Friday, May 10, 2013

UPDATES AND DISCUSSION







Part of the fire damage

From Murph

For those that are not aware of it, we had a devastating fire over a week ago at our place.   I would compare the mental state similar to not being home and someone coming in and stealing all of the stuff that is valuable to your life and never recovering it.   The fire destroyed the garage/shop, greenhouse and 4 other out buildings including an uninsured 20 ft travel trailer.  Every single one of my power tools burned up and a whole lot of other stuff also, a stash of tools collected over 50 years.   The house came close to burning down too.   All the animals didn’t have a problem.   It could have been much worse I suppose.  

I have been involved in a fire once before back in the 80’s when I then lost a whole bunch of custom made tools and equipment.   If you haven’t had a major fire in your life or a loved one hasn’t either, it is difficult to comprehend the physical and emotional loss.   For us, because of our chosen life style, it is huge.   Plus, we were underinsured to begin with.   We know that, at least eventually, we will make a decision about what we will do in the future.    For right now, we are devastated and somewhat out of equilibrium and we find it difficult to make decisions.    

Because of the insurance companies loses due to arson fires to collect insurance, it is not easy to get reimbursed by the companies.   Everything is now dragged out for what seems an excessive length of time while the company dithers about and does not make a decision.   They want to make damned sure that it wasn’t set deliberately to collect from them.   So cleanup keeps getting delayed.   Hopefully, it will be resolved this week.  

Nina, had a neat post up on the 19th of April about life’s tests:  http://deepintoartlifewest.blogspot.com/.  
I reckon we got ours big time.  Due to our age and what that entails, starting over seems to be a monumental and impossible problem.   Enough so that we have decided not to do a food garden this year.   Just too much on our plate to deal with it.   I do not currently have a place to put anything salvageable or purchased to get it out of the weather and I can’t do anything about it until the cleanup is done.   Neighbors, friends and organizations we belong to have offered help in the cleanup and maybe some of building if there is enough money from the insurance to do so.   Our paying forward in the community for the last 8 years does have some dividends. 

Here is a link of video after the fire

OK, enough on that subject.

It has been a while since I have done any opinion writing on this blog.   It seems that we are continually bombarded with information much of which can be legitimately questioned, principally, information from the government concerning economics and demographics.   I know that there will be strong disagreement with some of my more generalized statements on such subjects, but I still think there is strong arguments made for concepts like; world overpopulation, rapidly decreasing inexpensive resources, overt and extreme contamination of the environment, poisoning of the food sources, damaging extremism in every quarter, a general decrease in living standards in the western countries, lying to their populations by all governments, the financialization of everything, (I wonder when there will be a tax on breathing), climate change and the list goes on and on.  I make an attempt to keep up on the counter arguments for all of this.  Because I am not an insider on anything going on in the list, all I can do is take in the information that different folks present on these kinds of subjects.  Because I find the “expert information (opinions)” is often highly suspect I cannot depend on them for accuracy.  It appears to me that the best we can do is take in as much information as we have time for and then reach tentative conclusions, and I emphasize the term TENTATIVE.   I say this, because over time we may find that our conclusions were wrong by the evidence of events that actually take place, and that depends on how accurate the reporting is of those events because we aren’t there in person observing it.  

For instance, the major events in the last 10 years or so starting with 9-11 indicate to me that we are experiencing major big time government false flag manipulated events designed to keep the majority of the population fearful and insecure.   These show up in what appears as an escalation of absolutely crazy types of behavior that are very destructive on life and property.   Folks on the scene or folks that bother to do in depth research into such events are casting extreme doubt on the official explanations of what actually happened.   And, of course, their information can be highly suspect also.   Sandy Hook and Boston bombing are two such examples.   It has turned out that photographs and videos are no longer proof of much of anything anymore, too easy to doctor or outright falsify them or make incorrect assumptions on what they show by selective release of them.   

We also need to throw into these observations the personal bias that each of us has.   This controls to a large extent how we view contradictory information and what we choose to believe is true.   For me, it is the distrust of authorities and questioning anything they do or say.   My life experiences have not been particularly positive concerning authorities control (or attempts at control) over my life.  

Another concept that can be thrown into the mix is the vast increase in the complexity of our lives.   Voluntary compliance with all the complexity is nearly a full time job now days.   It didn’t used to be that way.    I’m a grumpy old fart and I have a strong tendency to resent and push back on all of this complexity.    I want my life to be fairly simple and the push to make it complex I find immensely irritating.   This is one reason that we don’t use social media, cell phones, and an overwhelming amount of other supposed “conveniences”.  To me, they have far over reached a point of diminishing returns wherein I would spend way more time dealing with these “conveniences” than getting done what I need and want to get done.    This applies to gathering information, principally from the web.   I do not want pop up news bites when I go on the web similar to the news bites on the popular TV news sites.    The selectivity and headlines are much more propaganda than real news for me to ponder.    So to simplify my information gathering, I have selected sites (biases) that I frequent that seem to me to be reliable and informative without the propaganda, and I realize that there is the possibility of inaccurate information, invalid opinions and status quo shills writing what I read or producing the videos that I take the time to view.   In other words, I take with some grains of salt what I come across or what is sent to me.    All to frequently, cross checking of information for validity is way too time consuming and/or impossible to validate.  

I consider the financial reports as falling into these kinds of categories.   The government consistently puts out data on all kinds of stuff that directly has internal contradictions and interpretations that appear contradictory to real life observations.   The employment figures are a prime example.   So is the reliance on stock market indicators as an indication of the health of the economy.    Frankly, I think that we have been lied to so much that none of it can be taken at face value.   None of this is new.   It was also going on during the last great depression.   Historically, it has been going on in every government since we have records of it.   In essence, those in power and have great wealth have bull shitted us for our whole lives and their mixture of facts and fiction leave us confused as to the actual situation.   On a personal basis, our hassles with the insurance company over this fire is another example.   We have conflicting goals.   The company wants to pay out as little as possible and we want max payout to us.   The consequence is that they are stonewalling us and hope we will get desperate and take a cash-out as settlement.   Sigh.  

I’m sure most of our readers have similar stories. 





126 comments:

seekerr said...

All states have an insurance oversight program. If you tell them that you are being denied, delayed and obstructed, they are required to contact individual company to assess claim. This is usually a fairly effective goad to said company to get moving. HOPE this helps. Regards.Seeker



seekerr said...

I am new to this site.I am new to interacting with people on the internet. This site was offered to me by a person whose intellect and eclectic frame of reference has challenged and stimulated me. I am a private person and don't talk about my belief systems or interests with anyone,even intimates. I am green and grassroots oriented. I want the interactive balance of earth restored. I believe that individual effort and belief can sway greater events. I am reading back on your information and perceptions so that I can be heard and also learn. The poems are haunting... different meanings being gleaned each time a phrase is reread. Looking forward to this journey. Regards. Seeker

murph said...

Seeker,

Welcome to the campfire. Interacting is not at all difficult and to some extent, want a bit of thick skin if you are challenged about something. Happens all the time, although we insist that disagreements not become personal attacks and that is very common on the web. I've had it happen to me on this site and other sites that I have commented on. We sort of visualize the Indian way of discussion or arguing about something in that we pass the talking stick and everyone listens to understand what is being said. We take the attitude that everyone has a piece of the puzzle and when we put all the pieces together we have a more complete picture for all of us.

Anyway, welcome.

murph said...

Seeker,

We finally got in contact with the adjusters supervisor. Then things started happening. We can now start the cleanup. I wasn't aware of an oversight part of the state government. We may yet contact them.

See how easy this is?

freeacre said...

Welcome, Seeker. Plenty of room at the cyber Campfire. I am freeacre, wife of murph. Thank you for letting us know of the oversight program. We will look into it.

We attempt to follow the tradition process of each person passing a "talking stick" and speaking whatever is true or interesting to them. No need to press for agreement, or hold on to a position that no longer seems right. No one has all of the truth, but together, we can share what we know and put together some sort of wisdom. Plus, we have come to be important to one another.
We are into localized food production, "green" ideals, freedom, preparation for possible collapses of one sort of another, and shunning the greater consumer culture, for the most part. We probably have a lot in common, although it is not required. I'm curious about what you mean when you say, "I want the interactive balance of earth restored."
Sounds good to me.

Anonymous said...

Gd@whitewater fraggle: I replied to your question on the last post so as not to derail this one ;)

Murph, Fa: Blimey, that video shows the scale of devastation, I hope you get the green light to start clearing up soon, I can only imagine the feeling you get looking at that first thing every morning when you get up.

Trying to think of a way to turn this into a positive, do you know any experienced Permaculture designers? Put the feelers out if not. You have a good opportunity to redesign the whole plot from scratch, I could help if I was over there, but not really from this side of the pond, besides a few tips or a working methodology so you could go at it yourselves.

Are you ready to start designing/planning yet? If so, and you would like some help from me, I can start writing some planning advice, it would have to be via email I think as it might be very wordy. To provide the best input I could, eventually I would need an accurate plan of the site, an image grab from google earth with boundaries drawn on and a map with contours shown, or something similar, I wouldn't need this to provide a methodology though.

Seeker: welcome to the campfire. Gd.

murph said...

Gd,

First a reply to your last reply on the previous posting concerning climate change. For me, it is irrelevant what the cause is for the most part. If we were able to assert with absolute certainty that climate change was anthropomorphic, it would make no difference at all because humans are not going to change what they do until they have to. Humans, as a group, seem to be unable to plan and act on problems down the road with effectiveness. If climate change is only going through a natural cycle, it again makes no difference because our technology is not going to make it different. It sure appears to me that humans are simply not able to think in terms of global changes, but only on regional or local changes, which is mostly ineffective.

For me, the really important question is; how is the climate changing and are we able to predict how severe it will be and how is it going to affect all life on the planet, particularly human life. What I am seeing to a large extent is that extending the changes we are observing into the future means a global catastrophe. It really makes no difference whether it is human caused or not. It does appear to be changing. We do have reasons to say that climate changes in the past were devastating to life on this planet. Is this another cycle of that extreme?

About permaculture. Yes, we have a few folks around here that make the claim that they are permaculture educated. There is a multitude of videos, articles and papers on different aspects of permaculture available in books and on the web. Some of them impress me as so wildly impractical that we couldn't possibly use them. Almost all of the permaculture advise I have seen is for completely different environments than what we have to deal with, not all of course.

I am impressed with two aspects of the permaculture advise. One; it is expensive, two; it involves a huge amount of work to set it up. As it applies to us, we have only a small amount of financial ability to implement most of it, and I am getting old enough that the amount of labor involved is no longer within my physical ability.

When we moved here, I was not happy with the way the original owners laid out the property with placement of buildings and the infrastructure involved. This fire and destruction will indeed allow us to change some of it if financially feasible. With some help, I have begun some of those changes. However, redesigning the whole acre of land is simply not going to happen. We do not have those kinds of resources any longer. Believe me, if I had the resources, I would do it.

I don't think I have the stuff to supply a detailed map of the property. LOL. There are no contours to depict, all of it is almost level. If you went to google maps and put in 51427 cedar rd, LaPine Oregon, you could see an aerial map of the property which probably wouldn't tell you much useful information, and the map is not new enough to show the fire damage and loss of outbuildings.

You may have forgotten, but I have mentioned before that the whole acre is sitting on a minimum of 35 ft of volcanic ash. Pine trees and bitter brush the primary plant life. We do have a fenced in 1500 ft garden that has had truckloads of soil amendments added so it will grow something else and we had two greenhouses shown on the map. Now only one that is in a different location. As I mentioned in the post, we are not going to try and grow food this year, just too much other have-to jobs to get done with limited time.

If I can make the time, I will get a send-able rough layout of what we currently have and see what you have to say about it. Or, if I can get it made, can send a copy by land mail.

nina said...

MY GAWD! How did it happen?

It appears your house, computers and animals are fine, great blessings and you also have a sudden wealth of ash fertilizer that will help you down the road next season. Perhaps you can get into town and hire a couple of unemployed helpers, you know the ones who wait for day jobs outside Home Depot, etc., to sift the rubble with you and clear the debris, haul it to the dump, maybe get them a tent for the duration to avoid the commute and daily orientations.

After this shock, surely a great healing is coming your way.

