Saturday, August 25, 2012

(photo credit Wikipedia)

A Storm is Coming....



Murph and I don’t watch a lot of television, as you know. A lot of us at the Campfire don’t. But, I gotta admit that once in awhile some series comes along and we rent it from Netflix. We really liked “Deadwood,” for instance. And, “Rome,” “’The Sopranos, and “Fringe.” Getting them from Netflix, we can watch them the way I promised people could watch them, with no commercials, when one of my first jobs was to sell cable TV. That was the pitch. You pay a small monthly fee, but you get to see everything without commercials. It was a good idea that lasted about five minutes. It got their foot in the door. Now, we pay a large fee and most of the content is commercials. Somehow, they got us to pay for the commercials as well as the propaganda, in order to watch programs that used to be free. It’s kinda like having to get your own switch to be beaten with. But, I digress…

Once again, though, I’m hooked on a show – “The Sons of Anarchy.” Since we get everything late, you may have seen it. It is a lot like “The Sopranos,” but it revolves around a West Coast Biker gang family rather than an East Coast Italian Mob Family. The characters are multifaceted and the plot lines are intricate and very often violent. The characters in the extended “family” are strong, ruthless, sociopathic, and oddly likeable and vulnerable at times. There is a rich texture of ethnicity and a strong code to live by. How they express their individuality within the confines of the shared values of the group is interesting. The fact that they all share a bond more important than anything else is fundamental to both the Sopranos and the Sons. They are more than a crime syndicate. They are an extended family as well, albeit sick and dysfunctional.

I ask myself “why?” Both of these organizations grow from a culture that is old and corrupt. Post collapse, as it were. Sicily, apparently, has been run by different warlords, or Godfathers, for generations, once the Roman Empire disintegrated. The Sons of Anarchy commit horrid crimes with little regard for the greater cultures sense of decency or decorum. Gun-running, dope-dealing, sexual exploitation, and other malfeasances are primary ways to generate outlaw income. Both are kept in power by the collusion of the state, the banks, the media, the politicians. All corrupted and bought off.

That’s the part that I find myself dwelling upon. What happens to a human being when the ideals of the culture are found to be corrupt? When the ones in charge – church or government, police, banks, companies, et al, are generally known to be criminals and thieves? To whom do you turn to for help and support?

Family, tribe, mob or gang.

In a morally collapsed culture, one chooses to either be a straight, compliant citizen ruled and taken advantage of by the corrupt cabal, or oppose them and become an outlaw resistor. Of course, many succumb to the individualized pressures and abuse coursing through their childhoods and lives. Addiction, incarceration, tissue damage and death are results from bad choices in damaging circumstances.

Is this where we are headed when the general population gets hip to the fact that pretty much everything that we have been taught about ourselves and our nation is false? That we’ve been suckered and used, poisoned, and swindled by the very ones who command the most respect, conduct the world’s business, make the most money, lead the church denominations, make the laws, and have sworn to protect us. I guess it depends on our own personal experience.

Not all of us are bikers or importers of olive oil.

I don’t know if anyone as yet has come up with a series about outlaw mall rats or guerrilla farmers. Just think, we might be on the verge of something new in this Kali Yuga age of deterioration, war, fear, and despair. New to us, anyway.

It ain’t going to be easy. We are going to have to be able to hold our own in the mix of the differing locals vying for control, I would imagine. An example is our struggle against the U.N.’s Agenda 21. Then there are those pesky drug cartels, bikers, Nazis, and minions. But, what if, in small towns, or even apartment complexes all over the place, we reached out to each other and declared peace amongst ourselves? What if we stopped using plastic? What if we got together a code to live by that actually did provide support and protection as well as equality, fairness and freedom? What if these parentless mall mutants tweeted or twittered themselves into a cohesive group and took over shuttered malls, and made the best of a difficult situation?

Despite cosmic events, earth changes, dynasties, wars, pestilence, greed and idiocy, life seems to go on. Until it doesn’t. We also have courage, friendship, knowledge, joy, loyalty, trust and love. Those have been constants as well, in many forms. That is what has gotten us through the hard times in the past, and no doubt will again.

I gotta feeling that the ruling class would like nothing better than to quell a “revolution” with some serious shock and awe. Even if they have to make up the combatants themselves, like these so-called “Black Panthers” that supposedly want to kill white people. Or, suddenly, “the anarchists” who are stalking the Republican convention and probably hard at work setting up IED devises to blow up innocent civilians like some domestic Taliban. Great! At the slightest outbreak of protest or civil disobedience (false flag or not), they can come at us with a dizzying assortment of para-military hardware and advanced and enhanced weaponry guaranteed to keep us in place (while making money on it all as well).

What I would wager they really do not want is to have the citizenry reject the whole paradigm. Shun them. Turn off the TV during the conventions. Don’t purchase anything advertised on the tube. Don’t send them money. Take your money out of the banks and the markets. Don’t vote for anyone in Congress who voted for the bank bailouts. Cancel your newspaper. Don’t use your cell phone during the conventions. Laugh at them. Make other plans.

Protest. But protest in a way that matters and won’t get you clubbed or used as an excuse to increase police and paramilitary brutality. We need to flex our financial muscles. If there is one thing they have taught us, it is that “money talks.” We need to speak to them in their own language.

We could say, “We are the many. You are the few.”

Perhaps humankind is not really a herd. Maybe it’s a pack.


darius said...

I wish I believed it was as easy as "protest".

Anonymous said...

15the larger protest is just around the motherfucking corner , the roses smell good don't they?..
have bat in hand, come on brothers and sisters, step up to the goddam plate, lets rock!!!!
its our turn and by the gods we will make a difference, fuck the zombies that pretend life...,
because we were formed out of life itself...and are beautifully sacred ...
your words are good m&f...
let them hang in the air we breathe.... for we are the same..


freeacre said...

Darius, I know it's not easy - it's hard and it's scary to do anything that might actually make a difference. I'm just trying to caution against protesting in ways that might be playing into their hands. If you've got other ideas, I'm all ears.
We recently watched a video called "Cool It" that has a real different take on climate change, for instance. The SOB's in charge might be evil, but unfortunately they aren't stupid. They pretty much have it all locked up. The only thing I can think of to do is to comply as little as possible with the whole consumer lifestyle they advocate.

Anonymous said...

Life is so rich, has so many treasures, we go to it with empty hearts; we do not know how to fill our hearts with the abundance of life. We are poor inwardly and when the riches are offered to us, we refuse. Love is a dangerous thing, it brings the only revolution that gives complete happiness. So few of us are capable of love, so few want love. We love on our own terms, making of love a marketable thing. We have the market mentality and love is not marketable, a give-and-take affair. It is a state of being in which all man's problems are resolved. We go to the well with a thimble and so life becomes a tawdry affair, puny and small. - Letters to a Young Friend,


Anonymous said...


That was an interesting post, there was lots to think about that I liked in this one. Did that sound like condemnation by feint praise? It sure wasn't meant to be. I will pick on a few things that occurred to me. First off this “In a morally collapsed culture, one chooses to either be a straight, compliant citizen ruled and taken advantage of by the corrupt cabal, or oppose them and become an outlaw resistor.” I thought what about a third option of sticking a finger up at the system and turning your back on it? But by the last paragraph I realised that was what the post was all about. Bring them down by ignoring them. That bit about an outlaw resistor, I guess you mean similar to the Charles Bronson character in Death Wish but on a bigger scale. That could work but it would have to be extremely small, tightly controlled and closed cell. Another point is what does 'morally collapsed' mean? It could be argued that those who became rich as a result of prostitution, drug running and circuses were just supplying a demand that was denied us by those who had our higher interests at heart. And we all know what happened to speakeasies. I guess that those who kill themselves with drugs are just weak shits in the face of peer control or at least that's how it starts out. The problem with just letting them get on with it is that it takes a whole army of highly trained sociologists and Councillors to get them out of the whole they choose to be in. For those who take the red pill and then realise it is not for them it is not that easy to get a supply of the blue ones.

Is there a real difference between commercials and propaganda? I think it is a difference of degree rather than kind. How do you persuade people to buy a brand of perfume or coffee when they can't experience over the TV? But if it didn't work they wouldn't do it.

If the Sopranos, the Sons and the Panthers one one side and the PTB on the other, all have strong groupings then I wonder why the hippies largely sold out. Maybe they weren't sociopathic enough. I guess you can't be that whilst you are advocating love. Does that tell us anything?

I have tried a few people out with the TV series Yes Minister and Yes Prime Minister and it doesn't go down well anywhere outside Britain where it is loved to bits. I will tell you of this little rejoinder between Hacker, the Prime Minister and Sir Humphrey Appelby, head of the Civil Service.
Hacker : “Humphrey, you are a complete moral bankrupt”.
Sir Humphrey: “Thank you Prime Minister, that is most kind”

Ah well, truth in jest.

I never made the connection before between the fall of Rome and the rise of the mob, that makes sense. Mind you there are two main mobs (not including the Triads etc), the Cosanostra and the Koshernostra. The first is more well known, the second is more powerful. It is the second that supposedly, JFK stuck a finger up to after they had helped him into office.

That Nazi who gunned down all those people on that Norwegian island has just been awarded 21 years, yet as Aaron Ruso observed our society is essentially already fascist. I guess this guys only crime was overtness.

