Sunday, July 12, 2009

ENOUGH ALREADY

by Freeacre

Freeacre contribution to pie. Rhubarb, strawberry Meringue.


Currently 9 hens, 7 pullets and one protector.



New batch of baby rabbits from Thursday.


Young rabbits. Now have 10 of these. Just finally rounded up 5 of them that managed to escape. Live traps and a fish net did the job.


Garden is getting really flush, finally. Warmer weather has helped a lot. Having to cover the garden tonight because of threat of hail.



Greenhouse doing good also. Pole bean climbing to the stars.


Freeacre post;

Let me state for the record that so far, I am not impressed with the congressional plan to extend medical coverage to those without insurance. It is looking to me that it will funnel even more money into the greedy bastard insurance companies and do little to limit the outrageous costs of corporate medical care in this country. Personally, if it were up to me, I would work to eliminate all but catastrophic medical insurance. I would encourage the creation of simple, non-profit neighborhood health clinics, perhaps like the ones in Cuba. It shouldn’t cost an arm and a leg to go to a doctor for a checkup or in response to a minor mishap. I would also study the health care delivery systems of Canada and France, and even Ecuador and take the best elements and combine them to extend basic medical care to everyone in the country. Expensive equipment like MRI and CAT scans would be shared regionally among several clinics. And, yes, I would limit the services to something that the society can afford.

WHAT?? Put us on a budget that would be sustainable?? I can hear it now. The WWII generation (who like to think of themselves as “the greatest generation”) will strike back at any thought of limitation like a snarling ball of venomous cobras with all kinds of vindictive threats and accusations. It has already started. Get a load of this self-absorbed grey-haired nutter ranting about Obama holding a “Nazi revival” and attempting to institute “Hitler’s eugenics movement” because the plan might entail some reasonable cost/benefit concept. This is the kind of thing that I get frustrated by the “late night” sites like Truthseeker and Rense over.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ho-0SHFEgGo

I am so sick of these paranoid, navel-gazing miscreants. I’ve heard their warped shit all my life. They’ve been wrong about everything, and their “never enough” generation has pretty much ruined the world for life on earth.

These are the ones who came home from the war and got the GI Bill, which paid for their schooling and gave them access to low interest, fixed rate mortgages for their homes. They weren’t put into debt servitude for the foreseeable future in order to get a professional degree like the kids are now. Their parents somehow just disappeared and let them take over the government and corporations and run the world practically from the day they took off their uniforms. The same guys are STILL there! The sons of bitches like Rumsfeld, Cheney, Kissinger, Bush, etc. held on to power until they are well into their 80’s. Look at the Senate. The worse they are, the longer they seem to live. They are the ones who created the military/industrial complex and our nuclear based empire. They are the ones who presided over the chemical companies that have poisoned the planet, the banks that have sucked up most of the money, the corporations that have off-shored the jobs and hidden their profits so they can’t be taxed. They are the ones who raised the rents to ten times what they paid in the past, and killed the unions so the working class could not make a living wage. While they were working, the employers paid for their medical insurance. My son, on the other hand, never had any.

So now, when it is suggested that maybe an open-heart surgery procedure on an 80 year old or a feeding tube installed on a 90 year old so she can suffer an additional 3 months in a nursing home, these nattering nutcases spit and fume about how “unfair” it all is. They should be told to sit down and shut the fuck up.

This is a quote from the AMA Ethics publication: “ … Thirty or 40 years ago it was taken for granted that the elderly were not good candidates for organ transplantation, dialysis, or advanced surgical procedures. That has changed. Age alone is no longer considered a reason to deny necessary care. It is widely assumed that equity demands that the elderly be treated like everyone else; that is, age has become irrelevant in treatment decisions.”

Yeah, and it’s likely to stay that way until the very last one of them is finally dead. By then, there won’t be anything left for the rest of us (as usual).

The irony is that this shameful inability to have any sense of “enough” is not helping the majority of them either. More than once, I have gone into nursing homes and been besieged with elderly patients begging me to take them out of there and let them go home to die. It was horrifying.

Murph’s own mother, finally was allowed to die this week by the nursing home that pretty much held her hostage in Texas for the last two years. It’s funny how the timing coincided with the depletion of her annuity funds. Oh, the money’s gone? Time to call hospice. Until then, her daughter was told that if Melba died under her watch, she’d be held responsible. Melba had been a member of the Hemlock Society for years and years. She had never wanted to be put in a nursing home and languish in pitiful ill health. But, once she had a stroke and made the mistake of telling a nursing home staff person that she planned on going out with some dignity, it became impossible. They had her, and any intervention by the family would have been labeled “murder.” Sort of like “eugenics,” the meaning of words are changed to suit the ends of those in power.

The population of this country is pathologically unable to come to terms with the concept of “enough.” There’s never enough money, enough profits, enough people, enough time, enough stuff. Therefore, we are destroying the quality of life on this earth. We are incarcerating ourselves in this country which is becoming a vast prison plantation.

68 comments:

Anonymous said...

DAMN, i LUV a good FA rant! Ain't no medicine to compare!! just what the doc ordered too. now i can sleep sound knowing when i'm so damn pissed i'm at a loss for words - which is most of the time lately - i can count on FA to fill the void. hell, i couldn't top that even if i could find words!! ...p

Anonymous said...

From Belgium

Important things first, our thoughts are with Murph and you also Freeacre. I think it was not altogether unexpected since I remember that Murph visited about a year ago and said at that time that it probably would be his last visit to Texas. Even though it is expected it alters life for those who are left when it happens.

Strange this subject should come up today since last night I watched a film called Damaged Care about a doctor making a stand against the hospital practice of kicking long term sick patients out of the hospital when they start to become uneconomic.

I don’t know too much about your medical system but I do know that those malingerers who take out of the pot without putting too much in are not the cause of the trouble and Congress are not the ones who have the ultimate say either. Congress used to have two rubber stamps which read PASSED and REJECTED but the REJECTED one got lost during the war however they found one that said PENDING and they use that one in its place to show their teeth like they did in the first bail out bill. The only question is whether the people choose to play a rigged system or not. When it comes to gambling on your family’s future health I guess they have got you by the gonads.

freeacre said...

