Tuesday, August 18, 2009

Some pickings from the garden

Brother Earth, Sister Moon
A guest post by Baz, from New Zealand

We depart today from our usual format. Baz has kindly responded for my call for someone out there to fill in for me, as I have temporarily run out of ideas for a post, and the number of comments on the last one has gotten somewhat unwieldy.

Now, for the newbies to this site, we run a sort of cyber campfire, loosely based on the sacred circle or native American campfires that have been such a powerful process for communication and healing proven through time. We imagine that we have a talking stick. When a person takes the stick, he or she is listened to with respect and little evaluation. Then the stick is passed and the next person is extended the same attention and courtesy. None of us has the whole truth. But each of us has our own part of it. And, together, we can combine our perspectives and perhaps be able to synthesize a wiser overall stance. Personally, I have blurted out my own truth, then heard someone else’s perspective, and suddenly changed my mind about whatever it was that I had been thinking. I have found that it is much easier to be flexible in thought when it is of your own making, not in response to someone trying to change your mind.
Over the years ( I was a member of a sacred drumming circle for eight years in Tahoe), I have come to know and respect the supportive and healing aspects of this form of council, and have been amazed that much of the same benefits have been experienced here in cyber-space.

So, one of the things that is different at our site from most others, is that the more or less weekly post is not the most important aspect of the site. It is the impetus for the rest of the conversation in the comments section. Lately, the conversation seems to be very introspective on the part of the tribe. Watching and living in this train wreck of a culture can be exhausting. Sometimes we hit the wall. Sometimes we need a break, Sometimes we celebrate victories. Sometimes we just have to laugh. Sometimes we cry.

Survival Acres just wrote an explanation of why he is not posting anymore. I can understand his frustration. He is right – we can’t change the world with just blogging. But, on the other hand, we seem to be able to support each other and the very real and tangible changes we are living day to day. I find this effort inspiring and helpful. I don’t know how long it will last. One big electro-magnetic pulse from a solar flare or from a nuclear devise, or government interference, or act of war or whatever could take us out at any time. And, if it does, I will be happy that we have at least had this time together to create the sense of belonging and safety that our campfire has established. Anyway, I am blabbing on…

First, we’d like to share some of our progress this week in pictures. Then, we hand the stick to Baz. He is a somewhat new member of our tribe who brings a unique “Wild Man” element to the circle, as he lives in the wilds of New Zealand in rather primitive, or should I say “natural” conditions. Anyway, thank you, Baz, for responding to my request for some help here.
Pictures of our garden produce

Peruvian potatoes from 12 plants

garden pickings

Post collapse meal

Blueberry crisp

Ok, on to the post from Baz –
For the 1 who believes not only night-vision is a possibility .. but an instinct reality .. that yes, indeed, we can be like the animals, for in truth, is all we are, and all we'll ever be — now, more than ever, need to cultivate this lost ability — to see in the dark — for whatever it's worth, pilgrim :

Civilization is paralysis ~ Paul Gauguin

Spiritual food :— There is nothing spiritual about obtaining your food wrapped in cellophane from a Supermarket, purchasing food that comes all the way from China, or Amerika. Even I most spiritual of food-seekers have sucumbed to this most vile of consumerist temptations, on occasion—aargh, and repented immediately forthwith afterward with much flagellation and vexation of recognition of damage to soul.

No ~ never-the-less, This is truly how I feel about the aforementioned. The idealistic principle I hold in my minds-eye, so to speak, to which I aspire. Toward which I aim, a target. Without goals we can wander/wonder aimlessly, a rudderless ship, tossed—lost in a vast ocean directionless, without compass and bearing, and without a clue?

You are what you eat ~ Socrates? [Tell me what you eat and I will tell you what you are].

"Tell me what you want, what you really really want?" ~ Spice girls

I liked what Caroline said, baz, it's learning new things that keep you engaged in life's processes, or words to that affect. I concur (hah, I just wanted to say that). Nothing new about shopping in FoodMart, week after mind-numbing week. OK, so you can stick a finger in your neighbors ribs, in the produce section and say, "Give me all your carrots." Yes, I did it!

I like to kill two birds with one stone, so to speak. Obtaining food to nourish the body, and cohabitating/communing with nature—forest/animal spirit, simultaneously. And it is a very spiritual matter taking the life-force of another creature—you partake of the essence of that creature, and in the process it becomes you. Whatever the forest creature is, you choose. Even fish or eel. They all have their own unique spiritual taste. Truly the garden, of 'earthly delights'. Why wait? Heaven/Nirvana or whatever is truly on earth! F#c% the naysayers—whoever and whatever, they are. F#c%en aliens from Uranus, down to steal our souls.

I have a saying—My own: 'Waste no part of the animal.'—even fish head, or pig head. Eyes are the nicest part of fish. White people, I have noticed do not know this—or even significance or benefit of eating them. Buddhist koan: 'Can a fish see the ocean?'. Where others might discard, I seek to respect the life which sustains and gives me life—no waste. It is my attitude, and will visibly cringe if I am with someone, if he says, "leave it", for whatever reason. It is not my way. I prefer to hunt alone for this reason. Not everyone has this reverence for life and death. Properly understood—same thing.

Hunger, great spiritual teacher: Sharpens the senses and instinct, and hones the spirit. After days, one becomes one with all of nature: life—death, all one country. No difference. Spirit and body become one, for really they are. No need for distinction . It is only our modern consumer lifestyle which seperates the one from the other, for money—what else? And really bad health—yours. More money—yours. Who else's?— just not for you—hahaha

No entertainment, or superfluous distraction. Meaning of life become crystal-clear. Experience illuminates abundantly obvious what is useless mumbo-jumbo superstition, regardless of religion and culture and what is necessary .. for life. That's all. The rest is extraneous horsesh*t and really only good for growing food which doesn't move. Prey tale, it ain't you.

There is nothing more spiritual under heaven on earth than this : this is the path my ancestors walked — the Irish, and the path I walk, to Kilkenny :—)
blarney, which means Top'of'the'mornin'to~yah!

Pictures from Baz and latest addition to his diet

cooking the catch


murph said...


On previous post you mentioned that something changed with the comment section. Hope it is straightened out. We are experiencing nothing out of the ordinary at this time.

Anonymous said...

Lookin' good! =^D

~ Larissa

Hotspringswizard said...

Murph, upon subsequent posting here, the comment section is back to normal for me. Regarding the discussion ( Murph or Freeacre? ) in this entry about the purpose of your cyber campfire, it all sounds like a great idea and practice to me :-)In reference to John at survival acres, I've been waiting for his explanation of his wish to stop blogging. I purchased a one year, four person food package from hime some time ago, and at that time I shared some brief back and forth e-mails with him. I suggested to him then that the people appreciating his message were relatively quite few in comparison to the overall population, and that the momentum of dire trends to my mind would not be stopped by the realization of the grave folly of our ways by a very small percentage of the populace. People want to maintain business as usual practices, the status quo, even as this crazy train heads for the cliffs ahead. Hopefully he will he more content putting his efforts into localized endeavors which can definitely reap satisfying rewards towards coping with the coming storm of troubles. I have not read this recent post from him yet, having just learned of it here.

Hotspringswizard said...

I just read John's most recent entry, and I agree with his thoughts. I also however feel that ( regarding blogging ), there are valuable benfits gained through the interaction of thoughts/ideas as practiced here at Freeacre/Murphs Trout Clan Campfire ( and like minded websites ). Something akin to the idea Zoner brought up about the less visible but none-the-less worthy benifits people derive from the Burning Man gathering. I hope in John's continueing journey he finds himself able to let go of some of his pent up angst about " The damned human race " as Mark Twain spoke of in his book of the same name. In my few e-mails to John I tried to express to him that there are things we just cannot change, and thats frustrating, but there is still a wonderful world of beautiful nature ( especially where he lives )and inspiring human relationships available to us to lift our spirits and give us meaning and purpose. I understand and feel John's anger about the ways of man, but there is another way he can proceed, another more satisfying path he can choose :-)

freeacre said...

