Wednesday, December 30, 2009

2010 - We Can Do This



Feeding the birds

by freeacre


Good grief. Several of my “go to” writers have published their dire predictions for 2010. From James Howard Kunstler in this week’s Clusterfuck Nation, first, he rather colorfully summed up 2009 this way:

“2009 was the Year of the Zombie. The system for capital formation and allocation basically died but there was no funeral. A great national voodoo spell has kept the banks and related entities like Fannie Mae and the dead insurance giant AIG lurching around the graveyard with arms outstretched and yellowed eyes bugged out, howling for fresh infusions of blood... er, bailout cash, which is delivered in truckloads by the Federal Reserve, which is itself a zombie in the sense that it is probably insolvent. The government and the banks (including the Fed) have been playing very complicated games with each other, and the public, trying to pretend that they can all still function, shifting and shuffling losses, cooking their books, hiding losses, and doing everything possible to detach the relation of "money" to the reality of productive activity.
But nothing has been fixed, not even a little. Nothing has been enforced. No one has been held responsible for massive fraud. The underlying reality is that we are a much less affluent society than we pretend to be, or, to put it bluntly, that we are functionally bankrupt at every level: household, corporate enterprise, and government (all levels of that, too.)”
Well put, I’d say. Then he goes on to surmise what may happen next year in terms of continued bailouts, peak oil, and the continuation of failed policies. He thinks the heightened misery index will not be well received by the citizenry.
“… One wild card is how angry the American people might get. Unlike the 1930s, we are no longer a nation who call each other "Mister" and "Ma'am," where even the down-and-out wear neckties and speak a discernible variant of regular English, where hoboes say "thank you," and where, in short, there is something like a common culture of shared values. We're a nation of thugs and louts with flames tattooed on our necks, who call each other "motherfucker" and are skilled only in playing video games based on mass murder. The masses of Roosevelt's time were coming off decades of programmed, regimented work, where people showed up in well-run factories and schools and pretty much behaved themselves. In my view, that's one of the reasons that the US didn't explode in political violence during the Great Depression of the 1930s - the discipline and fortitude of the citizenry. The sheer weight of demoralization now is so titanic that it is very hard to imagine the people of the USA pulling together for anything beyond the most superficial ceremonies - placing teddy bears on a crash site. And forget about discipline and fortitude in a nation of ADD victims and self-esteem seekers.
I believe we will see the outbreak of civil disturbance at many levels in 2010. One will be plain old crime against property and persons, especially where the sense of community is flimsy-to-nonexistent, and that includes most of suburban America. The automobile is a fabulous aid to crime. People can commit crimes in Skokie and be back home in Racine before supper (if supper is anything besides a pepperoni stick and some Hostess Ho-Hos in the car). Fewer police will be on guard due to budget shortfalls.
I think we'll see a variety-pack of political disturbance led first by people who are just plain pissed off at government and corporations and seek to damage property belonging to these entities.”
The Survival Acres Newsletter contains a very dark scenario that begins in 2010, but includes an over-all view of the coming decade and beyond. It is not pretty:
“The next decade will see catastrophic changes of such scale and
magnitude, that this decade of human history will forever be
remembered as "the time of troubles". There will be little parallel
in past human history for comparison in scale, scope, size and
significance except the decade following this one which portends to
be even worse.

Many of us will probably be dead by 2020. This will be primarily the
result of the following factors: internal strife, war, disease,
plague, famine and extreme religious fundamentalism and widespread
violence. These events will begin immediately -- starting in 2010 and
continuing for through the following decade.

Root causes of these factors will be energy collapse, environmental
collapse, resource collapse and financial collapse affecting every
country of the world in the decade ahead. These are the collapsing
dominoes that underpin our entire civilization. All have been widely
abused and depleted even now, the next decade will see them falter
further and undergo full-scale collapse.”

He goes on to imagine worse and worse consequences of our collective mistakes, a sampling of which I quote here:

”… Entire countries will be abandoned to their own devices for their
survival as nations desperately hoard increasingly critical resources
for themselves. Primarily water and food will be the resource needed
most as the climate continues to spiral wildly from the norm and crops
collapse all over the world. But energy resources will be in
increasingly short supply and will precipitate the collapse of entire
economies.

2012 will be early and especially worrisome, as cultish behavior
among various groups and individuals replaces common sense in the
run-up to December 21st. Rage and riots will be replaced with despair
when prophecy proves false. Suicides will be at an all-time high among
easily influenced groups and people.

Hysteria within government, media, celebrities and pundits will
create a frenzy of hatred and froth towards groups, governments and
even individuals deemed 'responsible' for the growing crisis’s around
the world. In America, this hysteria will even achieve federal status
of protection, as lawmakers "protect" the practice of hatred and
xenophobia. Other countries will follow, believing themselves to be
under attack from within. Symptomatic responses will be the earmark
of this decade.

Politicians of all flavors will find it increasingly dangerous to
remain in office and more then a few will be forcibly removed and
assassinated. Political campaigns will resemble military conquest and
domination as contenders "vie" for the prize they seek, armed to the
teeth from the very people they claim to support. "Voting" will
become a highly manipulated and controlled affair, as increasing
privacy restrictions make simply being a citizen an unending
application process.

Privacy and rights will be completely gone by the end of the decade,
as fascist polices are layered higher and higher. Travel, purchasing,
possession and even ownership will become increasingly restricted and
controlled. The Internet will have been absorbed entirely into a
Total Information Awareness network whereby all activities, browsing,
buying and shopping will be highly controlled and manipulated. The
free press will cease to exist except underground and through
"monitored" outlets (manipulated)….”

Dmitri Orlof, on his site, “Club Orlof” sees, among other things, sophisticated attacks including aerial bombardment of isolated doomsteads attacked for their stored supplies in places like Montana by Russian mafia gangs! Good grief.

Of course, then there is Clif High at Half Past Human and his reportage of predictions based upon his advanced linguistics techniques of searching the world wide web for clues to the collective consciousness of our rather questionable species. His scenarios include much of the above with a lot more emphasis on natural disasters or occurrences of a planetary nature, like pole shifts, tectonic plate splitting, possible coronal mass ejections from the sun, and other life-as-we-know-it ending events in the not very distant future. His advise? Build a boat.

OK, OK, alright already. I get it. We’re doomed. But, is that all there is? Just a non-stop march into the worst possible problems and responses that anyone can imagine? I don’t think so. I respect each of these writes. And, I don’t discount the projections that they envision. But, in terms of my life and the lives of the people that I value (my tribe and community), my experience tells me that something is missing in these projections.

Maybe it’s because I am female. After all, for most of our experience, females of our species have lived and died with very little money, independence, or control over geo-politics, One could argue that collectively, women have been living a “post collapse” lifestyle for a thousand years. I am reminded of the quote from the movie, “Starman.”
“Would you like me to tell you what we find the most beautiful about your species?” the Starman asks of the SETI scientist. “It is that you are at your best when things are the worst.”

Let’s face it, women have made an art form of comfort in the face of brutality, powerlessness, and adversity. So, let’s not panic. Let’s break it down into manageable units, rather than get overwhelmed by the doom-o-sphere all at once. Take it day by day. Take a little time at least to focus on what is beautiful around you. Add to that beauty by making more lovely things – from simple flower arrangements or working with clay or wood or textiles. Look at the wonderful things produced by peasants with more time than money. Nurture other living things – from houseplants to animals and people. Even if you have nothing else, you will still have a lap to crawl up on and arms to embrace those around you. You have your face to smile into the faces of those you meet. You have your sense of humor to bring out a laugh from someone who needs it. You will have the music of your heart to cheer and soothe those around you. We will have our imaginations to create stories to tell to those who need encouragement and inspiration. We will have our gardens and our animals and our friends and our partners to love and to cherish even more each day. We will feed our families as creatively and nutritiously as possible. And, we will continue to add to the happy memories that children will carry throughout their lives.

Those of us who have been preparing are in a position that allows us to be somewhat more centered in the face of economic or resource collapse. Hopefully, we have kicked around these issues enough to have built up a store of emotional stability in the face of circumstances that might lead others to panic. I think it falls to us to lend a hand, lead by example, and help to extend a sense of kindness as well grace in the face of adversity in the coming year.

We can do this.

88 comments:

Publius said...

Beautiful.
Well said.
The doom and gloom is real only from the perspective of those who have a lot to lose.
Some of us don't, and that may be the best prep of all.

Hotspringswizard said...

I was going to say " well said Freeacre " but Publius beat me to it :-)Work now on making your life as simple as you can. The more you achieve this, the more able to adapt to the coming changes you will be. I once had a boss that sought his happiness by taking his 200,000 dollar speed boat out to a lake for the weekend. And you know, he didn't really ever seem truly happy. For me happiness is the simple riches of a wonderful relationship, spending long hours walking in natures beauty, or being engaged in some simple creativity like making little heads out of natural clay :-)Learn to fill your days with simplicity and see how your mind opens up, and how free you will feel :-)

MoonRaven said...

Thank you for writing this. It is so important to remember. "Nurture other living things – from houseplants to animals and people. Even if you have nothing else, you will still have a lap to crawl up on and arms to embrace those around you. You have your face to smile into the faces of those you meet." May we all be able to remember this as times get rough. Those 'in charge' certainly won't take care of us. We need to take care of each other.

I can only echo what Publius and Hotspringswizard said. 'Well said' indeed.

nina said...

Certainly we can do this, its been in preparation for a long time. Its been the sole happiness in these times, to nuture, to serve, to be grateful and compassionate. But I don't agree that it is a female trait as much as a spirituality trait although heh, I'm not a male.
It will not end, we're in it for the long term and we will make the best of it without thinking because that is who we are.

freeacre said...