... Aw, shucks, p.
And, thanks, Belgium. Melba was a wonderfully feisty and independent woman who loved to travel and had an insatiable curiosity. She was a card-carrying member of the Smithsonian and probably toured more museums and such than just about anybody. At 90, she got on a train to upper Saskatchewan to go and see the Northern Lights for herself. She fought tooth and nail to establish one of the first recycling centers in Arkansas. She used to send me her old "Guns and Ammo" newsletters. What a lady. We will miss her, but are relieved that her suffering is finally over, and Murph's sister will no longer have the burden of her daily care and battling the paperwork and nursing home staff for the simplest things.
Not much to do now but make extra popcorn and watch the congress make fools of themselves and expose their obvious corruption driven responses to the appointment of that "radical Latina" to the Supreme Court, the Consumer Protection Dept. and the Health Care Bill. The wheels have definitely come off the wagon, and it is painfully obvious that the reptilian lobbyists are running the show. Just wondering what it's going to take before the people begin to fight back.
Oh yeah, did you see where it has been suggested that California fix their budget woes by legalizing pot and collecting a $100 PER OUNCE tax on it!! This on a medicine that comes free from our Mother, the Earth. The sick freaks.

Dave said...

Sadly, it's not just the elites who cannot seem to get enough, neither can the plebes.

As you know, I'm on a road trip, and I can't get over how many humongous vehicles - motor homes, huge pickup trucks towing trailers, huge pickup trucks towing boats, and so forth - are plying the roads. I cringe every time I spend $20 to add gas to my VW, which gets 30-40 MPG. How do these yahoos who drive these enormous rigs pay for their gasoline?

And do these people really need these gaudy toys? I've done rather well staying in motels and renting boats. Would I be any better off driving my own 40' motor home or towing my own boat?

Whenever I see someone driving one of these huge, highway-clogging contraptions, I cannot help but wonder what self-perceived deficiency they are trying to compensate for.

Dave - Erstwhile Urban Wanderer

Dave said...

You know, I wish I had waited ten seconds before leaving my comment because at this very moment, some yahoo in an extended pickup truck, towing a 30' trailer (!) is doing his darnedest to hit every car in the cramped parking lot of the motel where I'm staying. I mean, really, what kind of intellect drives a rig that size into a tiny parking lot?

Dave

murph said...

Dave,

LOL Welcome to the American dream.

MoonRaven said...

The American Nightmare is more like it. Thank you Freeacre for writing this post, and I'm sorry Murph for your loss. She sounds like she was a wonderful woman.

And the reason most people can't get enough is because they're scared. They're scared that if they don't grab more and more it will all be taken away from them. That and because they assume that if they've had this much so far they will always be able to have this much.

I feel like I need to take a good portion of the public on my (metaphorical) lap and say "There, there, it's going to be alright," while slowly weaning them away from all of their very unneeded toys (SUVs, pickup trucks, trailers, motorhomes, boats, etc, etc, etc). Will someone please tell these people they'd live a lot happier with less?

freeacre said...

I agree with you, MoonRaven. I noted an interview on TV with a guy who grew up ina small town. He said he never experienced himself as "poor," although his family had very little money. Remembers happy memories of childhood and simple pleasures. Kinda like p, remembering his mom's fry bread with such enthusiasm.
It's the simple things like sitting on your mom's lap while she reads you a story, playing with a new puppy, going fishing with you dad, playing at the creek, organizing beach parties or picnics, pot lucks with good friends, singing together in a choir, garage bands, etc, etc. that give real pleasure. It's not about designer clothing, NFL sportswear, new pickup trucks, McMansions or Happy Meals. This so-called "collapse" might just be the best thing that happens to us if it leads to a simpler and more healthy and enjoyable lifestyle.

Anonymous said...

From Belgium

ROSEBUD

murph said...

Belgium,

I presume ROSEBUD is reference to part of the Indian wars?

Anonymous said...

From Belgium

And there I was trying to get the prize for the most pertinent comment in the fewest number of words ;-) I do so hate it when you have to explain these things but it was somewhat cryptic. Rosebud was in fact Citizen Kane’s dying word which no one understood at the time. For those who have not seen the film, Citizen Kane was a one man mob who stood on anybody and everybody to build the biggest newspaper empire in the USA. The character was based on J Randolph Hurst. After his death his house was being cleared out and in the attic they found a children’s sledge which bore the name Rosebud. At his moment of death the thing which meant most to him was not the great media empire he had built but simple childhood pleasures. Anyway, I thought it fitted in with what had gone before. I wonder how many others I managed to confuse.

murph said...

Belgium,

LOL Citizen Kane. Nope, got to admit you lost me on that one. I was trying to figure out what the battle of Rosebud had to do with previous comments. sigh.

freeacre said...

I got it, Belgium. It was, in a word, perfect.

RAS said...

I'm sorry for your loss, murph. She is no longer suffering and that is some consolation, at least.

I agree with the 'enough already' idea. The only thing I would add is that most of the baby boom generation is as bad or worse than their elders. It's crazy that we'll give a 90 year old open heart surgery so he can live another year but refuse life-saving surgery to a 20 year old because he/she doesn't have insurance. I'm sorry, but let the old fart die and save the kid. This is common sense. WTF is wrong with us?

Moonraven, FA, I think much of the public would react to that the way a spoiled child would to losing some of his toys -and need the same reaction. ;-)

rockpicker said...

Hey, Baz

If you're able to get this, any update on the recent temblor/tsunami?

freeacre said...

I am ashamed to admit, Raz, that I'm afraid you are right about us Boomers. We had a good vision and analysis in the day about what is wrong and what is needed, but we got our ass kicked by the "greatest generation." The ones who held onto their values made a few lame changes that mostly got co-opted or morphed into something that benefited "the man" (like the women's liberation movement). The rest either identified with the old corrupt suits and spent their careers committing moral fellatio or sitting on the couch zoning out when they weren't working their ass off to keep a roof over their family's heads and some shitty food on the table. What a tragic waste of life.
But, all is not lost. Maybe you X'ers, or Millenialls or whatever you call yourselves, will put it together and pull out something wonderful from all this compost. I just got a feeling that things are going to get better.
And, yeah - thoughts go out to those in New Zealand where they had a 7.6 earthquake!

Palooka's Revenge said...

FA... oh, the hippie generation. our gen eh? the last time the stuff of this generation came around it was the stuff of the founder's generation. that's how significant what was going on 40 years ago was. a promise for a new future.

there's a significant number who ended up betraying the very thing they were rebelling for... their own ideals for that future. for the rest of their lives. with the betrayal rationalized by various reasons. some that appear credible i'm sure. like raising a family. but betrayal? that's serious bid'ness. and why wouldn't the two mix in the first place if those ideals were genuine? and they were ideals. a few did. but most didn't. instead, they became part of bid'ness as usual and consequently, so did their kids. worse, they deny they did it by making all those excuses for it.

then there's always the possibility the rebellion itself was just an excuse. a rationalization of the foot loose and fancy free to be a part of sex, drugs, and rock-n-roll.

more than likely both scenarios are credible. a little of this. a little of that. but could there be a common thread as the motivator? in play no matter where the players came down?

my guess is guilt got 'em. judgement against self exacerbated by guilt!

guilt. exactly what today's so-called 'political correctness' and 'social correctness' is all about. the dots connect if we dare to look.

rockpicker said...