Baz,that's some pig, alright! Cooking it all at once like that in the skin I imagine keeps in the juices? Have you ever tried burying it on top of hot coals like the Hawaiians do?
I sympathize with you on the killing and eating of your own food, rather than relying on the commercial food industry, which is an abomination against life. Commercial feed lots are nothing more than concentration camps for animals. The genetically engineered corn would be enough to kill them if they ate that shit much longer than they do, and the drugs and hormones that they jam them up with are bad for all of us in the food chain. I have not given it up totally because there is something about a bacon, lettuce, and tomato sandwich that I can't manage to give up, but I'm working on it. Going vegan is probably going to be right for a lot of us, but in the wild, at least, I think one should be grateful for whatever shows up. Almost everything eats something that is alive, even if they are vegetables and fruit. So, we should be grateful for it all and honor whatever it is that we eat. I can't help but imagine, however, Darth and his former Bush Administration cohorts eating carrion or pond slime in their next life. After blowing the present human incarnation, it would not surprise me if they became the hyenas or bottom feeders that they've been acting like...just a thought.

freeacre said...

... I think I better go to my newly "re-organized" bank and cash my social security check while I still can. LATOC has a new page up - looking mighty grim in the banking, employment, and real estate sectors. Load 'em up and circle the wagons.

Anonymous said...

From Belgium

There is no disrespect to our new friends intended but I think it is appropriate to give Baz some recognition for the post he has put up and not to go blithely on with the last one as though nothing happened in between.

Respect for your lifestyle Baz, I wish I had the wherewithal to make a part of what you are doing happen for me. China now is a classic example of how mass populations are moving from the country to the cities and for what? What is the plus side of the equation for them? At least in part, I think, a benefit for those who are driving the migration is that the country ways will be lost in record time and a society will result that is solely dependant on their providers. I must admit that I was born a townie and now live in the semi open ‘burbs. The older I get the more I wish I had been born into more country ways and didn’t have to rationalise the life, death and rebirth part of nature of which mf spoke in the previous post. It seems the more civilised we get the fewer wild boars there are scampering about behind the supermarkets, around here leastways so even in the half country the town ways hold the trump cards. I noticed in the picture you put up that you use or are at least holding a crossbow. Murph and I had a conversation about such things about a year or so ago and I bowed to his expertise when he said that bows were quieter in their use but they were less accurate than a gun (rifle). Is the bow your preferred weapon?

Recently I have been involved in other things and have been trying to keep up with the comments on the last post but it seemed that every time I read a bunch, a similar number was added at the end which I can only consider a success for the blog.

Btw Murph / Freeacre, I have been toying with an idea for a post but unlike other times I don’t know where this one is going to. I guess it will be at least a week before I sort my brains out.

Aho – the talking stick is passed.

Zoner said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

From Belgium

Fa, Yes we are what we eat. Ever since I saw those videos on the Real Food Channel I have been feeling guilty over what I eat and trying with only limited success to seriously reduce my meat consumption. I have made some veggie paellas and risottos which are not three bad.

The veggie garden was a smash flop this year. The two main reasons I can identify are that there is just too much shade from the nearby established trees (40 – 50 footers) and lack of attention on my part due to this low level asthma which has been dragging on and rears its head when I get involved in serious work; that and the slugs which I also didn’t pay attention to. Maybe the shadow will not be such a problem for winter things like sprouts for example. I can only give it a try.

Circling the wagons; the GEAB people have been saying for two years now that if the root cause of the financial problem was not addressed that late summer 09 would be the time when everything would fall into the water.

Now Aho.

Pangolin said...

Dammit Baz, that's good leather you're roasting not to mention the excellent qualities of boar bristles as brush material. My city-bred eyes see that as a huge bonus and not the abundance of pig raw material that I know exists in the hills. Crafty bastards usually in these parts and hard to get a shot at; from stories I've been told.

Here in the land of Eden (bragging ;P ) I have been going on fig and grape rides. Taking detours to check on the wilding fig trees and alley fence grape abundance. I have to be careful or I'll simply sit and read and poke grapes in my face until I get the trots. Figs require a bit more work. Plums are hidden in a few secret places too.

Even if located in the urban core it might be a good time to look at rooting some grape, fig, quince, apple or whatever and moving them to spots where they might to better. That reminds me that I have to put the Indian blood peach pits in the fridge for a few weeks.

As long as there's weeds growing make them the weeds that you like.

Blogging bin berry, berry good to me. Hep mi fit the wild thoughts into the world. Tell me that there be solutions as well as pain.

'Nuff said.

murph said...


Sorry to hear the veggie garden went down the tubes. Here it is middle of August and we have had 3 consecutive nights of frost. Root crops not hurt, but if not protected, squash, beans, and some other goodies killed or crippled a bit. We were throwing frost blankets on those 3 nights. Plant leaves not covered died violent and ugly deaths, their blackened corpses hovering over the squash plants. Got down to 24 degrees one of them. Wonder how many other people were severely wiped out on garden produce. Ain't easy in this neck of the woods.

Anonymous said...

baz.... not to intentionally make you cringe, particularly so soon after being forwarned. but when it comes to certain parts... well, i'm the other side of the same coin i guess. i be the one that makes you cringe and you be the one that makes me cringe. puke even. like the two you mentioned. in the front that had shown the way. and the two not mentioned. bringing up the rear on the other end.

perhaps what would otherwise be essense filled delicacies overflowing with the stuff of lost vision quests remain lost to me own whiteness shortcomings. but i sorta autonomically go into this twisting up like a pretzel and end up with me toes in me nose. so thats when i employ the concept of sharing with the creatures who demonstrate to be more charged with the role of tansforming carion into the stuff from which new life springs. perhaps its just a convenient justification. but it seems to make sense. me going all twisted up over it and all. people don't seem to mind the twisting up part but pukin in public's apparently socially unacceptable.

FA... speaking of eating, sure would like to get your receipe for that blueberry crunch. yum. has that got a crust in the bottom? as in cobbler with a crunch? i got em coming out me ears and the freezer is overflowin.

pan... :-)

B... dems da best kind dat don't know where der goin. garrison keillor calls such pen 'n paper trips the process of self-discovery. havin taken a trip or two i'm inclined to agree with him.

and oh ya, everybody... i jumped over to SA to read what ya been crowin about and everything's GONE. POOFF. 'cept the oct, 05 stuff. am i on the wrong page again? help me, help me. somebody get me otta this bag.

wv... ratify... p

rockpicker said...


Saturday and Sunday nights were cold here, but we missed out on hard frost. Only a few spots on exposed leaves. We are feeling very grateful, as we got things planted late and nights have been so unusually cool this summer as to retard growth. Our squash is just now setting fruit. Peppers are flowering. Tomatillas flowering and setting fruit. If we get a killer now, it will pretty much all have been for naught. Last night was warm and nice.

Isn't Mars bright?

wood smoke lifts
a rich scent of fat
spluttering on coals
into our swelling circle.
Mouths water. Eyes
close, to see. And hearts
open like pine cones
after fire, dropping seeds.

Hotspringswizard said...

" There is no disrespect to our new friends intended but I think it is appropriate to give Baz some recognition for the post he has put up and not to go blithely on with the last one as though nothing happened in between. "

" Blogging bin berry, berry good to me. Hep mi fit the wild thoughts into the world. Tell me that there be solutions as well as pain. "

Oh boy, time to move on. Good luck Murph and Freeacre :-)

freeacre said...

Hotspringswizard - your input is valued here, and you are always welcome. You hafta figure that in a circle of several people, one or two things might be said that don't sit right. Doesn't mean that you leave town, does it? Think of it as a challenge for developing the skills of creating sustainable community.

Pangolin said...

Buddha touched the earth.

I'm using long form.

freeacre said...