Thanks, Guys. Point taken, Nina. Happily,we all have both masculine and feminine sides to our natures (and to our spirits). And, we need to have access to and demonstrate everything we've got. It's good to be reminded that "that's who we are."

wv: "aport" (in the storm?)

Zoner said...

Kunstler and his ilk are doom professionals - it's titled "Clusterfuck Nation", after all, so a certain perspective is to be expected and likely reinforced.

Yeah, signs indicate this and that and the other thing, but all possibilities are in play, even good ones or amazingly good ones. It just depends on the individual perspective and what one assigns to the "good" and "bad" piles when gazing ahead and predicting our collective future I think. The disintegration of our financial structure and predatory "support systems" (hey, we're doing all of this for YOU, really!), while potentially destructive to many innocents in its process, brings an opportunity for needed change.

Deep Doom is sooo 2009. Anyway, it should be quite a show as change does what it always does, arriving whether we are ready, comfortable, or desiring it, or not. To think all will be as it was again or stay the same is silly and would be a disaster, and counting on or wishing for that scenario starts the process that sees many carrying only the worst of outcomes as the ONLY possible outcome, because we cannot go backwards. We have been well trained and the steady diet of fear has done what was intended by those who instigate it and make their name and livelihood from amplifying it. What would Kunstler do if we all got beyond the shifts ahead unscathed and found ourselves in a Golden age of some sort? Likely find another aspect of our situation to bitch about.

Don't discount the "woo-woo" factor, either. None of this is written in stone and all options remain on the table as far as I can tell. One can see trends and signs, yes, but no one KNOWS all the factors in this grand equation, do they?

Calm the fearful voices if they are present, be open and embrace the constant that is change. Bend with the winds and know that to become rigid and resistant means a snapping is coming when things get blowing.

We absolutely WILL do this. There is no other choice that is really a choice after all. Don't let the fear noise scare you. There is another side of the coin.

Happy Blue Moon Trout Clan. My love to All!

Z

wv; cotics. Yes, they can be. And addictive, too.

Anonymous said...

Wow! Good company.

Best, turey.

murph said...

Welcome Turey, thanks for the comment.

zoner, you said, "One can see trends and signs, yes, but no one KNOWS all the factors in this grand equation, do they?" Boy does that appear to be true. One more time I state; Humans have a poor track record in predicting the future. One reason is your statement that we cannot know all the factors. Thanks.

Hotspringswizard said...

MoonRaven, That Raven in your blog photo looks just like one I was calling to today at a place I call Raven Mountain. I go hiking there often and it is a place quite high up with magnificent rocks of all shapes and colors. The Ravens are always there when I go, flying on the updrafts.

This one Raven today allowed me to get pretty close, maybe 25 feet or so away. I have their call down quite good and caw at them whenever they come over to inspect me and my dogs while hiking. So I was doing the Raven call and it was calling back. This Raven began bobbing his head up and down and he puffed up his neck. I don't know how they do that but maybe they fill their throats with air or something.

I really enjoy the Ravens and they come to our house also for water which I keep in our front yard in a small rectangular container near the ground. Some mornings if I'm out in our hot tub around sunrise hundreds of Ravens fly right over our house, heading from their roosting areas further out in the desert east of our home to the city where they usually find their meals for the day.

They are so adaptable and amazing survivors :-)

Anonymous said...

From Belgium

It seems there is a new post up for a while before I realise it and then I come in and ditto all the previous comments, so for the sake of being boring here it is again – “ditto”.

Moonraven, you know there not many things that happen without a reason and the present financial situation is no exception. I have heard it said the guys on Wall Street are so smart that if the government put a new obstacle in their way then within 24 hours they would have figured a way around it. Those who were pushing for deregulation of the markets knew exactly where it was going and where it would lead. Sad to say we are living in an age of planned despair. But as you say there is good news amongst the bad. In Belgium the Mexican flu shot was supposed to be mandated and the health department was suspended to be run by a committee headed by the king. Not that many turned up for the shot and two nights ago on the news, it was announced that in Belgium at least the Mexican flu crisis was officially over. The bad news is because of this same situation the schools in southern Belarus closed two weeks early for the Christmas break.

Many of you may have received this from Common Dreams and it seems appropriate to repeat it here :
“Ten years ago tonight the world nervously awaited midnight. Y2K.
Would computers freak out as the new century began? Would the networked modern world grind to a halt?
Or would all those stockpiles of bottled water and canned food sit unused on cellar shelves?
Ten years later, we realize that it wasn't Y2K that we should have feared. It was the decade to come on the other side of midnight.
Big events stand out: The stolen election of 2000. Bush. Cheney. 9/11. War on Afghanistan. War on Iraq. Abu Ghraib. The Patriot Act. Guantánamo. Katrina. Economic collapse.
But even more disturbing were the slow-motion trends: Global warming. Foreign policies driven by fear. Too-big-to-fail corporations increasingly dominating our political system. Growing disparity between rich and poor. The privatization of our schools, prisons and military.
As bleak as the last decade has been I believe two trends should give us great hope: the growing power of the internet as a political and organizing tool, and the growing voice of strong, independent media.
I also believe the proverb: It's always darkest before the dawn. “

I also agree with the Murphs’ policy of dropping out of the system so far as possible.

With that in mind I wish everyone the best 2010 possible.

SATS

Anonymous said...

my guitar teacher once told me... "there are those who are natural harmony singers and then there are those who learned to sing harmony. for the former such is art. for the latter, its a skill. an aware listener can always hear the difference no matter the manner of their own abilities be they natural or otherwise."

so ya, FA, i'd agree... that applies to the matriarchy as well. some things only the feminine can KNOW.

happy new year trout peoples.

wv... proli. proli true... other side of midnight proli gonna be a doozie. but the age of aquarius comes with the dawn... p

freeacre said...

2010 Resolutions

I’m going around today and burning an abalone shell full of sage (until the smoke alarm goes off) and ringing my Tibetan bowl to cleanse the house of 2009 vibes and start over. Then, I’m going to have some quiet time to contemplate my new year resolutions. At this time they include:

1) Eat even more organically. Radically reduce my intake of wheat, sugar, red meat, and dairy products.
2) Listen to more music.
3) Devote one day a week to making artistic projects like jewelry for trees or little rock, ceramic, or wooden faces, figures, or animals to leave around in the nooks of trees or on the ground or hanging from limbs.
4) “Be there” for people.
5) Get a bike and ride it.

aho

wv: "pregat" oh, dear..

freeacre said...

...got to give credit to HSW for the inspiration to do artistic stuff. "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery."

Hotspringswizard said...

A fine list of resolutions you have set for yourself Freeacre :-) All of them will bring more strength and inspiration into your life :-)

And Belgium your 4:21AM post, excellent points you make!

Anonymous said...

From Belgium

I can't argue with any of those Freeacre but I though you mentioned a long time ago, that you already had a trike?

Anonymous said...

Excellent posting on this site. The most positive and mindful bunch of people I have yet to run across. Charles Hugh Smith is also a positive dude too. I love Kuntsler as well. He is not a doomer though. Yes, he is making his projections but they are all based on what is or has been happening around this land of ours. But he offers hope too. Like Belguim states the last decade has been pretty evil. So it is hard to really see the positive. But if you let go of anger, greed and get some patience along with daily meditation (your own style of those written about) all leads to kindness.

The most poigent part of Kunslers 2010 prediction was the point of most people are down right uncivil and our manners stink. This is why we are led by our leaders the way we are. Thus the practice in kindness. It starts with us The Trout Clan.

Scrap Wood

freeacre said...

Hey, Scrap Wood! I concur with you that we have a rather exceptional mix of souls who have discovered this site. I'm pleased that another has shown up and felt at home, and looking forward to getting to know you.

freeacre said...

LOL.. You're right, Belgium, I did have a trike. But the dumb thing was impossible to steer on our dirt road with lots of pot holes. It kept running me into a ditch! So, I sold it to a neighbor for his grandchild, who lives somewhere else. Got to get a mountain bike with a little wagon or something.

Hotspringswizard said...

With all of the grim scenarios that our future appears to hold, I am reminded of a scene in the film trilogy of the Lord Of The Rings.

I think of us like Frodo in terms of our individual circumstances in that we each are facing these daunting challeges before us, great changes now in process, with much more to come.

Frodo in the scene is at the point of losing all hope and is seeing no purpose in continueing the struggle of destroying the Ring of power, something that if it was to fall into the hands of the darkest lord of evil, the fate of all would cascade into doom.

The Fellowship of the Ring, the ones given the task of seeing the destruction of the ring being done, have seen their mission beginning to come apart at the seams, and everything is going very badly, with failure seeming imminent.

Gandalf who is sitting next to Frodo after seeing in him, and hearing of, his lack of hope, says to him with kindly grace and wisdom something like this, We should not concern ourselves with how much time we have, but rather, consider what we will do with that time.

Its easy these days to feel all is lost, there is no hope, and the time of the good in life we have known is short. But to me Gandalfs message speaks of releasing yourself from that which you cannot change, because you are still here, alive, and still able to carry out the mission of goodness, even if its only in the small ways of our own lives.

Everyday there is much we can do toward this end. Of the highest priority I think is the cultivation of meaningful and inspiring relationships with people we find special in our lives. Finding ways to become a more sustainable component of the larger realities of this finite world we live in. Learn from some, teach this to others, help those in need when you can.

I too feel the anger that is engendered when one becomes more aware of the scope of ill deeds that continues to occur in the world, just as it has gone on in the past, and will in our future.
But I see no purpose in dwelling in this mental state regarding these things.

Turn anger into the determination to make your life a thing of purpose, a journey of good deeds in all their forms. In that way you will be living the life Gandalf was suggesting, making important and meaninful the time you are given :-)

On another subject, I was wondering what the " wv " referred to at the end of some peoples post. Today I realize perhaps its related to the Word Verification we enter when we post. Well today mine was " Winged ". Wings that uplift ones spirits is what I consider Gandalfs small bit of wisdom to be! How appropriate a coincidence :-)

MoonRaven said...

