sport/trash TV I would have watched over the last 13 yrs, I think research was much more beneficial to my existence. Gd

Anonymous said...

on over lords of chaos (olc)... first, before i comment on the analysis and conclusions of the author (whoever that was from the olc site) i want to say that i'm convinced there is definitly an anti-life agenda about and from all appearances it can be argued that it has the upper hand. as randu noted, much has and is coming to pass. said agenda is what many commonly call the war between good and evil. is it real? you betcha!

my only comment on the author's analysis, interpretations and conclusions, which i'll put in the form of a question, is this: if we fight denial with denial, who wins?

in this case, the dark wizard (evil in the form of the NWO agenda) has engaged the light wizard (implied as self-proclaimed good) in a game the light wizard cannot win cuz the dark wizard knows how to play the denial game while the light wizard has no clue he's even being engaged in the game. the result is the light wizard traps himself inside his own denials. checkmate...p

freeacre said...

Despite how shallow, stupid, and banal it is, I am taking a break from all the serious stuff. I am dressed in gold and cranberry colors, am preparing chicken wings, hummus, spring rolls, and popcorn, and rooting for the '49ers. I am ready for some football!

Anonymous said...

Palooka's Wife said:


Anonymous said...

palooka sez.... ravens!!

rockpicker said...

Celente--War, and rumors of war...

murph said...


Boy, Celente can get on a rant can't he? If he is accurate at all, this might be a really grim year.

murph said...

Here is an interesting blurb by Jared Diamond that is worth watching only 11 min.

Anonymous said...

Murph re 11 minute blurb:

if I had a couple of hours to spare I could destroy almost everything he said. I agree it was blurb (though I suspect you didn't mean it in the literal)

definition of Blurb: A description of a product for promotional purposes.

I disagree it was worth watching for though, anything sponsored by the elites WWF is part of the NWO agenda. Gd.

murph said...


While you or anyone else may consider information/opinion from some individual as being tainted, (which I can agree with) I also look for the slips that add to the context.

I'd be curious as to how and what you would destroy in the film. His main thrust is concerning environmental issues and he is emphasizing climate change. If I remember right, you have disputed the concept of climate change as being real in previous comments. If so, than it is a matter of disputing data and expertise on the subject since there is a huge amount of information pro and con on the subject.

It appears to me that there are powerful forces and interests that support both sides of issues like this one. Sort of like the banks supporting Germany and the Allies during WWII, they couldn't lose since they supported both sides. The international arms dealers today are supporting both sides of all the conflicts currently going on.

Anyway, could you clarify what you are putting out there to dispute what Diamond is talking about?

Anonymous said...

Murph Pt1: CAGW is an elite tool. Look at the recent stuff on "climate sensitivity" (CS) even the die hard warmists are in mid climbdown, for the uninitiated, CS is the expected rise in temp for a doubling of CO2 levels, alarmist have been spouting 4.5+ degrees doom for years, this is based on BS models, empirical studies (based on observations of actual readings) put the figure at around 1.2 degrees see the graph and discussion in this article . Would the 1.2 degree figure be detrimental? Nope, even the alarmists agree anything below 2.0 degrees is beneficial, see this recent paper , and check the graph out.

This comment illustrates my logic over the years on this "with every passing year that the temperatures don’t rise, their sensitivity numbers have to be adjusted downward (global temps have not risen for 16 years now, despite a huge increase in Co2 over the same time period). Of course, they could have done that by including the period from 1945 to 1975 in their calculations where temperatures were falling as human CO2 emissions were ramping up.

To my mind their entire notion of climate sensitivity to human CO2 emissions goes right out the window when a few questions are asked:

1. What was responsible for the warming from 1912 to 1940? It clearly could not have been human CO2 emissions. Most of the rural areas of the US weren’t even electrified until the 1930′s and then most of the power was hydro. Why do we have significant warming without significant increases in CO2 emissions?... cont

Anonymous said...

pt 2

2. What was responsible for the cooling until the 1940′s to 1970′s when global human CO2 emissions were ramping up? Why do we have significant cooling while we have significant increases in global CO2 emissions?

3. Why have temperatures not risen since 1998 when we have a period of both increased air clarity due to emissions controls across most of the world and CO2 emission rates continuing to increase?

4. Why did the temperatures cool so drastically from the early 14th century to the late 19th century while world population was increasing and our CO2 emissions generally increasing? This is also a period of rather massive deforestation and land use change from forest / plains to agricultural.

5. Why have we still not “recovered” fully to the climate of the Medieval Warm Period despite massive amounts of human CO2 emissions generated since that time?

There is only one roughly 30 year period where temperature rise correlates with CO2 emissions. Why are data changed retroactively in such a way as the trend of the changes (in every database of surface temperatures) always act to validate the AGW hypothesis? Why do we have several hundred years of temperature data that show no correlation of temperature change with atmospheric CO2, one roughly 30 year period when they do correlate, and a global alarm sounded that the CO2 is going to cause grave consequences?

Why are the people sounding the alarm that industrial activity and its requisite energy production will cause temperatures to rise to catastrophic levels the same ones who were claiming in the 1970′s that industrial activity and its requisite energy production was going to trigger another ice age?

From a person on the sidelines looking at what is going on, it appears that the goal is to reduce industrial activity and energy production in certain areas but not other areas and then finding some grave economic consequence in order to justify those policy decisions. In other words, it appears that there is an attempt to develop problems that can be used to justify the desired course of action."

