Monday, August 30, 2010

Making a Timely Response




murph exercising his inner Neanderthal with the hides


Had to do something with the mint and lettuce from the garden: Tahbouli salad

By murph (& freeacre)

Scrapwood asked the question in the previous comments, "Why are their no longer people like Mario Silvio (deceased). Where are the protests and why do young people just sit on their hands and do nothing.

I have a tentative answer for you.

I have had the excuse to talk a bit with younger people lately, 20 somethings. It appears to me that many of them realize that something is terribly wrong. It also appears to me they have no idea what to do about it or they realize the futility of trying.

IMO, it appears to me that we missed our chance (if there ever was one) to do something important in the direction our society was taking back in the 60's -70's. Yup, lots of protesting, lots of ideologies floating around back in the day. However, you probably noticed that nothing came of it. I attribute that to the naïve-ness of the population at the time. I was into some of it. We really didn't understand the nature of what we were dealing with or fighting against. We actually believed that protesting in the streets would/could change anything substantial. How wrong we were and we got beaten up bad. We were also under the impression that we lived in a system where those that governed actually had our interests and well being at heart. Wrong again.

I read/listen to speeches and documents by people that have some influence and the fringe activists of every stripe. None of them will actually admit (if they realize it) what the problems actually are and as you should realize a problem can't be fixed if it is not defined correctly.

This country, socially, decided a long time ago that bigger, more, and more complex was better and that there was nothing wrong with greed. Consequently, there is never enough of anything, enough of actions or things or laws or ANYTHING. Always more and more.

While we have a very few examples of (what we call primitive) social groups where that drive for more is suppressed or not indulged in, it certainly is prevalent in all of what we call western civilization. There is much written concerning this drive for more of everything and what drives it. Take your pick of the explanations; it is readily observable no matter what its driving force is. This is the fallacy of western civilization; that there is always more available. Which is true for the short term. For the long term, we have all kinds of examples from history of what that attitude brings down on the societies of the time, collapse and chaos. (Notice that I do not use the term anarchy for this.) In the 60’ and 70’s we forgot that in the end analysis, there is no free lunch, that infinite expansion is not possible, that there are always consequences for decisions and actions, that there are absolute limits to growth dictated by the environment we live in, the physical reality of finite stuff on this globe.

Back in the day we forgot that there is always a certain percentage of the population, (usually around 1%) that are by definition psychopathic, that is, they will do absolutely anything they can get away with to further their acquisition of stuff and power over other people. They are absolutely ruthless in this pursuit. Supposedly, our system of government was put in place to limit and control those tendencies. Over time this was corrupted almost absolutely until we now have multiple crises over it. The psychopaths are truly and absolutely in power. The people put into power now have almost complete control and are expanding their control over the absolute essentials needed for personal survival. These people are not content with having every single material thing at their disposal and enjoyment. Instead, this is expanded into the desire to absolutely control everyone else on the planet also. I have to admit that I don’t understand or have any empathy concerning this drive to control people like this. Right down to the local level in communities, there are those that wish to control what people can or cannot do even when it is benign. Science is often utilized to prove that the control is necessary for the general good. In some cases, that might even be true. But, unfortunately, most of the “good for you” control has nothing to do with your or my well being. It is control for control sake and not to enhance the experience of living and making it safe. Every time I hear someone say that there ought to be a law about something I want to scream. Shit, we have laws governing right down to what we can eat or drink or smoke or even say or think now. There are never enough laws to satisfy the psychopaths. Of course, the psychopaths don’t have to live according to those laws, just everyone else.

We no longer live by the concept that your freedom stops at the end of my nose and visa versa. We no longer have the live and let live paradigm in our society. Instead, we have opted for more central control over our lives and opted for the greed is good concept. We are now looking at a future of consequences of those decisions.

If my above observations are correct, protests are an exercise of futility. Just a good way to let off emotional steam and maybe get beat up bad by the police and see just how much physical abuse one can take and still function. Protest will not change anything currently dealing with how the system operates nor change the minds of the people in power.

Which brings me to the subject of attitudes of the people in power. It seems obvious to me that there is a rather large chasm between those in power and everyone else. It also appears to me that those in the political elite (the minions for the PTB) have little if any respect for the peons below them in economic and social status. We are viewed as being useless eaters, stupid and untalented. For a good rant on this see; http://www.joebageant.com/ titled “Understanding Americas Class System”, his latest missive on this subject that I totally agree with. If Bageant is correct, what will protests or any other agitation actually accomplish? To have protests and challenges to policies and actions to have any affect on those policies and actions, those initiating them must recognize the validity of the protests, which they sure as hell do not.

One thing I do maintain is that if we want serious changes, we have to stop feeding the psychopaths and ultimately take away their power. That’s what revolutions are about. The problem is, historically, revolutions always seem to end up with another set of psychopaths in power. They may tread lightly for a while and make all kinds of promises, but in the end it is their power they are concerned with. World power is one giant Medusa. Cut off one head and another takes over. If this madness is to cease, the Medusa must be eliminated, by any means possible. That means that the controlling elite over the political elite has to be eliminated. How that would be accomplished I have no idea. Feel free to put the ideas of how to accomplish it out there. You will find that most will laugh it off. There is still that hope that one may one day become part of that elite too. I have not much hope for the elimination of the psychopaths, to be frank, at least in my lifetime. That’s for the younger generation to deal with. No wonder they are skateboarding.

(an add-on by freeacre)

I have a soft spot in my heart for the next generations. My very dear son is a GenX-er. I think these kids mostly fall into three categories, in terms of how they are choosing to deal with the struggles that they face:

1) They are techies who think that there is a technical fix to the problems ahead. These are the ones devoted to green power, better phone apps, or whatever. They are optimists (like my son - go figure) who are scarcity deniers, and who also do not read the papers, watch the news, and could care less about political parties. They are probably acutely aware, however, of the many ways the military could stifle them with the newest pain rays or other computer chip horrors if they were to openly rebel.

2) They join the military, due to economic realities, joining the ROTC in high school, or playing too many video games. These mostly working class kids are cannon fodder for our endless series of wars to prop up the stock market. Hoo Raaah! There are not enough of them being born here, which has required a permeable southern border.

3) Our “surfer” dudes, skateboarders, snowboarders, X-treem types or their tattooed and pierced wannabees who I think of as “shunners.” These kids are disenchanted with the foreseeable future, would like to get off the grid, and are trying to figure out some ways to get out of the system, since they have long since figured out that it holds nothing good for them. They have turned their backs on the corporate ladder (obviously), and are attempting to Not Feed the Beast. They do not read newspapers or watch the news, except maybe John Stewart on Comedy Central. These are the ones who call in sick to their pizza delivery jobs due to the National Snowboarding Championships being on the tube.

That’s my take on these Dear Ones born into this House of Horrors. Personally, my bet is on an asteroid to hit the re-set button.



Hot Springs Wizard preparing for Burning Man

87 comments:

freeacre said...

P.S.
Just in case you have not seen the latest from the new asteroid searching telescopic satellites. Watch THIS to the end.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/27/asteroid-video-time-lapse_n_696883.html

Then you will get where I am coming from in terms of looking for the asteroid...

Athanasor said...

Most of us know that the underlying problem is the exponential growth of stupidity. That 5 million outraged citizens did not hit the streets when the Supreme Court took jurisdiction of the Florida election process showed me that WE are screwed.

There is no slowing down the inevitable decline, so prepare yourselves as best you can ( you and yours are a great example ).

Whatever the tipping point is will come whether society realizes it or not.

Publius said...

Well, I'm a GenXer. I understand (some) of what is going on.
My goal is to opt-out, live in a small, out-of-the-way place (kind of like you are doing!), and wait out the collapse of the evil overlords. They really do feed off of our pain, misery, and servitude.
One big problem in my plan: my wife ain't on-board. She just finished grad school, and was eager to join the corporatocracy. She thought that my theories were the ravings of a mad-husband.
Now she's looking for a job, and I already see the fear and stress on her face.

I have a beautiful, curious, 4-year old son. He just wants to live in nature and explore the world.
I may just have to get on the path myself, and hope they follow.
I really do not know.

RW said...

Have you ever really read about the "framers" of the so called constitution?

Go to Dublinmicks blog and learn that this so called democracy has been a con job to disguise a prison designed and built for slavery since its inception.

Oh silly me, I forgot that all those wealthy owners of human beings decided to turn over a new leaf and create the land of the free. . .

Who needs to import slaves from africa when people from europe would take up the yolk and plow the fields etc motivated by some lie that was spread to attract US here?

The best take I've found on WRH can be found here:

http://www.sidis.net/TSContents.htm

So when was it a good start?

If you read the document carefully you can get a grip on when the psychopathic influence took hold of the colonies.

In my opinion, anyone who still believes the propoganda that perpetuates this lie is a flat earther.

I watched Ashland get brainwashed by the Obamunist lie just two or three years ago.

Folks, this is where so called "educated" liberals congregate.

We've got a loooooong way to go.

murph said...

Athanasor,

"Exponential growth of stupidity" Yeh, It sure seems that way, at least at times, and then you run into really thoughtful people that are knowledgeable. What is that figure? hmmm 7% of a population can change the paradigm?

Publius,

What is it your wife is fearing? Not getting a job?

RW

Yup, I've read a bunch, over time, on the founders of the constitution. What they said and wrote and commentary on it.