Thank you for that thought, HSW. I particularly like your quote from LOTR: "We should not concern ourselves with how much time we have, but rather, consider what we will do with that time." Something we should all take to heart in these difficult times.

freeacre said...

Not to go all woo-woo on you guys, but a friend sent me this link this morning regarding water and the effect that our thoughts and words have on it. Here's the like to the rather lengthy video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5wN0qGu1gI&feature=rec-LGOUT-exp_fresh+div-1r-1-HM
Essentially, it shows several scientists who take kerlian photos of frozen water after someone has said or imagined differing things about it, or subjected it to different music. It forms differing patterns depending on whether one thinks or says loving, positive messages or sends negative vibes its way. Since we and all living things are mostly composed of water, it demonstrates that our words and thoughts really do have a measurable effect. Needless to say, I am not going to skip saying grace before a meal in the foreseeable future. Gratitude and appreciation seems to make plants grow faster, and have myriad positive effects. I think cultivating this ability would even make our demise a sacred experience, as Carolyn Baker's book would have it.
And, yes, HPW, the wv does refer to the word verification thingy. Funny how synchronized they sometimes seem to be.

Hotspringswizard said...

Well Freeacre, here is something I find interesting. You cite this information about water being affected by our thoughts. We have a Parakeet. Now many times I've been on the computer while being engaged in this or that which requires me to more intensely think about what I'm doing, like concentrating on reading something or writting something. But when I finish this task of more involved thinking, our parakeet begins to chirp alot after being silent.

This has consistently happened over and over whenever I am on the computer. Now I thought that perhaps I move differantly or something in these cases which the bird sees from his vantage point nearby. But this happens even when his cage is covered with a blanket that I know he could not see through.

So I've wondered just what does our parakeet detect when I change my mental state from one of intense concentration to a more relaxed state after finishing what I am doing. I've seen information discussing that people have energy auras. I know differant organisms can see wavelengths of light that humans can't see. Whatever our bird is picking up on it appears not to be visual.

Maybe there is some other form of energy the bird can detect from the changes in my brain activity. I don't of course know what is really happening but it is curious.
Birds are known to use the earth's magnetic field to help them migrate, bees use this too I think.

In our cosmos of apparent infinity, what really is the extent of what we know, compared to what we don't know or are not aware of? Our lives are lived in the little bubble of our own personel experience, which is adrift in an endless sea of unknown possibilities of experiential reality.

I think of our ability to know as akin to our minds peeling back the layers of an onion, except that this onion has infinite layers. We move through our life experience as the layers of understanding peel away, but its a journey through landscapes of the mind with no ultimate destination. Our perceptions morph into something new all along the path from the sleep of our beginnings to the transition at the end of our days.

So many interesting things going on. So many new things to learn about and ponder. Its all such a fascinating journey indeed :-)

Anonymous said...

Hey! -I've figured out what I want to be when I grow up! I want to be a Na'Vi and live on Pandora! Being a reluctant member of the Sky People sucks der big veinerschnitzel!

Man, Avatar was a GREAT movie. I couldn't stop thinking about it aftward and think I'll take my Mom to see it this weekend so I can see it again.

Mike Ruppert has posted some REALLY frightening stuff on his site today. After reading it, I kinda felt the urg to leave work and jump off a bridge -or drink beer while I zone out on the tonight's bowl game. Go Boise State!

-Randy

Hotspringswizard said...

I've mentioned here before that I figure efforts at your " local " level are going to be the best option for you to try and address the many changes coming your/our way. The various world " leaders " will not be making the wide range of wise and consequential decisions that would be realistcally necesary to produce meaningful mitigating solutions to the vast array of converging catastropes now impacting humanity. In this new article from Richard Heinberg it looks like he has come to the same conclusion:

http://www.energybulletin.net/node/51112

The Meaning of Copenhagen

" To summarize: three factors—the need for resilience, the lack of effective policy at national and global levels, and the tendency of the best responses to emerge regionally and at a small scale—argue for dealing with the crushing crises of the new century locally, even though there is still undeniable need for larger-scale, global solutions.

Does this mean we should give up even trying to work at the national and global levels? Each person will have to make up her or his own mind on that one. To my thinking, Copenhagen is something of a last straw. I have no interest in trying to discourage anyone from undertaking national or global activism. Indeed, there is a danger in taking attention away from national and international affairs: policy could get hijacked not just by parties even less competent than those currently in command, but by ones that are just plain evil. Nevertheless, this writer is finally convinced that, with whatever energies for positive change may be available to us, we are likely to accomplish the most by working locally and on a small scale, while sharing information about successes and failures as widely as possible.

A final note: As 2010 begins we are about to enter the second decade of the 21st century. Historians often remark that the character of a new century doesn't make itself apparent until its second decade (think World War I). Perhaps peak oil, the global financial crash, and the failure of Copenhagen are the signal events that will propel us into the Century of Decline. If these events are indeed indicative, it will be a century of economic contraction rather than growth; a century less about warnings of environmental constraints and consequences than about the fulfillment of past warnings; and a century of local action rather than grand global schemes.

I suspect that things are going to be noticeably different from now on. "

freeacre said...

Yup. Today has been a rough day. Ruppert's site, indeed, was very grim. He has resisted the idea of war with Iran, but now he's thinking it might happen, and soon. It's also looking like Pakistan is soon to be a failed state, with the attendant worries regarding their nuclear arsenal. Then, it looks like the money market funds that so many people have might tank. And, to top it off, Russia just opened a new pipeline and state of the art oil terminal that makes them a main supplier of oil for the East as well as Europe. Now, have us stupidly expanding the combat in the Middle East, interrupting the oil from there, and Russia pretty much controls it and the price goes ballistic (pun intended). Check Mate. Maybe this is Russia's way of saying, "Do NOT bomb Iran." If so, I hope it works.
Today it seems like I am living in an insane asylum. I could use a vacation. Going to try for Avatar again tomorrow.

Anonymous said...

From Belgium

A news item on tonight’s news stated that there were 220,000 unemployed in North Belgium and this is expected to jump by 60,000 to 280,000 during 2010. An item on last night’s news stated that the Government was talking about increasing the state retirement age from 65 to 67. Does this make any sense to you?

Anonymous said...

Aaahh Freeacre, the true essence of a pioneering woman! I knew I could look here and find some light from your silver mind reflecting on the doom we face. What better to fight the darkness than to keep your head lamp on! So true what you have said about we women and our nurturing. We do have to consider what's ahead but we must also be in the moment. It's not easy to bring this stuff to the table every day yet we must. Love it when you "talk story" it's always well written and flows and you always bring some goods. Smiles to you and your homestead. x, mrsp

Anonymous said...

HSW... liz and i have experienced what may be a form of whatever IT is. its gone something like this... i ask her a question. the question is of the nature that begs a certain amount of effort in the way of focus. this parallels your description of you're increased focus on the computer. but in our case its happened when we both had emotional investment in the context from which the question developed. so i ask the question and she thinks about it for a space in time to form a reply. iow, a thought form develops in her mind and it begins to formulate a reply. and its happened where i actually heard her verbalize her reply BEFORE she actually verbalized it. not as me in my mind picking up on the thought form in her mind but actually hearing her voice her reply. we discovered this quite by accident of course. doo do doo do... p

murph said...

Well, good news. Freeacre and I finally made it to a showing of “Avatar”. We intended to do some shopping afterward but weather was turning nasty and in the mountains of the north, it’s best to get your ass home when that happens.

The movie is every bit as striking as people have commented. Wow! Indeed.

In my opinion, the movie has two attributes to make it worth while to see.

Go to a theater that can show it in 3-D, not all of them have this capability. The technology involved in this movie is really something. 3-D has sure improved. The graphics and art work will probably win a bunch of awards.

The message is interesting also. It takes some heavy shots at corporations and sides with the concept of sustainable living with the environment. Within this is also the message that there is a hell of a lot more to reality than what science tells us.

This movie deserves more than one viewing. So many nuances and messages that I think it is difficult to pick up on all of it in one sitting.

I would presume that most of you have seen articles by the right wing of the conservatives heavily criticizing the movie. They say it has hidden messages and that it is heavy propaganda for the liberal agenda, you know, tree huggers and such, and the living in harmony with the environment. I think the next time I am accused of being a tree hugger I am going to come back with; Well, about as much as you are a corporation hugger, or have you hugged a banker CEO lately? Or some such response. From what I understand, some ministers are advising their sheeple flock to not go to the movie since it encourages primitive religion and the occult. I notice that they don’t object to the movie action of killing the indigenous population wholesale or the big wig company man who just shrugs his shoulders at the killing.

I think it would be interesting to see if the corporation stays away from this world or comes back with more killing machines in a squeal. Are the profits great enough to do it again with bigger, better and more thoroughness?

freeacre said...

Well, I am flabbergasted. I hope the message of this movie, going out to millions all over the world will be momentous. Thoughts are waves. Catch the wave.

freeacre said...

p... you actually HEAR her reply before she says it? Maybe this is a form of the time distortions that HPH has predicted. Clif has written a very interesting essay on time that is on his website (halfpasthuman). Hummm.... oh, by the way, thanks for suggesting we see Julie?Julia. It was great! Probably another Oscar for Meryl Streep.

rockpicker said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
rockpicker said...

I stand with Birgitta Jonsdottir!

Go Iceland

To Hell with the IMF!

Anonymous said...

Happy New Year to All!!

Just got back from a very brief vacation... a personal time out as it were.

I am hoping for positive things things in 2010 but I fear that may be optomistic.

Here is a very interesting article I came across.

A long while back someone had asked what it is like living down here in South America and in particular Colombia.