This is also worth reading for some illustrative perspective: In Their Own Words: Climate Alarmists Debunk Their "Science"

Anyone still spouting the "overpopulation" meme has clearly failed to understand global demographics, see this pdf from the CIA boomers will be dieing at much faster rate then replacement, hence we see massive immigration, like the recent US thing naturalizing 10+million illegals, or the massive immigration influx we have had here since the 1950's (this also has another NWO motive, keeping people separate, encouraging racial disharmony etc.) overpopulation is a NWO/eugenics meme.

About the only thing I agreed with was the soil erosion thing, which is the #1 environmental issue, I could go on but don't have time...Gd.

Anonymous said...

Ok, problem I have with it all is this....

Why would Fox News and other ultra-right-wing outlets deny and scoff at GW/CC? I mean, I doubt if there's ever been an utterance of truth to come out of the mouths of Bill-O, Hannity, Coulter and the rest of the "hate" mongers on that network. Plus, it would be in their best interests to alarm the world of GW and CC -Carbon Credits anybody?

Or, is it all just another issue for TPTB to exploit in their "divide and rule" agenda?

I donno... just say'in...


murph said...


I understand the arguments concerning anthropomorphic global warming. As I understood the thrust of the video, that was not what he was contending.

We need to find some common ground on this issue and then proceed from there. I am currently standing on these points;
1. It sure enough appears to me that we are experiencing global climate change. Whether it is anthropomorphic or not can be debated, but can we agree that change is happening?
2. I have seen the figures concerning demographic changes and birth rate decline in some countries. That does not preclude the assertion that there is a current overpopulation problem. There is a lot of contention as to just how many humans can be supported on the planet at what standard of living and for how long. That PDF paper from the CIA you linked to doesn't even attempt to answer that question. Please notice that on page 74 and onward, there is discussion in the document about the effects of demographic change on resources. It is not optimistic. So, I fail to see the relevance of the link to the concern about total population in the world.
3. Can we agree that most of the essential resources upon which modern living depends in the world are finite?
4. Can we agree that regardless of demographic shifts, if world population increases that this will put a greater strain on the worlds resources?
5. Yes, soil erosion is a big problem, but not the only one. We are also poisoning the land with our farming practices. Every bit of information I have accumulated over the last 5 years indicates this is true. Agree or not?
5. With extremely few exceptions, most of the populated parts of the world has been increasingly exposed to nuclear radiation from multiple sources. Large war torn areas are now so contaminated with depleted uranium that habitation of the areas is becoming very problematical.

At this time, with the information I have seen and checked out, it appears to me that Diamond is not that far off in his assessment. We may argue over some of his points but I think overall, it is pretty accurate.

Anonymous said...

Randy: I have never seen FN, but if it's anything like the rest of the newscorp output, I imagine that for those who put any credence into the Left Vs Right false dichotomy, it would re-enforce their beliefs/world view (from either side) i.e. it bolsters the false dichotomy. Gd.

Anonymous said...


1. Sure, climate changes, it always has, it's natural, that's my point, we adapt, always have. Can we adapt to a cooler plantet? We'll have to!
2. Where, specifically, is there an overpopulation issue? Lets start there.
3. I'll come back to this when I have more time
4. Is world population increasing now, and is it forecast to continue to infinity?
5. I didn't say it was the only issue, just the #1 issue. I agree current land practices are a big problem, linked I would say to eugenics, i.e. it is agenda driven, also see GMOs etc. BUT, it doesn't have to be, this could be reversed in short order (8-10yrs)
(5.1?) lets call it 6. :) Part of the elites eugenics/depopulation agenda, Diamond is clearly part of this agenda, hypocrisy much?

When he says Climate change he means CAGW, not natural changes, so no he is not correct, by a long shot, he is promoting NWO agenda, the biggest lies have some truth to them, or no-one would believe (didn't the Nazis say something like this) Must rush, guitar night calls :) Gd.

rockpicker said...

Let's not leave out this intriguing element of the equation.

Also, as I've said in the past, ALL the planets in our solar system are showing signs of warming. Disprove that, or incorporate it into the argument, but don't ignore it. That's not fair.

murph said...

RP I can't make that link work

rockpicker said...

Murph; Sorry about that. It works for me. Try searching the title.

Unsealed Conspiracy Files S1 E6 HAARP Around The World

Anonymous said...

Ok, to continue in my confusion...

So, because Fox Noise spews anti-climate change vomit, I have to believe that climate change is real. I mean, Faux News = Lies. But then when you see Al Gore basking in his gigundous Malibu mansion (is it 37 acres with pools, garages, 8.5 bathrooms?), you have to wonder if this guy actually believes what he preaches. I mean, if all he says is true, then I would think that, ah, maybe he'd want to lesson his carbon footprint a bit?

But, ya know... since I live in a small house with a small yard, conserve water (cisterns, etc.), thermistate down to 67 degrees, don't fly anymore, walk and ride my bike as much as I can (good exercise), use the car sparingly (it's too old to drive long distances anymore), use the scooter for around town and a few other things, there's not much I can do about climate change no matter if it's the 'DOOM' of us all or total BS.


rockpicker said...

Here's another link concerning weather manipulation using electromagnetics.

Randy; I'm convinced our doom will be delivered compliments of the corporate State.

rockpicker said...

