Thursday, September 15, 2011

Science Fiction and the Future



Dehydrated cherry tomatoes. Finally getting some things from the Garden!






by murph

SCIENCE FICTION AND THE FUTURE

I know many of our readers follow The Archdruid postings. I do faithfully. A few of them I considered important enough to archive into storage. John Michael Greer (the archdruid) I have great respect for. Knowledgeable, well read, studious, pays attention to details and a good writer and I seldom have serious dispute with his postings.

However, I have to take exception to his Sept. 7 post titled “Invasion of the Space Bats” that is concerned mostly with science fiction writing.

I will fully admit that I have been a big fan of science fiction writing since the late 60’s. I had a rather huge collection of paperback novels a bunch of years ago, finally got tired of moving them and sold almost all of them, comprised of nearly 1500 books. I still have around almost the complete works of Heinlein and several others of my favorite authors.

In my opinion, Greer has a rather myopic view of SF writing. He stated; “it was basically a collection of wish-fulfillment fantasies for teenage boys. (And that, Mr. de Camp, is what the woman in the brass brassiere is doing on the cover of your book.) “. Bull shit in my opinion. In fact, Greer’s belittlement of SF smacks of Ayn Rand and her condemnation of everything but classical music. I sure would hate to see Greer go in the direction of Randisms, he’d lose me in a heartbeat.

My fascination with SF up until about 1980 was the alternate views concerning how humans could organize themselves into societies and how they would work. “The wish-fulfillment fantasies” dealing with technology was entirely of secondary concern for me. I was interested in the author’s conception of how societies could be organized differently, how motivations of individuals and groups could influence actions and what the consequences might be, and how future societal values might evolve. I have a rather long list of SF books that highlight that line of thinking. Greer’s myopic view that these novels were exclusively about technology and teenage fantasies is very poor reductionism and IMO misses the author’s points by wide margins.

It is true that many SF novels focused on the author’s concept of future technology and engaged in how that technology was used. These novels usually had poor character development, pretty thin plot lines and rather predictable outcomes. I read them for the purely entertainment value. But to make Greer’s mistake of lumping them all into “wish-fulfillment fantasies” is only showing a lack of extensive investigation on his part.

I mostly stopped indulging in SF reading around 1980 or so because I observed a couple of changes going on. I got tired or reading acclaimed novels that seemed to only be concerned with the number of words being printed and paid for and had nothing significant to say. I also lost interest in the change from speculation on social organization to what I call science fantasy. These works migrated into magic and the occult and completely unbelievable futures. Purely entertainment without significant content and probably would fit into Greer’s “wish fulfillment fantasies”.

I recently had an acquaintance lay on me 4 sacks of her SF books to read. I recently went through two of the sacks and am reading only one of the novels. The rest I won’t bother with because they are those science fantasy types that IMO have nothing significant to say about anything. The person that let me borrow these book is a retired teacher and a self proclaimed SF nut and offers literary critique on a broad scale. I’m not looking forward to returning the books unread since she recommended them so highly. But I refuse to waste my time on them. The one novel I am reading is concerned with nano-technology misuse and how it affected the people involved. The author seems to have made the attempt to really understand the technology as it is today and project it into the future applications, mostly military. So far, that novel hasn’t disappointed me. I shall see how it ends up.

In talking about SF we also need to include the movie part of it. Freeacre and I have recently seen a bunch of the most wretched god awful written and produced Sf movies ever. The plots were pretty good, but everything else presenting it was so poorly done as quite literally, were not worth watching. For some reason that I don’t fully understand, the SF movies for the most part do not have much significant to say, pure entertainment alone. There are exceptions IMO. The Matrix series I think have some significant statements as does the Terminator series. “The Road” which is a pretty dark movie does project some possible scenarios into the future, as does the movie “Children of Men”. I think that “The Postman” (which is a futuristic movie and SF) also has some significant statements about humans and how they can organize and live after a huge catastrophe.

Which leads me to another subject associated with SF that I have touched on before. There is much written today and in the past concerning the past, present and future. The advice from many authors, religions and philosophy views is to live in the present. Upon examination of some of these “live in the present” positions, I have come to the conclusion that it is a fantasy game in the brain. There is no such thing as “the present” and humans that try and live there are kidding themselves. What is possible is to limit to some extent the amount lived in the past or projections into the future.

Let’s start with some definitions. The future is what might be, but is not manifested at this time and space. The past is what is remembered and has already taken place. The present is what is “now”. That is where the rub is. What is the time interval for “now”? The minute you identify “now”, it is in the past. The past and the future have no time limitations. I am going to assert that humans cannot live in that short a time span of brain activity. What are we going to talk about, milliseconds, Pico-seconds? “Now” in reality simply does not exist in any human conceptualization that has meaning. What we mostly refer to as “now” is a short time span in the past.