So we come to the wait and see question. What happens after society as a whole has a peripatetic moment and how long will we have to wait to find out? Remember war is when we are told who the bad guy is. Insurrection is when we decide it for ourselves.

Hey Darius, seen this from Jesse Ventura?

Gotta say, I like what he does but 'being British' I don't like his sensational presentation style. The answer all comes back to Freeacre's ignore the bastards approach.

Anonymous said...

sats, my brother your good words are an invitation to consider the value of concepts within the region of actual and the fact that actual is no concept it is what is in front of us ain't it?
the mystery involves that something that reaches out and snares the student is that the mystery is no longer a mystery.
it is instead the wide opened awareness that comes with begging for solution out of desperation of life as tragic sacred ointments and no way to fulfill the illusion that what we wish for is simply that an illusion...

there is no way home. its a done deal , the only way i think is the nerve to step up and be willing to die for the sake of our children and grandchildren .

not one hair of my progeny will i allow to be picked...
so those that like to pick i say bring it on bitches.....
brothers and sisters this is time to make a stand..
i pray for peace but stand alone...



Anonymous said...

Just got 35 USGS alerts for Southern CA, in last hour, largest was 4.5 might have been a few larger....something is happening...OR the alert computer system has gone haywire. Felt a few earlier this a.m. but this is far about 40 alerts heading for the USGS map now to see what's going on. Love to all mrsp

freeacre said...

Hang on tight, mrs.p. Looks like you're getting multiple shocks, getting bigger. From - 5.2, 5.3.& 5.4 quakes where you are and a couple of 7.4's off of El Salvador! I bet Hot Springs Wizard and family are feeling it as well. Anybody else experiencing earthquakes, tropical storms or hurricanes? Was this a critical time on Geryl's list of sun-related incidents? I can't find my list. Rats. Might want to take a look at Dutchsince alerts.
I'm lighting a candle for you guys.

Anonymous said...

Way back when Mineapolis was gearing-up for mass protests at the DNC convention, I thought that a great strategy for those who might want to gather to protest would be -to NOT protest. As in, not showing up and let the cops in riot gear stand there with nothing to do. But then, they'd probably fly in a bunch of out of work actors to stand around and yell at the cops and those that got peppered would get a nice bonus. The garbage they pass off as "news" nowadays means it wouldn't make any difference if anyone showed up to protest at the conventions anyway. They'd just make up something and show some old footage.

I don't think the Murikan sheeple will turn off their TV -nor cancel their cable, stop eating McDonlds, stop buying iPods, 70 inch plasma screens or $169 sneakers. The sheeple are just.... sheeple. They WANT to be told what to do and what to think. Thinking requires WAY too much energy.

I have to go to the break room to punch the timeclock and I sometimes overhear the gossip. This gossip consists of office politics and celebrity/TV talk only. The are no wars, there is no recession, there is no NDAA, no drones, no nothing. Just Dancing with the Stars, CSI, Survivor, Idol, TomKatie, etc. I think these people will fight like hell to stay in The Matrix.

They will never unplug until it's too late.


Oh yeah.


Anonymous said...

its hot and the current forest fire of which i do know the location of has made it almost no see the mountains just a half mile to the west of town, sorta spooky really, i mean we have um every summer but this one just has to be close cause breathing says so... personally i love the smell of woodsmoke...reminds me of childhood on the farm i reckon ...

mrs p, i also light candle for you and hubby, i can only imagine how tough it must be with your house shaking, not so sure montana has it any better with wyomings style of hot springs so close by..
good luck to you and yours dear lady.


Anonymous said...

god this robot thingie really sucks the big one.
who makes up this shit anyway?

Anonymous said...

ramdu... yer stuff is always right on but this one is leaning heavy, heavy at the top of the right on pile. and i think yer dead right. people are people eh?

and oh yeah, the handle becomes you!

ms p... you ok girl?

mf... i hear ya man. i can't tell ya what the first letter is of the one i'm lookin at but i'm comin down to an "e" ... p

Anonymous said...


freeacre said...

GAAAAH! What did I do? I watched it! I caught the last of the Romney wife speech about what a great guy Romney is and then the Christy speech on how he is the son of his Italian immigrant mother and how great the American Dream is, with enough hard work and sacrifice, etc, etc. The whole thing could have been set in 1955 and it would have sounded the same. Why did I watch this?? It's like picking a scab, I guess...

Ron Paul delegates kicked to the curb, nothing about our ham-handed, imperialistic foreign policies, nano-second timed stock market trading that leaves the pedestrian investors in the dust, fracking for natural gas and oil that is polluting our water, lowering the water tables, and destabilizing the earth, the alarming rates of autism and illness of our children, the indebtedness of our students, the threat from Fukushima and depleted uranium, and on and on. Just more of the same "Ra Ra" America, we can be the Best again horseshit. I've got to dive into my copy of the latest Rolling Stone Magazine and counter all that with the story of Romney and Bain Capital by Matt Taibbi.

Camaleon, I've been thinking about what you wrote regarding love. One tragic aspect of the deterioration of our culture, it seems to me, is the loss of the sense of love-making. You almost never hear of it anymore. Now it's all about your sex life, not one's love life. The whole concept of sanctified lovemaking being a holy act devoted to God(ess)seems to be one big aspect lost of what used to hold this thing together and make life worth living. Replaced, it seems, by superficial sexuality which neither sustains the heart nor the soul, and leaves one to fill the void with things rather than love.

Our whole culture seems defiled as more and more become materialized and monetized.

Wacko World is in rare form. Good to hear from you p, montana, Belgium, and Ramdu. At least some of us aren't sheep.

I don't know what the hell this word verification thing is doing. I have to try multiple times to get anything posted. I'll try to change the damn thing. the shit is incomprehensible or I am going blind.21 enpeakce

Anonymous said...

You did WHAT, FA?! Are you mad? I bet you had to take a long hot/cold shower to clense yourself afterward, huh? A scene in "The Crying Game" comes to mind or the same scene parodying it in Ace Ventura.

The RNC Circle Jerk was on almost all of the 13 channels I have, too. Not that I'm going to watch it, but I wonder what the DNC Farting Contest will be like. How do you get all excited about someone who is pretty much Bush III, but with a nicer smile and sober children?

Where a killer asteroid when you need one?

Rand"u" was a typo, BTW. I was in a hurry to get it posted, I guess.
Later -


rockpicker said...

Ramdu; Too bad. You're stuck with it. The circle has spoken...

freeacre said...

lol... The opening scene in Ace Ventura has to be the most hilarious scene ever. Makes me laugh every time I think of it. Also, that scene where he asks, "Have I got something stuck in my teeth?" and he's got, like, an asparagus salad hanging out of his mouth. Ha!

Yup, Ramdu, I think you are stuck with it - at least until the asteroid hits. lol

Anonymous said...

Rats! I hate typos.

-Ramdu (poster formally known as Randy)

rockpicker said...

Aw, Ramdu, you're breaking my heart. Okay, you can have your handle back...

Two views:


Anonymous said...


Holland and Belgium have a really weird keyboard layout. Instead of qwerty, we have azerty. In that system Randy equates to Rqndy and Ramdu equates to Rq,du. Oh the fun of it all.

Quickly drawing a veil over that and changing the subject, has anybody any experience of preserving meat by salting. I thought it might be a better option than freezing in the event of power outages but I also thought it wouldn't taste as good. However it did work for seamen in the days of sail. I do remember having salted cod when I was a kid and that was okay. Any thoughts?

rockpicker said...

SATS; You are so on target with this query. I have a friend who may be able to answer some of these questions. I will ask her to reply. In the mean time, watch this...

Anonymous said...

Hi Gang, great post FA.

Been listening to Rosa Koire's interviews about her work (author "behind the green mask", about agenda 21). Did some checking around my county and local towns, all well integrated in this already.

I realised it puts us in a bit of a catch 22.

All our self sufficiency, self reliance, community building, permaculture plans etc. work right into the globalist agenda.

Do I unwittingly support it by default, or work against it, and therefore against the aims I've been trying to achieve?

I'm suddenly feeling trapped in the headlights! GD

murph said...


Preserving meats involves putting something on and in the meat that will not allow bacterial action. Salt is one, honey is another. The old technique from the East coast and south, making honey cured hams is famous.

Combined or used by itself, drying and smoking are the easiest.

murph said...


Yes, it is a catch 22 in some aspects. The thing to watch out for is the use of what is called the "Delphi" method of making public policy that is a big part of the agenda 21 implementation. For that matter, this technique of public manipulation is used wherever policy allows public input on an issue. The folks that run these public meetings are called "facilitators". In essence it restricts choices and discussions on other than the authorities agenda and goals. It is also used to restrict solutions for problems to those that the authorities approve of. On the surface, this technique appears to be efficient and gets business taken care of, especially when the public is upset over decisions proposed by some authority. In our area, we discovered that we have been "delphied" for the last 5 years by the county government and are currently being "delphied" by the DEQ. The technique is also used extensively by the educations departments in universities for teacher training on how to handle classrooms.

On the surface, when you go through the agenda 21 action items, most of them appear to be sound environmental policies. It's when you start examining the consequences of those actions on society that it becomes pretty sticky, especially when you tie it in with international goals for the NWO. Primarily, concerning the elimination of single family homes, concentration of population to "eco friendly" cities and flat out elimination of family country living. All in all, it sure appears to me that agenda 21 is a super smooth logically imperative tool for total population control and doing it with public support and under the explosive agenda of environmental preservation.