From Steve Quayle's Alerts page:


Steve,The Drudge Report Headline "EXCLUSIVE: Justice Department memo reveals legal case for drone strikes on Americans," is old news based on what I've been hearing from USAF pilots I know from one of the local bases. It was explained to me that many of the pilots are seriously considering leaving their careers in the USAF due to the training they have been receiving in the last 4 years! They are in fact being trained to fire their weapons into anything from cities, homes, businesses, and even public demonstrations!!! I should have told you about this 3 months ago when I heard about this but I figured something of this magnitude would be leaked out. This headline on Drudge is just the tip of the iceberg and yet I see no outrage from the public or media? I've told this to some extreme liberals I know and it just did not register with them how significant this was:This news sent shivers down my spine, and the responses I've received from people is beyond explanation. If this was G.W. Bush he would have been attacked, chained, and impeached within days! What's going on Steve?"

Feb 5, 2013

rockpicker said...

Idle No More, protecting the tar sands...

rockpicker said...

From "Report From Iron Mountain," summary and conclusions, substitutes for the Functions of War: Models

"The following substitute institutions, among others, have been proposed for consideration as replacements for the nonmilitary functions of war. That they may not have been originally set forth for that purpose does not preclude or invalidate their possible application here.

1. Economic. (a) A comprehensive social-welfare program, directed toward maximum improvement of general conditions of life. (b) A giant open-end space research program, aimed at unreachable targets. (c) A permanent, ritualized, ultra-elaborate disarmament inspection system, and variants of such a system.

2. Political. (a) An omnipresent, virtually omnipotent international police force. (b) An established and recognized extraterrestrial menace. (c) Massive global environmental pollution. (d) Fictitious alternate enemies..."

Sound like satire to you?

Previous to this it states,"...A viable political substitute for war must posit a generalized external menace to each society of a nature and degree sufficient to require the organization and acceptance of political authority."

It's a straight-forward blueprint for maintaining the rulers' domination over the rest of us. Agenda 21 is merely a subset of this comprehensive plan.

rockpicker said...

'Bout time...

Anonymous said...

Murph: Diamond is historian, he bases all his environmental doom scenarios in that context, I see him as a shill for the NWO rather than a useful idiot.

If human-caused environmental problems are such a large factor in human history they'd be expected to explain a lot more of history than they actually do explain. Lots of other things bring down civilizations. In fact, environmental problems caused by human action are the exceptions. Climate trends have certainly caused many civilization collapses (e.g. little ice age coincided with Easter Island collapse, as did conquerors from Europe arriving). But those were natural climate trends and were not the result of human action.

Human interaction with other humans, whether in war or palace intrigue or in promotion of religious beliefs or concepts of organizing societies, was and remains is the biggest cause of the rise and fall of civilizations, they were mostly conquered out of existence.

Back to #3, finite resources: Course the planet is finite, but it's also a big planet, to take an extreme example to make a point, salt is a finite resource too, don't see us ever running out of salt do you?

RP re your HAARP controlled weather link: It sets it stall out from the get go..."brutal heat in the summer, bitter cold in the winter, Violent weather patterns occurring across the globe...with more frequency...and greater destructive capabilities than ever before" This is not true, non of it, period.

Maybe they are fucking about with the weather, but it ain't showing up in historical weather trends (longer records than the 30yr mean the hung global warming on anyway, which incidentally only lasted 22yrs) the planet has failed to increase average temps for 16 yrs now, if this trend continues for another 6yrs to equal the warming trend length (and I contend it will as the ocean cycles are in a 30yr cooling phase) will we see an end to the CAGW nonsense? I predict they will claim AGW caused global cooling, as they did in the 70's (same people too). "Climate disruption" is bollocks, to cover for the failed AGW nonsense as the planet continues in it's natural cycles and cools. As an aside Bilderberg had global cooling on it's 2010 agenda. Gd

rockpicker said...

GD; I don't have the background to argue with you on the stats, but our winters have gotten warmer and drier of late, here in the Northern USA Rockies. Summer's, warmer and drier. Could be natural cycle. Could be man-manipulated.

I'd be interested in hearing your opinion on this video.

Anonymous said...

RP re video: she make some spurious links IMO, looks like an odd cloud formation made the sunset/rise look a bit odd but to then claim this is something man made, to melt the ice at the Antarctic, is definitely wrong. Antarctic ice is increasing, has been for around 30yrs. Arctic ice is doing nothing outside it's normal cyclic increase/decrease, this is well documented in the historical record. (I can find a link to historical evidence if you're interested) The claimed footage from the ISS looks odd, I think the viewing angle from the ISS would be much higher than shown, my first thought about the footage was that it was showing an effect of the aurora australis (southern lights).

Regarding changing local climates, look at your local weather records around the 1940 mark, from my research this is the most recent time the ocean cycles were most similar to now in their cycles, so the local weather now should be similar to then (it is in the UK where I have studied historical records a great deal, I have heard other researchers make similar observations for other parts of the world) Look at a few yrs either side of 1940, I think the dustbowl drought of the 30's coincides with the current Texas drought. Similarities won't be "exact" as the Sun is responsible for jet stream shifts, Weather Action uses Sun observations to make pretty accurate long term global weather forecasts, having followed WA for some yrs I would say WA have shown a definite link, but historical Sun flare records are scant so it's difficult to hindcast back to the late 30's.

I think this is the only way to get a good impression of what is happening, and what to expect in the near future for ones local climate. Gd.

Anonymous said...

Looks like the next leg down of the financial collapse could be coming soon...

Something I've known intuitively for years, having tasted the gunk only once, I refuse to eat it, much prefer my crumpets dripping in Butter :) Butter is GOOD for you - and margarine is chemical gunk

This is a good, logical, piece for anyone still believing the AGW/climate disruption hype Emergent Climate Phenomena

Anonymous said...

Anyone read this?