It is true that humans may indulge in what is called “impulse behavior” that does not have significant reflection on past memories, but, I would assert that operating primarily on impulse behavior has more negative consequences on a person than might be acknowledged. Even the “fight or flight” impulses are based on past memories.


One of the characteristics of the human brain is that it has selective memory and is most of the time very inaccurate for a variety of reason. Since the memory of the past events can never be absolutely verified we have to accept our interpretation and “memory” of events that influence our actions in the future. Living in the “now” implies that memory of the past and projections into the future can be discounted and that, my readers, is flat out impossible. It is not the way the human brain works. Even other animals operate by remembering the past, which is the basis for actions in the future. A well-trained dog remembers past commands and acts accordingly. So do all of us. .

The real question for me anyway, is how accurate are the memories and their relationship to reality. From experience, I know damned well that I have memories that are doctored, maybe even pure fantasy. How many times have friends said to you that your memory of some incident is not how it was, or that they saw it very different? Or how many times has a friend related and incident you were involved in sometime in the past and you don’t recognize it because you remember it different?

On a very rudimentary level, our very survival depends on memory of the past. That memory and the resulting consequences of some event is what keeps us alive and able to project consequences into the future. When our memory is very inaccurate most of the time and not in conjunction with reality, we probably will not survive. In my view, that is the purpose of history, inaccurate as it is, to keep us focused on what has gone on before and its implications for the future. If the history that we keep locked up in our minds is way off base in relation to reality, we will make some really bad decisions concerning future actions, much to our detriment.

I conclude that all the new age stuff about living in the “present” in the “now” is so much nonsense. It can’t be done and only diverts ones attention from what is important to human living and survival.

At this point I want to thank all of you that have offered opinions concerning this blog and its continuance. That the comments were so predominately encouraging and supportive took me a bit by surprise. It truly felt to me that the blog was becoming stale without much new to talk about. We are not about to disconnect from this blog in the immediate future, and maybe we just need a few people to make contributions with some fresh insights we haven’t thought of. Belgium says he has some in the works. Let’s see how this progresses.

Thanks again to all of you.

45 comments:

Anonymous said...

Hey Murph, maybe Greer was referring to the stuff after 1980 and stuff like the 4 stacks you were given. Either way, have you posted a comment expressing what you wrote here? He might be able to clarify -or take back what he said.

Bend gets a lot of sunshine, right? We do here, so, I made a solar dehydrator out of scrap which works great.

One piece of wood about 3' x 4' or so with a piece of corrugated metal nailed to it.

On top of corrugated metal, I attached a mesh screen, which creates a flat surface.

Of course, I prop it up to a 30 degree angle or so.

I place a half of a black sheet over the flat mesh surface.

Cut and lay the bits of tomato, apple and the like on the black sheet.

Lay the other half of the black sheet over the food.

Then place a piece of glass (I found an old glass storm door) over the food on the sheet, but I use two small rocks to keep the glass from touching the food.

In 3 to 4 hours, all is dried.

Granted, it works really well on hot days, but if I were to enclose all of it -create a box, it would probably work on not so hot days.

Just some FYI stuff.

Gotta git-

(oh, and thanks for hanging out with us a bit longer.)

-Randy

nina said...

I just finished Greer's latest, The Glass Bead Game. While waiting for your page to open, the photo at the top seemed to be how machine parts of the past, which is defined here as our present, have been made useful in the 24th century. I saw a hubcap as serving platter. Heh. Oh, why not.

I agree with you Murph, never having felt entirely comfy with living in a now which if we did would make didactical now-lifers into toddlers and psychopathic adults without conscience or fear of consequence. We live as we live, in waves and tides, observing the flows, taking action when necessary or not, with awareness of the future through education from the past.
Of course there are activities requiring intense concentration into the now such as driving on an interstate or logical steps to take if disaster is coming down upon you, but those moments of living in the now are supported by our past experience.

Maybe the whole idea of living in the now is actually intentionally focused awareness and the word "now" is symbolic of the specific time frame in which we are presently positioned.

Excellent, strong, forthright posting.

Anonymous said...

I don't hold the druid in the same light you do, so his opinions don't mean too much (to me).

My own collection of science fiction I much enjoy. Heinlein wrote some of the best, as did Assimov, Baker and others. Presently finishing four separate books (I read several titles at once).

Reading is a privilege and a necessity imo, way better then the stupid idiot box. Reading good authors is even better.

There are some great scenarios outlined by science fiction writers, most who envision a better place then here. Some have even tried to retroactively address the problems of this century, and are well worth reading.

~Survival Acres~

murph said...