I agree that they were the more wealthy component of the colonies and owned land and slaves they didn't want to give up. I think we might have to be a bit careful about judging motivations and actions from our perspectives and apply it to 300 year ago societies. Using our present judgment on such things has led to a whole bunch of mistaken assumptions about past societies. Remember Margret Mead? And the Russian experiments and conclusions on causes of biological change over time (natural selectivity)? I do the judging also, but have to remind myself that concepts do change on some issues over time. While the human chattel of European aristocracy was modified a lot by our constitution, it was not eliminated.

That Sidis site is interesting. Have been there a couple of other times. I really need to take the time to read more of what the site has to say.

I agree with you that the framers of the constitution had their own interests included in it's language. An imperfect document at best. But, it was better than the other systems out there in Europe. And, many of the anarchistic concepts of the Indian tribes was incorporated in it.

Depending on whether you figure humans are capable of giant leaps in ideological changes and behavior quickly or not, or whether humans make small baby steps over long periods of time will influence your conclusions. You will also be influenced by how much you think humans are hard wired into certain behaviors and attitudes. It appears to me that the ideology behind the constitution had some good points to it, but it sure developed into something quite different I think.

Did you read that Joe Bageant article?

You seemed to express disdain for liberals in your comment. I have disdain for them also, but maybe for different reasons. I also get pretty worked up over the conservative BS too.

Got enough time to expand on your perspective?

murph said...

Athanasor,

"Exponential growth of stupidity" Yeh, It sure seems that way, at least at times, and then you run into really thoughtful people that are knowledgeable. What is that figure? hmmm 7% of a population can change the paradigm?

Publius,

What is it your wife is fearing? Not getting a job?

RW

Yup, I've read a bunch, over time, on the founders of the constitution. What they said and wrote and commentary on it.

I agree that they were the more wealthy component of the colonies and owned land and slaves they didn't want to give up. I think we might have to be a bit careful about judging motivations and actions from our perspectives and apply it to 300 year ago societies. Using our present judgment on such things has led to a whole bunch of mistaken assumptions about past societies. Remember Margret Mead? And the Russian experiments and conclusions on causes of biological change over time (natural selectivity)? I do the judging also, but have to remind myself that concepts do change on some issues over time. While the human chattel of European aristocracy was modified a lot by our constitution, it was not eliminated.

That Sidis site is interesting. Have been there a couple of other times. I really need to take the time to read more of what the site has to say.

I agree with you that the framers of the constitution had their own interests included in it's language. An imperfect document at best. But, it was better than the other systems out there in Europe. And, many of the anarchistic concepts of the Indian tribes was incorporated in it.

Depending on whether you figure humans are capable of giant leaps in ideological changes and behavior quickly or not, or whether humans make small baby steps over long periods of time will influence your conclusions. You will also be influenced by how much you think humans are hard wired into certain behaviors and attitudes. It appears to me that the ideology behind the constitution had some good points to it, but it sure developed into something quite different I think.

Did you read that Joe Bageant article?

You seemed to express disdain for liberals in your comment. I have disdain for them also, but maybe for different reasons. I also get pretty worked up over the conservative BS too.

Got enough time to expand on your perspective?

murph said...

Athanasor,

"Exponential growth of stupidity" Yeh, It sure seems that way, at least at times, and then you run into really thoughtful people that are knowledgeable. What is that figure? hmmm 7% of a population can change the paradigm?

Publius,

What is it your wife is fearing? Not getting a job?

murph said...

RW

Yup, I've read a bunch, over time, on the founders of the constitution. What they said and wrote and commentary on it.

I agree that they were the more wealthy component of the colonies and owned land and slaves they didn't want to give up. I think we might have to be a bit careful about judging motivations and actions from our perspectives and apply it to 300 year ago societies. Using our present judgment on such things has led to a whole bunch of mistaken assumptions about past societies. Remember Margret Mead? And the Russian experiments and conclusions on causes of biological change over time (natural selectivity)? I do the judging also, but have to remind myself that concepts do change on some issues over time. While the human chattel of European aristocracy was modified a lot by our constitution, it was not eliminated.

That Sidis site is interesting. Have been there a couple of other times. I really need to take the time to read more of what the site has to say.

I agree with you that the framers of the constitution had their own interests included in it's language. An imperfect document at best. But, it was better than the other systems out there in Europe. And, many of the anarchistic concepts of the Indian tribes was incorporated in it.

Depending on whether you figure humans are capable of giant leaps in ideological changes and behavior quickly or not, or whether humans make small baby steps over long periods of time will influence your conclusions. You will also be influenced by how much you think humans are hard wired into certain behaviors and attitudes. It appears to me that the ideology behind the constitution had some good points to it, but it sure developed into something quite different I think.

Did you read that Joe Bageant article?

You seemed to express disdain for liberals in your comment. I have disdain for them also, but maybe for different reasons. I also get pretty worked up over the conservative BS too.

Got enough time to expand on your perspective?

freeacre said...

Athanasor - nice to hear from you. Plenty of room at the Campfire for new voices.
RW - that's a stunning document. Will take some time to read it. Thanks!
Publius - I'm not advising you what to do, just sharing some thoughts with you, since I have about thirty years on ya, probably. What I have noted is that people's personal power is diminished as their word is broken, promises not kept, and vows not adhered to.
It might be good to review what exactly you vowed when you got married and then the two of you brought a child into the world. I assume it included some form of "love, honor, and cherish each other as long as you both shall live." That, then, becomes the covenant you have with each other and also should form the firmament upon which your child's life will develop. I know this is politically incorrect nowadays, but in my observation, I see the damage done when those vows are not kept. This becomes a karmic commitment in my opinion. No getting out of it, even with divorce. The relationship always continues even if it is a broken one.
If the two of you can take back your strengths and find a way to keep your vows, it will most probably lead to helping each other become all that each of you can be. You could support her in her quest for a career, if that is what she decides she needs. She could help you to fulfill your desire to be a "house husband," and take care of the home and hearth (and garden, and livestock, emergency preparedness, or whatever). You don't have to agree on everything. You just need to agree that the paramount obligation is to rear your child to the best of your abilities. whatever they are. Sounds like between the two of you, your talents are considerable.
When it's all over, and you have strengthened each other and kept your words, you will have a body of work that you can be proud of and your son will be grateful for. I know it aint' easy, but karmic relationships never are. They bring lessons to be learned, cleverly designed - just for you.
Well, that's my take on it. You, of course, must make your own path. I wish you the best.

lucretiasheart said...

Being smack dab in the exact middle of Generation X (those age 30 to 50 currently, and I'm 40) I can say that though I grew up hearing about the grand rebel exploits of the Baby Boomers, I also saw that by far most of them caved to become Yuppie consumerists in the end. So much for heroic counter-cultural revolutions that Change the World.

Like most Gen-Xers, I am a Realist with a dark and cynical bent. I would LOVE to believe in "hope and change" but just look at what happens if you invest yourself in such fantasies? Abject disappointment EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

I have no intention of ever joining a protest. I don't expect it to matter, and I never have-- EVER in my life. I don't think my one little head bopping around with a sign along with other little heads is going to matter. I vote-- but I can see that beyond NOT voting for incumbents and avoiding candidates for either party (Red, Blue-- just costumes for the same Royal Purple Party of Corporatism) there is little I can do.

Baby Boomers like to think in terms of "group-think" and so that whole "together we can do it" makes sense to them. My generation was abandoned by the one before us culturally and often socially, and we learned it was "every man and/or woman for him/herself." Joining a team, a party, a movement, a side- whatever never helped us like it helped the Boomers with the anti-war rallies and civil rights and such. Our causes weren't about changing the world, but only about survival. We cared about much smaller things like having decent jobs and keeping our freedom and having some security for the future-- all the things we watched steadily disappearing during the course of our lives while our parents and grandparents ignored us and shrugged. The really bad stuff would happen to US, not to THEM, so why should they care? Answer: they didn't.

Anonymous said...

Lucretiasheart here~~
(Your site won't let me through to finish under livejournal i.d.)

I remember that as far back as my teens in the 80s all my most intelligent peers agreed with me that we would never see the benefits of Social Security or many other entitlements the older generations take for granted. It would have to be gone by the time we could use it-- if the U.S. was even around in the same capacity by then.

We could see the clock was ticking and time for us was running out.

I am a cynic and a realist. I don't count on groupthink to save me. I am, bit by bit, preparing to hunker down and ride the slide as best I can. Already I've avoided some bad falls because I saw things coming years before they hit.

I know we're screwed. People in their 40s, 30s and 20s know we're screwed. We pretend sometimes that we're not and find pleasing distractions-- but in quiet moments of intimate conversation we'll admit to the reality of what's coming to one another. We know however that the sacrifice required to turn things around is something that will NEVER be agreed to-- because it would require the older generations in power to give up their entitlements for our sake and you know that's just NOT going to happen!

Protest together that our rights are going away? No thanks. Gen Xers are believers in discretion, and playing the game of having 2 lives- the one where we pretend not to care, and the other where we do and are gearing up for really deep bad shit. Many in older generations believe the "distraction life" for the ONLY one, and that's a good thing as far as we're concerned. You can hide in the "noise." You keep your options open when you pretend not to care enough to take a side.

The truth is we don't believe that groupthink mass protests will save us. The corruption is too deep and too prevalent for that now. We hide in plain sight and watch and wait for what's coming next. What's going on now and what's coming involve the mass manipulation of groupthink to meet nefarious agendas, so the safest option is to opt out of groupthink altogether. Is it grass roots or astro turf? I'll take the rocky road and avoid the danger of being wrong, thank you very much.

It's difficult to convey the contempt with which my generation and the ones after regard mass protests. Let me say that word again, because I think it's important this is understood-- "CONTEMPT." There is almost a hatred for even the attempt to change things by whining about it like children to the big, powerful, authorities. I admit I share this attitude. I sneer when I see protests-- even when I agree with protesters! I think it's an embarrassing exercise in futility, and I feel pity for those who actually think marching and chanting and carrying signs will even begin to make a difference.