The Intelligent Gardener: Growing Nutrient Dense Food by Steve Solomon and Erica Reinheimer

One of the authors recommended it on one of my yahoo lists, "influenced by the work of Albrecht, Astera, Zimmer, McKibben, Lowenfels, and more. In your own backyard, you can grow much better food than you can buy. The foundation is balancing the minerals in the soil."

I am from the "loads of organic matter cures all ills" (including mulching and aerated compost teas) school of thought, never really paid much attention to soil testing beyond the "jam jar" test to show the make up% of ingredients. Gd

Anonymous said...

Whoa! I just read the description and reviews of "The Inelligent Gardener" on Amazon...







I've heard of "Gardening When It Counts" and thought about checking it out at the library, but this one might be something I should always have on hand.

Thanks GD


Anonymous said...

Oh, and thanks also for the "doomage" article.

I love the smell of "DOOM" in the morning...

Smell like....


But hey! Maybe this here asteroid could do some "DOOM" on us next week!



rockpicker said...

from Quayle:



Feb 8, 2013

rockpicker said...

GD; Thanks. Always liked Piers Corbyn from the moment I laid eyes on him. And from what little I know of his research and predictions, he's been right a lot more often than the MET.

Quayle says boogies are coming out of the abyss in the Solomons...

Anonymous said...

I too have used Solomons  methods, have both books, "Gardening West of the Cascades" and "Gardening When it Counts". Also using his COF for several years with good results.
But I keep asking myself, is there a better way, am I missing something? I kept looking at nature and seeing things I could not comprehend at the time. But finally when it was brought to my attention, my eyes were opened up.
It's all about money. Money spent on amendments, money spent on seminars, lectures, books, soil tests, fertilizers etc., etc.
How are plants, trees and other things growing out in nature, getting their food and fertilizer? Who takes care of nature and keeps it growing? Those high mountain meadows of wildflowers in all their splendor?
That's when I was introduced to Ramial Chipped Wood. Do a search for this and you will find out about this amazing product that nature has been using for thousands of years. Leaves, needles,branches, small twigs, pine cones, all returning nutrients to the soil. And the best part is, it's FREE!
I have been in contact with folks across the states and have found out that they have been using wood chips for years and having remarkable results. Plants that are loaded with nutrients and vitamins. And they have not had to add any kind of amendments! Nature has done this for them.


rockpicker said...

Well, I'd have to say this is a big deal.

rockpicker said...

What I want to know is , how come nobody seems to find it curious that mainstream media can predict a super snowstorm five or six days in advance, and hit it dead on, timing, location, everything, dead on. Doesn't that sound a little fishy?

Anonymous said...

rp: Piers Corbyn Forcast the storm 45 days out Links here he uses "SWIP" Solar Weather Impact Periods, the technique involves Sun observations modulated by Lunar & astrological tides (mainly the moon & Pluto I think) it seems the long term weather cycles (20, 30, 120, 1200 yr cycles) are really ocean cycles modulated by gravity effects of planets on the Sun. His long term forecasts (45days out) predict effects on the stratosphere from the Sun enabling some prediction of jet stream shifts which cause the blocking highs, which in turn bring either warm equatorial air, or cold Arctic air to dominate the NH etc.

re sandy hook: the more I see the more it looks like a staged eventstaged event

Bexar: good observations, I concur regarding natures natural fertilizing, you don't see anyone fertilizing forests and they're the most productive growing systems on earth! I am developing a staged system to introduce woodchip, since it takes 12-18 months to compost sufficiently, I use chips on deep paths (dug on contour to help drought-proof the raised beds either side) in winter I return the composted chip off the paths onto the beds and apply fresh chip to the paths. I have also mulched perennial areas with 18" fresh chip this yr since I now have access to all the chip I need after advertising free chip tipping to tree surgery firms, I also got a few cord of free wood as a bonus! For the uninitiated I have recommended the online film "back to Eden" before here, if one can get over the Christian overtones in the film, you can learn all you need to know about woodchp from it :) Gd.

Anonymous said...

Murph: Think you'll like this "Dr. Gerald Pollack, UW professor of bioengineering, has developed a theory of water that has been called revolutionary. The researcher has spent the past decade convincing worldwide audiences that water is not actually a liquid. Pollack explains his fascinating theory in this 32nd Annual Faculty Lecture."

Water, Energy, and Life: Fresh Views From the Water's Edge

Provides a fascinating look at some properties of water, indicating it may be a liquid crystal, with potential (adding some sunlight) for unlimited electrical power! Gd

freeacre said...

Hey, folks. I'm going to be away from the fire for a few days. Going to play tourist in Portland with a friend. I'll take some pictures. Carry on. I'll be thinking warm thoughts of you.

whitewater fraggle said...

Great video links, GD. Both videos showing the Washington Love!

So, "Back to Eden" was pretty cool. Definitely some heavy, heavy religion in there, but hell that guy seemed pretty reflective to me. I loved his thoughts on all living things needing a skin or covering and since soil is living it "wants" a covering. Never though of it that way, but I am a believer. Now Im in the market for a wood chipper.

On the water molecule lecture, one clarifying question: Did anyone catch why the exclusion zone has a negative charge and the area outside of this containing solutes has a positive charge? I believe this gets at the power of generating energy from water, but the dipole nature of water does not explain why these two areas would have different charges.

And if your looking for a drinking game, dont drink after every time he says the word water. You will be getting your stomach pumped at the ER.

rockpicker said...

GD, et al; Just ran onto this interview w/ Dr. Judy Wood and Andrew Johnson. Thought you might enjoy it, if you haven't seen it.

Anonymous said...