Randy,

If we had enough garden produce all coming off at the same time, I would rig up something similar that you have described. This might or might not work so good for folks that live in high humidity areas. Of course I am a bit persnickety and dehydrate down to maybe 2% water left so I don't get bacterial growth. One of our problems with doing it outside here is the chickens. Them suckers can smell food a block away and they are uncanny in their ability to figure out how to get to it. lol.

murph said...

Nina,

I suppose Freeacre may be right, I do get nit picky once in a while. Lol. I like your last statement, "Maybe the whole idea of living in the now is actually intentionally focused awareness and the word "now" is symbolic of the specific time frame in which we are presently positioned." I would agree at the practical human level that appears true. Although I guess I object to philosophical systems that depend on some undefined "now" as a means of making money and influencing behavior.

murph said...

Survival Acres,

I don't recall your ever commenting at this blog before. Welcome to the campfire.

I believe that in some of your past postings on your blog, you have been quite critical of Greer. I did not mean to infer that I think that Greer has the end word on any particular subject. And, I also notice that Greer either lightly touches on or outright ignores some controversial subjects that would seem to me pertinent to his subject at hand. And, while I disagree with him at times, I don't want to negate the valuable stuff he does put out.

My book reading has slowed down a bunch in the last number of years, not near as prolific as I used to be at it.

I have observed over time a problems with bloggers, especially those with strongly held opinions, is they often don't take criticism easily. One of the attributes of our blog site is that we encourage a figurative passing of the talking stick. You speak your truth as you see it, arguments can arise over differences of viewpoint, but we shouldn't take it personally. The truth I see may be very different from the truth you see. When these differences occur, usually the question is asked for supporting evidence. Me, I'm a data guy, I want to see the numbers and independent confirmation, which seems to be conspicuously absent in many arguments, and instead deteriorate into a battle of unsubstantiated opinions and ideology. A human condition?

By the way, I also follow and enjoy your site immensely. In our household, you are known as the ultimate doomer guy. lol. Fits right in with my take on the stuff going on.

Thanks again for the comment.

Anonymous said...

Murph, I think for alot of people who speak of " living in the now " its not a reference to the undefineable exact peak of the flow from past to future we call the present. Some may be referring to that peak, but I think most are not. Rather they are refering to some more immediate span, this day, this week as apposed to the farther flung future in defining their plans. I don't think living where you do not consider the past or future is particularly wise since I you clearly put unnecesary limits on the tools that learning and cognition provide us to make our way and avoid difficulties.

I think it can be accurately said that no time increment can be given to define " the present ". This then means to me that there is no boundry ( in terms of time ) between past and future. I've considered these ideas before about the enigmatic features of the present and its ellusiveness to our ability to understand really what it is, ever.

With science delving into deeper and deeper levels of the basic mechanics of existance, the questions conerning time, awarness and reality have become even more bizarre and unreckognizable to our previous or " common sense " notions about them. The layers keep getting peeled away as we peer feebly into the infinity that surrounds us.

There are no ultimate answers as humanities morphing mass awareness gets passed along like a river from generation to generation. So many in this world, postive thier awarness is correct, right, and yet, would our myriad ideas be anything but strange and alien to the Cave men and women of our far flung past? We saw the world through our child's mind once, and now we see it very much differently, but we must always realize, the journey in this regard is never done, its all just part of the greater flow as we move as entities from one lens ( awarness/point of view ) to another :-)

But climbing back out of that Rabbit Hole of mysteries I just described to our basic sense of the world, I think Randy made a good suggestion that would be interesting, in that you ( Murph ) could post your disagreement with Greer's notions of SF material and see what his reply is to that. I'd be curious to see what he would have to say and he seems very diligent about replying to his commenters.

continued

Anonymous said...

I see in Greer's last posting he says he will be bringing up the subject of Magic as it relates to the other issues he has been discussing, something by his own words he has been avoiding thus far. I'm looking forward to see how that goes :-)

On another subject, you may remember ( the past ) I mentioned the new DVD by the Architects and Engineers for 9-11 Truth. Well last night I googled the title of this DVD " Architecture of Destruction " and about three down was a video link with that same title and it was about 2 hours in length. I watched it and to me it was the best case I've seen thus far for the evidence of the controlled demolitions of Trade 1-2 and building 7. Looks like that video has been hacked since about 12 times during the viewing a banner floats across the screen with the narrators name and next to it is a red stop sign that says " Stop Lying ".