Just accept that the industry is not going to help very much and this is in both of your capable hands. My experience with these groups was made so unbearable I accepted their terms just to get out from under the added misery they so brutally inflict. We don't really know if they are working some massive scheme to increase income disparity. All I really know is that whomever is "it" is never put back quite the same again. Try to wrap it up quickly and get on with your projects, don't look back. Be thankful for your lives. There really will come a time you will have a working property again.

Sending my love, empathy and prayers, lots of each.

PS: Please make a list of items that were lost that you need to replace. There very well may be people reading that can send you some of these things. Also, its time to put a (temporary if you want) donation link on your blog so we can send whatever $ we can spare.

I would say you all are in a far better position to move ahead than most of the Sandy and Katrina victims, wouldn't you? Just put your goals on hold for a little while and roll up your sleeves while you build new goals.

Anonymous said...

Murph, the most probable "climate change" you'll experience is a return to the weather you were getting locally c.60 yrs ago, I expect that will be heading colder than recent yrs, but not catastrophic, unless the area you live in was uninhabitable c.30-60yrs ago. Personally I only have around 30yrs left on this planet, I'll be checking out at the bottom of the cycle IMO, implications for me are about super-insulation, cold tolerant plant species, hoop houses/greenhouse etc.

"extending the changes we are observing into the future means a global catastrophe"

What are these changes you are talking about? What are these specific observations? Are you certain they have not been observed before? Why do you seem so sure changes mean catastrophe?

We are talking about a sinusoid type change over c.60yrs, with a 6-8yr climate response lag, we're over the peak of the wave and heading back down, c. 30yrs warming, c. 30yrs colling. The "more devastating" weather meme is just that, a meme, not reality, weather has always had these extremes, the only way to get some perspective on what it means for you is to look at local weather history and note the cyclic patterns, this will provide the best predictive info for your location.

"Global temperature" is a useless ABSTRACT metric, easily manipulated, and of zero value, weather cycles are local phenomena (as in local to parts of the planet, rather than within a few miles local) dominated by ocean cycles, add up the lots of local weather and we get a "global climate" an ABSTRACT metric, of zero value, besides propaganda of course. Remember it was only c. 35 yrs ago they were predicting an ice age, this was the bottom of the last cycle. So, I just don't buy this "catastrophic" meme at all. I refuse to look at it in the frame provided by the manipulators, because it is a useless metric, a frame/perspective the manipulators want us to use to prevent us seeing the reality. Remember all the headlines talking about "since records began" is bunkum, mostly they refer to the satellite record, i.e. since the 70's, bottom of the last cycle, other "records" only go back c. a hundred yrs, again look at more generalized historical evidence that goes back further, spot the cycles. See a headline about "hottest temp since records began" note the temp, then look back and find the closest temp to that number, recent records here 1998 (cold and hot) were broken, I looked back and found 1940 temps were within 1000th of a degree, the record was only broken by 1000th of a degree, the absurdity is that these records were recorded to the nearest 1 degree, it's bunkum mate, propaganda to sell a fear meme, a control meme. Course the nuclear/pollution/GMO angle are different conversations we probably don't disagree much on, except perhaps how long it could take to recover the situation with the correct actions.

Permaculture: I agree it can be expensive, I've seen some expensive designs (not to mention some of the fees charged by "corporate PC designers") BUT it can also be free/cheap. I have never charged for a design, but then I've never done commercial designs, if some farmer with a few hundred acres wanted a design I would charge, because it would take a few months of my time, but anyone in my local with an acre who'd just gone through a devastating fire would get a lot of my time for nothing if they were on board with the idea of it, we're talking about 1-2 weeks work here. I am certain there are people over there in the PC community who share my POV on this. We're not all "corporate permaculture designers", during my (costly) Regen-Ag course there were around 40 people, only 6 or 7 of them intended to set up a business model of it IMO, not that either perspective is bad, just different IMO. con't next post Gd.

Anonymous said...

When you talk of "wildly impractical" you are talking about "elements" of a design, not the practice of design it's self. There are a lot of videos/papers showing tropical food forests for e.g., and if you look at it from an "element" perspective it would be impractical in your location, but the design principles of it apply globally, on any scale, from the smallest patio to multi-acre plots. Permaculture is a design science mimicking natures patterns, not a collection of "elements" within a design. You could use (and people have) permaculture to design a non earth based project, e.g. a music studio, a people project like a co-op, a house, or a workplace or business.

You say your plot has no contours to depict, yet it is only "almost level" Water will not flow far in a desired direction on level ground, but it will flow on almost level ground, so it is very important to design water storage at/near the top contour, and know where it will flow, so you can guide it, or you can spend a great deal of time with a watering can, this a is a choice you make at the design stage ;) This is important for all "energy flows" compost can be looked at as an energy flow too, or you may end up wheeling a barrow up hill all the time.

A lot of work to set up: Yeah true, imagine a graph with two lines on forming an "X" with time across the bottom, one is "work" one is "yield" up the left side axis, your work line goes from top to bottom across the graph, your "yield" line goes from bottom to top across the graph. The more work you do in time, the more yield you get, as time goes on you get MUCH more yield and MUCH less work, but yeah, in the beginning it can seem like a lot of work, but it pays off bigtime when it is established as you sit on your arse between collecting your yields :)

If you get the design work done now you can tailor your projects to fit the plan, over a longer time if that's the way it works, you're going to have to do the work anyway at some point, why not do it to a plan that it makes the whole better than the sum of it's parts?

I was thinking last night (who needs sleep eh!!) about how impractical it is to do a design in a zone I'm not familiar with, trying to choose plants/trees I'm not familiar with, and without actually setting foot on the land, this will be very difficult, it will need a hell of a lot of your input, so you'd need to be onboard with it, and be prepared to do a lot of it yourselves with some guidance, it would help a great deal if you can find someone local who has at least done the 14 day PC designers course who can visit your site and work with us both to produce a good design. Gd.

Anonymous said...

OK Murph, the google map is quite useful, just need to get an idea of the boundaries. Is your plot a square with two sides on Cedar Rd and Juniper Rd taking in the cemi-circle in/out turning drive from Cedar Rd, or more rectangle going down to 6th St?

Where would you say is the highest contour on the plot and which way is downhill (even if only a few inches) are any of the roads higher than your land (even by a few inches) Any storm drains from the road? Do you know your annual rainfall figures? Where is the prevailing wind from in summer and winter?

What is your current water source, mains, well, etc. Current sewage provision, cesspit, septic tank, mains etc.

Do you know you lat/long (I can get this from google if you don't know)

What can you tall me about your local climate? Gd.

Anonymous said...

Murph, found a topographical map which indicates (ish) your high spot might be the SW corner, sloping off to the NE/ENE and your lat/long around N43.66837° W121.52894°

Are you anywhere near Lane County Community Collage? They seem to run (Free) events where you might find some PC contacts, and be able to source free fruit trees/plants etc. Check out this page for info http://springpropagationfair.com/ I found the link on the Mushroom Permaculture community page

I appreciate I may be teaching you to suck some eggs here as you might well know these folks already from your community contacts, but I'm working in the dark a bit here ;) Gd.

Anonymous said...

Murph, what do you think of this design as an example plan type thing, which doesn't seem too far from you... http://www.beaverstatepermaculture.com/photo/permaculture-plan-little

I appreciate they spent a fair bit on it, but there are elements in it worthy of thought, bear in mind there are low cost alternatives to the expensive stuff, but as an example of a plan to work to (with completely different elements) would it be worth producing something along those lines? Gd.

Anonymous said...

I had a thought that a local PC teacher could use your plot as a teaching exercise for a course, but they seem to be spread far and wide, the nearest I could find was in Ashland @ http://www.restorationseeds.com/ found from http://www.sopermaculture.org/SOPI/Courses.html

wondered weather it was worth you guys getting PC educated and running your own course in time, has potential to provide some income, check out the SOPI site for some insight.

Hey, I'm just chucking stuff out there, I appreciate this might not be for you, but if you get enough ideas something might stick :) Gd.

murph said...

Gd,

Answering all of what you have posted on the blog would be futile IMO.

Send email to; sunrise3@coinet.com

Will then try and respond to this.

Anonymous said...

well, thats one of your best essays murph. but, first things first... that vid is heartbreaking! everything gone!! sittin here tryin to think of some way i can help from here. would a field tent come in handy for temp stg to keep anything salvagable and stuff yer sure to begin to re-accumulate out of the weather? i'll be happy to check out all your local disaster relief sources to see if i can find you one. went online this morn and there are possibilities that look promising. wadda ya say? ...p

Anonymous said...

this is posted on the sherrif's dept site...

4. RECOVERY: Recovering from an emergency

a. Includes actions taken to return to a normal or an even safer situation following an emergency;
b. Recovery includes getting financial assistance to help pay for the repairs;
c. Actions may include:
i. Performing damage assessments
ii. Crises counseling
iii. Debris clearance
iv. Resolving health issues
v. Requesting State and/or federal assistance

http://sheriff.deschutes.org/Special-Services/Emergency-Management/

Anonymous said...

there's a time to give and a time to receive. ask, and you shall receive....

murph said...

Thanks everyone for suggestions and information. I have an innate mental handicap in that I hesitate and resist asking for help for most of my life. I guess I just don't like being dependent on other folks.
\
Thanks P for the offer. Time is short to follow through on a lot of stuff and I am having to depend on others for a lot of it.

Anonymous 9:34

You are right. Although receiving is always a tenuous thing. Many folks will offer but when the rubber meets the road don't or can't follow through. I understand this and know what it comes from. It is one of the reasons why I try and be very careful about offers to help folks. Want to make sure I can follow through if they ask.

At this particular time, I am focused on getting what I hope is salvageable stuff under cover to prevent further deterioration until I can actually find out what can be recovered to usefulness. It could turn out that in may cases, making it useful again would be more expensive than buying new. Lots of stuff that I have used so infrequently that I doubt I'll replace. A $100 tool that I use maybe once year that will cost $30 to renovate is a waste I imagine. And, of course, if it has to be purchased, it will be on a need to use basis piecemeal. You can imagine that after 50 years of tool accumulation I I had a lot of redundancy. All of the power tools are gone. One of first things I just had to have was a 18 V battery screwdriver. I bought a cheap one, $40 on sale and extra battery. sigh Hope it holds up for a while. I really don't like a lot of Harbor Freight stuff. A lot of it is way cheapo and goes bad or upkeep is expensive. However, I got a feeling they are going to be doing business with me for quite a while, especially if I get a shop rebuilt. Debating on how much use I would get out of a wire feed welder that I know I am going to need periodically. Decisions, decisions.

whitewater fraggle said...

Just got back from kayaking some huge white water in eastern Washington. I love the snow melt cycle.

@GD, I look forward to reading your reply tomorrow at work.

@Murph and Free acre: when you guys have time or just want ot get away for a while, you should road trip up to Washington and I will take you guys rafting on the Wenatchee.

Anonymous said...

murph... i hear ya. some folks wanna help but you might rather they not. personally, i have issues around asking and/or receiving. most folks do i think. don't know how yer lookin at it but i see it as tenuous cuz there's so much uncertainty around it. kinda like finding oneself on the hot seat. the whole damn thing is wrought with issues. not just for you guys. but for folks who want to help but also want to honor whatever boundaries you may have about it.

as to the needs... you guys have just experienced a major disaster! i have to ask (pun intended, : - )... as much as you guys have given? c'mon... yeah, we live in this rathole wrought with take take take. BUT, life's about giving and receiving.

most are pretty good with the former. cuz, hell, it feels good to help someone in need when yer in a position to do so. hell i know a buncha folk in the boogie family who help that are anything but in a position to do so. but they do it anyway. cuz thats how they're made. a struggler wants to help a fellow struggler.

but we stumble over the latter when the time comes. i have no idea what the appropriate protocal would be by good mannered folk with good judgement in these matters and circumstances. all i know is i wanna help if i can and do so in ways that both honor your boundaries and actually answer to your specific needs in real time.

you guys know how it feels to be able to help out a brother or sister. hell, you help even without attaching such an expectation. i can feel that to my bones! giving is instilled with its own rewards. particularly when no strings are attached. and i hope this don't come off like a guilt trip but are you gonna deny us that feelin? those rewards? here's yer chance to GIVE someone the opporturnity to help someone they know and luv. iow, what i'd like right now is the opportunity to help some people i know are in need that i care about if thats at all possible to do without violating boundaries, compromising relationship, or having you feel bad so i can feel good.

so now, how bout that tent? its specific to exactly what you were talking about as a first priority midst clean-up.... temp stg space. i'm available late tues aft-noon to make some calls to your neck of the 100 acre wood where its 2 hours behind my time. if its okay to ask then i'm askin. no guarantees on results. no strings. and its okay to say no without havin to 'splain. so, i understand.. you may not want certain folks around. even to deliver a tent. or any of a gazillion other reasons that don't need pontificatin or justificatin for my benefit.

or maybe a tent is more trouble than worth. maybe what you need is some tarps to cover the mess from the weather and give you time to sort thru it for salvagables.

ok, i'm done. yer turn.... p

freeacre said...