Jeebus, man, after reading the latest from Paul C. Roberts, Glen Greenwald and others this week, I was about ready to slit my wrists. Ok, probably not that -guzzling beer is more my style. I just wonder where this is all leading to or what it's going to look like when TSHF.

On Thursdays I look forward to reading the latest Arch Druid Report post, probably because he writes a more macro view of everything which is somewhat calming to me as opposed to the writings of others telling me that the cops, CIA, FBI, courts, Obummer are coming to lock me up or blast my ass via drone any minute. He writes like the old masters on "Kung Fu," "Ahh, Grasshopper, fear not..."

Anyway, 4 out of 5 sweet peppers are up and about an inch or two tall and this weekend I'll be starting some tomatoes and maybe some onions. I had to gave away my Baker Creek seed catalog because I was getting anxious and depressed looking at all the nice pictures... wishing for winter to be overwith.


rockpicker said...

Randy; How's the air quality down there? I've got rhubarbs poking their impudent pink noses out from under last year's dead leaves. Won't be long now...

Anonymous said...

Air is bad, RP. We had 22 days of bad, "RED" air days in January -worst air quality in the nation. We had 5 red days last week and we're in a red air day today which will continue for another 5 or 6 days 'cause there's no storms on the horizon. I wear a mask when I'm on my 15 minute walk to work in the morning and evening. You can't see the mountains, the city and there's a strange mist everywhere you look.

Oh -and I should've been more specific. I put my heirloom seeds in milk cartons full of organic goodness and place a gallon ziplock bag over each and sit them the three windowsills that face South. The bag makes a little humid terrarium and up come the little seedlings. As for the garden, I brushed the snow off the hoop house this past weekend and noticed that I still have kale growing inside. Kale is sooooo cooool and here's a great Kale Salad Recipe:

Hope FA's having a good time in Portland. I lived there for three years a good while back and loved it -yes, even the rain. When I was there it had the reputation of being "Micro-brewery Capitol of the Country," which of course, to me is.. well, "Mecca."
Why the hell did I leave, dangit?!


Anonymous said...

Hey -might this meteor that hit Russia have something to do with the asteroid?


whitewater fraggle said...

I've been thinking a lot about wood chips recently and I have a question for some of the permies in the audience.

I live in Washington state and on my 5 acres there are a few plants that just love to grow all by themselves. Considering what I know about wood chip gardening, small diameter material is best and these plants fit that bill especially when pruned: Alder, willow, and salmon berry.
Today is the first day it feels like spring and I have been thinking about when would be the best time to mulch these guys? Right after they bloom in the spring? In the forest nutrient cycle, I doubt the plants are continually pulling equal amounts of nutrients from the ground all year round. Is there a better time of year to catch the pulse and then transport those nutrients to your beds?

Anonymous said...


Here is an article that may help you out about wood chips and which part is the best.

And one more.


Anonymous said...


Here is another one for you.

From what I read, anytime is good to chip. Mulching could be done now, but it sounds like fall is a better time, this gives the chips time to break down. The nutrients are locked in the smaller branches, 3 inches and less.

The articles will explain it more.

Good luck.


whitewater fraggle said...

Thanks, Bexar!
Im having my environmental science students build TLUD bio char devices based on those designs you gave me. Hoping to have compost as beautiful as the stuff that was in your jar.

Anonymous said...

WF: The coppiced stools will respond better if you cut them when the sap is down IMO, but they should still bounce back pretty much anytime as long as it's not about to freeze. Avoid nesting season too.

Winter chipped brash will have lower Nitrogen levels than brash chipped with leaves on, so will take longer to compost, it's good for the soil microbiology to have leaves in too, leaf exudates are a good food source for soil biota. I wouldn't wait to try to maximize nutrient content, I'd rather have a 4 ton pile that'd been composting for 6 months than a fresh pile in the middle of next summer!

I have a tractor driven 8" chipper, I only chip small branches <2" mostly willow, Some Poplar. In a full day, with brash to hand, I can chip aprox 4 cubic meters. Seriously consider ringing your local tree surgery/garden firms and offering them a fee tip for chip, it goes nowhere when you start spreading it, if you have 5 acres you will never have too much woodchip, after 2 yrs when you get a big pile composted and you really fall in love with it, you'll realize you can never have too much composted woodchip so anytime is best to chip it and get it composting :)

rp: cheers for the vid link, also has an new interview with Dr. Wood up. Gd.

Anonymous said...

whitewater,If you search youtube for L2survive, you will find several videos he has made up at Paul Gautschis place in Sequim. L2 lives in Port Orchard, not far from you.Some if not most, have bible talk, but overall, there is good info coming from Paul. I have spoken with him on the phone as well as visiting his place. i just let his bible talk slide over, as long as he doesn't try to convert me. Been there done that.

also on growingyourgreens video, he has a segment on a couple in Portland using wood chips and the success they are having.


Anonymous said...

That Stirling Engine plans are a FRAUD. Yes the stirling engine does work, but no you ain't going to power your whole home with one.

You're better off taking that $300 and slapping it down for a pair of harbor freight solar kits. At least that way you will actually be generating electricity you can use.

If you are a little more bold, take that $300 over to amazon and get a pair of 145 watt panels, then slowly build up a system.

Also, look for Mr2Tuff's videos, he shows how to make hydrogen from your solar generator. Maybe you could heat your home with HYDROGEN? Though, I don't know, and so that's probably stretching it. But who knows, the technology only gets better when people experiment, maybe you can heat your home? I don't know for sure, but I do know that a pair of panels will make enough juice to power all your batteries and crap. Although there are HIDDEN COSTS, like when ya nail that plywood up on the wall and start attaching voltage controllers and bus bar's and inverters and big ass wires to the batteries. All that hardware and wire and boxes and batteries cost.