Heh, I feel a new post coming on

rockpicker said...

This warning from Steve Quayle's alerts today:

Ominous warning from V

As western banking has fallen and the continued sinking of the Anglo American financial slave system is being played out in what I call plebian theater with characters the likes of Soros and Rothschild begin to make public declarations on the fall of a currency (Euro) that they have months ago moved out of. I thought it was prudent for me to outlay the post collapse world that many of you will emerge in.

First and foremost cash is dead. The new means of exchange will be all digital. As I write this the framework and outlays are already in place that will have all digital transfers/transactions occurring on the highest speed data networks. This will be supported by the new smart chipped credit and debit cards as well as those smartphones that many of you are fond of. The smartphone payment system will be called NFC (Near Field Communication). These systems will conjugate into a thorough algorithmic predictable digital database that will allow the banks, corporations and governments to have a clear understanding of who you are. In the monetary world you are what you BUY us bankers can tell the very person and character you are by the very things you purchase. This means it will not simply be your credit score that a bank will look at before giving you a loan. How about a character score to see if you're an enemy of the state? Or responsibility quotient to see if your a frivolous spender? The smartcard/NFC system will coincide with internet ID that we are working on as well. Meaning you will not be able to get online without identifying yourself, your web logons will be tracked and will be looked at along side your purchases, all digitally controlled and maintained.

I fear that this system that is already birthing out before us will eventually evolve into some sort of implantable chip. You see these are all moves for the sake of ubiquitous computing and what transhumists and futurists call singularity. These two movements or fields of thought are funded and fueled by the eltes of banking. Your freedoms will be conditional and your privacy non existent. Long ago you Americans and much of the western populations have become the human collateral and as your economies are being killed off by design you will emerge as the new serfs on the new plantation we call Earth.

There are no further warnings that I can give any of you that I have not said already. If you still have money on paper your a fool of fools. If your still sitting around wondering the "if" and not preparing for the "WHEN" then you are a bigger fool. What more signs can you seek? The accounts are be swept, metals are being suppressed even at $1650 plus, war is in the air, your country is about to declare martial law, many of the elites have left or have emergency relocation plans already activated. I myself am hunkered down. Prepare, if you have read my alerts from the beginning you will see a clear progression of events that is playing out right before your eyes. You would see the handwriting on the wall that Steve Quayle has been warning you about for years. Now I too am warning YOU.

Ignore the main stream media, ignore the talking head pundits, do not listen to those who say all is well and the markets will come back. We HAVE entered into the final phase before collapse the only sign to watch is the final financial solution. The only thing you can do is prepare, watch and wait. I promise you it won't be long now.


Anonymous said...


Here are some easy articles on how to preserve fish and meat with salt.

I once saw TV Chef Jamie Oliver smoking salmon in the kitchen. It was so simple I tried it just for fun and it worked.
Get a biscuit tin about a foot square and punch lots of holes in the lid with a small nail. Line the bottom of the tin with fine wood shavings, the sort you can get from the pet store to put on the bottom of a hamsters cage. Set a metal stand in the tin to separate the meat / fish from the wood, A wire cake cooling rack or tea pot stand will do. Put the food on the metal rack, place the lid on the tin and put the whole tin on a small to medium gas burner for 10 or 20 minutes. Be aware that the smoke that comes off is going to pong and also be aware that it may set your smoke alarm off if the heat is too high. It is said that hickory is the best wood to use but in fact anything will do. As I said, I did try this, only once and it did work. This was just to impart flavour and I don't really know if or how long the food would be preserved.

Here is another page full of interesting links related to honey and other preservatives.

murph said...

Don't you find it interesting that smoking meat to preserve it is the same thing I do to tan hides?

freeacre said...

"All our self sufficiency, self reliance, community building, permaculture plans etc. work right into the globalist agenda."

No, GD, not really. The WORDS "sustainability" "smart growth", etc. are used, but the intent is different. That's what is so damnable. Of course, it would be good to group people together like they do in Europe and leave the surrounding country side to be fruitful and gorgeous. Kunstler has been an advocate of the New Urbsnism for years. Get rid of the miles and miles of suburban sprawl and paving over all the farm land, building stupid malls all over the place and all that.
But, the UN Agenda, with the takeover of the corporates, means to use the environmental argument as a reason to take over the rural land and the water so that it can all be controlled by them. The food will be produced on corporate farms/factories (using GM seeds, of course) and all the water will be smart-metered, and we will be at their mercy. Family farms and backyard produce gardens and chickens are healthy and good and a viable form of resistance, in my opinion. It's just that it will be a dogfight to see if they can drive us off by outlawing home-grown food or making it too expensive to live ($40,000 septic systems, etc.) a rural lifestyle.

I think the localized food movement is on the vanguard of the struggle.

Anonymous said...

Murph, thks for that, I have some reading to do.

FA, I mean in an enabling sense. Spend your life savings buying a homestead with some land, chances are you are going to need some funding, or at least labour etc. So you get your Permacultrue project going, need to bring in some labour, maybe WOOFers or similar workshare, maybe run PC intro courses or design/compost tea (ACT)/fruit grafting/ etc. workshops or something to become self funding, you have to advertise and network with other "non profit" projects who have been funded via EU grants. This advertising becomes enabling to the wider agenda IMO. Especially if you are attracted to the multiple sources of gov/NGO, or EU in our case, grants/funding.

Our land has already been classified in some UN category, meaning I have to work with gov depts and NGOs intertwined in the wider agenda. I've had them down here, nothing ominous on the face of it, gave me some good advice etc. but when you look at their websites it's obvious it's all intertwined/instigated with UCLEI. They have no "power" yet, but it's clear the policies they have could easily have statutory powers granted, and it looks like thats where it's heading.

This is the thin end of the wedge.

The trick it seems, is to achieve my aims without being an enabler at the same time. Gd

Anonymous said...

e.g. our county/region has 17 full time "climate change facilitators" Gd

Anonymous said...

Murph, ever try "brain tanning"? Every mammals brain has enough volume to tan it's own hide, one of Natures patterns I find a little ironic! Gd :)

murph said...


Yup, know about brain tanning. Haven't tried it yet. Ever seen the tiny brain in a rabbit? lol. Not so sure it is big enough to tan a rabbit hide. I have a small amount of rabbit brain in a jar in the freezer to try it one of these days. Just haven't had the time for that experiment yet. I would make the time if I could buy brains from the grocery store but that is no longer possible.

To make hides useful (soft and pliable) you have to destroy some of the protean bonding in the hide. I do this with Sulfuric acid (battery acid) and lots of salt. This is not the tanning process. Tanning is the process that makes the fibers permanently slide and move against each other instead of forming a bond. When the hide is made soft and pliable, if you get it wet and let it dry it becomes very hard and non pliable and you have to go through the softening process again. When you tan the hide, that will not happen. This can be done chemically as the commercial tanning outfits do. It also changes the color of the hide. A hide that has just been softened is egg shell white. After tanning, it will be some combination of brown/red/yellow, mostly a brown. Because I don't want to use the harsh chemicals, I use the old Indian method, smoke tanning. The smoke contains "tannin" which when done properly will tan the hide and even if it gets wet will stay soft and pliable. ( that is where the word tanning a hide comes from) It can also be done using solutions of bark from a tree but is a very long and involved process. Oil tanning also works, but if the hide is wetted a few times it washes out the oil and it becomes hard again because that does not change the protean bonds in the hide, just makes them slippery while the oil is present.

So, if you soften a hide and make something that will never get wet AND you do not live in a high humidity area, that is sufficient. Otherwise you have to tan the hide.

Hotspringswizard said...

We are thinking/seeing the same things Freeacre regarding your post. You always do such a great job of summing things up. Your title reminds me of my very first post of what ended up as being my SC series, now in the form of my Hotspringswizard blogsite of posted articles:,11578

" The storm is coming " was its title and this is the first thing I wrote:

" The warning bells have been sounding, but most have been asleep, content in thier belief, that the mirage of the good times will never end. A twisted web of denial, and misconceptions, purposeful, and otherwise, has brought us to this place, facing this building storm, just now on the horizen, a grave threat, for all of us, and the lifestyles we have come to know. We are on a pinnacle, and yet, we are on the edge. Become aware, and prepare, for the tidal wave of change that is coming "

On another subject, looking at your post photo Freeacre, just imagine me on my mountain bike, dust mask and googles on looking down, stopped and standing, enveloped in a blinding tan colored thick haze so dense that you could not see more than five feet in front of you. The sounds around me had become muffled by the dust but I could hear art vehicles moving about and peoples voices. Well that was me about midday Tuesday this last week at Burning Man :-)

You will like this, there was a huge art installation ( made of wood ) which looked like large city bank buildings in front, with a sign on one " Bank of Un-America " and on another " Goldman Sucks ". There was a small tent in front of them with a sign " Occupy Buring Man ". The whole thing was blown up and burned last night, which I did not see since I left the event after the burning of The Man the night before. I'll have to catch that one in a video on line :-)

Hotspringswizard said...

.... I am reminded of our insignificance before the universe and the brevity of human life. The stars, thousands visible in the night canopy above me, mock human pretensions of grandeur....

Hotspringswizard said...

New record minimum Arctic ice cover, and there is still more of the melt season to go. Note the various graphs:

Arctic sea ice falls below 4 million square kilometers

....Compared to September conditions in the 1980s and 1990s, this represents a 45% reduction in the area of the Arctic covered by sea ice....