I talked to my brother today about this video and he said its not the same as the actual DVD just put out of the same title, which he has viewed a part of and he did not like that one. I told him this one was done in a differant setting than he described and I thought the guy Richard Gage did a great jobe with this particular presentation which is set in Canada. Here is the link for the one I viewed:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1941762273803445007#

I really like your ( Murph/Freeacre ) post photos of the vegetable from your garden :-) I was just at our local Farmers Market today and picked up some little yellow tomatoes like the ones in the first pic and they were delicious and sweet. I also picked up some summer squash like those in your second pic. But wait, I thought the locals said that gardens were impossible in La Pine :-)

Enjoyed your post Murph :-)

HSW

Anonymous said...

Hi Murph and FA

Another great rant and it also bothers me too a bit (not that I'm into SF much) but don't think the latest "be in the now" craze means a whole hell of a lot to most people. Haven't been around as we were so busy attending to brother's affairs etc and arranging for the memorial celebration of his life. It was beautiful with lots of good music and tons of flowers and food.

I'm currently reading the novel, "On The Beach" by famous Aussie Nevil Shutte. NOT a very "uplifting" story to say the least. It does give one some perspective though, on looking at the difference between living everyday life and living the last few days of life.

When you're reading this book you can't comprehend the attitude when someone complains about anything unless it's nuke poisoning...everything else pales in comparrison. Strange book and although truely the end of the world has some funny poinent moments. I guess I'm just reading it because my brother had it in his library.

The past is every bit a part of our future,...I guess it's all in how you play it while your'e doing the now.

Oh, Mercy, Mercy me...things aint what they used to be...
Miss you guys. Miss Belgium and the rest. Love mrs p

Anonymous said...

Murph and Freeacre, clearly as you have seen there is definite interest in continueing with the conversation here at your blog by those interested, and I would well imagine there are veiwers who would feel the same but are not inclined to comment.

You guys have covered alot of ground over the time of this place and rehashing old ground is not that enticing for obvious reasons, and yet lot of new events are unfolding quickly, with an endless stream of more to come, so I the conversation on the various subjects folks are interested in sharing about it all will I think flow quite easily.

Considering the main postings, various subjects will pop into your mind on this or that as time passes ( and others may have contributions too ) and you should view it as a sharing of what is currently on your mind with us, regarding the ideas that are moving you to speak in that time. Even if the main post is even shorter at times or comes less often I think the comments section will still see an abundance of shared ideas on the many subjects of our quickly changing world situation.

I think people appreciate coming in from the storm going on around us to sit by your campfire to commune on those issues we all collectively deem important :-) Heck, Rockpicker alone could keep the comment sections well supplied with just a little fill in from the rest of us :-)

Of course do what ever feels right for you guys :-)

HSW

murph said...

HSW, Mrs. P,

Heh heh, will answer both in one comment.

I agree with what you both are saying. It is interesting to me to observe the thought process I go through on a post. Something catches my attention that will motivate me to write about it. Inverably, If I don't write it within a couple of hours, it goes drifting away into nothing. Also, if I write a post and don't put it up for around a week, I will often rewrite it several times, adding and subtracting stuff parts and then send it to freeacre to peruse. On a few occasions I have written a post in an hour and posted it. Doesn't happen very often I'll say.

I didn't post a comment on Greer's site because by the time I read it it had well over 100 comments. Plus, his next post did a lot of qualification on the previous post that I was writing about. His second post I didn't have much to offer on it. There is one other aspect also. I used to blast away at writers that I thought were being very inaccurate, misleading, or way to fanciful. For the most part, it sort of feels like spitting in the wind and I just don't do it much anymore, unless I run onto something political in nature that I get furious about. lol.

Mrs. P, the movie "ON The Beach" is well done also. Follows the book pretty well, especially concerning the theme.

Thank you for your comments.

rockpicker said...

HSW, This one is for you.

http://www.snotr.com/video/7331/The_Living_Bridge

rockpicker said...

Science fiction?

http://www.brasschecktv.com/videos/the-secret-government/the-staged-alien-invasion-threat.html

Anonymous said...

RP, That video was magnificent and inspiring :-) Thanks for the link. I really love the sound of various indigenous language, of people of the forest :-) This video reminds me of music I appreciate greatly, like for example that of Deep Forest, Comparsa. Here is one example but any of their work is mesmerizing. You can preview the songs too:

http://www.amazon.com/Comparsa-Deep-Forest-III/dp/B000002C3J/ref=pd_sim_m3

Or Karunesh, Secrets Of Life:

http://www.amazon.com/Secrets-Life-Karunesh/dp/B00006G89W/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1316291090&sr=1-1

I am carried away into the pristine forest to commune with its inhabitants on myriad paths of complex rythms and sounds, human and otherwise :-) Some lyrics in one of the Deep Forest songs goes something like this:

" In the forest, there are these little men, and women, some say they are our past, but maybe, maybe, they are our future "

I get the same wonderful feelings watching that video of those forest people making that amazing Living Bridge as I do listening to the above mentioned music :-)

On another subject, just wanted to say I truly appreciate your work John, at Survival Acres and all of your diligence over the years to inform people about the great changes to come, and your abundant information on sensible ways to adapt to these transformations. My family bought a one year, four person food supply from you and I found your honesty and responsiblility refreshing in this world of so much dis-honesty and corruption. You have put so much of your time and energy into this endeavor which is sure sign in my book of your great integrity and caring :-)

HSW

Anonymous said...