I think if you read through this article, it's a long one I will warn you now, but it does paint a pretty good picture of what social life is like in this part of the world. There are a lot of truths to what this guy writes and I admit some of it would seem to be inside the Oh BS category.. yet I have seen and now believe.

Anyway I found it a good read... take from it what you may if nothing at all.

http://www.survival-spot.com/survival-blog/argentina-collapse/


Cheers to all


Ely

rockpicker said...

I rub knees with a burn barrel
past the last streetlamp,
at the eastern edge
of some western cowtown,
scratching my unkempt scalp
as flames lick down to ash
and question what it is
I must fear tonight?

The majority of a low
despicable decade staggers
blind drunk and collapses
in an alley, unable to deceive
another day. Loathe to muster
a face to meet the faces
it must greet, it falls
headlong, with curses
and broken glass.

(I hope it's sliced an artery
in it's ass.) Plato knew,
as all elites presume,
those qualified to lead
head a select few. Pensioners
buy paperbacks to burn in barrels
and cook morsels over.
My friends at the hospital
will never shiver. Once,
I remember, my face in the
backbar glass shone back true

with pure belief that every man
was good. That was before
I understood the broken alley
of men, and the skyscrapers
bankers torch with jocular
disregard to see who notices
and who objects. Fear them
on whom you have bestowed
the privilage of declaring worth.
Life is a solo flight on Earth.

January 7, 2010 12:04 AM

Hotspringswizard said...

Barack Obama re-affirms today that he is just another tool of the military industrial complex, the corportations, the banksters, etc ( and a willing tool from my perspective ). He shows again and again that he endorses the same kinds of concepts that were seen in the time of the Dark Lords of Bush and Chenney.

Today we saw him say this, " We are at war aganist Al-Qaeda ". He used the words terrorist, extremist, Al-Qaeda, which are all implied to mean essentially the same thing, those that want to kill americans, because they hate us all, and our " american way of life ".

He spoke of Al-qaeda gaining followers from all around the world, from people with no known terrorist associations before. The intent being to bring the general public to a mindset that Al-qaeda, the terrorist, the extremist that want to do us harm can be considered to be coming from everywhere, and from any types of people.

At the White House news conference today John Brennan, the deputy national security advisor, speaking in reference to the ealier Obama news conference said this, " Al Qaeda is dedicated to murder and the wanton slaughter of innocents all around the world ", and, " Al qaeda has an agenda of destruction and death ". Basically he could have said there intent is to, Kill, Kill, Kill!

Also during this same White House news conference homeland security secretary Napalitano was asked by reporter Helen Thomas a couple of questions, one of them being, " what do you feel was the motivation for the individual involved with the Xmas day attempted plane bombing ".

Napalitano answered the other question but purposely sidestepped Helen's question about motivation. This of course is what they always do, since their objective is to pump up general public fear, not delve into the reasons why various groups are angry with the US.

They want to instill in the general public the idea that these are plain and simple just " evil people ", and since they are " evil ", because we told you so, then there is no justification for what they do, and why they do it. Its really simple, so do worry about the deeper, truer implication behind whats going on, just except with blind faith what we tell you!.......

continued

Hotspringswizard said...

And today they blamed the Xmas day incident on a " systemic failure " which was completely predictable, since of course now no one in particular will be held to account for the boondoggle ( which was made up or otherwise ).

This most recent incident is another in a long list of others used at regular intervals to whip of the fear of the general public so they will fall in line and support all the furthering of mindboggling spending that goes into the constructs of the military industrial complex, homeland security, and the vast array of geopolital power moves around the world in furtherance of the desired agendas of the PTB, the corporations, the military complex, the banksters, etc.

Al-qaeda, the terrorist, the extremist all make up the perfect Boogey Men than can be perpetually used in creating a froth of fear, defining a threat, from anybody, anywhere in the world these despicable people deem they have an interest.

Its all a humungous dog and pony show, fake threats, fake people in the form of the all pervasive terrorist ( and its other names )which is the perfect tool for having an endless enemy that could be found everywhere, in any form, and not incidently one that can, and will easily be manufactured to exist on endlessly into the future.

Who needs the old style threats ( like the USSR ) that were limited, too easily defined. Now they have created an existential threat to americans and their way of life that knows no end. How perfect for the job security of the military industrial complex, and its intergral partners of the corporations and the banksters. How perfect a tool to use to give creedence and justification, any time you need it for your interest, anywhere in the world.

Of course these interest in truth find their form in the rampant plundering of other places, and other peoples to feed the voracious greed, and desire for power of the types of peoples in pivitol positions who are inclined towards behaviors and actions of this dispicable nature.

Now that these folks have created their perfect boogey men to hate forever, they will continue ( like we saw today ) to flog this idea that they are out there, all the time, ready to thrust their knives deep into our hearts, and our only hope is to let " them " stop the mindless terrorist, extremist, Al-Qaeda. They would implore you that, " Without us you are surely doomed. Be afraid, always very afraid, and most of all, don't ask too many questions about what we're doing, and don't think for yourselves. Just go to sleep and dream of being a good consumer. There now, don't you feel so much better! "

Anonymous said...

FA... yes. twice. and not something i or she have or had any intent to do or control over.

Anonymous said...

From Belgium

Yes HSW, anybody else think that the Christmas day guy could be, like Al Qaeda, just another CIA asset to pump up the fear at the same time there is another mass gathering around the gulf? Maybe that’s why the “Why did he do it” question was left hanging, it’s just a thought.

Hotspringswizard said...

Here is something that is a perfect follow up to the ideas discussed in my last two postings, and also I think is related to what Beligium speaks to:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=16786

The Yemen Hidden Agenda: Behind the Al-Qaeda Scenarios, A Strategic Oil Transit Chokepoint

........An excuse for a US or NATO militarization of the waters around Bab el-Mandab would give Washington another major link in its pursuit of control of the seven most critical oil chokepoints around the world, a major part of any future US strategy aimed at denying oil flows to China, the EU or any region or country that opposes US policy. Given that significant flows of Saudi oil pass through Bab el-Mandab, a US military control there would serve to deter the Saudi Kingdom from becoming serious about transacting future oil sales with China or others no longer in dollars, as was recently reported by UK Independent journalist Robert Fisk.


It would also be in a position to threaten China’s oil transport from Port Sudan on the Red Sea just north of Bab el-Mandab, a major lifeline in China’s national energy needs.


In addition to its geopolitical position as a major global oil transit chokepoint, Yemen is reported to hold some of the world’s greatest untapped oil reserves. Yemen’s Masila Basin and Shabwa Basin are reported by international oil companies to contain "world class discoveries."[10] France’s Total and several smaller international oil companies are engaged in developing Yemen’s oil production. Some fifteen years ago I was told in a private meeting with a well-informed Washington insider that Yemen contained "enough undeveloped oil to fill the oil demand of the entire world for the next fifty years." Perhaps there is more to Washington’s recent Yemen concern than a rag-tag al Qaeda whose very existence as a global terror organization has been doubted by seasoned Islamic experts........

Bab el-Mandab is off the coast of Yemen. What is discussed above are likely reasons why the US is now focusing on this country and the corportation controlled MSM is feeding the frenzy as they are instructed to do by their controllers. The Al-Qaeda boogey man scary terrorist bit once again provides the false justifications needed for US military actions and involvement in an area of its
" interest ".

Hotspringswizard said...

Also related to Belgium's thoughts:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=16780

Who Would Benefit Politically from a Terrorist Incident on American Soil? The Strange Case of Umar Farouk Abdul Mutallab

......... One would have thought, given the "special treatment" afforded antiwar activists by TSA at airports, that a warning about Abdul Mutallab's possible involvement with terrorists, by his own father no less, a former top official in a government friendly to Washington, numerous NSA intercepts, a CIA dossier and MI5 reports would have raised at least one red flag!

In the suspect's case, there were so many red flags flying you'd have thought the Red Army was parading through Amsterdam's Schiphol Airport!

Then again, perhaps Abdul Mutallab was on that plane because, as journalist Daniel Hopsicker was told by a former aviation executive during his investigation of the 9/11 attacks: "Sometimes when things don't make business sense ... its because they do make sense...just in some other way."

As the World Socialist Web Site points out:

The general outlines of the Northwest bombing attempt and the 9/11 attacks are startlingly similar. One might even say that what is involved is a modus operandi. In both cases, those alleged to have carried out the actions had been the subject of US intelligence investigations and surveillance and had been allowed to enter the country and board flights under conditions that would normally have set off multiple security alarms.

Both then and now, the government and the media expect the public to accept that all that was involved was mistakes. But why should anyone assume that the failure to act on the extensive intelligence leading to Abdulmutallab involved merely "innocent" mistakes--and not something far more sinister? (Bill Van Auken, "The Northwest Flight 253 intelligence failure: Negligence or conspiracy?," World Socialist Web Site, December 31, 2009)

And so dear readers with are left to ponder the question, cui bono?

Who would benefit politically from a major terrorist incident on American soil, ready, willing and able to step into the breach and exploit the catastrophic loss of human life that would follow in its wake?

freeacre said...

... uh, shall we say the same cast of criminal characters that have been profiting from the resource wars, sucking up all the money, and enslaving the productive class? See you in the gulag.

Anonymous said...

From Belgium

Has anyone considered the possibility that Saudi Arabia or Yemen for that matter might decide not to sell oil to the USA at all; not in dollars, Euros or any other currency. After it is their oil, they can do what they like with it. It is not as if they would loose money, it is as good lying in the ground as it is pumped out. Better still would be to put them on a short leash, say a quota of 80% of current levels with a threat to strangle it even further. Wouldn’t that put the cat amongst the pigeons? Washington might even be forced to be pleasant to that nice Mr Chavez (ha).

rockpicker said...