Ice is the telling sign of the direction average global temps are trending.

Hotspringswizard said...

Good points here from Kunstler:

....Mitt Romney and Barack Obama would label Reality a "terrorist movement" if they could and seek to blow it up with predator drones....

The above is funny and true at the same time!

Anonymous said...

I'm join'in The Reality Party - before IT designated as a terrorist organization. This Kinstler rant was a good one.

Hey HSW, I forgot to comment on your pictures -they're pretty awesome! Jackson, Yellowstone, The Grand Tetons -all look fantastic! Burning Man, too. I gotta get up to Yellowstone again. If I ever get a day off from this place, that is. Dang, my brothers want me to come East for a visit. And I dowanna. I dowanna get on a plane. I dowanna be subjected to a TSA feel-up nor sit in a plane for hours especially to and from Mormon HQ. It's like being stuck on an elementary school bus for 5 hours. Kids everywhere screaming, crying
or pooping.

It's easy to keep people from trying to make small talk with me, though. I just order a beer or bloody mary from the flight attendant and suddenly no one wants to know where I'm going or how many children I have. Wish we had some form of high speed rail in Murika... but nooooooo -that's just WAY to 'socialist' to have a nice rail system in FREEDOM(TM) lov'in Murika.



Hotspringswizard said...

Glad you enjoyed the photos Randy :-) I have just started putting up my Burning Man pics from this years gathering. I took a whole lot so it will take quite a while to get all those I want to up for viewing since it takes some time and I just get to it when I can :-)

Speaking of Burning Man, in one of my previous post in this thread I mentioned the huge Wallstreet art installation at this years event, and today I was watching the Lauren Lyster show ( business/economy reports )on RT TV and at the end of her show she offered up as a solution to fraudulent wallstreet was to just do what they did at Burning Man, burn it down!

Here is the link to that show and along with what Lauren said they also showed a breif segment of video of the Burning Man Wallstreet installation burning with cheering sounds in the background from all the burners watching it. It burned just this last weekend, Sunday late or Monday early morning, not sure exactly of the time it went up. I think the message is getting out, the only way to rid ourselves of the fraudsters is to root em out with fire :-)

Look for the video with the title below ( on Sept 5th ):

GATA's Bill Murphy on the JP Morgan Silver Shortage and the next Bullion Bank Run!

I'm going to look for a video of the complete burn of BM wallstreet online since the buildings were very big and that must have been one huge bonfire!

freeacre said...

Welcome back, Wizard! Going to Burning Man must have been a complete 180 from attending the Republican or Democratic conventions! Different worlds...

Different times, even. What I caught of them, if they were TV shows, the Republican convention would have been "The Lawrence Welk Show," and the Dems would have been, "All in the Family." (Got to admit that I like All in the Family a lot better.)

But, here I am in "The Fringe," concerned with issues of corporatism, the rise of the police state, the globalism of the financial system - all of which is not voted on or part of the discussion.

But, fuck me if it looks like these old, white,greedy, patriarchal, fundamentalist, male supremacists want to drag women back to the 50's all over again.

Maybe it's just a better narrative. With all the compelling issues of today, like a stock market based on nano-second trade transactions, almost incomprehensible financial instruments, systemic fraud; a global corporatist agenda that is looting and pillaging the world, and the stresses of developing nations, and the onslaught of climate change, Fukushima, and our deteriorating health, what the fuck are we doing still having to fight for our reproductive rights and things that should have been settled back when Archie Bunker was pissing and moaning about everything?

It's like when it took the Christians 300 years to decide if women actually had souls. GAAAAAAAH!

Anonymous said...

HSW don't mention the storm ;) check ice extent before and after, hint ice loss wasn't caused by temps, it's already refreezing.

some historical perspective if you scroll down.Gd

Anonymous said...

if women had parity in numbers in congress there'd be no debate on reporductive rights. its that simple. case closed!!

can a straight-laced, short-haired, high-flyin investment guy possibly have his head screwed on right and his eys pointed in the right direction when he's a founder of a company with a name like GMO? super contrarian jeremy granthum does...

check out the quarterly newsletter link and grow organic... p

murph said...


You have been putting up links for a while now that seems to point to the concept of global warming as a cyclic event, or at the least an area event that changes over time.

I am not sure of what you are trying to point out for the big picture. Is it that global warming is a non-issue?

I went to that last link you put up and scrolled down through all the hard copy declarations and findings. I have two problems with all of it. In tracking the dates on the publications, I notice that most of them are simply repeats, similar to the AP stories that get circulated in multiple publications with little to no independent conformation. Also, all those stories were in times with no satellite images for conformation, only visual anecdotes and quite limited scientific measurements due to the limitation of the technology of the day and the limited observations due to the difficulty of being there.

These questions are not to discount the findings but only to question accuracy and conclusions.

Financial and political interests, both pro and con warming being an issue of concern heavily weighs the climate debate going on today. Then throw in the agenda 21 stuff and I get big question marks on both sides of the issue.

This issue is an excellent example of creating debate by using experts putting conflicting data out for folks to mull over. If the climate change folks are absolutely correct in their findings and pinning down anthropomorphic causes, it makes no difference. There will not be any significant voluntary changes to reverse it for a variety of reasons. If the nay-sayers are correct and it is strictly cyclical, it also makes no difference since we can’t control it anyway. What does make sense to me is that even if it is cyclical, human contributions to those cycles may cause more extreme swings. Notice I use the word “may”.

My conclusion is that global changes in climate is so complicated that humans are just going to have to learn to live around it, as has been demonstrated by what we think we know about human habitat on this planet for thousands of years. Which is not an excuse for humans to make it worse. What humans ARE doing on a massive scale is disrupting ecologies in a variety of ways, mainly by poisoning it. IMO, this will have far more extended consequences for humans than a cyclic climate change.

One of our local feed stores flat out admitted to me that he has to sell weed free hay and straw to the livestock (principally horse folks) to be able to sell any quantity at all. That is going to cause some really big problems down the road since to be weed free, the fields have to sprayed with really long lived destructive herbicides. And that does not even start to deal with the catastrophe of the mono-cultural GMO farming going on.

Politically, financially, and scientifically we are unable to deal effectively with climate and ecological issues because of the extreme complexity of it all. So far, the financial interests are taking control of the issue. That is going to be a huge catastrophe.

Hotspringswizard said...

GD, the graphs at the previous links I listed cover ice extent data for many decades, and not for the week or so that the storm you referenced occured. Yes Arctic storms do break up ice and cause additional melt, but thats a tunnel vision view of specific circumstances and not the big picture.

And as for Steven Goddard / Real Science, he is another Joe Bastardi character, but even worse. What else can I say if you really give persons like him any creedance:

New Lows: Sea Ice and “Steven Goddard” credibility

....“Steven Goddard” is a pseudonym used by an anonymous climate denialist crank, so incredibly sloppy that he even embarrassed arch climate denier Anthony Watts, as shown in this link, and as I showed in one of last year’s “sea ice wrap-up” videos.

At least Chris Monckton has a medical condition that explains his break with reality. As for this “Goddard” character, well, I have to let you see this headline to believe it. "

And the headline, " Arctic sea ice continues to recover ".

" ruby slippers nonsense about sea ice “recovery” from Joe Bastardi, Anthony Watts, and “Stephen Goddard” crash on the hard rocks of reality "

So why are all of the countries surrounding the Arctic in full gear preparing gigantic resource plundering projects ( oil/gas/etc ) to capatalize on the reality as clearly seen in the trendlines of lesser ice extent, if as Steven Goddard says, the ice extent is recovering? They clearly are not using Steven Goddard as their " climate guide " as to the future predicted reality for whats likely to happen to Arctic ice extent.

Hotspringswizard said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Hotspringswizard said...

Murph, excellent points you make in your September 6, 2012 10:41 AM
post. And in regards to what you suggest in your last paragraph, I have this written at my blog which I think resonates with your view:

....Humanity has created an ever growing tempest of myriad converging difficulties and realistically unsolvable complexities. The architecture of the human mind and its manner of functioning meant we would always go down this increasingly troubled path as a species....

We will be left scrambling to try and survive/adapt to the gigantic failings of it all.

Anonymous said...

But, ah, you forgot the
"doomed" part, Muph.


Hotspringswizard said...

Ramdu, who's Muph :-) Your keyboard must be having some technical difficulties :-)

Anonymous said...

HA! Or maybe I should learn how to type. Or, get someone to proof my rants or.. -wait, Blogger should have a Spell Checker button. Yeah!


rockpicker said...

GD, Murph, Hotsprings, et al; I've been following the climate discussion with interest, and I've noted that no one has mentioned what seems to me to be a perfectly plausible explanation for radical weather behavior, given man's technology and stated goal of "owning the weather."

Wall Street, through its creative use of derivatives, and other 'investment vehicles,' makes more money on crop failures than it does on successful harvests.

A publication produced by none other than the United Nations displays a color-coded map indicating the planned removal of inhabitants from large portions of the central plains and intermountain West, USA, during the next century.

We already know the oil companies have their eyes set on drilling the Arctic, as do the Russians. No argument there.

Wouldn't a good old fashioned drought be the perfect way to kick things off in the right direction for the Powers That Be?

I think it behooves us to connect the dots, and to keep in mind that the 'government' is not here to help us.

Anonymous said...