2ea 145 watt panels $320
1ea charge controller $99
#10 copper wire 100' ouch...$$$ more than a dollar a foot??
2ea BusBar $10
1ea 400 watt inverter full sine $125
1ea 55 AH battery $150
1 ea 12 amp extension cord $45
1ea pack of butt splices (screw the $14 MC4's) $5.00

It's like $500 to get started seriously at the bottom end. Makes those harbor freights hard to beat at the beginning, but when you consider on monocrystaline panel can do the same as three harbor freight kits.. in one single kit's space, well it maybe smarter to start with the bigger 10 AMP / smaller SIZED monocrystaline panels

just sayin, these prices go up and down depending on if you can get stuff free, or figure it out DIY style. I am by no means an expert, but I am dabbling with Mr2Tuff's hydrogen experiments, on my own.

rockpicker said...

What about the Angus Effect 2Tuff's been demonstrating? Know anything about that? I've watched those videos several times and still am not sure how what he's showing us translates into cheaper, more abundant electricity. Can you elucidate?

On another subject, check out this article.

"...the scientists express confidence that their recommendations “can be carried out in a way that abides by the principles of representative democracy, including transparency, fairness, and accountability.”

Like, say for instance, the way in which geoengineering has been handled? Oh, yeah. I feel my compliance eroding already, big-time, into a deeply dissected landscape of militant, self-preservative resistance!

rockpicker said...

Oh, boy!

Anonymous said...



Anonymous said...

21WIRE reporter Patrick Henningsen investigates the groundbreaking free energy science and advanced space ship technology brought into the public domain by Iranian nuclear physicist, Dr M.T. Keshe, head of the Keshe Foundation in Belgium. Keshe’s recent lecture on Jan. 30, 2013 at Imperial College in London, revealed some incredible information about Iran’s space ship program, and also about a Peace Treaty which is currently in the hands of the world’s super powers, as we wait to see how the the world’s ‘super-powers’ will react to these new advanced breakthroughs which Keshe himself has stated publicly, have already enabled Iran to apprehend not one, but two US drones. Other applications include faster than light travel, nuclear gravity-magnetic field plasma free energy reactors and advanced medical treatment for the terminally ill.

The implications of what Keshe has revealed are potentially world changing… (Link to video 33mins)

Regarding the "peace treaty in the hands of the worlds superpowers" in the video Keshe claims Hilary Clinton flew into Iran on 2nd Dec to discuss this treaty, reports (like this one) seem to confirm the visit.

Interesting stuff! Gd

Anonymous said...

Important announcement by the Keshe Foundation:

Signing of the world peace treaty and World peace conference

The pdfs linked at the bottom of the page are definitely an eyebrow raiser!

"Following the signing of the World Peace Treaty by the leaders of the world on 21 March 2013, then on 21 April 2013 (the anniversary of the first international ambassadorial peace conference on 21 April 2012, which set the scene for this event), we invite all citizens of the world at the same time around the world to swear to the same World Peace Treaty, as individuals and in cooperation as their leaders did
the month before."..

.."In return the Keshe Foundation will release all its technologies, including plans and working units and technology for space, energy, health and food, to all mankind in one move and in one go on that day. With this we guarantee to make available an equal share of science, wealth, health
care, food, energy and freedom of space to every nation and person on
this planet."

I do hope this is not complete BS! 21st April? lets see what occurs!Gd

rockpicker said...

GD; That's a serious proposal, involving serious considerations. It challenges one's core beliefs to offer to give up guns, especially at a time when the US government is stocking up on weapons and ammunition for what appears to be a campaign against the civilian population.

This is from Steve Quayle's Alerts this a.m.:


Good afternoon,

I was looking at the following website this morning:

On the top of the page the site has a notice with the following information:

As a result from increased demand over the past few months we're experiencing delays in shipping on our Body Armor - which may go beyond stated ship times. Rest assured we want to get your armor to you as soon as possible, and are working hard to do so while maintaining our quality standards. Your business is very much appreciated! - AR500 Armor Team

Increased weapons and ammo demand I could understand, but I was curious as to why an armor company would see a jump in sales. So I decided to give them a call this morning and ask them what was causing such increased demand. Was it due to private citizens buying more than usual? Had the DHS, law enforcement and military recently placed large orders? Or was it simply a matter of all of the above happening at once?

The fellow who answered the phone was very friendly. I told him I had been to his site and was curious as to why they had such an increase in sales. "It spiked right after the November election," he told me. I then asked him who the majority of the buyers were. "Are private citizens fueling the increase in sales, or is it government types like the DHS, law enforcement and military?"

He quickly told me "all of them really, just an across the board increase from just about every type of buyer." I then asked him "So DHS, military and law enforcement have increased their purchases since November?" "Oh yes," he said, "we have a 6-8 week backlog."

I then told the man from AR500 about a phone call I had received from a friend yesterday. The person I spoke with had just received a phone call from one of his closest, life-long friends. The friend who called him spent some time in the Marines. While he was in the Corps he became very close friends with a man who now works in Washington, D.C. as an "International Advisor to the Pentagon."

Our friend told me that his friend hadn't talked to this "Int'l Advisor" in quite some time. So he didn't initiate the phone call, the Advisor called him out of the blue... continued below

rockpicker said...