I'm having a hard time reading the comments you guys are making because they are bringing tears to my eyes. My heart is so full from the love and support you are already providing.
No on the tent, p. Actually, my son is already living temporarily in a 10'x20' nice tent that a friend lent to us until the tipi gets set up. We also have two other tents (one huge one) that is in a box that did not get burned up.
We have hired a contractor who is felling trees with a small crew as we speak. They will dispose of the big pieces of metal. After that we will sift through the charcoal once again looking for coins. After that, a 30 yd. dumpster has been donated (saving us $370 or so) by the local garbage company to put the burned stuff into. Three or four people with front-loaders are going to help, plus the crew.
I have already e-mailed the Sheriff's Dept. to inquire what assistance they have for debris cleanup. Thanks, for that info!
Still waiting for the adjuster to interview me. I am armed with the knowledge of the state oversight commission, which I plan to mention if he lays the $50 limit on debris clean-up on me.

I don't feel obligated to make long term plans anymore. I do want to get the tipi set up, as a place for peace of mind and hosting friends for visits or for parties or workshops or whatever.
Carolyn Baker's site right now has a series of articles that are very thought provoking about the inevitability of extinction within a very few years. I don't know how accurate it is, but it is a real mind-number anyway.

http://carolynbaker.net/

I have posted comments to a couple of them. I will probably plant some crab apple trees and whatever fruit or nut bearing trees that can survive our harsh conditions just for the heck of it. Not really making any "perma" plans, as the world is heading for a six degree rise in temperature, so there is no "perma" left.

Have I mentioned how much I love you guys?

Anonymous said...

murph and freeacre the trout clan is here to help any way you wish. just let us know honestly we want to. being a tool guy like you murph that is a hard loss now all the more reason to start new. it is all a big circle and good things are on there way. LOVE

Scrap

murph said...

Hey Scrap,

Thanks. Entirely unsure what physical help the clan could do. Right now it is mostly very dirty physical labor for the clean up and salvage what can be made useful at a later time.

Emotional support is appreciated and confirms our relationships. Sure am looking forward to being finished.

seekerr said...

In starting to read back March and April's topics and feedback, I am amazed at the amount of diverse information and points of view offered. Our society and culture is in a downward arc. Part of the reason that I am looking into this site is to reach out to a smaller,stronger and adaptable group of beings that I can relate to and possibly form a multi-plane community with to face the coming challenges and soul quests that all will be facing. I am a dark horse and will finish the race. The world that we(macro) have unbalanced and misused will have to be changed and nurtured by the micro. I go against the odds and teach my children the same. Be true. Be honorable and respectful to others and to the land and water. There has to be HOPE and belief in restorative change or all truly will be lost. Regards. Seeker

murph said...

Hi Seeker,

I have a tendency to look at doomer sites and see what they say about the future. I gravitate to this because when I take the aggregate information of what is happening it appears that the situation is FUBAR. This is not to say that many of the doom writers aren't way overboard and extreme because many are. Doom has been projected for millennium from a huge variety of sources that simply has not happened. I maintain that if enough folks predict doom long enough, eventually one will be spot on.

It appears to me that the majority of doom projections center around economics and environmental (which includes climate change). The recent guest post on Carolyn Bakers site was one of the extreme predictions, asserting mass extinction, including humans, on this planet.

I presume you have read articles by thoughtful writers concerning "hope". Many of these writers are asserting that "hope" is just another addictive behavior and mental state that is just another form of lying to ourselves. Further that "hope" without action means nothing. Another form of wistful thinking that has no real meaning in the real world. Although, like projections of the future, if enough folks "hope" for something, someone will get it realized and then claim that "hope" works.

Your reaching out and including this site is cool. Although the spread by the participants at this site is geographically so spread out that a community is going to be difficult to identify. Personally, I expect the free use of the internet for communications to either go belly up or become so restrictive (for one reason or another) that cyber communities will also float away into the ether with no chance of becoming physical. This also means that information will suddenly become very spare and subject to a lot of disbelief and cynicism. Rumors will become rampart with no data to check on them. Propaganda by what is left of the mass media will increase exponentially.

I suspect that right now the internet is a real pain in the ass for the PTB and they would like an excuse to shut it up as soon as possible. If that happens, it will be interesting to see what the populations does around that.

I figure that if we as a nation/world keep going in the direction we are on, it is going to get real messy and very destructive.

Charles Smith has had a series of guest posts that are a very interesting perspective. It concerns the concept that "the time is not yet right" for change. That all changes, particularly big changes, have to take place at the right time and that a small group of a population that agitate for change will not make it happen until "the time is right". Worth the read.

Anonymous said...

SATS

Hi Seeker, Welcome to the Campfire. The idea is that we all bask in the warmth of the fire and then we bask in each others reflected warmth, LOL but it is not as daft as I have just made it sound. That should be clear from the offers of help the Murphs have had. The regulars here have acquired a certain level of respect for each other and for each others views. This has been earned over time. As you would expect it is not always a jigsaw fit but there is a broad consensus and the talking stick system does work. From what you say it should not be too long before you are a regular too. I am an ex Brit who married a Belgian Vrouw and that is where I now live. It also why it is so difficult to offer little more than words of comfort and encouragement to Murph and Freeacre when they could mostly do with practical help, no matter how reticent they sound.

Murph and Freeacre sent me the video of the fire by e mail and we have been in touch directly so I have not been hiding away. For those of you who don't know, I decided to throw my minuscule eco-footprint to the four winds and bought a car. It is one of those that looks like a light delivery van but it has windows and fold down seats in the back. One advantage is that I have fastened a doggy cage in the back so the pooches can come some places with us. We have been away to the Black Forest in Southern Germany and when we came back we spent some time at the step daughter's place on the other side of Belgium. Anyway, now I am back.

As for the second half of the post, we have kicked this one around endlessly before. Regarding the contents of glasses, I prefer to say that the first half was delicious and I am hoping the second half will be as refreshing as the first. With that in mind, all I will do is repeat the adage that “Things are never as good as they look and never as bad as they seem.” Having said that, the Precautionary Principle still allows for a bit of gentle prepping.

I am going to leave it here for now. The Murphs know if there is anything I can do from this end they only have to say it.

Aho.


Anonymous said...

SATS

Forgot to say, I don't know if you guys can still get NetFlix or similar? If you have an inkling to know what difficult gardening is all about, try The Naked Island by Kaneto Shindo. It should put your task into perspective. :-) - Yes, I know this is not a time for levity. It is a good film though but not a happy one.

In the early 90's I went to Southern Italy with the hope of buying a tomato purée plant for forwarding to Iraq. I learned that the finest tomatoes in the world are grown in that region. The volcanic ash from Mount Etna combines with the rich soil of the region to produce the best tomatoes. From what you say, that is just the soil you have. I know the light and altitude are different but could you throw a couple of hoop houses up for toms and then bater them on the Grange for other stuff. That's my couple of cents worth.

rockpicker said...

Keewolfmichelle says:
January 18, 2013 at 22:21

"Don’t really know how much more needs to happen before we impeach Obama and try him in court for treason. If the powers that are responsible for handling this refuse to act then they also need to go. The people should not let this slide. We the people must take back control of our gov. or lose it forever"

http://www.politisite.com/2013/01/17/retired-4-star-admiral-blows-whistle-on-benghazi-new-evidence/#.UZR2IEopzKw

SATS; The right soil, and the right conditions. Micro climates-- that's where it's at. Rock or water will provide mass heat retention to extend the season. A rocket mass heater can help, and its relatively cheap to build.

Murph, try this experiment. Take some of your volcanic ash soil and mix it with cement. Three parts v.a. to one part cement. Add just enough water to make a play-dough ball and pack it into a brick shape. Let it dry and harden. When it's cured, fire it with an acetylene torch. Good chance it will vitrify to a beautiful green-blue glass. Doesn't take much heat. If that happens, you're blessed.

rockpicker said...

Well, duh.

"To be absolutely clear, that is not hyperbole nor is it speculation. It’s a fact that the corporate media is now openly admitting their reporting on the Benghazi scandal over the last 8 months has been merely the parroting of statements given by government officials who were merely echoing talking points issued by the CIA."

http://beforeitsnews.com/media/2013/05/media-now-openly-admitting-the-government-controls-the-news-2456346.html

rockpicker said...

from the same piece as above:

"But for the well-being of this nation and the protection of its citizen’s that media needs to be held just as accountable because if they didn’t take the government at its word despite a continual track record of lies and deception America would be a much safer place today and the citizens of this nation and humanity as a whole would have a much brighter, safer and secure future."

Sandy Hook and the Boston bombing are two more incidents after which the mass media of this country confirmed it is incapable of doing its job. Should be ignored and starved to death. Fini.

Anonymous said...

SATS

rp:

http://powerofnarrative.blogspot.be/

rockpicker said...

This sounds just like what I always thought happened.

http://beforeitsnews.com/obama/2013/05/benghazi-unravelled-has-this-mysterious-commentor-put-the-puzzle-together-2451016.html

rockpicker said...

SATS; Interesting viewpoint. But demoralizing. Presumably, if he's right, there is nothing to be done. Man simply can't govern himself in a sane and equitable fashion. Stop trying, enjoy your miserable lot.

Rot.

rockpicker said...

http://beforeitsnews.com/health/2013/05/the-vaccine-hoax-is-over-documents-from-uk-reveal-30-years-of-coverup-2487666.html

Another surprise!

rockpicker said...

SATS; Charlie seems to agree with Silber, to a point, but still thinks we can turn this ship around.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lAmMMdfLac&feature=player_embedded


wv= among solvesia

seekerr said...

I have three separate communications that I want to post, but they are not pursuant to the current interaction. What is the protocols for this? Do I write non-sequitur prior to my posts? What is your etiquette concerning this? Seeker


seekerr said...

Just got back from working with the horses. Saw no reply,so will go for it and hope for the best.
1)Thank you for the referral to Charles Smith. I will access and read. In my prior remarks, I meant to use that emotion in tandem with visualization and proactive effort. In my opinion, nothing worth having happens without a modicum of blood,sweat or tears.
2)I am still unsure about the workings of Trout Clan. Is there a leader(s)? Who selects the subjects and if you have something to offer from a previous site, do you put it there or on the present site?
Thank you,Murphy,Freeacre and Anonymous for putting a little bit about yourselves out there. By having a bit of provenance, it helps me with the different perspectives on subjects. I realize that I am walking into a virtual community as a stranger and do not want to inadvertently cross territory lines and cause offense.
3) To Murphy and Freeacre:
Over 25 years ago, I lost everything in a matter of minutes due to a wall fire in a trailer up in the Big Hole Valley,except for my 18 month old son; my heirloom,wooden cradle and myself. I know somewhat of the emotional and physical sense of displacement and loss. I hope that ease and flow is present in your situation. Regards,Seeker

freeacre said...

Thank you for sharing your fire story, Seeker. We are seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. Hired a guy to get the metal and debris removed, and he is going a good job. Murph has retrieved most of the coins, though it will take months to get all the gunk fused to them. Things are looking up! The fire was terrifying, I have to admit. I don't experience abject fear very often. Kinda new to me. Things will be nice again.
Don't worry about changing subjects. Whatever strikes your fancy that you feel like sharing with the rest of us is fine. Comments from the previous post may be put wherever you want. But, they will be much better read on the current post.
Murph and I are the principle posters because it is our blogsite. And, we just write one when something comes up that we can refresh the conversation with (or try to). When we get close to a hundred comments, we start to feel like we better get a new post up. So, in that sense, we are sorta leaders. But, sometimes we can't think of anything new or we are real busy. Kindly, Belgium (AKA: Spirit Across the Sea; SATS) has helped us out by posting excellent, well-researched posts as well. Rockpicker and Palooka's Revenge (AKA: "p")have both contributed mightily. The posts, though, really are not meant to direct the conversation, merely to stimulate it. The strength of our site really is the contributors to the conversation. Charles H. Smith, by the way, sometimes comments on our site, as well as Nina's at deepintoartlifewest.blogspot.com
Don't worry, we don't have to agree on everything, and we don't. We just bring stuff up and make up our own minds. Sometimes we say stuff and just hearing it lends itself to changing our minds. That's one of the things I like about the process.
The only subject I can think of that might lead to a problem is if one was a heavy-duty jesus freak and believed that most of us here (a collection of meta-physicians, pagans, Goddess Worshipers, agnostics, and fellow travelers) were going to hell because we didn't accept Jesus as the one and only Lord and Savior. Just speculating because it has never come up before.