Something really good..

Bill Moyers interviews Chris Hedges.!


rockpicker said...

Randy; Can't wait to watch that. I'm writing in Hedges for POTUS on an absentee ballot this November.

"They're all psychopaths and they should all be locked up!"

Anonymous said...


IMO and it is IMO, that the greatest effect on climate is caused by CME's and other disturbances in our Sun caused by the spoke of our galaxy swinging past the Sun's position in the heavens. But as Murph says, it is a complicated issue and if you get several effects occurring simultaneously then it really is anybody's guess what will happen. It is like graphing a four component eutectic system. Mercedes have an independent fully floating link on some of its front suspensions and their own design engineers say they can't predict which way it will move when it hits a bump in the road, only that it will be self correcting. And that is only a car suspension. Climate is infinitely more complicated. China is doing its bit to help the situation by using state subsidies to flood the West with cheap solar panels. Europe, instead of welcoming the initiative to help the climate situation, is threatening China with tariff bombs. Yeh, who are the climate terrorists here?

“I'm join'in The Reality Party - before IT designated as a terrorist organization.” I think I have said before, reality is for those who can't cope with drugs.

If there is a God then I hope it is a woman. Mind you, if this Christian God is a woman she has probably has Bette Davis as a roll model.

rockpicker said...

And Betty Davis eyes?

Anonymous said...

That's a really good idea, RP. I was going to write-in Jack Knauf or Hung Whell.


Hotspringswizard said...

Personally Freeacre I'd rather have women running things in this world than men. I think we would see a lot more fairness and compassion in societal interactions, and between nations :-)

freeacre said...

Yeah, Rockpicker, I used to think that too - until Condoleeza Rice and Hillary came along. What a disappointment.

Hotspringswizard said...

Randy, the video link you gave, more great stuff from Chris Hedges! And RP regarding your Lauren Lyster video, I try and catch her on RT whenever I can, she has an excellent show with very helpful info.

Here is a recent article from Paul Craig Roberts who's insights I always appreciate:

The Message From Both Parties Is That Americans Are Disposable

....Washington’s moral force no longer exists. All that exists is financial and military force, and both will fail as they are insufficient....

Anonymous said...


Condi was a weak shit that was out of her league against the continual onslaughts of Dick and Don. She was in fear of being thrown out of the gang, that's why it was easy to make her go along with policies such as PNAC for example. Hilary on the other hand is trying to out Dick, Dick and makes no attempt to hide her nastiness, such as laughing when Gaddafi took a knife up the ass or making public addresses telling foreign leaders what is going to happen to them if they don't toe her line.

Anonymous said...

realistically unsolvable complexities.

maybe not but kitchen sink realism, aka, social keeps banging away at it. and thats a good thing!

on condi/hillary... u got that right sats! ... p

Hotspringswizard said...

When I posted that I figure things would be better with women running things, I definitely did not have Hillary or Condi in mind as the examples I was thinking of as the positive aspects of the general female mindset :-) What a couple of monster those two are!

Regarding " realistically unsolvable complexities ", this speaks to the idea that humans through the actions derived from the functioning of their combined billions of minds create myriad dire circumstances/problems that those same minds cannot possibly repair/fix because of the inherent natural tendicies of their mental architecture.

For example, the oceans fish stocks continue to get depleted not because humans are strictly physically not able to stop taking fish out of the seas, but the human mind is also a part of their physical being and the definite nature of its workings will mean that the reality will be an ongoing human decimation of ocean fish stocks, further and further down the food chain. When the bigger fish are all gone we will eat the next thing smaller, on and on.

Hotspringswizard said...

More excellent insight from PCR:

The Republicans Cross The Rubicon

....Two of Romney’s right-wing neoconservative advisors said that Romney as president would “confront Moscow on its poor record on democracy, human rights, and the rule of law.” The western media will not comment on the irony of these propagandistic allegations against Russia issuing from the US, the country that has destroyed habeas corpus and due process protections of the accused, tortured detainees in violation of the Geneva Conventions and its own statutory law, kidnaps, tortures, and assassinates foreign nationals as well as its own citizens, supports terrorism against Libya, Syria, Iran, and Russia, runs roughshod over international law, never submitting to law itself but using law as a weapon against governments that it has demonized, while it carries on military operations against seven Muslim countries without a declaration of war....

.... Putin remarked, Washington is guilty of the crimes of which it accuses others, but Washington permits all things to “the indispensable nation.”....

Meanwhile Putin was greeting various world leaders yesterday to the APEC meeting being held in Russia this year, a sure sign of the growing powers of those people's/powers in the world who are forming cooperative arrangments that will counteract and further dilute US hegenomy and influence. But the worry of course is, what actions will the waning US empire unfold as it struggles to try and control world events?

rockpicker said...

Okay, how's about Catherine Austin Fits and Elizabeth Warren for pres and vice?

rockpicker said...

Hotsprings; I would guess it has not slipped past you that some interesting twists have occurred recently that I have yet to hear discussed in the fringe media.

One point was that Obama reportedly told the Israelis that if they attack Iran, they are on their own. Expect no help from US.

Meanwhile, Putin has pulled all the Russian ships out of Tartus, and has supposedly turned his back on Iran.

These two positions would seem to indicate Barry and Vlad have struck some sort of deal the rest of us are not privy to.

Why would Obama risk offending American jewish support just before the election, unless he's planning to throw it?

rockpicker said...

"realistically unsolvable complexities"

Someone refresh my addled memory. Is this a phrase from Chris Hedges or Paul Roberts?

Randy, thanks for that link to Bill Moyers' interview with Hedges. Nice piece of journalism. Film footage was spectacular.

SATS; I agree with your intuition that the sun and the greater Universe probably is the root cause of our increasing global weather and seismic abnormalities, but, as Rahm famously stated, "You never want to waste a crisis." And, if you've got the technology to amplify what Nature provides, well, why wait? The Good Lord helps them what helps themselves, eh?

Anonymous said...


Yes, we may not be privy to what Val and Barry are dialoging about.
Just like another time in recent history:

Had president Kennedy not had a change of heart, and listened to the crazies in the pentagon, CIA and other agencies, I do not believe we would be here today.
I was there with the invasion force to attack Cuba, but it was called off at the last moment.

Thanks to two sensible men, Kennedy and Khrushchev!


Anonymous said...

I think the interview with Karl Marlantes by Bill Moyers is very good, sad and revealing.

Like Marlantes says about the solider or marine who pulls the trigger, "He did it". The long line of EVERYONE involved DID IT!!! We all, every last one of us DID IT!!! If you pay taxes you DID IT. If you work in a factory, office or computer company, you DID IT!!!

Now wiggle out of this one!


Hotspringswizard said...

RP, look back to my September 6, 2012 1:59 PM post in reference to your question about the phrase
" realistically unsolvable complexities ".

I had read about the Obama/Isreal/your own your own info. The US has deamonized and talked up the attack possiblilites on Iran as much as Isreal, so my guess, its just a ploy and purposeful release meant to mis-direct attention, but if Isreal does attack Iran, I highly doubt that the US would not know about the move in advance and would be involved quickly after the fact in the military engagement, at one level or another.

And as far as the idea that Russia/Putin would turn his back on Iran, the US has been proceeding with the game plan as stated of nuetralizing various countries in MENA like dominos towards the goal of hemming in and containing Russia, and China.

You see on RT ( Russin TV ) how much the US and European involvement in trying to do what they did in Libya to Syria is consistently talked about, argued against and exposed. To me Putin doesn't want Syria to go the way of Libya, and Iran going that way would be even more detrimental to Russian interest so seems to me that move of ships has to do with something else.

Hotspringswizard said...

Another very important aspect of Arctic ice decline. Note the graph with ice volume measurements since 1979:

Death Spiral Watch: Experts warn ‘Near Ice-Free Arctic In Summer’ in a decade if volume trends continue

The sharp drop in Arctic sea ice area has been matched by a harder-to-see — but equally sharp — drop in sea ice thickness. The combined result has been a collapse in total sea ice volume....

What additional weather chaos will be unleashed by and ice free Artic region?

murph said...


I have been coming across articles periodically concerning the consequences of Arctic sea ice decrease. It is another attempt to understand and predict how the climate will change under that continuing scenario. I think we have to ask a couple of questions about this. First off, to this point, in the last 50+ years how accurate has the predictions been for climate change on the macro and micro time lines? Second, even if they are considered accurate, what are we as individuals or as nations going to do about it, either in changing the outcome or adapting to it? The readers of this blog are scattered all over the globe. Should we as individuals or families be picking up and moving to a different location with a higher chance of viability? Should governments begin to prepare their populations for this?

It sure seems obvious that governments are not going to be preparing their populations at all. I reckon it's going to be up to individuals and families to prepare as best they can on whatever information they can come up with.

Historically, most individuals and most governments do not prepare for projections into the future well at all. We wait until something happens and then react to it. The "preppers" being a very small minority as an exception. The Christian fundies and extreme right are waiting for a heavenly intervention. The rest simply don't believe anything too horrible will happen, it simply can't happen to us.

Let's look at a specific. Violent storms, hurricanes etc, have been increasing in in the Gulf region. Every time one of these storms devastate an area, folks collect some insurance and then rebuild right back in the same area. Won't happen twice will it? And, if it does, the insurance company or the government can be counted on to haul our ass out of the hole.

