A DISCUSSION ABOUT POWER, AUTHORITY AND FORCE.
Ok, I have been doing some reading, thinking and observations that have provoked this posting. It is a somewhat different perspective concerning authority and power than I have lain out before.
We have been told over and over since we were old enough to understand, that it was essential to respect and obey authority, and in all its forms in our society. We were also taught that to not do so would get some heavy penalties heaped on your head. We sure have enough example of that happening to insure that we believe it. That authority started in the family, progresses to the school and then to society at large and is evident in almost all aspects of our life is important to realize.
Another aspect of this authority is that it has been granted the sole and exclusive use of violence to enforce its rules. Thus, if the police legally use force to insure compliance with some law, it also precludes that the citizens has virtually no legitimate use of violence against the authorities, no matter how corrupt or illegally they act. There are lots of examples of retaliation by authority figures when the citizen resorts to violence against the authorities.
So what we have is a system that is one sided. When we were being taught about this at a young age, part of the rational for this being necessary is that we are a country ruled by laws, not the whims of the elite, and if we did not obey authority, chaos would result. This was all necessary for the smooth running of society.
I am going to assert that all of this is a lie, perpetuated by the elites for the last 5000 years to ensure their authority and privilege. After all, if you are going to rule, you don’t want a bunch of pesky citizens ‘taking the law into their own hands’ or challenging the authority and the privileges that go along with being a ruler. It is also rather obvious that ruling by law is mostly for the masses but has little to do with the rulers who pretty much do as they please along with the other thugs that always accompany a society where institutional violence is always from the top down and will not tolerate any violence from the bottom up. When you look around critically at our society, our civilization actually, you will notice that all violence originates from the top down. When it is resisted and retaliatory actions by the citizens taken, it is very brutally put down. Of course, this is necessary if you want to preserve this exclusive use of power and keep all the bennies that go along with this power.
The original intent of our form of government was not to take away the privilege and exclusive use of power from the elite class, but to make it more acceptable and less autocratic. That way the elite could retain their position without so much fear of active rebellion by the masses. Over time, they have regained the autocratic control and now use their power at whim.
I wish to tie this in with the civilization we are living in. This civilization that has been the predominate way of doing things on this planet for nearly 5000 years, (with rare and disappearing exceptions) is eating our world, and as a side dish, all the living things on the planet. This civilization has a dependency on destruction, conquest and occupation of anyplace that has anything which is valued by that civilization. I hear over and over that “hey, I’m not a part of that”. Oh Yeah? Drive a car? Ever ride on a plane? Buy at the grocery store? Every thing that we take for granted every day supports this empire and civilization of destruction. And, of course, it is now imperative that we talk about the predominate driving force for this civilization. That would be the corporation. When we examine the sole reason for a corporation to exist, we find that it is to accumulate more money and power. The only way this can be done is to continually grow and expand, and that entails exploitation of resources, that is, things must die and be used up. This has become very blatant of course. We have killed off something like 90% of the large sea animals, we have virtually no old growth forest left, the salmon are going to be extinct soon, in fact, in the last 300 years or so humans are responsible for the largest amount of extinction that has ever occurred, outside of a world wide calamity, and the litany goes on and on. In fact, there are some from the environmental groups that think that we have passed a tipping point where it doesn’t make too much difference what we do, we are killing off the land base we need for survival faster than it can recoup and so much damage has been done, it will take thousands of years to repair it. Of course we will never regain the animal and plant life that we have done the extinction job on. We will never again see a passenger pigeon, Eskimo curlew,
Because this civilization is the only way to live that people have been exposed to, they have no idea there are other ways of living; practical and sustainable ways. But, as long as mankind insists on perpetuating the attitude that human life takes precedence over every other form of life, just because we can enforce it and it matches our observations as being the natural order of things and is ‘Manifest Destiny”, it will never change. As long as humans in their arrogance insist that our life is worth more than the bacteria, it will not change. It is a show of ignorance about the utter interdependence on all living things on this planet. I got into a discussion with a fellow just a short while ago on the subject. I pointed out that without the bacteria, we cannot exist, as an example. Without sea plankton, we die. Sorry about these pronouncements, but it is a fact and get used to it. So you want to put your life form above the plankton? It won’t work, at least as humans are configured.
The problem with all of this is what to do about it. Well, I figure we can have a discussion on it while I write another post on that subject.
26 comments:
Well! I say we fight 'em with their own laws! It works if your quick, and quiet! All you've got to do is video, and audio recordings of their crimes, then use them against them!
When, and if that option is taken away from us, then I say it's time to stand as a people against them with whatever is needed!
Stoney,
What I am trying to emphasize here is that the people in power in government are not about to let themselves prosecuted by any legal system. Not on the big issues at any rate. Notice that those in government that have been prosecuted for crimes happen only when they are out of power, ie lose a war, another group takes over, etc. We have right now adequate information to prosecute a whole bunch of people for violation of our own and international laws, and they are not standing before a trial and won't until they are out of power. They are making the rules and have the guns and force to back it up.
It sure appears to me that civilian legal recourse is not an option until we completely change the personal in power. At this time, looking at those in and running for power positions, is not about to happen at all.
We are fucked.
Oh Yea! You're definitely right!! We are indeed fucked! The Government does indeed cover it's own ass, and cover it quite well! They won't go down quietly!! That's for damned sure!
As long as it's "business as usual" in Washington, they won't goo down at all! (Right on that one too!)
Still we see the dirt brought to bear against some very smug, and self-rigeous pricks in Washington. All I'm saying is if we get them jumpy enough, they might make a mistake! If they make a BIG enough mistake,(Mark Foley), then there's one less asshole to deal with, (or at least a different one!)
Kinda like stirrin' up an ant's nest. The trick isn't to get rid of the ants, just fuck with 'em enough to get 'em all out in the open, so you can see what you're dealing with!
Right now, we're at the point in time where this government is trying to find out just how much shit The American People will eat! And to tell you the truth, "Joe Sixpack" and family have an incredible apetite for feces! Folks like us? Not so much!