I mean no disrespect to those older generations here who have engaged in protests in the past. Decades ago it worked for a while. You had an advantage though. Boomers were protesting to the Great Generation-- a group that apparently, for all their faults, LISTENED at least sometimes a little bit. It made a difference.

But the Boomers in charge of things NOW? DO NOT LISTEN. The corruption has become too comfortable, the manipulation of apathy in the populace too entrenched. We see the truth of our helplessness.

Now do you see why Gen Xers are such cynical individualists? We're getting ready to die at a hell of a younger age than you are. I'm not joking. Gen Xers don't expect to have the opportunity to grow old.

lucretiasheart said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
lucretiasheart said...

Whoops. Sorry for multiple post-- glitchy tonight!

Okay-- last part and I swear I'm done and out of your hair for a while!

It's difficult to convey the contempt with which my generation and the ones after regard mass protests. Let me say that word again, because I think it's important this is understood-- "CONTEMPT." There is almost a hatred for even the attempt to change things by whining about it like children to the big, powerful, authorities. I admit I share this attitude. I sneer when I see protests-- even when I agree with protesters! I think it's an embarrassing exercise in futility, and I feel pity for those who actually think marching and chanting and carrying signs will even begin to make a difference.

I mean no disrespect to those older generations here who have engaged in protests in the past. Decades ago it worked for a while. You had an advantage though. Boomers were protesting to the Great Generation-- a group that apparently, for all their faults, LISTENED at least sometimes a little bit. It made a difference.

But the Boomers in charge of things NOW? DO NOT LISTEN. The corruption has become too comfortable, the manipulation of apathy in the populace too entrenched. We see the truth of our helplessness.

Now do you see why Gen Xers are such cynical individualists? We're getting ready to die at a hell of a younger age than you are. I'm not joking. Gen Xers don't expect to have the opportunity to grow old.

Anonymous said...

great post. especially for those of us old enuf to have been around back then to live it and still around to see what became of it. which is to say... nothing. just another form of same-o same-o. which leads me to comment on this...

"I think we might have to be a bit careful about judging motivations and actions from our perspectives and apply it to 300 year ago societies"

forgive me zooming in on that stmt murph but, as its been said many times, what goes 'round comes 'round. again. and again. and again. and....

some call this reincarnation. i prefer to call it re-enactment. argument can and is forwarded that progress has been made toward change. some even go so far as to call it evolution. BUT, i ask, why then do we keep running into new forms of the same-o? pick most anything and i can find a place where it played out in the past. form changes. names/characters change. details change. story lines change. even to the point of making it hard to recognize consistency with history. but i guanartee you its there. 'it' being those underlying energetic dynamics from which the plot plays out which are still living in the past. if we're ever going to change the ending we have to start at the beginning where those dynamics were put into place. its called original cause... p

Dave Eriqat said...

What people tepidly began to see back in the '60s and '70s was a creeping pathocracy overcoming our society. And while there was much protest, as you point out, not much came of it. The reason is that while the protesters were large in number, they were not aware of what they were protesting against, nor were they particularly well organized. Their foes, on the other hand, were small in number and keenly focused on their goals. It’s virtually impossible for a ragtag, disorganized group, no matter how large, to overcome a well organized – even if small – group that has clear, focused objectives. Look at Iraq and Afghanistan. The best those ragtag fighters, despite their greater numbers and greater incentive to fight than pampered American baby boomers and their progeny, have been able to achieve is a stalemate against a focused, well organized foe.

Sadly, the psychopathic scum that we didn’t realize we were recoiling against way back then have “won,” for the time being. Their policies have largely been instituted and worse, their “philosophy” of evil has percolated down through the layers of society, right down to the policemen on the street who derive so much pleasure from torturing citizens.

There is little we can do about it collectively, especially since the majority of the population has been deliberately dumbed down and drugged into a stupor, but we can react to this madness individually by not participating in it to the extent possible. Eventually the madness will burn itself out, probably bringing a lot of destruction and death with its demise. By withdrawing our support, “checking out” of the system as much as possible, we can hasten its demise. With any luck the actions taken by a few of us will set a good example for others to mimic.

Dave - Erstwhile Urban Wanderer

Anonymous said...

athanansor... welcome. i'd guess you didn't come here for dear abby. but i wnat to add to FA's advice. karma is real and FA's words in that respect are wise. however, prob might be you guys have come to a point where one or the other or both are no longer in alignment with them as you were when they were put into place. this is not to say you should therefore go seperate ways. as FA points out, the agreements remain in place either way. there are alternatives that involve recanting or modifying the original vow or vows or certain aspects of them. but this needs to be done with both parties on the same page about it and in agreement with the changes. and both mentally and emotionally on the part of both parties. and best done formally. iow, with some form of ceremony involved. that need only involve the two of you. light a candle acknowledging the sacredness and go for it.

the biggest prob with the past is we think we can't change it. or we think since its the past it no longer applies. such judgements empower karma. change, real change on energetic levels, is possible. else what i said in the comment above re original cause would be bullshit. liz and i do this periodically. we review our vows to determine if we're still mentally and emotionally in alignment with the agreements and promises we made to each other. we set the stage for this with our original vows by including a caveat. how? it went like this.... "i promise to yadda yadda yadda. but if i don't, yadda yadda yadda." fundamental to this was a shared desire for honesty. to be brutally honest both with self and the other. i can't tell you how many came to us afterwards to say, "damn, i sure wish we had done something like that when we got married!" but that caveat need not to have been a part of the original vows. we included it because we wanted to acknowledge it. and honestly, what we've always found is that we're each in our own ways still aligned with the underlying desires, vision and mission stmt. where probs arise is in the form in which it all plays out as time passes and circumstances arise. doing this has never failed to strengthen our relationship in the end and brought us closer together as a team. but i can assure you, during the process it can look and feel as if we're from two different planets! the secret is to keep moving through it and not base decisions based on frozen points of view.

and oh ya, probably the most important promise we made to each other? we promised to release the other if it ever came to that. by that i mean completly, unconditionally. such goes far beyond lip service and well could be something requiring continual processing. in fact, we seek for this even together based on the fundamental idea: if you love someone, set them free. iow, my wish for her is for her to be her.

best to you and yours... p

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Anonymous said...

the blogger gremlin raises its ugly head again! sorry 4 the duplications. murph, fa... can you guys delete? thx... p

Anonymous said...

Thanks Murph and Freeacre for responding to my comment. It seems to have generated interesting observations and comments. I to am not advocating protest in the sense of as it were in the 60's and 70's. Protest can and does take many forms and this site and most of the people here are doing that now.

The mature person is the student of the mind, the one that understands that reality happens from the inside out. What are we projecting? Which brings me back to the comments about the young people and what they project and that can be seen by looking at what they follow.

The only change that can take place in this life is the change we make in ourselves.

There is no perfect world. There never will be. There is only the valiant attempt of each person to live spiritually in a world where spirituality is almost impossible.

As we know the thoughts and comments of genxers and y's too. will change as they get older and they will realize as we do that there's no blame or denial in taking total responsibility for one's self

Scrap Wood

freeacre said...

Wow! Great posts! Worth reading twice, but I will delete the extras once I get my shit together. Need more coffee first.

Guess murph hit a nerve with this one, eh? Yes, p, the same struggles continue through time. The Salem witch trials, the buffalo destroyed, the measles infested blankets given to the First People, the outright slavery, genocide, war and profiteering, destruction of the land and animals, drug addiction (just another form of slavery and slavers)... it just continues through time. Don't know why it comes as a surprise. I guess I must be part moron.
Concepts such as liberty, love, honor, justice, equality, care for the world, are becoming like scarce treasures to be protected if possible.Wish we had a vault for those energies. I guess we have to "be the vault."

Lucretia, Dave, et al - I share your outrage. I welcome it. Anger can be beautiful.

Jon said...

Us "peasants" might not be ale to afford gold, but we can afford seed. This was my first season to collect seeds and I found the experience very rewarding and easy (with a little time). It truly is a bank of the Future.

Murph and FreeAcre, I doubt you remember, but I contacted you last year before I went fishing in AK. No luck with the big score and land purchase, but I learned a lot of mechanical skills and am still honing my self. You guys are an inspiration.

Love the comment about two identities. My close collapse friends call it chameleonism. Our social face pretending business is usual and our true self preparing and watching.

The camp fire is warm.
Carry the fire.

Anonymous said...

Hey great picture of you Murph also It's Mario Savio and if anyone is interested here is a link to a web site. Interesting man and dedicated to free speech and equality. Again it's not about mob protest. It is about individual responsible action.

http://www.savio.org/who_was_mario.html

Scrap

freeacre said...

I am breathless at the comments today. Welcome back, Jon. Good for you, saving seeds! I liked Lucretia's phrase "ride the slide." I'll have to remember that one. Ha!

Anonymous said...

I’m wondering if any of you had an experience like mine this morning.

A religious couple came to my door. (How is that you can always tell they’re pushing some religion before they even open their mouths?) The woman was holding a tract of some sort -- I didn’t ask for it. She started out by saying people were upset with Obama and waited for me to comment. I didn’t but should have told her I thought he was doing what he had to to keep from getting killed by TPTB. That might have stopped her spiel, but since I didn’t voice an opinion, she went on that she had good news -- they were working on a much better government -- world-wide ruling system. That did get a response from me. I told her I thought it was a terrible idea. She said, “Oh, but it’ll be run by God.”