I've been working on getting you that blueberry crisp recipe, p. I often don't follow recipes or they are a combination of things. Basically, for a crunch, you start with a ratio of 3 parts fruit to 1 part crunch. There is no bottom crust.
I think I started with 5 cups of blueberries with one cup of sugar. I'm pretty sure that I thickened it with some quick cooking tapioca.
The topping can be made by cutting butter into flour, sugar, salt and nutmeg. But, I cut down on the flour and add old-fashioned oatmeal to make it more substantial. Sorry I don't have more precise directions. I guess that's why I hardly ever make the same thing twice. But, with those ingredients, however you combine them is going to be good.

Pangolin said...

I just drop blueberries into Dutch Baby pancakes. So yummy and easy.


I'm not the frapping buddha, I'm just shaped like one.

Anonymous said...

thx fa... i'll give it a whirl. you cook like my mamma. she just combined intuition with experience and the kitchen sink to come up with end results. that was her receipe. always yummy too. if i tried to get details it would be, well... a little of this and a little of that.

how much is a little flour ma? 'well, you know, a little. just throw some in there. and don't forget the butter.'

her and julia and butter! which reminds me, julie/julia... great flick. merly streep channeled julia to a T. almost as good as what his face did with ray charles. still in theaters but watch for it on netflix later on.

pan... the shape? the pancake look? but yup, yum.

hsw... we won't be the same w/o u. but we'll do the best we can and have as much fun as we can w/o your presence if you feel u need to move on. wish u the very best on your journey. even though i suspect many find my ramblings to be... well, odd to say the least, i've found this space to be a rare comfort midst an ever growing unsafe world laying down blood in its tracks. a place where one can say their say. even if another say nay its generally done without shame and personal attack. a safe place to share what can often be differing view points.

foutunately, differing viewpoints come with the program that is life. unfortunately few recognize this as fortunate. open, objective, safe environments are condusive to expressing subjective viewpoints and experiences and expanding ones own viewpoints. such places are about as odd as me even. maybe thats why i feel so at home. another odd duck put it best... shelter from the storm. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HJdnOnWK_A

oh my... the syncronicity of these wv's never ceases to amaze me. check out this one... 'pecenick' ...p

Anonymous said...

Frm Belgium

HSW, this is all most unfortunate, especially since my remark had very little to do with you. The Murphs put the new post up and then asked an implied question which had nothing to do with the post and since it was directed specifically to you, there was no other choice than to respond. I can understand that Murph wanted to know if Blogspot’s comments were responding correctly but he should have asked it on the last post or waited for a few comments to come in re the new one and then slipped it in. This is the first time Baz has put a post up here and has very kindly responded to Murph’s request for guest contributions. I know that sometimes it can be a bitch putting ideas together in a readable form to make some specific point or other. It seemed to me that Baz’s efforts had been sidetracked on the very first comment and that didn’t sit particularly right with me. I did say “No disrespect intended” and I meant that and sincerely hope that you stay around. If you decide to go along your way then best of luck with your future however I hope that this will not be the last time we will be hearing from you.

freeacre said...

Got the movie on "save" at Netflix, p. I'll never forget watching Julia Child cut up a raw chicken. She must have drunk too much of the cooking wine, as she kept dropping it on the floor and chortling - hilarious! She was my first introduction to a higher level of cooking.
Pangolin - I just printed out those killer recipes for Baby Dutch oven pancakes. God those look good!
Baz, where are you, Baz? Looks like you've got everybody's juices flowing (one way or another!)
Belgium, everybody has major problems with the first garden. Ours tanked as well. It's a learning curve for sure. Maybe in your case hydroponics would be the way to go - on a porch or tucked in sunny spots maybe. Or maybe just grow sprouts in jars. That would maintain life in a pinch.

Baz said...

HAHAHA—laughing my ass off. I went pig-hunting yesterday. Of course—what else would I do?. I come back .. and, mostly laughing at my own words .. they look different in print. I thought I was thinking them, didn't realize I was saying them aloud—haha. This big-ole world can mess you 'round some/sum more than the parts.

Sometimes to be sane, you have to go a little crazy.

Visualising what you want helps manifest dreams. A full Moon in fiery cousin Leo makes it patently obvious that luck is on your side and positive thoughts produce the best possible outcomes. ~ reads like a horror scope.

You find it hard to handle sensitive subjects tactfully. People who are in your face provoke unkind responses despite the fact you prefer empathy to antipathy. Communicating feelings honestly is fraught with danger.

The crisis of today is the joke of tomorrow. ~ H.G. Wells (1866-1946)

Man .. having trouble concentratng—me hunting associate threw me a weedy pressy .. and I keep forgetting stuff .. I just thought of.

doesn't .. many layers of the cake. — nuh, haha WV: ration

Hotspringswizard said...

Well I just dropped back in to see what kind of reaction there might be to my last post. Thanks for the thoughtful and considerd thoughts of some of you posters.

Freeacre wrote this in her most recent entry, " When a person takes the stick, he or she is listened to with respect and little evaluation. Then the stick is passed and the next person is extended the same attention and courtesy. None of us has the whole truth. But each of us has our own part of it. And, together, we can combine our perspectives and perhaps be able to synthesize a wiser overall stance. ".

My impression this far is that Murph and Freeacre seem like very thoughtful and considerate people who have come up with this neat idea ( their blog ) and way for interested parties to share their many thoughts on these troubled times we are entering into.

So Pangolin, what was your intent with this, " Blogging bin berry, berry good to me. Hep mi fit the wild thoughts into the world. Tell me that there be solutions as well as pain. ". Maybe Pangolin is peved with me about my contrary position involving the idea of Burning ever having any real impact on the the course of greater society. In what I wrote I was speaking of something other than whether some ideas or experiences might bring some benifit, in some form, outside the event. These are two differant issues and I agreed with the secondary point made by Zoner.

Regarding Baz and his written contribution. I read it before I posted anything in this thread and found it interesting. He seems like a very independent type with skills I'm sure that will serve him well in terms of survivability and living with the earth on more sustainable terms. I appreciate his respect for nature and the animals he consumes.

In my initial responses I dealt with two things Freeacre brought up in her entry, ideas about what this blog tries to accomplish, and her mention of John's recent entry at Survival Acres. I had some thoughts about those things. My lack of commentary about Baz was not meant as any form of dis-respect to him. There were differant subjects in Freeacres entry, and I addressed a couple of them. But even if I didn't, and brought up something I wanted to share unrelated to an entry, should that really matter? Should the response guidlines be that rigid?

I think the important thing as one of the " anonymous " posters mentioned, is that people should feel this as a comfortable space to voice their thoughts. I think that is a worthy goal and Murph and Freeacre to my mind are doing very well towards this end.

I shared a few thoughts and ideas with you here for the last few days, and have done so in a respectful manner with consideration. If I disagree and want to point that out, I think its important for me to do so without sarcasim, rudness, mockery, foul language and things of that nature. In many blogs there is so much rudness and nonsense going on. I hope your special space doesn't devolve into something like that.

I've only visited here for a short time. The thoughtful comments by some here have reminded me that I should not judge to quickly what is the greater nature of this blog, its intent, and the truer manner of those who frequent it.

So I'll still drop in to see what your ongoing musings are. I go to many web places because I want to know better the scope and qualities of this time before us, with very negative repercussions coming from many fronts. I like to read peoples thoughtful ideas about all of this. It helps me see and understand things I never would be able to if not for these various avenues of thought, of learning.

Once again I would say I appreciate the efforts of those like Murph and Freeacre to create a place of the sharing of ideas like this blog. They show that they care, and want to help.

And lastely Baz, you wild dude! I don't think I could do those Pig eyes. That is cool that you use the whole animal. Reminds me of the Indians and their full use of the Buffalo's.

Take care all, and thanks for your thoughts :-)

freeacre said...

Yes, you keep coming back, HSWizard. Let's not forget that the Great Spirit led you here, eh?
Glad you are back, Baz! I remember the first (and only) person I met who ate fish eyes. We lived in Jamaica and she had been a poor girl in Malta before coming to the US and eventually marrying a stockbroker. She wasted NOTHING either. I think she even ate the hard bill of a parrot fish in addition to it's eyes. That woman could really eat.

murph said...