From Belgium,
Pleased you put a new post up Murph. I turned my back for a day and the last one got away from me.
This is an interesting topic also, although I expect that my take will be predictable by now ‘-)
After the ones who control events, have more than enough money for their and their families luxurious lifetime needs, then what use is more? Beyond a certain point, more becomes an irrelevance. The sole purpose of more is to create an imbalance between those who have it and those who don’t. The taking away of that which ordinary people already have, gives the receiving class power. Do you remember when dad used to go out to work and bring home enough to support a wife and eight kids, not in wall to wall luxury, but enough for everyone to be more or less happy? Now mom also has to work in order to support 2.3 kids. How did this situation come about? Probably by over facing folks with consumer toys and endless credit lines and then sitting back and waiting for them to walk into the bear pit. Yes, living standards have improved but the price people paid was to become beholden. If the love of money is the opiate of the masses then the love of power is the opiate of the elites. It follows that if these people control the destiny of nations then they are above any nation’s laws and therefore laws only exist to keep the citizenry from ascending the greasy pole into elitedom. Aaron Russo told the story that Nick Rockefeller once offered him a KIMA card. When he enquired what it was he was told that it stood for a Kiss My Ass card and that after the elites had truly taken over and everybody else was truly subjugated, then flashing your KIMA card at the cop you had offended would result in a salute if not a bow.
Of course, the opposite way round of looking at things is that if money represents wealth, then if this is recycled instead of being sucked into the elite vacuum cleaner, every citizen could become a mini elite. This is what Huey Long said all those years ago and he might have got away with it if he hadn’t eaten something which disagreed with him and caused his sudden and unexpected demise. Now Ron Paul is more or less following the same drumbeat and it is time to watch this space with crossed fingers.
The original intent of the founding fathers was not for a democracy at all but for a constitutional republic. As I understand it, in simple terms, the two things are more or less the same except that in a republic, the legal branch holds the balance of power and not the executive branch. This apparently, is a lot harder nut for the elites to crack. Is it not an Alice in Wonderland world where the Republican Party’s intent is to spread Democracy around the world?
Do the underdogs have any roll models in modern times they can look towards? Evil or good, who is to say? History seems never to have come off the fence as far as Huan Peron is concerned but what about Fidel Castro? There were those who said that he diverted some of the revolutionary effort in the direction of his back pocket. I don’t know how much of this is true but what I do know is that he had enough foresight to make farmers enjoy a higher social status than say engineers and to put a fully funded clinic within walking distance of every citizen. If he is bringing the level if his people upwards whilst the general level of American citizens are being diminished, how many bennies does he deserve and who should decide on it?
A new anti empire force could be in the making around Hugo Chavez and Evo Moreles. At least these are instituting social programs designed to redistribute their countries wealth downwards. Not only that, most South American countries with the probable exception of Colombia, which is a CIA asset, have formed a tacit agreement to form a Southern Continent Bank which is to have a social face and is designed to rival the WB and the IMF. These men of no consequence also have the audacity to have trade agreements in place with that axis of evil Iran. If the keeper of the World’s morals was not so preoccupied in other areas they would not put up with this nonsense for very long. In the meantime it could come about that Simon Bolivar’s original concept of La Gran Colombia, or something like it, could not only come about but could be greatly exceeded. One can only hope it for the Southern citizens but what about all those people to the north?
murph. great post! you are talking about our greatest challenge.
in my view, when it comes to misuse of power, authority and force, you are talking about what alice miller refers to as "poisonous pedagogies". pedagogies are the principles and methods of instruction, particularly in regard to, but certainly not limited to, children.
theoretically pedagogy is considerd the art or science of being a teacher. a pedagogue. from Gk. paidagogos, from pais (gen. paidos) "child" (see pedo-) + agogos "leader," from agein "to lead" (see act). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedagogy
so, a leader of children.
in miller's view, if traditional methods and principles ever were a good thing, its a good thing gone bad for it results in the very pirating of the human spirit and soverign self. the independent self never develops. such would be too threatening. instead we get autonoms. robots that grow up and do the same thing to their chlidren. it is so pervasive in family systems, it bleeds into our societal, educational, civic, political, religous, and cultural systems and becomes the norm for the way we lead our lives. we take it to the grave. or it takes us. in the meantime, we acquiese to it and we promote it. we are both victum and perp.
the titles of miller's works say it all... thou shalt not be aware, for your own good, drama of the gifted child, prisoners of childhood.
the result? banished knowledge!
is there hope? the untouched key, the truth will set you free, breaking down the wall of silence, the body never lies.
we spend most of our lives bitching about whats wrong without ever considering that, what we are getting is what we have called for. and unless we break the cycle, the chain, we are hopeless to re-enactments. and perhaps worse, we pass it on to our children. the only place we, as individuals, can break the cycle is to break it within ourselves.
these poisonous pedagogies are the greatest rot in the human condition and challenging these is one of our greatest challenges if we are ever to truely evolve sustainable life. evolve? things have gotten so bad a better word would be "preserve" life. for life itself hangs in the blanace.
the result of these pedagogies is conditioning. no wonder its called the human condition! miller: "a child's emotional traumas, repressed humiliation, and bottled rage can manifest themselves as serious adult health problems." and i might add... psychically, physically, and spiritually in the body politic. shame me then and, left untreated, i'm shamed for life. john bradshaw, in making the distinction between guilt and shame, said, " we experience guilt when we realize we did something wrong. . we experience shame when we realize we ARE something wrong." in many cases these childhood experiences were so painful no one would ever want to re-visit them. and to some, others attempting so is even a threat. but they do not admit to that? hell no! instead they mock it and use the very thing they run from.... "GET OVER IT", as don henley sang.
so??