Jesus, Baz;

Looks like a whole lotta shakin' goin' on down there. Com'on back...

rockpicker said...

Palooka and Freeacre, (sorry, gotta do this in two posts.)

A friend emailed today and sent a link to this year-old Cryptogon posting, (accidentally, as it turns out.) I read all the comments, and thought this exchange between sharon and loveandlight might be of interest to you both. Another synchronisity, I guess.


"# sharon Says:
June 19th, 2008 at 7:10 pm

Interesting astrological observation, Loveandlight.

I was looking through the online ephemerides at:

http://www.astro.com/swisseph/swepha_e.htm?lang=f

The last time we had a Saturn/Uranus opposition was 1964 through 1967. Plus Pluto was conjunct Uranus and/or square Saturn during those years.

For those who weren’t around at the time, those were the years of greatest activity in the Civil Rights and anti-war movements. The Watts and Detroit riots were in 1965, and the Newark riots in 1967. And, for those who remember, 1967 was “the summer of love.”

Those years marked a “sea change.”

So we have a similar Saturn/Uranus opposition in 2008–looks like it’s exact in early November. Pluto in Sag involvement is loose, 10 degrees out of square with either planet. The opposition is exact again in February 2009 and September 2009. Saturn comes into a square with Pluto in December, 2009.

By 2010, Saturn and Uranus are again in opposition, and the Pluto square has become much more exact–in August, 2010, Saturn and Uranus are in an exact opposition, and Pluto is only 3 degrees from an exact square to both planets.

If I were going to try to interpret these transits, I would say that things will really begin to get ugly in November of this year–looks like right before the election.

In 2009, we’ll begin to see real, serious economic problems manifest. The issues through 2009 will be jobs (Virgo) and oil (Pisces). Also health care (Virgo) and water (Pisces).

By the time Pluto comes into square in August, 2010, the signs involved will be Aries, Libra, and Capricorn.

So, what do you make of the August, 2010, aspects, Loveandlight?

These are all cardinal signs–very proactive–and relate to social structures, and the desire for independence versus cooperation–war versus peace–and social class issues.

The last time we had Pluto in Capricorn was in the 1770s, when it received an exact square from Saturn in Libra in November, 1776, when there were significant battles of the Revolutionary War.

There’s a Saturn/Uranus opposition in January, 1783, right before the Revolutionary War officially ended in April, 1783. Looks like the war was more or less over in January, 1783.

The alignments in August, 2010 look explosive to me. They are very similar to alignments in the late 60s. Up until 2010, Virgo and Pisces are involved, as in the 60s–and then in 2010, the signs involved are Libra, Aries, and Capricorn.

So I am thinking that the focus changes in 2010.

Loveandlight, maybe you could look a the ephemerides link above and tell me what you think. I’m very curious."

more

rockpicker said...

...Man, Woman, things are getting weird. Had a big beautiful cuke keel limp mid-day for no reason. Went to bed wondering. Watered next day to find maggots infesting the plant stalk. Pause. Root maggots? On a cucumber? No. Fly larvae eating mushy bonemeal I unwittingly placed too heavily and too close to hearty feeders, thinking it's a great source of potassium and if a little is good, a lot will be better. HA!

Had to go all over the beds and pull back slimy, squirming handfuls of smelly fly-bait from the nightshades. Ooh...

Then there's Gaza, and Israeli DU.

And Jane Burgermeister, who
is my hero of the week. I will turn off NPR to hear her speak.
Clif High tells us whistleblowers
abound after mid-summer, though
some may not fare well. No
unexpected bummer. Tell me, again,
how David Kelly slashed his wrist,
with a dull knife, and left no muss? Organised evil dismisses us.

Sonnenfeld, for FEMA, has 19 movies that he shot. And Richard Gage's explaining how the fires weren't that hot.

BRIC has met, and decided,
it's not in their interest
to carry US debt.

Schiff says we'll repudiate what we owe. Wanna bet?

baz said...

Jesus—Baz here: posting from my Submersible 20,000 leagues under the sea .. ah, I know—should be more serious, but—can't help myself .. bit-of-a-smartass, don't ya-know. Well, there's reasons for seasons .. they say humor doth good like a medicine, and well .. been a-bit downcast lately—nuh, not looking for sympathy—I'm the 'glass-is-half-full' kind of guy, as opposed to—the 'glass-is-half-empty' kind of guy. It's just that—the 'news' is SO bleak these daze .. and that's just the 'doomer newz' (blogz), without even getting to 'The Mainstream' news—which I've been avoiding some .. for above-mentioned reasons.

OK—getting long-winded now .. my point—didn't even know there was a tsunami .. in New Zealand—hah, until I read about it on TCC! Had to go turn on the TV—laugh aloud .. yeah, there it was, at the other end of the country—no fatalities. I'm almost near the top—even though, I've noticed I show-up on overseas websites as 'beaming' from about 300 miles to the south? So don't believe everything on the DARPA network!

Ah, there has however been a tornado which ripped through here, caused some damage to roofs. Big tree took-out my mail-box. 1 fatality.

freeacre said...

Glad that you are okay, Baz.
Really fascinating stuff, Rockpicker. Bill Herbst has done astrological analysis that seems to confirm the similarities between this time and the late 60's-early 70's as well. Sounds good to me. If we have the heavens helping out to create a big change in consciousness like it did in the past, that should help a bunch.
I was thinking further about why the big switch didn't do so well for the Boomers, after p's input. Part of it was the ruthless blowback from the PTB. But, additionally, the elements of social and sexual change combined with the financial and ecological imperatives, well, it was just more than we could deal with all at once. We were very young, after all. A lot of us got all messed up in relationships and sexual entanglements (remember "free love" and "open relationships" - yeow!)that turned out to be quite catastrophic. The issues are huge, the forces are elemental and karmic and will take generations to work through. So, I think we probably should forgive ourselves for our failures, and move on. Probably should forgive "the greatest generation" as well, although I personally am sorta stuck on wanting to kick their ass.