Hot springs wizard,

Thank you for your comment. I am sure Freeacre will jump in on this.

It is true that we have a sort of ideal on this blog. We have not found another blog that is quite like this one. Some that get similar. Ideal are never met, it's a challenge to just see how close you can get.

I agree that many of the forums, blogs etc have what appears to me to be rather disconnected relationships. Perhaps we read too much into what we are doing, but our feeling is that we have a real connectedness here. I also find the comments on many sites to be pretty insulting, snide and disrespectful. We have had in the past some real slimy types come in and try and disrupt the gathering and I am truthfully going to say that myself and several others have been a bit hard mouthed around that. During the Bush empire, it happened once in a while but not so much in the last year or so. For me at least, it wasn't so much that there was a very big gap of political outlook, but the way it was presented. I periodically go into the neo con sites to just to see what the latest take is on what is happening. And for clarification, I would be considered an extremist conservative, I am a dyed in the wool anarchist and have almost no respect for either political party in this country, and that includes the libertarians. Those visiting this site for some time now are vary familiar with my positions on government and politics.

About the posts. Freeacre and I are much into putting feet on the ground and doing what seems to be needed doing. Our posts, as described in the blog heading, is to stimulate thought and discussion but is never limited to the posting. Sometimes the post is about all is talked about, and other times barely referred to. We invite guest posts for a multiplicity of reasons, and one of them is we sometimes just have nothing to really talk about. Writers block? lol. But also, we were given the chance on the original blog site to begin writing posts and in two years it was moved to the present blog. I freely invite others to write posts. After a couple of years, the subject matter gets a bit thin. Belgium recently did a post on his research on abiotic oil. Bas on how he is doing a wilderness survival trip, although survival is maybe an inappropriate word for it. Looks to me like pretty good living. If I was 30 years younger I might just be meeting him at the river bank hog hunting. I did a real primitive living gig a bunch of years ago in the mountains of Arkansas and that was with a wife and 3 kids. She divorced me later on. lol. Never did figure out why.

I do hope Baz skinned that wild hog before he booked his ass. Need new pair of boots out there maybe.

Anyway, thanks for the long comment, and glad your still peeking in on the campfire happening.

Anonymous said...

goddam it i got stung four times today by either hornets or wasps, both of which are as abundant as a good christian with the mentality of a dust mop.
and now i know what's up here at the ok corral, its mars gettin so close its stirring up the natives, been like that for days case no one has noticed, fuckin bitin , snappin and carrying on like a bunch of school girls and fuck me if i ain't right at the top of the heap;,, its the fuking vibes from the war planet, langosta says it was like this the last time that planet got this close.
just when a guy thinks hes above this kind of shit, wham! fuck me in the goats ass, i can't stand it.
i', going to bed,
Hotspringswizard, don't go man we love ya, and you say good words to chew on, at least to me they do.
this place can use all the help it can get and if it all looked the same that would not be any fucking help whatsoever!~
hoping you reconsider ,
at least think kindly of the brothers and sisters that will miss your words which were not near enough, piss i don't even understand why you'd go.

Baz said...

Only an uncivilized perspective and not to be taken seriously, written in a Sasha-Baron Cohen—like instructive: Remember Gauguin died of syphilis.

Hey Hotwizard, you spelt sarcasm wrong—haha —just kidding—take it easy— at the campfire we have rules—somebody quick tell me them— ah, just like on the set of "Deliverance". to recap: the ship is sinking — everyone on board the inflatables are stabbing each other, and missing—haha, making the holes, only bigger.

Many pigs on the mountain, but they hide—haha, get it Pangolin—hide. You know, you're right—could me making me a jacket or boots or somethin, got me considering the possibilities now. Brushes yeah, still using synthetic.

Einstein's a genius right? Lookee the code he lived by ; 'Schopenhauer's saying — “A man can surely do what he wills to do, but he cannot determine what he wills.” — impressed itself upon me in youth and has always consoled me when I have witnessed or suffered life's hardships. This conviction is a perpetual breeder of tolerance, for it does not allow us to take ourselves or others too seriously; it makes rather for a sense of humour.'

Had some incredible insight about cake .. but can't remember it.

Pangolin said...

HSwizard_ The only person I was mocking with that phonetically spelled response was me. (doing a riff on an old Eddie Murphy skit and in the spirit of Ladle Rat Rotten Hut) http://www.exploratorium.edu/exhibits/ladle/ I have a detailed post that I threw up later on my blog if you click through on my name. It's not gentle so you may wish to let sleeping dogs lie. Thanks for crystalizing a fat post for me.

This excellent forum is shaped by freeacre and those who respond and contribute under his guidance. It is neither a shouting box or a collection of dittos and thank dog for that. Don't forswear it because I bumped you in dancing by. No harm meant or taken.

Baz_ Someday the donut philosophy i keep having will stay long enough to get typed up. I keep forgetting it shortly after the donut is actually consumed. Before it seems very profound.

Anonymous said...

From Belgium


Murph is a man and his good lady is Freeacre or to be more politically correct, which we seldom are here, Freeacre is a lady and her good man is Murph:-)

Pangolin said...

There I go losing points on my gender sensitivity card again. Good thing I wash my feet 'cause they go in my mouth lots.

Check out Joe Bageant's new post. Love me some grumpy old man.....


Anonymous said...

since we're all a little bit pointed in the general direction of back to the land even if only thats true in the minds of some of us useful tidbits of back woods wisdom can come in handy. i stole this one to pass along to ya from george ure's http://urbansurvival.com/week.htm ...

"The best precautions to take while traveling in bear country are to carry pepper spray to repel the animal and attach a small bell somewhere on your person such that when you are moving the bell will ring. This will keep you from walking up on a bear by surprise and allow it to hear you from a distance and move off.

Since black bears and grizzlies have such different aggression levels it's also useful to know what kind of bears are in the area you are traveling through. This can best be ascertained by observing any bear scat you may come across. Black bear scat usually consists of seed hulls, vegetable matter, and rodent fur, while grizzly poop is usually full of little bells and smells like pepper. Sometimes .30 and .38 rounds, too."

wadda ya think there wildman of the wilderness? do dis apply to da tusked one too? top a the mornin back to ya.

mf... watch the post. box on the way... p

Anonymous said...

on bageant on grandma...

If insurance corporation profits are one third of the cost of healthcare, and all insurance corporations do is deliver our money to healthcare providers for us (or actually, do everything in their power to keep the money for themselves), why do we need insurance companies at all? Answer: Because Wall Street gets a big piece of the action.

now thats a figure been wonderin about meself. glad somebody finally said it. pretty much sums it up don't it.

thx for the tip pan... p

Anonymous said...

opps, forgot the 'on bageant' part... ya know, ya can extrapolate what joe said there to include just about everything that is the extortion flim flam of the peoples money. which, as yogi said, is the same as cash. that medium we use to exchange goods and services. the stuff of real value.

iow, invest in stocks pilgrim. ira and 401k yer way to the american dream. physical health care. ecomomic health care. subsidized by what? when a wall street investment firm can pay their employees on average over 700K per each for answering the phone, sweeping the floor, or pushing buttons we otta be pissed. hwen an oil company can report profits of 14B. in ONE quarter....

so why are so many coming otta the woods now shaking fists and eyes-popped screaming, blood red-faced, that they're perfiectly happy with their health insurance? well, one reason is because they're the ones who HAVE health insurance and haven't gotten sick yet to have it suddenly go poof. but a better reason? mis-directed rage! and under that? they're scared shitless!!

see why i keep saying twisted up, un-evolved emotions are acting out here and in play at the causality level? ...p

Hotspringswizard said...