We continue to build dangerous nuclear reactors on known fault lines. We continue to do heavy irrigation for crops in areas known for droughts and low rainfall, thus radically depleting aquifers, and doing all this on marginal soil.

Planning ahead by a generation or two simply is not included in our thinking. Consequences be damned.

In the end, we have all contributed to this in one way or another. When the price comes due, we ain't gonna like it.

rockpicker said...

From Joni Mitchell's "The Fiddle and the Drum"...

...And so once again
Oh, America my friend
And so once again
You are fighting us all
And when we ask you why
You raise your sticks and cry and we fall
Oh, my friend
How did you come
To trade the fiddle for the drum

You say we have turned
Like the enemies you've earned
But we can remember
All the good things you are
And so we ask you please
Can we help you find the peace and the star
Oh my friend
We have all come
To fear the beating of your drum

Anonymous said...

bexar my friend, we ride the same trail, there is no room to wiggle when the events snuggle up and sing the blues over what ''should be'' , there ain't none. it is what it is and god damn if i can't fix it i damn sure won't make it worse.
that said i wince every time i stick a hose in my old beat up toyota just to get it a few more miles down the road doing things i can't do on foot.
will trade it for a horse one day i imagine if we last that long or horses last that long, read a report by chris hodges one time where the government killed 800 mother fucking horses just to even the odds for the gov.. or some such shit;.

i don't know about you guys but the current and past events of insanity by the two leggeds has had if one can believe it an effect of healing the inner gizzard that apparently needed the outer damage to the mother to bring forth the inner that made it that way, and as a result this one has he thinks learned a much needed lesson in of all things, humility. the understanding that the people really are one and that is final.
doesn't mean i will kiss the bitch that wants me on a stick.
rather to allow some things to work itself out and step in when its necessary, and necessary seems a trap in its own right if ya know what i mean.

its windy here in hot springs, the forest fires are still burning somewhere and the air is blue against the mountains to the west , chemtrails have lessened
and the smell of woodsmoke and the obvious change in the season makes for somehow a feeling of maybe it might somehow be sign of the long awaited ......

peace and bunch of love



Anonymous said...

every once in awhile someone here will say something about maybe hightailing it to south of the border and more often than not ecuador is mentioned as a destination.

who knows, maybe some day it will come the that. in which case the following story should be on the radar. that reason aside, its important to know if for no other reason but to be savvy on international politics and economics. the pov on the positive influence of keynesian econ theory is on the money, or is skewed at best, or totally mis-informed at worst, depending on your pov on the subject. right or wrong i doubt it changes the basic gist of the story. some interesting chatter in the comments toward that pissin contest...

interview with ecuador president correa on asylum for assange...

the plot thickens... p

freeacre said...

Thanks for the reference to Catherine Austin Fitts and Elizabeth Warren. I needed that. Remember Barbara Jordan and Shirley Chisholm? They were good, too.

Bexar - Sure glad you didn't deploy into Cuba! Damn. It would be great is Putin and Obama were both "cooler heads" like Kennedy and Khrushchev. Of course, look what happened to them...

For you, Hot Springs, and planet watchers:
If the link doesn't work, it's called "weather girl goes rouge" on Youtube.

Anonymous said...

Your last line is exactly what I was referring to in my last comment.

FA- we did put the marines into Gitmo to relieve the ones there, who were out in foxholes around the base.

MF- yep, not a thing I can do to change things. Sometimes I wish we could go back to real horse power, wagons, sailing vessels. It makes me cring too when I put fuel I know people have died over just so we can drive.
So, I just use as little as I can, drive less, bike more, but there are things I can't haul on a bike.
I am applying wood chips to my gardens, like I saw in the online video "Back to Eden Film". That fellow lives about two hours away from me.

No easy answers for sure.


Hotspringswizard said...

Murph, I agree with the various points you made in your
September 9, 2012 9:20 AM, post. One thing to note, all people are not equal for sure when it comes to contributions to societies problems. Say for example the poor around the world who live on 1-2 dollars a day sure don't contribute the way most in the US ( or other afluent countries ) do with their very comfy lifestyles of abundance.

And then theres the truth that those contributing less are getting in general the lion's share of the pain and troubles as the mass consumers of all types reap the benifits even as they themselves are the biggest creators of the problems.

As far as what people should do about climate change and its repercussions, there are so many variables and particular personal circumstances, combined with the fact the no one knows beyond assumptions just how the weather will alter in given areas because of the unpredictablility factors of climate, that offering people accurate advice about where they should go is something that I think will be most often fraught with consistent errors.

Freeacre, Survival Acres has a link for that video about the Weather girl going rogue, and I found it amusing of course :-)

Anonymous said...

Murph: Global warming is a non issue IMO (except for political control), it is cyclical, now the PDO & NAO, and soon the AO (ocean cycles) have turned -ive because they are driven by Sun cycles (which are driven by planetary/universe position) , the issue will soon be global cooling, shrinking of the growing zones. Co2 has almost no effect after 200ppm. Climate change is an issue, yes, but not for the reasons pro-ported by the globalists, there is zero solution, there is nothing “man” can do about it. It is a handy diversion from the serious ecological damage “man” is doing/has done, something we can do something about, and in short time if there were not the diversion of “CAGW” used by globalists to further their agenda, e.g. WWF “protecting” inaccessible parts of the Amazon while selling logging rights to the accessible parts to plant palm oil.
Why did the global elites build their doomsteads in the tropics? Remember global cooling on the Bilderberg agenda? Coincidence?

HSW: you talk of “many decades” and use “record extent” language derived from satellite data, which only started in 1979, data controlled and manipulated by the globalists (it's not the same satellite from 1979, not the same sensors, not the same algorithms etc. it has the potential to be manipulated) You also attack the venue and blog owner, who did the newspaper search is rather irrelevant IMO. Here's a thought, Viking agriculture on Greenland (funny name for an iced up continent eh) maybe they were all simply deniers ;¬)

There is a map from thousands of yrs ago on animal skin (Piri Reis Map) notes on the map say it was collated from Sumerian maps in the Imperial Library of Constantinople. It shows, accurately, the coasts of Antarctica, something they could only check with satellite telemetry in modern times. History is written by the victors, our human history is BS, as is current history in the making. Who mapped Antarctica over 6k yrs ago, and why was it not underwater with all the ice melted? Why did plants evolve to make best use of Co2 at around 1500ppm? What was the real Co2 level before “they” told us what it was?

Keep searching for the truth and it will hit you upside the head, but first you must reject ALL history, including current history in the making, and I do mean reject EVERYTHING you think you knew.

RP: bang on, there is more profit in food shortage than abundance, period.

Murph 2: you said “Let's look at a specific. Violent storms, hurricanes etc, have been increasing in in the Gulf region” have you looked at the global evidence? My research tells me these things have been at a historic low, because they are caused by the temp differential between the tropics and poles, they will increase for sure, but that's because of global cooling!

Historically, warm is good for human living conditions, cold is not so good IMO.

I suspect, if we were all sat round a real campfire unobstructed by the limitations imposed by this virtual warmth, we would agree on much more than we disagree, though it would be a very long night, maybe one day ;¬)Gd

Anonymous said...

Ahhh, but there are a lot of things you can haul one of these bikes, Bexar -

I have one of these in yellow (easier to see) that I use each weekends to haul things/grocery shop and my wife uses it during the week to haul all of her art stuff (paintings, supplies, etc.).

It's great!


Anonymous said...

this "global warming" doesn't seem to be global ;¬) see

Mass Balance of the Antarctic Ice Sheet 1992-2008 from ERS and ICESat: Gains exceed losses
- Presented by Jay Zwally, NASA Goddard, USA

The Arctic seems to have a c.10yr lag response, since the PDO went -ive in 06 it'll probably continue the current trend until around 2016. In the meantime the jetstream will control NH weather, kinked by mechanisms controlled by the Sun et al expect lots more blocking action, periods of extreme cold harsh winter interspersed by milder than usual periods. Gd


Anonymous said...

I have one of these and do the grocery/other shops deity it. Pulls very nice too.

Can't haul enough wood chips, fire wood etc., though.


Anonymous said...

with it

Anonymous said...


GD from my previous comments on this blog you know we see global warming and climate change the same way. I also think the period from which satellite data has been available, notwithstanding what you said, is too short a sample to predict long term trends. Okay it's all we have got and you have to start somewhere but geological time is geological time and what we have is not enough to extrapolate a long term picture. Incidentally, I expect you already know this but the IPCC is supposed to comprise 2000 eminent scientists. The couldn't find 2000 scientists of any description to agree on anything so they first padded the numbers with researchers and when they ran out of these they invited secretaries to take part.

I was walking through town (Antwerp) the other day and one of these enthusiastic youths tried to sign me up for the WWF. I mean saving the animals is a petty noble thing to do, huh. I asked him if he knew that the WWF was a front organisation for the “1001 Club”. “What's that” came the reply. I said “It will have more impact if you look it up yourself however the only thing I will tell you is that it is not very nice and works against the principles of the WWF”. And with that I cleared off leaving him looking nonplussed.

For those who have not come across it, it is here:

On the amusing topic of why an ice covered near continent should be called Greenland, the Vikings first discovered a large snow covered island in the middle of the North Atlantic and decided to call it Iceland. They then went back to Denmark and tried to find enough people to colonize it but didn't get many takers, so the next time they went a but further and found an even bigger island covered with ice and being quick learners, they decided to call it Greenland.