Palooka's Revenge said...

the ruthless blowback from the PTB

FA... well ya, i hear ya. and you did say that was just part of it. but i keep trying to put it into a context wherein a personal responsibility and thus a personal power potential is implied. why? cuz if we were no more than pawns in those ruthless motherfuckers' game back then it wouldn't be any different now.

i wholehearted agree with you on the forgive ourselves and move on thing. but thats my point darlin. we didn't and we haven't. probably because the vast majority really don't know how aside from giving the concept some lip service totally inept at effecting any sustainable change on a causal level. have absolutely no idea how to move along toward finding and understanding a true self compassion and self forgiveness.

if we had then today would look alot different. therein lie the evidence. and i doubt we'll move on until we do. we'll just keep doing the same ole stupid things albeit in some form shift which just makes it that much harder to connect the dots. and 10 to 1 the reason we can't forgive ourselves is because we do not recognize the judgements against ourselves running undercurrent. and we do not recognize the imprints fueling those judgements. and we do not understand the role guilt is playing here. add in a generous helping of guilt that just clamps down on anything that might move and we have a receipe guaranteed to repeat the whole sorid affair again. it will look different and because it does we'll say, we changed. but it will be the same ole crap running the show producing the same ole results. THAT is why history repeats itself. my 2 cents.

rp... the dots keep connecting don't they.

all... clif and george scheduled on c2c, 21st, 10:00 to 1:00 PDT. same date as the eclipse. on many AM stations. or, if yer system can support streamlink, you can buy a 30 day script for less than the price of a movie. you can listen when you want and you don't have to sit through those annoying 10 minute breaks at the top and btm of the hour. buckle yer seatbelt. otta be a doozie.

rockpicker said...

So, besides Palooka, anybody out there read the ALTA report? Mighty quiet out there...

Baz said...

a cold squally night .. inspiring for meditative musings on combating the darkness that threatens our souls .. scrawling—FORGIVE ME—in Blud: Slavic mythology, an evil-deity that causes disorientation and leads a person aimlessly around and round.

Imagine John Lennon sensed Mark Chapman behind him, about to shoot him four times in the back .. and turned, smiled, then persuaded him, he had only been kidding with his quip about being greater than Jesus, that hey, he wasn't actually being serious. I mean, c'mon, nobody can be bigger than Jesus .. can they?

No heaven. No hell—only sky. They became friends: the schizophrenic son of a U.S. Air Force, staff sergeant who would beat him and his mother, and, a peace activist who wanted to give peace a chance. It's easy if you try.

Together, they hatched a plan: to convince every soldier, in every Army, in every country, to defect simultaneously. That on the stroke of midnight they would simply walk-out. Nothing to kill or die for.

It isn't hard to do .. Is it?

Anonymous said...

Trying to send you an email, but it keeps bouncing back.--Carolyn Baker

rockpicker said...

A Question For The Emperor

When a bunker buster
falls in the desert
and no one
shows you photos
of the shadows
of little bodies
etched on concrete walls,
is the wailing
of mothers
drowned out
by the whir
of rotors?

Anonymous said...

Very frustrating indeed. I'm trying to reply to your email which I received earlier this week. Here's what comes back:

This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.

A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its
recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed:

sunrise3@coinet.com
retry timeout exceeded

Another alternative would be for you to email be at cbaker2@vtc.edu. and see what happens. This is incredibly strange. Thanks.

Tim Gilbert said...

Couldn't have said it better. For having such a realistic view of the downfall of the American empire, you need to be praised for staying in the game, working in your community and having what is clearly the love of life to keep fighting. Love you, always will.

Palooka's Revenge said...

nice story baz except chapman wouldn't have believed him or he wouldn't have been there in the first place. lennon was serious. and its arguable that he was right. but he tried to take it back when he got so much chit about it. guess what made him do it? thats when he really got in trouble.



CB... i've had that same trouble trying to send sunrise mail. what worked for me was to go back to an older received mail if you have one and reply to that. cut n past from there.

murph said...

Folks,

Those trying to contact us by email. We checked with our provider and they told me that they had to have more info about how the email was sent, by what method. They declare there is no problem at their end. They further said that you could send an email to

support@notspam.coinet.com

explaining the situation and that email would not get sidetracked.

This is a first for us. I have no idea what is causing the problem.

freeacre said...

Tim,
I don't even understand how good it feels to have you join us at our cyber campfire. For some reason, it brings tears to my eyes. I think is has to do with the feelings we have been recently talking about - the loss of idealism or betrayal of values from when we were young.
I have to explain to others at the campfire that Tim was a dear friend of mine when I was in high school. He skipped school with a few others to attend my wedding when I eloped and married a draft resister and left for Canada back in 1967. Ah, we had such dreams of creating a better world "after the revolution."
In our own ways, we have made a good contribution over the years. But, the world has drifted towards more and more corporatism and materialism and imperialism and all the ills and some new ones in spite of good people's best efforts. It is a heartbreak.
But, after 40 years, it is amazing to me that we could meet up again in cyberspace, and it's all still here. In a way, it's a little triumph of the soul. We have so few, it's good to celebrate when it happens. Yea!
I hope you know you always have a place here with us.
aho

Palooka's Revenge said...

it's all still here.

FA... and therin lie redemption. the candle glowing in the darkness.

i'm so happpy for you in this reunion. especially in context of the circumstances.

TIM... welcome to the loony bin i hope you hang around our campfire and take the talking stick when the spirit moves you.

MURPH... i've had this email problem come up on a couple occasions. now that i think more about it it involved attempt to send a new email. i resolved it by going to a received mail, deleting everything except the adde, and then pasting in my new mail. FA may recall.

CB is apparently trying to reply. however, i'm pretty sure her error message (as noted above) and mine were the same. fwtw.

and if i may add... my condolances on the passsing of your mom heartlessly missing in my earlier comments. fa's short, yet poignent bio shows she was an exceptional woman. not to short you credit due but that explains to some extent why you are so exceptional... the nut falls close to the tree and all that. if its any comfort to you, know that her spirit fuels the flame of the aforementioned candle. and i might add, the light and warmth emitting from our trout clan campfire. it is indeed a part of that candle as well... p

murph said...

I wish to thank everyone for the condolences concerning my mothers death. It is almost surreal. The health care industry forced the continuance of my mothers life far beyond anything reasonable and contrary to her desires. My sister was then responsible for making sure that this took place. For over two years it had become a tremendous cross upon her shoulders due to this kind of policy. It is so sad all the way around.

Indeed my mother was an independent soul and in many cases extremely so. Thus she got involved in many local issues wherever she was living that did not sit well with the local power merchants. On several fronts, she fought years to change some aspect of political life where she lived, often with no resolution. When I was growing up, and had little interest in politics, both my parents were quite cynical of big government and their manipulations, at all levels. But, it was mother that was the more engaged in the battles locally. When they worked in South America, they got into a tussle with the Rockefeller's manipulation of school funding and had to leave Columbia under duress.