Pangolin, Thanks for answering my question and explaining what you meant. Sorry for my misunderstanding of your intent. I did check out your blogsite and read the top entry about blogging. I agree with your thoughts. So your in Chico. My wife went to college there. My brother has done some talks there about various issues like climate chance, 9-11, chemtrails etc as he has done the same at other venues around the Redding area.
I sent my brother the last essay by John at survival acres and he passed it along to his list of people. He feels the same way as John. He says he done with trying to wake people up and will focus on building his sustainablility capabilities and other local endeavors that will bring reasonable benifits. I still agree with the sentiments expressed in your recent blogpost Pangolin. The thoughtful sharing of ideas through the medium of the blog format is something I think is important too. Again thanks for your thoughts :-)

freeacre said...

Pangolin, lol, don't feel bad about not knowing that I am female. I sorta get a kick out of assuming a gender non-specific handle. Feels oddly liberating to be heard, at least for awhile, without a feminine voice.

Hotspringswizard said...

Thanks for you thoughts also Murph, MF+B ( anonymous ) and BAZ. Murph, the more I read of the thinking and feelings of both you and Freeacre, the more I appreciate you both as wise, considerate, and thoughtful people. Refreshing :-)
Baz, You will be able to point out on a regular basis spelling and/or grammer errors in what I right :-)I've never been interested in using features such as spell check or things like that. I do proofread what I write but I usually always miss something. My goal in writting a thought is to convey my ideas in good enough form to be understood hopefully by all who read it. Along with this, spelling and grammer ( english, bah ) was not my favorite subject in school :-) I know you didn't mean anything negative in your comment BAZ. I enjoy your unique personality :-)
And speaking of the unique qualities of individuals, when I'm at Burning Man one of the favorite things I like to do is sit and observe all the burners passing through the area of great congregation there called Center Camp. I see each individual as such interesting worlds unto themselves of thought and feeling. I relish the vast variety of creative expression of the people at Burning Man. The aura of pervasive exceptance of others and their own unique qualities is a feature of the Burning Man tribe that I appreciate deeply. I feel very much at home there :-) Well I'll be back in that dusty wonderful world of creativity in little over a week. Looking forward so much to the new Burning Man adventure. For those intersted, I have a couple of sets of some of my Burning Man photos which I took last year and 2007 at my most recent photo website. You can view them at:


Go to pages 8-12 for photos from 2008 Burning Man, and 14-16 for some of those I took in 2007. The night time scenery of colorful lights and flames is also so astounding. My friend has a better camera and is more skilled at photography than I and he has got some great shots of Burning Man at night. Anyway you can view lots more photos from a wide variety of photographers at burningman.com in the " photo gallery " section.
Once again good to hear all your thoughts :-)

Anonymous said...

From Belgium

HSW Checked out the flickr site, some pretty awesome photography.

Anonymous said...

hsw... pix... amazing! ..palooka

Hotspringswizard said...

Hello Belgium :-)Glad you enjoyed the pics. I used to have another photo site at MSN groups with about 600 photos but they closed that feature down earlier this year so I started up a new site with Flickr, and I like theie format and features. I used my digital camera for the first time at Burning Man last year but it didn't do well in the night time shots. This year I'll take my 35 mmm for night time photos and use my digital for day shots. I was looking at a couple of CD's of my friends photos from last year. He has some amazing shots of the wild body painting that goes on at Burning Man.
Also want to say thank you Belium for your ealier sentiments of good will and explanation of your thoughts regarding Baz's entry :-)

Baz said...

FA, Yes juicy, yes Hawaiians my ancestors, on my mother's side.
FB, It's really , I kidd not, a (series) fortunate accident I ended up here. I am grateful to be alive, and am loathe to accept 2nd—rate life. An accidental escape, from the world, to the world. but escape.

As for preferred Weapons Systems Technology: I challenge myself with a cross-bow. Where is the requisite hunter skill in turning them into mince-meat on the spot, with a rear-mounted .50 calibre? There is no bruising of the 'food' with arrows, so no wastage. They'll often go right through them! Yes, you have to get close. Can certainly commiserate on the rapid-response of commentors—

Have had great success growing coffee, in a large ceramic pot in the conservatory. Died from frost, outside. Solution obvious—more conservatory!

solution/pain—all 1 country. “Baby, it's a wild world.” ~ Cat

Bears in the woods (black, brown, grizzly), best dealt with, executed at lightening speed—No. 1 Aikido-hari ogoshi (full-body throw), so fast, he won't even see it coming! Ah, tusked—boars can rip the flesh off your bones, if you're not quick. Hunters have sometimes found large pigs with .22 slugs embedded in their skulls, running around free. .357 magnum and bigger will stop (on the spot) .. any peeg.

Beautiful photography HSW—a wizard with a camera!

Hotspringswizard said...

I'm breaking this up into two segements since I see it was too much for one post. This is part 1

Glad you enjoyed the pics Anon and Baz :-)

I've been thinking lately about inquiring of the TC Clan's thoughts on how close you all think we really are to a system wide meltdown of the US and world economies ( massive societal disruptions ), which could be caused by a wide range of things, or more likely many things in combination.

As one of the components of this, I have been researching in significant depth information about the world energy situation, and the realities specifically of the oil supply. I've poured through vast amounts of sources and from this I have a high degree of confidence that the world has reached peak production. I do not see for myself any information that I would give creedence to that oil comes from an Abiotic source ( meaning no dis-respect for the poster who cited info about this here at Troutclan ). The evidence I feel has consistently supported that we are in the plateau stage of world oil production and a very serious downsloping of suppy is in our near term future.

So this is one items that is threatening the world's industrial paradigm of infinite growth. One only needs to look at last summer to see what high energy prices can and will do to our complex economic systems. I also think the high oil price episode last summer started the house of cards falling in the economic chaos we experienced from last year into this year.

The economic system was poised for a crash anyway, teetering of the giddy heights of rampant fraud, greed and corruption of a system that has no future but to fail. The green shoots recovery, the " Bernake says the recession is ending " type economic happy talk is laughable and pure BS for anyone who looks deeply into the fundamentals of what now is the ongoing dire economic reality in the country.

There is a long list of ills ( enregy, economic, population, climate, water, soils, biodiversity, and on and on ) theatening to take down what has been built up in our recent incredible time of abundance, enabled by our use of hydrocarbon energy. The developed contries in particular have rampantly borrowed from the future on so many fronts and now the chickens are coming home to roost in ernest.

So with all of this in mind, I have been seeing in the info I regularly reserch alot of rumblings that mega meltdown is now imminent, with alot of talk about big things happening as soon as this fall.

So you have to think that TPTB see this thing coming too to one extent or another. So what are they planning behind the scenes to do about it? How will they deal with massive populations thrust into economic armegedon from increasing energy constraints and collapsing pyramid type economic castles in the sand?

You know there's going to be loads of unruly people as this situation degenerates, the faster it declines the more the rule of the jungle will return. So is that what the Haliburton empty detention facilities are for? You know there's no way normal law enforcement can control a massive population of dis-enfranchised citizens who are looking for someone to blame, someone to pay back for the ills they are experiencing.

..... continued in part 2

Hotspringswizard said...

Actually now it look like it will take three sections, here is Part 2

...I wonder whats up with this level six pandemic flu thing declared by the WHO. Why such a dramatic reaction to a pathegon that has thus far shown itself to be quite mild. The WHO has the authority to assume control of the situation above local government authority if they deem the situation as threatening enough. right now I've heard that the vacination regarding this is not mandatory, but the truth is they can change that any time. What will you do if they come to your door and say you have to be injected with a foriegn substance or be incarcerated. Are the TPTB up to something with all of this. Many suspect they are. I don't know but who really trust them after just what has occured in the last ten years alone.

Why are the residences of everyone in the US being GPS'ed? They even went on my brothers remote land to GPS his house without permission, even when they were told they were tresspassing.