And, Belgium, did you read about the new pipeline and oil depot in eastern Siberia, that has just gone online and will allow the Russians to send oil east to Japan, Korea and China?

Next time Russia threatens to turn off the flow to central Europe, it can not be considered an idle boast, as they have other outlets and can keep their revenues coming in, while the Holy Romans burn their furniture to keep from freezing.

Yesterday, in southwest Montana, without the wind chill, it was 17 below F. This afternoon it's now a balmy 25 degrees. And I think we missed the worst of it. For once.

murph said...

Ely,

That link you posted is exception first person account of what happens in a failed state and what that dude experienced and how he dealt with it all.
http://www.survival-spot.com/survival-blog/argentina-collapse/

I remember seeing another essay by a dude from a S. American country that was along the same lines.

Thanks for that

Anonymous said...

From Belgium

Rp, The main gas and oil supply pipeline from Russia to Europe passes through Belarus and every year there is a standoff between these two countries. Russia increases the price of its products and Belarus increases its fee for onward transporting the black stuff into Europe, which usually ends in deadlock or brinkmanship at least. On occasions Russia has shut off the pipeline and Belarus steals the product anyway. I have heard a figure quoted that Belarus pays Russia 10% of its GDP which is a lot. In order to combat this situation Russia is building a second pipeline into Europe down the middle of the Baltic Sea but I don’t know how far advanced this is. Then Belarus and Russia can have their spat without Europe being blackmailed.

rockpicker said...

Brasscheck tv has posted a new offering by Jesse Ventura's show Conspiracy Theory, available also online at TruTVonline. Here's the brasscheck link. It has to do with the BIG players behind the "global warming scam."

http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/774.html

Belgium, here's a link to the piece I read on Russia's newly completed pipeline and depot in Kozmino, eastern Siberia, and what it will mean to our collective futures.

http://www.thetrumpet.com/index.php?q=6872.5382.0.0

I was thinking, from remebered news reports last year, that it was Ukraine through which the Russian pipeline passed on its way to Europe.

wv- insies

Anonymous said...

RP... your're reference to "global warming scam." inspires deeper, albeit perhaps squirrely, thoughts on "we can do this" from this one. the only thing anthropogenic about anthropogenic global warming (AGW) are the bullshit claims that define it as anthropogenic! this has led to fundamental misunderstandings and misinterpretations on the part of the masses fueled by a collection of what are supposed to be the brightest of the shining star expert scientists on the planet.

the result is twofold:

1... there is phenominal pressure to hijack the issue by a disturging number of special interests motivated by a wide range of factors from political to monetary to personal power and that just about everything in our near future will be influenced by this. except the climate itself. the very issue upon which all this vockeying for position, power, and money spins. aka, scam!!

2... the other result is a phenominal pressure attempting to guilt-trip the commom man onto this bandwagon and buy into this whole AGW thing and force ourselves into modifying our lifestyles based on personal and collective carbon footprints. there are legitimate reasons to modify life styles and views but AGW is NOT one of them!!

intended or not, another outcome of this is the further empowerment of those special interest agendas that results when we invest our own personal power by buying into one or another of these various flim flams. i.e., the monetization of it into personal financial gain. i can conjur a visual of the rhetoric on financial networks like cnbc in the months and years to come but i trust you're imaginations to be as vivid and capable as my own.

thus the scam runs deep and far beyond what is recognized as the motivating issue. the "issue" is only the means to justify various, many of which are nefarious, ends.

so what do we, the common man, do? the only thing we can really know for sure right now is that the stars don't know what they claim to know and that there are huge power plays being enacted based on what is at best, no more than science based on assumption and point of view. until classical science can demonstrate a basic understanding of how U operates including how electricity really works and how manifestation into form in 3D realities happens we will have no basis to claim so-called enlightment! and until such time the best we grunts can do is educate ourselves on the fundamentals and realize this about what we and, more importantly, THEY don't know. and then, use what we do know in context of what we don't know to choose where and how to invest our own personal power. believe it or not but how we do that will have an impact one way or another on how this latest fear mongoring tactic and moves to highjack the sentiment of the masses plays out. this link is a good start... http://www.thunderbolts.info/
thunderblogs/thornhill.htm

...p

Anonymous said...

From Belgium

Here is paragraph written by Joël van der Reijden, a Dutch author I have a lot of time for since his work is always thoroughly researched and referenced. Here is a very rare example in which he expresses a personal opinion on the Global Warming issue, hence the following disclaimer.

* This paragraph primarily reflects the author's opinion. It is not meant as an in depth discussion of the theory that CO2 is causing catastrophic global warming.

The human-induced global warming agenda *

A formerly unsubstantial aspect of the environment movement, the idea that CO2 is causing global warming, has become a very hot item since former vice president Al Gore came out with his documentary 'An Inconvenient Truth' in 2006. Since that time the media has bombarded Western society with the "undeniable fact" that the earth is heating up, that we humans are the cause of it, and that if we fail to make drastic changes, a large portion of the earth's population will die in horrible cataclysms.

The problem with Al Gore's theories is that they are terribly lopsided, as documentaries as Channel 4's 'The Great Global Warming Swindle' and CBC's 'Global Warming Doomsday Called Off' have shown. Although the former may take a slightly too biased approach from a skeptical point of view, both documentaries clearly show that 'An Inconvenient Truth' is nothing more than a crude propaganda piece. The changes the earth - not to mention other planets in the solar system - is going through are likely to be nothing more than a natural cycle largely caused by the sun's increased energy output.

Unfortunately for the world, Al Gore is backed by the most powerful interests in the Anglo-American liberal establishment, resulting in almost zero opposition to the theory that human-produced CO2 is the major cause for the warming of the earth. The WWF is just one establishment institute that blindly supports Al Gore's theories. Looking at their websites, other organizations promoting the ideas of Al Gore are the Business and Industry Advisory Committee of the OECD, the International Chamber of Commerce, the James A. Baker III Institute for Public Policy, the Rockefeller Brothers Fund, and the Carnegie network. The Carnegie Endowment alone makes large annual grants to numerous United Nations programs, to the CFR, the Royal Institute of International Affairs, and the Atlantic Council of the United States, not to mention dozens of universities in the United States (including Harvard, Yale, and Princeton). It works closely with the Ford Foundation, the MacArthur Foundation, and the Rockefeller Foundation.

Anonymous said...

From Belgium

Part 2

And:

David Rockefeller, Edmund de Rothschild, and Maurice Strong (not to mention James Baker III) already promoted an agenda in the 1980s that their associate Al Gore only really put on the map in 2006 with his film 'An Inconvenient Truth'. At these early meetings, Strong introduced Edmund the Rothschild as the founder of the "conservation banking" program. The audio recordings are hard to dispute, but let's hope the document produced by George Hunt in which these people describe using the United Nations to take over the world is not true. (see old introduction article for details) The Gore family has intermarried with the Schiff family of The Pilgrims and the Wildlife Conservation Society. Gore's closest ally in his global warming campaign is Theodore Roosevelt IV, another establishment family whose members for decades have been top-level CIA officers and in one case an anti-Establishment (disinformation) propagandist. Family members also were great fascist appeasers who supported the overthrow of FDR in favor of a more "right wing" government (see Pilgrims Society article for the details). You can find this latest Theodore Roosevelt in such organizations as the Alliance for Climate Protection (vice chair under Gore), the Pew Center for Global Climate Change (chairman), the World Resources Institute, and the Wilderness Society. Maurice Strong is also still very active today. He is chairman of the Earth Council Alliance and sits on the board of the Chicago Climate Exchange, a CO2 trading scheme.

rockpicker said...

For more on, or moron, Maurice Strong, look at the Jesse Ventura Conspiracy Theories link posted above. He's not only credited with being the world's top "environmentalist," but he's also a billionaire industrialist. Maybe that should be oxy-moron.


wv- ovetic

rockpicker said...

Hey, boys and girls, whaddaya think of this guy's plan?

http://www.theheartlandusa.com/

Greg Evenson was interviewed by Kerry Cassidy last week on Whistleblower Radio. It's archived on the project camelot site.

wv- spent

murph said...

The last couple of comments take a dim view on the anthropogenic global warming stuff (AGW). I hear quite frequently that it is all a scam.

There seems to me a couple of ways this needs to be discussed.

1. Is this to say that human actions have to long term impact of the environment? If humans can impact the soil, the water, the fish population, the extinction of a huge amount of species of animals and plants, does it follow that humans have no impact on the atmosphere, namely, the warming of the earth?
2. Whose sets of data are we to believe? The measurement of the earth and sea temp has been going on for over 50 years now. The data I have seen indicates that it is overall, warming. Is that all bad data?
3. Who will benefit from either side of the argument? Looks to me that no matter the truth of the idea, there is great benefits to be gained either way.
4. The objections to the AGW comes mostly from the conservative right as near as I can tell. Are they trustworthy and believable? We spent 8 years condemning them for their ideological agendas.

Personally I consider Al Gore to be a mammoth hypocrite and a shaker and mover. I don't trust him at all. It was also obvious to me that his "Inconvenient Truth"
was a bundle of propaganda, then to be consistent we also have to view all the agenda based documentaries with some skepticism, like Michael Moore.

We know that we are living in a society that indulges in massive propaganda and depends on masses of people buying into some ideology and acting accordingly.

Let's say that the AGW is horse shit. Does that mean we continue to put known contaminants into the atmosphere?

Let's say that AGW is absolutely true, or even partly true. Should we stop putting stuff into the atmosphere that perpetuates the problems?

And again, who benefits from either set of actions?

rockpicker said...

I don't object to curbing the production of CO2, whether in response to "global warming" specifically, or just to do the right thing as a matter of general course.

But let's see the data policy is being determined over. Let's have free and open discussions, with peer review and no censorship of opposing views.

