Sunday, May 4, 2014

Photos of the two rabbit skin blankets we made.   The first is the Indian style construction, taking 500 hrs to complete.  The second is a patch work quilt taking maybe 50 hours to complete.  

from Murph

Recently, SATS referred back to a posting he had written back in the day of Cyclon's blog. This was back in 2007. My goodness, that was 7 years ago. To refresh memory a bit, Cyclone's blog (the Real Deal) began in 2005 and Troutclan campfire began in 2007, spun off from the Real Deal. I go back and skim over the what was being written and discussed from 2005 to 2007 and notice that the disappointment and belligerence over the Bush administrations actions were now transferred to the present Obama administration. For all practical purposes, same bitches and complaints. With all our rants and discussion, sure changed things didn't it? LOL. Sure points out our collective influence in the present situation, ie, none. However, venting in print serves a purpose and perhaps disseminates information to some folks that would otherwise not ever see it.

The same analysis can be said of other blog sites that are no longer active. Mike Rupperts and Survival Acres are two that come immediately to mind. For Freeacre and I, Rupperts writing was very influential for us. So far, Ruppers predictions and revelation have show themselves to be pretty much right on, although the timing of some of the predictions was a bit off. Freeacre and I took to heart what Ruppert wrote and took action on that information. I shudder to think what would have been the consequences to us if we had not done so. It has turned out, in retrospect, to be the best decisions we could have made. So blogs do serve a function, at least for some folks.

On a broader perspective, our personal lives are always a matter of consequences for our decisions moment to moment. The disturbing aspect for me is that so many people are loath to recognize that this is how things work. We all have had the experience of consequences (usually unanticipated) of our actions and decisions. For most of us, the consequences are most of the time, not a serious handicap, and a great deal of the time not recognized until after the fact. It's those instances of negative consequences on our lives that will stick out and encourage us to think in terms of; “if only I had made a different decision”. In a far more primitive living arrangement, that can be fatal. Only in our advanced social systems are negative consequences often ameliorated to non lethal events of inconsequential or recoverable events. It disturbs me that so many folks I observe do not recognize this relationship, having the expectation that their decisions will have no serious negative consequences. I think most of us strive to eliminate the negative consequences to our decisions. Some folks are more successful than others. I would surmise that reduction of individual consequences is one purpose of how societies organize themselves. We might want to take a look at who benefits the most from these policies.

The big social problems I see today is that those folks with power and influence have, in the last number of decades, managed to by-pass most of the consequences for their actions. This is done by controlling the political and economic processes that operate in our society. However, the consequences from the thievery and manipulation will have consequences that appear to me to be extremely serious. It is showing up in scarcity of resources and adulteration of the environment, the deterioration of infrastructure and general deterioration of living conditions for most of society. In every society with a hierarchy of control, keep in mind that it is the decision by the public on who to give this control to that determines outcomes. In this country, we have been voting into this power structure folks that do not have our well being in mind and have been doing this from the beginning. The primary concern is immediate benefit and  supposedly advocating some ideology that never serves our overall benefit. I think I have lost all hope of most folks recognizing the deficiencies of this decision making process.

I have written multiple times concerning the consequences of social decisions and urged a return to more individual responsibility for our actions. I'm an old duffer with a serious cynical attitude and realization that what I have advocated, spoken of and written about has not been taken seriously by more than a handful of folks. I find that true for all of the folks that have been warning us for years concerning the consequences of of our decisions. And, maybe all the warnings put out there are just more shit to deal with. But, we took seriously one particular warning and benefited by that.

With all of the serious problems that we are exposed to in this tired old world, we are continually distracted by the emergency of the day and the lie of the day. I suppose that has been true every since people have been organizing themselves into societies and civilizations. That realization does not make the present any more palatable to me and I also suppose that is true for most of the folks that bother to read missives such as this. I also realize that any suggestions I make as to what to do about our present situation cannot possibly be taken seriously by more than a few folks, just too much to lose. It is apparent that the wealthy and powerful flat out don't care, they have a whole other agenda in mind. In a practical sense, we are in a giant catch 22 situation. Damned if we do and damned if we don't.

The premier of the doomer sites has finally signed off stating that we are all doomed anyway and any more effort to warn folks of impending disaster for all of us is a waste of effort. That was Survival Acres by the way. Only time will tell if his assessment turns out to be right. Many other doomer sites with not so quite an extreme vision just keep on insisting that things are going to shit or worse. So for the most part, we take it all in and continual to try and operate, bitching and hollering all the while. We may very well be seeing the future with some reasonable accuracy, but it's the timing thing that throws us off. If it doesn't happen in the time frame laid out, does that mean it won't happen? I suspect that for most folks, it's a matter of expectations that we will just keep muddling through until it doesn't work anymore.

Wherever we are going to, we will keep on going till it stops.


nina said...

We are thinking on similar lines I see. Praise Jah you took that warning seriously.

Try to make time to read this, if you have not already.

Your posts and Bho's post moved me deeply. It seems that if you want to get anything done beyond the confines of your safety zone, you meet the NW. It is a pandemic of perception. Some are more seriously affected than others. Some are hopeless, some are skeptical, some are paranoid, some are just stupid.

Love, nina

murph said...

Hi Nina,

Yes, we very frequently reflect back on that time and the decisions we made and how thankful we are to have done what we did.

I read the link. New site for me. Interesting reflections. I will look in on it periodically. Personally, I think he is dead on concerning the poisoning of the food. Freeacre bought some wild bird seed a bit back this winter. The birds won't touch it. What in hell did they put in the feed? GMO crap? I know our animals will not eat GMO if they have a choice.

I hate to appear stupid but what post you called Bho are you referring to and what is NW.

You forgot to include folks as myself that are righteously cynical. LOL

It has been some time since we last communicated. How are things going with you?

I am trying to recover from a serious pneumonia infection that knocked me down hard. Damn but I hate to be sick.

Love back at ya, Pat

nina said...