I have researched extensively through various mediums the greater realities of 9-11 and I have no doubts whatsoever that entities within the US government were involved with it, facilited this travesty to one extent or another. If you can't realize the implosion of Building 7 ( just by itself ) was a clear case of a controlled demolition then I know there's nothing else I could offer a person to convince them of this false flag thats been perpetrated on the american public. People operating out of caves halfway around the world could not pull this off. Afganistan, Iraq, the patriot act, homeland security, and on and on. It all adds up to one gigantic fubar pile of corruption, greed, plunder and control. These are the kinds of things some in humanity are capable of. This is why in his time Mark Twain referred to us as " The damned human race ". Its part of the greater nature of humanity, as it has been and always will be.

I'll just mention another brief story my brother just told me about recently, thinking it worth bringing up at least. My brother rented a car recently from his friend in Redding. He has been sharing with this man various info of all these ills I speak of. Anyway this man recently told him of an experience where ( I think it was ) and ex general who was renting a vehicle from him. They were talking about some of the crazy crap thats been going on with the US. He said this General was looking quite stressed and made a comment along these lines to him, that people have their general preconceptions of whats going on, but in a few months there going to find out how wrong they really are. So this is just a story told to my brother and I have no real way to know if there's anything to it but it does go along with what I've been reading lately of many peoples concerns that were on the cusp of very dramatic events of one sort or another.....

continued in part 3

Hotspringswizard said...

Part 3

.....Even Freeacre made the comment here very recently that in looking at economic data its time to perhaps " cirlce the wagons ". James Howard Kustler is giving much the same impression even though he is prone to specific prognostication that he'd be better off not making.

So I as a family man try to take all this in and not let it drive me off the deep end ( like the people in the movie Bug ). We have to keep our heads straight and not go Tin Foil Hat Bat Crazy. Of course much of what I see to be true now in the dealings of this world would be considerd just this by the greater population. Anyway I'm just trying to understand all of this to help me decide what course I should choose, how should I prepare, what things do I need to do.

Seems to me about the best one can do if everything does devolve rapidy is to find the ways to live as simply as possible, as sustainable as possible, with a group or small community of responsible well intentioned other folks who can all work together to cope with these kinds of drastic changes. If the whole thing goes down in some catastrophic fashion, the really all bets are off since any lifeboat or secluded niche you build for yourself could easily be overtaken, overrun by those who's only objective then is to survive by any means necesary. Maybe if your some adebt survivalist ( Baz comes to mind ) who's retreated to locals too harsh for the zombies to follow, then maybe you could avoid the onslaught, but for the vast majority that is no realistic option, as it is not for me and my family.

I've said to myself, such un-precedented times for humanity we are living in, rising to such a high pinnacle of " supposed " achievement, only to be staring down the steep slopes of the abyss before us, in ways we can only try to decipher. Maybe this time of decline will work out to be more gradual but I don't see how it will be anything but highly challengeing for all of us in the immediate decades to come. So there's something to chew on. I apologize in advance for my short novel here :-)

Zoner said...

To answer a question with a question, if you see this as inevitable, does "when" really matter?

There are many folks who bugged out decades ago convinced the end was near. Look around, see the signs and react as you best see fit for you and yours is what I would advise if I actually felt competent to offer any.

I choose this for me and mine;

"live as simply as possible, as sustainable as possible, with a group or small community of responsible well intentioned other folks who can all work together to cope with these kinds of drastic changes"

Now I just have to find them (and me, too).

It seems like there is too much to (un)learn and too little time, but there is no time like NOW to start moving towards something, otherwise you may find yourself running away from something else. There is no doubt in my heart that we are being driven, but by what, exactly, remains to be seen.

Baz, that pig is an impressive creature! I can see he is well equipped to fight back if given the chance, too. What do you do when the meat is done cooking - are you feeding a whole bunch of folks or is there a way to preserve some portion for later use?

Looks like it could feed a bunch of people, and might be a good excuse for a gathering of some sort.

The food pictured looks divine. I really respect what all of you have done here and want you to know how inspired I am hearing your thoughts and tales of your actions. I might be stepping out for a bit, but know that I am always here in one way or another, and value all we have shared here.

Thanks again to all of you.

Love to all,


murph said...

Hotsprings wizard,

Short novel indeed, lol. I think Singapore guy is the only one to write a longer novel at this site.

Your concerns in your 3 part comment are truly justified. Indeed is there going to be a rapid catastrophic crash or a long slow decline of pure misery escalating? That question alone Freeacre and I talk about nearly every day. Of course we have been anticipating this since the 70's and the current information we see now is so contradictory that we can't really decide on that issue.

The choice of what to do about either scenario is rather broad it appears to me. Many advocate heading for the hills, others advocate entrenchment where you are. Money to do either is of course a factor. Skill sets you possess are a big factor. In our case, heading for the hills is not an option, too damned old to do that again. Been there, done that, it can be hard depending on the environment you go to. Any living off the land in this country would be damned hard, it's not like NZ at all, too much development, too many people etc. Prime areas for such a retreat have been developed. What is left could rapidly be overrun. If it gets really tough, game is going to be mighty scarce almost anywhere accessible and way too many people competing for what is out there. Most would fail in this and it would take years for plentiful game to regenerate if they weren't driven into extinction. In modern times there are a whole bunch of species that have been hunted to extinction in just this country in the last 150 years. Put a lot more people out there with modern hunting equipment and what is left won't last long.

Personal opinion is a SMALL community of like minds are the best option. That is what we are doing because of that thinking. But may not fit others perceptions or ability.

If you are familiar with Charles Smith of the site http://www.oftwominds.com/blog.html

has an excellent 112 page book he has written that might clarify some of your concerns or questions. A good read. It is a free download in PDF format from his site. Called "Survival +".

Anonymous said...

From Belgium

I too don’t think I could beat Singapore Guy but here is going for a certificate of merit.

Hi Hot Springs Wizard, very diplomatically put about the abiotic post :-) I put that up as a discussion document because I read the McGowan piece and I didn’t think the subject had a general proper airing. Personally I think the argument has some merit but apart from one or two fields, the regeneration rate is not fast enough to meet rising demand. One way or another the result is the same.

As far as the timing of the economic crash is concerned I think it is imminent, no one can be really precise about it. The old regulars will excuse me for playing broken record here but the ‘Global Europe Advance Bulletin’ people have been predicting late summer 2009 for two years now providing steps were not taken to address the root cause of the problem. The last chance to prevent disaster was the G20 meeting in London. Since this turned out to be more of a soach than a meeting of real intent, the die was cast. The last GEAB was No 36 and there is a no 37 due anytime but it is possible to plough through the back issues, the freebie tasters at least. The thing I like about this is that it is very well researched and there is absolutely no conspiracy spin, which gives it added weight.


You wrote “So you have to think that TPTB see this thing coming too to one extent or another. So what are they planning behind the scenes to do about it?”
I have to tell you that since the PTB are perping the whole thing they don’t plan to do anything about it apart from sitting back and letting it happen. That is why all those issues you listed “enregy, economic, population, climate, water, soils, biodiversity, and on and on” are happening so that those interested enough to care will be divided in their approach to an appropriate response.
By the way, where you aware that the WHO responds directly to the PTB or to put another way, the WHO is a sub branch of the PTB?

I mentioned earlier up the page that I was toying with the idea of writing a new post. This always starts the same way, I read something interesting and do a bit of research to flesh it out; it then becomes a novel and I consider giving the project up when I try to get it into a couple of thousand words. The following is one of the things I was thinking of including and I put it in here in response to your statement “You know there's going to be loads of unruly people as this situation degenerates, the faster it declines the more the rule of the jungle will return” This is so and what people will eventually come to realise is that there are two quite separate entities which they think of as interchangeable but they are not. One is the State and the other is the Government. The government is your ‘elected’ representatives who direct and look after your collective interests, in a representative democracy at least. The State requires a bit more explanation rather than a definition. This is also people but not the same ones as the government. Rather than condensing it I will just tell you what Oppenheimer had to say on the subject (In part two).

Anonymous said...