Here are some thoughts/feelings of mine about what the beautiful people of this world mean to me :-)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/hotspringswizard/6128712336/in/photostream

HSW

rockpicker said...

HSW;

If what Benjamin Fulford is telling David Wilcock is true, awake and aware mankind is taking a HUGE step forward.

http://www.divinecosmos.com/start-here/davids-blog/975-undergroundbases


http://www.windsorstar.com/Windsor%20Rumble%20Intensifies%20loudest%20ever%20been/5391414/story.html#ixzz1XvnWMR9P

Anybody catch this the other day. Folks being awakened in the middle of the night by a loud humming sound no one seems to be able to pinpoint, though one subterranean resident says that noise is vibrating the walls of his apartment. Well, what do you suppose is causing it?

Last I heard, the 'hum' was in Taos. But that was two years ago.

This is not science fiction. This is real data. These images show something unusual. Most natural earthquakes build stress until strata snap, and this increase in pressure usually is registered by local seismographs. Normally, we see a flat line begin to oscillate above and below the median in an increasingly agitated manner before the main 'event'. These are called 'P' waves, and they're absent from the seismogram recorded
by Wash. and Lee U.

http://www.google.com/search?q=Washington+and+Lee+seismogram+of+Virginia+quake+photo&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=mP6&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=3T11TrSDDaLLsQLTrIWMBQ&ved=0CCUQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=626

So let's all hope the forces of the light have actually prevailed on this one and we've all gained a small victory over the dark cabal that threatens all of humankind with its ego-centric density and its unabashed promotion of selfishness.

That is not what we are about.

Or, you would not be reading this now.

rockpicker said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRLabU6TVRY

This would tend to vindicate Helen Caldicott as being an alarmist, I should think.

Anonymous said...

http://www.counterpunch.org/2011/08/05/we-would-rather-die-in-our-dread/

" The present banality of our ecocide-inflicting mode of being — one that reduces the world to only those things that can be commodified and thus reduces earth, sky and psyche to controllable (dreamless and dead) bits. We stare at our appliances as exquisite things are extinguished, forever…mistaking configurations of pixels for the breath and brilliance of the world. "

HSW

rockpicker said...

HS; Check this one out. Came from someone writing in to Kerry, on Camelot. Explains a lot.

http://umc-unofficiallaymanopenforum.ning.com/forum/topics/world-weather-manipulation-through-haarp

Anonymous said...

Hi Murph, your thoughts on SF resonated, first book I read at about 10yrs old was one of Aurthr C Clarkes, I can still imagine getting around some space station on a pogo stick LOL

On Greer, he's a legend in his own mind IMO, a wannabe guru who builds his own paradigm by refusing to listen to others POV on anything that conflicts with his self imagined paradigm. I went right off him when the guru persona reared it's ugly head. Same reason I went off MCR.

For both, I used to think "take what you like and leave the rest" but it got too much a few years back with JMG, anything viewed in a less than objective way is pretty much useless in this crazy world.

glad you're keeping the campfire going btw.

GD

RAS said...

I like Greer. He has a lot of good things to say and his view of the future pretty much mirrors my own. His latest book, The Wealth of Nature is excellent.

That said, like anyone else he has his blind spots, and two of his are around science fiction and space travel. His dislike of SF is almost irrational; I doubt he's ever read much of it and just writes it all off as one sort of wish fulfillment or another (not just sexual, either).

Part of that, I think, is because of his other blind spot: space travel. He won't, under any circumstance, admit that space travel -especially star travel -is possible or plausible. Part of this I understand; as a druid, he is of course concerned with the earth, but he needs to broaden his mind.

I don't think you should shut down the blog, but, if you do, maybe you could start a Yahoo group and only let certain people join it.

-RAS

freeacre said...

Nice to hear from you GD and RAS.

I disagree with murph a little. I think SF movies are very significant, not just the books. Star Trek and Star Wars movies have the basis of a new religious paradigm and social scheme. "The Force Be With You, etc." Uhuru was both black and a woman on the bridge of the Enterprise. That fact alone gave me a glimpse into becoming more than just a teacher or a nurse or a waitress. In those days, jobs were still segregated into Male and Female columns. So many inventions were imagined on Star Trek - the communicator, the non-invasive medical devises, laser stun guns, the replicator, etc. Just the idea that space is filled with life and other species and presenting so many different adventures and possibilities "out there" I believe has had a huge impact on the world. With any luck, it will continue. Favorites: The Abyss, Contact, Avatar, Terminator, Stargate, Star Man, The Postman, Waterworld, Knowing, Total Recall, The Matrix, Minority Report, I, Robot, Blade Runner, Independence Day, and on and on. So much to enjoy.

Anonymous said...

Yeah, fa, and -don't know if you remember this episode of Star Trek,: Kirk, Spock, McCoy, Uhuru and Nurse Chappel were on this planet that mimicked ancient Greece but these Greeks had telekinetic powers, right, which is cool, but Kirk was made or forced (telekineticly) to kiss Uhuru for "long time," -and I think I read that it was the first interracial kiss on prime time. And, I read that William Shatner and the studio took a lot of racist crap from bigoted white folk for a good while after that episode.

Man, when I was watching that episode as a young "Trekee," I thought that Kirk was one lucky captain, because Uhuru was "totally hot."

Later -

-Randy

Anonymous said...

The LEAP/E2020 Crew are citing that its time for all of us to crawl under our rocks in November :-(

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=26614

Global Systemic Crisis: Implosive Fusion of Global Financial Assets
The Worst is Ahead of Us and Very Close!

....So, in November 2011 the United States will brace itself for a politico-financial "perfect storm" that will make the summer problems look like a slight sea breeze....

Rp, I watched that short video with Dutchsinse ( I assume ) talking about the haarp, rings, squares, and weather manipulation. With him saying " I am right about this " regarding that Pisgah Crater supposed eruption, where nothing has or is going on, it does make me skeptical of Dutchnsinse's other prognostications about things. From the info I have seen he seems like a nice enough guy trying to figure things out regarding the topics he covers but I still think he builds many of his premisis based on multi-layered misconceptions on his part.

Now I'm not saying he is wrong on all he might say ( I've only seen some of his info ) and I'm no expert whatsoever on all of that complicated technology like haarp ect, but his air of boldly declaring the Pisgah Crater to have erupted, multiple times as he reported when there is nothing going on there is a real glaring case of making a false claim, and I'd bet that Pisgah stuff is still up at his site.

I still will continue to look at info when I think there may be some merit. Clearly the Haarp system is real and it would not suprise me if the Government Goons are using it in ways that would not be to our liking, that and who really knows for sure what other nefarious things they are involved with too.

As far as the world's weather at this point, while the PTB and their Corps may have projects which could I think achieve limited weather alterations, its my view that the extremes in climate now occuring in abundance are happening because of the CO2 going from 250 PPM in early 1,800's to almost 400 PPM now. I do not think the PTB are steering Hurricanes, creating Tornados, massive worldwide flooding, the intense droughts, forming lows and highs and all the rest. I think if anything these weather modification programs that the differant countries are engaged in have very minimal localized effects.

Thanks for the link though RP, I do look at them, and now I can watch video's too which is real nice :-)

HSW

freeacre said...

I dunno. If TPTB can manipulate weather accurately, why didn't they make it rain before so many homes and so much land was burned up in the Texas wildfires? Or stop the flooding and such...

Did you notice that the Days of Rage on Wall St. got virtually NO COVERAGE in any US New lamestream venue? Had to go to the BBC, Alien Project in Jamaica, RT, to get the story. News and social networking sites had a blackout. So now I might not get my TV's fixed after the lightening storm. I'll get my news from the net. I hope people are at least withdrawing their money from national banks and supporting community banks instead.
There's a bill on Obama's desk, apparently, to make it a felony to misrepresent yourself on the internet. But the banksters can walk away with trillions of our money, and nobody is prosecuted at all. Great job, Holder! You fuck.
And, the Teapartyers view the demonstrators as slackers with their hands out to get the rich people's well-earned riches.
Only in America. Really.

rockpicker said...

I'm re-posting this link because I think it is important that all see and understand what is happening.

http://umc-unofficiallaymanopenforum.ning.com/forum/topics/world-weather-manipulation-through-haarp

Go open up the video Dutchsinse made on Aug. 5, and listen to it. It's only 13 minutes, or so.

In response to his work, someone addressed a complaint to Janet Napolitano and posted it on the DHS blog, asking the department to please do something about Dutchsinse.

Her complaint was based on lies and disinformation, yet there it is, for everyone to read and misunderstand.

It is reminiscent of Hitler youth snitching on parents.

If Dutch can be hounded off the internet for interpreting data supplied by national weather services, (which clearly show radar anomalies that no one else seems to notice or explain,) then no one is immune.

Mr2tuff is being harassed, as are a number of other 'truthtellers.'