I am so sorry to hear you have been ailing, hope this finds you well on the mend.

The link is to Bholanath's new post, which you saw. NW is new world ... order.

Seems we all are coping as best we can. How did you get the infection? What have you been doing to recover? It is a blessing you are not alone.

izzy said...

Gotta say I like the first blanket style much better. Nice work.

Your points do resonate. I'm in a similar age group and situation, thankful to have already had a life, and concerned for much younger folks facing this big mess right out of the gate. Taking consolation in the understanding we're all actors in a huge karmic drama, but the day-to-day can be a bitch. Kind of too bad, but there's nothing to do except carry on.


murph said...


Docs say that the organisms for Pneumonia are around us all the time. Sort of like Rabbies is in the soil and is everywhere. I really have no idea how I came down with it. I spend very little time in larger groups of people, so maybe it was just a consequence of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I also am told that as we age our susceptibility to things like this increase. Not sure why that would be true. I was given a prescription of an antibiotic that is supposed to be the hardest hitting one for pneumonia on the market.


Thanks on the blanket. It was a really large project, much more money and time than I had anticipated. If I had an idea of how big, I would have downsized it quite a bit. As it was, it came out slightly smaller than intended and I ran out of hides and didn't want to buy more, had way too much money into it as it was.

For your information, we raise rabbits for the meat and I was loath to throw away the hides, which most rabbit raises do. I suppose I am insufferably "a waste not want not" kind of guy. So I taught myself how to tan hides. The original block blanket was the stockpile of hides I had tanned over a 2 year period. The second stripped blanket took 254 hides which would have meant taking 3-4 years of stockpiling them from our own rabbits, so I had to buy them. The method of constructing it is immensely time consuming all in itself and then I put a design into it. Thus the 500 hrs. It does go well inside our tipi in the back yard and is incredibly warm to sleep under. We recently had a young woman guest for a few days with 2 very young kids. They stayed in the tipi and it snowed every night. She insisted they were very comfortable and enjoyed the experience. So it can be a livable housing alternative.

Anonymous said...

Murph, hope you get well soon, dose up on your zinc & Vit C to give your immune system a well deserved boost, plenty of dark green veggies (I can teach sucking eggs too I guess LOL)

The first blanket is definitely a work of art, it's a credit to you mate. I wonder, do the blankets need any maintenance over time to keep them in good condition?

My meager attempts at tanning never really amounted to much, I used the pelts to make training dummies for the dogs in the end!

Seems MCRs passing has sparked some reflection for a lot of people. Jenna has posted up some posts about "Mikes story" on Mikes old FTW blog, Freeacre is quoted in one post, I went over there to read some of the old comments but read the new stuff instead.

Out of all the doom I've ever read, all those years of research, if there was ever an accurate map, the one that sticks in my mind as being closest to current events, it's Brzezinski and his Grand Chessboard, though now, with hindsight, I see it as the script of a bad play rather than geopolitical research.

I think one of the most succinct things MCR ever posted was the quote by Chekhov in the header...

"If there's a gun on the wall at the beginning of the play, by the end it must go off."

Seems to me the PTB will bring this prop to the fore, it is their trump card. There is a whole lot of worse that will happen, I hope I'm not around to see it, but I ain't checking out early to avoid it! Gd.

murph said...


Since the hides used in both blankets are actually tanned (not just softened raw hide) as far as I know, no maintenance. If they were oil tanned, might not be true. I have no proof of this but suspect that getting either blanket wet would not be good, even though the hides by tanning do not return to a hard state if gotten wet and dried out. I have proven that.

The stripped blanket was made from alum tanned hides from Spain. I've experimented with them and they will dry flexible after soaking them in water.

The smoke tanned hides in the block blanket don't get stretchy when gotten wet, but the alum tanned ones do but do not get hard. This shows that the binding material in the hide has been permanently altered.

Yup, since Brezinski is a policy adviser (maker) his predictions are bound to be more accurate. Rupperts predictions are far more observational position, usually not near as accurate, although in Rupperts case, our understanding of what he predicted is pretty right on and had more individual ramifications than Brezinski which emphasized more national and world wide moves. You are right IMO, Brezinski was putting out more of a play sequence rather than research due to his position in decision making.

It sure will be interesting if we can stick around long enough to see the culmination of the policies by the PTB.

Anonymous said...


Yes, perhaps bithching is the role that has been assigned for us. The ballyhoo at US election times always amazes me. It is not concidered debate but showtime. That people cannot see it would be the same dog and pony show with Romney or McCain at the helm and that both parties are one and the same party leaves me a little bit stuck for words. In that respect, I think that the American people in general are somewhat insular, still believing what they are told about them being the greatest nation on earth. Even one of their closest neighbours, the Cubans have a better lifestyle than most Americans. Still, there are non so blind as those who don't want to see.

Actions have consequences which is sometimes a bit of a bummer and sometimes not, depending who you are. The one which sticks in mind, amongst others, was the CEO of BP throwing his doll out of the pram and wanting his life back after the public got angry following his oil rig blowing up in the Mexican Gulf. Later it was reported that he was one of those accused of fiddling the interbanking LIBOR rate to his own advantage. Which begs the question of whether he should have had a life to have back. And poor ol Bernie Madhof, hey. Who would have thought he would be the one thrown to the dogs just to let the real foxes get further away. What about the government of Iceland banging up all those errant bankers. Didn't stop Goldmans going full steam ahead though. Let's hope they sail smack into an iceberg, although I doubt it somehow.

As for the chessboard, I think this is pretty bang on. The fact that he wrote it at all is probably the hubris of an untouchable. Although Brzinski calls himself a policy advisor, I have always regarded both him and Kissinger as Conciglieries (sp) for those that matter.

Anonymous said...