Rockpicker - Good links. The lamestream media is just shameful, as we all know. But, I am pretty amazed that these "scandals" are getting so much play - even on Yahoo News and places like that. Next, maybe they'll take a look at how they've reported Sandy Hook.
What kills me is the outrage the politicians have that they were under surveillance, when they've put it in place for all the rest of us.
BTW, keep an eye on the Sun. Just may take out the grid anytime now, or trigger earthquakes:

http://www.youtube.com/user/Suspicious0bservers

Maybe time to bring in the tomato plants.

Anonymous said...


smith's right time is intrinsically connected to the dynamic of process. process having to do with unfoldment or outcome. some call this fate. others, god's plan or will, some say we create our own reality while still others attribute to lady luck... be that viewed as good or bad. etc. personally i think the concepts of right time and process are fer real energetic dynamics woven into the very mortar of creation. and since there's really no dif between the two, their original cause is by both divine providence & by nature doing what nature does... create. one is the other and the other is the one. and they're fractal. iow, both macro and micro. macro - we got one. micro - you got one, i got one. the macro is the collective of differentiated micros. micros are mirrors of the macro.

i think we each have a process and that process has a homing device in it. AND, i highly suspect that process, on both the personal and... well, can i say universe?... layers of the cake is tuned by birthright to seek life. sustainable life. iow, each of us has our own personal process embedded in the mortar of what we are. if we can allow that process to unfold it will lead us home.

included in that and just as 'in play' is the concept of right place. which is really what this time we're in is all about. a time of untanglin. i know this sounds crazy but thats what we're seeing happenin 'out there'. iow, it looks like its gettin worse. a lot worse. and it is. but its actually gettin better. thinking of it like pandora's box being opened is applicable. only with one little twist. all the evils are in the jar only this time, we're in there with em.

entangled with em. not my word but the one i hijacked to identify why chit is so damned fucked up and we do the horrible things we do to each other and write if off as the human condition. cuz there's a buncha chit here on this planet that flat don't belong here in the context of right place. and we're energetically entangled with it. with stuff. entities, spirits, energies here on this planet inhabitating the vessels of true earth spirits. that'd be those who's right place... who's home... is of this planet.

iow, most of us are carryin a buncha stuff in our bodies, minds and magnetic centers that ain't us. now, how the hell could somethin like that even happen?

i guess i could take a stab at it but it'd be purely subjective. kinda like fortune cookies. i opened one the other day and this is what it said: it is now right time for the form of right
place... p

Anonymous said...

seeker... welcome to the campfire. i hope you find a comfort here as i have. i'm quite taken with some of the things you've said so far and look forward to more. i could pick a lot of words to describe what this campfire means to me but if i had to pick one to describe how i feel about it, it would be safety. and there aren't many places, especially on the web that fit that description.

we'll get to know each other as we move along. meantime, here's a link to my blog. don't pub much anymore but what's there gives some info as to what and where i come from, what matters to me, and what i think plagues us so as a peoples seeking to know answers to hard questions but questions that absoultely deserve answers... p

theunseenroleofdenial.blogspot.com

Anonymous said...

on sats recent link to rp... i didn't read it all but enuf to see a blame finger pointing at the bad guys. from blame's pov, who's finger is often frozen in only one direction, that'd be a right direction and with good analysis too. cuz, its not wrong. BUT, in this case as in all such cases the names and the issues (iow, the forms it manifests in) are immaterial to the underlying energetic motivations. cuz, much as we'd like to believe we're all just victims to evil in one form or another, thats not all the story. iow, the finger goes both ways.

let me put it this way... ole triky dick is regarded as the father of the war on drugs. do you think it was because he was evil personified or maybe even just a low-level power monger? or, could political equity have had something to do with it? iow, did ole dicky recognize opportunity when he saw it? if so, just who's mail was he readin when he was so enlightened?

or another way... all other factors being equal which isn't nearly as far fetched as it may sound, who is more likely to get elected? the one on the stump preachin and promisin law n' order (tanslation: protection) or the one who's not sayin a damn thing about it? ...p

rockpicker said...

This may be old information, but it's still cool to keep in mind...


http://www.collective-evolution.com/2011/09/02/scientist-prove-dna-can-be-reprogrammed-by-words-and-frequencies/

Seeker; I live very near where the Big Hole river joins the Beaverhead and Ruby. Used to work with horses as a kid, but that was another "right time."

DIVI aymoked

murph said...

Latest clean up news for those interested,

Yesterday it rained quite hard and I didn't want to work in the rain and wet ashes are absolutely no fun to work in either. I don't know which is worse. When the ash is dry, it permeates everything, clothing, skin pores, hair etc. When it's wet, it is flat out nasty to work in. So didn't get but a couple hours of cleanup done before it rained and we decided to go to a movie. Today, I'm taking the day off and doing something fun, after I take care of the animals of course.

I am going through the ashes in the hopes of finding enough scrap that can be sold to off-set the low insurance payout. Also, I come across hand tools that didn't get hot enough to make them unusable with some effort to clean them up. Over the years I had accumulated backups to backups to backups. The idea was to always have what I needed to do a job and wouldn't have to buy more. Now I am in the position of just doing well to have one of what I need and trying to keep track of where it is. No longer have a building to organize a place for everything to make keeping track of stuff easier. Sure hope that is remedied soon.

We had mentioned before that we aren't going to do a garden and greenhouse food production this year. Just too much coming at us and it really worries me. What I read indicates that could be a big deal this year. Just no time to be able to focus on it. It will probably be mid or end of summer before things are organized again. So, we will probably have to make trips over the mountains this summer and purchase bulk foods to put up for the winter.

Hey P,

Yup, plenty of finger pointing going on. I maintain that we all are at fault for our situation. We voted for the folks with the best rap and the most promises and the most engaging smile. Those folks that promised the most largess for the most people always win. No concept of the consequences for doing that. And, those promises made? Hah! We voted for our prisons and now we don't like it. Of course some folks made out like bandits in the deal. The price we will pay, I figure, will be extreme. So many of the folks in our population are now entirely dependent on the federal money coming to them that they will vote for anyone that will promise to keep it up.

I simply can't help but wonder, was this planned? Is this all a part of the NWO? Many indicators that it was planned. I find that to be a bitter sip from the cup.

rockpicker said...

from Spaceweather:

http://www.spaceweather.com/

They're calling for a 50% chance of X-class flares for the next 24-48 hours, just as sunspot 1748 moves into an earth-directional position



Solar wind
speed: 393.7 km/sec
density: 10.1 protons/cm3
explanation | more data
Updated: Today at 1517 UT
X-ray Solar Flares
6-hr max: M2 0901 UT May17
24-hr: M3 0858 UT May17
explanation | more data
Updated: Today at: 1500 UT
Daily Sun: 17 May 13
Sunspot AR1748 has a delta-class magnetic field that harbors energy for X-class solar flares. Credit: SDO/HMI
Sunspot number: 212
What is the sunspot number?
Updated 17 May 2013

Spotless Days
Current Stretch: 0 days
2013 total: 0 days (0%)
2012 total: 0 days (0%)
2011 total: 2 days (<1%)
2010 total: 51 days (14%)
2009 total: 260 days (71%)
Since 2004: 821 days
Typical Solar Min: 486 days
Update 17 May 2013

The Radio Sun
10.7 cm flux: 145 sfu
explanation | more data
Updated 17 May 2013
Current Auroral Oval:
Switch to: Europe, USA, New Zealand, Antarctica
Credit: NOAA/POES
Planetary K-index
Now: Kp= 2 quiet
24-hr max: Kp= 3 quiet
explanation | more data
Interplanetary Mag. Field
Btotal: 7.3 nT
Bz: 3.8 nT south
explanation | more data
Updated: Today at 1517 UT
Coronal Holes: 17 May 13
There are no large coronal holes on the Earthside of the sun. Credit: SDO/AIA.
SPACE WEATHER
NOAA Forecasts
Updated at: 2013 May 16 2200 UTC
FLARE

0-24 hr

24-48 hr
CLASS M

75 %

75 %
CLASS X

50 %

50 %

rockpicker said...

Scarecrow's News Rant

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFkOYBW5ujc&feature=player_embedded

rockpicker said...

Recently, Graham Hancock gave a TED talk entitled "The War on Consciousness," in which he said that if people don't have sovereignty over their own consciousness, then they don't have sovereignty of any kind. I quite agree with him, and this link identifies another egregious usurpation of individual freedom by a government bent on total control.

http://beforeitsnews.com/self-sufficiency/2013/05/farmer-faces-jail-for-feeding-community-2457630.html

BTW, May 25, there will be a world-wide anti-Monsanto event, including rallies, speeches calling for GMO labeling and marches to seats of local governments. Search to find activities near you, and participate if you can. This is how we take back our power.

Zoner said...

Man, I wish I were in closer proximity to lend some physical support to you beautiful folks. Will keep you in my thoughts and check back in hopes of finding further forward progress. So sorry for this unfortunate happening, and grateful that you were physically unharmed.

Z

Anonymous said...

we will probably have to make trips over the mountains this summer and purchase bulk foods to put up for the winter.

note for the suggestion box... make up a wish list and pub it here... p

Anonymous said...

hi guys been gone awhile but have checked in now and then and the latest about our chief and chieftain burn down and the absolutely horror that if you ain;t been there,,, well thats that.
this is akin to death,the absolute loss and no reprieve period,its gone.
now all that aside because its been awhile and several have offered to what ever we could do to elevate the this burden it remains that our offer has been refused because of perhaps that to accept the offer it might put a burden of unimagined proportions on those that have volunteered to give a hand.
THAT SUCKS, don't know bout the rest of you but i don't have that many friends that would jump at the chance to help and said so. no reply as to the offer, me and rockpicker offered on the minutes notice but don't know bout my friend and confidant but i figured it was just to far to travel and we were not equipped to really do much other then to bring beers and such and as ole mother fuckers would would probably just git in the way of what was already happening , right picker?
however that being said i stand ready with whatever i have to give and if you need us once again i am ready and so is picker i imagine;..///

welcome seekerr, you have come to the sacred site of the trout clan and everything said here is a gift to those that attend this site and know that you are sacred also, we live as if love was an accepted reality among us and not enforced.

personally i have always been to say in a rough situation is
whats a mother fucker to do?

love and peace to all our relations.
aho
montana freeman

Anonymous said...

will join in later with you all about the forwards but my system sever has just been upgraded to fiber optic and the snail that has been the delivery of nonsense is ready and willing to jump right in and make an ass of himself as appropriately needed, not me of course, its my main guide to sanity, a little thing that has ducks in now and then is a departed spirit guide called langosta and was a cricket that lived outside my bedroom window. she, yes she, returns now and then as some sort of mentores and suggests certain things that might be construed as a dim light source among the feeble minded and, she feels welcome here as a guest and loves to play.
because she says that the light that is here bright as it is is healing some of the dear hearts that attend this sacred healing
place .
there is love and there is love '

p&p we stand with you and your loss because we all know tragic loss..and what it feels like.
my son is dead from accident , can anything replace that ...?
fuck no.!!

peace and love

aho

mf

seekerr said...