To my parents I give credit for encouraging me to become a prolific reader and learning to be critical in that reading when at my peak of digesting printed material I would read a book a day. I also give them credit for instilling my desire to learn for it's own sake, not for money or influence, but to just know and then go out and experience the life around me with curiosity and to verify or deny what I had read. Indeed, I had respect for my parents and consider them unique individuals of substantial integrity within their frame of reference.

Again thank you all

Anonymous said...

I wasn't going to comment but thought of something that might pertain to the discussion.

Back in the late 70s Louis Rukyser gave investment advice on the radio and in syndicated newspaper articles. One day I heard him say on the radio that nursing homes were the place to invest as they would be returning the greatest profit in the near future. I was aghast and wrote him that I thought things such as nursing homes should be non-profit. Evidently, I wasn't the only one because in his next newspaper article, he wrote that those of us who felt that way were Neo-communists.

Then this noon, I was reading one of the fat books I read while I'm eating -- ones that are too heavy to hold while sprawling on the sofa. This is Bertrand Russell's History of Western Philosophy -- it was on sale and I remembered it being a classic.

He's explaining Rome's situation and wrote this: "The expenses of the war, while in progress, were defrayed by executing rich men and confiscating their property." p.272. Sounds like a great idea, doesn't it.

Caroline

murph said...

Caroline,

Interesting that you should have just seen Bertrand Russel's book of Western Philosophy just now. Lol. It was one of my philosophy text books back in 1959. I consider it a very well thought out book and wrote several extensive papers on Russell in college. My prof didn't like him and we battled in class every day. Course my prof was a German Jew and Russell considered religion to have set back mankind by 5000 years. Cripes, I may still have that term paper somewhere. lol.

Neo-Commie huh? lol That is a hoot.

freeacre said...

Carolyn,
I liked your comment on Charles Smith's blog about our cultures propensity to put barriers in the way of saving money and attempts to be thrifty. We are finding the same kinds of objections to simple things like selling homemade pie and bread at the Farmer's Mkt. They want everything from a certified kitchen and shit like that. Really stupid since the bad contaminations have all come from licensed commercial outfits.

freeacre said...

Sorry, I meant Caroline, not Carolyn. Two different people.

Baz said...

at the risk of saying too much .. or not enough, ah, belated condolences also Murph—no acknowledgment necessary—you already said it. Been trained to-be a heartless baztard, so can overlook such formalities—Thanks Palooka. Hard to teach an old dog new—but hey, can learn—still relatively young .. purr

Caroline, Caught an interesting/informative analysis on the radio today: History of The American Dream, referring back when: 'Government grew beyond the consent of the governed.' And another line I hastily scrawled onto an envelope—pushed by the propagandists: 'You were a fool if you didn't assume debt.' People were cajoled—bullied, made to feel un-american. War-bonds .. more bombs! There is an innate desire to belong to the group, in all of us, necessary for survival. This is preyed upon us all. In nature, weak—perceived alone—fall victim.

OK, now the next thing—I'm goin' to have to tread carefully .. controversial—the fat book you mention—mandatory reading for 5-star Generals. The problem: most are dyslexic, and therefore: Collateralized wars by executing poor men, and forfeiting their lives.

When you brought-up Bertrand, it immediately triggered in my mind an old dog-eared copy of Aldous Huxley's Brave New World, published by Granada, and it's single endorsement on the back cover written in large capital red letters: 'It is all too likely to come true' ~ Bertrand Russell.

In Brave New World, Aldous Huxley [in 1932!] warned of a future in which people would come to love the technologies that took away their capacity to think, that destoyed their critical faculties and deprived them of their freedom, maturity and history. Depicted a future society in thrall to science and regulated by sophisticated methods of social control.

Connecting the dots .. here Palooka!

While Russell wrote a great deal on ethical subject matters, he did not believe that the subject belonged to philosophy or that when he wrote on ethics that he did so in his capacity as a philosopher. He believed that ethical considerations are not only meaningful, but that they are a vital subject matter for civil discourse. Indeed, though Russell was often characterised as the patron saint of rationality, he agreed with Hume, who said that reason ought to be subordinate to ethical considerations.

One of the central themes of Russell is that the world consists of logically independent facts, a plurality of facts, and that our knowledge depends on the data of our direct experience of them. In his later life, Russell came to doubt aspects of logic, though he continued to believe that the process of philosophy ought to consist of breaking things down into their simplest components, even though we might not ever fully arrive at an ultimate atomic fact.

Aargh, a complex man (aren't we all!), wrestled with questions??? his whole life: the existence of God—not being foremost among them, back and forth, fuelled in no small part by his keen interest in Religious ideas, ironically, perhaps to disprove them — "I became convinced that there is no life after death, but I still believed in God." — aargh

OK, back to Huxley now: came increasingly to believe that the key to solving the world's problems lay in changing the individual through mystical enlightenment — ahhh!

I like-wise could go-on interminably, but alas (to y'alls relief), getting skinnier, I'll finish up with an endorsement from The Observer ~ 'A brilliant tour de force, Brave New World may be read as a grave warning of the pitfalls that await uncontrolled scientific advance. Full of barbed wit and malice-spiced frankness, Brave New World is one of the most urgent appeals for a reconciliation of science with religion that our age has known.'

Anonymous said...

freeacre,

Yes, the whole gov't regulation system seems to be geared to making it difficult, if not impossible, to do anything, even on a small scale such as yours or the food bank's, that might negatively impact what the gov't supports.

And yet, when I was working for the USDA they decided they wouldn't inspect meat plants that hadn't had earlier problems. Now, quit screaming and think of how many inspectors we no longer have to pay for. :-)

Or maybe they were kept on the payroll to harass little operations like yours and the Polyface Farms that MIchael Pollan talks about.

I frankly don't know what to do about it. At USDA, I was working on school meal regs. We tried to get them modified to include more healthful foods, but were stymied by the meat and dairy industries' clout. (The school meal programs were supposed to pay for themselves, so they had to take all of that surplus cheese and hamburger in order to balance their budgets. Now many are being privatized to fast food franchises. Am I glad I'm no longer involved with it!)

And the farm regs work against family farms and give tons of money to the agribusinesses that don't need it. Our irrigation (CA Central Valley) is greatly subsidized by the gov't so that they grow things here that take more water than is naturally available -- dairies, for instance -- do you have any idea how much water is used by these humungous dairies? And we don't even need that much milk -- or hamburger.