...The advisor wanted him to know that "this guns and ammo grab is the real deal." He said "they are coming after guns, and they are going to squeeze ammo so bad that no one will be able to get any, and if you don't have an assault weapon by now, good luck. They will be impossible to get." While he didn't say a full-fledged gun ban was coming, he did say that the DHS "has another order in the works for ammo and AR-15's that will dwarf anything they have already purchased. They are going to absolutely strangle the market."

So … when I told this info to the man from AR500, he kind of chuckled and told me "that's funny, because I talked to a guy this morning that we do business with, he buys used brass, tumbles it, refurbishes it and re-sells it. He also makes new casings and sell those. He said he received a phone call yesterday from the gov't asking if he would fill a 50 billion round order for .223 casings."

"Did you say 50 billion? With a "B"?" I asked him.

He laughed and said "that's exactly what I said. And the guy told me he laughed at the caller from the gov't and asked the same thing ….. Did you say billion, with a B?"

Yes, the gov't official said. 50 billion.

I asked the man from AR500 if his business associate was going to fill the order. "He said he was going to try, but he had to buy a ton of brass and didn't know if he could find enough to fill it." I then told him what we needed was for ammo companies to tell the gov't to go pound sand.

My phone was dying as I was talking to the man from AR500, and my call quality wasn't as great as I would have liked. My mistake, I should have known better, but it's been a while since I interviewed anyone, and I certainly didn't expect to hear what I heard. I plan on calling him back tomorrow and getting a little more indepth info and see if I can't get the name of the man with the brass order and track him down and interview him.

Just thought I'd pass it along.

50 billion. With a B.

Something wicked this way comes.

Feb 26, 2013"

I think a radical change in consciousness would have to occur just to get such rational, fantastical proposals considered by people like Zbigniew Brzezinski and his ilk. What about FEMA camps; are they "tools of war?"

Is this a psy-op calculated to split civilian resistance to a New World Order take-over?

rockpicker said...

Might keep an eye out for this film.

Opens middle of March.

Anonymous said...

rp: I don't think the treaty thing is a psy-op, though I don't think it has the value/power/legitimacy one might be led to believe from a cursory glance either.

After researching Mr. Keshe,
his theories
his patents
claimed inventions
internet history (lots of videos)
previous (missed) deadlines for product delivery, and his, lets say "esoteric communications" with other legitimate groups trying to replicate his "reactor", looking at this for over 10 hours, I would say at the very least, he has, and his theories/inventions have, some credibility issues.

Have you ever met someone highly financially successful that is so highly intelligent, so highly functioning, that only after you know them well for months/years you suspect they are suffering from an as yet unnamed mental disorder? Mr. Keshe reminds me of someone like this I knew once, someone whose over enthusiasm for a project dressed as facts led to wild claims that cost me dearly.

I'll believe this has some potential the day he publicly rolls out the first working free energy reactor, which according to him is only a matter of months.

There are so many big "IF's" about all this that it couldn't be considered a psy-op in the sense you mean it. Gd.

Anonymous said...

haven't looked into any of this keshe thing yet but my initial reaction to the idea of this particular world peace treaty is warm and tender. and then, i immediatly remember our appalling track record when it comes to keeping peace treaties.

as to the grab... seems to me both sides are on the grab. in a grab war. sometimes fighting fire with fire is a good tactic that snuffs out both fires. but not with this one. it will not go well for either side. and that means it will not go well for any of the rest of us who see this as a no-win game for anyone. which really pisses me off cuz neither side recognizes how absoultely self-serving in a sick, narcisstic way that they are acting in this perceived grab for power!! no offense meant to anyone by that. its just the way i see it. and underneath all that both sides are runnin scared and hopin their rage will protect them. phooy!

here's the thing... if we know a radical change in consciousness is necessary to protect us from power-over, anti-life agendas, why put our eggs in a no-win game? we cannot beat denial with more denial ...p

rockpicker said...

What I see being asked of humanity is to step over the line separating the material from the spiritual.

The anti-warriors are challenged to put- up, to prove the courage of their convictions and stand disarmed, with remissive hearts, before the relentless crush of materialist iron.

Such immaculate sacrifice
demands too much man of me.

rockpicker said...

A banker admitting "we took down the economy," is analogous to Cheney and Rumsfeld admitting, "yeah, we took down the towers..."

rockpicker said...

Okay, things are getting serious now...

rockpicker said...

This is a good explanation of what the 2012 NDAA means to Americans.

rockpicker said...

Kevin Barret on Israelis celebrating 9/11.

Anonymous said...

What I see being asked of humanity is to step over the line separating the material from the spiritual.

well, thats one way to put it. which is to say heal the gap between the made-manifest and the maker (spirit). to realize we are not seperate from the creator but rather, differentiations OF the creator, interacting. when i look out my window, or look at you, or look in the mirror, everything i see is god, manifest. god, hidden in plain site! what we don't see are the interactions of energies that manifest into the forms we see.

yet, we believe we are not worthy. we were taught we are seperate. bullshit!!

there's nothing sacrificial in this. in fact, it is just the opposite. which is to say we do NOT have to die to live. thats an idea contrived by the anti-life agenda. its playing to a very nasty imprint in all of us. we've been conned into a game of sacrifice. the gun thing is just 1 reflection of this. gazillions of grunts sacrificing themselves in the name of defense of country, family, patriotism, loved ones. with god-on-our-side.

so it follows then that when we look 'out there' and see TPTB we are seeing god? you betcha!!! we're seeing god in a state of denial!!!!! when are we gonna figure out what is soooooo fucking obvious????