Let's, indeed, follow the money. I've read the emails, and they very clearly discuss fudging data, keeping opponents from publishing and refusing to share information. As a matter of fact, I have seen none of the "data" on which actions discussed at Copenhagen has been based published anywhere. In that respect, it's a bit like the healthcare bill. What the hell are we talking about, anyway?

Two things I have read repeatedly, though not oft cited in the mainstream press. All the planets have been heating up, not just earth. And, for about the last ten years or so, earth's mean temperature has remained stable, exhibiting no rise in temperature.

Meanwhile, sunspot activity appears to remain at much lower than normal levels, and has been pointed to by some to be the root cause of this winter's severity.

Anonymous said...

From Belgium

My, I feel a long comment coming on!

Firstly, I saw the docu that was put up and I felt that for probably the first time I can remember, Brasscheck TV had let itself down. To be strictly accurate, I saw the first eight minute segment of it and by then I had had enough. Although I agree with the overall thrust of what they were trying to do, the film was more about Jessie Ventura than about the issue it was supposed to be investigating. In other words the presentation was given greater prominence than the content. For me, it was pure Hollywood formula stuff with one strong anchor character and his supporting entourage. It reminded me of Kojak; Without a Trace; Cold Case; House MD etc (Although I grudgingly like House) and God forbid, Esther Rantzen, which led to the whole issue being trivialised. There again if it will get Joe Six Pack talking about Global Warming on the way to the liquor store then who am I to say anything?

Murph is the one here who is standing against the crowd and it is good that such issues should be discussed in the round before we whip ourselves into a lynch mob mentality. Funnily enough there is ambivalence here since I both agree and disagree with many of his points at the same time. Let us take for instance, human impact on the planet. All actions, human or otherwise, have consequences. In cave man times there were relatively few of them and so the consequence of what they did was small in overall terms and nature could easily adjust. Now humans are swamping the planet and their consequences are far greater. We, as a species are making the air unfit to breathe but why are we getting hung up on CO2? What about all the soot; sulphur and oxides of nitrogen we seldom hear anything about, not to mention depleted uranium and a whole host of other nasties? What I don’t believe is that there is a direct relation between human spoiling of the atmosphere and any overall increase in world temperature. In my mind the causal connection is not made. Is there any evidence that carbon dioxide directly increases the wavelength of radiation from the sun and if so is it significant?

Anonymous said...

FB Pt 2

I don’t know whose data to believe or that certain data is necessarily bad; we all know that statistics can be found to prove anything you want to find. What we have to be careful of is that we don’t over extrapolate local data. If for instance if it was found that the temperature of the Humboldt Current is increasing (I just made that up) then maybe the Gulf Stream is cooling. And yes we have been keeping scientific measurements for fifty or so years but is this a big enough sample on which to draw cast iron conclusions? Fifty thousand would be better but I will admit that we can’t get to fifty thousand without first getting to fifty. Personally I don’t know how to interpret ice core data, one person can not be an expert on everything Those who can, tell us that there were times when the Earth has been hotter that it is now and there were times when it has been colder than it is now; there were times when there has been more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere than now and times when there was less and they have not always been in sync. It would seem from this that increasing carbon dioxide and overall warming of the planet is a coincidence of our times.

At first it was difficult to decide who would actually benefit from AGW. At the time of the first Kyoto meetings it appeared to be anti big business albeit with high costs of emissions reductions and little in returns for the business concerned. As expected nothing was enforced, just good fellowship with arbitrary targets. Now with carbon trading it is clearer where the benefits lie. Big business doesn’t actually have to do anything to clean its act up so long as the overall situation does not get worse. The system has apparent fairness to appease the naive but do you really think those who are king of their particular hill will surrender their advantage to lend a hand to struggling up comers. Will du Pont sponsor millions of start up bee-hive enterprises? Well maybe they will but it will be the first time in the history of mankind it will have happened. The oil companies are the obvious beneficiaries of the anti AGW position. They can go on supplying the carbon that results in carbon emissions with impunity.

The AGW argument seems to be promoted by the Anglo American societies, particularly the Pilgrims or their even more clandestine offshoots. They have set up the International Protocol on Climate Change (IPCC) with their supposed 2500 climate experts. When they couldn’t find 2500 people to agree on anything to do with climate, the organisers padded the numbers out with people who like to attend meetings. I don’t know if the oil companies have an active roll in the argument or not but so far as I can tell, the anti camp doesn’t appear to be that well organised at all.

At least most of us here can agree on good ol Al Gore. The purpose of documentaries is to inform a wider section of the public on some aspect of life which interests the film maker. If there wasn’t a point of view then there would be nothing to say. It is for the recipient to decide if the information is based in fact or if there is an element of propaganda and where this begins and ends. What seems to be awry with the whole GW affair is that the Precautionary Principle has been jettisoned in the rightness of each side’s arguments. Why can we not genuinely reduce emissions just because we want the atmosphere to be cleaner and not link it to spurious arguments of Global Warming?

rockpicker said...

Who knows anything about Maurice Strong? In Jesse's show, the claim is made that Maurice Strong is the head guy of the global environmental movement, and has been for twenty-five years, serving on various UN panels in many capacities. Yet, apparently, he is also a multi-billionaire industrialist ex-pat Canadian who finds Red China to be a safer bet for the foreseeable future, at least as far as domestic living arrangements, so who is this guy?

What I hear is that he's made his money on commodities, specifically oil, and that he's bigtime buds with Edmund d'Rothschild. If that isn't a red flag for healthy skeptics, then I suggest the AGW movement is an army of naive lemmings lead by a handful of skilled manipulators with very secret agendas.

How could anyone in their right minds trust industrialists and central bankers to do the right thing for humanity? These are the rotten motherfuckers who brought us usery, fractional reserve banking, world wars, (during which they lent funds to both sides, and later too, to clean up the mess.) They hired the likes of Edward Bernays to instruct big business how to use the vulnerabilities of the human phsyche against men for profit, and in so doing they convinced us to smoke cigarrettes, accept toxins,(fluoride)in our drinking water and in our food, (aspartame, frankenfoods.)

Quite clearly, these folks constitute "the enemy." Anything they want me to do is suspect, and a solid connection between the PTB, (which is what we're talking about here), and the AGW movement will prove to be a wooden spike in the movement's heart, eventually.

Someone representing power and money commissioned the Georgia Guidestones, and they stand there in Elberton for a damned bad reason.


-wv--actursi

rockpicker said...

"In the end, science offers us the only way out of politics."

- Wallace Thornhill

Thanks, Paluka



wv--deall (for reall)

rockpicker said...

Oops! The above quote was not uttered by Wallace Thornhill, but is attributed to Michael Crichton. Sorry.

-rp

Anonymous said...

murph... with all due respect my friend and apologies in advance if i misunderstood point 3 but isn't that to say truth doesn't matter in this because the end justifies the means? should we then disregard the scamming of it for what is clearly power, position, and money? do we really need potential consequence to determine the rightousness, sacredness, and wisdom of our actions in regard to relationship, partnership, and stewardship with one another and the home we share? thats like saying the only reason i'm not going to shoot you is because i might go to jail.

the truth or horse shit of AGW aside the fact remains that what is truely a legitimate issue that begs thorough examination has been hijacked and is being scammed. by all sides.. that fact is clear now. that and the truth or horse shit of it need to be examined seperatly.

as to the former the emails alone confirm a political flim flam agenda on the part of the proponents. i agree with you that the conservative right represents the majority of the opposition in the manistream. do they give a shit or could it be they've hijacked the issue as well to forward their own world view and political purpose? frankly, i seriously doubt the conservative right could give a rats ass one way or another. they demonstrate they are more interested in justifying man as master subject only to a punitive god and the arrogant claim that we have, by birthright into a country considered the perfect achievement of immortal, omnipotent heroes, the right to be the grandiose and narcissistic assholes we are!

and now, various private sectors along with BOTH sides and sustained by laws co-opted with govts and major NGO's, are engaged in stacking the deck in the form of carbon credits. this is presented to the global masses as their way to mitigate a problem that hasn't even been proven to be a problem but is highly likely to have little effect toward that end if it were, indeed, a legitimate problem. instead it will be the next modus operandi insuring the rich get richer, the poor get poorer, the powerful get more powerful while we continue to poison our home lawfully! do we have any reason to believe the likes of goldman sucks and freeport-mcmoran actually give a fuck?

as to the latter, i believe the analysis forwarded in the link i provided supported by links to data establishes legitimate question to seriously consider overuling the conclusions forwarded. its a no-brainer that CO2 levels are increasing. its also a no-brainer that man is causal to that to some extent. this begs 2 questions: to what measurable extent being one but more importantly, what impact does the cumulative increase have on the planet's ability and, for that matter life itself, to survive?

the bottom line is we can't say its horse shit anymore than we can prove the truth of it. to the best of all knowledge this planet has never been tested to support nearly as many people as currently walk it and the collective impact on it and its supporting atmosphere. that fact alone overules the claims and conclusions that are being made. add to that the fact that we simply do not understand the fundamentals of how U, and thus this planet, operates and interacts. this ignorance however does not then sustain the argument to therefore disregard our actions that we know to be toxic. specifically, all the crap we do just to get that much CO2, etc pumping into the air. those activities in tandem with pervasive use of DU and unabated population explosion could very well seal our fate.

we should dismiss all this as frivolous in benefit of.... WHAT?? ... p

Anonymous said...

i wrote and posted the above and then read SATS fine analysis and views which i mostly agree with. taking opposition could be construed as support for the likes of big oil, etc. that is the last thing i wish to come of my own analysis and criticism. indeed, a part of what has now happened is that the question has become a diversion pointed out eloquently by SATS followed by what ought to be the real question, namely... "What seems to be awry with the whole GW affair is that the Precautionary Principle has been jettisoned in the rightness of each side’s arguments. Why can we not genuinely reduce emissions just because we want the atmosphere to be cleaner and not link it to spurious arguments of Global Warming?"