so here i go again! up onto soap box. for those of you who are tired of the same-o same-o you can just skip this one. there's nothing new here. as b put it, i expect that my take will be predictable by now. likewise, in his view its about creating imbalance. so it is with mine. he has pointed out effect. i write about cause. and about amassing more and more power. so it is with mine. the power mongers have so abused it as to give it a bad name. thus some of us might look at that and conclude, therefore, that love of power is anathama. i don't think thats what b is saying. i'm just pointing out mis-guided conclusions made by some.
most of you know my view on what we have to do to break this chain. i have been writiing about it from time to time all along. that is to end the denial. in my view, denial is the original, causal factor and all denial is a form of denial of self. ending that is a massive challenge when the tools for such were never allowed to develope. when the self itself was never allowed to develope. when it was conditioned to the contrary, often by an abusive hand with tramatic results. underneath all this is a massive load of unmoved emotions... rage, shame, terror, heartbreak,.greed, hatred, love.
love?
yes, even love. its a 2 part receipe... to give and to receive. many can get the first part (though i can make an argument that much of what is interpreted as love is really just guilt and guilt and love cannot co-exist in the same space at the same time because of vibrational differences). but few of us can let the walls down and let another human being in. there are reasons. it is becomming more and more acknowledged by the experts that, genetic pre-disposition notwithstanding, at the core of addictions is an inability to allow another to love us. how can we truely love another when we cannot love ourselves? and how can i love such a peice of shit as me?
and why whould i give a shit? because i, like many, am haunted by unrequited love. probably due to position relative to love at emmergence. which was the position of many. certainly no all. but many. it seems to be hard wired in and haunts despite the massive attempt to do away with it.
emotions are energies and just as in play as thoughts. perhaps even moreso. when we judge our emotions, particularly our so-called negative emotions, as unloving and something to be gotten rid of, we have just gotten rid of the very thing that can, in harmony with our spirit's inspiration and our mind's decision making... aka, choice making... tell us what our appropriate limits are in any given moment. this is so destructive and so pervase it has resulted in a conditioning of our emotional bodies that can only reflect the conditioning back to us. we hold a judgement in mind, it is reflected back to us emotionally and experiencially futher entrenching the judgement as "right judgement". sometimes this goes to the point where the judgements and belief systems can no longer be seen for what they are. they become the reality. our view, our interpretation of the present moment, is skewed by the past, unmoved, unexplored, and often denied, dynamics. and these dynamics can go back lifetimes. even back to our original experiences at emmergence. in this lifetime, past lifetimes, and all the way back to our original emmergence. thus we are not getting a true response to the experience at hand which, in my view, is part of the purpose of our emotions. to feel it is to know it. in a way the mind (as proxy for the spirit), alone, cannot know it. at least subjectively. and this can lead to objectivity and wider, more balanced, views. instead we get emotional responses that may have nothing to do with the context of the moment. how can we make good decisions for ourselves when this is the case? no wonder fear is considered an illusion. thats one way we can deal with it... believe its not real! or, proclaim "no fear"! and no wonder rage is acting out all over!! no wonder its considered a weakness to cry... you big baby!!
which brings me to this... the only thing i disagree with you on murph is the idea that this is all top down. thats just not true. not from my view at least. granted, from the view that what is in power is at the top (and its easy to see that the top is not only misusing the power but seeks more of the same), yes, it is. but how did they get there? part of the reason the top is there is because we have demanded it. we demand it hold the line against that which we perceive to be a threat to our survival. a big part!! protect me. protect me from the boogie man. the psychopathic killer, the criminal element, the low lifes, the insane, the extreemists, the terrorists, the crazy people, the street, the drug crazed, the theif, the murderer, the rapist, the gays, the niggers, the jews, the christians, the pagans, the mexicans, the common white trash, germs, disease, chaos, and so on. you're absolutely right murph, we have the makings for so many diseases running around inside us we couldn't begin to count them all. wheather they sustain us or attack us has everything to do with the level of imbalance. and imbalance is a reflection of denial.
yes, there is the element of misuse of power given to hold the line against all these perceived threats. its manifest in these many forms you mention... the gov'ment, the laws, the judicial, the military, the police, and more. but thats just the tip of the iceberg. though the misuse is real and some of the threats are real, just as alcohol is not causal to alcoholism, these are not the causal factors. the causal factor is denial. when we deny, we are out of balance. and part of what we loose is personal power. keeping in mind that thought and emotions, the mind and the feeling body, the consciousness and the will, the plus and minus polarities of energy, and energies are the power of the universe, it follows that when we deny in any form we loose personal power. that power is then subject to be hi-jacked. and it often is. and then, when it ends up being used by those who would use it to overpower, it is used to over-power even us.
and we wonder what happened! all i really wanted was to be safe!!
could it work, this idea of personal power? of free will? i think it can. i think it can because i think true freedom is a self regulating, self balancing thing. i think god's will is for us to do our will. with that comes power. and if we misuse that power to over-power another (or self for that matter), we loose it. its a form of denial of self. then the cycle, the great lesson, starts all over again. until we finally learn that the only way to win is to not play the over-powerment game. even in the name of good over evil. the only way to protect ourselves against evil is to not deny the self thus denying the very power that can protect us from the boogie man. just like those bacteria, it can exist among us. but it likely won't because life is not what it desires. it feeds on denial.
will it help to, as stoney put it, "fuck with 'em enough to get 'em all out in the open"? hell yes. but the denial is so massive now and such a threat to life itself that universe is moving to clear it. an intervention, if you will, by the greater cosmic forces seeking balance. particularly the earth as so much denial has been shoved into her and she can no longer hold all the pain and compression. so, in part, what we are beginning to see is the surfacing of the deepest denials. and what we will also see will be a futile attempt on the part of the power mongers to meet this with even more denial. it is their way.
when we re-claim our personal power it can no longer be used against us by another. the only way we can loose it is to give it away. the only way to give it away is to deny it. for the most part, we've already done that. we would not be seeing the reflections we are seeing were this not the case. government is only a reflection of the people. the reflections are the evidence. the only way to change it is to end our own personal denial. particularly in the places where we are aligned with power-over agendas despite our insistence to the contrary. given most of us are operating from imprints, frozen points of view, judgements, and conditioning, with much consciousness lost and few tools to work with, this is not going to be easy. but we are not fucked! yet!! intent is the operative word to begin the process.