I should have said I was sorry she was so gullible as to believe such an idea, but I didn’t. Instead, I just said I didn’t believe in her god.

Now I’m wondering how far along this particular scheme has gotten -- how many people/churches/organizations have been taken in by an idiocy that starts with being upset with Obama? Will this gain enough traction to do anything more than add to the noise? Or will it be another Jamestown?

I’m with freeacre -- I’m rooting for an asteroid. Soon.

Caroline

Anonymous said...

athanasor and publius... sorry for getting you 2 mixed up this morn. my 6:24 words meant for publius as i'm sure were FA's.





"Have you ever really read about the "framers" of the so called constitution?"

RW... me best shot at it lately is carl sandburg's epic 4 vol set, 'lincoln, the war years'. this following his 2 vol, 'lincoln, the prarie years'. ya, a time beyond the framers' time. but its mostly all there just the same if one read's between the lines. and between the words even. and many words there are woven together as only few such as sandburg can weave. combined the 6 total somewhere near 3600 pages. at about 550 words per page that nears a couple million words to read between.

as to your links... well, mick rocks! TS? looks exactly like what i been lookin for. thx, i'm divin' in.






"The only change that can take place in this life is the change we make in ourselves."

SW... exactly!





"be the vault."

FA... exactly!






"...playing the game of having 2 lives- the one where we pretend not to care, and the other where we do..."

L'sH... exactly! some of us old farts are right there with you. for me it started at 5 when i excommunicated myself from the catholic church. so i played the same game albeit the other way 'round. pretending to care. pertending to not object. pretending to be a good alter boy and a good son. pretending to be st. thomas. survival demanded it.

that set the stage for being able to do the same later. later being after high school and leaving home to go live in the streets of the 60's and the accompanying peer pressure. survival demanded it.

"Boomers in charge of things NOW? DO NOT LISTEN." ya know, its really interesting. some of those same in-charge boomers of today were in the streets leading and/or participating in those protests 50 years ago. but then, you already figured that out. guess what got em? lotta factors involved of course but one in particular is mixed in the mortar. in a word? guilt!! luved yer comments darlin and snapshot into your gen. thx. among other things i share your cynicism for similar reason. some young buck told me it comes w/gettin old. if thats the case i got old young.

but as for hope, i found some midst the hopelessness. its at the bottom of the slide. hope you do too... p

Anonymous said...

L'sH... one more thing about that hope... i ain't saying what it is but i'll give ya a hint. it has to do w/entitlement. but not the sort you were talkin about... p

freeacre said...

Carolyn,
Yikes! "...a world wide government run by God!" Shit, they might as well be the Taliban. Wish they would come to our house! HA!

Anonymous said...

Know what you're talk'in about, Publius. The wifeepoo just got her BFA last year and is pretty much only interested in art, art and art. Teaches watercolor classes, acrylic classes, paints constantly and thinks that she's informed after listening to NPR for about 30 minutes -a WEEK. She actually believes Obama is a good president! Bloody HELL! I used to try and enlighten her to information NOT on NPR, but I just gave up. She considers me a total conspiracy theory nut-job,
-but in a good way. Ok, ya'll ever see the movie, "Sneakers' with Robert Redford? Everytime Dan Akroid opens his mouth spewing conspricy theories, she says, "That's YOU!" Haa haahaa, yeah, what ever. So, since she's immune to my rants, YOU ALL have to hear it! HA!

Naw, I'll keep it to a minimum. I figure once TSHTF, she's say, "Now what were you talking about before?"

Protests are definitely exercises in futility. I mean, if Cindy Shehan can't get an audience and gets arrested a couple dozen times trying to talk to her congresscritters and when there was no media coverage whatsoever of vets spilling their guts out at the recent "Winter Soldiers" conference/seminars, man, nothing's gonna do any good.
Oh, and the kids today, well, I work at the university here and each day I walk to my building from the parking lot (@ half mile) I encounter students totally integrated into their gadgets. Like it's a fifth appendedge or something. Oh, and when it snows, I can count on seeing a least a half dozen students walking the half mile or so, dressed in t-shirts, shorts and flip-flops. Their clue-bags are totally empty. So I say....
We
are
totally
dooomed!

-and when in the hell is this asteroid com'in?! Hurry it up already!

Later -

-Randy

RW said...

I try hard not to embrace or lug around a particular perspective, it clouds my observations to place filters before me. (as if I didn't have enough already)..

I just happened to find this book particularly interesting:

http://cyberjournal.org/authors/fresia/

Reading it compelled me to pose the question, "So when was everything good with this country?"

If such is in fact the core, the basis, the foundation upon which this structure is built, what good was it ever?

I mostly observe that people believe in and parrot nonsense because it gives them a sense of social security. 99% of people honestly act as if they would die of loneliness long before dying of thirst.

This insecurity fueled by core suffering of existential sorrow due to our condition as slaves is played upon by the psycopathic puppet masters.

So, whats your property tax freedude?

YES, those hollywood pimps. THEM!

In a nuts hell that's the only possible perspective that affords me any sanity as I watch gen y shuffle along head down tapping away on some chinese junk to ease their pain.

God BLESS us all.

murph said...

RW,

I read the link you posted
http://cyberjournal.org/authors/fresia/

I understand where you were coming from concerning the constitution now. From previous information I have picked up and opinion on that information and my own thinking on it, there is very much valid stuff there.

It would take me a couple of years to dive into all his references and check out all the assertions. It would appear to me that much of that specific information is dependent on few resources, which one could question their validity. If the author is indeed steeped in all of his references, he took a damned long time reading them and compiling notes for this book of his.

Got to admit it is interesting reading and provokes some interesting conclusions. I did learn some interesting data on many of the framers of the constitution. Mostly a bunch of rich white guys deciding the fate of a country. Some of the pre-revolutionary war period I did not know.

A good read and I thank you for the link.

Anonymous said...

A 12 step program. Part one. Six baby steps.

1. "Be the change you want to see in the world". Don't start movements or seek followers, but help those who ask for help.

2. Turn off the TV. Stop listening to BS. Everything on TV has a control agenda. Get your news on the web and teach your kids to safely do the same

3. Home school. Don't let them brainwash your kids. It would work better if neighborhood schools controlled (and paid for)by parents could be established.

4. "Neither a borrower nor a lender be". Good advice then, better now. NO bank accounts, No credit cards, even our so-called "money" is notes paying interest to the "powers that be". Avoid feeding the beast to the extent possible and work to increase the possibility of avoidance. Barter where possible.

5. Don't vote for their political parties. Do not be angry with the polititians. Most all that have reached national prominence have been co-opted by the powers. A few serve them willingly, the rest have been blackmailed, threatened or had their families threatened; they have been reduced to privileged puppets.

6. Do not confront the powers, struggle grows their power. Violent struggle proves they are needed. Avoid violence. When they initiate violence document it without attracting attention, then put it on the web. If they take down the web seek other means.

Dave Eriqat said...

September 1 Anonymous,

You've captured the essence of what I mean when I say, "check out" of the system.

I don't have credit cards or debt; I don't vote and have not for the past 20 years (only a fool continues playing a rigged game); I don't try to convert people (they have to find enlightenment for themselves), but I am willing to help people looking for help or advice; if I had children I'd definitely home school them; I'm planning to grow as much of my own food as possible and store the excess.

We cannot change the system by working with the system. The system is too far gone to salvage. All we can do is look after our own lives and let the system kill itself, which it's doing splendidly.

I ask people, what is there about our present system that's worth saving anyway? I can't think of a thing.

Dave - Erstwhile Urban Wanderer

RAS said...

Good post murph and fa. Most of the younger generation knows we're screwed, but we also know we can't fix it by protesting or open rebellion. Some of us are dropping out, others are just struggling to get by.

I think so many young people are glued to the electronic distractions because they are the only escape mechanism the kids have. Think about it. You see no hope for the future, no way to change things, no way to make things better for yourself, so what do you do? I've had teens tell me the time they spend on the game system or listening to music is the only time when the world is all right -when no one is yelling at them, nothing is going wrong, and even that they aren't afraid.

Dave, we're trying to check out of the system, but it's hard. Money, money, money is the problem. We've got land now, but nothing out there to live in but an old bus we're using as a camper. No money to build a house, no money to live on if we move out there, and if we did, we'd have to have someway of making the (extremely small) land payments.

Then there's health insurance. It's not a big deal until you break a leg and end up losing everything.

Has anybody seen the news about the incident at the Discovery Channel yesterday? That guy was pretty messed in the head. Cryptogon posted his agenda, and wow. No matter what you want you should know you won't get it by dynamite and hostages.

RAS said...

Oh, I almost forgot.

I finally got the website for my business up and running. I don't have all my products on there yet (though I should by Monday or so) but it's pretty cool nonetheless.
http://rebeccaannscreations.com/

Anonymous said...

We must all deal with collapse in our own way. One thing I would add to the list above is to not allow elements of 'the bad trip' to overwhelm your consciousness, and drive us into a catatonic cocoon for refuge.

Be aware of who's fucking you, and how. Simply knowing what's going on is an act of protest. To be informed and to object, on a personal level, to the fraud and deceit we've been conditioned to expect as 'normal' is in itself a basic form of protest.

Just because it happens doesn't mean we agree or approve. Rejecting what's wrong is how we preserve a sense of good and evil.
And it's important to acknowledge the perceived difference on both a personal and societal level.

The criminally insane are at the controls. Pretending everything's okay and hoping for 'good sailing' seems a poor option, to me. Most of us here at the campfire are beyond this particular niche of naivete in our thinking, but we're few, and isolated.