Randy, your link didn't work.

Anonymous said...

Really? Rats!

I just did copy/paste -since I am a lousy at correcting my typing and there's no spell-chcker thingy.

If this

doesn't work, just Google Madsen bikes and you'll find it. I haul a ton of stuff with it each weekend. Ok, not a ton, but a butt-load of groceries, dirt, pots, plants and I am the main attraction at the local farmers market when I show up. The parking lot is packed each Saturday morning with gazillions of people trying to find a parking spot. Not me, man. I ride on through the masses in their cars, park it, lock it with it's own, attacked lock and load up on one watermellon, one honeydew mellon, a dozen sweet corn, big bag of nectareens, big bag of pears and another bag of asian pears. After that, I went down the street to the state controlled liquor store and bought two six packs of beer and two bottles of wine (my weekly beer suppy run).

It rides well, even with a load and I get my exercise. I highly recommend this bike.


Anonymous said...

SATS the Greenland thing made my day, too funny. Richard North did a pretty good expose on the WWF, I was going to post a link but the EUreferendum site is unavailable right now Gd

murph said...


From your comment to me on the 10th.

I most emphatically agree that the global warming stuff is being utilized politically. I am supposing that you are familiar with the agenda 21 issue?

I further agree with you that with very few exceptions, what we were taught about human history is probably not true. So, those of us curious enough to pursue research into history have a problem. How to determine what is true.

Lets take one little example out of a mountain of examples; the formation of the U.S. and it's constitution. Contrary to most of what I learned during my school years and the history books, what we have been told about our "founding fathers" is mostly B.S. from a philosophical point and from a pragmatic point according to research and scholars who write about this. They seem to present some pretty compelling evidence for this.

The point being that there is so much information out there that is contradictory and authored by "scientists" and "Scholars" and just plain old propaganda press that a non involved person simply has to pick and chose what information they chose to believe is valid. Now, what is the basis for this decision? With very few exceptions, it is always a bias, a bias that reinforces what we already suspect is true.

I still insist that true objective research and conclusions is so rare as to be unnoticed by the vast majority of folks living on this planet. All I can do as an individual is to keep looking and hope I actually stumble upon something that truly leads to the truth.

I went to the web site you put up

I found that lecture obscure and literally could make no sense of it and could detect no conclusions in it. The main thrust of the lecture was an explanation of computer models and how they worked on the one issue of Antarctic ice thickness. Now I will admit that I have limited experience with computer modeling, but what experience I have had at various times indicates to me it is simply another means of lying with statistics if there is an agenda to be propagated. The bottom line for computer modeling is the insertion of statistical data into a program that has built in bias from the start, and all this to project events and trends into the future. The really hideous part of this is that they are used to formulate public polity. Personally, I have little justification for assuming the validity of those projections most of the time.

One very big problem with computer models is that they are very seldom correct in the projections, particularly for long range projections. They seem to work a high percentage of times for very short range projections. There is a reason for this. In long range projections it is assumed a limited amount of variables which is so seldom true that it becomes ridiculous. Anyone with any knowledge of complex systems and their analysis knows that interaction of outside variables simply cannot be accounted for. This problem with complex systems is simply not acknowledged in computer models and cannot be accounted for and thus fostering a lot of suspicions about the conclusions.

I have no real good answers for how to deal with these anomalies, I truly wish I did.

Hotspringswizard said...

GD, Regarding your Jay Zwally/Nasa video, to bad your go to site Real Science is dumping on the guy as offering up miss info about climate change issues. Can't believe that guy now can I :-)

Lets see, an Antarctica map from 6000 years ago, thats a historical document. On that I guess I'll just take your advice,

" reject ALL history "

Of course your phrase, and POV above makes just as much sense as a person I know who actually told me that everything on the internet is false.

And related to this purported map you make this statement " why was it not underwater with all the ice melted ". Is it written somewhere on the map that all of the ice of Antarctica was melted? Oh, there I go again, thats a bit of history, of which All should be rejected, all of it!

I'll be waiting for the global cooling you say is coming soon, on a day when its announced that this summer in the US was the third hottest on record.

And the massive drought this year has been purposely caused as a money making adventure of the elites, clearly that is what you are implying. You actually believe that?

I could go on and on but clearly it would get me no where.

I'll be remembering you sage advice,

" reject EVERYTHING you think you knew "

Its like another phrase I've seen before some people cite which is just as non sensical,

" there is nothing to know "

I guess we all should reject EVERYTHING we thought we knew, and just give merit to what you think you know :-)

Anonymous said...

Murph: the guys at NASA did their jon then, they took actual satellite measurements showing the Antarctic gained mass "Mass Balance of the Antarctic Ice Sheet 1992-2008 from ERS and ICESat: Gains exceed losses" and tried to explain how their useless models still work in the face of that contradicting empirical evidence, and failed it seems, but clearly did manage to muddy the water, which I think was the whole point of the video ;)

try <a href=">this post on SST anomaly update</a> from Bob Tisdale. I'll cut to the conundrum: "The Sea Surface Temperature anomalies of the East Pacific Ocean, or approximately 33% of the surface area of the global oceans, have decreased slightly since 1982 based on the linear trend. And between upward shifts, the Sea Surface Temperature anomalies for the rest of the world (67% of the global ocean surface area) remain relatively flat. As discussed in my book, anthropogenic forcings are said to be responsible for most of the rise in global surface temperatures over this period, but the Sea Surface Temperature anomaly graphs of those two areas prompt a two-part question: Since 1982, what anthropogenic global warming processes would overlook the Sea Surface Temperatures of 33% of the global oceans and have an impact on the other 67% but only during the months of the significant El Niño events of 1986/87/88, 1997/98 and 2009/10?"

Simply put: Ocean cycles dominate the global temp/climate. Co2 cannot effect ocean heat content. (e.g. try heating a bath of water with a hair dryer compared to an IR cooking stove) These natural cycles are correlated to the Sun/planetary cycles see [2] for the correlations. look at the cycle anomalies graph.

HSW whatever, I won't waste my time or yours responding to that, you see what you want to see, how come Murph got my gist.



Anonymous said...

HSW was the 2012 US summer hotter than the 1930s, I mean before they adjusted history

enquiring mind want to know ;) Gd

Anonymous said...


Hmm! HSW, GD everyone including me, in our effort to discover the “truth” we all, to some extent or other, cherry pick the information which reinforces our own prejudices and world view. The alternative is to simply give up and believe nothing or sit back and wait for God to put the fix in. As Murph says (paraphrased), the method of discovering the actuality of the truth is no easy matter. I won't say unique but one very rare aspect of this blog is that contributors here recognise this and understand that someone else might be looking at a different facet of the same picture or seeing it from a different perspective. We can respect one anothers views whilst recognising that our own truth might not be completely correct. We can accommodate others views without the need to slag anyone off and maybe use anothers point of view to form a more complete or whole picture, whilst maintaining our own stance. Sometimes we think another has just got it completely wrong. There have been occasions in my life, not too many, where I have been shown that what I understood to be true was in fact complete bollox and I have changed my understanding of something. Fortunately these moments have become fewer as I have got older.

Was that diplomatic or what? I do think that this is largely true though.

Randy, the expression you were striving for was “Shit Bag Rats”. This adds a greater depth of feeling especially if it is delivered with conviction. :-) :-)

Found the photos of the bikes and they are pretty cool. Because the load is positioned between the wheels the bike will feel lighter to ride than if the load was say, hung in a basket from the handlebars.

Hotspringswizard said...

GD, the gas CO2 acts as a warming blanket across the the whole surface of the earth, holding in additional heat, causing the atmosphere to be warmer, which has been clearly shown in the records, and this gargantuan amounts of atmospheric heat is transfered into the oceans, and your comparing that gigantic process to a Blowdryer's affect on a bath tub?

On another subject, on the Weather Channel tonight at 7PM, and tomorrow at the same time there is a two part special discussing the drastic loss of Arctic ice extent and volume.

SATS, Regarding people's world views/opinions, all things are not equal and all POV's do not hold the same merit. But on the other hand if one holds the view that there is no way to sensibly discern the truth like described this way " there is nothing to know ", or as in equalizing phrases like " we all cherry pick the data ", then the implication is that one person's POV is no more valid than the next. And if the later is actually true, then there is no sense trying to figure out anything, because it doesn't make any differance, it doesn't matter what you think as compared to another peron because everything one thinks is accurate, and true.

So if the US PTB say the twin towers fell because of fire, that makes just as much sense, is just as valid as those who say they were taken down by controlled demolitions. Maybe in an Alice In Wonderland world both could be true at the same time. Is that what we are living in? Seeing the POV of some folks, you would think so.

Now Sats the above I cite not as some disparragement of you, but only to point out that if we are here trying to figure things out and discuss the merits of various points, there has to be the underlying premis that all things are not equal when it comes to desribing the truth of things.

Now one could also diverge into all the myriad POV's on just what is the nature of existance, philosphic/metaphysical musings along with all of the implied directions that can lead, but if that leaves you saying/interpreting that all things are equal, then that would make it true that there would be no point whatsoever to trying to discern or dicuss the merits of any points of view. The fact is, people discuss/argue over POV's clearly because the people involved figure all things are not equal.

Hotspringswizard said...