Hey Murph, I thought the larger rabbit skin blanket project was lost in the fire, that's why I never mentioned it again. Pleased to see all that work was not wasted. Cylinders of rabbit hides are bound to have less thermal conductivity and therefore be warmer than the same skins laid flat no matter what process is used. Everybody needs a project to feel the satisfaction of human endevour. Maybe that is what life is about. Is that profound or just stupid? Don't mind if you say stupid.

murph said...


LOL you? stupid? Not likely. I have much admiration for you.

The fire did burn up a blanket similar to the one in the photo, it was about 1/2 done.

The twisted boas of skin are not cylinders, although I could see how you might assume so. The strips are twisted quite tightly with little or no air gap. The thing that makes this kind of blanket so insulative is the actual fur. Read a research report on some investigators that did actual scientific study on rabbit skins and insulative quality. They proved to be better, than our best insulating when comparing thickness. Lewis and Clark traded their buffalo hide robes for rabbit skins robes because they were warmer and lighter.

The larger blanket made in that mode weighs 22 lbs. and has 254 hides in it. The block blanket weighs about 9 lbs and has 80 skins in it, however there was a lot of scrap in that one. The larger blanket had almost no scrap.

There actually is a whole lot of question about how the Indians made them. It is insinuated that they did not tan the skin, but cut the skin off the rabbit carcass going around the carcass, instead of spreading out the hide and cutting a continuous strip in a rough circle. Last year I took a raw hide and cut out the strip and twisted it and it became a very thin brittle stick with hair on it. Not at all what you would want in a blanket. The blanket I made is so limber that it makes it a bit difficult to handle. Neat blanket. However, you need to be sleeping close to the floor or not move around in bed much as the weight of the blanket lets it fall off the bed. If your close to the floor, it is a pleasure to be under and doesn't slide off the bed. Rabbit hair has near zero friction to it because it is so fine and what makes it such a good insulator.

The block blanket we backed with a Playboy satin sheet given to us. Good looking backing but a Mistake. Made that one so slippery it also will slide off the bed.

I have a hefty stack of dried/salted hides I am in the process of working on. When I get them all softened up I will smoke tan them. I think I might make a Shaw for freeacre in the Indian mode, or maybe a throw. Depends on how many hides I get done. They would make great baby blankets because they are so warm and soft.

freeacre said...

Well, this is just an observation for the evening. I read recently that the Chinese millionaires are buying up real estate in Detroit in a major way.

And,on Drudge tonight there is a piece about the Chinese are going to be patrolling the streets of Paris this summer to protect the Chinese tourists. It seems they have been picked on by French thugs and robbers.

Can you imagine Chinese cops patrolling the streets of Detroit??
Probably do 'em a lot of good when you think about it...

Man, break out the popcorn. This will be good.

Anonymous said...

git r advice from the kiss/bryz kiosk and we're sur ta be on the right track down the wrong road!

been kinda busy folks but checkin in now n then jes the same. its a comfort ya know!! like sittin down a spell over tea or a beer with familiar friends. n nobody has ta say a damn thing. but the soul shine n the body rest easy...

hey sats... ya know what happens to full ahead steamers in an iceberg patch eh? dey be doomed ta da bottom while the band plays on...

universe presents opportunity. always! n t'aint uncommon fer it ta b all wrapped up in doom.

yeah, i consider meself a doomer. somewhat in the classical sense but definitely cuz we're doomed to carry on. some call it the survival chakra's job. ta carry on in good times n then in times when good is all dressed up in what damn sure b bad. cuz a what it does ta folks already pushed, smacked, slammed, shoved. face first, hard against the bone.

if'n it feel like yer one of em and ya feel like yer under attack then, hell, yer feelin jes like me. cuz we are.

but there b reasons. and they ain't all them.

ya know the upside of benin down means we can do somethin 'bout it. n the downside of bein up means we b playin a roll in the whole damn tangled up mess. but thats a good thing. cuz then, we CAN do somethin about it. n we are! if'n nothin else but holdin space for a better time.

diggin dem hides, murphs... p

Anonymous said...


US T Bonds are secured loans. Secured against what? Well, bits of America that most folks are not all that interested in. So if or when the dollar goes tits up creditors (mostly Chinese) will be queueing up for their bits of America. Just like the the USA has city sized bases in the middle of the Iraqi desert, the Chinese could use Detroit as their base inside the US. What happens to all the folks that just happen to be on the land that is suddenly no longer theirs? Well, they could be protected by our boys in Iraq. I will bet they always fancied an extended holliday in the sun. Just sayin ;-)

Whilst I am doing all this soaking up of the human spirit, I have half a pint of beer in a pint glass an' I aint sayin if it is half empty or half full. But I know what it will be if I drink some more. :)

freeacre said...

Woke up to snow on the ground this morning. So much for global warming...

I attended a Wellness Workshop" hoping to get some support for the non-gluten path I am on. But, I was the only one who showed up. Pretty typical, I guess. Anyway, it turns out these guys are super serious about avoiding all the various chemicals and poisons that adulterate our food as well as eating non-gluten, non-GMO, etc. I am going to do their program, even though they are coming from a 'way Christian stance. But, I liked these people. For one thing, they lost 132 lbs. in four months and all their chronic illnesses. Tons of fruits and vegetables, a little meat and fish. No sugar, dairy, alcohol, peanuts, grains for a month, then introducing one thing at a time to determine what I am allergic to. Hope to heal from the pain I've been in for twelve years.