I find the talk about science fiction ironic. The real life science 'fiction' taking place all around us must be too mundane, or just not sufficiently packaged.

If Dutch's expose` on the HAARP patents isn't enough to convince you of the capabilities the military/industrial complex has for manipulating weather, and other such absurdities, well, I certainly don't have a chance.

murph said...

Folks,

Interestingly, George Ure this morning had a link to a discussion of one of the subjects of the post, perceptions of time, past, present and future. For those so inclined to dive into the implications and the arguments going on over the subject see;
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/time-experience/#4

LOL May be more than you want to know on the subject.

Anonymous said...

FB

After my self imposed exile I lost touch with GEAB, thanks for reminding me of it again.
An economic spokesman for the EU has just been on the news saying something along the following lines – sorry I could not type as fast as he was speaking.
“As the sovereign debt crisis worsens banks may be need to be re-financed. Measures must be taken to ensure this is not necessary. “
He won't get an argument out of me on that one – until they do that is.

Anonymous said...

FB

Forgot to mention that my son in law who recently moved from one side of Belgium to the more countrified other side had to leave his job with the atomic energy because it was too far to commute. He got a job working for an Italian company that had just set up a formaldehyde plant. Now a four to six month old plant has closed down for good because its owners cannot get a credit line from their Italian bankers. Son in law has thrown himself onto the system to do a retraining program.

Will reply to the post and Murphs comment probably tomorrow.

sats

Anonymous said...

RP, I do notice the various radar anomolies but do not draw the same conclusions about their cause as Dutchsinse does. Also what I've noticed is that Dutchsinse in my view references various forms of info like diagrams, radar images, etc and starts speaking about their meaning in subject areas where I seriously doubt he has any professional knowledge of these things such that he draws erroneous premis's. Also something that should be noted is that there are lots and lots of patents out there that are never put into real life operational use. So Dutchsinse is looking at various technologici patents and associated diagrams but does he now if that patent has ever been implemented in real life? He talks is if it has when I don't think he truly knows this.

Now I don't like that Dutchsinse or the other person you mentioned RP are being harrassed, but, you can't take the issue of them being harrassed as proof that these people are necesarily correct in what they cite. There are lots of folks out there with myriad points of view who go after eachother in various ways and it varies ( depending on your point of view ) on which side or the other ends up being more right/accurate about what they are stating. I'm just bringing up some points of consideration here about Dutchsinse and realize RP that you hold his prognostications to be legit. I will continue to look into and consider your links and info RP :-)

Sats, Regarding GEAB I noticed in that article I listed that they are citing that its a fabrication that Greece is ready to default. Sure looks like they are getting ready to crash from the other internet info I have seen. I don't know why GEAB is making that assertion. Maybe I missed the reason in the article so maybe someone else here knows why they stated that.

HSW

freeacre said...

Well, we may have something even more immediate to look forward to: possible interaction with the incoming comet Elenin on Friday. It seems that many of the world leaders (including Obama and the congress) will be at recess or in a disaster training exercise in Denver over the weekend. Go to this page and watch the video:

http://www.in5d.com/world-leaders-will-be-in-recess-during-elenin-alignment-september-26-27-2011.html

The dates have been moved up a few times, since the electromagnetics from the Sun have caused it to move faster.

As usual, I have no real idea if this will actually happen. But, it might just be "Hammer Time."

Oh, yeah, and assuming that we all survive, the new Half Past Human report is out and it projects that the revolution begins in October. Whooee! Ride the slide!

freeacre said...

Well, rats! The date moving to the 23rd might be the falling of the satellite debris that's also headed our way. Damn! It's getting confusing to be trying to dodge all this stuff. Need a lead helmet. The tin foil is not going to do it.
http://www.spaceweather.com/

Anonymous said...

Blimey Freeacre, that's some level of "coincidence" on that link, I don't believe in coincidence when it comes to TPTB!

I read the new HPH report before I went to bed last night, that's some serious DOOM! I had the strangest dream last night too, I was in a massive warehouse taking inventory of long term food stores on a clipboard, I was in a panic because there just wasn't enough, and this was a massive warehouse stacked 5 pallets high, I never got to the end of it, couldn't even see the end of the isles, woke up sweating cobs 1/2 hour early. It is very rare I dream anything I can remember, it all seemed so real too, very strange.

Murph, have you ever read Replay by Ken Grimwood? One of my all time favourite SF stories, it popped into my head while reading the HPH report, all that inter-dimensional stuff.

GD (gamedog)

rockpicker said...

Here's another one we can all have fun with...

http://www.in5d.com/world-leaders-will-be-in-recess-during-elenin-alignment-september-26-27-2011.html

murph said...