Chriss Hedges was interviewed in the later segment of today's Democracy Now show ( aired 9-11 ) on Free Speech TV. In it he discussed the very serious issue of the 40% Artic Sea ice lost in recent decades, as well as various points on humanities race to the bottom regarding its onslaught on world resources and ecosystems.

Hotspringswizard said...

And regarding Antarctica ice:

Is Antarctica losing or gaining ice?

....when it comes to Antarctic ice, sea ice is not the most important thing to measure. In Antarctica, the most important ice mass is the land ice sitting on the West Antarctic Ice Sheet and the East Antarctic Ice Sheet....

....multiple different types of measurement techniques (explained here) all show the same thing, Antarctica is losing land ice as a whole, and these losses are accelerating quickly....

Anonymous said...

HSW so you dispute the most recent NASA findings by quoting out of date skeptical science articles?

Re truth: I repeat the first part of the sentence from which the latter part was pounce on "Keep searching for the truth and it will hit you upside the head" I should have said eventually hit you upside the head.

we take in evidence from as many sources as possible, eventually we can disregard some of it, even most of it, when more evidence comes in, it takes time, but eventually lots of possibilities get narrowed down to the most likely; as in the "competence cycle" we start off unconsciously incompetent (we don't know that we don't know) we find a new line of evidence and we become consciously incompetent (we know that we don't know) with more research and practice we become consciously competent (we know that we know, but we are still unaccustomed to the evidence/practice) eventually with more research and practice we become unconsciously competent (we just know without thinking about it).

everyone is at a different stage in the competency cycle, on myriad subjects, e.g. a conversation between someone who spent a lifetime researching UFO's talking to someone who has never seen any evidence for such, who has only seen derogatory statements about UFO researchers will not be a productive conversation, unless both parties recognise the others stage in the competence cycle and make allowances for such.

in this thread I feel I am trying to make allowances, I feel Murph and SATS also made some allowances, others don't even appear to recognise their lack of competence. Diplomatic? ;¬)


Anonymous said...

HSW you seem to think atmospheric "heat" is transferred to the oceans, and not the other way around, I suggest you get a handle on heat capacity of air compared to water.

This simple graphic may help illustrate my point Gd

Anonymous said...

HSW you seem to think it is air temperature melting ice in the Arctic, I may be wrong, maybe you still think Co2 "warms the air which warms the ocean" either way this graphic of the weekly sea surface temperature anomaly should illustrate my point

Global weekly sea surface temperature anomaly map

notice where all the warm anomalies are? do you think ocean circulations could possibly have something to do with it, or is all the Co2 sat over the NH congregating around the Arctic?

enquiring minds want to know ;) Gd

Anonymous said...


Yes, truth is an elusive beast. Sometimes it is harder to find the truth than find the lady. When we think we know where it is, it turns out to be somewhere else. For me, Gd's competency cycle expresses it better than I could have. Picking this subject up is like trying to grab hold of a jelly but let's have a go. Sometimes the truth is a matter of simple alternatives. Did William Tell shoot an apple off his sons head using a bow and arrow? Well he did or he didn't and the truth is one of these. I don't know which it is and I don't have an opinion about it. The absolute truth has no alternatives and is absolutely what happened or what is. Most of the time we don't have enough information to determine the absolute truth but can make an informed opinion as a halfway house to determining the truth. Is it true that representative democracy the best way of organising society. Some people accept that this is true because representatives can be chosen and are accountable to those that choose them to act in their best interests. For others it is not true because they believe that once in office, representatives can be influenced by personal gain, not to act in the best interests of the represented. Only one of these alternatives is absolutely true. If it is not true then a different system must be shown to be better. Is it true that the NWO Globalist agenda is correct thinking? Again it is or it isn't or we have to modify the question to ask correct thinking for whom. Then we can have an option where both answers are true, the pro argument for one group and the anti argument for another. The answer we give to this can be influenced by our personal prejudices or our particular world view. Sometimes we find ourselves in the middle of Gd's competency cycle where we don't have enough information to determine the absolute truth and then we resort to language constructs such as “ Based on the balance of probabilities, the likelihood is that....”. For instance, did a Boeing 757 crash through the Pentagon walls on 9/11? Most people say no, because the hole in the wall was too small; there was no debris on the lawn when we should have expected a tailplane at least; the independent camera footage was confiscated and denied to the public and especialy after Rummy had a mental break and admitted that the Pennsylvania plane had been shot down. There is however conflicting evidence and according to Joel Van der Rijden there is no alternative to a Boeing 757 crashing into the Pentagon.

What is true? There can only be one truth and that is why I previously said that how you interpret the available information until such times that the absolute truth can be determined depends on your own particular prejudices and your own world view.

freeacre said...

I guess I'd be in the group that knows that they don't know, but I am somewhat more concerned with the quality of the sea water. I think the Sun and underwater volcanoes are warming up the oceans as well as greenhouse gases. And the cooling info is compelling, too. But, whatever... the radioactive wastes, plastic, and god-forsaken chemicals that we dump into it are killing the corals, plankton, and fish. Since the world is significantly dependent on the food generated from the seas, this problem is huge. Combined with the devastating pollution of the air, clearing of the forests, and ruining the topsoil and aqua-firs - well, I don't know what to say. We need to be united in our efforts to save life on Earth, and not fight amongst ourselves to the point of paralyzing each other.

Anonymous said...


You are right Freeacre. We as a species like to consume so long as we are kept blissfully unaware of what is going on at the other end of the digestive tract. All that stuff about Atlantis reappearing in plastic bottles and so on. We are all turning oil into carbon dioxide and it is not helping. I wish I knew how we could reduce it. We should all keep in mind however that CO2 is one of the milder effect greenhouse gasses. That is not meant as a sideways swipe at HSW. In a list of possible greenhouse gasses CO2 is not up there with the really big boys although it is argued that mildness in effect is overcompensated for by quantity. I think the world has been sold a bill of goods so far as CO2 is concerned. I think the intent was that we unquestioningly accepted the assumption and went ahead into carbon trading, until the apple cart was upset in Copenhagen. We really should be more concerned by the release of methane from the thawing tundra. Whether this has been triggered by CO2 is a moot point. Even with the vast amount of CO2 we are pouring out, I don't think there is enough calorific value in its heat storing capacity to account for all that is claimed of it. There is something else going on as well, like for example the underwater volcanoes you speak of. No matter how much we scream and shout about it, mankind is in the age of oil and sadly, that isn't going to change until it changes us.

So far as climate is concerned, in fairly recent geological time we have had two ice ages that were nothing to do with us and the world got better. There were times when vast swaths of the earth were covered in volcanic ash. Maybe that is what did it for the dinosaurs, I don't know, but the world gradually recovered. It is important that scientists continue to monitor global changes but they also should have the ability to distinguish genuine triggers from normal short term cycling effects or baseline jitter. An analogy of what I mean by this is to compare the earth to the human body. Ask anybody what normal body temperature is and they will probably tell you it is 98.6°F. However for the majority of us who sleep at night and are active during the day, the body temperature can and usually does vary by +/- 0.9°F during any 24 hour cycle. Usually it is lowest 97.7°F at about 4.30 hr in the morning and 99.5°F at 1900 hr in the evening. Just like the body the earth has its normal cycles too but there are more interacting effects and they tend to be a bit more complicated.

Radioactive contamination is a new worrying phenomenon and that is definitely down to us. Two of Belgium's five nuclear reactors are to be decommissioned by 2015 and the other three will not be replaced when their projected lifetime runs out. We will probably buy electricity in from Germany or Uncle Vlad and pass the buck and the toxic waste somewhere else, just so long as we don't have to be aware of it.

rockpicker said...

True or not true? Got me. But we know who would like to manipulate the weather to their advantage, because they said they intend to do just that...,7340,L-4280188,00.html

Lucretia Heart said...


~ Its Lucretia-- I know, long time no comment. I think one reason I prefer Livejournal to Blogger is that I don't have to deal with reading everyone's else comments along with any follow up to my own comments when my time is scrunched. And I totally fell behind in checking your blog somewhere in this last busy period.

Just wanted to say-- I LOVE 'Sons of Anarchy' as well. I don't think all the characters are sociopaths-- the weird part is how many of them are NOT. But certainly many are deeply flawed and/or very deeply entrenched in a way of life that requires going along with the group, even when the group is demanding crazy or violent behavior.

I think my fascination with it is that I can see groups like this popping up as we face Decline. As a matter of fact, I was just beginning research into outlaw biker gangs (sorry, CLUBS!) when this show came on the air and gave my studies an extra, fictional, charge.

I have actually come to know a little about the outlaw bikers of Oregon, the Gypsy Jokers. I even know a few members and have had some very interesting conversations-- especially using the show as a launching point. Things are naturally not as chaotic and dire as the fictional show portrays, but there are little truths within that are planted throughout, which is why BIKERS are just as obsessive as viewers as any of us 'civilians'.

The reason I can see the appeal of such a group (as opposed to the more limited and exploitative urban street gang) is that the Outlaw Biker social rules mean not only absolute loyalty to the group-- but also require, for instance, being GOOD neighbors and forging relationships with civilians that are mutually beneficial. There is great protection to be found in such a group if you are living in dangerous times. I think versions of this will emerge as petroleum gets more expensive (perhaps on horses instead of motorcycles?)

And yes, I think you hit it on the target when you said that when the very institutions of decency that uphold society FAIL us, more of us may begin to evaluate what we thought of as decent very differently.

... "interesting times" indeed!