Part two:

“The positive testimony of history is that the State invariably had its origin in conquest and confiscation. No primitive State known to history originated in any other manner. On the negative side, it has been proved beyond peradventure that no primitive State could possibly have had any other origins. Moreover, the sole invariable characteristic of the State is the economic exploitation of one class by another. In this sense, every State known to history is a class-State. It is an institution forced on a defeated group by a conquering group, with a view only to systematizing the domination of the conquered by the conquerors, and safeguarding itself against insurrection from within and attack from without. This domination had no other final purpose than the economic exploitation of the conquered group by the victorious group.”

Albert Jay Nock further states “The mass-man, ignorant of [the State's] history, regards its character and intentions as social rather than anti-social; and in that faith he is willing to put at its disposal an indefinite credit of knavery, mendacity and chicane, upon which its administrators may draw at will. Instead of looking upon the State's progressive absorption of social power with the repugnance and resentment that he would naturally feel towards the activities of a professional-criminal organization, he tends rather to encourage and glorify it, in the belief that he is somehow identified with the State, and that therefore, in consenting to its indefinite aggrandizement, he consents to something in which he has a share -- he is, pro tanto, aggrandizing himself.”
“The unquestioning, determined, even truculent maintenance of the attitude is obviously the life and strength of the State, and obviously too, it is now so inveterate and so wide-spread -- one may freely call it universal -- that no direct effort could overcome its inveteracy or modify it, and least of all hope to enlighten it. This attitude can only be sapped and mined by recurrent calamity of a most appalling character. When once the predominance of this attitude in any given civilization has become inveterate, as so plainly it has become in the civilization of America, all that can be done is to leave it to work its own way out to its appointed end.”
“Spontaneous social action will be broken up over and over again by State intervention, no new seed will be able to fructify. Society will have to live for the State, man for the governmental machine. And as after all it is only a machine, whose existence and maintenance depend on the vital supports around it, the State, after sucking out the very marrow of society, will be left bloodless, a skeleton, dead with that nasty death of machinery, more gruesome than the death of a living organism. Such was the lamentable fate of ancient civilization."

So there are some thoughts on where social unrest is headed.

As for what to do about the present situation, apart from getting out of debt and living as simply as possible, I am not the right one to ask about that. Murph, Freeacre and some of the other regulars are better equipped to advise you on that one.


freeacre said...

Well, Hot Springs, you've pretty well summed up what we've been writing, organizing, and preparing for for the last 5 years or 7, depending on how you look at it. Time flies, I guess...
So, at this point in our stage of the game, I would probably be more appalled if nothing happened than if something drastic occurred. It was a real eye-opener to learn that the "Amero" coin was a fabrication of the CIA provocateur, Hal Turner. This type of disinformation is such an outrage. They just keep fucking with our heads, making legitimate plans is next to impossible.
The thing to come to terms with is that we may not know. Or, there is probably no one right way for everyone. We all have to decide for ourselves what is right for us. Personally, I don't want to be a consumer. I want to be a citizen, or a human, or an eternal spiritual being - but NOT a consumer any longer. Period. Collapse or not. Fuck the corporations and the banks.
Second, I have to come to terms with my demise. I want to be able to access my inner Klingon, and at any time be able to say, "It's a good day to die." This, of course, becomes way harder if you have dependent children.
Third, I have a sort of "Bucket List" that I am becoming aware of - things that I want to do while I still can. Like, I want to see the Oregon coast. And, I want to get a passport and visit British Columbia. I would like to take a train trip and see the Monterrey Aquarium. Stuff like that. Stuff that I would normally put off and never do.
That anecdotal story about the general is interesting. If we are all still here for the New Year, I guess we'll have more to celebrate than usual.

Hotspringswizard said...

Thanks for all your responses :-) I was talking to my brother this evening and he told me it was a current, not ex general regarding the story I mentioned.

As a family we are doing better off than most fortunately. I built ( I have a general contractors liscense ) us a new home in 2004 and its all paid for. We have no other type of debt either. We don't use our standard house heater or airconditioner, heating instead with about a chord and a half of wood and use a swamp cooler system maybe only a dozen or so days on average out of the year, so this helps alot with the utilities cost. We have a good deal of investments in various forms, 401k, pension, cash savings, a trust deed, and precious metals. Of course given what we are experiencing the viability of these various forms of preserving wealth will be subject to change, like negative trends in regards to the 401K and pension.

We could live very simply at our current home given security issues don't get out of hand if we enter much more troubled times.

We been working on a basic plan B in relation to 20 acres we own near my brothers property near Lake Shasta. Thus far we've had a nice sized house pad built, had a well installed ( good water/30GPM/ will run on just four solar panels ), have a couple of sea containers there for storage, have a 30 foot travel trailer there, 5000 gallons of water storage capacity, had a septic system installed, purchased 24 new solar panels with inverters, have a 500 gallon propane tank there.

If we just had to get out of where we are at because of theatening issues here we could live on our Northern Cal property with what we have. Food would be the most immediate important issue. Like Murph said any local game would not last long in stressed times for society.

Clearly it would take alot to make us just pack up and leave our current home. I really don't think the market has any chance of recovering again to the heights of the massive bubble thats just imploded. It cost me in total around 230 thousand for building cost for our home, including our land. A contractor friend of mine who I worked for, for many years as a licensed electrician just built himself and his wife a new home a few miles down the road from our Northern Cal property. He liked the plan of our home and basically built the same house up there. His building cost alone where about 440 thousand. If we were to ever build up there we would clearly have to downsize greatly since we don't have the resources to build a house like our current one there.

My wife works for the major trucking company YRC. She is the Human Resource Rep for the So Cal area which is a really good job with many perks. If the economy is doing anything there is clearly trucking.

I've done alot of things since entering the world of work, dishwasher, dieslel fueler, steel worker, tree trimmer, sales clerk, city firefighter, forestry firefighter, paramedic, framer, electrician, general contractor, and now my favorite job of all, stay at home Papa :-)

Its the most rewarding time of my life, having plenty of time to spend with my family. The way things look like they are headed, all of our qualities of life will be changing for the worse as this economic decline worsens, so I am appreciating the good things we have as much as possible now ( like Freeacre wanting to do her bucket list of wishes ), because it appears that we are surely in for very troubled times ahead.

Another thing I did to prepare is to lose 57 pounds since last October, and I'm now down to a healthy 169 pounds :-) Been eating real good and excercising alot, hiking and swimming. Being fit will certainly be an asset, no matter what our future holds :-) Once again thanks for all your ideas and thoughts. Hopefully this fall won't bring to many negative supprises and we have to admit the General was right :-)

Baz said...

when jungle law returns, I get to be prezident—hah.

Re: World Homicide Organization — We've always only been primates flinging sh*t at each other. Just b'cuz you dress-up a pig with lip-stick doesn't really camouflage it! I can see it!

$250 bucks worth.

Zoner, yes—proactive rather then reactive. As they say in the .mil—'preemptive strike'. The Hippies were trying to warn us, man—back in the 60-70s. Yes, it's a crying shame they ended up in charge of the very thing they were railing against (probably get some shrapnel—hah). But hey, soldiers can take drugs too—and do, b4 they .kil. Helps them to forget .. 2, ah, the world has always been ending .. since the beginning of time, for the 1 in it.

Small/other pig —I freeze— before I had adequate refrigeration, I would employ the neighbors fridge, with orders to eat! ah, I think they got sick of eating it! Me missus does too! She buys store-bought—aarghh Have a couple of sons/young-men which can drop-in anytime on surfing excursions from the big smoke. Ah yes, gathering—enjoy vibes, play guitar badly—getting better—hah. Might see me on American Idol ..

WV: wingued

murph said...

Hot springs wizard

Sounds like you got a pretty good setup.

While our setup is not near so grand, it suits us in many ways. Our converting the property to produce food has also paid off for us. If we were trying to totally heat with wood it would be considerably more than a couple of cords a years that's for sure. We have a 40 x 50 ft garage that I insulated and put a wood burner in it. Winter before last I heated it 24/7 from around beginning of Oct to middle of April and it took 4 cords. Course it's a tad colder winters here than where you are. We're at 4200 ft.