Gamedog,

The book title doesn't sound familiar to me, may have read it some time ago but don't remember it. Have to get a copy and see.

One of my favorites is "The Probability Broach" concerning parallel universes. "Infinity Hold" is another.

RP,

In that link, coincidence or not? We haven't long to wait to find out I reckon.

Anonymous said...

Murph, I saved that link you mentioned to read later when I get a chance:
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/time-experience/#4

Looks interesting :-)

HSW

Anonymous said...

FB

This from a Belgian news in English site

Belgium to exchange terrorist info with US

Tue 20/09/2011 - 16:55 Belgium and the United States have agreed to exchange DNA, finger prints and other biometric data belonging to serious criminals and terrorist SUSPECTS. The countries' two governments have just signed a deal to this effect.

The accord will allow investigators to exchange a wealth of biometric and biographical data. This should facilitate the search for terrorist suspects as well as serious criminals.

The Belgian Justice and Interior Ministers signed the agreement on behalf of Belgium. For the US Attorney-General Eric Holder put his signature under the deal.

The Belgian Foreign Ministry insists that the accord contains sufficient guarantees to protect people's privacy.

Belgium is the 20th country to conclude such an agreement with the US. Earlier Germany, the Netherlands and Finland.

Notice the use of the words suspects. Over here police set up random road blocks and all drivers stopped have to submit to a breath test for alcohol. So in this respect everyone is a suspect. There is no hiding place.

People refer to the police who operate these road blocks as "The Vodka"???

Anonymous said...

Dutch has a new post showing radar anamolies and predicting sever weather, if anyone is interested.

http://www.youtube.com/user/dutchsinse

-rockpicker

Anonymous said...

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad tells the truth about the western powers, now if only enough of the other nations would act upon what he suggest. The UN is spinless and just a tool of Nato/US, doing their biding. The disgusting scum that are the western leaders walk out because they can't stand the truth being put in their face. Of course the MSM as the slimey minions of the PTB do all they can to demonize MA in today's corporation controlled news. Here's the link to the transcript from MA's speech:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article29193.htm

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Addresses United Nations General Assembly

HSW

Anonymous said...

FB

HSW, you won't get an argument out of me on that one. How long has MA been the boss of Iran now, longer than anyone in the States has been in power I believe. I remember when he first got the job and people found his name difficult so we used to call him President Ivadinnerjacket. That showed him due respect. I think if I won the lottery, I would put most of the money into the bank of Iran for safe keeping. It wouldn't make much but it wouldn't loose much either. There again you have to be in it to win it. Did you hear that Moodys have lowered the rating of a Belgian bank KBC so the slide has started. Back to MA, I think the nations that take part in these set piece walkouts show themselves up in front of the world. They are saying “We are the intollerent ones”. If MA stood up and said “Free ice cream for all Hilary's children and grandchildren for ever”, they would still walk out just because it is him. Anyway, I hope he keeps on saying it for a long time. There again it is not all one sided and clear cut as it appears, Iran has its own problems too which could be relatively easily solved with a bit of will power. Rather than go into that here I am going to point you to a film review that I wrote recently on roughly the same subject.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0499166/

The film is called It's Winter by director Rafi Pitts. Scroll down to User Reviews and click on 'see all user reviews' Mine is the one titled Social Relevance.

Anonymous said...

Hey, look'in around the WWW and there's some hub-bub about a mega-death terror exercise in Denver this weekend or early next week AND the congresscritters and senatewhores all outta town -with their whores, maybe? Plus, a good many other government officials supposedly visiting their mansions in the country, etc.

Anyone else get any news of impending DOOM this weekend? This comet coming to drop a load on our sorry asses?

Better stock up on beer, just in case.

-Randy

lucretiasheart said...

I agree with you about scifi Murph. Its not all for teenage males and I think too many in the movie and TV "syfy" genre forget this. I also agree that its the idea of how people live and organize themselves that is part of what I enjoy the most about reading either scifi, or for that matter, pure fantasy. Alternative worlds with people-- what happens? Whether its a serious thought-provoking trip or a fun ride, it has worth aside from dreams of US going to space some day.

Glad you're sticking around a while longer!

rockpicker said...

Dutch hits another one on his severe weather prediction.

http://www.youtube.com/user/dutchsinse#p/u/0/vTUfEzSEXV0

Also, more info on the Pisgah crater plumes.

-rp

freeacre said...

Randy, you want doom? I got your doom right here! Somebody on godlikeproductions made a great list of all the doom projections for Sept. Then, more are added in the comments. Plus, you can add the electromagnetic surges from the recent CME's from the Sun...

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1620113/pg1

Keeping an eye on Denver...

Anonymous said...

FB

I think one of Wizards comments hit the spam box - maybe?