The majority backs the status quo, out of fear, or sloth, perhaps a mix of both. And so spaceship Earth careens on,
guided by the spiritually bankrupt who lust for and drink up the power we cede them, yet can never get enough, drooling and spluttering their mantra of "Materialism!", all the while, in the glass above the panel of flashing lights and warning buzzers, the pocked surface of a dead stone grows into focus...

-rockpicker

freeacre said...

Have you guys seen Raw Story today? Here's a link:
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/0901/german-report-peak-oil-collapse-democracy/

It is reporting a story from a mainline paper in Germany that says Peak Oil either is here or will be this year, and that it could lead to the collapse of economies and destruction of governments, war, etc. TEOTWAWKI, in other words.

Holy Shit! It is so disorienting when a MSM outlet reports something that we have been saying and living by for years... almost makes me not believe it just because they are saying it.

And now there is a second oil rig that seems to be on fire and the crew was floating in the ocean.

While I'm at it, you might want to read Urban Survival, too. Some significant hits on the woo-woo reports....anybody else feel major tension in the air? By evening, I have no neck left.

wv: mytewigi As in "I feel myte wigi."

Anonymous said...

From that Raw Story article -"possibly lead to mass-scale upheaval within the next 15 to 30 years." What?! 15 - 30 years?! You mean to tell me that I have to wait TAHT long for Murika to completely circle the drain?

Crap.

-Randy

Anonymous said...

Some great posts here gang, I totally agree with disengaging from the system as much as possible, this will be the 6th year I have managed to earn less than the tax threshold :) at 45 yo I share lots of feelings expressed here.

on that "upheaval within the next 15 to 30 years" thing... We're already there! It started for real in 2000 for me with the dotcom boom/bust, but looking back, the policies that lead to this (deregulating finance) were put in place much earlier, at least as far back as the 70's.

I think TBTB were expecting the peak oil crunch back then (2000ish) from the original Hubbert numbers, the deepwater finds pushed the actual peak crunch back a few years more than was expected IMO. Reading TOD recently, the global supply/demand crunch looks like it will come in the 3rd qtr 2011.

Gamedog

Anonymous said...

This looks like it might be worth going to the movies for.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2DRm5ES-uA&feature=player_embedded

-rp

freeacre said...

Wow! Here's a stunning speech by Chris Hedges that you can watch right now.
http://www.truthdig.com/avbooth/item/chris_hedges_on_moral_courage_20100901/

Boy, Howdy. He said a mouthful. Thanks to Rockpicker for turning us on to this.

Anonymous said...

Freeacre;

Thanks for putting up that link to the Chris Hedges speech. It is certainly timely, and pertinent to this discussion, as it speaks to the importance of resistance to the tyranny of the corporate state, and gives examples of what has happened in the past when people have allowed despair and perceived powerlessness to overwhelm them and seek refuge in isolation.

Quoting philosopher Theodor Adorno, Hedges states: "The exclusive preoccupation with personal concerns, and indifference to the suffering of others, beyond the self-identified group, is what ultimately made fascism, and the holocaust, possible. The inability to identify with others was unquestionably the most important psychological condition for the fact that something like Auschwitz could have occurred in the midst of more or less civilized and innocent people."

He says, "no act of resistance is useless," and encourages us to adopt a long view for expected results. In fact, he says, we should prepare ourselves to not see radical change within our lifetimes. And he goes on to say that the development of nurturing, self-sustaining communities will be necessary to keep alive this tenuous flame of rebellion.

I strongly urge everyone to take time to view this lecture, digest it slowly and pass it along.

-rockpicker

Anonymous said...

A quote from a link Belgium posted at the end of the previous post, regarding the Gulf oil disaster:

"In fact, the US Federal Government, a full-blown accomplice, has enabled BP - the perpetrator of a Crime against Humanity, a Crime against the Planet, a Crime against a Nation (USA), a Crime against a Major Body of Water - to completely control its own crime scene. What we have, therefore, are psychopaths, who are in control of the US Government, giving powers to criminally insane sociopaths who are in control of the corporate entity known as BP. Such powers both permit and encourage the criminals to tell (and in many cases order) the innumerable victims of these many crimes, how to clean up the criminal´s own crime scene."

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/214284-Have-BP-and-the-US-Psychopathic-Government-Perpetrated-Yet-Another-Fraud-Against-We-the-People-

Thanks, Belgium

-rp

stoney13 said...

They're just out there waiting for us to swallow the hook! The whole "MORE! MORE! MORE!" thing is about as clear as glass! This generation is known as "Generation Me"! They don't even know what they want yet, but they want more of it! They buy all the hype! Every bit of it! All the buzzwords! Every crumb of truth wrapped in ten layers of lies, and amplified ten thousand time! The scary thing is, THEY KNOW IT'S SHIT!! They know it for what it is, and they STILL buy all the hype! Every glitzy, gitzy tacky, wacky, tweaky, freaky, sick, and stupid product must be acquired NOW!!! Surely your child will be forever scarred if the sun goes down on their fragile beings without these wondrous product inside your house! Why are you just sitting there? GO BUY THEM NOW!!!!!

All life seems to be about for them, is to be happy, healthy, hive people! Falling over themselves to have a finer piece of the have than their neighbors, and hanging more shit in it! There is nothing we can do to help these people. I'm sorry, but there just isn't

stoney13 said...

Looks like they're over at Google with their office pets, fighting and having sex again, eh Mr. P? ^_^

Hotspringswizard said...

Boy you all have been quite busy while I have been taking in healthy gulps of Playa Dust in the Black Rock Desert. On Monday last week, the first day of the Burning Man event a big storm rolled in over the mountains to the north and when it was done and moving on a double rainbow appeared so bright and vivid you almost felt you could reach out and grab it. This appeared rather suddenly as the sun broke through the waning storm and I'm not kidding you at all, a giant roar of approval literally rose out of the thousands of Burners in Black Rock City. It was a perfect beginning for BM 2010!

Had a number of great conversations with those camping near me on general collapse issues. Look forward to getting the time soon to catch up with all of your thoughts here :-)

Anonymous said...

stoney... been in the boonies for several daz. fill me in. thx... p

Anonymous said...

An excerpt from Kunstler's "In the Headlights" article on LATOC yesterday:

"...I voted for Barack Obama. I don't know about you, but I'm a tad disappointed in how things turned out with him. These days he makes Millard Fillmore look like Frederick the Great. His speech last week on Iraq and, incidentally, economic matters, was such a puffery of hollow platitudes that I was a little surprised he didn't go up in a vapor at the end of it like a genie and retreat inside his desk lamp in a little trail of steam. Nobody can figure out why he keeps the same krewe of viziers at his elbow after all these months of failure to engage with reality. The voters were expecting a champion and got a Labradoodle instead..."

-rp

stoney13 said...

Mr. P, remember when I had the multiple post thing happen to me? I think its a problem on Bloggers end? I put forth the opinion that the office pets at Google were fighting or having sex. Then I suggested that the employees at Google were fighting and having sex. Then that half the office pets, and employees at Google were fighting and the other half were having sex. Their work was obviously suffering for it.

But of course you must realize that in America we pay a man $100,000.00 plus a year to load chickens into an air cannon and shoot airplanes! Such scenarios are to be expected, and as such, easily forgotten! Don't sweat it!

Anonymous said...

Stoney,

Maybe those Google employees were busy accessing child porn sites, like their mentors at DoD.

-rp

freeacre said...

Howdy, Troutclan. Hope everybody had a good Labor Day, despite the terminal condition of labor, unemployment and debt servitude experienced by the working class. It seems that the Republicans have come up with an answer to the social security crunch now that the money has been spent on everything else - just work until you are 70 or die first. Seems like they can "work" in Congress until they are a hundred, since they have clerks and assistants and only have to show up for meetings and lunches and bribe fests which is not much of a strain. I look around and all I see are working class people who are all crippled up.
Speaking of shitty health care and being crippled up, I went to a new health care clinic that was supposed to help people who have no health insurance. They charge me $25 for my first visit, which I thought was very reasonable. Then they ordered a blood test and an X ray of my back. Then they bait and switched me, and suffice it to say that it all ended up costing me $688!! And I'm supposed to go back on the 22nd for a follow-up visit. And, they have not done anything for my back, which was what I went in for. I got a blood test for $407 and the first office visit was $197! I say, "What?? I thought the first appt. was $25." They go, "Well, no, you had not filled out the paperwork yet." I say,"Well, of course not, it was my FIRST VISIT" Yadayadayada...
I usually pay off everything all at once, but this time, since all hell is supposed to break out in Nov. with a nuke or somesuch big disaster, I think I'll pay them $20 a pop and see if the lights go out before then, or the money is so devalued that it won't matter.... the slime.
I'm furious.

Anonymous said...

-or a meteroite. There was a big one that hit somewheres in Columbia that made a 300 foot crater. And, I've read that there's a couple of big asteroids coming purdy darn close to the planet in the next few days. Maybe one or both will come REALLY close. Like, say EXTREMELY close to D.C (District of Criminals) or Langley or, or, Rupert Murdoch's mansion - or...
Hey, -it could happen.

-Randy

Hotspringswizard said...

Yep Freeacre the medical system is certainly such a scam these days. I went to get a pair of foot orthotics made a while back. I told them to just make them like the last ones which worked fine.

They said they could not do it like that and did the new mold of my foot. Well the orthotic they made was completely unworkable and differant from my originals. I once again told them to just copy the old ones which they finally did.

The second set was perfect. They then sent me a bill for $2,500. I had asked the counter lady just out of couriosity before this how much the orthotics would cost if I paid cash and she said everything would come to $400. Since I had insurance I opted to use it.

Well I contacted them and told them I would not pay the ridiculous amount of $2,500. I said I would pay them $400 like the lady said a cash payer would pay. I then sent them a long letter outlining my position and told them if they continued to try and screw me with their clear case of gouging that I would write an opinion piece about it and submit it to the local paper ( my mother gets here opinion pieces regularly published in the local paper, and she was quite pissed about this thing too ).

Well after a couple of months of waiting and not hearing from them they finally contacted me and said if I brought them in $550 cash they would call it good. I asked why $550 and not $400. They said because they had to make two pairs of orthotics. I told them that they were supposed to be the experts and when they finally did what I suggested the orthotics came our fine ( like two orthotics were their mistake ). I told them they would get $400 and nothing more and that I had the financial means, the time, and the interest in seeing that they did not screw me.

They relented and told me to bring in the $400. I told them in my letter how I considered them to be such spinless scumbags with no conscience trying to do what they did. Well one small victory as the masses get continually screwed daily on a huge scale with their medical bills.

And Freeacre, I don't play the " come back for another office visit " ching, ching game with these idiots. I am healthy now thank goodness but I know I'm really going to hate it when I finally really need some serious health intervention and I have to deal with these friggin vampires on a regular basis. Thats why I'm doing my best to keep healthy for as long as possible, to avoid the medical fraud industry thats wrecking so many people's lives these days.

Oh and I'm finally caught up with all of your comments since I've been gone. Great job you guys! I can't think of a thing to add right now. I'm just sitting here feeling a great deal of aggreement with so much ( really practically all ) of what has been expressed here.

I passed along my appreciation of this site and the thoughts expressed here to an older couple ( Bob and Sue ) camped next to me at Burning Man who I enjoyed greatly. I also recommened to Bob that he read The Long Emergency by James Howard Kunstler which I think provides a good, relatively concise introduction to much of what is, and will be troubling humanity these day, and on into the foreseable future.

So much info to pour through to keep up with the new developments. I figure its time well spent, like reading what you folks express here at the Trout Clan :-)

Anonymous said...

Anybody listen to the NPR morning news today, Thursday, Sept. 9? Our broadcast went off air during a segment detailing how difficult it is for returning vets to receive purple hearts for concussive injuries sustained in Iraq and Afghanistan. The wife of a soldier was talking about their uphill battle with the Army when the sound cut off in mid-sentence. No scratchy prelude, just clear, plain static. When it returned, our concsiousnesses had been redirected to focus on football.

I'm wondering if this was a national event, or a local glitch?

-rockpicker

RAS said...

It was a local glitch, rp. I heard the story just fine. For those who didn't hear it, the story is available on NPR's website. Morning Edition for Wednesday. Their tax bill was so low (24%) only because they have a higher income than most.

Code word: manick
An apt description of our country, don't you think?

Anonymous said...

Freeacre, after 27 years with a glassback, I can attest to the high level of scammery in the medical industry. I have spent thousands on all sorts of back doctor, osteopaths, chiropractors (one from Man Utd football team), consultant surgeons, and various 'alternative' practitioners.

The only advice I received which actually helped, was from a physiotherapist. I now do a 15 minute exercise/stretching routine in the mornings, the exercises are very low impact, specific to build core body muscles, specially the lower abs - not the upper abs you use for sit ups. I got more from a 1/2 hour session with a physio than I did from all the back doctors combined.

I've been doing this routine 6 years now, my back still has issues, but it's manageable by spreading out the heavy manual work over the week so I don't do consecutive days hard graft, and wearing a weight lifters belt if there's any bending involved. I use painkillers very infrequently, I used to live on them. Smoking, or vaporising, helps too ;)

gamedog

Anonymous said...

only writing this because it seems a little slow right now and probably has nothing to do with what is being talked about.
i ran a stop sign yesterday and giggled deliriously from the thrill
ok this is stupid i guess but i just had to spin it off as the new mayor is placing stop sighs road markers and all kinds of little do this do that kind of shit in my little village, a new crosswalk was laid out yesterday with a little sigh three feet tall setting square in the middle of the walk saying ''children crossing state law says stopping for them mandatory'' OK i get if the sign was not there it would be ok to run over the little fuckers, !! right? like i am driving with a blindfold over my eyes because its more of a thrill that way, right? fuck me in the goats ass, see what i mean?
this ongoing pestilence is bringing this one to the edge.
i know it sounds like trivial bullshit and it is on the one hand but to me it makes me want to bring out my guns,
because we all know that this top of the iceberg shit is just that and by the gods thats how it all starts and thats
exactly why this fucking white mans country (and it is a christian white mans country) is in the state its in right
now.
a mans/womens right to live a life of freedom is just that, a life of freedom, until and there is the fucking hook, UNTIL some mother fucker figures as how there is power and money to be made by making up rules and raping those that violate them.
ok so there it is, what cha gonna do about that sheep.(present company discluded)
to be continued

Anonymous said...

the law, the law is put in place to protect you from me or me from you right?
ok say i'm a whiny mother fucker that don't like you driving around drunk, why? because drunks kill people sometimes other then themselfs. so we invent a system whereas some pukebag writes a set of words on paper and call it a law, a behavioral mandate, now how you gonna make the mandate work? well you use some of your energy as cash and hire some pyscho with a gun to enforce this mandate, does it work? no drunks are still gonna drive drunk and kill people , but now how you gonna deal with a drunk driver? well first YOU place them in a facility that YOU have paid more of your energy to build, and then pay more of your energy to hire someone to care for and feed the drunk, then what? then you pay more of your energy to hire public defender maybe to defend said drunk, but maybe the drunk has energy to pay his own attorny, ok, then he posts bail which takes his energy to get out of said holding facility, and maybe at some point goes to another facility of which you have helped build with your energy to decide if and what punishment the drunk will deserve, by a jury or judge of which you have paid for with your energy also and then maybe to larger more permanent facility called prison of which YOU will help pay for with your energy and the guards, cooks, doctors, nurses, drugs, busses and all that it takes to run a prison, which in my case was a measly $50,000 a year, ok i get out of jail retrieve my impounded vehicle buy myself some well deserved alcohol, drink it on the way home, get shit faced and run over a pedestrian and kill him, ok with me so far, ok off to jail and the whole thing happens all over with your precious energy and now do you feel safe yet,?
i don't think so
o right i forgot , this will fix it make another law.
as long as we continue to blame what is happening to us as something outside rather then understand the head full of denials we pack...which is real. ( L threw this in )
well

like randy says , ''we are doomed''
aho
mf

Anonymous said...

the server is really fucked right now, widespread panic i expect.maybe this might make it, maybe not, no mattere.

the law, the law is put in place to protect you from me or me from you right?
ok say i'm a whiny mother fucker that don't like you driving around drunk, why? because drunks kill people sometimes other then themselfs. so we invent a system whereas some pukebag writes a set of words on paper and call it a law, a behavioral mandate, now how you gonna make the mandate work? well you use some of your energy as cash and hire some pyscho with a gun to enforce this mandate, does it work? no drunks are still gonna drive drunk and kill people , but now how you gonna deal with a drunk driver? well first YOU place them in a facility that YOU have paid more of your energy to build, and then pay more of your energy to hire someone to care for and feed the drunk, then what? then you pay more of your energy to hire public defender maybe to defend said drunk, but maybe the drunk has energy to pay his own attorny, ok, then he posts bail which takes his energy to get out of said holding facility, and maybe at some point goes to another facility of which you have helped build with your energy to decide if and what punishment the drunk will deserve, by a jury or judge of which you have paid for with your energy also and then maybe to larger more permanent facility called prison of which YOU will help pay for with your energy and the guards, cooks, doctors, nurses, drugs, busses and all that it takes to run a prison, which in my case was a measly $50,000 a year, ok i get out of jail retrieve my impounded vehicle buy myself some well deserved alcohol, drink it on the way home, get shit faced and run over a pedestrian and kill him, ok with me so far, ok off to jail and the whole thing happens all over with your precious energy and now do you feel safe yet,?
i don't think so
o right i forgot , this will fix it make another law.
as long as we continue to blame what is happening to us as something outside rather then understand the head full of denials we pack...which is real. ( L threw this in )
well

like randy says , ''we are doomed''
aho
mf

Anonymous said...

the server is really fucked right now, widespread panic i expect.maybe this might make it, maybe not, no mattere.

the law, the law is put in place to protect you from me or me from you right?
ok say i'm a whiny mother fucker that don't like you driving around drunk, why? because drunks kill people sometimes other then themselfs. so we invent a system whereas some pukebag writes a set of words on paper and call it a law, a behavioral mandate, now how you gonna make the mandate work? well you use some of your energy as cash and hire some pyscho with a gun to enforce this mandate, does it work? no drunks are still gonna drive drunk and kill people , but now how you gonna deal with a drunk driver? well first YOU place them in a facility that YOU have paid more of your energy to build, and then pay more of your energy to hire someone to care for and feed the drunk, then what? then you pay more of your energy to hire public defender maybe to defend said drunk, but maybe the drunk has energy to pay his own attorny, ok, then he posts bail which takes his energy to get out of said holding facility, and maybe at some point goes to another facility of which you have helped build with your energy to decide if and what punishment the drunk will deserve, by a jury or judge of which you have paid for with your energy also and then maybe to larger more permanent facility called prison of which YOU will help pay for with your energy and the guards, cooks, doctors, nurses, drugs, busses and all that it takes to run a prison, which in my case was a measly $50,000 a year, ok i get out of jail retrieve my impounded vehicle buy myself some well deserved alcohol, drink it on the way home, get shit faced and run over a pedestrian and kill him, ok with me so far, ok off to jail and the whole thing happens all over with your precious energy and now do you feel safe yet,?
i don't think so
o right i forgot , this will fix it make another law.
as long as we continue to blame what is happening to us as something outside rather then understand the head full of denials we pack...which is real. ( L threw this in )
well

like randy says , ''we are doomed''
aho
mf

Anonymous said...

You know this to me is the best set of comments (excluding mine) that i have seen that at least brings the thoughts on board that are pertinent and viable to action, this is important because whining about shit which is easY to do because,, well just looking at the chaos brought about by the two-leggeds makes for a super whinfest upon awaking in the morning with nothing going on in particular. i mean it has become so daily, no even hourly maybe that it is always there. in the face, so to speak, at least to those of us that pay attention to the horseshit that takes center stage,well as can be attested by good friends of mine i being born of circumstances that now precludes eating buffalos for lunch are especially prone to snivel at the drop of a hat about the so called injustice that is a ''seeming'' because after all it is u and i that are responsive to the degradation that is upon us, and nothing or no one or no thing will put that anywhere else, right ? we are it.
it is our world, it is our ''making'' each and every second of the day.
we are the world, we are the police, we are the lawmakers, we are the injustice,we are the ones that allow everything that is observed to be that which it is.
so.. whats a mother fucker to do?
good question, maybe nothing, maybe something, but if we do what is the motivation for the doing?, where does it come from?, is it simply a response from our conditioning?, or does it possibly come from a source that until now has never been investagated?, is there a source of action that has nothing to do with anything that has ever been looked at before?,
because everything i do that has its roots in something that has already been done is dead as a doornail and is a boring son of a bitch.
what is missing i think is the creative spirit that has nothing to do with the past.a spirit of constant newness, an outcropping of the never was, and going with that notion, a never will be. does this sound like lala land? it certainly does to this one.
but then again to continue with business as usual is going straight to hell as we can plainly see it happening now, right ?

the problem then is maybe this, somehow to realize that anything connected to the past (other then knowing how to tie ones shoes) must be discarded and that which is ''not'' be allowed, what ever that might be.
i can see plainly that any response from the past applied to a problem of psychological nature is doomed from the start,
this is so obvious.
because the problems of this world are psychological in nature, that is plain to see, we just cannot keep from killing each other and our selfs and every living thing on this lovely planet.
to me this seems like a PROBLEM. does it not?
ok so we can't get along and the solutions of the smart and brilliant are pure shit, or else reality would be something quite different i think.
so again whats a mother fucker to do.?
well we can start maybe by realizing that whatever we do is going to turn into shit also,right? if anyone knows of someone that is living without the psychology illusion of fear based responses would you please direct this one to him/her.
i would love to meet them.

the wind is blowing mightily outside and the clear blue sky has puffs of clouds hanging from it and as they float by i feel the goodness of the universe surround me and the sleeping chihuahuas that are spread on my
bed.
life does not have to be a nightmare and as these days of change go by it becomes more apparent that the simple act of tenderness and mercy are all that is needed of us as a people to love one another.
we love you
aho
mf&l

Anonymous said...

the law, the law is put in place to protect you from me or me from you right?
ok say i'm a whiny mother fucker that don't like you driving around drunk, why? because drunks kill people sometimes other then themselfs. so we invent a system whereas some pukebag writes a set of words on paper and call it a law, a behavioral mandate, now how you gonna make the mandate work? well you use some of your energy as cash and hire some pyscho with a gun to enforce this mandate, does it work? no drunks are still gonna drive drunk and kill people , but now how you gonna deal with a drunk driver? well first YOU place them in a facility that YOU have paid more of your energy to build, and then pay more of your energy to hire someone to care for and feed the drunk, then what? then you pay more of your energy to hire public defender maybe to defend said drunk, but maybe the drunk has energy to pay his own attorny, ok, then he posts bail which takes his energy to get out of said holding facility, and maybe at some point goes to another facility of which you have helped build with your energy to decide if and what punishment the drunk will deserve, by a jury or judge of which you have paid for with your energy also and then maybe to larger more permanent facility called prison of which YOU will help pay for with your energy and the guards, cooks, doctors, nurses, drugs, busses and all that it takes to run a prison, which in my case was a measly $50,000 a year, ok i get out of jail retrieve my impounded vehicle buy myself some well deserved alcohol, drink it on the way home, get shit faced and run over a pedestrian and kill him, ok with me so far, ok off to jail and the whole thing happens all over with your precious energy and now do you feel safe yet,?
i don't think so
o right i forgot , this will fix it make another law.
as long as we continue to blame what is happening to us as something outside rather then understand the head full of denials we pack...which is real. ( L threw this in )
well

like randy says , ''we are doomed''
aho
mf

wv fartb, no denial here

Anonymous said...

Thanks for that, Ras.

I read a piece the other day that spoke of the dollar in terms of it being a fraction of an ounce of gold, which is an inversion from the way the two are normally considered.

The author said that the dollar is now worth one twelve-hundredth of an ounce of gold.

In '73, it was worth one thirty-fifth of a once of gold.

In 1863, when Virginia City, Montana was a booming gold rush town, the dollar was worth one twentieth of an ounce of gold.

We tend to think of gold 'rising' in value, but really, it's our paper currency that is plummeting in value.

When gold begins rising five and ten dollars per day, as it was the last couple of weeks, what we're actually witnessing is the dollar
dissolving.

My feeling is that most Americans are totally unaware of how tenuous the situation now is.

As Athanasor said, "...the underlying problem is the exponential growth of stupidity. That 5 million outraged citizens did not hit the streets when the Supreme Court took jurisdiction of the Florida election process showed me that WE are screwed."

I would add 'ignorance and apathy' to that list of malignancies.

-rockpicker

Anonymous said...

Whoa! It's a tab bit cold around here these past couple of days. Might have to sit by the fire a bit.

Looks like Big Bro is look'in to pounce on the Randster. In my work inbox was a message from those 'high up' that the flu shot will be manatory and the only way out of the toxic jab is a note from a doctor or pastor. As Yoda would say, "Not happy, am I."

Last year they hassled me and I signed a "stick-that-needle-in-your-eye" form, but it looks like I'm gonna have to feed my sad story to some doc and hope he gives me a "Get Out of Jail FREE" card. They'll probaly STILL hassle me, since I work in a healthcare facility.
Ratshit!

While surfing the blogsphere I came across some info as to the contents of this year's regular flu shot -that it's BOTH the regular flu shot combined with swine flu toxins. Anyone else find info on the this?

Man, this sucks. This is the best job and best paying job I've ever had and I'd hate to get fired over a damn flu shot.

Wifeepoo and I had a disagreement. Ok, it was a fight, but, it didn't last very long. She came home the other day raving about how great it was that Obama was getting the "combat" soldiers out of Vietraq, but after I had to explain to her about little things such as "facts," she decided she'd heard enough and explained to me that she'd rather keep her head in the sand. Ok. Whatever. Man, this sucks, too. If you can't talk about such things with your spouce, who can you talk to?!

Well, I guess -YOU GUYS AND GALS!!! Ha!

Well, this fire's get'in kinda hot. Best cool off somewhere -and pray to The Flying Spaghetti Monster for an asteroid. Later -

-Randy

Anonymous said...

Dogs won't drink the rain water?

http://www.henrymakow.com/most_of_this_week_it.html

-rp

Hotspringswizard said...

Obama is still spewing his economic pep talk BS, and meanwhile:

http://blacklistednews.com/news-10416-0-13-13--.html

This year, US public debt could reach end game

......Federal Reserve Chairman Bernanke issues the warning. Asian nations, China and India first, are no longer willing to purchase securities issued by the US Treasury, which this year has about US$ two trillion short-term debt to refinance. Beijing is buying gold instead......

Anonymous said...

excuse me guys but if we continually fill our minds on the self-serving attributes of collecting material objects as a means of salvation i think we really are only taking part in the same stuff that is now taking the world apart at the seams, i mean no disrespect, we do have to eat, be warm and keep out suv's full of gas but is not the larger picture a significant part of our existence on this lonely little ball so far away from any place else that might have a brain?
there is no help coming, is there?
i mean what is it that is keeping us from that which we really desire beneath the flashy shit from wally-world,? and this world is wally-world regardless of how its disguised, it even says in the book i just burned to not seek your treasures anywhere other then heaven or some such.
now why would it say that? what the fuck does that mean and if it has meaning why can't anyone figure out exactly what the fuck it means.?
does it mean that the worship of wally-world and its look alikes is really not the place to store up ones salvation,?
i do not know but i can ask the question, when we die and our big stack of whatever we have accumulated from the likes of materialism what the fuck will all that expenditure if energy mean? really,the two-leggeds marvelous
mentality so capable of bringing into being the most incredible of things from mother earth and then killing each over it, well does this not ring some kind of alarm? i mean if human life is such a useless commodity as it really seems to be then i guess it matters not what we do. however i really don't think that when the end comes for each of us as it will we might wish we had spent a little more time in asking where is creator,what is creator,and most of all i think can i talk to creator and will creator talk back to me. this is serious business for me for without this foundation what does a man have to stand on as a basis for living? his big big mc mansion and his line of wally-world suvs and other useless shit?
when the skin turns to dust, well i think it might be a really good idea to find out if thats it.
if this pursuit is not just as important as checking out whats going on at the city dump called earth, well i just don't know.
anyone like to enlighten this one on why seeking something other then building up ones treasures here as a means of surviving i would truly like to hear it.
don't get me wrong brothers and sisters, this shit is really serious to this one and it behooves one to find answers to this question.
what is reality? not your reality nor mine but what the fuck is reality other then wally-world.?
mf

freeacre said...

gamedog,
Thank you very much for the advice on the back. I will look up those exercises and put them into practice. I have one of those electronic stimulator thingies that give you little electrical jolts, and that is helping, too.
Thanks again.

freeacre said...