RP...

1... i'm afraid i can't add anything toward the strong man you likely don't already know. wolf in sheeps clothing?

2... your welcome

... p wv... unati

rockpicker said...

Thornhill's piece is exceptional. I recommend all read it, as it goes well beyond the AGW debate in examining the pros and cons of the peer-review process. And, he brings up another not so small matter. That being, we can't really understand global climate mechanics without a fundamental understanding of our solar system's mechanics. And, of course, he explains why our present understanding of how the solar system works is totally erroneous. Excellent read.

And thanks to Murph, for playing the devil's advocate and keeping this going.

freeacre said...

Thank you Belgium (SATS), Rockpicker, and p (Palooka), and Murph for taking the time to share your thoughts so cogently. It's very complicated and the politics and economic factors are so convoluted that, to me, it's practically stupefying. And then, by the time you do end up figuring it out, another several million people will have been born, making everything worse in any case.
Murph heats the workshop with a woodstove. So, we're putting carbon into the air. And everybody has that is a member of an indigenous tribe throughout time and it's been no real problem. Until industrialization and commercial oil production. Then the population hocky-sticked, and now everything is dying. The air is connected to the water and the land. There's really only one big problem - us. Going on nine billion of us. Until we get rid of the lump in the python, we're fucked. Whether we fry, choke, drown, starve. or die of pestilence or war, there's no getting around the consequences of our malignant numbers.... and NOBODY seems to be willing to deal with the one thing that matters the most.
Well, maybe they are... let's see if we can get through this month without any nukes going off ... although bio-warfare would make more sense, since it wouldn't wreck the real estate.

RAS said...

Ok, I feel a rant coming on, so no one take it personal.

About climate change: Do you really think that dumping millions of tons of CO2 and methane out of tailpipes every single day is a good thing? Or that it at least has no effect on the atmosphere? Bullshit.

Climate change is real, and it is dangerous. Does it have other factors besides human involvement? Yes, but we are the primary cause.

Has it been co-opted for political purposes? Yes, just as the entire environmental movement has been.
Is Al Gore an ass and his documentary full of propaganda? Yes.

Does any of that negate what we are doing to the planet, or that we need to stop it? No. Find the real data, and stop listening to all the fearmongers and conspiracy theorists on all sides. And for God's sake, be sure you understand the difference between weather and climate or no one with any knowledge is going to take you seriously.

Also remember that climate change is only symptom of the terminal disease that afflicts our culture: industrial civilization. The other symptoms are water depletion, soil depletion, etc.

rockpicker said...

http://www.thunderbolts.info/
thunderblogs/thornhill.htm

I don't disagree that the climate appears to be wacked.

I also don't think western developed nations need to surrender their national sovereignty, or voluntarily
pauperize themselves, in order to reduce global carbon output.

Then there is the claim from those who follow the research that ALL THE PLANETS HAVE BEEN WARMING in the last thirty years, or so, AND, EARTH'S CURRENT NASTY WEATHER SEEMS TIED TO AN EXTENDED SOLAR MINIMUM.

Obama just signed an executive order allowing Interpol to set up camp inside the U.S. I have to think this is part of how a nation surrenders.

Before you get too excited about "fact" of global warming, read Wallace Thornhill's piece. Here is that link again.

http://www.thunderbolts.info/
thunderblogs/thornhill.htm

wv- ressessi

Anonymous said...

ras... no offense taken on my end. i agree with most of what you say there. The exception i take is with the claim that "we are the primary cause."

why?

because this single stmt has done more to poison the air around what is truely a very serious matter than we could afford!! we've shot ourselves in the foot with it. maybe in the heart. what we need to understand here is that when we make that claim we better be able to back it up. and the fact is we can't. whats that lead to? it leads to conclusions that everything else is bullshit too. iow, the entire environmental movement has been set back by it. I know, the conclusion DOES NOT FOLLOW. but it is what happens. hell, we can see this leaning in that direction in our little venture into discussion of the matter right here around the fire. and we're all pretty much on the same page. iow, being for one thing is construed as being
against its opposite and vice versa. first graders know better but we've somehow grown out of that elementary wisdom.

energetically, metaphysically, this dynamic that has happened is called reversal. that is, energy going back on itself. this is assuming that out on the leading edge of it and mixed within it there is good intent. despite evidence now to the contrary i believe that motive was there. and still is held so by many of us who realize we are killing ourselves and our home. prob is our experts went all-in on a bluff and got called. whats more, we backed them. we went all-in with them when we bought the claim. the opponents didn't have to do a damn thing. all they had to do was wait for the proponents to fuck themselves. have we? boy howdy!!

the bottom line is we simply did not need to make this claim. when it was made by proclaimed experts and well-meaners and then we, as the concerned, bought into it as the be-all-end-all we set ourselves up for this reversal. i believe we stood a much greater chance of educating, informing, mitigating, changing had we not hung our success on it. we have plenty of evidence we can back up. so why did we make it? could it have been out of desperation? probably. and what's now worse is that experts and their salesmen, like gore for example, are being exposed as having scammed the issue.

now that we're all-in and been called what do we do now? ...p

rockpicker said...

we do not allow science to be pushed, any further, in the direction of religion.

rockpicker said...

excerpt from:

Obama and the Global Police: More Friendly Fascism?
By John W. Whitehead
1/8/2010


"But when you compile all the changes, the amended text of the Executive Order reads:

Property and assets of international organizations, wherever located and by whomsoever held, shall be immune from search, unless such immunity be expressly waived, and from confiscation. The archives of international organizations shall be inviolable.

The key here is the word "inviolable," which means that Interpol assets, records and other property are no longer subject to the search and seizure provisions of the Fourth Amendment, nor are they subject to public scrutiny under the Freedom of Information Act.

It should come as little surprise that when the White House issued the amended executive order on December 17, 2009, it issued no press releases and thus generated little in the way of media attention. It must be said, however, that had George W. Bush attempted to slip something like this through a week before Christmas, he would have and should have been soundly lambasted by the media.

Frankly, we should be hearing more about Obama's EO 12425--from the White House, from Congress, from the media. In fact, Congress should be holding hearings on the ramifications of allowing Interpol to operate with complete autonomy outside the strictures of the Constitution and above the rule of law in this country."

full article here:

http://www.rutherford.org/articles_db/commentary.asp?record_id=630

Why was this action necessary?

Anonymous said...

Why was this action necessary?

palooka say they will tell you that the global policio is doing us a great big fat favor as hot on the trail of big bad u no hoo's and thus should not be annoyed by or saddled with such petty threats.

oh my! the wv arrives appropo once again... anozygie! amazing how syncronicious they can be!!

freeacre said...

I just ordered the Thunderbolts DVD, "Symbols of an Alien Sky," Rockpicker. Looks like a good thing to watch while attempting to deal with the current disaster scenarios. This date,01-11-10, seems like one that the PTB who are into numerology might find significant. Friggin' New Moon on Friday (read that possible attack on Iran), the opening of the Olympics, the closing of the Canadian parliament for the duration, the interpol thing, the earthquake off the coast of Eureka (where my grandsons live),etc. etc. has got me wired. Damn! Where's my fluoride?

rockpicker said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBucZGaRajU&NR=1

Hotspringswizard said...

Many good thoughts in this:

http://carolynbaker.net/site/content/view/1464/1/

CAROLYN BAKER AND KEITH FARNISH DIALOG ABOUT THE GREAT TRANSITION

A few months ago, I struck up an online friendship with the acclaimed author and academic Carolyn Baker. It was clear that we were both writing about similar things, but I didn’t realise quite how similar until I had the fortunate opportunity to review her latest book, Sacred Demise: Walking the Spiritual Path of Industrial Civilization's Collapse. This fine text, and her generous appreciation of my work, was the catalyst for the ongoing dialogue that this article presents............

Anonymous said...

From Belgium

Rp One of the proposals in the (EU) Lisbon Treaty was that the Interpol and (US) DHS computers would be linked – just to catch the bad guys of course. If crime is international then it follows that we sure do need to be internationally vigilant for the benefit of us all. I am certain that it hasn’t got past you that there are light years of difference between being internationally vigilant and being multinationally vigilant :-)

RAS, you call them as you see them. I have set my position out above on this one and I am not going to dive back in.
Lots of us have been guilty of providing non sequitur logic steps, hopefully unintentionally and accepting such without substantiation. With the amount of reading most of us do it is not possible to pin down every statement made without restricting your subject matter and there is always the hope that genuine peer review has kicked in somewhere along the line. Of course this is not always the case and this leaves the door ajar for propaganda, spin or outright deception.
A documentary came out a little time after 9/11 and the presenter started by asking the viewer to be indulgent whilst he played a little game with us. The game was word association – he would say a word and we had to say the first word that came into our head. OK; ready – the word is ‘Conspiracy’ – pause “I’m guessing you all said ‘Theory’”. Well he caught me out with it. His point was that whilst the waters were muddied on so many issues of the day with so many conflicting ‘facts’, nobody could prove anything with any degree of certainty and the perps could sit back and play any bit of confusion off with any other bit of confusion. And that’s why nearly every major issue remains a theory. It all comes down to thorough research and getting as near to certainties as is possible. Sometimes we can’t and in those cases all you can say is “This is my opinion”, “This is how I see it”.

Sometimes we learn things as we go along; things that can’t be proved and all we can do is fall on one side of the equation or the other based on the balance of probabilities. Are there green lizard men from the Pleiades incarcerated in the lowest levels of deep underground military bases? Well we make up our mind and say that’s our opinion because without seeing for ourselves or listening to a number of independent observers, that’s all we have got.

Anonymous said...

FB pt 2

Over the past months I have been questioning some of the basic assumptions that we have learned over the last years. I am not vacillating but just trying to side step a potential peripatetic moment somewhere down the line. It is a bit like a priest questioning the existence of God. For instance we all know that there are twelve bloodline families that control the world. How do we know? Because we have been told so. Ok then, what are their family names? Well there are the Rothschild’s; the Schiff’s; the Warburg’s; the Vanderbilt’s – then there are the um – Are the Rockefeller’s in the twelve or not - um? You get the picture. If we can’t name them then how do we know there are twelve, do any of them exist as part of a group? It is the same story with the 300 international bankers who all know each other by name but we don’t know their names. Are they for real; are they urban legend or are they deflection? If I can’t call it then I have been demoting some common knowledge certainties into pending boxes to try and take a more balanced view.

The thing that brought this about is that I came across a site ** just before Christmas which contains a mere handful of articles. The author has researched some of the world’s most secret societies and clubs. Some are genuinely clandestine and some are semi open but with embedded covert shadowy background organisations. Most of these articles are mini e-books which open as a single html page. The articles end when the scroll bar is halfway down the page and the bottom half is taken up with references so that for nearly every line of text there is a source. This is the way research should be done. Myths are dispelled and many unknown facts are brought to light. He claims that these few articles took him five years part time to put together but when you see the detail you are going to know why. I keep the site in a closed tab and am still working my way through it as time allows. If you do dip your toe in I am certain you will be anti social for at least a week. This brings us full circle to rp’s question of what is known about Maurice Strong. I will give you the link to the home page and also to the article which up to now I think has the most references to him and his (cohorts) associates.

** I wrote the above comment yesterday and left it hanging because the site I wanted to link to was down. It has remained down for a day now. I sincerely hope that it is some sort of maintenance and that nothing unfortunate has happened to the author. I would recommend that those interested periodically try to access the site ISGP or the Institute for the Study of Globalisation and Covert Politics. Fortunately I have the site backed up in Word format so if anybody wants a copy then let me know and I will send it as an e-mail attachment (3.6MB)

SATS

rockpicker said...

Belgium, I'll try to find that website and let you know if I have difficulty. I'm quite interested in this line of research.

Steve Quayle's site yesterday published an article in which there is a link to an epistle meant to expose details of a secret society based in Australia. Supposedly the piece is brought to light posthumously by an executor of the man's estate. Here's the link.

http://www.henrymakow.com/australian_satanist_exposes_wo.html

Also, brasscheck has posted a short video describing an experiment which reveals interesting implications involving peer pressure and denial.

http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/770.html

Hotspringswizard said...

In reference to Belgium's most recent thoughts, I interpret my life experience, my perceptions of it, in terms of my opinion of probabilities and not in ascribing absolutes to my observations.

Why? Because the universe may be infinite ( as far as I perceive it ), which means it could be endless on the smaller and larger scale. We only experience the characteristics ( in our small bubble of exposure )through the medium of the form we take, our particular sensory construct.

We speak of what we know, what is truth, what is real and most of humanity gives various absolute qualities to these ideas they hold. But what do our ideas of what is mean to some other complex construct of material form or otherwise manifestation of being that is somewhere in the infinity that surrounds us, or is even within us. Its world and ours could surely ( within the realm of possibilities ) have no commonality whatsoever.

So this I think brings to mind the idea that we only " know " things within the myriad parameters that human thought gives creedance too. Is there an ultimate truth to all things which could be used to really gauge the validity of the considerations of the vast array of ideas held by humanity? It appears to me that a realistically usable concept like that is un-attainable.

So along with my use of probabilities to describe my experience, patterns are indespensible to making practical sense of what I observe. So in my attempts to understand whats going on in these quickly changing times, I'm always looking for consistency and patterns in the information I consider.

So when we describe our thoughts, feelings, ideas about what is, we utilize various degrees of " evidence " to support our contention. Anything we cite can always be put to question, in regards to its validity. Any form of information could be challenged with realistically endless inquiries of its premisis.

So each will " decide " what parameters they will " choose " to use in deciphering the mysteries of life, the unknowns. But to my mind it all just represents unique sets of mental journeys through intricate landscapes of mental experience, and these ephemeral musings we hold are mere vapors emanating from our form, fleeting beyond measure in regard to the infinity of time. And what of the most pervasive belief system of humanity, of a scope beyond all religions, that being the idea that we have free will? Just another un-answered question in a great sea of wonderings :-)

rockpicker said...

Hotspringswizard,
If you haven't seen this yet, you might be interested in this interview with David Icke.

http://freedomcentral.info/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=42&Itemid=73

Belgium, The ISGP site won't come up for me. I did manage to find
an article on the Dutroux Affair II. Apparently, there are sites peripheral to the ISGP site which offer some of the data.

wv- nosames

rockpicker said...

freeacre,

How preceint, that mention of 01-11-10! You called it, girl!

http://www.stevequayle.com/News.alert/08_Hawk/100112.Obama.EO.html

Anonymous said...

From Belgium

Hi HSW, Patterns are a great way of seeing if something is out of kilter. Those who know more about Chaos theory than I do, say that seemingly random events can be broken down into regular patterns and much can be learned about the way certain patterns combine or not. Taking a detached overview is a way of observing how the parts of the bigger picture combine together. In order to interpret this we must necessarily ask questions and when the answers to these questions are deliberately misleading so that others can follow their particular agenda to our disadvantage then that is when red flags should be raised. We therefore need to chip away at the foundations of seemingly impenetrable walls to expose what is behind them.

At a time when the US is amassing another armada near the Gulf, Brasscheck TV has a piece up today about a US film maker who went to Iran to observe the axis of evil on the streets and in the homes of the people of Tehran and the small villages in the countryside. He found that because of or in spite of their form of government, they are a very happy and contented people. The very last thing they want is to be liberated from the yolk of their situation. This is just a small item of exposed misdirection which is topical today but is typical of what my comment was about.

Rp, did you get my e mail?

rockpicker said...

Belgium, Yes, indeed, Thank you. I at first did not notice all the files you included. Thanks for all the effort.

I saw the piece on Iran. Last night, on the Jeff Rense radio show, he was rebroadcasting an interview with Webster Tarpley, from last week. Tarpley stated, unequivocally, there would be no US bomb attack on Iran, as long as signs indicate civil unrest is ongoing. He said, the plan is not to take the US to war with Iran, but to get Iran to go to war with Russia.

Anonymous said...

SATS...


both p and B stated a case
p is off the walls at bell south dot net
therefore, B made the case much better than p

while the conclusion may not follow it is most certainly true. send the file, thx

: - )


wv... joyal

Anonymous said...

opps... these lawbooks have begun to muddle the mind. or is it the politics? or that sandburg fella? therefore i forgot to sign my name.

a. lincoln

rockpicker said...

" ek skews me, but did you say
eh, Blinkin?

Hotspringswizard said...

Rockpicker, I tried that address you suggested but since at our house we ony have slow speed phone modem those videos of David Icke would be to time consuming to download. I did google his name and read some about him. Seems like he would be an interesting person to talk to.

Maybe you referenced him to me because of my mentioning about alternative forms of beings. I've never met a reptilian alien shapshifter like Icke speaks of :-)

In my comment I was merely suggesting that in the realm of possibilities regarding an apparently infinite universe there could be lots of other kinds of beings which could be differant from us in form and manner beyond anything we can comprehend.

The cosmos even at the infinitely primitive level we comprehend it is full of bizarre phenomenon and relationships that throw into kilter the very base conclusions by which we assess our experiences.

So the most honest aproach I can see to make reasonable assessments is to decipher patterns and think of the observations of them in terms of probabilities. Since I cannot know all things then it seems to me that I cannot ascribe a 0 or 100 percent probability to anything because to do so would mean you were capable of knowing all of the infinte possibilities of things, say like one would think of the capabilities of a God.

This I feel is the most truthful basis from which to develop a basic architecture of understanding. But this structure of " knowing " is always subject to change because new realizations will come along and ultimately create the need for alterations.
It is a journey with no destination.

But for so much of humanity their minds are full cups of set ideas and absolutes that they have " created ", like mental castles built on sand. Akin to the acceptance of the notion that we have free will. Whole belief systems are built up around this concept, when its base premise is a thing of " faith " by my reckoning.

Its all so very fascinating, exploring the deeper meaning of things with always something new to consider :-)

freeacre said...

Just for the record, Henry Makow is way over the top for me. All satanic mumbo-jumbo sounds like "bunk" to me. Naturally, I will be very bummed if it turns out to be true..

Anonymous said...

From Belgium

HSW, as was stated earlier we are all on the same page and following closely parallel paths. You are looking at things from a greater distance where you see more overall interlinking connections but in less detail whereas I was zooming in a bit to see how the nuts and bolts connect together. Indeed ‘faith’ is the belief in something which cannot be proved but in order to test this faith I have been putting unfounded beliefs into a pending box until the foreman of the jury delivers his verdict. I second your very last paragraph.

Rp IMHO Tarpley’s analysis is a flying turkey. I will agree that it is in the US’s interest to break up the SCO but shaking spears around the Gulf ain’t going to do it, the Iranians are too savvy for that. And I did notice the Unless part of his comment.

p. death to a Lincoln :-) I guess 6.02 & 6.17 were both you. You got it!

vw traphist - some of the best beer in Belgium is made by them.

Hotspringswizard said...

Thanks for your thoughts Belgium. There are many ways to look at all of these things we consider about our life experience.

In all of what I've wrote recently I want to make clear that I'm not meaning that we should not do the best we can to interpret that which is around us, and in this thought I'm not refering to anything you wrote to me Belgium
:-) We are always working on weeding out the bad info from the good so to speak, so that we may understand more clearly what we experience.

I am appreciative that you are all such a considerate bunch of folks regarding others postings of their thoughts. This certainly provides a healthy climate for our learning this or that from eachother :-)

willson said...

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