Anonymous said...

its the next day and morning ( early)after rockpicker and his friend stayed the night..... when the friend Roger, could not stay up until about three in the morning as rockpicker and i had much to say about and catch up on so many topics... and toss back a few medicine thingies and a puff or two.... well you know.
i think we clarified some issues that seem to haunt the magic stream called human adversities..... we came up with a solution to all of that kind of bullshit.. toss back a good micro brew, a toke off the peace pipe, a grin or two at the smoke as it roams around the room and undulates the hairy nostrils and a goddam that was a good hit and away we went..

it was good to see our old friend rockpicker and our new friend Roger after so many moons that have passed,, we talked of all of us getting together for at least one more celebration of creation, to hold hands and minds together before we join our ancestors in the cosmic dance called eternity by some folks.....the state of our routine seems to make that unable to happen unless the routine gets less appreciable and the awareness of our collectiveness just barges in and severs the illusions of those supposed necessities of pre plans....

so what is a mother fucker to do? .,, good question...
it was good to see the new post guys, like most i suspect that we check in from time to time just to see whats up, it connects us in a way that i''m pretty sure we all feel to be a part of, and we are thats for sure we are a tribe , a clan, and if the brain just becomes silent for a minute it can be all of us,
there is love to be passed around, can we not feel it? its funny because we are love, not love of self but just the energy of love itself, as it moves along touches us and moves on to the next creators hand of beauty and sensation...
out earthly bodies will be removed from us soon and then the awareness and complete connection as no apartness will occur because the illusion of separation is just that.... an illusion..we are one but also we are we...not one....
the lingering effects of smoke rings still hang on, it is obvious i suspect. i thank you rockpicker and roger the new friend for bringing the new light to my house... it still shines ... and old friends make it warm and friendly to the touch,,...
and that really good micro beer in jugs created in missoula and on wings to hot springs and us as nourishment for warming the soul .

good to hear from you guys P and Sats and the new gal to this renegade bunch of misfits
if we were in one teepee we probable would be arrested for disturbing the peace..;;;;
i love you all that channel this energy,



Anonymous said...


So I was in this second hand and over production bookshop in Holland the other day and I picked up this book called Human Devolution. It is the Hindu take on how we got to where we are now. He seems to be arguing that humans came from a state of pure conciousness somewhere in the universe and somehow acquired material bodies. Only just started it so I am pre guessing his argumant but it will be interesting to find out how humans came from a higher form to a lower form whilst the rest of nature is going from a lower form to a higher form. No matter, what I wanted to tell you about was this sweet seventeen something behind the counter whose job it was to take two bucks off everybody that walked up to her with a book. I plonked the book on the counter and said “I guess that you shouldn't just read books that stroke your own prejudices. You should read books you think you are not going to agree with and then you will either reinforce your own opinions or change your mind and that's a good thing.”
She looked at me like I had just grown another head and said “Huh, wah”??
I said “If I say so”?
She said “Huh, jeh” took my two bucks and went back to her comic strip.

Just thought I would share that one with you ;-)

Actually, denying the existence of a god but adding that Darwinism is full of holes and even Darwin acknowledged that he hadn't got all the answers but it was more right than wrong is a good way of throwing the Jehova's lot off balance. Then they don't know which bits you are going to pick on and then they have to think out their arguments on the hoof instead of going into standard rhetoric. Kind of tipping the balance on your own side.

Yoo,y'all mf & rp

Anonymous said...

back attchcha bro, there is love attached...


Anonymous said...

Our problem is, is it not, that our lives are empty, and we know no love; we know sensations, we know advertising, we know sexual demands, but there is no love. And how is this emptiness to be transformed, how is one to find that flame without smoke? Surely, that is the question, is it not?


Anonymous said...

mf & rp: You know it's a good chopsing session when the last topic you touch on is how the dawn light makes everything look so beautiful :)

Wish I coulda been there to fill that pipe for ya! Gd.

Anonymous said...


Ha Sabs, it has been a while. You might remember me better as my other persona FB. Have you heard anything from Nobs since he walked out into the sunset? Mind you, it was endings and new beginnings for him so maybe not.
I have not been into the Spooks site for a while. I had a feeling that in order to contribute, I had to be fluent or at least have a working knowlenge of HTML and although it is not supposed to be that difficult, I never seemed to have the time to put into it.

k.... Not sure which comment inspired your response but “The nature of love” is the eternal question people have posed since the year dot.
A film I liked but not thought that much of by others, was “The increadible lightness of being” Is that the feeling you are talking about? Yeah, the doctor who had the chat up technique of looking women in the eye and saying “Take off your clothes” was a bit silly in the extreem but later he actually fell in love and changed. How many would deliberately enter an occupied country with sealed borders under a harsh regime because he believed that wa person inside was better than everything else on the outside? Is that love? Well it might be an aspect of it. I saw another film on TV so missed the title. It was set at the end of the war and the heroine had fallen for the dashing fighter pilot who had lots of jolly chums. He made her laugh and everything was wonderfull. She told her landlady how much she was in love. The older woman replied “ You think what you have got is love? Love is wiping your husbands ass and changing the sheets after he has shit in bed, so you can both carry on with dignity”. Is that love or is it duty, anyway that's another take on it. Is it flitting from one romance into another so you can always be on the pinicle of your emotions? I used to wonder how much real love the likes of Liz Taylor or Za Za Gabor found in their lives. There is an old rhyme that goes:
Glances over cocktails, which always seem so sweet;
Never seem quite so amorous over Shreaded Wheat.
I guess that is saying, how can you define something that is constantly changing? So the definition can be whatever you want it to be.
The one which always made most sense to me is, love is what is over after being in love has ended. What is your take on it?

Anonymous said...

good look guys.... at least this one makes a little thump thump///

moons and feathers said...

right off the bat i am not k..... merely passing it the folks that i love as it seems to make sense to me...

thats all/mf.sabretache,

god i love you guys///

rockpicker said...

I think the word love is too big a four letter word to be of effective use in a poem. Coming on it is like a man raised among dry gulches coming on a great river. It stupefies.

I think there are two kinds of people. One believes in the spirit. The other rejects spirit and acknowledges only the temporal material world.

The one with spirit knows in his bones he came into this world with his body as his only possession. His body is a suit of clothes he needs to experience the three-dimensional. Thus, the basis for the concept of in-a-lienable rights. Specifically, property rights.