I am going to a benefit at the Union Club tomorrow to help out a man who has helped many. His house burned down and he escaped with only the clothes on his back. He is an iconic figure in our community and deserves help. The music will be good and the company interesting. I feel the circles of synchronicity rolling.
Thank you for your elucidation and welcome. They calmed my wariness. I liked reading the words, pagan and goddess. Tells me I'm heading in the right direction.
I do not believe in random or coincidence. I so believe in free will, but I don't believe that there are unlimited choices at our disposal. I try to feel the intuition or nuance and go in that direction. The pivotal moments that I haven't,have cost me irreparably.
Genetically Modified Organics are usually signified by an eight or an E in the # of the package or can. I can't remember which. Yikes! The effects of cortisol running thru the brain.
Good fishing in the Big Hole and Dillon area: Grasshopper and Dead Man's creeks. At least there used to be.
I have some subjects in the works, but have to get verifications before I set them in front of the Clan. I can see that the bar is set high...the way I like it.
To Montana Freeman;
I lost my oldest; my son; my old soul, five years ago, this running month. The loss is untenable and does not get better with time. There is an abyss in my soul. My heart goes out to you.
The river is my church. The stones at its banks, my pew. The breeze intertwining itself amongst the leaves are my aspirations and possibilities.
I am done in by opening the Pandora 's box of my son's death.
I have written a little bit in my bio and have a picture that I want to put in it but am still figuring out just how to do it. My youngest girl keeps passing by occasionally and I tell her that she is seeing an actual lesson in perseverance leading to mastery of a skill,or, try and try again until you succeed.
The moon is in first quarter, making one yearn. I have to go back to Rockpicker's relayed data about the sun to try and figure out what it is doing. Wishing the Clan strength and adaptability in these Times. Seeker

rockpicker said...

Seeker; Union Club is one of our favorite hang-outs when we get to town. Used to love the Moonlighters, and later, Zeppo. Brother-in-law was the drummer.

About your losses, to you and Freeman and Murph and Freeacre, all I can say is, keep your hand on that plow, hold on. And yes, when it's time to come together and throw something up, let us know and we'll be there to pitch in.

freeacre said...

Hearing of the loss of your sons puts our damage in perspective. It's so good to have you back, Montana, and be reminded of your dear boy, and Langusta. Sure would love to hear any new missives from her. That you and Seeker both suffer such terrible loss - well, what can I say, but I grieve with you.
And. yes, we'll be happy to see you when we get to the re-building part. But, it's gonna take awhile. We are OK, really.
Just really pisses me off that this happened just as we are being threatened with possible asteroid debris, a possible kill shot CME from the Sun that would take out the electrical grid, and some big earthquake in the NW!!
And yet, I still felt compelled to make desserts for the Grange fund-raiser tomorrow and also a dessert for the dessert auction for the Citizens Action Group ... all while wondering if all hell won't break loose instead. You might check out celestialconvergence.

Duck and Cover.

Anonymous said...

Dizzy Observations.

A couple of years ago we had a pair of Malards nesting in some brambles right outside the kitchen window, we watched them building the nest, courting, we could even hear their early morning nuptuals! We watched from only 2ft away through the glass, as mother duck laid 5 eggs! Mr. Duck would bring Mrs. Duck some weeds to munch while she sat patiently. One day we hadn't seen Mr. Duck all day, his mate was frantic by the evening, but still sat patiently. Next morning Mr. Duck is at the bottom of the bramble bush, his wing is stuck out at a strange angle, and it's clear he's injured his wing. There was nothing we could do but watch, within a day or two the Red Kites, who's territory we live in, had spotted a potential meal in Mr. Duck, his days were numbered and there was soon no sign of him. Mrs. Duck sat patiently. Then the Magpies found her, one would get her off the nest while the others pecked at an egg, they would poke a hole in an egg, then pick it up through the hole with their beaks, and fly off to eat it in peace...4 eggs, 3 eggs, next day only 2 eggs, then only 1 egg left, Mrs. Duck had fought the great fight, but she abandoned it knowing she couldn't stave off the inevitable attack.
My wife steps in, rushed round and picks up the last egg, slips it under one of our broody hens, couple of weeks later our chickens hatch 14 little fluffy chicks, and one ugly duckling!

We called here Dizzy, she would always seem to be spinning round in circles. The adoption went well, broody hen is a Cochin, kept any potential bullies away and let Dizzy back under her wing to warm up. After a few months Dizzy grew up and it was time to set her free, but she refused to go, she would hang around the chicken pen at night, after a few nights of this I thought she was in too much danger out all night with no skills, so I let her back in, I was privileged to watch the chickens and Dizzy greet each other again, much clucking and quacking, the spirits of the whole coop seemed lifted.
But that night, Dizzy refused to go in the coop, she wouldn't move from the gate, so I opened the gate and she flew out towards the river with a quack of thanks. She didn't go far, I would see her often on the river nearby, she joined some other ducks, the Indian runners who are duty slug control in our field, and she seemed happy to stick around with them. She still pops back to see her old friends in the chicken coop, I see her every couple of weeks waddling around outside the coop, she has the sense to fly off when the dogs are out.

So, this morning I'm out early, foraging to see if there's any mushrooms up after the wet weather, I quickly found a huge "chicken of the woods" and decided to head back with it, pick some "jack by the hedge" to fry in butter with the mushroom for breakfast.
As I come round the corner back into the garden, I hear all the chickens clucking away all excited, making a right old hullabaloo! As soon as I could see what all the excitement was about, my heart melted. Dizzy was outside the coop with 10 little fluffy ducklings :) Life goes on, with a little help from your friends :) Gd.

Anonymous said...

SATS

Fantastic story Gd.

Seeker: This is just to compliment what Freeacre has already told you about the Campfire. Feel free to talk about whatever you like. It is not necessary that the comments follow logically on from one to another or even be on the subject of the post although it is nice to have a bit of recognition for the work you have put into making a post, for a few comments at least before everyone goes back to the ongoing. Sometimes conversations go on in parallel with one group talking for example, about the economic situation and another group going on about alternative energy sources. The message is, jump right in with whatever is on your mind and it will be okay. If you feel the need to make a bigger statement you can always submit a guest post to Murph and Freeacre at their e mail address. Sometimes, like right now, I expect they would welcome a hundred comment respite without having to think of a new topic to talk about. Most of the people who comment here are based somewhere in the USA. The main exceptions are me in Belgium and Gd in England. If you direct something at either of us then be aware of the time difference. Gd is on GMT, I am on GMT +1 and I guess you are on GMT -7 so although it is possible we can be online at the same time the chances are we won't and it may take a day to get back to you. The non-USA contributor that miss dropping by is Ely from Colombia, anybody know what happened to him?

Family tragedy can be a terrible thing to live with and although the loss of personal stuff is tragic it is not as great a blow to bear as the loss of someone close to you. Murph and Freeacre will never replace some of the things things which have gone in the fire but there will be friends around to help build some semblance of what there was before. Some things may even turn out better, you never know what life has in store. Fyi, Chris and myself are both on our second circuit of the marriage go round. I have two biologicals in England that have issues with their dad and bridges keep falling in the water. However I have earned respect and my place with Chris's kids from her first time around and we have very close family ties so you never know quite how it goes. It is a funny ol' game, this life.

Murph and Freeacre, have you solved your water pump problem yet? I have picked things up before at second hand industrial plant suppliers, over here of course. The problem is getting something that will do the head required in single phase and is not made out of chocolate, at a reasonable price. I am assuming that you don't have three phase. Single phase bilge pumps are reasonably priced but it depends on the head you are pulling. Other than that , it is a hand pump. If it went that way, I would probably get a scrap electrical cylinder lawn mower, gear it down, put a cam on the end of the shaft and attach the other end of the con rod onto the top of the water pump handle. Mind you cast can be a bugger to bore, best grind it with a diamond tip tool. There I go, assuming you have a full tool kit. What about multiple bilge pumps each pulling about 3 – 4 metres? I tend to do this brainstorming thing of churning out daft ideas one after the other because amongst them there might be something that works :-)

For now.

Anonymous said...

murph, fa... check the spam please. unless i'm delusional i posted 2 comments this morn... p

z... good to hear from u again.

mf... u 2. fer sur. nobody has a way with the word quite like you bro. been missin ya...

gd... i'm spinnin... and it feels gooood....

oh ye of the norwegian wood cabin... free to choose from limited choices. absolutely!

and... The river is my church. The stones at its banks, my pew. wanna go paddlin? http://theunseenroleofdenial.blogspot.com/2007/05/what-makes-love-stay.html

comrade simba said...

I am sorry about the loss, and all I can hope is some sort of simpler and less complex way manifests and brings so much peace that you'll wish the place burned down years ago. Yeah, it's a stretch, but that's the best lemonade I can make with a bunch of molded dumpster lemons. Not much I can do other than turn my buddha statue in your direction and ask the gods to give you a break. Take care, you still have each other and a lot of life left.

the comrade

seeker said...

From Seeker:I have a personal observation to make about climate change. Yes, weather is cyclical.So is everything else on this plane that we inhabit. Circles within circles, overlapping and interconnecting. A single seminal happening can start a juggernaut rolling. I believe that through our disrespect and short sightedness(referring back to Murph and his observations about humanity), we have skewed the balance and our off the wall weather patterns are the result. The cycles have been warped and the juggernaut is rolling.
Is permaculture some sort of exterior land feng shui?
It sounds like it from what has been written here.

I love the volcanic ash recipe for blue-green glasslike bricks. What a piece of natural magic! Is it similar to how obsidian is formed?

To freeacre:
Your grace, strength and empathy shine through in your posts.
Thank you for your tact and kindness. Thank you for giving names to some of the other members of the Clan. Before you set me straight,I was thinking that Anonymous had an extremely intricate,ever-changing personality. I laughed...truly laughed for the first time in a long time. I am empath. The "Anonymous",that I thought of as one person,was throwing me for a loop with all the twists and turns in "his" personality. I thought that the prolonged and new grief and changes that I was going through had taken my mojo away. Anyway; thank you.
The benefit that I talked about is tomorrow,not today. It will be nice to interact with people in a musical,altruistic atmosphere.

Dublinmick said...

Murph
I am truly sorry to hear all of this. I don't know what to say and can't even imagine going through it. Hope the insurance people get off their duff for you and do something.

seeker said...

I am a grass widow until mid-August. Last July, the man that I am involved with made bad choices and was taken away. He could have been back in six months, but chose thirteen months instead. That decision rides on me.
My mother, my youngest daughter and myself lived together in a three generation,symbiotic household.
I maintained the household and all that entails. She was legally blind and had bad scoliosis,but was all there,mentally. In return, she gave us a stable, loving environment to raise my daughter. She had her first stroke on Halloween of last year. She was diagnosed with onset of dementia and required 24/7 care. Through synchronicity, I was able to have a person who had known my son and had been treated kindly by him, agreed to watch her while I was at work, for a paltry sum. It was a thank you to my son for paying it forward,in the past. We had no insurance or savings and the alternative would have been a Medicaid bed in a nursing home. A nightmare that I would not let happen. My 10 year old daughter and I protected and took care of her the rest of the time. She had a second stroke November 28,2012. This time they required her to go to an intensive rehab for 20 days which with no supplemental insurance was a farce. I had done an end run around the system after the first stroke and gotten physical,financial and medical power of attorney. Elder care in this country for the poor without a hard fighting advocate is abysmal at best. After seeing the "care" that she was not being given, I became her watchdog. I came every morning from 5 am until 6:30: go to work until 3:30 and be back with my girl from 5 pm until 10. She kept asking to go home. On day 20,I signed her out and got her back home. The original system that I cobbled together resumed. It was grueling but worth it for her sake.
It was a labor of love and respect that my daughter and I will never regret. My mother was able to die in her own territory with my daughter and myself at her side. We protected her from all comers and were able to give back the love and protection that she had selflessly,always given
The house is lost to reverse mortgage and all has to be dispersed and ended by late July.
But, through this dark,despairing passage has come a place of sanctuary and new beginning for my daughter and myself.

seeker said...

I am a river woman and am extremely proficient and at ease in this element that I love and respect.
I love spending time in and around the water with any like minded individuals.
I read article about solar storm on denial blog.Got much better understanding about potential consequences.
Also read.blog on the conversations and teachings of Elk,God, Whale, Wolf and others. Touched deep chords and felt parallels.
Songs to listen to: Over you, by Miranda Lambert...Safe and Sound, by Taylor Swift...Good-bye in her eyes, by Zac Brown Band...Wild Horses, by
Susan Boyle
I need a star book . I want to find the Pliedes. I am rereading Pigs in Heaven and Animal Dreams, by Barbara Kingsolver. I identify with her female protagonists.
I have told the man that he is welcome at my hearth when he gets out. I don't know if he will adapt to the lifestyle,but this place, this wonderful place is our home. Our place to plant and take a stand. My daughter and I are staying. My two older daughters are on opposite coasts at present. I am the lynch pin that they will come to should times get hard.Good night Trout Clan.

seeker said...