Montana, your observations are correct - these are really, really good comments from everyone, and yours included. You remind me of poems by the beat poets, like Howl, by Alan Ginsberg. Keep it up. It's good for all. And, we love you and your little chiwowas, too. But, you know that.

Randster, I bet you can find one of those Mormon doctors around there you will cut you some slack. Or maybe there's some Evangelical pinhead doctor that you can explain that you have secret info that the vaccine is contaminated by Obama and his Satanic Muslim cohorts... let us know.

Rockpicker - holy cow! The dogs won't drink the rainwater in Ark.! I am e-mailing my friend in Little Rock to see if she has noticed anything. Good grief. And, about the gold... we recently traded nine oz. of gold to buy a car that would take us down the road if need be. Don't know if we did the right thing or not. We kept hearing theories of inflation and deflation regarding gold. I don't know. Anyway, since we bought the gold when it was less than $500 per oz., the $13,000 car only really cost us about $3,500-$4,000. So, in any case, I think it was a bargain.

Anonymous said...

sis i hope it was toyota or honda, these are the ones that seem to last a little bit longer then forever.

http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/autos_content_landing_pages/1520/10-cars-mechanics-hate/

i would take a 20 year old toyota to mexico before any american made piece of crap, just an opinion and we know what thats worth, but by the gods i have never been stranded in a toyota and i am on my fifth one.!
also i think stoney might give a hint to long lasting vehicles in the coming free for all,
someone gave me a dodge van and the son of a bitch quit three times on the way home from missoula, man i almost threw a match in the gas tank but my friend said what if the match gets wet and wont light the gas,? i just shuddered at the thought., girls don't know much about gas and matches, huh?
no she wernt blond,
i found out that if the fucker breaks it takes a nasa teckie to fix one of these new contraptions complete with back up computers in case the car crashes the first one upon hooking it up.
i think of the first ones that were made and it took a handful of wrenches to overhaul them or some such, sigh...
ok good luck with the new ride sis, please point it east sometime the door is always open beings rockpicker and i are hogtied to montana for some reason.
hoping for some relief after the asteroid hits.
aho
mf

freeacre said...

lol... yup, it was a Toyota. Liked my first RAV4 so much I got another one. This one's got a moonroof! When it's open I feel like Thelma and Louise!

I declared it to be "Pretend you are a Muslim Day" and was going around in a pretty head scarf. But, I have to go to a gun show to buy murph a new knife for butchering. Found myself chickening out on wearing the headscarf to a gun show... not enough guts, I guess. Fuck.

Anonymous said...

Here's a weird twist to a story I'm sure all of you wish would just go away.

Cryptogon had it also.

http://www.observer.com/2010/politics/untangling-new-intrigue-behind-ground-zero-mosque

-rockpicker

Anonymous said...

they must think the 'X-factor' brigade will believe anything. Check this from the 'you couldn't make it up' department (where clearly they can!)

"An MI6 worker found dead inside a sports bag may have suffocated after climbing into the holdall by himself, it has been suggested."

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/840656-dead-mi6-worker-may-have-climbed-into-bag-by-himself

-gamedog

RAS said...

Vaccine-autism award announced:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20015982-10391695.html

Anonymous said...

FINALLY! A BIG WOW!! And a BIG HURRAH!!

I hope this becomes HUGELY significant!!

http://www.mo911truth.org/

Check out what Alan Sabrosky has to say.

-rp

Anonymous said...

Sabrosky... good catch rp. especially among the dozens there... p

Anonymous said...

"...Inflation is when the economy overheats: It’s when an economy’s consumables (labor and commodities) are so in-demand because of economic growth, coupled with an expansionist credit environment, that the consumables rise in price. This forces all goods and services to rise in price as well, so that producers can keep up with costs. It is essentially a demand-driven phenomena.

Hyperinflation is the loss of faith in the currency. Prices rise in a hyperinflationary environment just like in an inflationary environment, but they rise not because people want more money for their labor or for commodities, but because people are trying to get out of the currency. It’s not that they want more money—they want less of the currency: So they will pay anything for a good which is not the currency..."

-lifted from How Hyperinflation Will Happen In America, by Gonzalo Lira,

wv= amess (Amen!)

-rp

failed
new wv= upevil (?)

Anonymous said...

"Dog Poet Transmitting…….



Most of us haven’t seen the Martha Washington Monument; probably because it’s a 500 foot hole in the ground but… most any American who’s your average resident knows what it feels like to be Martha and have the force of government buried into them by someone other than George. This kind of writing would probably set George’s wooden teeth on fire but there’s a lot more Voltaire in me than there is Damon Runyon. I guess that makes me French; kind of..."

http://zippittydodah.blogspot.com/2010/09/this-is-teabagging-that-john-waters.html

Funny image.

-rp

Anonymous said...

rp... all roads now lead to israel. especially if they happen to go through the cia and u.s. military eh? think you'll find this piece by mark ames most interesting...
http://www.observer.com/2010/politics/untangling-new-intrigue-behind-ground-zero-mosque

who's ames? creator of the eXile. with whom, up until recently, matt taibbi - the great american bubble machine, et al - co-edited.

both are high profile enough to be very well know in media circles and pretty much regarded as... well, vanity fair summed it up this way.... "

'They call Ames and Taibbi, singly or in combination, children, louts, misogynists, madmen, pigs, hypocrites, anarchists, fascists, racists, and fiends. According to Carol Williams, of the Los Angeles Times, “It seemed like a bunch of kids who’d somehow gotten funding for their own little newspaper.” A former New York Times Moscow-bureau chief, Michael Wines, offered a no-comment comment. “I think I’ll pass, thank you,” he e-mailed, “except to repeat what I said at the time, and what Shaw said a lot earlier: Never wrestle with a pig. You just get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.” '

genuine rascals both. 2 guys with the balls to actually BE as insane as a particularly mischivous part of me would like to be! you'll get a hoot or many. like this...


'What The Exile lacked in resources it made up for in ritualistic public humiliation. For one stunt, Ames and Taibbi, armed with forged stationery purporting to be from the St. Petersburg mayor’s office, hired the American public-relations giant Burson-Marsteller to help put a nice spin on the city’s police-brutality problem. Burson-Marsteller, at the time doing a lot of work in Russia on behalf of American companies, happily took the job, and The Exile published the correspondence and phone transcripts. Taibbi masqueraded as an executive from the New York Jets and tried to recruit Mikhail Gorbachev to move to New Jersey to become a motivational coach for the team. Later, reporting from Manhattan, he exposed Wall Street’s complicity in 1998’s disastrous ruble devaluation, bought a gorilla suit, walked to Goldman Sachs’s headquarters on Water Street, and sat down on the lobby floor for lunch, announcing to the security guards, “If Goldman Sachs can make a $50 million commission selling worthless Russian debt, then I can come into their offices in a gorilla suit and eat a sandwich on their floor.” '...

http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2010/02/exile-201002

...p

Anonymous said...

I love Taibbi's rants on Goldman sucks,

BUT

He thinks 19 Arabs with box cutters with no real flying experience fooled the intelligence apparatus of the Western world, brought down three steel skyscrapers with two planes, changed the laws of physics, made the "Chair" Force stand down, put down some putt options on American Airlines, etc., etc., etc.

Jesus H. Christ, is there not ONE honest person left on this fucking planet?!

-Randy

Anonymous said...

Thanks, P. That piece sounds entertaining.

I have not studied Taibbi's entire body of work, but only know a little something of him through two seemingly unrelated exposures.

Of course, his ongoing series in Rollingstone Magazine has made him known to millions of readers for exposing the mechanics of how the global financial system has been systematically demolished by a handful of Wall Street banksters and highly-placed saboteurs in the federal government.

When I first became aware of Mr. Taibbi, he was ranting about the crazy, tin-foil hat lunatic 9/11 truthers. He and Alex Cockburn, (Counterpunch,) and Matthew Rothschild, (The Progressive,) and Joshua Holland, (Alternet) all spoke, as if in one voice, about how insane it was of the truthers to suggest U.S. government complicity in the attacks. Of course, these particular "progressive" leaders offered no alternative to the government's ludicrous and still unproven "conspiracy theory," a narrative they helped America swallow by not challenging its preposterous claims, and so, unwittingly, found themselves aligned with the real perps, who were anything but progressive.

Since the revelation of thermite chips having been discovered in samples of the WTC dust, and lack of evidence to substantiate claims a Boeing hit the Pentagon, I wonder what position these loudmouths currently espouse on the subject.

Ancient history, no doubt. They've moved on.

Yet, it seems to me, the metaphorical similarities of buildings cascading into their own footprints in lower Manhattan, and our financial structures imploding in pyroclastic mayhem must be obvious to even the dullest observer.

-rockpicker

Anonymous said...

Randy;

Gore Vidal.

-rp

ps-- nicely ranted, I concur

Anonymous said...

Looking further into what the aforementioned writers might have to say for themselves on 9/11 truth turned up this dated, but still shiny, gem.

http://911review.com/reviews/progressive/markup/rothschild.html

Anonymous said...

For a good time call.

http://www.fredoneverything.net/BurningtheKoran.shtml

mf

Anonymous said...

MF;

That was good!

-rp

Anonymous said...

Here's a long read, but I may have to invest in Mr. Marrs' new book.

http://jasonkelly.com/2010/09/trillion-dollar-conspiracy/

-rp