I shouldn't have gotten started, and I take back an earlier comment -- I can't rant half as good as you can.

And Baz, I think questioning is what keeps you alive. And probably the reason Russell lived to 97. I think something important dies when you stop questioning. You may still be going thru the motions of living, but the zest is gone. I'll look for Russell's other books -- after I finish the ones on their way from amazon.

Caroline

freeacre said...

Wanna read a good essay? Joe Baggeant has done it again - The White Underclass. Link from our home page...

RAS said...

NPR did a story the other day on the 'horror' of being debt-free. Um, excuse me?

There was a bit of a victory here with small producers in Alabama. It's not legal to sell homebaked good and certain home-canned good (jams, jellies, pickles, and relishes) at farmers markets. They mostly legalized what was already going on. No one wanted to throw half the grannies in 'Bama in jail. You're supposed to label them as 'not made in a licensed kitchen' but I doubt many are doing it.

Anonymous said...

Osiyo, my brothers and sisters, its been a few since i''ve gotten the call to say take the stick at the sacred fire.
My grief for you Murph, the passing of a parent is one of those turning points in life i guess, that means at least to this one that i wish i had a chance to talk to them one more time to tell them how much i love them and to show the appreciation that was taken for granted while they were here.
i would of loved to meet your mother and father also. aho

Freeacre, your rants bring out the goodness our little?, band of outlaws (and we are outlaws as being perfectly able to live without the stupid ass laws that most people seem to be in love with are we not?) express here in regard to how life can be lived if only a smidgen
of awareness is applied to lives endless challenges.

great welcomes to the ones that have joined lately to the fire and have chosen to speak their hearts and minds, its good and of great comfort to see our numbers growing, for our voices are the voices of the future and the world that is emerging out of the destruction of our mother earth, which in reality is out actual mother, both in material bounty and the instillational wonder of our own nature in the observation of our relations that live among us.

Tsalagi, the cherokees speak of the return of the ancestors in the skins of not only the whites and bringing with them the hearts that are so connected with the creator that they will be recognized by each other and there you have it i think.

i myself having blood so thin that it has caused me since learning that my grandmother was only one quarter pure of why this happened, and now it has been revealed, the integration of the clan body is growing and little bands of caring brothers and sisters are popping up all over the world regardless of color of eyes.
our hearts are strong and our children seemingly sucked in by the lure of death and olddies are merely playing with the available games they are surrounded with.
these nasties will and are withering as the spirit moves. love will not be silenced, its is the most powerful force in the universe and the ignorance that says otherwise sells death at a reasonable price.

there is so much new energy moving at the fire, what a blessing we have become unto ourselfs,

let me see, o yeah the reunion on the river of love was a tremendous something, and age really jerked with about half a zillion brats running all over the place, and you would say who in the fuck had all those offspring and a sweet voice would drag you aside and would say ''well you did your share sweetie and leave a big slurpy kiss on your ear. fuck what a weekend, there were more acid flashbacks then a politicians promise. man almost everyone there along with their desendents were part of the sixties and the smoke looked a lot like St.Helens to prove it.

and here there is mention of Aldus Huckley,Aismov,Orwell, man, height-ashbury and the fillmore, anyone experience the fillmore?, the golden gate park where the trees were occupied with stoned out hippies, greatful dead playing off an old flat bed truck in the pan handle,,,,,, and pretty girls spreading flowers among the pigs, holy shit, did that shit really happen, i say bring on the flash backs.

we as parents gave without a second thought the same lsd that we were taking and the kids riding on your backs while you were fucking, aw hell it was a hippie thing after all.
best served as memories, i guess/

new plan m&p, i think after harvest,

to all of you, thanks for being here, its the sweetest place on the net and i love you all.
aho
montana freeman

Anonymous said...

Wise words brother,

The King was on Belgian TV news tonight talking about the financial crisis. My Nederlands is not for 100% but distilling it down to the essentials he said that what is going on has no connection with the real economy and there has to be more responsibility / accountability. I really don’t know what to make of it. It seemed like a Pontius Pilot hand washing exercise to me so maybe the end of days are coming over the horizon, maybe.

Adanvdo (SATS)

Baz said...

Hey Montana, aww what a sweetie—and here I was thinking you were some mean-ass mutha! Knew you would jump-out from behind a bush—eventually, revealing yourself. Missed your Injun-ness. Great pic of the deer—good spotting. They stand perfectly still like that blending-in with their surroundings hoping to be invisible, I know you know this already—and also you were on the path to the deer!
Sounds like you had a great re-union, with or without the frog-licking .. never tried that! Ignore the picture -> It's not me. I'll replace it with something when I think of what to ..

freeacre, I know you don't really mean it—goin' back a-bit now, personally am sorta stuck on wanting to kick their ass—and further back, probably echoing my words—Off with their .. but, been meditating on .. the Art of assassination, and come to the realization—There is no head to cut off—it's a Conglomerate, which includes Colonels, and Senators. All supported by us—albeit knowingly or unknowingly, either/or—It is human weakness—You can't kill that with a gun.

Hey, read the essay (Joe Baggeant) you recommended—contemplating writing a book called—Pig-Hunting with Allah—What do you think? Catchy name! Might have to wear Kevlar for awhile.

Rockpicker—Wanted to say earlier, but got side-tracked .. man, your poetry is POWERFULL, and should be on the wall (large), in the inner-sanctum of the United Nations Organization for all the goddamn leaders of the world to view before they make their next world-altering decision—and when I am President, I'll make it so!

Ah .. Well—I can dream, can't I? If you aim for the moon, you'll land among the stars .. or Utah.

Anonymous said...

I just got a solicitation from Al Gore asking for money to elect more Dem's so the R's don't take Congress back in the next election. (No, I'm not a registered Dem.) I intend to answer it on the back of one of the pages they sent. I plan to close with, "A plague on both your houses." What do you think?
Any other suggestions?

Caroline

murph said...

Caroline,

I have a bunch of more graphic phrases Freeacre and I use in such circumstances. 'Eat shit and die' comes to the fore.

freeacre said...

lol... all this good humor helps to cope with these sudden days of HEAT. Good God! Can't take the high 90's in the Pacific Northwest. Aaargh. And a friend of Murph's brought home 1,400 pounds of Mt. Rainier cherries (had a relative with an excess) and gave us about 200 lbs. We distributed them to as many people as possible, but still had to process about 40 lbs. ourselves. Good grief. Been canning, dehydrating, and freezing for two days. We had the Grange potluck tonight, so I brought a fruit salad. The Grange voted to let me organize a Grange Vegetable Gardeners Club and we can use the Grange Hall for a meeting place. This will be a club to encourage backyard food production, so it will include chickens and rabbits, etc,. as well. We're gaining on it...
aho

Baz said...

Not really me ->

Ah, Caroline .. sorry—couldn't resist—my fault, your mistake, stating the obvious—a horse's head!—his .. a month old, with a note attached—something to the effect of, 'an offer I couldn't refuse ..', well, you asked .. probably too unrealistic anyway .. just promoting discourse .. in the name of science, and religion.

Anonymous said...

From Belgium

Baz I wondered if this was the conglomerate being of which you earlier spoke?

http://www.upi.com/topic/Snakes/photos/pg-1/

Btw sure you didn’t mean Pig hunting with Jehovah?

Just curious but you ain’t by any chance a reincarnation of Bette Davis? It was just a passing thought.

Baz said...

FB, yeah—close .. on the way, but more like this:

http://www.freewebs.com/dragonzz/hydra(A.gif

Hydras come from greek mythology. The hydra is said to have seven to nine heads and everytime you cut one head off, two more grow in its place. Hercules defeated a hydra by figuring out that when you burn the stub of its neck, no more heads will grow.

Considered momentarily, the title: Pig-Hunting with Mohammed, but summarily dismissed it, as it is too common a name, among other considerations. And anyway, wasn't being entirely serious—however, I was some-what inspired by the title of Baggeant's book—Deer Hunting with Jesus, but I might have to shelve this idea for awhile yet, alas, as I have too many other more-pressing 'doomer' projects on the boil.

Bette Davis? Noted for her willingness to play unsympathetic characters, for her forceful and intense style, gained a reputation who could be highly combative. Her forthright manner, clipped vocal style and ubiquitous public persona which has often been imitated and satirized. Her career went through several periods of eclipse, and she admitted that her success had often been at the expense of her personal relationships.

"Never not dare to hang yourself. That's the only way you grow in your profession. You must continually attempt things that you think are beyond you, or you get into a complete rut."

Anonymous said...

From Belgium

Baz, it looks like that Bette Davis ref was a Maseratti as it went by. Here is what it was about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-KGiwGn1d8

"Never not dare to hang yourself. That's the only way you grow in your profession.

I actually saw this bit of repartee happen when I worked for ICI:
One boss to another bosses lab guy “If you worked for me your feet wouldn’t touch the ground”
Lab guy “Too right, I would hang myself”.

rockpicker said...

Clipped this from Project Camelot just now.

" 21 July 2009 - update 2

• On today's Whistleblower Radio (the Camelot radio show) we featured Jane Bürgermeister with four other guests: Dr Rebecca Carley, Rebecca Campbell, Elizabeth Book and JoAnne Cremer. A fifth contributor called in, Burk Elder Hale - who can be contacted through his website here.

Elder reported that he had been personally told by a senior biochemist at a leading pharmaceutical company [name of company provided but withheld here to protect the source] that:

"...an aerosoled precursor has been put into the air and almost everyone has breathed it into their lungs. The biochemist states that the vaccines to be administered in the Fall will be ACTIVATED when the constituents come in contact with the aerosoled precursor in the body and will cause a rapid spread of the H1N1 Influenza A virus.
This biochemist is very upset about the matter, to say the least, and is a very reliable source that needs our utmost protection."

We had been told something very similar by our insider source Henry Deacon, who informed us just a few days ago that chemtrails were now frequently being sprayed at 3-5 am (in the very early morning) with the specific intention to compromise the immune system.

We believe this information is credible and urgently requires further investigation.

Back to the radio show. All the guests except Jane had to suffer appalling audio interference on their phone lines. Some details were very hard to hear. A recording of the show (in case it is any better) will be posted here. These are the details of the guests, all of whom are doing important work:

Jane Bürgermeister : legal action against vaccine manufacturers.

Dr Rebecca Carley : research about the harmful effects of vaccines and Tamiflu, strongly recommending colloidal silver as an antiviral.

Rebecca Campbell : research on the financial connections between 'Big Pharma' and government and other institutions ["Follow the Money" - as in 9/11].

Elizabeth Book : Florida-based grassroots political activist.

JoAnne Cremer : originator of a large and rapidly growing Facebook Group entitled END FORCED VACCINATIONS."

Anybody out there comment on nano silver?

Anonymous said...

From Belgium

Not from me Rp, I am too long out of the chemical loop now and bio chemistry was never my field anyway. It is true though that many finely divided metals can act as catalysts for good or bad.

rockpicker said...

And the clouds on the horizon just get darker and darker...

http://solari.com/blog/?p=3532

Baz said...

Alright—don't really like to hog (Razorback) the air-waves, but .. it's bucketing down, out there—BS excuse! And not-many commenting a-lot, anyways, and this is my favorite site, after-all—and I moved to the country, where no-one can hear you scream ..

FB, alas—probably should explain something 2U about 'dooming'—Getting away from 'it all', kinda means alot that it implies. Now apart from having to leave (I won't go into too much detail—could fill a book.) a great deal behind—and I emphasise, considerable—including Maseratti's or even the ability to view-one on youtube. Still, all is not lost—and once I moved past the stage of wanting to hang—and accepted myself, life—a precious gift 'Thou shalt not kill'—even unto thy self—took on new meaning. Ah—shit, getting long-winded .. again!

The Service can teach a person many things: some even useful for civilian-life—if you let it. One of the things I learnt was how to live, without a job—and without being dependent on utility companies—I sit here typing on my old laptop—powered by 6-volt batteries, wired in series, charged by a small solar-panel which cost less than some people spend a month giving their chosen Utility Company! (Don't believe all the alt-BS-hype.) We're brain-washed with BS about how so-many things can't be done—that's because they don't want you to do it! Now if only people showed some initiative .. and tried.

OK—long-winded explanation on why I can't watch internet videos. Way-out in these mountainous hills where I've elected to live, away from the maddening-crowds, I'm at the end of the line (dial-up, the slowest in the world, I'm told), but what-else do you need?—apart from a good Opossum stew with garlic, cooked on a big-ole Irish woodstove—and Rosé-moonshine to wash it down—all grown yourself!

Anonymous said...

From Belgium

Baz, in that case I am going to have to explain the vid to you. It was the closing scene from the 1942 film Now Voyager where Bette Davis walks out onto the balcony at night and says “Oh Jerry, don’t ask for the moon – we have the stars”. It kinda fitted in with the end of your 3.19 comment.

I knew you were away from it all but I didn’t realise you were that away. I am interested to know how you are living, do you have a cabin or are you tenting or tenting in a cave or what? Serious now, maybe you could do a guest post for the Murphs’ on some aspect of survival living since you are actually doing it whilst we are only talking about it.

rockpicker said...