Anonymous said...

we are endowed as our own sustainable power source.

with that comes the challenge to accept or reject that endowment. everyone is given this right to choose for themselves which feels best to them. to live. or to die. to accept or deny. to be inside of love, or outside.

and if we accept, comes the responsibility of right use of power.

Anonymous said...

oppps... forgot to sign those. did i really need to? ...p

rockpicker said...

Some predict d'Nile will dry up.

rockpicker said...

Seriously, P, your conviction is inspirational.

Anonymous said...

thank you RP. that conviction is inspired, in part, by this campfire. my bros and sisters here are near and dear to my heart. you are... how can i say... proxies for the greater campfire. we, for the most part, are preachin to the choir. iow, each other. we keep finding evidence that we're gettin fucked. we share that info. the beat goes on. thats the problem part.

what's the solution? revolution? historically, yes. but those days are over. the playing field is no longer reasonably level. they won. long time ago! they own the money, they own the gov-ment. they own the law. they own the judges. they own our jobs. they own our time. they own us. they control our lives. we think that, because we're aware of this, they don't own us. but they do. they do because we're still stuck in it on toxic, energetic levels. which is to say spiritualloy, mentally, emotionally, and physically. 'round 'n 'round it goes. spin, spin, spin. and then we die.

and really, all revolution ever did was change some seats on the titanic.

the story of my sis and her family is instructive and metaphoric. she woke up in her twenties and slowly became aware that she came from a toxic family system. but she fell into the trap of thinking that, because she was aware, it didn't happen (nor continues to happen) in her own family. iow, the awareness delivered her from the prob. and by extension, her kids and grandkids. it didn't. all the awareness did was open the door. to see how what she came from was boundary-less, shame based, and soul killing. conditioning put into place under spiritual, mental, emotional, and physical abuse. conditioning put into place by, in a word, forms of torture. she hasn't realized this awareness was just the beginning. nor that she'd idealized her original authority figures and had inherited these dynamics, grew up, got married, had kids, and was passing them along. she thought because she did things differently that it would yield a different result. what she didn't see was that this was simply a form change. all the underlying, energetic dynamics were still running the show.

if she never goes thru that door she'll never know how she's still a victum to, AND a perp of, shame and guilt on energetic levels. and then do the very difficult inner work necessary to begin to stop the passing along of this soul killing, family dynamic to the next generations. at her age she probably won't.

so, here we are. gathered up 'round this fire. sharing the evidence we find. we're aware. aware we're gettin fucked. and really, thats not the prob part at all. thats the symptom. a reflection of very toxic family systems of all stripe. if we can begin to realize the prob is in us, inherited, this opens the door. we can begin to do something about it. we've owned the prob. acknowledged we've been hooked into playing our own personal role in a no-win game. which is all we can and should own. thats good news! that means we can begin to do something about it.

our futures are in our own hands. until we realize that, own it, and then work to untangle ourselves from this enegmatic web, we're feeding the monster. and its a killer!! ...p

Anonymous said...

P:".... and then work to untangle ourselves from this enegmatic web..."

I think we're all tryin P, all dwellers of the campfire seem to be, in our multitude of different ways. I'm not sure any of us are convinced our ways will work/are a complete answer, just our ways seem the best path to each of us atm! Gd.

ps Capchia word was "Unity" gotta love synchronicity ;¬)

rockpicker said...

Are we spiritual beings having a physical experience, or physical beings having a spiritual experience?

Clearly, some of us can't answer that question to our own satisfaction. Many of us have never considered the question and probably think it a silly waste of time pondering.

To me, it seems the utmost importance that we each decide an answer to this puzzle for ourselves, as it should logically determine on which side of the line we stand, how we decide what truly matters, in the final analysis. Assuming there is a final analysis...

Anonymous said...

Well, Chavez is gone -probably via CIA spiking his coffee with pulonium. Wonder if the Venezuelian people can resist the coming US sponsored chaos? Man, I am so tired of this country fucking with other countries in pursuit of profit. The comments section of the article in the local online paper is full of hate Chavez crap. It's just awful that people actually believe everything they're told by the US corporate media.

I know, I know the saying, "be careful what you wish for," but this crash cannot happen fast enough.


Anonymous said...


I will second that Randy, it is a sad day for Venezuela and the good people of the world in general. Maybe Chavez had such a charisma in his land the people are not in a mood to be fucked with. Sure the CIA will have their man in the wings to restore the oil industry to their perceived rightful owners and will be pulling the strings but let's see how things pan out. Moreles threw out Rummy's Bectel for playing hard ball but as I understand it a proportion of Venezuela’s oil industry is still privately owned so there is as much to preserve as there is to play for. I don't know the political figures in Venezuela but what the people have to be careful of is voting in a Quisling as happened in Argentina some years back. It has been a difficult year for the good guys of the world with the loss of Ben Ali, Gaddafi and now Chavez. Iran has lost a good friend, let us see if they can maintain a relationship with the new guy whoever it is. Sad times!

rockpicker said...

If we accede to Obama's contention that he holds a legitimate right to murder Americans, in America,(or anywhere,) using weaponized drones, then what would limit his use of troops to do the very same thing? No seasonal restrictions, and no bag limits. Yahoo! Every honest journalist, political enemy and annoying blogger becomes fair game! Every fist-shaking protestor, loosed of his free-speech zone collar and deemed a national threat by the thieves in power becomes a legal target. Every eloquent voice that rises impassioned above the divisive tumult, offering unity and direction, will find itself the focus of tyranny's cross-hairs.
Damned! if we let a man take away what our Creator has bestowed.