To gd:wanted to thank you for the beautiful visuals running through my mind. I read the story to my girl and she loved it. Gave her back her hijacked Kindle HD and together we looked up red kites,cochins,Indian runners,"chicken in the woods",and "Jack in the hedge" It was good. Thank you for the message within the story. It brings ease to our hearts. Seeker

freeacre said...

Wow. Such good interactions and input from everybody! Thanks for the good vibes from Comrade Simba and Dublinmick. Thanks for your concern. The murphinator and I are doing well. The rain has given us a break to have some fun. Went to see "Star Trek" (really good!) and we even went to a dinner/dance fundraiser last night and had a good time.
Your story of the struggle to care for your loved ones, Seeker, are classic. Like "Le Miserable" or "A Tale of Two Cities" the working class is continually challenged to do the impossible to provide both the substance and the essence of dignity and love in protracted horrid circumstances. Our heroes are mostly unsung. Our tears, mostly unseen. Nonetheless, they form the fabric of our civilization, if you can call it that.
It's a surprise to me to know that you are female, Seeker! Like me, you chose a name that is not gender specific. I find it fun to write from that ambiguous stance sometimes. Respect to you and to all of us, as I know that we have all faced horrific challenges as we attempt to care for our families, loved ones, and uphold our responsibilities to our Great Mother and our relations.
On top of it all, we have major doom predictions from clif high for an imminent global coastal event, the Sun is threatening X class CME's, several huge asteroids and accompanying debris fields are heading our way, as well as predictions of financial collapse due to computer hacking and "death of the dollar." Stay tuned.

http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2013/05/breaking-operation-apocalypse-sun-19th-may-2013-2652726.html

I'm glad we got another hand pump for the well. My comfort comes from choosing to believe that we were born for this.
wv: xistnet man

seeker said...

To Palooka's Revenge:
I finally got to the water and immersed myself in myriad perceptions,reflections and adventures that exhilarate. Thank you.
My Nick. I always called him my river boy,even after he did that electrical metamorphosis into a man. We were solo artists and devotees of the water.Have never had the pleasure of the dance you have experienced,but my son and I know how the otters and the seals feel.
With desperation for survival I turned from the creeping tsunami that was my son"s death. On the anniversary of his descent into coma, I entered this clan. I am trying to find my way for my girls. I try to keep the abyss at my back. I am trying to find my way back to the water and music. I have been existing on survival ethics of the soul. I watched The Yearling again
and I can see myself in the mother and what she became from grief if I
Don't find my way. My coaches from the past always told me that I had grit. I could hit the wall and push past it. I am at an impasse. I free associate when I write and ,at times don't like where the current takes me,but I am an otter and I feel that undertow off to my right.Seeker

murph said...

anonymous from the 18th

I checked the spam folder for comments and none in there.

rockpicker said...

The Environmental Protection Agency did WHAT?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liEXUL-O0Hc&list=FLHE92x768p8h-fMrqhsnE1Q

Anonymous said...

seeker... ya know what a benchmark is? in the trades, its the starting point. the reference point from which everything else begins. yer the benchmark momma... p

rockpicker said...

from Steve Quayle's alerts page:

"FOREIGN TROOPS ARE LANDING BY THE PLANE LOADS ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY--SO MANY THAT IT CAN ONLY MEAN ONE THING-SURRENDER TO THE UN

High Alert!
I'm getting cell phone calls that there are huge transport jets landing in
West Virginia, Jacksonville, Fl, and Camp Atterbury, and possibly others.
Plz post if you are seeing similar heavy air traffic in your areas. It
appears we have a UN invasion developing.''Just had a phone call from a man
in Jacksonville Florida who lives right on the flight path of the Naval Air
station there who advised that starting early yesterday morning there has
been a constant flow of huge unmarked military transport planes landing
non-stop since. He thinks they're C130's and C17's also. He said he's never
in all the years there seen more than a dozen per day. These jets are
silver and plain, no tail markings. Do we have anyone here who can add to
this?''
''I had several high level militia members call me with Intel confirmed on
UN soldiers being flown into Indiana on 130s and c17s bein issued US army
name tapes and ranks and being put under order of DHS on top of that
multiple armed swat raids being led by IRS in south multiple people taken
Texas Florida Mississippi an Georgia.''
When soldiers asked about incoming flights they are told you did not see
what you thought you saw.

CC from Anonymous

May 20, 2013"

rockpicker said...

from Beforeitsnews:

http://beforeitsnews.com/politics/2013/05/pics-armored-tank-spotted-in-nh-the-police-state-continues-to-unfold-2519768.html

seeker said...

I will preface this response, by reiterating that I am totally new to the internet.I am am a 53 year old woman that purposely kept out of this world for as long as possible. I read the Steve Quayle article and then speed-read through 6 or 7 others and was not impressed. He seemed to be trying to create mass paranoia and hysteria with a heavy conservative
religious message of coming Armageddon interspersed throughout.
The presentation of his blog reminded me of yellow journalism at its "finest". I was reminded of Orson Welles on the radio with the alien invasion.
Are there any somewhat honest objective information sites out there? Please, don't take offense at this response. It is just my opinion. I am open to any elucidation that you can give me.

seeker said...

Also, why is there a trashcan at the end of each of my responses? What am I doing to make this happen?

seeker said...

To P:
Read your bio on denial blog and am reading your art. It is very visual, emotive writing. It is good. What an interesting being you are. Your type of humanity and interaction give me heart. Seeker

murph said...

Seeker,

I think the trash can is so you can delete a comment later.

Steve Quail is a bit out there for sure. There are several similar to him as far as sensationalism goes. I have no real idea concerning many of the stories he tells whether they have a bit of veracity. However, it is also true of what is considered a more logical and even approach. Almost all of their stories can't be verified either. We-all most probably don't travel in that level of authority, we have to take some one else statement about what is happening and going on.

Yellow journalism, while not too much a taste for it, does tend to grab attention. Hell, we may even find out that some of their stories are true. lol.

Anonymous said...

Seeker, glad you liked the Dizzy story :)

The thing about life and the internet these days is, everything is a business model, prophets of doom have so many angles it takes a while to suss out who's who, and even then you might be being taken for a ride by political shills, misinformation artists establishing limited hangouts, and gatekeepers preventing you seeing the real truth.

Most of us around the campfire are old hands reading the doom, but I dare say we've all been taken in at some point at least once, and no doubt will be again. Question everything, and take the doom with a pinch of salt, especially when it's pushing someone's meme, history is written by the victors, a historical perspective is a good grounding, but then, who's history is it :) Gamedog (Gd)



Anonymous said...

SATS

Seeker, what Gd says is true. Fortunately we don't get many of those types hanging about here. I guess we are not controversial enough for them. In all the years I have been hanging here, I have only ever got upset with two people (upset is a good understated word :)). There was one who ripped into me because the guest post I wrote was not about fly fishing and the other I quickly called out as being agency disinfo and unusually he went away. One technique they often use is to make a great issue of something so small you don't even recognise it as a problem, it might only be the grammar you have used to express yourself. They use a straw man technique of accusing you of saying something you haven't and then discrediting it. When you object they usually bring your sanity into question. All in all their object is to rubbish others and break up the conversation in order to make their own establishment points. As I say, this site is a pretty safe haven, maybe they aren't into permaculture.

rockpicker said...

Seeker; Look up globalresearch and Michele Chossudovsky, and his team. Their 'tone' may be more to your liking.

The link to Steve Quayle's site was to his alert's page, where he posts letters and communiques he receives from people from around the country. Generally, these are eye-witness accounts that will never see the light of day in the lamestream media, for one reason or another.

Charlie McGrath is a noted 'truthteller', from Bozeman. You can tune into his radio broadcast on the Jeff Rense radio network every day , from 6-8 pm. Usually talks about the economy.

http://beforeitsnews.com/survival/2013/05/its-not-a-conspiracy-theory-it-is-happening-right-now-2474088.html

seeker said...

Thank you for the information, it helped a lot.
Did the tornado, in your collective opinion, have any correlation with the sun activity? Was the axis of where the tornadoes tornadoes crossed 10 or so years apart Moore, OK ? If it wasn't ,what was it? I would be interested to know what the lay(sp?) lines are like in that neck of the woods.
You know me a little. I am always looking at imbalance and trying to figure out the cause so that I could try and figure out a working theory to explain some of these extremes that we(macro) are experiencing.

Anonymous said...

seeker... that something i might write is nectar to someone elses heart is one of the nicest compliments anyone has ever given me. thank you.

you raise an interesting theory with the ley line question. that of course has to do with this particular neck of the wood in interaction with the cosmic. and i would add, the collective of people. human culture is local. that means local cultures share commonalities that tend to influence energetics toward similarities. think of alignments of pov's as magnetism.

there is much i could say bout this. but for one who is interested in causality i'll put it this way... if we could (and we can) ask the ones who started this whole evolutionary thing called creation/life to give and then explain some understandings along these lines the operative words the story would revolve around would be shared forms of denial, guilt, and judgements. thats what i think they'd say anyway. cuz its what's got us by the short hairs.

and then they would say this... you/we have entered into a time where 'fail safes' have activated due to extreme imbalance. this is not some magic button some pie in the sky might push. it is a fail safe woven into the fabric of U/you/us. though it is more than fortunate for the lost ones/stuff, 'things' will be moving now in ways that will appear to you/us as if all hell has broken loose. cuz it has. and there is such a place. its just that it's not exactly the same as your notions and conditioning have told you. its where the lost ones have been. there's another word for it... the deepest bowels of the gap.

wv... ueUSEng prison i kid you not... p

rockpicker said...

P; Has Ruppert Sheldrake had any influence on your thinking? What you were just saying about lay lines sounds a little like what Sheldrake says about morphic fields.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFSsJHI5Zds

Anonymous said...

rp... not really. but, ironically, i'd mentioned him in one of those comments i asked the murphs to check on. i'd checked out that hancock vid you mentioned and found out about the big brew ha ha over it cuz tedx banned it. which is what the comment was about. banned it along with sheldrake's ted talk about science being delusional. which i agree on. but thats the first time i ever heard sheldrake. heard of but never heard. or read. ran otta time before the talk ran out. think i saw maybe 7 - 8 minutes where he outlines all the contradictions and shortsightedness (which is to put it lightly) of what he calls the top ten list of contemporary academic science dogma (ie... its all in yer head pilgrim). which i thought was obvious but brilliant at the same time.

didn't see much new from hancock except him copping to a 16 hr/day, 30 yr pot habit that he broke couple yrs ago when ayahuaska momma took him on a wake-up trip. that and him saying there's a protocol being used by shamen to treat cocaine and heroin addicts now. involves 12 sessions with the spirit molecule. 50% success rate! which is incredible!! best AA's ever claimed is 10%. and yup, there's definitely a war on consciousness. but to say a war on life itself would be more precise... p

wv... Newton dsagova.

newton? science? what's up with this wv synchronicity all of a sudden. thats 2 in a row..

seeker said...

I've been watching OK coverage and need to switch my mind in a different yet connected direction.
Tomorrow, I'm meeting my terrier after work to trim my horses hooves. They are American Indian Horses; smaller, but beautiful and tough. My mare, Rio D'Esperanza and her son, August Rhapsody are good with their feet. August' sister, Field of Birches is a bit of a cinnamon stick, but if it isn't raining too hard, all should go well.
I'll be looking for pasture around Clinton in July so that they will be close to us. If things do fall apart,I will be prepared for what will come. My animals,my skills,and now my territory are my aces in the hole.
I found out today,that the road I live off of, doesn't end but goes all the way through to Potamac, so there are two exits. I'm going to get a topographical map to familiarize myself. Seeker

seeker said...