Hey, was just reading about that 7.8 off the west coast of the south island last week. strongest quake in eighty years. USGS says it was in soft rocks, and that was responsible for the relatively mild 'rolling' temblor. They report the south island moved 12 inches closer to Australia due to the event.

Baz, tell us more!

freeacre said...

Rockpicker, that was a very sobering message from Catherine Austin Fitz on her solari site. Plus. the other one on Camelot. If you spring for the ten bucks (well worth it) and get the latest ALTA report from Half Past Human, you'll probably have to take the day off and just stare at the horizon. Then come home a make a pie.
I find myself wondering seriously if we will see the new year,,, or maybe we'll be celebrating Thanksgiving somewhere on an astral plane. Things are getting really strange.
aho

murph said...

Baz,

As Belgium commented, I didn't realize you were so far out in the wild. Interesting how you keep an interenet connection working.

As is true with any technology use, the complexity also goes up and the dependency upon infrastructure to keep the technology going. In your circumstance, you are dependent on complex battery and solar panel infrastructure, let alone lap top complexity. ANY breakdown in the system will demand a return to the infrastructure to fix it.

Which brings us to the topic of time projection. How long can this infrastructure underpinning all the technological stuff can/will continue to operate? I reckon that is what being a doomer is about, speculation about when it all comes tumbling down.

While my knowledge of New Zealand is sketchy, it would appear to me that you are in an almost ideal location for what you are doing. No harsh extremes in weather, plentiful game, etc. Not many places like that left on this old earth. I congratulate you on finding a way to "Way-out in these mountainous hills where I've elected to live, away from the maddening-crowds", and as I just commented, not many places left to do that.

Here in the U.S. of A. there is a tremendous amount of wilderness land, but little of it would support that type of living. Most of Nevada comes immediately to mind, or the Rocky Mountains. Not only has a great deal of the game that one could live off been nearly exterminated, but the weather conditions are much harsher. And, if too many people decided to do the same kind of trip, survival off the land would become even more difficult. If I had been 40 years younger, I speculate that I would have tried it again too. But, due to the age factor, we opted for small community living. I think we are soon to find out how these alternatives work out in the end.

Baz said...

♬—Tell me more .. tell me more, like does he have a car?—♫ Ah, and here I was trying to blend in—hah. No, I'm not an alcaholik officer .. I just have 20 gallons to get through!

Murph, 'Tis I who congratulate you! 1st—off, the injun in me was attracted to You and Freeacre's site by the catchy name and sub-heading: drums .. tribe .. truth .. work to be done, freedom, anarchism, .. I could appreciate what you both were up to. Farming rabbits! intrigued me, and inspired me. I'm not a farmer, but yes, as I get older—as any smart doomer does, invariably considers seriously such stuff. One of my projects is fencing—haven't decided yet, maybe sheep? Still intend to hunt well into my hundreds!

Probably far-out in other ways also than just wild, e.g.—infrastructure: sounds like: Big-brother surveillance in the dark—incarceration! Where some people only see cheese, I smell a rat! Paranoia is merely reality, on a finer scale! And yes, technology breakdown—Have already installed back-up systems, for back-up systems!—hah. Now where did I leave that foothold trap—aargh!

Freeacre, relax—there'll still be work to do on other astral planes!

Rockpicker, You already know more than I do! If I want to know what's happening in NZ, I come here! If NZ gets any closer to Australia, I'll have to seriously consider moving to Antarctica! I hear they have nice fat seals there! Don't care much for vegetables anyway!

FB, last but not least! Have you not been paying attention? What do you think I have been raving about all this time? Huh?—Do you think I just crawled out from beneath a rock, or somethin'! Farrah in the tent was merely metaphorical .. you didn't seriously think .. surely, not? In a little while, we will all soon, be survivors.

RAS said...

Hey guys,
I caught part of the evening news on one of the networks at work last night and I stopped in my tracks when this segment about the swine flu vaccine came on. First they talked about the 'clinical trials' which are a joke, and then said that people may need TWO shots. But then they said they right now it looks like they will only have 80 million doses of the vaccing and that the manufacturers are seeking permission to put in an unlicesned, mostly untrialed chemical that boosts the immune response so that they could stretch the vaccine out further.

I mean...damn. This was on the evening news, not a tinfoil site! I've never had any intention of taking this thing -think God/Goddess/Great Spirit/my own common sense.

rockpicker said...

Ras, et al;

Here's a link to an article by David Icke. Whatever you may think of his new world order conspiracy theories, his info is good, (imo), concerning the swine flu pandemic and vaccines.

http://www.davidicke.com/content/view/25191

I read on another site that refusing to be vaccinated in the US can bring a $250,000 fine and one year incarceration.

Elsewhere it's been suggested that to fight this effectively, those of us who plan not to accept the shots must act in unison, (strength in numbers, etc.). So, what WILL we do? Oldensoul says if we resist, the ptb will just arrest us and give us the shots anyway. It's beginning to look like a put-your-money-where-your-mouth-is moment quickly approaching.

I've heard health professionals claim WHO can't produce enough vaccine to be concerned about forced vaccinations this fall. Yet others claim clinical tests are to begin in several major US cities by Aug. 1, and that plenty of untested, unsafe vaccine will be available by Oct.

A guy who sells nanosilver health products said on Project Camelot radio last week that an aerosoled catalyst has been sprayed into our air supply and we have all been exposed. He said it will combine with the flu virus in the lungs and make it lethal. Many are saying the virus will be spread via the vaccines.

rockpicker said...

Did a google search for prophecies about the children disappearing, and came on this:

http://www.rexresearch.com/prophist/phf4mary.htm

Anonymous said...

From Belgium

If the catalyst and the virus make a deadly combination then what is the point of the vaccines, good or bad?

rockpicker said...

Belgium,

As I understand it, the virus that's spreading on its own is not 'virile' enough to cause the kind of depopulation event the PTB are looking for. The vaccines have been engineered using dna from four strains of flu and forced immunizations, (innoculations), will ensure maximum mortality. That's what Burgermeister alleges. The claim is that many who get immunized will not die off instantly, but rather be debilitated with chronic disease and die off slowly, so as not to scare off the majority from accepting the vaccine.

Anonymous said...

From Belgium

Rp,
Just read David Icke's piece.

rockpicker said...

Belgium; I'm reading an article by Jane Burgermeister that explains what she believes to be the current state of affairs concerning the flu business. Here's the link;

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=14475

shall we carry this forward to the new post?