From Belgium,
Phew, just a few points to pick up on here.
Is the love of power an anathema? As p correctly second guessed me, my view is, usually but not necessarily. Chavez, for example, uses his power to demonstrate a paternalistic love for the people of his nation. He was fortunate in that he held his hands out in front of him and a great gift fell into his arms. Others of good intent have not been so fortunate to have the resources to follow their inclinations. Did Lenin sell out by accepting the Rothschild’s money to fund his revolution? Probably, but he couldn’t have done what he did without it. Grass roots steam lost pressure during the enormity of process of rebuilding the nation (read paying back the Rothschild’s). So far as we know, modern leaders of the Latin nations have not followed this route, or at least used their resources wisely to pay off their IMF debts and not dug bigger holes for themselves. Other world leaders, I could pick many here but I will say Mugabe for instance, regard nationhood as the obligation of their citizens to keep them in comfort during their old age. This is ok if they have earned respect over their lifetime, and others are at the helm running the shop for the benefit of all but if dues are expected in return for draconian measures then it is normal for nationals to tip up a finger and vote with their feet.
I recently read an internet article (cant find it back) on a university study on the nature of human nature whereby quite mild, reasonable altruistic types were put in charge of some project and allowed to take it in any direction they wanted to with fairly unlimited resources. It was found that mainly they became high on the power drug with a corresponding personality change. It must be stressed that the subjects of this experiment had never been given the discipline to deal with their newfound responsibility but that in fact was the object of the test. As was noted a long time ago, there are good types and bad types and those who have had responsibility thrust upon them before they were mature enough to deal with it.
As yet I have not come to terms with Alice Miler. Some time ago I started into one or two of Arthur’s articles on her but never got very far with it. I think it is time for a revisit. Arthur is a name from the past; I always thought he should have had a chair in academia instead of fighting ill health and his landlord in order to keep his blog going.
As far as the rest of p’s comment on denial is concerned I am going to have to spend some quiet time really going into it but so far as it affects Joe Six Pack, he either doesn’t want the pain of opening this can of worms or else he doesn’t know there is a can of worms to open.
freeacre your last post (in the previous comment section), was great...thanks for bringing us back to reality re the dollar and gold, etc. The busy-ness of life in general can sometimes sidetrack you into forgetting about being and getting ready for collapse. I have to remember, everytime I leave the house I should be stocking up and making it count. I've been checking the dates on things and none of it has ever been wasted, ( we end up using it and rotating it etc.). Your insights are practical and refreshing...i love it.
rockpicker...also your last post in the previous comment section was beautiful, sad but true. And thousands out there who'd agree with your feelings.
mf,...good luck with your run for council. I think people know when you're genuine and can tell when you really care...sounds like you're plugged in.
The points made re the fire and "stuff" are so true and once long ago an old jamacian man said..."ja fire cleanses". Life itself and our health is the only true wealth we have.
On the subject of the laws broken...unbelievable and intersting discussions on, of all places, PBS, the Bill Moyers show on Friday Nights around 9 p.m. on West Coast, he's been talking about the points of law, torture, etc. with Constitutional experts, it was strange to hear how they expected Cheney & Bush to be brought to trial.
all for now, love to all, mrsp
B... arthur? by arthur are you referring to janov or maybe silber's sacred moment? i think miller's greatest contribution has been in identifying the role of trama as a result of pedagogy. when these pedagogies turn poisonous that is a form of torture and trama is the result of torture. an amazing twist in this dynamic is how the victum will come to defend the perp. a shocking example of this is the padilla story best told by dr angela hegerty, an expert in working with religous fundamentalists, called in by padilla's attnys because they knew something was rotten in miami. if i read this and got no emotional response i think i'd go jump off a bridge... http://www.democracynow.org/
article.pl?sid=07/08/16/1416242
as for any kind of theraputic solution from miller? i dunno. its been several years since i've read her and i don't know where she's at with that now. there was a time when she endorsed (and engaged in as a patient) that of konrad stettbacher but redacted. janov is the primal scream guy. though apparently there are clients who claim miraculous success, otheres report backlash to put it mildly. thus that modality has been highly questioned by the psychoanalytic community. likewise miller had this to say...
"Every association of professional psychotherapists will require its members to have studied psychology, to have been through a period of therapy training, and to undertake the treatment of their first patients under supervision. Thanks to these regulations clients can be more or less reliably protected from any blind spots or unconscious acting-out tendencies that their therapists may have. It is my opinion that such protection via supervision is of particularly crucial importance in cases where a therapist adopts the setting of classical primal therapy (a setting that a number of therapists have now abandoned) and still insists on working in darkened rooms. The effect of this - particularly during the intensive phase - is to bring about dramatic regressions in the clients and to make them profoundly dependent on the therapist, a state of affairs that can easily be exploited for a variety of purposes. Arthur Janov was sensible of these dangers from the outset, but he was not able to guard his discovery against abuse."
i'm not endorsing any sort of formal modality of therapy. personally i use a process of emotional movement/release and judgement release. particularly judgement release as imbalance manifest in the body originates in consciousness. and specifically judgements that arise in consciousness in the midst of emotional movement.
my take is that the vessel has its own process to clear and the space for this comes only from within. no outside "other", be they professionally trained, shade tree, or bar talk has wisdom over that. the only reason i would consider a professional therapist would be to help set up a specific role play where I establish the guidelines and parameters. anything short of that is likely some form of guidence away from free will. that is NOT the direction i'm trying to go! there are as many forms of that as stars in the sky. the key here is recognizing the denial of free will. so, in nearly all cases, recognized and endorsed modalities will deny the validity of free will by saying its unwise to grant freedom in advance of wisdom. this is a form of promoting proceedures, rules and regulations in accordance with approval granted by the ones controling the form. which brings this full circle and right back to where we started with this thread.... authority's misuse of power.
From Belgium,
P, It was in fact Arthur Silber’s Sacred Moment I was referring to. He has written rather extensively over Alice Miller from time to time. I have never heard of the other guy before. All I would say now, is it is one thing trying to understand what motivates those who are in control of things and quite another knowing what to do to protect oneself from the fallout.
masters and slaves. rockafellers and serfs. who needs motives? I guess I'm too simple minded mrsp
Still reading Jensen, I came upon a quote from a Maori healer from New Zealand who is committed to a program of restoring the health of the Earth in his area. "We are suffering from a great illness, and the way to get better is to serve others. We should all be in service. It makes us well. I serve the birds and trees, the earth, the water. Anybody can do it their way. It's action time."
I think there is great wisdom there. I realize that I have been preparing for collapse, resource depletion, etc. as if it were going to happen in the future somewhere "out there", and I had to monitor the "news" all the time to catch it when it happens.
Now, I'm changing my priorities to a new truth - that the change that needs to manifest can only happen as I change myself and how I spend my energy. To strengthen community, I need to expand my own powers of friendship, for instance. I made some soup for a woman in our little town who is dying. I'm going to make her some other stuff this week, too. This is not only to help her. It is also to help me to gain experience at having a ramped up sense of being a friend. Nothing will change until we begin to practice a much heightened state of friendship and stewardship to each other and to the Earth and to the unhumans in our immediate vicinity. Whatever shows up near us is ours to take care of. Pretty simple, really.
By the way, Mrs p...your comment about stocking up and rotating canned goods reminds me of one of the first bonehead disagreements that the Murphinator and I ever had. We could not agree on what "rotating" a can meant. He said it was checking the dates and refreshing out-dated ones for new ones. I had been "rotating" them by turning them upside down once in awhile! lol...what a dork, eh?
From Belgium,
Quite right Mrs P, we should all make appointments to have laser eyes retro fitted just in case the wrong sorts stumble upon our campfire and love doesn't do the trick.
On the other hand I can see that this might be considered the wrong sort of attitude and Freeacre has really discovered the bigger picture.
yes she has b.
fa... heart warming.
all... here's another snap shot of the big pix.... http://www.ecuadorliving.com/2007/
10/30/cotacachi-nursing-home-visit.html
thats the little village where the current mayor's campaign platform consisted of 3 planks... don't lie, don't cheat, and don't be lazy.
Wow, p, that nursing home in Ecuador is quite amazing. I think we have a lot to learn.
fa.... yes, the country and her peoples are a heart warming place. there are a number of stories pointing this out on the main page of that link. i particularly like the one about how they revolt down there. since the revolution meme keeps getting bigger and bigger in the predictive linguistics from the time monks perhaps we should consider lessons... see "strikes, ecuadorian style".
taking some time to read all those stories on that site can remind us that a better life does exist even midst the god forsaken state of affairs we live in here.
it is said in the mayan prophecies that now is the time for the coming together of the eagle and the condor. when we look there and compare to here one has to wonder why they would ever consider such. what is it we of the north could offer that they would want to consider playing with us? do they know something of our potential? have we denied some greatness?
i have such mixed emotion about this prophecy. if the status quo of the eagle is not called to question i see a grim future for them as more and more x-pats head that way where they lock themselves behind gates and feed off the open hearts of the land and its people. you can live there and have a gardener, a maid, a cook, and a driver for about 1K/month. and they have excellent medical and old age care for when the time comes. at fractions of the cost here. this story's a good example... http://www.ecuadorliving.com/2007/
06/29/ecuador-dental-savings.html
past times brought cortez and ethnically cleansed the indiginous peoples, abscounded with their jade and gold and silver and burned their antiquities. in return he gave them the catholic church. some swap! in present times all we've ever offered is to rape their lands for their resources. in return we ploted with their elites to saddle them with debt they'll never repay in the name of progress... roads, light switches and running water.
john perkins tells the story in his books: confessions of an economic hit man and the secret history of the american empire. greg palaste is no stranger to perkins. here's what he has to say of him...
http://www.gregpalast.com/john-perkins-jerk-con-man-shill/
read those books and you'll see what i mean. or listen to any of his interviews...
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/06/05/149254
aren't we americans wonderful??
From Belgium,
What a wonderful and happy place that old folks’ home is. I read it when I got up this morning and was thinking about the following fragment when I jumped in the shower.
“Many of the residents at the home are more than 90 years old. They are looked after by a group of nuns who work voluntarily and apart from a small monthly pension that the residents pay every month the rest of the costs are met from donations by the local Cotacacheñans”.
I was trying to tie it back, very, very loosely, to the subject of the post, i.e. small local power working for the common good instead of against it as is more usually the case. I thought “What a fine example of direct democracy in action this is”, but then I realized that it was not democracy at all. This would involve the local council leader calling a meeting and asking the community to make a contribution to the council and the council supporting the home. So it would become a form of taxation but for something that all had agreed on by a show of hands or referendum or whatever. Then I realized that the only thing it can be is charity. Apart from state charity which is usually referred to as Aid, the two classes which by and large donate are the very rich and the relatively poor. Those who have little, generally give to those who have less and seek no recognition for it. The very rich may put their hand in their pocket for a million so that they will buy a media splash but in reality is equivalent to you or me buying a donut for a kid in the street.
In broad, general terms, I think there is not so much given away from the middle classes who have greasy poles and more materialistic things in their heads. With their present predicament, the phrase “As ye sow, so shall ye reap” flashed through my mind.
Anyway, I just thought I would share these few transient musings with you.
•
freeacre, i think you had a good idea with turning the cans though...because I've noticed the beans in cans get clumped up in one end of the can when I've opened them, all the juice/water is on top and the beans are stuck in the bottom...reversing how they sit on the shelf is a good idea...i need to do that too.
There was a lot of pumpkin carving going one around here...so I took large pieces of the pumpkin, peeled it, diced it and made a curry sauce with onions, cumin, curry powder, fresh green jalapeno chiles and coconut milk and served it over basmati rice...we also roasted a bunch with olive oil, cinnamon, nutmeg, honey, pepper and sea salt. It came out okay and especially tasty on the edges where it got brown. We carried bowls of it around to the neighbors and they loved it. The coconut pumpkin curry & rice was a little spicy hot but it was a big hit. Feeding people is a great way of nurturing. Your mention of soup made me think of a place in San Francisco from many many years ago. A place called M.D.R. in the North Beach area of S.F. which stood for "Minimum Daily Requirement". They served only SOUP,Hot Bread, coffee and tea...and it was sooooo cheap...it was like a poor mans place to go for a hot meal. They were feeding the masses. The people gathered there. It was probably one of the first of its kind...around 1968. All ages came there but it was a true place of the people. They served 3 soups a day and the hot sour dough bread was to die for. I think i'll take the left over pumpkin curry and blend it into soup and take it to a sick friend who's been coughing her head off since the fires. AFN, mrsp
A quote from Paramahansa Yogananda that reminded me of your campfire..."Love is the ocean of eternal unity, where the meandering rivers of all little lives are to merge into the resplendent vastness of blissful, immortal spirit."
The above quote was put with a photo of the Sangre de Cristo Mountains over the Rio Grande at sunrise, Colorado, in a desk calander my hubby gave me. It is the quote for the week of Nov 5 but seemed appropriate for your trout people clan today. mrsp
mrsp, what you and fa can do with food makes me one envious fool of the men in your lives.
A quote from Paramahansa Yogananda that reminded me of your campfire..."Love is the ocean of eternal unity, where the meandering rivers of all little lives are to merge into the resplendent vastness of blissful, immortal spirit."
My god that is just so right on, this beautiful person was read by my brother and i at the old age of 18 for me and 16 for me and we packed our mentalness for a trip to India to find him,alas it was not to be,only for lack of transport.sigh...
Also, i was in S.F. at that time and lived in the Height Ashbury district with a wife and three young children and remenber the MDR quite well, i spent much time at North Beach,the Warf, Golden Gate Park, where the Greatful Dead would play on the back of an old flat bed truck, the Free Clinic on Hight the concerts at Winterland and the Fillmore and ten thousand zillion hippies from every where. man you just flooded my memory banks to over flow, the warm acid nights,the marijuana you could buy a Lid for for $10 (Prince Albert can for tobacco) and a kilo of good cough your lungs out of fine Mexican weed for $50.
Damn them was some good days for sure, would be good if a resurgence of that could occur with the young people, sigh...
Anyway that was then and now is now,and its time to move on to the next phase in which Doris gets her oats,.
p your words are good to wrap the cells around and its the kind of thing thats thought about much by this one,
the allowing the deepness to ascend into the light of awareness and seeing it flower into what may be called truth?
whatever, it makes no difference what its called to me, its just a god damned piece of word.(bush says so) and what the words say are so meaningless to me sometimes it just makes my skin want to crawl off and become a good bag in which to keep stuff. just be all red and runny and give people something to talk about.i just don't understand them.
just kiddin about the skin of course,skin is necessary to get tans with so white people can get dark but not to dark or they might be mistaken for you know what.
a friend sent me an email the other day about a chick looking at a fried egg on a saucer and saying " shit,pete is that you"
well the message that came with it was something about loosing a friend and it was at the bottom of a long list of names and such and i never saw it and as it was kind of funny in its own context i sent it on to many of you and upon seeing the message later i thought it rather callus and thoughtless that someone would send such a thing after the recent loss by several of us that have actually lost friends and loved ones. so if anyone is offended by the email i apologize profusely and promise to read the emails i get a little closer.
im with you sats, phewie,theres a lot of things to contemplate here and it makes my cells just jump up and down like crazy,
murph, so what you are saying is that we are a bunch of unpicked renegades? and are living on borrowed (that means loaned,right?)time and that the authoritative reality is the same as an incurable disease, and that only those that escape or understand their own inter authority are the singular ones that will fly when the big bang happens, or is in the process of happening?
man this shit is just to deep,whatever happened to simple push one button and out pops the answer,fuck!! makes my god damned gizzard jump up and down.
good looking or brains and i had to pick good looking, and all i ended up with was a c sectioned brain and a batch of good looking brats.
better'en nothing i guess.
at least they made the right choice.
and what else your right about i see is the fact that every thing we do supports the "what is" and that travels all the way down to the DNA commands don't it? were fucked!
haven't smoked a joint today,thats whats going on,let me see if the kids found my stash again, those rascals have keen seek and destroy poppa's shit i can tell you that for sure, just ask stoney he can tell you the truth about that one, huh stoney?
i had a talk with the local police about the young'uns experimenting with alcohol and that if they are going to do that i would just as soon prefer them to be safe in my house as opposed to finding their tolerance level behind the wheel of a car and if the neighbors complained about the noise just talk to me about it and i will turn down the music,else ways heres the agenda, anyone puking on my bathroom floor will have me to deal with, ..kids room no problem.puke away.
getting close to voting time here,the inertia is alive and many people are paralyzed with it, so having no expectations about the outcome, will make no difference anyway,we'll just go at it from a different direction , thats all.
i hope that all are enjoying the new lodge to meet in, i know i do.
mrsp, it is with some indignation that you consider this house of ill repute something that your not a member of!!
i think it goes without saying that anyone that can stomach the truth about what goes on here is totally welcome as a family member, right guys?
ok it was 16 degrees last nite and time for more of that temperature sort of preparation,
peace and love
mf
ps has anyone seen zeitgeist-the movie?
I agree with MF - all those pumpkin recipes sound mouth-watering. I brought some chicken noodle soup to the lady across town and her husband laid some homemade beef jerky on us. Best jerky ever! Now I want to get a smoker. I really think that gifting food is a really good way to enhance a sense of community, and it feels really good, too.
I think I am also going to try to maybe lay some gloves and coats on these poor teen-aged kids I see walk past our house on the way to the bus stop in the winter with no damn jackets or anything. I'll pick them up at thrift stores and just have extras on hand. Maybe have some cookies in the pockets. These unfortunate kids with their meth-addled parents are just a disaster waiting to happen. When the shit does hit the fan, I would rather have these kids on my side staying warm and eating a bowl of soup, than looking at us old guys like a target.
fa... great idea. expecially the little surprise in the pockets.
mf... the movie? hell yes. now there's a trilogy to set most any point of view into defense mode so there ain't many i turn on to it cuz its like throwin a bee's nest in a bull's face... all yer gonna do is piss off the bull. such shit just can't be true or the sack we got our rocks in's got a big honkin hole in it. glad you straightened out ms p cuz i was thinkin the same thing.
i got a good bud who droped out way back then and disappeared for several years. we all thought he was dead but he then turned up with all sort of stories that fit right into yours. he got pretty strung out and found safety at the free clinic where he worked for quite awhile. you likely ran into him if you spent any time there. probably shared a joint or 10. small world eh? i was jealous despite having had my own share of the free wheelin times. yup, the whole thing just sorta reversed on itself and now alot those hippies became exactly what they rebelled against. could it be guilt? here's one to ponder... i read a thing that that was lookin from a layer of the cake that identified generational parallels and sez the hippie gen are the re-incarnated gen of fathers and mothers of this country and if their guilt hadn't got em great things could have come from it. instead, here we are today. so close yet so far. breaks my heart to taste it and then have it all turn rotten.
luv... the great equalizer. me-thinks the zombies want us to believe the disease is incurable cuz that way they win and they play the beat like a drum pointed straight at every weakness and imprint which they read like a book. speakin of gizzards and dna, i read some stuff that'd make their's crawl if there's anything to it...
http://inri.wordpress.com/
2007/08/08/perhaps/
thats why we gotta watch out for them russians gettin too close to the realm of human possibility. hypercommunication of information... the zombies will figure out a way to turn it into another cold war or race to see what came first, the chicken or the egg. maybe this is what the pie monks are readin. wadda ya think fa?
personally i think the operative word there is frequencies cuz that's the stuff of vibration and vibration is life. thats the stuff that makes the world go 'round when it comes to the interaction of energies that attrack and repel. gravity can transform into electricity? now there's some food for thought. gravity and anti-gravity and electro-mag is at the core of it all? if thats the case imagine what might be going on in them black holes science wants us to believe are the untimate death trap and the darkness of space they want us to think is a useless vacumn.
DNA can be influenced and reprogrammed by words and frequencies WITHOUT cutting out and replacing single genes? words and frequencies. consciousness and vibration. can consiciouness vibrate on its own or is there an interaction going on there with something non-verbal? like something we feel that don't communicate in words? maybe thats what mf is talkin about. imagine if that's really what god is... a positive and a negative with heart in the middle as the balance point.
p,i think you know of that which i speak about when i mention spirit guides,i have a friend that worked while in the air force,and part of his job was cleaning electronic parts with i think carbon tetrachloride.
he ended up with a brain tumor, operated on, sought relief with various self meds.including coca and other stimulants,lost complete sense of smell,and a mind full of voices which have driven him to thoughts of suicide many times.
the tv talks to him also, other mental intrusions of which many i can relate to after ingesting something that was a mixture of acid and god only knows what at one time back in about 71 or thereabouts. never knew what this was until later, and that what was ingested opened up pathways to a place that i think occurs very rarely in normal? circumstances. i was unprepared was a mother fucking understatement if there ever was one. i think it took about a year for everything to calm down as repaired physical brain function returned but was never the same again.p it was the most horrendous thing and could never ever be something that a person would volunteer to subject them selfs to because there is no way to experience it without going there.
the retwist of cerebral connectors took place slowly and i would never have pulled out of it i think without the love and help of my good friend and ally martha, it was a long and lonely road my friend, and the trail led to places that i remember now as only shutters,but get this,there were sweet voices interjected into the medium from time to time singing me out of the abyss and giving me courage to withstand the onslaught of every kind of unimaginable evil nastiness.
it was mother fucking horrible beyond horrible.
ok, the gist of this had to do i think was the fact that what was a normal in my DNA heritage was shit on by the invasion and was made to like you say (DNA can be changed by thought) changed into some kind of self hatred big time as a result of being conquered and subjected to the point of death,to not deny that which was a place of sweet for the most part in the safety of my ancestral now.
this re awaking came with a large price tag of course,but what the fuck, nothing ventured nothing gained right? ha!
to mention that some of the things encountered were marvelous and wonderous things, that brought such joy of tears and the heart trying to leap from the chest because of the unbearable intensity of a region drawn into and of such that one never ever had desire to return from.does this sound familiar?
are we all connected by that strand of the A that brings us to completion at some point? and it is to return home?,just to touch our origin and feel that which we really are?,unlike the bullshit we receive from the evil,which is only a name signifying nothing other then that which is assigned it?
was there a point to all of this mindless chatter?
yes, there is a barrier which separates us not only from one another but from our spirit,our creator,it is real it is physical,it is a door,,,,but who dares to open such a door, not me by god they say,and i hold no blame for those that cringe because behind that door is hell,before the knees are bent to the floor and the begging of forgiveness for the evil that we have allowed our selfs to be touched by, no not touched, sought after with great thirst,for it is the grand illusion of safety, but it is sand we drink and will gag on before its all over, this is the truth that men seek but do not find because the cost is just to great, and for some it is drawn upon them by an inner wish to complete the journey whatever the price,and my god what a price.
so...we spin off into eternity, wisps of nothingness, strangely remembering something that we almost remember and thats it.its over.
my dream spirit langosta wishes each and everyone here all the blessings that our mother earth has to give,and that the new dawn that is upon us sing bright thoughts for our love for one another,let us live in peace and know that we are on the right path of life.we will no longer deny that which we are.we are god.
aho
mf
anyone heard from RAS?
mf
From, Belgium,
That thought about Ras was going through my head too.
Mf, you have by accident picked on someone who knows a bit about tri chlor ethylene. It is used as an industrial degreaser and dry cleaning fluid. In my research chemist days, I was working on optimizing catalyst levels and process operating conditions for making tri and per. As you say it is nasty stuff. All of my experiments were done in a fume cupboard but you really made sure you were condensing everything in sight and nothing got into the fume cupboard to begin with. In those days there were over 100 labs at the research centre and with so many diverse products and byproducts you couldn’t put in a trap to catch everything. What was eventually discharged onto the roof was available to be drawn into the airco!! Is this what they mean by recycling. The thing people forget when working with such a powerful degreaser is that the human body contains an awful lot of fatty tissue particularly the ball of fat around your kidneys which can quietly disappear along with the fatty tissue in the brain. At the time they warned us about doing any energetic activity (read sex) within a couple of hours of working with the stuff, that’s how bad it is. Sorry to hear of your friend mf, I never had experience of anything like that but we knew the downside and took precautions.
Freeacre’s story of doing baking and visiting the sick and the elderly reminded me of a story which happened last Spring. The old lady who lives opposite us had been in and out of hospital and one day she half collapsed whilst out front collecting her mail. Chris went flying out of the apartment to help her and get her back into her house after making sure she was up to doing it. She went over from time to time to keep an eye on her say once a week when her large family did not visit, offering nothing more than friendship. Chris even invited over to our place but we live on the first level and the old lady was not good with stairs. After a few weeks the family put a stop to these visits, we never found out why but in this age we live in now we figured the family were concerned about things going missing with a stranger in the house or maybe even getting in the way of their inheritance. Sometimes you try to do the best thing but sometimes it is not always perceived the way it is meant. A sad reflection on our times.
all.... were mf's words not valid there would be none to mine. the only valid "inspiration" is one's own feeling sense of right time, right space, and right thing to do to move along in the name of life and love. god is infinite and so it follows that god can adjust infinitly. thus there are many paths. seek your own truth. intent and desire are the key motivators.
mf my brother... your words that warn are wise. any encouragement to explore what lay behind the door should be accompanied by such words of caution and i am remiss for not having done so. thankyou for straightening out my crooked line.
there is indeed a fine line between the "beyond horror" and the "beyond glorious" eh. if we dare to explore what lay behind the doors it is wise to question our motives and be clear on our intent as such seem to be the agents that either protect us or leave us victum to the evil whims of not so nobel energies only to be hopefully delivered by the sweet call from altruistic, loving voices. you have described what is to me a very real place which i refer to as the gap which includes hell. it is the place where all that has not been accepted unconditionally ends up. the space between the poles when that space has not been bridged with unconditional loving acceptance and balanced in heart.
somewhere in this god forsaken place lay our own differentiated, individual gap. to go or not to go. that is the question. i would never judge one who chooses not to explore. nor should i encourage anyone to explore against their will. yet, for me, this is the very realm where lay the past which predicts our future. it is what jung was referring to when he said, "when an inner situation is not made conscious, it appears outside as fate." metaphysically it is the subconscious at least and highly likely more. physically it exists in us and all around us as energy. yet, can we see it? no more than we can run electricity down and tie a string around it. we only see the reflections in our behaviors and in various forms in the world around us as it plays out its influences upon our destiny. left unchecked, it is our destiny. we get an even more vivid reflection of it when that nice guy across the street "snaps" and kills his own family. we get another every time we drop a bomb on our fellow man. we got another when they started spiking military munitions with du. can we change that destiny? i believe we can. not only can but must if we are to sustain life. for much is going on to take life down. i believe we are part and parcel to it and responsible for our own personal roles and so i do what i do. to believe otherwise would be to believe i am powerless at best and nothing at worst.
your people, especially your shamen, know well this place of which you speak. and as you know there are substances with psychotropic properties that are used to help gain access to these realms, ie ayahuasca. this all took a macrabe twist in the 60's and 70's when synthetics entered manifestation and began to be used by those we charged with protecting us. such use became the modus operandi of mk ultra, a program of mind control they would like for us to believe no longer exists but does to this day. it has just changed forms and moved even deeper into the gap. b's words re "read sex" were not lost on me. they know the effect of using perverted sex. no other exchange of energy has such an impact on the psychie.
personally i have not used such motivators, synthetic or organic, even back in the good ole days, though i hung with many who did. the closest i got then manifested as the prison of obsession for the alcoholic variety of spirits. though effective, that is child's play to consciousness altering. what you describe as a trip "one never ever had desire to return from" is only familar from what they told me. my experience of the sweet voice calling into the abyss has been more of trying to be one than hearing one. both then, when a friend was in trouble. and now, in my own process. what you describe as "mother fucking horrible beyond horrible" clearly is familar as i've had those horror windows open up in my own process work and everything you describe is there and more. i've only called thru the open window for that which is mine to come home. even that can be quite a trip when it answers along with the sorting out. getting close enough for the windows to open can be very dangerous so i use formal sacred ritual and manta that calls for protection...
langosta... i feel your connection to our mother earth who is aspect of our mother of everything and your connection to the higher realms of spirit. you speak your wisdom to our brother mf who, with open heart, passes it along around our campfire. we are grateful and our fire burns warmer. i borrow the words of scott boyer, another brother who knew of your wisdom when he wrote...
upon my word what does it mean?
is it love or is it me
that makes me change so suddenly
from looking out
to feeling free?
i sit here lying in my bed
wondering what it was i said
that made me think i'd lost my head
when i knew i'd lost my heart instead
so won't you please read my signs,
be a gypsy
tell me what i hope to find deep within me
because you can find my mind,
please be with me
i ask for your presence, and for your help, guidence, and protection in the same way i ask our mother, father, god to guide me and protect me in a cacoon of their loving, living, healing light as i move along in the natural progression of my healing process. this is my mantra. i accept that we are indeed god and i proclaim it. thankyou for your wisdom and guidence.
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