The one without spirit believes he IS his body. For him, existence in the temporal materium is a one-time shot. He is unfettered by superstition. The world around him can be sufficiently understood and explained by his science. Morality is a construct of human logic designed to keep the machinery of society running more or less smoothly. Sans a Creator, from whence are his in-a-lienable rights derived?

moons and feathers said...

right bro,love your approach , its excellent to the true....
tomorrow i take my granddaughters to the range and show them how to fire a real gun, they are five and four
its time!!!

murph said...


The question whether spirit is real or not is one of the large question man tries to deal with. You did not mention there is a third way to look at this; one of "I don't know", just as the question of whether God (with a capital G) actually exists. I think we call this agnosticism. Belief without proof and non-belief without proof (often called atheism)have the same result, shows up as very strong philosophical stances not open to argument. My concern is from a social organization, centers around how much public policy should be considered around any answer to this. Our Constitution sort of ignores the question putting it into a personal category of belief and keeping government out of it.

It always seems so strange to me that those folks with very strong beliefs in spirit and God very often (but not always) want to impose their belief on everyone else. I can't recall ever meeting a agnostic or an atheist that insists on imposing their belief system on others.

murph said...

Moon and Feathers,

I was a bit older than 5 yr old when my parents and grandfather introduced me to guns. If I remember, I was about 8. As I remember, most kids were introduced to firearms by the time they were teenagers. When my father was young, nearly every male child was introduced to firearms at an early age. The introduction to guns for the early settlers was pretty young also. Although, then it was a much bigger question of survival. I suppose it could again be a question of survival if conditions change enough.

We sure live in interesting times.

Anonymous said...


Just got back from a weekend away, dog sitting and am doing a bit of catching up. The book I mentioned earlier seems interesting, up to now at least. Got the rather long intro boxed off , didn't get any further because I fell asleep in the sun reading it. The author comes clean at the beginning and says “I am a Vedic Hindu but I am not going to push it. I will point out the holes in Darwinism as I see them, offer a range of possible explanations and let you decide for yourself”. If that is his approach then I will give it an open minded read, not an I have already made up my mind, cynical read. He is definitely an anti new age creationist so that is a plus for me. He argues (or is going to) that homo sapiens, sapiens have been around for at least 250 million years and not the biblical time scale so we cannot be descended from apes. He says some archiologists who have had artifacts dated by four different methods can't believe their own results. Up to now, I can't fault Dawkins thought line but we shall see where it goes. I could even change my position to agnostic.

Rp, I am a one shot and no reprise kind of guy but I am finding it difficult to reconcile what you are saying. Do you really believe that if you don't believe in a universal creator then you cannot experience the feeling of your heart jumping out of your body with a surge of emotional empathy for some other? Is it necessary for the two things to be inseparably linked?

I think we already agreed, or perhaps we didn't, that freedom is the right to do anything you like so long it doesn't impinge on the freedom of others or the environment. If we do accept that, then a moral code is just an artificial construct.

Murph, You said “It always seems so strange to me that those folks with very strong beliefs in spirit and God very often (but not always) want to impose their belief on everyone else. I can't recall ever meeting a agnostic or an atheist that insists on imposing their belief system on others.”
You are on the same track as JFK. He expressed it this way: “The trouble with fundamentalists is not that they are fundamental, it is that they are always so damned intollorant.”

Moon and Feathers. I think it is a pity we live in times where such things are deemed to be necessary. Part of the joy of children is their reflected innocence. If you take that away they become little adults and you can never again enjoy them just being children.

rockpicker said...

SATS; I was thinking, as I worked in the garden this a.m., that I meant to include in my previous remark something about those in service to others, as opposed to those in service to self.

It's not that those who don't sense something of the divine in their lives can't have empathy, it's just that those who seriously subscribe to the one-shot theory have every reason to be self-serving materialists, and little good reason to worry about others, except as a practical matter.

According to Rupert Sheldrake's comments concerning Dawkins, Richard is as staunch and fundamental in his atheism as many religious zealots are in theirs. He claims there is no God, and no afterlife. But, as Sheldrake points out, how does he know? Has he died and come back to report to us? No. He's simply expressing his viewpoint that this one shot at existence is all any of us have at experiencing the three-D. It's just another belief system, with little proof of it's validity.

On the other hand, look at the plethora of anecdotal data concerning continuity of the consciousness after death, from the paranormal to out-of-body and near-death experience. Are all these witnesses claiming experiences whackos or liars?

Are we our physical selves? Or, are we spirits moving about in physical bodies?

Dawkins says consciousness resides in the brain and when the brain stops functioning, the self terminates. Sheldrake suggests maybe the consciousness is outside the individual and is similar to a tv signal that we tune in to. You can shut off the tv, but the signal is still there.

rockpicker said...

Murph; How many of the psychopathetic, new world order, service-to-selfer motherfuckers do you think would classify themselves as agnostic or atheist, and how many would you guess would say they're god-fearing humanists?

I don't know the answer to that rhetorical question, but I have a hunch.

Anonymous said...


Rp, in the sense that you have mentioned, Sheldrake is right, Dawkins is no more right or wrong than the Pope for example. Don't know why I picked on him, probably a bad choice. The book I am reading gets into all the things you have mentioned so I will see where it goes. Here is the search page related to it.

In the TV example you gave, the question then becomes where is the TV station located and who operates it. Is there just one station or are there many? If it is like this, then are we just some entities drones playing our programmed parts? If the answer is no then we get into the free will argument and all the familiar discussions cycle around.

We are led to believe from alternative media, that the NWO lot serve a different god but I have a sneaking suspiscion that the ones at the top are really athiests who are using religion as a control mechanism in a similar way that the church or consumerism is directed towards us.

murph said...


"Murph; How many of the psychopathetic, new world order, service-to-selfer motherfuckers do you think would classify themselves as agnostic or atheist, and how many would you guess would say they're god-fearing humanists?

I don't know the answer to that rhetorical question, but I have a hunch."

Legitimate question.

One of the problems I see is the tendency to label, to put into classifications, to compartmentalize. Your question infers to me that those folks are being honest in their own beliefs statements. No matter the statement, there is usually a huge gap between the statement and walking the talk.

I think it boils down to what is done, not what is said. I truly doubt that humanism is big on the declarations by those in power. Rather, they talk big about morals, ethics and promptly violate their stated position. This is called hypocrisy.

Interestingly, the biggest sin that Jesus talks about and mentions most frequently in the new testament is hypocrisy, ie waking the talk.

In our area, there a quite a few folks that idolize Reagan and his presidency, and actually get teary eyed when they talk about the "shining city on the hill". I've had a few opportunities to ask what it is that Reagan did to deserve such feelings. One answer I get frequently is that "he gave us pride in being Americans again", and that "he advocated smaller government and lowering the debt and having more freedom", all of which is pure D B.S. I suppose being in the early stages of Alzheimer qualifies one to be head of a country. But, that he sold himself on that hypocrisy and folks bought it is inexcusable. And then to deify it? sigh.

Although, when I dig into some aspect of history, it appears to me that is the norm rather than an exception. It appears to me that if we take any period of history, the masses very quickly forget the hypocrisy and lack of integrity in the supposedly leaders of that time.

Is this just a natural part of the the human condition?

Anonymous said...

SATS... keep us posted on the devolution thingie. dependin on how ya look at it, seems ta me thars just as valid an argument for that as its self proclaimed opposite.

i spoke to a couple of my genes after breakfast this morn. the first one said, my name is not gene. its palooka. there are no others as me.

the other one said... my name is not gene either. my name is allele...

now what? ...p

Anonymous said...

i gotta wonder.... was dawkins ever so taken as to, in the midst of a steamy, intimate interlude, uncontrollably blurt out.... OH MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!!

what then? ...p

Anonymous said...


P :-)forget the second gene, the first one had it nailed :)

Will keep you up to date.

freeacre said...

Good morning, My Brothers! Just want to check in. Still doing the wellness diet - like Paleo, but emphasis on raw vegetables. Concurrently doing meditation with Deva Premal on line. Guess that puts me in the "spiritual" side. One thing I find mildly irritating, though, is the effeminate way that many men sound when they want to sound "spiritual." They sound like somebody put a big, tight rubber band around their nuts. Maybe it's just me ... Maybe that's just how reverence sounds.
In terms of where consciousness resides, I think at least part of it is outside of ourselves. So often the Murphman and I say the same thing simultaneously. I say, "OK,it sounds like we both caught that mental wave at the same time." I can't remember who it was (Huxley, Alan Watt, John Lilly??) who postulated that the brain is an eliminating, not a generative organ. We are surrounded by information and the brain filters from it what is useful to us.
Things seem to be degenerating on so many levels right now. War and mass killings, craziness, powermad weirdos, etc. But for some reason, I find myself grateful to be here and enthralled with the beauty all around me. I seem to be into the acceptance stage of the Kali Yuga. Wish I could find some non GMO popcorn to eat while I watch the show...
Love You Guys

freeacre said...

Here's a good message from an ex spy who says the corrupt government is toast and it's going to get better.

freeacrer said...

oops ... forgot the link:

Lucretia Heart said...

Hey! Nice to see you posting again! The painted ducks and rabbit skin blankets are beautiful!

I think a great frustration of those that post warnings about the future is that they hope some people see the obvious sense of what they're saying and change en masse. But the masses only change out of a comfortable lifestyle (which requires obliviousness) when forced to.

It was losing everything that made my husband and myself take serious stock of how we lived and realize we couldn't afford to make stupid mistakes. You know, we faced those pesky "consequences" that you speak of!

Despite the suffering we endured, I'm glad we learned that lesson in our 30s and have had years to change how we live and approach so many things. Others who are getting this later in life (now that Decline is accelerating) are going to pay a much higher price than we did!

Things are starting to change, though. I wrote about some things I noticed here:

And here:

Sadly, many people will only change the hard way-- when they have to. But I think they WILL change. Also too often people will search for a scapegoat to blame rather than realize that this is a complex planetary problem with multiple villains who are powerful (scapegoating leads people to attack those will little power.)

Regardless, we can count on many adventures to come along this ride!

murph said...


Good to hear from you. Been a while.

IMO, you are right, most people will not change what they are doing until they have to. We do not seem to be able to examine long term consequences of present actions. Again, IMO, this is even more serious when those in power do the same, enacting public policy for an agenda that has proven serious consequences for which a very small minority have no skin in the game and and do not answer for the failed policies. Our health care system is a current and good example.

You mention in one of your posts that you are seeing much more utilization of small livestock in unlikely places, namely urban or semi urban living. Our area is experiencing much the same. What I find interesting to observe is how long they do it. Numerous folks that got caught up in the idea of raising chickens, rabbits and gardening have dropped out of it. Commonly heard, "It's way too much work", or,"predators wiped out my flock", or in our local area,"the weather makes gardening too difficult". Generally though, it's the amount of effort it takes to do it. Takes away from time to spend in hedonistic pursuits.

Our area's chicken coop, garden and greenhouse tour takes place for the fourth year this coming August. This year we are again hosting for view our efforts. Every year more folks are getting into efforts of raising their own food. However, a number of these folks are under the delusion that they can become food self sufficient with absolutely no idea of what it takes to even come close to that idea, much less to obtain it. I figure that in a good year, with a fairly large growing area (and/or greenhouse) a family can produce close to 50% of the years caloric needs. If this includes animals, then you are also going to have to talk about providing their food for the year. There is only one couple that we know of in the area that is trying for the ideal and they are within only 70%-75% of reaching it. The woman of the household is the producer and spends around 10-14 hrs per day 7 days a week during the growing season working at it. Talk about commitment!! Impressive results too. Last year, they hosted their efforts. Freeacre and I went to see what they were doing during last years tour. While there, a woman asked the hosts where they kept their barrels of Miracle Grow to get their impressive results. I came close to howling with amusement, since they are strictly organic. I could tell the host was controlling their amusement.

Frankly, we are getting old enough that trying to keep up with a large organic production of food is somewhat questionable. Every year now, we have to decide if we have enough energy to deal with it and we definitely do not spend 10-14 hours a day at it.

Overall though, We much approve of individuals growing at least some of their own food. It is a healthier alternative to living out of the grocery store.

freeacre said...

Check this out, Guys. It's a bunch of intentional communities that look really great to me.

Anonymous said...

rp: what do you make of this?

Dyou think this is a run up to disclosure type thing? What are your thoughts on disclosure generally? (as a meme, not the disclosure project which is sus IMO) Gd.

murph said...

Hey GD.

Problem with articles like you cited is validation of conclusions. It's the same old saw. Manipulated information and separating fact from fiction is nearly impossible in real time.

For me, disclosure is interesting but to be taken with a pinch of salt. And, just what in hell would we do with that kind of information anyway if it was all factual? I look at the
Snowdon disclosures and say ok, now I know what they are doing, and if I don't like it, how to stop it? If there are indeed aliens among us, what can we do with that info?

I suspect that a lot of disclosure types of information is to keep us tied to fear and helplessness. I also notice the kangaroo type of reporting all over the place. The reporting of this and that hops from one subject to another indiscriminately. Some big headline item is discarded very quickly without thorough investigation. Manipulation of our perceptions on any subject is pervasive. We pick a perception on some subject that seems to match up with our world view and hold on to it with a death grip. We are all guilty of that. I keep retreating into the position that demands a statement of; what do I do with that perception.

Anonymous said...


Do you remember a while ago when we were talking about the effect of radiation on the human frame? A Japanese guy has done a time laps of every nuclear explosion made since 1945 with one month reduced to one second. Video lasts a thin quarter hour. A running tally for each nation involved and an overall total is included at the top of the screen. Power plant “accidents” are not included, I don't think and neither are North Korea's two failed detonations. What would have been interesting is if he had included info on whether the detonations were in the air, on the surface, underground or underwater. I realise this would have made the animation over complicated but each nations tally could have been split into these catagories at the end of the animation. Sure is interesting.

Re Snowden, unfortunately, the only two who seem to be looking at this the right way round are Arthur Silber and Tarzie. Poor Arthur's health is failing him now so his output is sporadic. Snowden has done something very courageous but has naievely placed his trust in Greenwald and his handlers. All that has happened is that Greenwald has put himself in a position of power and taken over the roll of the USG in disseminating or more to the point, not discemminationg information. So far as the USG are concerned, it couldn't have gone better for them. Anger in public and high fives in private. There will be “The Debate”, public fears will be brought into the open, DHS will have its wrists slapped and everything will go on as before. Even if the DHS was totally disbanded tomorrow, the same information is still being collected by the CIA and a host of other alphabet soup agencies but now we will be 'informed' so he can sleep easier whilst our privacy is being invaded at all levels.

Anonymous said...

Murph, validations of conclusions?

It's just data mate, another dot on the map, no conclusions are possible until there is much more data available. It's interesting to speculate amongst fellow researchers non the less, I know rp has some views as we've touched on it before so I thought I'd mention what I find to be a very very strage meeting between very odd bedfellows.

on another note, "Science Fiction and the Hidden Global Agenda" by Carl James( has just been published, it's interesting stuff, not that you need another book on your reading list LOL but at least the author made this available as a free download, here's the pdf link if anyones interested...

murph said...

Which brings to my mind another point. How many dots, how much data is needed to make a conclusion? Example; How many local police departments receiving war gear are required to come to the conclusion that the local police are being militarized by the federal government? And, for what purpose?

Anonymous said...

Aye mate, how many "revelations" of stuff we already knew, stuff that's been out there for years does Snowdon have to make before "awake" people recognise he's part of the machine? Gd.

Anonymous said...


Ha, Gd,I was being kind to our friend Edward a few comments above. I wrote to Arthur and asked the same question, if he thought he was on the payroll but I never received an answer.

Anonymous said...


Obama has been in Kiev today to see his new stooge, making jingoistic speeches about not tollerating Russia's occupation of the Criamea. Even though the people there are of Russian origin and voted overwhelmingly in a legal referendum that they wanted to be part of Russia. Doesn't this guy believe in democracy. I will bet that if the vote had gone the other way it would have been legal and democratic. And he quite forgot about America's own illegal occupation of Iraq. Sometimes, out of expediency it's better to put such matters on a back burner. He also visited Poland to celibrate the 25 anniversary of Communism's downfall. Whilst he was in the next street, so to speak, he just happened to drop in on his old mates in Belgium - again. Does he want us to fenagle the Feds funds for them again? Well, what are mates for?
Apart from the expected hypocracy and taking into account Murph's latest comment above, don't be looking the wrong way when the other foot falls.

rockpicker said...

GD; Sorry for the delayed response to your question. I've been out of town and otherwise preoccupied as of late. Too tired at night to read, let alone type responses.

Of disclosure, I think it will happen per se, unofficially, as this gathering in London seems to indicate. I think martial law has a better chance of happening than disclosure, partly because, as Rich Dolan points out, it's not in the government's interest to disclose et presence. The gov. has nothing to gain by doing it, and everything to gamble.

So, it will be like chemtrails. How about some disclosure on that subject? But, look how divided the poor and dissolving middle class has become. Can't agree on anything, even the fact that the powers that be are attempting to eradicate 80+% of the world's population, through vaccinations, chemtrails, radiological pollution, meteorological manipulation, electromagnetic pollution, you name it, they're doing it to us. Every direction you look, government and the corporations are attacking the "useless eaters and breathers."

They're planning to tax us for inhaling oxygen and exhaling carbon dioxide soon.

Murph brings up a good point. My daughter is going out with a soldier who is being deployed to Idaho from Ft. Lewis, Wa., to help train law enforement officers in military tactics. This is what Obama told us he was planning. (I remember my shock at the applause.) It appears obvious officialdom is prepping for an assault with hollow-point ammunition, drones and armored troop carriers aimed at the American people. We're seeing it happen...No one seems to know what to do about it.

But, before we can do something, anything, first we must be aware. Fear and loathing are signs of intelligence and moral identity. Denial, ignorance and/or apathy seem to be the guiding principles of western society, from my perspective. We've allowed corporations to ingest and imbed our once free media, and for that we are paying dearly in terms of honesty.

Rense is fond of stating that we have become used to being lied to. I concur. We expect it. We know the press is either telling us full-out lies, like "no radiation in the Pacific," or their omitting pertinent facts to spin news in a manner acceptable to its corporate masters.

We know things are fucked up but we lack an adequate means of building consensus. Perhaps a unifying event, "like a new Pearl Harbor," will happen, and America will awaken.

The coming capital controls may prove to be that catalyzing event
government seems worried about. Maybe holograms of Jesus or an invasion from space will be the trigger. Maybe people will keep on eating gmo's and watching the boob tube until the lights go out for good. I just don't know anymore...

rockpicker said...

GD; I meant to include this info, which was sent to me by Robert Morningstar, editor of UFO Digest.

Reinerio Hernandez, J.D., MCP, Ph.D. Candidate

Co-Director and Co-Founder

Foundation for Research into Extra terrestrial Encounters (FREE)

P.O. Box 162954, Miami, FL 33116-2954

Email: ReyHernandez@CONTACTEE.ORG (as of June 1, 2014)


rockpicker said...

Murph; Those rabbit hide robes are way cool. I kinda know what amount of work you went through to make those. A couple of winters back we had a young moose impale himself on the old wrought iron fence surrounding the Virginia City Cemetery. Instead of letting his hide go to waist, I took it and scraped it. Man, you talk about a job. I got the flesh off, though. Left the hair on. Haven't done anything with it yet. It's out in the shed, rolled up. Made it through a summer and another winter in that state, with no bugs and no smell. I understand the next step is weighting it down in the creek for a week, and scraping the hair off. Just haven't got there yet.

rockpicker said...

Hey, GD; What do you suppose this paratrooper thinks about disclosure?

Anonymous said...

rp: thks for your thoughts mate.

I like Dolan, I can't find anything to taint him :) I do however consider him slightly under researched when it comes to NWO, it's like he doesn't see the bigger picture.

As he says, disclosure has no benefit for a specific gov, but if you're after complete world domination, one world gov/religion etc. you are way above gov level, all you have to do is get all your ducks in a row to control the UN (check)militarise police forces (check), then land a friendly/partisan (or acting unfriendly) alien on capital hill and play it however you like, You can have martial law and a financial collapse thrown in for good measure too, no-one will be paying attention as they'll all be in a state of panic, besides it will be too late to do anything anyway.

I can't see any other catlyst that comes close to a gaurenteed coup on the whole planet, unless they're mad enough to go for nuclear M.A.D. but then there'd be nowt left to be in charge of. (brushing aside the theories of past anchient M.A.D. evidence as a precident).

Whatever lies in store, none of the preps so far looks good for us! Gd.

murph said...


I call those creations blankets, even though most of the time they were robes in the Indian use. The Indian use of them was pragmatic and involved no artistic bent in them that I could find. In the areas where they were made, the tribes had wild rabbits available in the thousands. I was attempting to make something similar but with color and design. Wild rabbits have little color variation.

Yup, large animal hides are a real problem for the home tanner. Deer hides are a bit too large for me as it is. I am presuming that the hide you talked about is completely dry. Did you salt it? The largest amount of work for a home tanner,in my experience, is softening the hide before the actual tanning, which means setting the hide in its present amount of flexibility and making it water proof, that is, if it gets wet, it doesn't turn hard when it dries. The addition of tannin by smoking will do that but is a real pain to do. Hours of constant monitoring the process. If I can make the time, I have several other ways of doing the actual tanning I want to try. If I get to it, I'll let you know how it comes out.

murph said...


LOL You are providing me with all kinds of thoughts for a new post.

Now, to make the time to put one together. So much going on right now.

rockpicker said...

Howard Beale was right. "First, you've got to get mad!"

Anonymous said...

rp (6/4, 11:53) n all... yes, it appears as if the masses are in mass denial. if the massses are in such great denial what is the reflection? the vast majority of the masses are fragments. fragmentation can be and has been one of the results of denial at core levels. yet, fragmentation is "expected" to open their eyes and act parental? iow, take responsibility for denials? it ain't gonna happen! i suggest that ability to "see" power-over agendas for what they are is directly proportionate to position at emergence. if there's n e thing to that then one who's eyes are open is far more likely to have been parental to this massive fragmentation being reflected back via the closed eyes of the masses.

unfortunately, an ability to see is not directly proportionate to an ability to see the unseen role denial is playing.

in context of the greater cosmic forces seeking balance there is what could be considered a fundamental axiom to the dynamics of energy in as much as its truth is self-evident (its THE 'fail-safe' aspect to the dance of energies): denial begets an experience or experiences equal to or greater than the denial so the denial may be cleared.

so who's really in denial in this dance? they are the only ones who can make a dif. as the denials of the parental parts are realized, accepted, and then moved on, the reflections will change respectively... p

Anonymous said...

lookin 4 some boogie entertainment today? free live stream at mountain jam... streaming now. allman bros at 7...p

freeacre said...

Just a note about what is going on locally now in Bend: there is a 6,000 acre fire just about a mile North of Bend that is making everything very smokey, even here (25 miles south). 250 large homes have been evacuated. My son lives on the North side of Bend, but is in no danger, except for the smoke. Ah, the joys of living in a Nat'l. Forest. Bummer.

Anonymous said...


Fa, time to leave the rabbit hides out in the open. Look on the positive side :-)

Anonymous said...


Must see. A collage student asks a TV pannel why America is the greatest country in the world. She wasn't expecting this reply. An unusually honest answer from an unusual talking head.