The word is ferrier, not terrier. This device can be frustrating.
More good news. My nearest neighbor above me has lived up here for years,all year round with minimal infrastructure. The name of his place is Terrapin Station. A deadhead, Good karma, huh? I'll bring him a pie and have a sit down and get some some good info and potential shortcuts from someone who knows the ins and outs. I'm starting to feel freedom. I have missed it.
I still feel that it is very interesting that two mega-tornadoes crossed each other, even though they were 14 years apart: One on May 3,1999 and one May 20 2013. All of you that I have "met" so far are far more proficient than I in accessing diverse information quickly to look for patterns.Had I time, I would check the sun activity on those two dates. I would find out more about the ley lines and magnetic power points and more about the long-term history of that physical area.
I believe that physical places can hold energy from emotional patterns and happenings. I do have some envelope pushing beliefs,but they are how I view the world from my own personal experiences and I do not try to push them on people. I just put it out there for what it is worth. Have to get to bed. My lack of good rest is quickly reaching critical mass. The wind is restless outside and the dogs are wound up. Full moon coming on the weekend.May we all access the power wisely.Seeker

rockpicker said...

Seeker; Look up Dutchsinse. He's a young guy living in St. Louis, Mo. He's been watching violent weather for years, and a while back, noticed that these odd frequency "rings" were appearing on national weather maps, rather inexplicably, and then 24-48 hrs later, bam, a severe weather system would hit the same area where the ring manifested. He's documented the phenomenon for a couple of years, at least. Called the Joplin twister 24 hrs ahead of the hit. I witnessed that one. He's claiming H.A.A.R.P. and associated technologies are causing severe weather to occur in pre-determined locations. Look at his stuff. Those maps he uses are not his. They're Intellicast maps, or College of DuPage creations. He's merely pointing out phenomena appearing, that everyone can see, and making a connection to damaging storms that just happen to appear exactly in the same location hours or days later. Don't understand how it works, but a pattern has developed.

http://www.youtube.com/user/dutchsinse

rockpicker said...

http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2013/05/5202013-oklahoma-city-massive-tornado-damage-radar-pulse-haarp-ring-scalar-square-confirmation-by-sincedutch-2655750.html

seeker said...

How cool! Thank you Rockpicker I will look into it tomorrow. It takes me a bit of time to navigate in these new waters. A lot o f trial and error. Seeker

rockpicker said...

Has everyone heard, there will be world-wide protests held against Monsanto this weekend?

Bozeman and Kalispell have confirmed events scheduled. Don't know about Msla. Bozeman event was announced in the Bozone magazine; rally starts at 9:00am at the Co-Op, with speeches and such, then a march to the county courthouse, to demand government require labeling from the companies putting gmo's in our food.

http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/monsanto-declares-a-sneaky-social-media-war-against-protesters_05212013

rockpicker said...

This looks like a lot of fun, in a nutshell.

http://www.wakingtimes.com/2013/03/19/3-ted-talks-the-establishment-would-prefer-you-to-miss/

rockpicker said...

Ooh! Ooh!

http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2013/05/shock-obama-was-incapacitated-due-to-staggering-inapt-activities-between-the-hours-of-1800-and-2300-on-the-night-of-benghazi-redflagnews-com-2657206.html

freeacre said...

Heads up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcuY65XQqfU&feature=player_embedded

Incoming.

rockpicker said...

Freeacre; I love it!

" Miyushu Babii 1 day ago

Nasa can send a rover to Mars but they can't track an Asteroid (or maybe it's a mothership, hence the "hovering" on the 22nd, maybe Scotty lowered warp speed). "Orbit Uncertainty" they don't know the size or orbit of this Asteroid? All of a sudden Nasa looked in their sideview mirror and "Objects in mirror are closer than they appear" Holy Sh*t!!! Houston we have a problem..."

rockpicker said...

As with Clinton and Bush, thugs loyal to Obama, who know too much, tend to have a lot of fatal accidents.

http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2013/05/2-fbi-agents-involved-in-dzhokhar-tsarnaevs-arrest-fall-out-of-helicopter-and-die-2658378.html

Anonymous said...

welcome seekerr, you sound like you might be pretty well equipted with enough learn'un to deal with the remains of that which we grew up with , total bullshit ,right, we are all still learning no matter if some of us are older then dirt.
the spark of awarness which somehow just refuses to be blown out regardless of the circumstances ,even in old age we still have a wick that only needs a small flame to bring it back to life and i don't mean a sheep herder with longings in their nethers,
we are flesh and blood and have all the ingredients of a calm disposition all that remains of

'' our''so called rights which is pure bullshit from the beginning ,we never ever had any rights , that is such a fucked up story , a make believe that we suck up like it was high school dance and the dream of getting laid after the night prom was over...... pure bullshit ,,,unless you got laid,, well thats a different form of bullshit.... remember ?
other then that even though we are still are here and wonder what we can do to make it all go away... it ain't ,thats that, randy says we are doomed and i believe him. p says we can be saved and i believe him to, montana says what the fuck is really going on? is we stupid? and if so why? what are we missing that ain't being laid out there in the fucking open so us ignorance fucks can't see? how come dumb fucks don't get a chance to see? to much church?,,to much mother's tit? to much fathers tit? not enough tit period ?
all good questions, i have a pet sheep and she thinks i am a pervert , my shrink will explain it to me tomorrow after my second dose of prosaic , i trust her with my life... any suggestions?
aho

mfandbug//////

peace and understanding

Anonymous said...

mf.... i could NOT stop laughin! yer a classic, muthafucker!! and you know damn well thats a compliment of the highest order. damn, i miss yer sorry ass. don't be sucha stranger. please.... pretty please... pretty please with a 420 on top... p

wv... which estilmu

it appears the spell is broken. now if it had said witch instead of which??? oh, but it didn't. i digress. and fade into me own shadow...

Anonymous said...

momma's movin!! but then, y'all already know that. right? so you don't need to look at this... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5wPd-H-hpI

throw that in with the one FA put up the other day. in in in closer closer closer toward .008 AU. or was it .0008? i can't remember.

and then it turns around. well, not exactly. it started to go further away. don't know bout u guys but away away feels better than closer closer.

but that was a projection. so it didn't hit us. i guess. what did you feeeeeeel though? i felt.... shhh, don't tell no body... i felt.... terrrrror!

momma knows EXACTLY what's she's doin...p

wv... allegation rostari
yup, broken.

... maybe not. had to start over... oxolied man.

feelin oxolided?

seeker said...

Montana Freeman,so nice to make your acquaintance. I'm so glad that your green eyed cricket is here also. I'm on the run so I will just throw this out into the mix.
You can only control your own actions. A mantra I firmly believe in,but...I also believe that the action you do take, no matter how small, can sometimes impact others in a tremendous way. And the kicker of it is, that you never know which action it is...Soooo, do you stop everything and hide quietly in your life, hoping that the steamroller of consequences will forget you're there? Or do you step out firmly into the light; square your shoulders and step forward and try again to find that deeper meaning and sense of right that has been eluding you for so long. And in ending I never go t to go to the prom. Seeker

Anonymous said...

rp, other half came in when I had your link on screen, looked somewhat confused by the russian names in the headline, so I explained those FBI guys arrested the Boston chaps fell out of a helicopter... "they must think we're fucking stupid!... just popping to the shops"

False flag, loose ends, normalised.Gd.

rockpicker said...

from Steve Quayle's alerts:

"CALIFORNIA TWIN EQ'S 5.7 -INSIDERS IN THE SAN JOSE ARE MOVING THEIR FAMILY NOW

Something HUGE is going down....Just had Two 5.7 earthquakes just north of
Sacramento near Lassen Volcanic National Park. Don't normally post this
kind of thing just giving you a heads up..All I can say is someone was
given the word that California is about to get a big one. Moving their
family out right now. They are in San Jose. Not someone who would joke
around unless they knew something..I really don't want to freak anyone out
but this is legit info..I'm sorry, just knew when this guy said something
that he was worried. He was given the word to move VIPs then told to get
out of Cali. Like NOW! Key dignitaries from SanFran consulates have been
flown out. Suspected plate fractures off Oregon, Cali coast. A double
header. That's all I know..

May 24, 2013"

Charles Hugh Smith said...

Holy moly, I just checked in and found about the fire. As someone who still uses some old tools from my grandfather, I can sure understand the devastating loss of treasured tools. Money can't replace them.

You have made admirable progress despite your devastation--all your kindnesses to your community are being recognized. If you're short of rebuilding cash, please ask for donations and give us a target sum you need.

seeker said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
rockpicker said...

Seeker; What is "electronic Cajon"?

If she is near the 'grapevine,' the highway that comes down from Bakersfield to L.A. basin, over a steep pass, that's not a good place to be. The San Andreas fault comes up from the southeast and 'hooks' around the San Bernadino Mts. at this location. The mountains are a deep-rooted granitic prominence, and the Pacific plate, which is trying to slide north, is caught on this hook. That's where the tension is building. Eventually, the stress will overcome the resistance, and things will let go. Not saying that's where the big one will center, but it is a possibility.

Anonymous said...

SATS

Hey seeker, you are giving me an education here. In one post I have had to look up yellow journalism and electric cajon. They say you are never too old to learn but I definitely feel I am going mouldy here :-)

Hope everyone is okay.

rockpicker said...

SATS; Yellow journalism is what's spread out under the litter box on the back porch, isn't it?

Seeker; Here's a link to an article about the quake in Sacramento last night, with a california eq map.

http://beforeitsnews.com/earthquakes/2013/05/huge-earthquake-right-now-in-sacramento-california-huge-2460218.html

Anonymous said...

SATS

Thanks for that rp.:)

Btw it's a kind of drum

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0NVB-Yt3gE


Anonymous said...

SATS

Seeker:

Here is something about the California quake:

http://earthquake-report.com/2013/05/24/strong-earthquake-northern-california-on-may-24-2013-2/

All the big ones are happening around the Sea of Okhotsk at the moment, that is around the Siberian Shelf at the very top of the Pacific.

seven between M6 – M7 followed by an M8.2

http://earthquake-report.com/2013/05/24/earthquakes-in-the-world-on-may-24-2013-m4-5-or-more/

Forgive me if I am telling you something you already know but the Richter scale is logarithmic and open ended (no upper limit, it doesn't stop at 10). This means that for example an M5 is 10 times stronger than an M4; an M6 is 10 times stronger than an M5 and 100 times stronger than an M4; an M7 is 1000 times stronger than an M4 and so on. Hope this helps.

rockpicker said...

Seeker; Here's another useful site.

http://urbansurvival.com/week.htm

seeker said...

Electronic Cajon is a worried mother,in the middle of an anxiety attack,on a 15 minute work break, trying to spell the city of El Cajon, and having this maverick device,going off into left field.
Yellow Journalism is sensationalistic, hysterical reporting, designed to lather up its readers. It was printed on the cheapest paper around, usually of a yellowish hue. Thus, the moniker. Thank you,for the information and web sites. I appreciate your help.
Sats, I did know what the Richter scale was but did not know how it was calibrated. I always like learning new things.
Thank you you both.seeker

rockpicker said...

http://worldtruth.tv/gmo-labeling-bill-voted-down-in-senate/

Fuck them!

rockpicker said...

S'more yella journalism fer ya...

http://www.examiner.com/article/banking-insider-deutsche-bank-danger-zone-and-will-go-belly-up

nina said...

I reiterate what Charles said. Please let us know what you need, I will put up a list and a figure to aim towards on my blog. Who knows who responds? And yet, I have done it before for others and good things came of it from the most surprising sources. And I've sent stuff too, it makes everybody feel good. The best days of our lives are those with which we have an opportunity to be generous.

So send the list, Dude and Dudette. I shall be expecting your communique when you get it together.

onelove

Anonymous said...

i'll 3rd behind nina's 2nd. so, do it damn it!!

and... i finally found out what happened to those 2 posts i asked you guys about. they posted to the prev thread cuz i'd gone there to capture what i'd said in my first response after hearing about the fire.

just went there again for the same purpose cuz i wanted to extend the offer i'd made in one of those comments.


to put it another way... i'd forgotten where i was and posted to that thread instead of this one. it can be read there as the 2nd to last comment... p

and.... the offer stands!!

murph said...

Nina and Palooka,

I got the message loud and clear. At this time, I've no idea what to even ask for unless somebody has a spare $50 grand laying around you don't have a use for. I can't replace tools because I have absolutely no place presently to put them out of the weather. As it is, I have pallets in a couple of locations with salvageable tools on them covered with tarps. Until I get another building up, (currently in question) and places to stash stuff, I can't do a thing. Every single power tool I had was destroyed. If/when a building is put up, then have to do a complete wiring job from the main distribution point to the building. I'm going to be doing good to have this stuff done by winter it looks like.

Most of the folks from the Trout Clan live far enough away and have enough of their own hassles that I haven't any idea of what to ask for help on. Hell, if you all just packed up and came here, there is no place to put you up.

I most surely do appreciate your offers. I just don't see how to take advantage of it at this time.

rockpicker said...

http://beforeitsnews.com/protests-demonstrations/2013/05/march-against-monsanto-live-stream-2450612.html

Anonymous said...

SATS

Seeker, when I read your comment and first came across the term electronic Cajon I imagined it might be a resident of Louisiana that lights up in the dark but now I realise that I was mistaken – yet again :-)

However, that aside and quickly moving on, I know Arthur Silber is not to everybody's taste although many of mine and his views run along parallel lines. His latest piece combines yellow journalism, although he doesn't call it that, with a slice of how to read news articles which Gd recently alluded to. This time it on how well meaning sharing of experiences by privileged people can result in psychological sadism for the less than privileged .

http://powerofnarrative.blogspot.be/

seeker said...

As a person who manages her household of animals and child on app.1200 dineros per month, I can certainly understand that psychological sadism could occur from the well intentioned(maybe) privileged class.I know that life is what you earn.If you have to tote all of your water, you have a much better understanding and appreciation of it than if you have always had it brought to you on a silver platter. I will look into his writings. Thank you for the heads up sats. Seeker

freeacre said...

I turned to "Blacklisted News" this morning, and was chagrined to learn of the disgusting vote of the Congress regarding a weak attempt to counter Monsanto with tepid legislation. Even that was soundly defeated.
"Senate Shoots Down GMO Labeling Bill
May 25, 2013
Print Version

Elizabeth Renter
Natural Society

In yet another showing of their lack of concern towards the people who give them their jobs, Senators in Washington D.C. voted against a key GMO labeling amendment to the Farm bill. One that would have allowed states to decide to label the presence of genetically modified ingredients in food products.

They didn’t just vote it down, they did it overwhelmingly: 71 to 27. Let’s be clear—this wasn’t a bill that would have mandated the labeling of foods with genetically modified ingredients. No, it was far less provocative. This measure would have simply said it was okay for states to decide to do that for themselves.

“The concept we’re talking about today is a fairly commonsense and non-radical idea,” said the amendment’s sponsor, Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) according to the Huffington Post. “All over the world, in the European Union, in many other countries around the world, dozens and dozens of countries, people are able to look at the food that they are buying and determine through labeling whether or not that product contains genetically modified organisms.”

Vermont and more-recently Connecticut have both decided to label foods in their state. But they are concerned big-wigs like Monsanto will sue, particularly in light of this failure of a decision in the Senate.

One of the many senators who voted against what would seem to be commonsense and non-radical, Debbie Stabenow (D-Mich.) says that labeling GMO foods runs counter to what we “know” about them. This knowledge, she says, is that GMO foods are safe, no more dangerous than their “conventional counterparts.”

Apparently ignoring any of the research that runs to the contrary of that being put out by Monsanto-supporters, Sen. Stabenow talks about GMO crops as if they are the answer to the world’s prayers. That they are able to “resist crop diseases and improve nutritional content.” Stabenow and others like her must be getting their briefs directly from those within Monsanto itself.

Even more telling about where her (and others like her) allegiances lie, Stabenow said labeling GMO ingredients would “interfere with the FDA’s science-based process to determine what food labeling is necessary for consumers.” In other words, if it doesn’t come from Monsanto or the FDA, she doesn’t want to hear it.

She doesn’t want to hear about the study that showed GMO-fed rats developed mass tumors and died premature deaths. Senators like her don’t seem to care that research has shown GMO corn to be a contributor to the obesity epidemic. Apparently, studies linking GMO crops to lung damage, cancer, organ damage, and immune suppression aren’t “good enough” for the FDA, so they aren’t “good enough” for lawmakers.

The fact is, most processed foods on our store shelves contain GMO ingredients (usually corn or soy). Another fact, most conscientious consumers would like to know which foods are safe and which are not. But, with their decision to not grant states the right to decide for themselves, lawmakers have shown us (once again) where their loyalties lie."

I think we should send our Congress shills knee-pads so they can suck the corporate cock even more comfortably. Sorry to be so vulgar, but I am feeling grumpy.

Charles and Nina - Thanks, you guys. Good counsel regarding resistance to the insurance company. We should know next week just how badly they will try to fuck us over. Probably doesn't help that they will have so many more claims to deal with now that OK tornadoes have hit. Jeez.

Anonymous said...

“All over the world, in the European Union, in many other countries around the world, dozens and dozens of countries, people are able to look at the food that they are buying and determine through labeling whether or not that product contains genetically modified organisms.”

we are above every country in the world so we don't need such trivial but nuisance meddlin tellin our statesmen they have the right to tell us what we can and can't do.

as for ok being a prob w/the insc gods, it could be a godsend... they might be so busy as to say, oh fuck it, we got bigger fish to deny... p

Anonymous said...

oh yes, arthur sibler. i keep forgetting about him. he's done considerable investigation into the writings of alice miller and come to the same conclusions i have... alice, in a word, was RIGHT!!

but he puts it much better than i. he's a journalist. i'm a shade tree wannabe... p

rockpicker said...

Freeacre; I'm trying to locate an article I read yesterday, I think, about 800 scientists who wrote a letter to, the United Nations?, I don't know for sure, but the point is, these professionals were in total agreement that a moratorium should be invoked for at least five years on gmo's so that independent scientific research can determine the truth concerning the saftey of these dubious substances, but until I find that link, check this out.

http://dailyhealthworldnews.wordpress.com/2013/05/25/seeds-of-death-full-movie-march-against-monsanto-special-gary-null-releases-his-movie-seeds-of-death-for-free-viewing-for-a-limited-time-in-honor-of-the-march-on-may-25/

seeker said...

Called our good food store here and they gave me this web site for verifying which brands are not genetically modified. Have not had time to look at it; been running hard today, but I thought that Trout Clan
would be interested.non gmo project.org. Hope it helps.seeker

Anonymous said...

murph... i hear ya loud and clear. and what i hear is overwhelm and depression following the initial shock. no wonder. what happened to you guys was shocking and depressing and what you face is overwhelming. the BIIIIIIIG question.... do you have a start on an overall plan yet? i'm guessing no or you'd have some idea by now on what to ask for.

there are things the clan could do to help from where we sit. and i'm only aware of some ideas that might be helpful and maybe not. others will have their own about how they might help from where they sit. here's some of mine. take what you need and leave the rest. ...

- i have many 2's, 3's, 4's in tools. i know i have stuff you can use. i walk into my shop and see them all lined up on shelves. i stare at them. they stare back. some are happy to be retired cuz they're nearly worn slap out. but others are pinning to go back to work. cuz thats what they do. however, only certain ones would be worth the cost of shipping. but those that are you are welcome to and i'm happy to pay the shipping rather than jump on a plane. ie... i have not 1 but 2 paslode bat/gas framing nailers. the cost to ship relative to cost to buy, even used, is negliable. neither have been out of the shop for years. happy to send you 1. downside is the cost of gas cylinders and nails. only you can make that call. circular saws? i probably have 7 or 8 in working order. thing about it is though, you can probably buy a contractor grade at a yard sale for 25 bucks. likely to cost that to ship.

- tools are just one category. all kinda other stuff you lost and have need for that others have and would be willing and happy to send.

- ya, i know, no place to put stuff when it gets there eh? okay, what are you doing about temp stg? a field tent seems to me to be a no-brainer answer to that. i recall fa saying you guys have or have access to such? such leaves the freedom to put permanent stg on the back burner for now.

- as to the stuff you still have laying around.... liz dabbles in a thing she calls the stuff whisperer. technics designed for organizing spaces. but it could be modified to be specific to a fire clean-up. stuff. in your case this includes stuff to purge, stuff to give away, stuff to replace, stuff to fix, stuff to put here, stuff to put there, stuff that has to stay dry, stuff that can get wet, etc, etc. she's brilliant at it actually. at some point she wants to turn this into a bidness but right now, in midst of heavy, heavy DID therapy, she cannot be functional on a regularly dependable basis to be responsible to clients. but what she could do is guide you guys from here. she's developed templates that can be modified to your situation from which you can move along . how to set it up on paper then how to put it into action. you need a system from which to proceed. she's got one. it takes what's overwhelming and breaks it down into do-able action items that have an order to them. and ever damn thing thats not trash has to be cleaned eh? such would be addressed in the plan.

- obviously, we can send you $$ and several here have expressed ability and willingness. this could be used to fund replacements. yard sales and 2nd hand stores can save a fortune.

- but, i hear ya, you still need a place to put stuff. so, back to the ? on temp stg. cuz it sur sounds to me like yer at an impass until thats resolved.

- project transparency. someone, not me cuz i no jack shit about this but enuf to know such is available for free and do-able... someone makes a site or forum specific to your recovery where we can chatter back and forth. hell, it could be done on facebook!! that would give opportunity for good sams to help as well.

i'll shut up now and pass the stick... p

murph said...

Palooka,

Yup, keeping stuff out of the weather and further deterioration is the biggie right now. I have pallets with stuff on them that can possibly be made useful from sifting the ashes. Pallets are covered with tarps, roofing tin and whatever to keep water out or at least minimized. Currently we are in a weather system that says rain for 4 more days. Is also going to hamper the cleanup efforts. Was hoping to finish it this week but the rain may put a damper (chuckle) on doing that.

One of the metal storage sheds is salvageable with some roof work and some paint and figuring out what to do about the door way. However, it has to be moved in an effort to make things more convenient and efficient, and that means clearing the area I want to move it to and that is a relatively major project in itself. Plus, the shed to be moved has to also be emptied and salvage separated from now junk. More stuff to get under cover. Harbor freight has a special on where if I buy anything, get a 7 x 9 all weather tarp for free, offer is only on tomorrow. Since it is to be raining and working outside is a real drag, I may take advantage of it.

We have a tent that could be put up for temp storage, however, we had it up for some time a few years ago and the UV radiation started to deteriorate it. Plus, no convenient place to put it out of the way. sigh. Security of what is put in it is also a consideration. Only about 2/3 of the property is fenced with limited access. The dogs have warned me of some folks prowling around around 3 in the morning. Caught one in a spotlight and he ran away. Our security light was on the garage and relatively expensive to replace, and no real good area to put it up. We are relatively cash strapped until insurance settlement.

Will just have to take it a step at a time I reckon. What we end up doing to rebuild and make a more efficient running place seems to depend on the insurance settlement.

I was fairly critical of the previous owners placement of out buildings to begin with. Some of them would be way too expensive to move, and others I just never got around to it. Way too many other projects that were have-to's in our minds. Plus age has made 10-14 hour days of hard work not viable. As it is, 6 hrs of continuous work on the cleanup whips me out. If we had had full coverage on all content replacement at our discretion, it would have been much simpler, just bring in dumpsters and front end loader and be done with it.

You can bet that when this cleanup is done and building replacement is established, we will be frequenting yard sales and auctions for replacing stuff.

I've already given a bunch of stuff away that I can't feature keeping any longer, Over the last several years we have donated a bunch of "stuff" to organizational fund raising sales. Gradually cutting down the superfluous stuff. One of the problems with our life style is getting rid of stuff. I am loath to offing stuff that I can project a future use of or barter material. Not a modern concept at all.

it's all a conundrum for sure.

Anonymous said...

murph... thx for all that detail. it catches us up on where the process is. which, after gleaning thru sounds as if the most immediate need right now is for some dry weather. AND an operating fund. or, as casey stengel would say, CASH!

that we can help you with. how you feel about it can be worked on later. in the meantime consider it a gift or a loan or whatever you wanna call it. just let us send you some damn cash! ...p

Anonymous said...

and you don't even have to put up with our sorry asses when you have no place to put us up. cept for here... p

freeacre said...

Now, dear p, don't you go over-extending yourself. We got just as much money as we ever had coming in. The buildings will be replaced. Shitloads of garage sales and flea markets. Everybody here has had hard times in the past year or so. Everybody is living pretty close to the bone. So, RELAX. That goes for everybody.
I could use some tips from your lady. I seem to organize everything so that the stuff I don't use fills up all my drawers. So, the stuff I do use, is laying around on top of everything else. God, I hate that! Hopefully, now that we no longer have as much stuff, I can figure out a way to put some shit away. That would be good.

steve said...
This comment has been removed by the author.