Interesting that you mention that quality of life will go down. In a material aspect, ours has gone down and yet in many ways we are happier and feel a bunch more free. I suspect that the closer ties one has to the material part of living the greater the shock will be if it all goes away. Habituation will be a factor too if the crash is slow enough. Human beings are notorious to learning to live with the most grim of conditions if they aren't shocked into it. Got to admit though, a cardboard box under an overpass is not what I will put up with.

You familiar with the half past human web site and their predictions? That should raise the hair on the back of your neck.

Hotspringswizard said...

I agree with your point Murph that less material complications can mean a higher quality of life. I was just cleaning out my closet today since it was getting a bit unruly :-) I got rid of a bunch of stuff. Ah, now I feel better :-)

When I met my wife I had real simple living arrangments, living in a 20 foot trailer, with my two solar panels for power, taking warm water wash cloth baths, getting my entertainment from my 12volt stereo and TV. I had things so simplified that I only used about 5 gallons of propane a month on average. I've lived in an RV, 5th wheel trailer and other small trailers so I know what its about and I actually was quite content during those times, living that way. So thats why I know I could do it again if I had too at our property.

That website you mentioned, is it halfpasthuman.com ? I have not been to that one. If this address is not right could you let me know what it is, or can I just google half past human. I'll try that tomorrow.

I just saw some " breaking news " that the national debt red ink is rising. They said it had reached 2 trillion. I assume they are talking for this year alone. The FED ( Vampire Scumbags ) has funneled what now, around 14 trillion in various ways into the system to preserve the illusion of solvency of the system. Zombie banks and Zombie corporations is what they really are. And the FED of late is doing alot of the buying of the treasuries and bonds at auctions and putting it on their balance sheets, trying to hide the fact that foriegn investors who had been buying up all of our debt are no longer so keen to do so. These investors even now are beginning to diversify away from US debt.

Well it looks like from the weather satelite image that some thunderstorms are rolling out of Arizona in our direction. I hope they hold together and give us some rain sometime tomorrow. This high desert has been mighty dry this year.

murph said...


Your last leaves me a bit confused. lol, again. Your pics show living in the bush, you talk about wife and surfers around. hmmm. How remote are you?

Baz said...

haha, confused?—‘Once I thought I was wrong, and everyone else was right. But I was wrong.’

OK, so I get to rant .. more. Yes, live remote, wife remote too. Ex-wife (2 sons) distant—300 miles south in NZs largest city. I live on a mountainous isthmus-like peninsula near the top, 20 miles from the coast either side. Sons are city-bred, visit in summer .. surfing excursions. I lived in the city ah, 8 years ago, suffering from increasing claustrophobia. Sardines in tins living on top of everyone. Couldn't even piss on my front lawn without the neighbor seeing me .. and goin aarrghh. Everyone living there remote spiritually / psychologically from each other. Homes are only catapults slinging people to mortgage servicing facilities remotely unaware of insanity, remote from Banksters residing in other countries.

Now, when I piss on citric trees (liquid fertiliser—grapefruit, lemon, tangelo—love the acidity urine : grapes don't—die), can't see nothing but trees, mountains, rivers—aaahhh!

“Whoever saves 1 life, saves the world, in time.” ~ The Talmud

Simple 12 volt system, started with only 2 6-volt batteries, and added to over years. Still only using 4 small solar panels. Micro-Hydro installed in stream (Sons great assistance) from which we also obtain gravity-fed water enough to provide 2 other households also!, has really boosted power supply. Even though only charges 5 amps, is constant 24/7 over autumn—winter. Now running 2 laptops (Missus plays video games on hers, and chief gardener, hygiene manager), lights, TV—video, DVD. Ahhh—civilization!

Lot of back-country here. My pig-hunting territory, which I guard jealously—in my back yard amounts to several hundred acres—mountainous terrain. My own nature gym. (I don't own it all!) Neighbors few and far between.

WHO?—World Homicide Organization: armaments providers / suppliers extraordinaire! Best kept secret from civilians: Just because Govt/Military usually employ covert means (deception), not limited to, use of deadly force is always authorized. For this reason I attempt to stay ahead of the curve-ball, being proactive rather than reactive / 'preemptive strike'. Standard Millitary Operation Procedure/Protocol: distinct tactical advantage. Remember we're at war .. with our Govt!

Hope all this is further clarification—or not, haha. If too much, just remember :—

Confucius say,“—man who sit with mouth open wait long-time for roast duck 2 fly in mouth.”

Anonymous said...

From Belgium

That is some 6V 5A system especially if it Works over 300 miles! And not even an electric fence to piss on.

Baz said...

no,no,no,no, From Belgium —you've got it all wrong! I didn't mean .. (hold on—haha, this is a piss-take, am I right?) Re-reading now dammit, for my own clarification ... OK, could have worded it differently. More concise. Me 2 sons live 300 miles away on the grid—Howzat!

What I meant was I've managed to create civilization slowly out of the landscape and cheap sh*t from China, Inverter, Stereo etc. Look I'm only a "wild-man", if I catch you 'poaching' without a Kiwi (rare-endangered bird) 'aversion certificate', or even with one.

Looking at-it, could/should (I struggle, chopping and changing things around) have written: Hope all this provides further clarification, but I ain't ah, no English Professor.

Anonymous said...

From Belgium

Baz ;-)

Actually it was the 300 mile distant ex lady wife playing video games on her lap top that did it.

Don’t worry we all do it. A while ago I spelled once with a ‘W’ in the front which that old dog mf has now entered into his spellchecker and keeps slipping in to remind me every now and again. I don’t know why but every time he does it, it breaks me up.

Anonymous said...

ha... i thought it might be the 20 miles up near to the top. as in 12 more than the first 8 penned as eight miles high by jim-later-roger mcguinn, david-long-time-gone crosby, and gene-who-mostly-wrote-it clark. the byrds flip side to tamborine man about a plane ride to england but interpreted by listener and DJ alike as an anthem to psychedelic lala land. did the byrds mind? hell no. they laughed as they flew all the way to the bank and up, up, and away into the legend of counter-culture lore that is the hippie gen.

wv... jukstou. as in position?... palooka

Anonymous said...


crosby tried his damdest to kill hisself with the magic potions.

where he failed clark succeeded. mostly in effort to manage his intense anxiety. from guess what? flying!

mcguinn? rock was forever imprinted aa a result of his infamous 12 string rickenbacher riffs... http://www.lyon.edu/webdata/users/kadler/public_html/rmcguinn/sound_index.html

trivia on a lazy sunday afternoon.


Anonymous said...

full link...


Anonymous said...

Hey, did anyone see any of the documentary series on PBS called, "Praire House" (I think it was called that)? For several weeks it followed a few families who were placed in rural Montana and had to live the way a 1885 family lived.

Well, at first, the kids of these families revolted -big time. There was no TV, Nintendo, CD's, DVD's, computers, etc. and they had to learn in a one room schoolhouse. As the weeks progressed, the kids all started to like their school lessons and began to enjoy the work required of them on the farm. Granted, there were a few adults who couldn't adapt or started to freak-out, but in the end, when the summer was winding down and the families were to be heading back to "the real world," the kids were totally depressed. They didn't want to leave. Several were crying on camera when the day came for them to leave Montana. The last scene on the second to the last show was of one boy, I think he might have been 13 or so, and he was talking about his time on the farm. He spoke quietly with a slight lisp and what came out of his mouth was remarkable. He said, "I think I've learned a lot here. I think I've learned something special. I've learned... imagination."


freeacre said...

Randy, I would like to watch that series, but I searched all over for it on Netflix and couldn't find it. Does anybody know what the name of it is for certain?

Pangolin said...

The name of the series was "Frontier House"

here's your link to the wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frontier_House

The saddest part was the follow up visit to the home of two teen girls in Malibu. They looked so bored and hollow after seeing them active and playful on the prairie. It's clear to me that what we do to our children to allow parents to work away from the home is a crime.

Rotting their brains doesn't even begin to describe it. :gnashes teeth: